Fractal Softworks Forum

Starsector => Mods => Topic started by: Sundog on May 01, 2019, 07:30:24 PM

Title: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 01, 2019, 07:30:24 PM

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Starship Legends

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
Change Log and Old Versions (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/)

Compatible with all known mods.
Can be added to existing games.
All updates are save-compatible unless stated otherwise.
Integrated with Version Checker (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8181) and Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) (enter "help starship_legends" for a list of commands).
Can NOT be removed from games in which it was already used, but it can be fully disabled.
Highly configurable. See the OPTIONS.ini file in the mod folder or use LunaLib (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25658.0) to edit settings in-game.

(https://i.imgur.com/ayIFXmf.png)

Starship Legends adds more personality and variety to ships, their crew, your officers, and NPC fleets using a trait/quirk system.

As the reputation of each of your ships grow, it will earn traits that influence its performance.
These traits are stored in a single dynamic hullmod. Like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/CEhGvzA.png)


Major Features:

Reputation Growth
As your ships are used in ways that earn you experience, their reputations grow, earning them traits that affect their performance.

The first few traits are easy to get, but getting a ship to 'Legendary' status may require enough experience to get to the max level.
Fortunately, ships will gain new traits faster the higher your character level is. At max level, they will earn traits ten times as fast.
Dealing a lot of hull damage to enemy ships will also greatly increase the rate at which the reputations of your ships grow.

The traits a ship earns are predetermined, but they aren't set in stone.
Periodically, your officers will propose ideas that can change the traits of their ship.
If their crew is loyal enough, these proposals can sometimes even replace a bad trait with a good one.

The way reputations grow and change is highly configurable.
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Crew Loyalty
The loyalty of crew members to their captains will also grow as you gain experience.

With higher loyalty, ships may remain in combat longer due to the crew's determination, and all of the ships traits will be improved.
When a ship is disabled, however, the crew tends to become upset with whoever the captain was at the time.
Reduced loyalty worsens traits, reduces effective combat time, and can even reduce the ships maximum combat readiness.
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Enemy Fleet Reputations
Yours aren't the only ships with reputations. Each AI fleet commander grants a reputation to their entire fleet, adding potential twists to every engagement. Fleets with high-level commanders have better reputations.

(https://i.imgur.com/9QvcWm0.png)

The types of traits a fleet is likely to have is based on its faction

  • Hegemony fleets frequently have traits related to weapons and durability.
  • Tri Tachyon fleets have a high chance to get traits that modify fighters and phase ships.
  • Sindrian Diktat fleets usually have increased range and reduced mobility, with a high chance of weapon related traits.
  • Luddic fleets are almost always poorly maintained and believed to be cursed, but often deal more damage.
  • Persian League fleets are likely to get traits that modify shields and flux stats.
  • Domain drone fleets often have traits that improve staying power at the expense of speed and accuracy.
  • Remnant fleets often have traits that make them even more powerful at the expense of increased overload and vent duration.
  • Independent and pirate fleets have a decent chance to get the blockade runner trait, which is normally unavailable to other factions.
  • Modded factions often have customized reputations to give their fleets extra flavor.
  • Fleets from modded factions that haven't integrated with starship legends get a balanced set of randomized traits.
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Famous NPC Flagships
You will often hear rumors about the flagships of other fleet commanders as well. If you can defeat them and salvage their flagship, perhaps you deserve it more.

(https://i.imgur.com/u5vIglp.png)
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Lost Famous Derelicts
If you're lucky, you might even learn about worthy ships that can be acquired without bloodshed (however likely other complications may be)

(https://i.imgur.com/JtiLz4M.png)
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Other Legends About Starships
As you explore the sector and the reputation of your fleet grows, you will meet people who have heard of you and your ships.
This can lead to some interesting interactions, from enthusiastic spacers who want to enlist as crew, to opportunists who want to buy your most famous ships.
Captains of famous ships may offer to join you, and you may even learn something by listening to a story about one of your own ships.
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Answers for Mod Users

Can I add Starship Legends to an existing game?
Yes, and all features will be present.
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Does this mod introduce power creep?
The difficulty of this mod is highly configurable, but with default settings I think it's about the same as vanilla.
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How long do famous derelicts and famous flagships last?
Derelicts will typically last forever unless an NPC fleet is trying to recover it. If that's the case, the time remaining is noted in the intel screen (typically up to 72 days). Even after the NPC fleet recovers the derelict you can still recover it by fighting them before they return home and despawn. If the NPC fleet is destroyed for any reason prior to recovering the derelict, then the derelict will last forever.

Famous flagships and the fleets they belong to already exist before the bar event occurs. Starships legends does nothing to change the behavior of those fleets, so it doesn't control how long they last, aside from trying to choose fleets that won't be destroyed or despawn too soon.
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What options does this mod provide?
You can use LunaLib  (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25658.0)or edit STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini in the mod folder to change many things, like:
How strong traits are and how hard it is to get them.
How likely it is to get good traits instead of bad ones.
How likely it is for combat ships to get logistic traits and civilian ships to get combat traits.
How loyalty changes work.
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Is there a way to reset a ship's reputation?
Only with console commands.
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Does Starship Legends conflict with any other mods?
Not that I know of. Please let me know if you suspect any conflicts!
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Can I remove Starship Legends from my game?
No, but it can be disabled by setting "removeAllDataAndFeatures" to true in the options file (it's at the bottom)
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Can I increase the number of traits that my ships get?
Yes, but it is not recommended. Increasing the maximum number of traits too much can skew trait distribution and even cause ships to "run out" of appropriate traits before reaching max tier. If that's okay with you, you can increase "traitPairsPerTier" in the options file.
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Answers for Mod Authors
I'm happy to help with integration in any way I can, so feel free to ask for clarification/help/etc.

How do I customize the way Starship Legends interacts with my faction mod?
  • First, download the example config file (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/master/factionConfigurations.json) and place it in "mods/YOUR_MOD/data/config/starship_legends/"
  • Edit the file to your liking. It's full of comments. You probably won't need most of it, so feel free to delete unneeded parts
  • Load a save file with this mod and your faction enabled
  • Check the log for a message like this: INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading config file for faction: your faction name
If you see that line in the log without any errors following it, then everything is probably working fine.
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How can I create new traits?
You can add new types of Starship Legends traits to your mod by creating a traits.csv file at "mods/YOUR_MOD/data/config/starship_legends/". You can use Starship Legends' traits.csv file as an example. It should be mostly self explanatory, but if you have questions please don't hesitate to ask.

In order for the new trait to have any effect you'll need to write a bit of code to define what the effect is. For best results I recommend creating a class specifically for this purpose, like this:
Quote
public class StarshipLegends {
    public static void createTraits() {
        starship_legends.Integration.registerTraitEffect("your_energy_damage_trait_key", new starship_legends.TraitType.Effect() {
            @Override
            public void apply(MutableShipStatsAPI stats, FleetMemberAPI ship, String id, float effectPercent) {
                stats.getEnergyWeaponDamageMult().modifyPercent(id, effectPercent);
            }

            @Override
            public boolean isAppliedToFighters() {
                return false;
            }
        });
       
        starship_legends.Integration.registerTraitEffect("your_special_trait_key", false);
        // The scale of this effect can be accessed by using stats.getDynamic().getValue("your_special_trait_key")
    }
}
And calling the createTraits method like this:
Quote
public class ModPlugin extends BaseModPlugin {
    @Override
    public void onApplicationLoad() {
        if(Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("sun_starship_legends")) {
            StarshipLegends.createTraits();
        }
    }
}
This method will allow your mod to work with or without Starship Legends by sidestepping class loader conflicts.
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How do I make Starship Legends use biological-themed trait names and flavor text for my ships?
To make it so traits names are bio-themed when players encounter the NPC fleets of your faction, set "useBiologicalTraitNames" to TRUE in the faction's config file. If there is no way for players to get your bio-ships, then that's all you need to do.

For any bio-ship that players can acquire, you'll want to pass its hull_id to starship_legends.Integration.registerBiologicalShip() in onApplicationLoad(), like this:
Quote
public class ModPlugin extends BaseModPlugin {
    @Override
    public void onApplicationLoad() {
        if(Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("sun_starship_legends")) {
            starship_legends.Integration.registerBiologicalShip("myHullID_1");
            starship_legends.Integration.registerBiologicalShip("myHullID_2");
        }
    }
}
You might want to iterate through all hulls and pass in their ID if they meet a certain criteria, such as having a hullmod that only your bio-ships have.
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Is it possible to create new reputation tiers?
Not without editing and recompiling the source code. Feel free to fork the repo (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends)!
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About Starship Legends
Source Code (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/tree/master/src/starship_legends)

Thanks
Alex and the rest of the Fractal Softworks team, for this excellent game and it's outstanding modding API.
Tecrys, for coming up with trait names that are appropriate for biological "spaceships"
Voiddweller, for letting me steal his idea (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15291.0).
LazyWizard, for making this mod much easier to test using Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0).
kazi, for the guide on setting up Intelij IDE (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0).

Permissions
All assets from this project may be used without obtaining explicit permission as long as...
No laws are broken and Fractal Softworks' terms of service are not violated
The original authors of any code or assets used are credited
Nothing taken from this mod is used for nefarious purposes
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Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Vayra on May 01, 2019, 07:48:51 PM
oh HELL yes, i was waiting for this one
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Surge on May 01, 2019, 07:51:51 PM
THE DAY IS HERE. So excited to play with this.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TauKinth on May 01, 2019, 07:56:54 PM
It looks like a good mod to fit the same niche as Extra Systems, I can't wait to break play with it!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: cjuicy on May 01, 2019, 08:17:28 PM
Damn it, stop revolutionizing my mod list every time I take a freakin nap!

In all seriousness, I'm wrapping up a current run and will begin toying around with this in short order. Definitely look forward to it.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Morbo513 on May 01, 2019, 08:24:21 PM
This sounds really cool. What are the mechanics behind crew loyalty?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JadedTarget on May 01, 2019, 08:50:55 PM
This is just plain cool.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 01, 2019, 10:36:28 PM
Glad you guys like it  :D

I can't wait to break play with it!
Please do! It's much easier to fix bugs when I know about them  :)

This sounds really cool. What are the mechanics behind crew loyalty?
I'll flesh out the FAQs soon with answers to this question and others. For now you might want to take a look at the options file to get an idea of how it works. Basically it's the same as good vs bad traits, with hull damage taken in battle being the primary factor.

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dri on May 02, 2019, 12:59:26 AM
Pretty rad, this is the type of thing I'd hope Alex would seriously look into added to the in some way.

More personality for ships/crew is always welcome.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 02, 2019, 01:35:23 AM
It's not the old crew experience, but I will check it out. Looks promising.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Cyan Leader on May 02, 2019, 04:58:25 AM
The modding community never ceases to amaze me. Are these applied to AI fleets in any way though? I could see this working hand in hand with bounties, facing some legendary fleets and such.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Flunky on May 02, 2019, 07:05:19 AM
I haven't yet fiddled around with the mod, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it'd be interesting to have certain good traits associated with getting battle damage (but surviving) and certain bad traits associated with getting through unscathed.

E.g. crew getting complacent after too many easy victories, or crew getting grim/determined after skin-of-the-teeth victories.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Wyvern on May 02, 2019, 12:00:08 PM
This looks awesome.

However, I'd definitely want to adjust the connection to hull damage; at least in my experience, any ship that relies on armor as its primary defense (i.e. the entire low-tech line-up) will usually take a small-to-moderate amount of hull damage in the course of a normal battle.  And then you get into the industry fleet-of-clunkers playstyle where you expect your ships to get battered in combat...

Personally, I already skew towards preferring high-tech shield-based ships just because I don't like taking crew casualties.  I don't need another thing that encourages that same playstyle.

I'm not entirely sure what to replace it with, though; there does definitely still need to be the possibility of acquiring negative traits so that it's not just pure power creep, and making that completely RNG feels off too...

Additionally, I don't know maybe this is already in (haven't had a chance to play with this yet and won't for a couple days), but I'd suggest that there be a way to wipe the slate clean and start over - maybe treating the reputation mod as a d-mod that'll get removed (and then re-applied clean) after a full shipyard restoration of the hull?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Surge on May 02, 2019, 12:15:40 PM
Trying to load a save that has this mod and I'm getting this error
Code
299393 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: ruthless_sector/ModPlugin
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: ruthless_sector/ModPlugin
at starship_legends.ModPlugin.reportCrash(ModPlugin.java:140)
at starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation.applyEffects(Reputation.java:186)
at starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation.applyEffectsBeforeShipCreation(Reputation.java:229)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.updateStats(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.syncIfNeeded(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.getMembers(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetData.getMembersListCopy(Unknown Source)
at data.scripts.SWPModPlugin.onGameLoad(SWPModPlugin.java:209)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager.o00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.TitleScreenState.dialogDismissed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.while.dismiss(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.float.dismiss(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.LoadGameDialog.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.ui.V.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: ruthless_sector.ModPlugin
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
... 22 more
Which I'm posting here instead of in the ruthless sector thread because I don't use ruthless sector.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 01:43:43 PM
Thanks for the report! I should be able to get a patch out soon.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 02:13:09 PM
Fixed a crash caused by an incompatibility with Ship/Weapon Pack (my fault)
Fixed an error that caused the error reporting system to fail
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dal on May 02, 2019, 03:43:40 PM
I agree with the hull damage concerns. I tend to fly my ships to their last weld in combat but don't typically actually lose them. Maybe the metric could be number of crew casualties? Or maybe CR degradation in combat, representing over-working?

Also, grats on getting mentioned on Alex's twitter.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ranakastrasz on May 02, 2019, 04:29:39 PM
I agree with the hull damage concerns. I tend to fly my ships to their last weld in combat but don't typically actually lose them. Maybe the metric could be number of crew casualties? Or maybe CR degradation in combat, representing over-working?

