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[Sundog]

That's correct. The old default value for that setting used to be 2.0, so that should be a good place to start. You might also want to increase "bonusChanceForCivilianShips." The reason I disabled trait gains for civilian ships was because so many people were complaining about the 50% chance to get negative traits.

[lyravega]

That's correct. The old default value for that setting used to be 2.0, so that should be a good place to start. You might also want to increase "bonusChanceForCivilianShips." The reason I disabled trait gains for civilian ships was because so many people were complaining about the 50% chance to get negative traits.

If it bothers me, I guess I'll alter the mentioned .csv files for the logistic ships, and make logistics related stuff only appear on logistic ships so it'll still add some flavour =) Thank you for the reply!

By the way, I'm running with a small fleet, and small ship losses happen all the time, sometimes I also lose my capital but still manage to win the battle. Small support ships dedicated to PD or harassment, or long-range soft-flux / EMP ships that don't really deal good amount of damage seems to accumulate all the bad stuff, with the way I play. Is it possible to include shield or EMP damage somehow? If not, can you recommend an ideal CR calculation setting that clamps the ranges a little bit for a pyrrhic victory, or suggest another setting that I might have overlooked?

Aside from that, I'm looking at the source, and I see this function:

Code

static void calculateBattleRatings(float difficulty)

I assume this bit is where we alter CR calculation from the settings file. "battleDifficultyMult" is set to 0.0 by default, so battle difficulty is not considered at all. I was planning to alter the code to help support ships to a degree, mainly negating a good portion of the damage taken through the battle difficulty itself somehow. May I alter these for personal use?

And lastly, two settings that I don't understand. "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"; I assume this is the 50% chance for civilian ships to get negative traits that you mentioned, correct? Setting this to 0.75 as an alternative for example, would it make civilian ships get the good stuff 75% of the time? "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance"; this one I have no idea though. Does this mean a very bad ship with extremely low ratings will never have a chance to redeem itself or something like that?

Sorry for bombarding you with questions

[Sundog]

Is it possible to include shield or EMP damage somehow? If not, can you recommend an ideal CR calculation setting that clamps the ranges a little bit for a pyrrhic victory, or suggest another setting that I might have overlooked?

It's not possible to include non-hull damage, but you could increase the "supportMult" setting. It is also based on hull damage, but it evenly distributes rating between all of your ships, regardless of how much damage they did individually. You might want to reduce "damageDealtMult" to compensate.

Aside from that, I'm looking at the source, and I see this function:

Code

static void calculateBattleRatings(float difficulty)

I assume this bit is where we alter CR calculation from the settings file. "battleDifficultyMult" is set to 0.0 by default, so battle difficulty is not considered at all. I was planning to alter the code to help support ships to a degree, mainly negating a good portion of the damage taken through the battle difficulty itself somehow. May I alter these for personal use?

Of course. Feel free to share your edits as well, if you like.

And lastly, two settings that I don't understand. "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"; I assume this is the 50% chance for civilian ships to get negative traits that you mentioned, correct? Setting this to 0.75 as an alternative for example, would it make civilian ships get the good stuff 75% of the time?

That's exactly right.

"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance"; this one I have no idea though. Does this mean a very bad ship with extremely low ratings will never have a chance to redeem itself or something like that?

It's basically an old legacy setting. It makes it so that the only combat rating that's considered when choosing new traits is the one from the most recent battle, instead of the combined total rating.

Sorry for bombarding you with questions

No worries! I've found that questions are one of the most useful forms of feedback. Helps me figure out what's too unclear or confusing.

[lyravega]

Is it possible to include shield or EMP damage somehow? If not, can you recommend an ideal CR calculation setting that clamps the ranges a little bit for a pyrrhic victory, or suggest another setting that I might have overlooked?

It's not possible to include non-hull damage, but you could increase the "supportMult" setting. It is also based on hull damage, but it evenly distributes rating between all of your ships, regardless of how much damage they did individually. You might want to reduce "damageDealtMult" to compensate.

Thanks! I was wondering if it was possible since the battle report mods keeps track of these as well. Though, in theory, you can deal infinite amounts of shield and EMP damage, so keeping track of it might screw up with the calculations on the long run anyway.