Also, grats on getting mentioned on Alex's twitter.

I always thought hull damage caused crew casualties. Admittedly, I never checked. But yes, I do the same thing.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 06:08:38 PM
Are these applied to AI fleets in any way though? I could see this working hand in hand with bounties, facing some legendary fleets and such.
Currently reputations only apply to player-owned ships, and for the most part that won't change. The problem with NPC ships having traits is that there would be no good way to show those traits to the player, which would lead to random and unpredictable variations in the strength of enemy ships.

However, if I can figure out a good way to do it, I would like to make it so that the flagships of bounty fleets have traits sometimes. I would have to be able to list the traits in the intel screen though, so it might not be feasible.

I haven't yet fiddled around with the mod, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it'd be interesting to have certain good traits associated with getting battle damage (but surviving) and certain bad traits associated with getting through unscathed.
This could make sense thematically and I do think it could be interesting, but I wouldn't want to encourage players to get their ships damaged in the hopes of getting certain traits. I think players should be rewarded for playing effectively, not ineffectively.

I agree with the hull damage concerns. I tend to fly my ships to their last weld in combat but don't typically actually lose them. Maybe the metric could be number of crew casualties? Or maybe CR degradation in combat, representing over-working?
Using hull damage as the primary metric isn't perfect, but I still think it's the best one. I think the complications for things like crew losses or CR are worse. I think the best way to go about it is to make adjustments based on things like how difficult the battle was (which is accounted for in the current version) and how much damage the ship dealt (which I'll probably add soon).

in my experience, any ship that relies on armor as its primary defense (i.e. the entire low-tech line-up) will usually take a small-to-moderate amount of hull damage in the course of a normal battle.
I agree that low-tech style ships are more likely to take some hull damage, but in my experience you can prevent them from taking massive damage more reliably than high-tech ships. I think the real problem is tanky vs squishy ships. I think glass cannons like Sunders should be able to compensate for taking some hull damage by dealing hull damage.

And then you get into the industry fleet-of-clunkers playstyle where you expect your ships to get battered in combat...
I agree that starship legends could cause gameplay problems for this playstyle, but thematically I think it fits perfectly. The crewmen of a fleet like that would hate their ships, captains, and lives, and It makes sense that rust-buckets would have bad reputations. From a gameplay perspective I don't think the commonality of bad traits would be too bad due to how disposable ships are in a fleet like that. High ship turn-over means more bad traits, but it also means more ships (with different reputations) to choose from.

Personally, I already skew towards preferring high-tech shield-based ships just because I don't like taking crew casualties.  I don't need another thing that encourages that same playstyle.
Same. Overall, I do think that high-tech ships are generally the most powerful, but I don't want to try to compensate for imbalances in vanilla.

I'd suggest that there be a way to wipe the slate clean and start over - maybe treating the reputation mod as a d-mod that'll get removed (and then re-applied clean) after a full shipyard restoration of the hull?
I would personally prefer for reputations to persist through restorations so that it's possible to restore a ship with a reputation you like. However, I am considering adding an opt-in option to make it so that ships in storage gradually lose their traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Flunky on May 02, 2019, 07:19:12 PM
I haven't yet fiddled around with the mod, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it'd be interesting to have certain good traits associated with getting battle damage (but surviving) and certain bad traits associated with getting through unscathed.
This could make sense thematically and I do think it could be interesting, but I wouldn't want to encourage players to get their ships damaged in the hopes of getting certain traits. I think players should be rewarded for playing effectively, not ineffectively.

Fair point. And, having now played with it a little bit, seems to be enough of a chance to get negatives when doing fine (and vice versa) that one can get the story of a complacent or determined crew even if that's not the actual mechanic. Works for me.

Additionally, having looked at the options and thinking about others' comments: would it be possible to make it a three point chance of malus plot rather than the two currently? E.g. instead of "chanceOfMalusAtNoHullLost" and "chanceOfMalusAtHalfHullLost", it could be a 0->33->66 sort of thing or the like? Having the chance get more severe as the ship gets closer to being disabled might offset alleviate the low/high-tech disparity, given their relative armor and hull levels.

Also, because I forgot to say this the first time: great mod, thanks! Even with just a bit of playing I'm finding little stories coming together with this.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tei on May 02, 2019, 08:34:04 PM
So judging from this thread and me trying out this mod, Hull damage makes your crew hate you. Currently Im piloting my dominator and it can take hits, but even though I more or less cut a bloody path through an enemy fleet and punching far above my weight the ships crew absolutely hates me.

Maybe have it so that the penalties/traits can get nullified after battle depending on how much damage you deal in return or how many kills you get during battle.

Perhaps have a "Blood Lust" or "Extreme Aggression" trait that makes your crew hating you worth it (and turning your currently piloted ship into a go hard, go fast or die trying sort of vessel.)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zhentar on May 02, 2019, 08:51:38 PM
with hull damage taken in battle being the primary factor.

Are you sure about the in battle part? Because my civilian vessels are rapidly accumulating traits while traveling through hyperspace storms... one of my Ox tugs has rickety hardpoints and a worn-out targeting computer now. I know the description says they can be superstitions but that's a bit extreme...

Other things I've noticed:
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 09:28:04 PM
New Known Issues

@Zhentar: Hull damage doesn't matter for civilian ships that aren't deployed. Their chance of getting a negative trait is simply 50%. The other things are bugs that have recently been reported to me. I just came here to let people know about them until I can get a fix out, but thanks for telling me about them!

@Tei, Flunky: Thanks for the feedback, guys! I'll reply soon, but for now I want to focus on getting a patch out.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2019, 11:29:16 PM
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 03, 2019, 01:19:50 AM
Small typo: "Volitile Flux Core"

I do love the mod! But before specific feedback I want to ask, what the long term goal of the mod. Is it to make the player look to build ther "perfect" starship, with no critical nigative traits? Or is the goal to give ships variety by giving ships both positive and negative traits?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: dk1332 on May 03, 2019, 01:55:09 AM
Looks good, gonna try this mod after my current campaign.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nicke535 on May 03, 2019, 02:11:57 AM
Amazing work so far, Sundog.

Minor feature suggestion: changed hullmod description/"trait-up" description for ships with zero crew capacity. Mechanically it still works, but an automated ship with reference to crew can be an odd inconsistency.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 03, 2019, 04:08:09 AM
in my experience, any ship that relies on armor as its primary defense (i.e. the entire low-tech line-up) will usually take a small-to-moderate amount of hull damage in the course of a normal battle.
I agree that low-tech style ships are more likely to take some hull damage, but in my experience you can prevent them from taking massive damage more reliably than high-tech ships. I think the real problem is tanky vs squishy ships. I think glass cannons like Sunders should be able to compensate for taking some hull damage by dealing hull damage.

Personally, I already skew towards preferring high-tech shield-based ships just because I don't like taking crew casualties.  I don't need another thing that encourages that same playstyle.
Same. Overall, I do think that high-tech ships are generally the most powerful, but I don't want to try to compensate for imbalances in vanilla.
Would it be possible to have a modifier that changes the chances for negative traits either on tech-level or deviation from average size health pool basis?

The thing about high-tech ships is that they're supposed to be less numerous and more individually powerful, which is reflected in their logistical footprint, at least maintenance-wise.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: YuiTheModder on May 03, 2019, 09:27:56 AM
Does this mod add the ability for enemy captains and their fleets/ships to also have a reputation and custom ship hullmods?

I would love that.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tei on May 03, 2019, 10:06:40 AM
New Known Issues
  • Restoring a ship will remove it's reputation hullmod until it has any new reputation change (including crew opinions of officers), at which point all previous traits will be restored.
  • It's possible to get the same type of trait. Starship legends prevents ships from getting traits they already have, but not ones that they will have.

@Zhentar: Hull damage doesn't matter for civilian ships that aren't deployed. Their chance of getting a negative trait is simply 50%. The other things are bugs that have recently been reported to me. I just came here to let people know about them until I can get a fix out, but thanks for telling me about them!

@Tei, Flunky: Thanks for the feedback, guys! I'll reply soon, but for now I want to focus on getting a patch out.

Speaking of which, what exactly influences what traits you get? My dominator flagship has reduced vent rates, is it because I vent so much in battle?

Though its totally believable to say that because I vent so much the machines responsible for ship venting is starting to get worn out. But at the same it can be handwaved that because I command the cre to vent so often that the crew is much more profficient and knowledgeable of the procedure for venting thus venting is more optimized.

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: HELMUT on May 03, 2019, 12:12:20 PM
One on hand, this seems like a refined version of the Extra Systems mod, and i really want to try that.

On the other hand, i should probably wait for the inevitable others gameplay-change mods you'll release after this one before playing. I mean, this is your fourth one, you won't stop there right?

Joke aside, i'm not super sure with the way negative traits are gained depending on hull damage either. Yes, i do fly my ships like a Pather, and no, i won't compromise my reckless piloting for something as trivial as self-preservation.

But the bonuses! I want them! Although i admit i'm not sure what would be the solution either... I am against the solution of "repetition until mastered" like Trei suggested. I spent too much time in Skyrim afk-hitting a mammoth with a stick to increase my one-handed skill already.

Maybe the gained traits can depends on a battle end-result? Coming out of a fight half-alive at the top of a mountain of your foe's skulls would probably net you better traits than coming out half-alive without firing a single shot.

The combat analytics mod by Nick allow for some pretty impressive stat recording during battle. Perhaps something similar could be exploited to determine the traits one ship can gain depending on its performance? That way i could still behave like a glory hound while spacing half of my crew.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 03, 2019, 12:26:20 PM
I have noticed that some (but not all) Sylphon ships do not seem to get traits. In my "pursuit" frigate/fast destroyer squadron for auto-resolving stragglers, most ships are now "Famous", while the Celica Rel I have has no traits. Meanwhile the Sylphon battlecruiser and the totally-not-Spaceship-Yamato I have get traits just fine, even without a crew for the former.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tei on May 03, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
That way i could still behave like a glory hound while spacing half of my crew.

I see you too are a Space Admiral of culture as well.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 03, 2019, 02:30:40 PM
Starship Legends 1.0.3 (BETA)

Fixed an error caused by crew loyalty changes without new traits. The error was introduced in the last patch. Sorry about that!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on May 03, 2019, 03:09:06 PM
The combat analytics mod by Nick allow for some pretty impressive stat recording during battle. Perhaps something similar could be exploited to determine the traits one ship can gain depending on its performance? That way i could still behave like a glory hound while spacing half of my crew.

This would be very cool. Combat Analytics doesn't do perfect assessments of damage dealt/taken (it does an educated guess to work out who killed what, and it doesn't model armour/shield reductions to damage so frag damage is overrepresented iirc) but being able to say "I took a lot of damage but killed a lot of ships" and get a relevant associated reputation would be very cool.

You could go more in depth and track a lot more metrics, and relate traits to things like, say, being the ship that did a lot of damage to and (probably) killed a much larger ship and getting a reputation as giantslayers, or preying on all the small trash frigates the AI sends into battle, or maybe taking a lot of shield damage but no/little armour damage says something about the quality of the shielding on your ship, fighting in a lot of pursuits and not a lot of battles, etc etc, although associating stuff that happens in battle to traits more closely might have its own issues and would result in a lot more coding work for Sundog.

A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 03, 2019, 03:34:54 PM
A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
I am very much in favor of this. If the goal is to give ships variety and uniqueness, rather than straight up "buffs or re-roll", this would be better. Using the existing system, basically at each fame level the ship could get a guaranteed positive and negative trait that are semi-linked in a thematic way.

For example:
*Ship takes a lot of hull damage over many battles without retreating or going down: likely to gain a positive trait on repair rate, CR recovery, HP, mount/Engine durability (crew gets used to patching it up). Linked negative traits: CR cap, peak CR time (crew can never quite the the ship fully fixed), crew casualties, sensors (always get taken out from damage)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 03, 2019, 05:14:07 PM
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions! I'm glad you guys are enjoying it  :D

Avoiding Bad Traits
I've received a LOT of good feedback about this (both here and on Discord), and I've given quite a bit of thought to figuring out how best to improve the system. So here's a rough idea of what I have in mind:
I also need to write up a clear and detailed description of how the system works for the FAQ.

Would it be possible to make it a three point chance of malus plot rather than the two currently? E.g. instead of "chanceOfMalusAtNoHullLost" and "chanceOfMalusAtHalfHullLost", it could be a 0->33->66 sort of thing or the like?
It's certainly possible, but I want to avoid making the system any more complicated than necessary. I think it's important for game mechanics to be easy to understand.

Small typo: "Volitile Flux Core"
Thanks! Fixed for the next release.

what the long term goal of the mod. Is it to make the player look to build ther "perfect" starship, with no critical nigative traits? Or is the goal to give ships variety by giving ships both positive and negative traits?
Very much both, depending on the stage of the game. At the start of a game I want it to be about dealing with whatever traits you end up with as best you can, but by the very late-game the goal is to provide both a money and xp sink in the form of optimizing traits to build ideal ships.

Minor feature suggestion: changed hullmod description/"trait-up" description for ships with zero crew capacity. Mechanically it still works, but an automated ship with reference to crew can be an odd inconsistency.
Agreed. It's on my TODO list, along with a few other things to support automated ships.

Would it be possible to have a modifier that changes the chances for negative traits either on tech-level or deviation from average size health pool basis?
Possible, yeah, but I'd like to avoid deliberate balancing. I think change 4 will help normalize things. Change 1 might help too, especially in cases like Dominator/Onslaught.

Does this mod add the ability for enemy captains and their fleets/ships to also have a reputation and custom ship hullmods?
Spoiler
Are these applied to AI fleets in any way though? I could see this working hand in hand with bounties, facing some legendary fleets and such.
Currently reputations only apply to player-owned ships, and for the most part that won't change. The problem with NPC ships having traits is that there would be no good way to show those traits to the player, which would lead to random and unpredictable variations in the strength of enemy ships.

However, if I can figure out a good way to do it, I would like to make it so that the flagships of bounty fleets have traits sometimes. I would have to be able to list the traits in the intel screen though, so it might not be feasible.
[close]

Speaking of which, what exactly influences what traits you get? My dominator flagship has reduced vent rates, is it because I vent so much in battle?
Nope. It's mostly just RNG (for reasons discussed above)

On the other hand, i should probably wait for the inevitable others gameplay-change mods you'll release after this one before playing. I mean, this is your fourth one, you won't stop there right?
For now I will. My other ideas for gameplay-change mods have a much lower ROI than the ones I've made so far. I think my next mod will be a very small, refined version of ICE. And when I say very small, I mean only 3 new ships.

I have noticed that some (but not all) Sylphon ships do not seem to get traits. In my "pursuit" frigate/fast destroyer squadron for auto-resolving stragglers, most ships are now "Famous", while the Celica Rel I have has no traits. Meanwhile the Sylphon battlecruiser and the totally-not-Spaceship-Yamato I have get traits just fine, even without a crew for the former.
Starship legends currently neglects ships with a crew requirement of 0, assuming any excess crew are just along for the ride. I'll work on improving this.

You could go more in depth and track a lot more metrics, [snip] although associating stuff that happens in battle to traits more closely might have its own issues and would result in a lot more coding work for Sundog.
While basing traits on specific things that happen in battle would be better for the storytelling aspect of things, I think it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to make the gameplay work well.

A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
I am very much in favor of this.
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 03, 2019, 07:13:23 PM
This looks very cool! I'm going to start a new game with this and see how it goes.

Edit:

Oof. I will say, going through a few battles taking 0 hull damage and smashing enemies, it is a bit of a kick in the pants to have the first trait be negative. Ah well, will keep playing!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 04, 2019, 12:25:16 PM
...
A suggestion I have is to make the traits not purely positive or negative, but to give them mixed upsides and downsides. So there would be traits that are better and traits that are worse, but you'd get a bit of something even out of bad traits.
I am very much in favor of this.
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

Kind of, but not really. If a player gets their first trait bad... they should 100% scrap the ship for supplies, or relegate it to unofficered suicide duty. At least in the early-mid game when the player has a good supply of ships. There isn't really a reason to keep it at that point, its a permanent D mod that gives no supply cost reduction. If the 'bad' traits were more 'neutral' (ie they have some bad and some good mixed) then this wouldn't be the case.

It would probably be quite a bit of work to retweak all of them in this way though.

Maybe you could actually add supply cost reductions for negative traits? That would make them still permanent D mods, but at least they would come with the same benefits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zhentar on May 04, 2019, 12:34:24 PM
Some trait balance notes:

* Agile is really insignificant relative to other traits. At Legendary, it's a 10% maneuverability bonus, making it 1/5th of Evasive Action level 1 (and actually not even that, because Evasive Action maneuverability applies double to turn acceleration), while many other traits are on par with level 2 or level 3 skills.
* Turret durability and turn rate also seem disproportionately low, thought I don't think the margin is as large as agile
* Logistics mods like fuel & cargo capacity range from completely irrelevant to make-or-break, depending on the ship's base capacity. This is particularly significant for tankers & freighters, since it can make them dramatically better/worse at their one & only job, and they are cheap to replace until you get the lucky trait draw. I think flat, ship class-scaled bonuses would work a lot better. (and perhaps non-zero minimum thresholds before they can be applied at all)


Aside from that, the trait chance for reserved civilian ships is waaaay too high. I've got a fleet full of Legendary tugs, and they're still pulling >100% new trait chance from some battles. I think the multiplier could stand to be dropped down to 15%-20%, and more importantly, I think the trait chance should be clamped to 100% before applying that multiplier.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zhentar on May 04, 2019, 12:58:18 PM
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

There's a weakness with change 4: the order of traits is fixed, so even if it gives you good/bad traits to balance them out, the ones you got first will always be more significant than the ones trying to balance them out (until you push them all up to Legendary, I suppose)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 04, 2019, 01:00:44 PM
Quick a quick check: is the number of traits you can get limited? Because I have a a ship with 2-2-2-4 traits now.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on May 04, 2019, 01:24:42 PM
While basing traits on specific things that happen in battle would be better for the storytelling aspect of things, I think it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to make the gameplay work well.

You mean that when it becomes too granular, there would be incentives to do play in a weird way to get optimal chances at good traits, like all the Elder Scrolls player skill-levelling-by-usage shenanigans?

Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

It would probably be even more frustrating to be punished by the RNG if you know you have a higher chance of getting bad traits after a string of good ones, especially in the endgame portion you mentioned when ideally the player is trying to roll perfect ships. Although knowing you are more likely to get good traits after a string of bad ones would soften the blow.

I'm not sure I can clearly explain my thinking, but:

Overall, your change would work out to roughly similar end results (at max traits, most ships have a list of upsides and downsides), but the in-game experience of playing the game means that you get each trait change one by one, so it feels more like you are getting punished by the RNG when you get a bad trait. Under default .ini settings which players may not look at and hcange, this may be quite frustrating.

I personally like the idea of having fewer traits, but with upsides and downsides, because then it would soften the blow of winning/losing the RNG roll at every step.

If each trait has a hardcoded upside and downside, the upsides and downsides could also be more thematic (although perhaps then each ship will have fewer individual traits):

E.g. "the [HMS Invincible]'s crew is obsessed with gunnery speed, to the extent that they stack ready ammo outside of the magazine and leave anti-flash doors open. +rate of fire, -hull integrity"

And narratively it would feel more like a specialisation or a character quirk. Some traits would be generally good and others generally bad (there would also still be room for purely good/bad traits - perhaps more strongly tied to very good/bad performance?) so you could still assign traits based on the positive performance of the ship, but it would be fuzzier and less a clear cut win/loss when the dice roll doesn't go your way.

Maybe you could actually add supply cost reductions for negative traits? That would make them still permanent D mods, but at least they would come with the same benefits.

That might sometimes be unthematic though, although it might sometimes be very thematic (lazy crew: might get -max CR, supply costs reduced :p !).

Generally, I don't think that bad traits should push towards just being unremovable d-mods, especially if you consider the experience for one-off unique ships, like IBBs/AE Vow/BB Sparrowhawk.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on May 04, 2019, 03:03:41 PM
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions! I'm glad you guys are enjoying it  :D

Avoiding Bad Traits
I've received a LOT of good feedback about this (both here and on Discord), and I've given quite a bit of thought to figuring out how best to improve the system. So here's a rough idea of what I have in mind:
  • Ships that deal enough hull damage in combat will have a reduced chance of getting a bad trait.
  • Ships that take very little hull damage in battle will not get bad defense traits for that battle.
  • Likewise, ships that do enough damage will not get bad weapon traits.
  • Ships will be more likely to get new negative traits the more positive traits they already have, and vice versa.
  • Ships that require crew will be able to get traits, just not ones related to crew (maybe some new AI related ones instead)
I also need to write up a clear and detailed description of how the system works for the FAQ.
[...]
Do you guys think change 4 would do a good job of accomplishing the same goal?

I think the general idea is to make the player feel he has some degree of control over what happens. Just enough so that getting a bad trait results in a "hm, that makes sense for this ship", as opposed to "%$&!( this RNG!". The first trait I got was on a Onslaught XIV that I used to solo a pirate armada taking no damage in the process. The trait I got: -armor. Needless to say it resulted in "load last save". When ships pick up bad traits (which I think they should to avoid massive power creep), they should not be the ones that break the ship completely. I don't know if Combat Analytics could be in integrated into how this mod counts progress, but it can gather quite a lot of data.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 04, 2019, 04:16:11 PM
Doubtful crew and a negative trait on my new flagship I took minor (4%) hull damage in a very large fight after murdering an entire pirate armada. Thats... really rough. The optimal play here is to immediately scrap this ship for supplies, as its of a type that my single colony can make more of. This is despite the fact that I did really well in that battle and now have a bit of an emotional attachment to the ship.

The changes you've proposed are a good start to avoid the extreme annoyance that the current system has, but... I just don't see how bad traits (permanent D mods that cannot be removed) can stay in in the current form.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: solardawning on May 04, 2019, 05:16:53 PM
Maybe make the bad traits like D-mods; have them be able to removed w/high cost at a shipyard, while keeping positive traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 06, 2019, 02:11:44 PM
Ok, so I've still got a lot of work left to do before I can release an update, but I thought I'd let you guys know about the changes so far:
Quote
ADDITIONS
   New trait type: Dutiful/Obstinate Crew - affects chance of improving loyalty.
   Added support for ships with no crew requirement, including renamed crew traits (e.g. "Resilient Automated Systems" instead of "Determined Crew")
   Clicking the ship icon of a reputation change notification will now open up the refit screen for that ship

FIXES
   Fixed trait limit not being applied (by default there should never be more than 2 traits per tier). Existing ships with more than 2 traits per tier should be fixed automatically
   Fixed removal of pre-existing duplicate trait types not working
   Fixed trait effects not applying to ships in storage
   Fixed mothballed ships being able to earn traits
   Corrected spelling of "Volitile Flux Core" to "Volatile Flux Core"

REPUTATION GROWTH CHANGES
   Reworked calculation for chance of getting positive vs negative traits
   Ships that take less than 5% total hull damage in battle will not get a bad defense trait for that battle
   Ships that deal more deployment-cost worth of damage than their own cost-to-deploy will not get a bad offensive trait for that battle
   Civilian ships are now far less likely to gain new traits beyond "Notable" tier
   Normalized loyalty increase chances. It's easier to improve loyalty at low loyalty levels now, but still difficult to get max loyalty

TRAIT BASE EFFECT BALANCE
   Agile/Clunky increased from 1 to 3 (maneuverability)
   Fast/Slow Turret Gyros increased from 3 to 4 (weapon turn rate)
   Robust/Glitchy increased from 2 to 3 (EMP resistance)
   Durable/Fragile Mounts increased from 3 to 4 (weapon durability)
   Durable/Fragile Engines increased from 3 to 4 (engine durability)
   Skilled/Incompetent Engineers increased from 2 to 3 (repair rate)
   Removed Meager Fuel Tanks and Meager Cargo Hold traits, which should automatically be removed from existing games on load
   Changed Ample Fuel Tanks and Ample Cargo Holds to a flat bonus based on hull size


This is the new calculation for the chance of getting positive vs negative traits:

bonusChance = 0.5 + battleDifficulty*0.25 - damageTaken + max(0, damageDealt-1)*0.5
where:
bonusChance is the Chance to get a Good Trait.
(0 means 0%, 1 means 100%)
battleDifficulty is a ratio of total supply deployment cost for both sides (not including ships deployed during pursuit).
(e.g. 1.5 if the enemy spends 12 supplies deploying ships and you spend 8.  12 / 8 = 1.5)
(If Ruthless Sector (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15279.0) is also being used, the Battle Difficulty it calculates will be used instead)

damageTaken is a fraction of total hull integrity.
(e.g. 0.2 for a ship that starts battle with 70% hull and ends with 50%.  0.7 - 0.5 = 0.2)
damage Dealt is deployment-cost worth of hull damage destroyed, divided by the ship's own deployment-cost.
(e.g. 1.5 for a ship that costs 4 supplies to deploy dealing 50% damage to a ship that costs 12 supplies to deploy.  12 * 0.5 / 4 = 1.5)
(max(x, y) means that the lesser of x and y will be chosen.  max(3, 2) = 3)



Change 4
Ships will be more likely to get new negative traits the more positive traits they already have, and vice versa.
You guys brought up some good points about the disadvantages of this change. I'm no longer planning on adding it. I found stormbringer951's argument about how this mechanic would be perceived by players who don't know about it to be particularly compelling. If I can't think of a better way to accomplish similar goals I might add it as an opt-in setting.

Traits with mixed bonuses and maluses
If I were to implement something like this, it would have to be by forcing traits to come in pairs; one good and one bad. Having manually defined bonus/malus combinations with an explanation-story for each one would be very cool, but it would require completely remaking starship legends, and it would take a great deal of time to make enough traits like that to create as much variety in trait combinations as there is now.

Purely bad traits being annoying, scrapping ships because of them, and suggestions to be able to remove them
I know it's annoying to get a debuff on a ship, but I think debuffs (real ones that aren't mitigated by buffs) are absolutely necessary for balancing out the potential power creep made possible by this mod. This mod will always support the option to prevent ships from getting negative traits, but I will always try to balance the default settings in such a way that most ships in the fleet of a player of average skill will be roughly equivalent in power to what they would be with no traits.

While basing traits on specific things that happen in battle would be better for the storytelling aspect of things, I think it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to make the gameplay work well.

You mean that when it becomes too granular, there would be incentives to do play in a weird way to get optimal chances at good traits, like all the Elder Scrolls player skill-levelling-by-usage shenanigans?
Yes, exactly. As well as the time it would take to track all the necessary data (I would basically need to re-implement most of the functionality of Combat Analytics)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 06, 2019, 03:40:54 PM
These changes look really good - I especially like the incorporation of battle difficulty and damage dealt, as this supports getting positive traits with aggressive playstyles.

While I think mixed traits would be the best solution, I do agree that it would be a pretty enormous amount of work!

The issue with perverse incentives and scrapping ships with negative traits is more an issue for the first trait that a ship receives, not so much later ones. This is because: 1) its always the strongest trait, so will keep getting worse. 2) Little experience has been 'sunk' into the ship, so there is very little cost to scrapping in terms of building ships with good perks. 3) The ship is worse than a stock version, so replacing it is a net power upgrade.