"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance"; this one I have no idea though. Does this mean a very bad ship with extremely low ratings will never have a chance to redeem itself or something like that?

It's basically an old legacy setting. It makes it so that the only combat rating that's considered when choosing new traits is the one from the most recent battle, instead of the combined total rating.

Ahh, I see. If I'm not mistaken, the CR of a ship essentially means how many of the traits will be positive, correct? I believe the OP said something like that. If this setting is turned on, it'll basically override that behaviour in other words, correct?

By the way, after a battle, is it normal for a ship to gain a negative trait with 0 hull damage taken? 2 battles ago, I gained a positive trait. The next battle, I neither gained nor lost any CR, yet one of my positive traits got replaced with a negative one. Am I correct to assume that only one trait can be gained / replaced per battle, and in my case as on the first battle granted the ship a new trait, the next battle replaced a positive with negative due to its CR; trying to come to the balance?

Aside from that, I'm looking at the source, and I see this function: *** I assume this bit is where we alter CR calculation from the settings file. "battleDifficultyMult" is set to 0.0 by default, so battle difficulty is not considered at all. I was planning to alter the code to help support ships to a degree, mainly negating a good portion of the damage taken through the battle difficulty itself somehow. May I alter these for personal use?

Of course. Feel free to share your edits as well, if you like.

Will do! I will try to include battle difficulty without messing up with the default CR calculation ranges you've set up; "-0.35" to "0.75". Are these percentages? Back to the topic, "supportMult" feels like "battleDifficultyMult" if I'm not mistaken, assuming you destroy every single enemy and not allowing any to retreat, is that correct? I'm asking this to avoid double-dipping when altering the code.

I've recently engaged [REDACTED] and lost one of my capitals, 2 of my frigates, and my last capital won the battle with 1% hull remaning (I did not cheat I swear ). Everyone lost like 7-9% CR, however these [REDACTED] ships are extremely powerful for their FP value, need to figure out something for that separately I think.

Anyway, thanks for all the answers and of course, for the mod again!

[Sundog]

Thanks! I was wondering if it was possible since the battle report mods keeps track of these as well. Though, in theory, you can deal infinite amounts of shield and EMP damage, so keeping track of it might screw up with the calculations on the long run anyway.

It's certainly possible to track types of damage other than hull damage from a technical standpoint. However, when I was a tween I played a game called Tactics: Ogre, a tactics rpg similar to final fantasy tactics. It was a pretty neat game, with some interesting features. For example:

• You could forge special swords by sacrificing one of your characters, imbuing the weapon with that character's soul. The power and attributes of the weapon were derived from the character's level and traits.
• You could set up training sessions, pitting your characters against each other to level them up until either side was defeated.
• You could heal during combat, including training sessions.
• You could set your characters to act automatically during combat.

You might see where this is going. Naturally, I set up a training session between two characters that would last forever due to low damage and high healing on both sides, automatically. Then I left the game running overnight. Then I turned both characters into absurdly overpowered weapons that trivialized the rest of the game. So that's why only hull damage is counted.

Ahh, I see. If I'm not mistaken, the CR of a ship essentially means how many of the traits will be positive, correct? I believe the OP said something like that. If this setting is turned on, it'll basically override that behaviour in other words, correct?

Correct.

By the way, after a battle, is it normal for a ship to gain a negative trait with 0 hull damage taken? 2 battles ago, I gained a positive trait. The next battle, I neither gained nor lost any CR, yet one of my positive traits got replaced with a negative one. Am I correct to assume that only one trait can be gained / replaced per battle, and in my case as on the first battle granted the ship a new trait, the next battle replaced a positive with negative due to its CR; trying to come to the balance?

Traits don't get replaced by other traits. After battle a ship may gain a trait, lose a trait, or have two traits switch places. I think what happened in this case is that a neg trait changed places with a pos one, which is typically how traits adjust to match the ship's rating.

I will try to include battle difficulty without messing up with the default CR calculation ranges you've set up; "-0.35" to "0.75". Are these percentages?

It's not important that those totals add up to anything in particular. They're just multipliers for how much different things affect combat rating.