Perhaps there could be a tweak to point 1, where which traits become promoted also depends on how things have gone? This introduces further complications, but might help.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ranakastrasz on May 06, 2019, 04:02:56 PM
My views may be warped, and I haven't played seriously in a while, but I don't find ships so trivially cheap and easy to find that you can just scrap a ship and expect to get a new one. Generally cash is too tight for that. Also you can't often find a new ship of the same type, at least for the really good ones you want.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 06, 2019, 04:39:11 PM
My views may be warped, and I haven't played seriously in a while, but I don't find ships so trivially cheap and easy to find that you can just scrap a ship and expect to get a new one. Generally cash is too tight for that. Also you can't often find a new ship of the same type, at least for the really good ones you want.

To be honest its probably my views being warped by colonies and ship costs. I tend to have a colony early, pretty much as soon as I've found one of the three blueprint packs. At that stage of the game I'm still using a lot of destroyers, and replacing one of those is only like 20k-ish depending on model. Especially since you can strip any valuable weapons off the old one before relegating it to non-officered AI duty or sitting in port or scrap.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 07, 2019, 02:46:24 AM
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?

If a tiny ship kills a big one and get "Giantslayer" does it need a +x% bonus damage agaisnt bigger ships? They very fact it has a history of killing bigger ship allready makes it valuable.

It's an interesting question, becasue when you combine all the mods, bonuses, EXP, skilsl and everything, the power creep is very real simple becasue its all adds up.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on May 07, 2019, 10:40:37 AM
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?

If a tiny ship kills a big one and get "Giantslayer" does it need a +x% bonus damage agaisnt bigger ships? They very fact it has a history of killing bigger ship allready makes it valuable.

It's an interesting question, becasue when you combine all the mods, bonuses, EXP, skilsl and everything, the power creep is very real simple becasue its all adds up.
Yes because that would be a "negative trait" in many people's eyes. Hell, many would hate it more due to the fact that they are getting punished, by getting a trait without stat boosts, for doing something hard and succeeding.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 07, 2019, 01:24:28 PM
Thanks for the option of preventing ships from getting bad traits. While some buffs are good, one critical bad trait can make a ship permanently tainted to me, cast into the darkest depths of colonial storage. It might be petty, but I can't helping. Having the perfect officer skills, fleet skills, (lack of) d-mods, hullmods, just to get one bad trait and trip yourself at the finish feels not good. I guess that I will just abstain from using this mod, even though it's a cool idea and implementation is solid.
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?
That sounds like a job for a mod that tracks your ships with some degree of accuracy, not this one. I also suspect that non-statbased traits would defeat the point of this mod as well.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 07, 2019, 07:16:55 PM
The issue with perverse incentives and scrapping ships with negative traits is more an issue for the first trait that a ship receives, not so much later ones. This is because: 1) its always the strongest trait, so will keep getting worse.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this mod and have only been following it via this thread.

An idea to specifically handle this issue with negative traits would be to make the first traits not always the largest, instead picking a random trait to enhance upon ranking up. To do this though, you would have to allow for traits to skip ranks, which may feel too unpredictable. I believe the logic for this would be:

There would definitely still be a point where scrapping the ship is for the best, but it should be after a few more traits are added so that you get a better overall picture of what the ship would/could look like, instead of being sure of its one greatest flaw. A potential downside would be seeing a Paragon that you've been building up for a while have a minor quirk of reduced range turn into legendarily reduced range. Applying similar limitations from choosing new traits to choosing traits to enhance should make this more reasonable for players, but require more data tracking. Without knowing how your code is set up, I would guess that having "normal", "excellentOffence", "excellentDefense", and "excellentOffence/Defense" buckets of XP gained would allow you to track overall success with a ship for the current selection limitations.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SapphireSage on May 07, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
Must everything be stat-based?
Can some titles be simply for fluff/atmosphere?

Although like SCC stated earlier that it would require a mod that's able to keep better track of a ships actions in combat/campaign I certainly would enjoy a mod that gave titles based on actions without buffs/nerfs as it would prevent power creep and even a negative title for my 5 D-mod cannon fodders could be interesting to have in its history if I restored it and give it greater purpose as a reminder of its unfortunate history.

As cool and interesting as this mod is to create more unique story-based ships I do fear about the resulting power creep from giving straight buffs to the player with no compensation to AI.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 07, 2019, 10:07:15 PM
I've received a lot of suggestions about ways to reset/modify/respec traits, so I've been thinking a lot lately about the problems associated with traits being permanent, and trying to figure out a good way to make them more flexible without introducing too much power creep. After hours of pacing, this is what I came up with:
If all goes well, this mechanic would give players agency in 'fixing' their ships without granting too much control over trait outcomes. It would make it possible (although very difficult) to redeem even ships with 8 negative traits. It would also introduce a dynamic element that I think would reflect the reputation theme very well.

Let me know what you guys think.

These changes look really good - I especially like the incorporation of battle difficulty and damage dealt, as this supports getting positive traits with aggressive playstyles.
Ok, I'm glad you think so. I think you've brought up some serious concerns, so it's reassuring that you agree with the changes so far  :)
Battle difficulty is already a factor in the current build, btw. It's just... not well documented.

The issue with perverse incentives and scrapping ships with negative traits is more an issue for the first trait that a ship receives, not so much later ones. This is because: 1) its always the strongest trait, so will keep getting worse. 2) Little experience has been 'sunk' into the ship, so there is very little cost to scrapping in terms of building ships with good perks. 3) The ship is worse than a stock version, so replacing it is a net power upgrade.
So all three of those points are actually by design. Here's my reasoning for thinking they're good things:

Must everything be stat-based?
I'm afraid so, for the reasons stated above, as well as others. I don't think traits would have enough of a point to them without effects. I do think a mod that keeps track of a ship's feats that way would be very cool, but I don't think starship legends is a good fit.

While some buffs are good, one critical bad trait can make a ship permanently tainted to me, cast into the darkest depths of colonial storage. It might be petty, but I can't helping. Having the perfect officer skills, fleet skills, (lack of) d-mods, hullmods, just to get one bad trait and trip yourself at the finish feels not good.
Yeah, I hear you. I know there are people who will hate mechanics that force sub-optimal stats no matter what. This mod can't be for everyone, but I do want to make it work well for as many people as I can (within reason).

@BringerofBabes
First of all; welcome to the forum! :D
I wish I had read your suggestion hours ago. It might've gotten me thinking along the right track. It does seem like a good way to prevent the oldest traits from always being the most significant, but I don't really think that's such a problem to begin with (see my response to Thaago above)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 08, 2019, 03:38:53 PM
I'm kinda torn. On one side I understand people who want everything to be PERFECT.
On the other, perfection is boring and unrealistic. It's like making a D&D character with 18 in every score.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on May 08, 2019, 10:28:27 PM
I'm kinda torn. On one side I understand people who want everything to be PERFECT.
On the other, perfection is boring and unrealistic. It's like making a D&D character with 18 in every score.
If I wanted realism, I'd play a SIM or *gasp* walk outside.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 09, 2019, 12:03:00 AM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 09, 2019, 03:57:24 AM
I'm kinda torn. On one side I understand people who want everything to be PERFECT.
On the other, perfection is boring and unrealistic. It's like making a D&D character with 18 in every score.
If I wanted realism, I'd play a SIM or *gasp* walk outside.

Not an argument.

As much as I understand the desire for everything to be perfect (as my OCD kicks in), I feel that desire is a character flaw that prevents enjoyment of the game, and moves it further away from a challenge and more into a power fantasy.
The idea of a ship and crew without any flaws whatsoever is so Mary Sue-ish.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 09, 2019, 03:31:43 PM
O_O That battle report is a work of art! Bravo!
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Alex on May 09, 2019, 03:57:48 PM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.

Niiice! Awesome to see someone using the "large intel description" functionality :)

Just a few random layout/formatting thoughts, if you don't mind - obviously no obligation to actually do it that way, and it's all minor stuff.

Section headings: for left-aligned ones, I'd add one empty space as a prefix to the text. I think I've done that in places in vanilla, though at this point I'm fairly sure all the section headings are centered.

After a section heading, the standard padding is 10 pixels. Same between paragraphs. (In some cases, vanilla will use a padding of 5 instead; that's generally old code and I'm cleaning it up as I become aware of the various places. One example of this is the various terrain tooltips; I need to go through 'em and fix this up for consistency.)

Between list items, the standard padding is 3.

Occasionally, there's a case where a padding of 10 is too much, and 3 is too little. In that case, a padding of 5 is used. This is usually when there's a line of text describing the contents of an indented list that follows, e.g:
This list has 3 items: <followed by a padding of 5>
     Item 1 <followed by a padding of 3>
     Item 2 <followed by a padding of 3>
     Item 3 <followed by a padding of 10>

BaseIntelPlugin.BULLET and BaseIntelPlugin.INDENT are the standard indentations for list items, if those are needed.

Edit: I should say, I hope this doesn't come across as critical! Just wanted to get the info out there, in case it's helpful.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nick XR on May 09, 2019, 10:56:43 PM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.

Super impressive!  I'd never considered using the Intel screen before to display data.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on May 10, 2019, 04:55:35 AM
This should be an improvement over notifications, particularly for large fleets:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/iUWSlo0.png)
[close]
Pay no mind to the wonky outcomes, I cheated quite a lot win.

Super impressive!  I'd never considered using the Intel screen before to display data.

So, feature request for Combat Analytics? :P
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 10, 2019, 06:28:08 AM
@Thaago, Nick XR: Glad you guys like it  :D

@Alex: That's a lot of very useful information. Thank you! I had a lot of questions about conventions while putting that together, but ran out of time before I could go digging for examples. I shall conform!
So, since we're on the topic, is there any way to arrange a ship list to the left of a paragraph? I've been meaning to experiment with some hackery to try placing two tool tips side by side.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 10, 2019, 09:59:19 AM
Any chance of an option to disable dynamic trait adjustment / getting mixed traits for us powergamers who wanna maximise stats / boosts please!?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Alex on May 10, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
@Alex: That's a lot of very useful information. Thank you! I had a lot of questions about conventions while putting that together, but ran out of time before I could go digging for examples.

Awesome!

So, since we're on the topic, is there any way to arrange a ship list to the left of a paragraph? I've been meaning to experiment with some hackery to try placing two tool tips side by side.

Yeah, that's exactly how I'd do it. In the context of that screen, "tooltip" just basically means "any UI element", so putting it together out of a ton of smaller "tooltips" is an entirely valid approach.

addUIElement() returns a PositionAPI, which you can use to arrange things how you want to. You can also create a custom panel and add it using the addComponent() method, if you want a larger independent grouping of tooltips (roughly equivalent, to, say, a JPanel). But, yeah, tooltips are the basic building block.


But, hmm. This may run into problems when using the thing with a scroller, since scrollers are per-tooltip. What you'd need to do, I think, is this:

Code: java
/* this is the scrolling container */
TooltipMakerAPI outer = panel.createUIElement(width, height, true);

CustomPanelAPI inner = panel.createCustomPanel(width, height, null);
outer.addCustom(inner, 0);

TooltipMakerAPI t1 = inner.createUIElement(width, height, false);
/* do stuff with t1 */
inner.addUIElement(t1);
/* and so on, keeping track of the total height of the stuff added */

outer.getPosition().setSize(width, totalHeight);
/* do this last, since this is where it'll wrap it with a scroller
   based on the height we just set */
panel.addUIElement(outer).inTL(0, 0);

I think that would work. The reason "outer" needs to be a TooltipMakerAPI (instead of a CustomPanelAPI) is that the addUIElement() (which takes a TooltipMakerAPI as a parameter) is currently the only way to wrap stuff in a scroller here. Hope this makes sense! Let me know if you do decide to try this and run into trouble.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: xenoargh on May 11, 2019, 04:17:09 PM
This looks great!  I'll have to give it a whirl as I'm breaking things testing my projects :)
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 11, 2019, 10:11:05 PM
@Alex: Awesome. Thanks again for the help! Looking forward to giving that a shot  :)

Any chance of an option to disable dynamic trait adjustment / getting mixed traits for us powergamers who wanna maximise stats / boosts please!?
The options file is pretty flexible, and it should be getting better after the next update. I want this mod to be very flexible, so hopefully there will be a way to make it fit your playstyle well.

This looks great!  I'll have to give it a whirl as I'm breaking things testing my projects :)
You might want to wait a few days! There are a lot of unreleased improvements that I don't have time to finish up at the moment. I'm hoping to have an update out by next weekend.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 12, 2019, 02:49:20 AM
This is going to become a "required" mod. It's almost a work of art.
Some observations from using 1.0.3 for a few hours:

Combat ships which are routinely deployed get a mix of traits.
Combat frieghters which are sometimes deployed get a mix of traits.
Non-combat ships which are never deployed get mostly negative traits, and they seem to gain them at a similar rate as deployed ships.

Possibly look into having the rate of trait gaining for non-deployed ships vastly reduced.
Doesn't feel good getting a ton of negative campaign modifiers for using a class of ships as intended.
As counter balance, could possibly vastly increase the chance of traits appearing if force-deployed in a pursuit mission, or if CR-burned by hyperspace storms.

-----

Ship tech families seem to behave differently, and I'm not sure if this is intended or not.

High-tech and Midline ships, and all carriers almost always get a mix of traits with more positive than negative as they're either tanking damage on shields or avoiding it altogether.
They also get lots of loyalty boosts due to not taking damage.

Phase ships seem to be all-or-nothing. They either get a roll of mostly positive traits, or mostly negative ones.
And tbh, that actually seems about right for something technologically fickle as these things.
(I have a pirate Shade set up for EMP support and it gets constant 'bad' rolls for everything, and I can't bring myself to get rid of it because it's hillarious.)

Low-tech ships though.... Being an armour tank seems like it's quite disliked by this mod, as constantly taking damage means that traits tend to be more negative.
And crew loyalty sits firmly in the toilet because the ship is designed to take all the punches so nothing else has to. Which is not really helpful as extra CR decay is a hard no for safety override ships when you cannot easily replace them.

Possibly look into having each tech familiy respond to taking damage differently.
High-tech ships - very damage averse, taking damage has good chance to apply negative trait and badly affect crew loyalty.
Midline ships - somewhat damage averse, taking damage has moderate chance to apply negative trait and badly affect crew loyalty.
Low-tech ships - largely indifferent to damage, taking damage has small chance to apply negative trait and badly affect crew loyalty.
Phase ships - current rules

Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DatonKallandor on May 12, 2019, 08:48:05 AM
This is incredible. It's frankly insane how good this is. If it was a thing Starsector did, I'd advocate for Legends or something similar to it to become a standard Starsector feature. It has all the benefits of the old veterancy system (a fleet that becomes better as it fights, with losses reducing that progression, a feeling of having ships be "yours") without the fiddlyness - and a whole load of extra flavor on top.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 12, 2019, 12:22:30 PM
Not knowing what improvements Sundog currently has on deck (this may already be solved!), the damage taken calculation could be based on either damage that has not been mitigated by armor, or based on damage taken vs overall hull available, so that you only get penalized for taking too much of a beating, rather than the beating you were designed to take. Both should scale well with ships that have more shields than armor as well.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Jonlissla on May 12, 2019, 12:26:20 PM
Like others have already said, it's crazy how good this mod fits the game. I'm hoping Alex does something similar to the game.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 12, 2019, 12:34:32 PM
I hope not. There's many enough factors when trying to get optimal performance out of a ship, I don't need a trait popping out of the blue and ruining a crucial stat. I'd much rather have it stay optional.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 12, 2019, 02:31:01 PM
I hope not. There's many enough factors when trying to get optimal performance out of a ship, I don't need a trait popping out of the blue and ruining a crucial stat. I'd much rather have it stay optional.

I'm with this - while I really like this mod and plan on playing with it, I would prefer it stay a mod. Getting good traits is going to be based on difficulty a lot it seems (which I really like), but that means its somewhat new player unfriendly. If I were struggling with combat, it wouldn't be very nice for the game to insult my barely won victory with losses in loyalty and bad traits.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SapphireSage on May 12, 2019, 03:10:04 PM
I hope not. There's many enough factors when trying to get optimal performance out of a ship, I don't need a trait popping out of the blue and ruining a crucial stat. I'd much rather have it stay optional.

I'm with this - while I really like this mod and plan on playing with it, I would prefer it stay a mod. Getting good traits is going to be based on difficulty a lot it seems (which I really like), but that means its somewhat new player unfriendly. If I were struggling with combat, it wouldn't be very nice for the game to insult my barely won victory with losses in loyalty and bad traits.

Thirded, I would not want this in the base game, at least just copied wholesale (Though I wouldn't mind titles for my ships based on performance, just no buffs). Without significant changes to endgame, it would make it even easier still while the potential negatives could make early game harder.

Secondly, officers already do something like this to a lesser extent (since you can steer their level ups and pick their personality, maybe that can be something to help against the RNG for Legends), but officers are optional and limited in scope unless you choose to focus them. With RNG applying to both officers and ships, it would just make the game feel more "all about luck" and less about the full player agency we have now when it comes to the ships and fleet as a whole.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DatonKallandor on May 12, 2019, 05:30:39 PM
I just think the whole "full player agency" is not as desireable as it seems. The endgame of Starsector is entirely solved or solveable. And it's the same, every time. Some RNG, some flavor, is exactly what it needs. Some that makes a player fleet of x ships different from an AI fleet of the same x ships. Personality. The old veterancy system kind of did it - but this is much better than that. The stat boosts are small enough in the early game to not wreck ships anyway - and by the time you get to the big numbers you can easily replace ships if you really insist on being "optimal".

Obviously, a proper vanilla supported implementation of it might smooth the edges down somewhat, but the core is incredible and exactly what Starsector is missing (it's essentially procedural loot, but less fiddly).
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Null Ganymede on May 12, 2019, 08:03:46 PM
Being penalized for doing poorly is pretty consistent with the unforgiving supply/fuel grind new players run into. Compared to that, the performance penalties are minor.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Starship Legends 1.0.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: errorgance on May 13, 2019, 03:03:57 PM
I like the concept, but I must raise my eyebrows at permanent negative effects, that is a serious problem which needs a method of redress, even the dreaded orange bars have a method for repair.
I'd like to see a system for negative reputation/crew moral to improve as well, such as switching out captains (or putting an officer into a ship without one to restore discipline) and/or multiple successful battles where the crews moral can improve.
Title: Re: [0.9a] Starship Legends 1.0.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 14, 2019, 02:32:47 PM
I like the concept, but I must raise my eyebrows at permanent negative effects, that is a serious problem which needs a method of redress, even the dreaded orange bars have a method for repair.
Traits will be less permanent in the next update.

I'd like to see a system for negative reputation/crew moral to improve as well, such as switching out captains (or putting an officer into a ship without one to restore discipline) and/or multiple successful battles where the crews moral can improve.
Loyalty is how morale is represented in this mod, and it does improve or worsen a ship's traits. I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting, but it seems pretty similar (at least in terms of the end result) to this work-in-progress feature (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.msg247896#msg247896).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 14, 2019, 09:23:38 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.0 (BETA)

Fixed an error caused by crew loyalty changes without new traits. The error was introduced in the last patch. Sorry about that!
(This should be compatible with previous saves, but please let me know if you find out otherwise.)

ADDITIONS
   Instead of notifications, a battle report is now created that details all reputation changes from the battle
   A ship's traits can now change positions or even be removed based on how well they perform in combat
   Reputations can now be completely reset by mothballing a ship for 30 consecutive days per trait
   Added 2 new levels of loyalty and reworked the loyalty fluctuation system
   New trait type: Dutiful/Obstinate Crew - affects chance of improving loyalty
   Added support for ships with no crew requirement, including renamed crew traits (e.g. "Cooperative AI Persona" instead of "Dutiful Crew")

FIXES
   Fixed trait limit not being applied (by default there should never be more than 2 traits per tier). Existing ships with more than 2 traits per tier should be fixed automatically
   Ship restoration no longer removes reputation hullmods (fixed by Starsector version 0.9.1a)
   Fixed removal of pre-existing duplicate trait types not working
   Fixed trait effects not applying to ships in storage
   Fixed mothballed ships being able to earn traits
   Fixed issue that occasionally allowed reputation changes to persist after reloading
   Corrected spelling of "Volitile Flux Core" to "Volatile Flux Core"

REPUTATION GROWTH CHANGES
   Reworked calculation for chance of getting positive vs negative traits (see FAQs for the exact formula)
   Ships that take less than 5% total hull damage in battle will not get a bad defense trait for that battle
   Ships that deal more deployment-cost worth of damage than their own cost-to-deploy will not get a bad offensive trait for that battle
   Civilian ships are now far less likely to gain new traits beyond "Notable" tier

TRAIT BASE EFFECT BALANCE
   Agile/Clunky increased from 1 to 3 (maneuverability)
   Durable/Fragile increased from 1 to 2 (hull integrity)
   Fast/Slow Turret Gyros increased from 3 to 4 (weapon turn rate)
   Robust/Glitchy increased from 2 to 3 (EMP resistance)
   Durable/Fragile Mounts increased from 3 to 4 (weapon durability)
   Durable/Fragile Engines increased from 3 to 4 (engine durability)
   Skilled/Incompetent Engineers increased from 2 to 3 (repair rate)
   Removed Meager Fuel Tanks and Meager Cargo Hold traits, which should automatically be removed from existing games on load
   Changed Ample Fuel Tanks and Ample Cargo Holds to a flat bonus based on hull size
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Oblivion on May 14, 2019, 09:56:16 PM
Would this be compatible with 0.9a?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 14, 2019, 10:26:23 PM
Very cool! I'll add it to my next new game and give overly critical responses. :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 14, 2019, 10:34:41 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.1 (BETA)

Fixed an error caused by crew loyalty changes without new traits. The error was introduced in the last patch. Sorry about that!

Fixed issue preventing loss of loyalty in most cases


Would this be compatible with 0.9a?
I think so.

Very cool! I'll add it to my next new game and give overly critical responses. :D
Good!  :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 15, 2019, 05:11:42 AM
Suggestion: Add a 0 OP hull mod to flag ships to keep reputation while mothballed, call it "Museum Ship" or something.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2019, 01:00:29 PM
Suggestion: Add a 0 OP hull mod to flag ships to keep reputation while mothballed, call it "Museum Ship" or something.
So one of the changes between 0.9 and 0.9.1 is that you can put ships in storage without mothballing them, allowing you to store a ship for any length of time without resetting its reputation. Because of this, I don't think such a flag is necessary.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2019, 03:00:43 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.2 (BETA)

Fixed failure to properly handle some unconventional battles (automated defenses, stations, scripted events, etc.)
Added a description of what a trait does in the notes section of battle reports when a new trait is gained
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on May 15, 2019, 03:38:30 PM
So one of the changes between 0.9 and 0.9.1 is that you can put ships in storage without mothballing them, allowing you to store a ship for any length of time without resetting its reputation. Because of this, I don't think such a flag is necessary.

Oh, huh, I must have missed that one.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 15, 2019, 11:43:19 PM
"A ship's traits can now change positions or even be removed based on how well they perform in combat"

Is there an option to disable / adjust likelihood of this in settings at all?
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 16, 2019, 01:16:44 AM
Being penalized for doing poorly is pretty consistent with the unforgiving supply/fuel grind new players run into. Compared to that, the performance penalties are minor.

This. Laste game fleets guzzle so much supplies and fuel, that a planet cannot provide for them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SafariJohn on May 16, 2019, 06:20:18 AM
This is a very cool mod.

I wanted to check out your after battle report code, but unfortunately you haven't included your source code and your repository is out of date.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 16, 2019, 07:32:31 AM
Really impressed with your take on 'feature' mods. Keep doing what you're doing.

I noticed carriers show up as 0% damage dealt a lot. Are fighters factored into the equation and just not shown?

Edit: Found a small bug. See attached screenshot. My 3 Paragons apparently inflicted no damage even though they were the only participants.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/1xU3cEK.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 16, 2019, 01:17:25 PM
"A ship's traits can now change positions or even be removed based on how well they perform in combat"

Is there an option to disable / adjust likelihood of this in settings at all?
Nope, but that's a good idea. I'll add it to the next release.

I wanted to check out your after battle report code, but unfortunately you haven't included your source code and your repository is out of date.
Just updated it. Sorry about that! I'll have to add that to my update checklist.

Really impressed with your take on 'feature' mods. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thanks, I plan to! Although my next project is likely to be a much smaller, higher quality version of my old faction mod, rather than another feature mod.

I noticed carriers show up as 0% damage dealt a lot. Are fighters factored into the equation and just not shown?
At one point I had fighter damage being attributed to their carriers, but I guess I must've broken it. I saw my condor's bombers hit hull in my last battle, but the report is showing 0% damage dealt. It ended up with a negative trait too, dammit...

Edit: Found a small bug. See attached screenshot. My 3 Paragons apparently inflicted no damage even though they were the only participants.
Well that's no good. Thanks for the report.
Was this using starship legends 1.1.2?
Was it a scripted battle, like the red planet encounter or tech cache?
Was there anything else that might've been unusual about that battle?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 16, 2019, 03:29:56 PM
Yeah, using version 1.1.2.

It was a regular battle against a high-level Remnant fleet. It's happened once or twice since against other fleets too. Once against a fleeing pirate fleet that I pursued.

I also noticed after combat that my two Afflictors showed 2% and -2% sustained, respectively.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 16, 2019, 11:10:54 PM
New Known Issues:
I'm hoping to get these both fixed soon. Hopefully tomorrow!

I also noticed after combat that my two Afflictors showed 2% and -2% sustained, respectively.
Hmm. Were they deployed? Sustained damage is checked by comparing hull level before and after a battle, so it might be possible for a ship to have "negative damage" if it's being repaired.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 17, 2019, 01:48:26 AM
I think they were, but I'll wait and see if it happens again.

Edit: Can confirm that in a battle vs. a pirate station, even though I let the game end combat instead of going by the menu, none of my ships were awarded any damage inflicted.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 17, 2019, 02:24:10 PM
Can confirm the bug with damage dealt - making my way through the tutorial and so far none of the fights have any damage reported as being done.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 17, 2019, 06:59:53 PM
Edit: Can confirm that in a battle vs. a pirate station, even though I let the game end combat instead of going by the menu, none of my ships were awarded any damage inflicted.
Ok. I'm going to have rework how the script decides when to figure out how much damage was dealt anyway, so hopefully that fix will address that issue as well (fingers crossed it won't cause any new issues).

Can confirm the bug with damage dealt - making my way through the tutorial and so far none of the fights have any damage reported as being done.
Wait, so are you getting damage reports in the tutorial at all? In my testing they didn't show up. I assumed all intel notifications were suppressed during the tutorial.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 17, 2019, 07:56:53 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.3 (BETA)

Fixed occasional failure to record damage dealt after battle
Fixed failure to credit carriers with the damage dealt by their fighters
Fixed an error that would sometimes occur when a ship's reputation was cleared
Added setting - traitPositionChangeChanceMultiplier
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 17, 2019, 11:53:46 PM
Thanks so much for catering to us powergamers Sun!!!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 18, 2019, 05:24:46 AM
Everything is working well so far.

I was wondering.. since ships can lose a positive trait as result of bad performance instead of gaining a negative trait, could ships lose a negative trait for good performance? I have some phase ships that I've been grooming with massive damage output but they never seem to be able to lose the one negative trait each of them have.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 18, 2019, 07:53:13 AM
Thanks so much for catering to us powergamers Sun!!!  ;D
:D

Everything is working well so far.
That's a relief! Fixing the problem with damage dealt by fighters took far longer than I would've liked...