Back to the topic, "supportMult" feels like "battleDifficultyMult" if I'm not mistaken, assuming you destroy every single enemy and not allowing any to retreat, is that correct? I'm asking this to avoid double-dipping when altering the code.

Yeah, they're very similar. supportMult is basically the newer version of battleDifficultyMult. I would suggest only using one or the other.

I've recently engaged [REDACTED] and lost one of my capitals, 2 of my frigates, and my last capital won the battle with 1% hull remaning (I did not cheat I swear ). Everyone lost like 7-9% CR, however these [REDACTED] ships are extremely powerful for their FP value, need to figure out something for that separately I think.

Heh, yup. It used to be even worse. The strength of remnant ships is actually calculated differently than other ships to bring them more in line.

Anyway, thanks for all the answers and of course, for the mod again!

[lyravega]

Thanks! I was wondering if it was possible since the battle report mods keeps track of these as well. Though, in theory, you can deal infinite amounts of shield and EMP damage, so keeping track of it might screw up with the calculations on the long run anyway.

It's certainly possible to track types of damage other than hull damage from a technical standpoint. However, when I was a tween I played a game called Tactics: Ogre, a tactics rpg similar to final fantasy tactics. It was a pretty neat game, with some interesting features. For example:

• You could forge special swords by sacrificing one of your characters, imbuing the weapon with that character's soul. The power and attributes of the weapon were derived from the character's level and traits.
• You could set up training sessions, pitting your characters against each other to level them up until either side was defeated.
• You could heal during combat, including training sessions.
• You could set your characters to act automatically during combat.

You might see where this is going. Naturally, I set up a training session between two characters that would last forever due to low damage and high healing on both sides, automatically. Then I left the game running overnight. Then I turned both characters into absurdly overpowered weapons that trivialized the rest of the game. So that's why only hull damage is counted.

Last game I did something similar was Kenshi. Though I usually set the game speed to absurd levels through Cheat Engine to avoid leaving the computer on overnight

I will try to include battle difficulty without messing up with the default CR calculation ranges you've set up; "-0.35" to "0.75". Are these percentages?

It's not important that those totals add up to anything in particular. They're just multipliers for how much different things affect combat rating.

It's not important, but as far as balance goes, you set those numbers up in that way for a reason. Don't want to upset the intended mod balance, so to speak For enemy fleets though, I set the maximum trait numbers to a higher level. Do the negative traits for enemy fleets also get multiplied by the "fleetTraitEffectMult"?

I've recently engaged [REDACTED] and lost one of my capitals, 2 of my frigates, and my last capital won the battle with 1% hull remaning (I did not cheat I swear ). Everyone lost like 7-9% CR, however these [REDACTED] ships are extremely powerful for their FP value, need to figure out something for that separately I think.

Heh, yup. It used to be even worse. The strength of remnant ships is actually calculated differently than other ships to bring them more in line.

What about the other [REDACTED]?

Spoiler

Omega things

[close]

? I should check the source files a bit more when I get back home

[Sundog]

Do the negative traits for enemy fleets also get multiplied by the "fleetTraitEffectMult"?
[snip]
What about the other [REDACTED]?

Yes and yes

[Zuthal]

With the intended 2.0.0 changes, why are the ammo-related traits restricted to ships with energy and missile mounts? Even in vanilla, there is now an ammo-using ballistic weapon in the Thumper, and lots of mods also add ammo-using ballistic weapons.

[Sundog]

I just don't think Thumper (and thermal pulse cannon maybe?) are enough to justify such traits. And I don't want to rely on people having mods with certain content in order for this mod to work properly. I'll lift the restriction if there are ever enough vanilla ballistic weapons that rely on ammo.

[Zuthal]

I just don't think Thumper (and thermal pulse cannon maybe?) are enough to justify such traits. And I don't want to rely on people having mods with certain content in order for this mod to work properly. I'll lift the restriction if there are ever enough vanilla ballistic weapons that rely on ammo.

That does make sense, yeah.

Pretty sure TPCs are internally classified as energy weapons. And there are, if I didn't miscount... 10 modular weapons that go into energy slots in vanilla that use ammo.