I was wondering.. since ships can lose a positive trait as result of bad performance instead of gaining a negative trait, could ships lose a negative trait for good performance?
Yes they can. I just added an entry to the FAQs about how trait prominence changes work.
Spoiler
How do I improve loyalty?
Loyalty is based on the bonus chance calculation.
If it is above 0.5, loyalty might increase, otherwise, it might decrease.
The further the bonus chance is from 0.5, the higher the likelihood that it will change.

When do traits change in prominence?
The chance of trait position changes is calculated the same way as loyalty (see above).
A ship needs at least 3 traits for prominence changes to be possible.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 18, 2019, 07:57:30 AM
The coolness of this mod has overmastered my capability to overstate.  Adding to game start.

I do tend to keep individual ships a long time in my fleets...even with d-mods.  I cannot wait to see what this does to my choice of keeping ships.

Dreaming:  Now, if the "combat chatter" mod would somehow synergize with this mod:  such that a given ship chatter would match up with what that ship's crew/captain likely would likely say...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.3 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 18, 2019, 08:20:02 AM
It'll be a buff if you win your engagements, but destroyed and repaired ships get bad traits far easier than you can get rid of them.
My custom settings which probably make things a little easier:

Code
"bonusChanceRandomness":0,
"traitChanceMultiplierForReservedCivilianShips":0.0,

Yes they can. I just added an entry to the FAQs about how trait prominence changes work.

Sweet. I'll have to work a little harder then.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 18, 2019, 08:55:54 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.4 (BETA)

Fixes a (harmless) error caused by harrying a fleet without engaging (and possibly other, similar, situations)


@eidolad: Thanks! Hope you like it. That would be a pretty cool integration with Combat Chatter.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 19, 2019, 02:19:55 AM
Anyone know what setting i would need to adjust to have each trait given be its best version so as to avoid +4% armour for 1 ship & +7% for another?

Many thanks
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 19, 2019, 04:33:12 AM
I would guess you have to set "effectMultiplier":10, on every tier.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 19, 2019, 05:25:24 AM
ah much appreciated schwartz, will giv tht a try.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 19, 2019, 07:25:41 AM
Known Issue: Damage still isn't always being recorded correctly. I need to do more testing to confirm, but it looks like damage is only awarded against recoverable enemy ships. I think this was introduced in the 1.1.3 patch due to the new way of detecting the end of battles. I'm hoping to get a patch out today.

Anyone know what setting i would need to adjust to have each trait given be its best version so as to avoid +4% armour for 1 ship & +7% for another?
Schwartz is correct. Trait effectiveness is also modified by officer loyalty. If you don't want it to be, you can set
the "trait_adjustment" column to 0 for each row in "/sun_sl/data/loyalty_levels.csv"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Ali on May 19, 2019, 11:46:19 AM
Many thanks for makin this so end user adjustable!!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 19, 2019, 12:49:23 PM
As hard as I try, I can't get the negative traits to go away or even lessen in significance even though I have been diligent about only using these Afflictors when they can grab a solid plus.

On top of that, the negative trait has crept its way up the ladder without me ever having gotten a post-combat notification mentioning it. It's always another trait that gets buffed, yet this one has definitely moved as well. Is this working as intended? I.e. the negative trait was on 'well-known' level before I put the Afflictor aside and started only using it for bountiful chase scenarios. It should have only gotten better since then, but the trait got worse. This is with 0 randomness.

I'm not complaining if this is how it works, it just struck me as odd.

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/UJLmBLE.png)
[close]

Come to think of it.. I've had situations where the post-combat log says trait X has improved, but when I look at the ship trait X is still on 'notable'. Edit: Caught it!

Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/zwpKsKK.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 19, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
Many thanks for makin this so end user adjustable!!  ;D
You bet  :)
There have been plenty of times that I've been petty enough to shelve a mod or game just because there was one aspect of it that I couldn't "fix."

@Schwartz: So the way trait prominence changes work is basically by making the chosen trait swap places with one immediately above or below it, regardless of tier. So your overclocked targeting unit example would be working as intended if it was on the very bottom of the trait list before the prominence change. As for your Afflictor, negative traits can move up because positive ones move down, but that wouldn't apply here if it hasn't had any bad prominence changes. The only thing that would bump up that negative trait in that case is the addition of new traits. I'll pay closer attention while play-testing to see if I can catch a trait in the act of not doing what it says it's doing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 19, 2019, 05:31:39 PM
Yeah, the Afflictor has had 8 traits for a long time and the negative trait has moved up. So unless the trait right above it went down a level instead, I would have to have read about the negative trait being promoted.

Alright, I think I get how this works now. It's just a list of eight separated into groups of two. So doing well over a longer period of time should eventually replace all negative traits downward. It's a pretty neat system.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ArthropodOfDoom on May 19, 2019, 10:12:14 PM
There's something funky going on with the way damage is awarded after a single REDACTED station battle, I just defeated one with a fleet of four each Apogees, Atlases, and Herons, and I saw 438% damage awarded to a single Heron, although every ship obviously contributed. Let me know what you would like me to upload to help debug, although I do have ~10 other mods.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 20, 2019, 07:19:33 AM
It's just a list of eight separated into groups of two. So doing well over a longer period of time should eventually replace all negative traits downward.
Yep, exactly. Any ship that gets a bonusChance above 45% should have zero chance for a bad trait adjustment.

Let me know what you would like me to upload to help debug, although I do have ~10 other mods.
If I could get your log file (or the last few hundred lines of it from right after that fight) and a screenshot of your battle report it would be a great help. The cause of these damage reporting issues has proven to be pretty difficult to pin down...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Histidine on May 20, 2019, 08:31:01 AM
Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 20, 2019, 08:51:47 AM
It's not peak performance time, so.. I find even with a fiercely loyal crew the CR loss feels fast enough that I don't push my luck.

And generally when you do well and you only gather positive traits, they are overall quite powerful. It's not this specific one. I'd argue a legendary-level peak performane time boost is way better than crew level.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 20, 2019, 09:47:56 AM
How much do you all think starship legends (with default settings) affects the overall game difficulty for a player of average skill? I know that's hard to estimate considering how many of us are vets, but I'm just trying to get a better general idea.

Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Yeah, I think perhaps it is. I think I'll reduce it from 75% to 50%, which would double instead of quadruple operational time after PPT. It's supposed to be hard to get max loyalty. I think I'll also adjust loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference.

It's not peak performance time, so.. I find even with a fiercely loyal crew the CR loss feels fast enough that I don't push my luck.

And generally when you do well and you only gather positive traits, they are overall quite powerful. It's not this specific one. I'd argue a legendary-level peak performane time boost is way better than crew level.
I tend to think of PPT as more important than CR decay as well, which is part of how I justify high CR adjustments for loyalty. With the current settings, however, the operational time after PPT at "fiercely loyal" is double that of "loyal," which I think is a bit excessive.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 20, 2019, 10:15:34 AM
The problem is that skill is hard to quantify in a game where you can savescum. Let's assume the player is not a masochist and likes to win his engagements. Let's also assume that he can take the occasional friendly ship blowing up since in this version money comes easily and redoing fights is tedious.

This mod unfortunately has the side effect of long-lasting negatives applying to ship losses. It makes savescumming more attractive again. Whether people do that or not, well.. up to them.

On default settings it's probably a toss-up. I had a big fleet and fought a small skirmish with just a few frigates. Afterwards there were a bunch of negatives handed out for reserved ships. This turned me off of a few settings which I changed. If I had not changed them, I think positives and negatives would end up being heavily tilted towards random. The mod incentivizes having all ships be combat-able, and using all ships in your fleet for fear of reserves being struck by bad RNG.

If it was up to me, I'd make these settings the default:

Trait chance multiplier for all reserved ships: 0
Bonus chance randomness: Heavily reduced from 0.5 to maybe 0.1-0.2
I would also reduce the magnitude of all traits on all levels to about half of what it is now. The outliers currently are either very strong buffs or very strong nerfs, neither of which I think are desirable for a system that is largely based on reputation & psychology. If fights are too easy, you get bored. If your fleet is screwed, you don't need to get screwed harder. ;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.4 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 20, 2019, 10:42:08 AM
Quote
Is the CR decay rate reduction from loyalty perhaps too good? -75% at 'fiercely loyal' means ships can stay up past their bedtime PPT seemingly indefinitely, and it's not as if high loyalty is particularly hard to get.
Yeah, I think perhaps it is. I think I'll reduce it from 75% to 50%, which would double instead of quadruple operational time after PPT. It's supposed to be hard to get max loyalty. I think I'll also adjust loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference.

I think this is a good change - 75% on top of Hardened Subsystems makes SO ships that exceed their PPT have quite a long lifetime. Not crazy, but its noticeable and perhaps too welcome.

Feedback: I dearly love the ability to not mind taking hull damage as long as I murderate the enemy enough. My crew apparently are rather bloodthirsty.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 20, 2019, 10:45:26 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.5 (BETA)

Fixed Field Repairs 1 and 2 affecting the calculation of sustained damage
Fixed friendly fire to player ships being counted as dealt damage
Fixed damage against some enemy ships not being recorded (hopefully)
The battle report now lists loyalty levels (in gray) even when there was no change in loyalty
Reduced effect multipliers for all trait tiers:
   Notable    4 -> 3
   Well-known    6 -> 4
   Famous    8 -> 5
   Legendary    10 -> 6
Trait effect multiplier for Fiercly Loyal reduced from 3 to 2
Trait effect multiplier for Openly Insubordinate increased from -3 to -2
Adjusted loyalty change values to have a higher tendency toward indifference
Adjusted CR decay rate effects from loyalty:
   Openly Insubordinate 75 -> 100
   Insubordinate    50 -> 50
   Doubtful    25 -> 25
   Indifferent    0 -> 0
   Confident    -25 -> -20
   Loyal    -50 -> -35
   Fiercely Loyal    -75 -> -50
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 21, 2019, 01:34:16 PM
This version feels more balanced for sure. I still shouldn't talk since I use it with RNG off, oh well. ;)

Still getting the odd situation where damage is not being recorded. This was a station battle with 3 Doom vs a pirate station. All 3 did a decent amount of damage, but only one (flagship) is shown.
(https://i.imgur.com/VrsOgmq.png)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 02:22:58 PM
Glad to hear that it feels more balanced. It's a shame the damage recording bug is still a thing. Thanks for letting me know. Think you could send me a log file including that battle?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 21, 2019, 03:40:56 PM
This should be the entire battle.

Spoiler
Code
7065729 [Thread-4] INFO  org.histidine.chatter.combat.ChatterCombatPlugin  - Chatter plugin initialized
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - broadsword - 6e93b635-2acd-46ad-95d8-5d689e001a0d - 0df439e4-e448-4cbe-81a7-3cbf4937846f
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - 9f05e777-22ff-475f-93bc-2d346be593e8 - 0df439e4-e448-4cbe-81a7-3cbf4937846f
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - c06e40ee-3f41-44a6-8762-6cb45135606a - 300a2600-bf87-4872-8cfc-10568127abe5
7070669 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - piranha - 3e6286b8-1558-4b13-b52b-c735eebd4ae9 - 300a2600-bf87-4872-8cfc-10568127abe5
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by module_large2_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by piranha (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by module_large1_lowtech (1)
      module_large1_lowtech dealt 1115.9482/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 128.24675/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 1064.6503/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 10079.759/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 6134.0225/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 5471.8047/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 7389.35/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 40000.0/40000.0 damage to station1 (1)
      Total FP worth of damage: 50.0
7142677 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CombatPlugin  - Damage dealt by doom (0)
      doom dealt 3737.7083/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 2347.597/10000.0 damage to module_large2_lowtech (1)
      doom dealt 2530.891/20000.0 damage to module_large1_lowtech (1)
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Peekaboo (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 1.4285715 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - FAILED
    Chance to Shuffle a Trait Better: 25% - SUCCEEDED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Virbius (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 0.0 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - SUCCEEDED
    Bonus Chance: 64% - SUCCEEDED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Memory Of Mairaath (Doom)
    Battle Difficulty: 0.5904762
    Damage Taken: 0.0 of total hull lost
    Damage Dealt: 0.0 of own supply cost worth of damage
    Chance of Gaining New Trait: 5% - FAILED
    Chance to Shuffle a Trait Better: 14% - FAILED
7154522 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Honduras (Heron)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Roger Moore (Heron)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Augustus (Dominator (XIV))FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Foundation (Apogee)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Longinus (Eagle (XIV))FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Raptor (Drover)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Hive (Drover)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Prosperity (Sunder)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Angkor Wat (Sunder)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Bloodhound (Afflictor)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Argyle (Afflictor)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Hungry Raven (Colossus)FAILED
7154523 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - Rolling reputation for AVR Marmite (Phaeton)FAILED
7154525 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bases.PirateBaseIntel  - Removing pirate base at [Penelope's Star Star System]
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
Awesome. Thank you! That log turned out to be very enlightening. It looks like this is actually an entirely different issue related to stations (and other ships with multiple parts). Damage to the sections was uncounted because the API (sensibly) says they cost 0 supplies to deploy. Your flagship got all the credit because it landed the killing blow.

Feedback: I dearly love the ability to not mind taking hull damage as long as I murderate the enemy enough. My crew apparently are rather bloodthirsty.
Glad to hear it! I was worried that I had made the damage bonus too low for NPC ships to take advantage of.

This mod unfortunately has the side effect of long-lasting negatives applying to ship losses. It makes savescumming more attractive again. Whether people do that or not, well.. up to them.
Yeah, absolutely. The addition of the anti-save-scum mechanic to ruthless sector was actually in response to Meso bringing up that same concern.

The mod incentivizes having all ships be combat-able, and using all ships in your fleet for fear of reserves being struck by bad RNG.
Negative traits on logistics ships doesn't seem like something so worthy of fear to me. They tend to be fairly insignificant, and replacing logistics ships tends to be cheap. If a freighter ends up with fuel guzzler or something you can always sell it off or mothball it to reset it's reputation. The advantage of eventually ending up with a replacement that has a good reputation seems more than worth it to me.

Bonus chance randomness: Heavily reduced from 0.5 to maybe 0.1-0.2
I think the current system is too easy to game without a decent amount of randomness, but I see where you're coming from. I think RNG can be really fun sometimes, but often it's used as a crutch, and I think that's the case with how starship legends handles the bonus/malus rolls. I think I have a way to make the whole system more satisfying while improving on other aspects of the mod that I find lacking. I need to think through it a little more first, but I'll probably post about it here soon.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 06:15:33 PM
Yet Another Planned Change to How the Mod Decides if a Trait is Good or Bad
Every ship will have a persistent combat rating that affects the ratio of good to bad traits.
With a combat rating of 0%, a ship would have nothing but bad traits. With 100%, all traits would be good.
Traits would gradually shift to have a good/bad ratio equal to the rating of the ship.
Ships would get a combat rating for each battle they participate in, which would be calculated the same way bonus chance currently is.
Combat rating for battles would adjust the ship's persistent rating based on how much xp the battle awarded.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 21, 2019, 06:50:04 PM
So the difference I see is that currently, there is no advantage to pushing your performance beyond a certain point. That point being the cutoff of RNG. So if RNG is set to 1.0 and your damage dealt exceeds the equivalent of 1.01 points, you're guaranteed not to get a negative trait. Then further up there's a point where you're guaranteed a positive trait.

With the change, all ships will compete as damage dealers all the time. It's likely that most fleet ships will not get a 100% track record but settle at a point with a few negative traits. Also likely that the flagship will get 100%. This could work out okay. Edit: One positive I forgot. This'll encourage deploying less ships to get higher scores. On the condition that reserve ships don't get graded.

What you're losing is the immediate feedback of a positive shift for a battle well fought and a negative shift for a screw-up. You kinda get them, but accounted for with an average score that moves slowly over a period of time.

It could end up being more forgiving, and in a fully buffed legendary ship there's little point in the shifting around of traits except for a bit of gambling fun to see the best traits move up anyway.

So there's some advantages, some disadvantages. As the mod strives to become more fair overall, we see it also distance itself a bit from the 'fun' ideal of.. "I saw one of my allies take a risk and take out a tough foe, now it's got determined crew and an armor bonus." Or "I decloaked right into a barrage and now my crew thinks the phase coil's busted." Moments of excellence are very hard to quantify by algorithm.

I'd say go for it, but keep the current algorithm on standby in case it doesn't play out. I'm quite happy with it as it is, and with the various variables exposed in the .ini there's a lot of room for customization.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2019, 09:43:11 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.6 (BETA)

Fixed failure to credit carriers with the damage dealt by their fighters (again)
[This was reintroduced in the last patch]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DrakonST on May 22, 2019, 02:44:20 AM
When it be moved to "Mods"?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Hussar on May 22, 2019, 03:55:12 AM
When it be moved to "Mods"?

An excellent question.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: frozentoes on May 22, 2019, 08:07:12 AM
Every ship will have a persistent combat rating that affects the ratio of good to bad traits.

If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.5 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 22, 2019, 01:39:39 PM
What you're losing is the immediate feedback of a positive shift for a battle well fought and a negative shift for a screw-up. You kinda get them, but accounted for with an average score that moves slowly over a period of time.
True, but that immediacy (in conjunction with RNG) has some serious downsides. If a ship does well in a large battle without getting a good trait, but then gets a bad trait in the next battle due to sub-par performance, it could be pretty frustrating. With the rating system, immediate feedback would be in the form of adjustments to a ships rating (which would be shown in battle reports).

As the mod strives to become more fair overall, we see it also distance itself a bit from the 'fun' ideal of.. "I saw one of my allies take a risk and take out a tough foe, now it's got determined crew and an armor bonus." Or "I decloaked right into a barrage and now my crew thinks the phase coil's busted." Moments of excellence are very hard to quantify by algorithm.
True, and that's a good point that I hadn't considered. The RNG of the current system reflects the fickleness of gossip, but this system wouldn't do that so well. I think the relationship between combat rating and traits would be under-the-hood enough not to completely subvert that impression.

I'd say go for it, but keep the current algorithm on standby in case it doesn't play out.
Oh, for sure. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to keep the current system as a setting.

When it be moved to "Mods"?

An excellent question.
I'll request that it be moved to the Mods subforum (and I'll stop calling it a BETA) once I'm fairly confident that the design goals have been met and that all bugs of any significance have been fixed. Basically, once its core features are "done."

If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
That sounds like it might actually be exactly what I had in mind:
new_persistent_rating = old_persistent_rating * 0.9 + battle_rating * 0.1
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Hussar on May 22, 2019, 04:00:47 PM
If you do this, please consider some sort of 'decay' of old reputation. Even if it's just an option that takes the old rating and multiplies by 0.9 or 0.95 before factoring in the newest reputation. It would be nice to know that a couple bad battles early isn't going to doom your ship to have negatives forever. Give people a reason to hang on to old craft. :D
That sounds like it might actually be exactly what I had in mind:
new_persistent_rating = old_persistent_rating * 0.9 + battle_rating * 0.1

Could this perhaps be tied to fleet performance too? I mean, it is possible to loose bad traits (https://i.imgur.com/AjLWYWE.png), it is however quite hard thing to do for an dedicated PD escorts? So perhaps victories in hard battles could influence that even if the pd boat iteself haven't really did much damage? Unless shooting down missles and fightercraft is counted towards that already?

I'll request that it be moved to the Mods subforum (and I'll stop calling it a BETA) once I'm fairly confident that the design goals have been met and that all bugs of any significance have been fixed. Basically, once its core features are "done."
I respect that :P
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tartiflette on May 23, 2019, 10:08:59 AM
I'm starting to think traits should have some common meta effect, so that cumulating both negative and positive traits contributes toward the same meta effect.

What I'm thinking about is for them to amplify relationship changes: you have a fleet of legendary ships, all relationship changes are increased (especially negative ones) because your fleet is so well known.

It would also naturaly makes transponder off less effective for obvious reasons. On the flip side great deeds could get rewarded even more especially when joining an ungoing battle to save a fleet or when attacking a market.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 23, 2019, 02:22:55 PM
Could this perhaps be tied to fleet performance too? I mean, it is possible to loose bad traits (https://i.imgur.com/AjLWYWE.png), it is however quite hard thing to do for an dedicated PD escorts? So perhaps victories in hard battles could influence that even if the pd boat iteself haven't really did much damage? Unless shooting down missles and fightercraft is counted towards that already?
So this reasoning is why battle difficulty contributes to bonus chance and there's a threshold before damage dealt counts. Battle difficulty basically awards "participation points" to every ship, no matter what role it fills (like PD, which isn't tracked). Damage dealers only earn extra if they go above and beyond. It's certainly not a perfect way to calculate how effective a ship was during battle, but I don't think it has any significant downsides.

I'm starting to think traits should have some common meta effect, so that cumulating both negative and positive traits contributes toward the same meta effect.

What I'm thinking about is for them to amplify relationship changes: you have a fleet of legendary ships, all relationship changes are increased (especially negative ones) because your fleet is so well known.

It would also naturaly makes transponder off less effective for obvious reasons. On the flip side great deeds could get rewarded even more especially when joining an ungoing battle to save a fleet or when attacking a market.
That would certainly make a lot of sense. If you wanted to pretend to be someone else I'd imagine one of the best ways to do so would be to use a completely different fleet. On the other hand, this mechanic might be difficult to relay in-game, and I'm having a hard time thinking of ways it would improve gameplay, other than the potential to occasionally encourage diversity in fleet compositions.
Another concern I have is that I would need to overwrite all the vanilla code dealing with relations changes, which would be pretty messy. Do you know if there are any more straightforward ways to adjust relationship influence?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 24, 2019, 12:08:32 AM
Run SetRelationship faction (currentRelationship+bonus) after battles/events when applicable?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 24, 2019, 06:22:14 AM
Yeah, changing relationships is easy. The difficulty would be overriding vanilla behavior in most places where relationships are changed.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: DrakonST on May 24, 2019, 06:30:12 AM
Need to do danger multiplier for player fleet based on how much legendary ships have player. I mean not NPC danger level, i mean danger level of player fleet what see NPC when atacking player.

It can cut stupid situations on endgame when i as player have 5 legendary Conquests what can exterminate any fleet on sector but i has been atacked by some stupid pirates(in such situations and just do "nuke" command, hate boring battles when you know what you do with enemy). No one will want atack a most angry fleet on sector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 24, 2019, 01:52:20 PM
Yeah, changing relationships is easy. The difficulty would be overriding vanilla behavior in most places where relationships are changed.

But do you have to?
Copy all of the relation values to your own variables and do compares after actions, then add a bonus and save the new value (to both).
If you want to double the value of each interaction:

my_hemegomony_rel = hegemony_rel
hemegomony_rel = hegemony_rel + (hegemony_rel - my_hegemony_rel)*2
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Obsidian Actual on May 25, 2019, 12:31:43 AM
(Not sure if this has been bought up before.)

Using the amount of hull integrity lost during combat as a performance metric is a neat idea.
But what about, say, ships purposely designed to eschew shields in exchange for regenerating hull/armor as a form of defense?

Granted, such ships are rare enough (at least in the current Modiverse), but having Starship Legends running does make me think twice about splurging on a BRDY Imaginos (or even an SWP Excelsior) when faced with the prospect of unavoidable negative traits. :'(

Any chance in the far future of some sort of mechanic to "exclude" certain ships from gaining trait hullmods (both positive & negative) without having to uninstall Starship Legends? A whitelist, perhaps?

(Other than that... thanks for this awesome mod, Sundog. Earning buffs via trait hullmods is helping me kick my ConsoleCommands cheating habit :P)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 25, 2019, 03:05:59 AM
I got curious and went to check. I've messed with console commands and devmode, mainly to be able to fight any fleets/stations I want immediately, and somehow got records of damage received and dealt completely zeroed. It also appears that if you fight a station with just an Excelsior, then retreat, it doesn't count the damage dealt at all.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/qtlKuRz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6EX7tNO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IZPF939.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oMxm2cA.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 25, 2019, 11:03:19 PM
Need to do danger multiplier for player fleet based on how much legendary ships have player. I mean not NPC danger level, i mean danger level of player fleet what see NPC when atacking player.

It can cut stupid situations on endgame when i as player have 5 legendary Conquests what can exterminate any fleet on sector but i has been atacked by some stupid pirates(in such situations and just do "nuke" command, hate boring battles when you know what you do with enemy). No one will want atack a most angry fleet on sector.
That might work. I would have to give it some thought. Alterations to fleet AI isn't quite within the purview of this mod, and some people get annoyed with having to run down fleets that run away. I don't know how feasible a change like that would be from a technical perspective either.

Copy all of the relation values to your own variables and do compares after actions, then add a bonus and save the new value (to both).
Yes, monitoring relations and adjusting them based on existing changes would work, but it wouldn't result in a good user experience because the actual changes would be different from what the notifications say. To do it properly, I would have to either fix the vanilla relation change notifications, or suppress and replace them.

But what about, say, ships purposely designed to eschew shields in exchange for regenerating hull/armor as a form of defense?
My opinion on this is basically "defense is defense," be it from shields, PD, cloak, armor, speed, firepower, ship systems, or anything else that helps the ship avoid taking hull damage. Regenerating hull, on the other hand, is something that isn't handled well by this system at all. I'll have to think about ways to handle that. I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken."

Any chance in the far future of some sort of mechanic to "exclude" certain ships from gaining trait hullmods (both positive & negative) without having to uninstall Starship Legends? A whitelist, perhaps?
A blacklist is more likely, but I want to try to figure something out that's not quite so heavy-handed.

(Other than that... thanks for this awesome mod, Sundog. Earning buffs via trait hullmods is helping me kick my ConsoleCommands cheating habit :P)
You're quite welcome  :)
I should warn you; I'm planning to add console commands to manipulate reputations at some point.

I got curious and went to check. I've messed with console commands and devmode, mainly to be able to fight any fleets/stations I want immediately, and somehow got records of damage received and dealt completely zeroed. It also appears that if you fight a station with just an Excelsior, then retreat, it doesn't count the damage dealt at all.
Thanks for the info! Were these battles all against a lone station? The current version doesn't handle damage dealt to stations (and multi-part ships) well at all, due to how the game records hull damage (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15483.msg249742#msg249742) (basically, the final blow awards 100% damage). Fixing the handling of station damage is one of my main focuses for the next release, and I'm pretty sure this aspect of it is already fixed in the dev build.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 26, 2019, 12:25:50 AM
Thanks for the info! Were these battles all against a lone station? The current version doesn't handle damage dealt to stations (and multi-part ships) well at all, due to how the game records hull damage (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15483.msg249742#msg249742) (basically, the final blow awards 100% damage). Fixing the handling of station damage is one of my main focuses for the next release, and I'm pretty sure this aspect of it is already fixed in the dev build.
I think that in a couple of battles there were ships supporting the station and I think it didn't count damage dealt to them at all. I can go and check it again, but I think the issue with station damage prevented the whole thing from working properly anyway. Also, what about the "records go 0% everywhere" thing? Is it supposed to work like that?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Obsidian Actual on May 26, 2019, 02:15:04 AM
... I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken." ...

Hmm, that alone might work.

Then again, a composite of "lowest hull level reached" AND "total hull damage taken" would probably make more sense (balance-wise?).

Don't know how to summarize my reasons exactly... but say for example a self-repairing frigate survives a single protracted engagement where their lowest hull level reached was around 40% of their maximum hull; however, if this was the result of them repeatedly tanking shots (and then falling back to regenerate) to the point where they've cumulatively "sustained" enough damage that would normally destroy them -- I don't know, eight times over (800% hull)? -- I doubt the crew (or AI) onboard would see this as symptomatic of a "skilled" captain. One that relies almost solely on the self-regenerating ability to survive, instead of decent helmsman-ship and/or application of firepower.