As a compromise, would it be possible to make that restriction adjustable via a config setting, so that people who have mods that add lots of ammo-using ballistic weapons can turn it off for themselves?

[Sundog]

As a compromise, would it be possible to make that restriction adjustable via a config setting, so that people who have mods that add lots of ammo-using ballistic weapons can turn it off for themselves?

Not via the config, no, but it will be possible to lift the restriction by editing /sun_sl/data/traits.csv
You'll just need to remove the "SYNERGY" tag from the rows that start with ammo_regen and ammo_capacity. Just make sure not to leave behind any stray commas! 

[liliyn]

Are the traits supposed to work like this? I'm getting bad traits every time I play a battle

[Sundog]

Yes. Any time a ship loses at least 1% of its rating there's a chance of it earning a negative trait. It won't work this way in the upcoming major update (which I'm hoping to release soon)

[Sundog]

Starship Legends 2.0.0
NOT compatible with previous versions!

I released the first version of Starship Legends almost 3 years ago, and this is the first save-breaking update that removes features. Notably, the entire combat rating system has been gutted, and I will not be maintaining an alternate version that includes it. I apologize for the inconvenience and the removal of features that some of you may have enjoyed, but this is the most practical way forward that I could come up with. There has been a lot of great feedback that, until now, I've essentially been forced to ignore due to the limitations of the combat rating system and the entire premise of ships earning traits based on combat performance. With this update, I've done my best to consider all of the suggestions and feedback I've received so far to create something that works well out-of-the-box for more people (without them having to muck around with a complicated configuration file).

Major Changes:
   Overhauled the underlying structure of the mod due to extensive changes, meaning this version is not save compatible with previous versions
   Completely removed the combat rating system (My apologies to those of you who liked it, but it was too much of a mess...)
   The traits ships earn are now predetermined based on their unique ID
   With default settings, ships will have between 1 and 4 negative traits by the time they are legendary
   New events allow traits to be adjusted (and sometimes turned from bad to good by sacrificing loyalty)
   Ship reputations may no longer be reset by extended mothballing (now they would just earn the same traits again anyway)
   Ships now accrue XP (hidden by default) toward new traits and loyalty instead of being based on chance
   Loyalty is no longer reduced due to hull damage, instead, two tiers of loyalty is lost whenever a ship is disabled
   Traits now come in pairs, and are unlocked in such a way that the best pairs are unlocked last
   The next pair of traits that haven't been unlocked yet can be seen in the reputation hullmod tooltip ("Rumored traits")
   When loyalty is "Insubordinate" or below, the maximum CR of the ship will be reduced. Removing the captain is a valid remedy to this problem
   Loyalty may now go as low as "Mutinous," and, temporarily, as high as "Inspired"
   Many settings have been added to and removed from the options file
   Settings are now re-loaded each time a save is loaded
Added "Inspirations": A new maximum loyalty level that procs randomly and expires after 30-120 days, depending on how much xp the ship has earned since the end of the previous inspiration
Added reputation themes: Sometimes, the traits ships earn will not be completely random, but instead based on hand-tailored probability tables
Added 7 new bar event variations allowing you to:
   Convert one of your ship's traits to a randomly selected trait of the same sign/goodness
   Sacrifice loyalty to make a negative trait positive (only if loyalty is at least "Fiercely Loyal")
   Sacrifice loyalty to remove one dmod (only if loyalty is at least "Loyal")
   Sell one of your famous or legendary ships at a premium, even if it's not currently in your fleet (must be in storage at a market, not an abandoned location)
   Hire overeager crew who will somewhat improve loyalty for one of your ships
   Hire on new officers, along with their loyal crew and noteworthy ship
   Read a short summary of the service record of one of your ships after it reaches legendary status (once per ship), granting 1 story point
Added a random intel event that allows you to convert one of your ship's traits to a randomly selected trait of the same sign/goodness
Added 2 new traits that are only available to ships that can mount sufficient missile/energy weapons:
   Large/Small Ammo Hoppers - Adjusts ammo capacity
   Rapid/Sluggish Ammo Forge - Adjusts ammo regen rate

[IGdood]

Well at least my suicidal Luddic ships won't have completely insubordinate crew...
But I just started.a new game.  Time to restart again haha