Just my two cents. Off the top of my head, I don't have any good ratios or multipliers for if a composite formula is implemented.


I should warn you; I'm planning to add console commands to manipulate reputations at some point.

TWO DAYS
I WAS MERELY TWO DAYS AWAY FROM COMPLETING REHAB ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 26, 2019, 01:41:15 PM
I would really like to know when a ship's performance is zeroed, to avoid things like these in the future... It was a tough fight and I had to re-engage two times.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/88rKT0K.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 26, 2019, 02:01:34 PM
I would really like to know when a ship's performance is zeroed, to avoid things like these in the future... It was a tough fight and I had to re-engage two times.
Sorry about that! Damage won't be recorded for engagements you retreat from. I just fixed it in the dev build today. I'm working on getting a patch out with a few other fixes.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 12:02:00 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.7 (BETA)

A ship's balance of good/bad traits is now determined by it's combat rating, with only a small amount of RNG
     See "What does combat rating do?" in the FAQs for details.
     To switch back to the old system, set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Fixed hull damage not being recorded after a full retreat (by the player)
Fixed an issue that would occasionally cause battle difficulty to be 0%
Fixed credit for damage dealt to sub-sections of stations and multi-section ships not being distributed properly
Fixed multi-section ships not getting credit for damage dealt by their sub-sections
Sustained hull damage is now capped at 100%, which should help ships with regenerating hull until I can make a more perminant fix
Doubled the xp required to earn new traits at every tier

I should have explained all this earlier. Sorry for not doing so!

An overdue explanation of how the new combat rating system interacts with old saves:

How the new system works:
  • Combat rating determines how many of a ship's traits are good.
  • Traits will gradually shift to have a percentage of good traits equal to the current rating of the ship.
  • If a ship has a rating of 70% for a long time, it will eventually end up with about 70% good traits and 30% bad traits.
So, unlike the previous version, where traits are determined by individual battles, in 1.1.7 it's more about maintaining as high a rating as possible.

Initial Rating
When an old save is loaded with the current version, it will try to guess what each of your ship's combat rating should be.
It will assign a rating of 100% to ships with 8 good traits and 0% to ships with 8 bad traits. Ship's with 1 or 2 traits should get an initial rating fairly close to 50%.

Rationale for change:
The old system was simply too easy to manipulate. Any ship that did fairly well in most battles would eventually end up with 8 good traits. I used RNG to mitigate this problem, but that had issues of its own, and the law of averages always wins out in the end anyway. With the rating system, I think ships will end up with a much more balanced mix of good and bad traits that more accurately reflects their overall combat performance.

Switching back to the old system:
Making the following changes to your options file should return the trait bonus calculation to exactly how it used to be:
Set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Set "bonusChanceRandomness" to 1.0
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.6 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 27, 2019, 01:00:43 AM
Yes, monitoring relations and adjusting them based on existing changes would work, but it wouldn't result in a good user experience because the actual changes would be different from what the notifications say. To do it properly, I would have to either fix the vanilla relation change notifications, or suppress and replace them.

Or you could just add yours right after.

"Relation with Hegemony increased by 2"   <--- core mesage
"Relation with Hegemony increased by 1"   <--- your mesage (the bonus)

Not exactly the prettiest, but works.

Quote
My opinion on this is basically "defense is defense," be it from shields, PD, cloak, armor, speed, firepower, ship systems, or anything else that helps the ship avoid taking hull damage. Regenerating hull, on the other hand, is something that isn't handled well by this system at all. I'll have to think about ways to handle that. I might change it to "lowest hull level reached" during the battle instead of "total hull damage taken."

Yeah, Steelclad has an entire faction that is all armor, no shields (and no armor regen by default).
Hmm..perhaps a check if a ship has shields an then a different calculation for it?

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 27, 2019, 06:52:32 AM
Very much a fan of this mod.

Not really a fan of this though:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/t2k6l89.png)
[close]
This was a popup pirate base. The only objective I had was kill it as quickly as possible so I can go and do something actually interesting.
So I deployed everything I could and completely rolled them with zero damage recieved.
And for doing so I was rewarded with.... A load of penalties.
What. How?

I don't have a problem getting bad things if bad things happen, but winning flawlessly (regardless of "difficulty") and still imposing bad things on you seems like something is very wrong.
Is this intentional?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on May 27, 2019, 06:58:56 AM
Is this an old save? Sundog has warned me about using newer version of the mod with old saves. It can cause some funky things to happen. It might also just be the way the current system interacts with low danger battles. One change I'd propose is to have a grace period of a couple of fights where ships affect their rating, but don't gain any traits at all.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512356777451323393/582527151551676426/unknown.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 27, 2019, 07:29:08 AM
Yes, it is an old save.
Just for further fruitiness:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/k53U3Ux.png)
[close]
Defending against an expedition. Again, just deploy whatever.
One AI ship did particularly well and got a big red mark. Same as above.

So is the new version not entirely backwards compatible?
Because restarting is not exactly a huge deal.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: frozentoes on May 27, 2019, 08:56:37 AM
The new system is rating ships based on their cumulative (recent) history. How this interacts with existing save data may be funny, because your recent history isn't stored yet - it will probably 'even out' over time but at first you're going to see sharp changes because some of the math is starting from zero, but other parts of the math already have values in place.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 09:23:50 AM
I should have explained all this earlier. Sorry for not doing so!

An overdue explanation of how the new combat rating system interacts with old saves:

How the new system works:
So, unlike the previous version, where traits are determined by individual battles, in 1.1.7 it's more about maintaining as high a rating as possible.

Initial Rating
When an old save is loaded with the current version, it will try to guess what each of your ship's combat rating should be.
(SCC, the thing I warned you about was that this calculation was being performed incorrectly in the dev build)
It will assign a rating of 100% to ships with 8 good traits and 0% to ships with 8 bad traits. Ship's with 1 or 2 traits should get an initial rating fairly close to 50%.

Rationale for change:
The old system was simply too easy to manipulate. Any ship that did fairly well in most battles would eventually end up with 8 good traits. I used RNG to mitigate this problem, but that had issues of its own, and the law of averages always wins out in the end anyway. With the rating system, I think ships will end up with a much more balanced mix of good and bad traits that more accurately reflects their overall combat performance.

Switching back to the old system:
Making the following changes to your options file should return the trait bonus calculation to exactly how it used to be:
Set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance" to true
Set "bonusChanceRandomness" to 1.0

@Serenitis: So the reason your ships got so many bad trait changes was probably because they all started out with 8 good traits, giving them an initial rating of 100% (which is the required rating to have nothing but good traits). Even though they all did well in that battle, they didn't do well enough to earn a max rating, so it was adjusted down (along with their traits)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 09:53:57 AM
The new system is rating ships based on their cumulative (recent) history. How this interacts with existing save data may be funny, because your recent history isn't stored yet - it will probably 'even out' over time but at first you're going to see sharp changes because some of the math is starting from zero, but other parts of the math already have values in place.
Yep, pretty much. Thanks for explaining.

One change I'd propose is to have a grace period of a couple of fights where ships affect their rating, but don't gain any traits at all.
That's a good idea. I probably should've done something like that, but I'd hesitate to complicate the code for the sake of a smoother version transition. It's too late now anyway. Combat ratings will still be tracked even if they're not used to adjust traits, so it's possible to manually make it work that way.

Or you could just add yours right after.
Yeah, but again, I don't like to make changes unless I can do them right. The screen space for notifications often gets too cluttered after battles even without redundant notifications.

Yeah, Steelclad has an entire faction that is all armor, no shields (and no armor regen by default).
Hmm..perhaps a check if a ship has shields an then a different calculation for it?
The current calculation doesn't penalize ships for taking armor damage, so I don't see why this would be necessary. Non-shield defenses can be just as viable as shields (all vanilla phase ships, for example).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on May 27, 2019, 10:37:49 AM
Interesting changes! I'll give the new version a shot on my next new game, as I'm nearly endgame on my current save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Serenitis on May 27, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
That's actually a decent change. Most ships that got deployed regularly in the previous version tended to get a 'perfect' set of traits after a few dozen battles regardless.
Was just a bit confusing seeing what it was doing without knowing why. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm going to run that old save for a while just to see what it does.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 27, 2019, 10:34:14 PM
During these long, huge battles in the endgame (where I'm flying a Victory battleship around with many cruisers and carriers, four colonies, Nexerelin with 11 mods in total), this mod has become pretty essential.  The legendary Captains with loyal crews appear to have immense endurance, and they need it.  Sometimes I am only allowed to field six total ships at the beginning of an engagement, against huge odds.

Decommissioning a legendary ship, or even moving a Captain to a new ship, is a really big deal:  so far it has only made sense to upgrade a Captain to a bigger/better ship.

For me, this mod is fantastic in the way that it brings a while additional heap of Rogue-like game elements:    When I start a new game, not only do I not know what sort of ship roster I will end up building, I have no idea how my people will turn out.  If i minimize losses, I am generally rewarded with better ships.  The icing on the cake is that the mod is compatible with the other ten mods I have in this game instance.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Null Ganymede on May 27, 2019, 11:14:27 PM
It definitely tweaks the officer leveling metagame. Before, I would aim to train captains for a small set of roles (armor brawler, shield skirmish, carrier) then swap them liberally within those roles.

The fact that a loyal crew can keep a ship relevant for what feels like 2x the typical duration keeps smaller ships viable longer. More importantly, it really encourages specializing your ships to your captains down to individual skills.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2019, 11:55:51 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.8 (BETA)

Fixed miscellaneous bugs related to damage calculations (eventually I'll get it right)
Fixed additional credit being awarded for landing the killing blow to a station
Fixed battle difficulty calculation failing to account for D-Mods, along with a few other issues
Fixed inital rating for newly notable ships not being applied
Fixed debug information appearing in reputation hullmod tooltips
Damage dealt to non-functional station sections (like armor sections) no longer counts as hull damage
Added new option: "showCombatRatings"

Edit: This version requires the most up-to-date version of Starsector
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.7 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 28, 2019, 01:33:36 AM
Recommended Option 'Presets'

The options file is very flexible, but it can be a bit complicated and hard to understand.
These edits are meant as a starting point for configuring Starship Legends to fit your preferred playstyle.


Spoiler
Author's Choice (Default)
The default settings are meant to give ships a fairly even mix of good and bad traits while making it possible (but very difficult) for them to eventually earn perfect reputations through exceptional performance in combat.
The FAQs go into detail about how Starship Legends works by default.

Perfect Balance
For those who want to add flavor to ships without upsetting the balance of the game more than necessary.
With these settings, every other trait will have a negative effect, and no effects will be applied due to loyalty.
Quote
"battleDifficultyMult":0.0,
"damageTakenMult":0.0,
"damageDealtMult":0.0,
"enableOfficerLoyaltySystem":false,
"showCombatRatings":false,

Unlimited Power
It's a single player game, so there's no such thing as cheating  ;)
These settings guarantee that traits will always be beneficial and crews will never become less loyal to their captains.
Quote
"ignoreAllMaluses":true,
"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true,
"worsenLoyaltyChanceMult":0.0,

Completely Random
These settings will leave the number of good and bad traits a ship gets up to chance.
Quote
"bonusChanceRandomness":1000.0,
"traitPositionChangeChanceMult":0.0,

Better Immersion
With these settings, reputation changes will be determined by the ship's performance in the battle in which the changes were earned.
Quote
"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true,
"traitPositionChangeChanceMult":1.0,
"showCombatRatings":false,
[close]

That's actually a decent change. Most ships that got deployed regularly in the previous version tended to get a 'perfect' set of traits after a few dozen battles regardless.
Yep, exactly. Hopefully the new system turns out to be a lot harder to manipulate while still being fair.

Was just a bit confusing seeing what it was doing without knowing why. Thanks for the clarification.
No problem. Sorry I didn't clarify sooner!

@eidolad & Null Ganymede: I'm glad the mod is working out well for you guys!  :D
I'm particularly happy to hear about it encouraging diversity in officer builds and fleet compositions  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 28, 2019, 07:27:29 AM
When starting a fight with a bounty.

Code
870530 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.CombatEngineAPI.isEnemyInFullRetreat()Z
java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.CombatEngineAPI.isEnemyInFullRetreat()Z
at starship_legends.CombatPlugin.advance(CombatPlugin.java:93)
at com.fs.starfarer.title.ooOO.o0oO$Oo.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.oOOO.new.super(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Starting Starsector 0.9.1a-RC6 launcher
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Running in D:\Games\Starsector0.91\starsector-core
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - OS: Windows 8.1 6.3
0    [main] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher  - Java version: 1.7.0_79 (64-bit)

I reverted to 1.17 and works normally.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Morathar on May 28, 2019, 07:52:24 AM
According to the patch notes, that missing method was added in Starsector 0.9.1a RC8:

-Added to CombatEngineAPI:
    -boolean isEnemyInFullRetreat();

In other words, it looks like the latest version of Starship Legends requires the most recent Starsector hotfix...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.8 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 28, 2019, 09:40:56 AM
According to the patch notes, that missing method was added in Starsector 0.9.1a RC8:

-Added to CombatEngineAPI:
    -boolean isEnemyInFullRetreat();

In other words, it looks like the latest version of Starship Legends requires the most recent Starsector hotfix...
Yep, exactly. I should've mentioned this in the update post.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.9 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 28, 2019, 11:12:40 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.9 (BETA)

Fixes the lack of backwards compatibility introduced in the last patch

When used with an out-of-date version of Starsector, the previous version of Starship Legends would report an error during battle and fail to properly record damage data.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.9 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on May 28, 2019, 12:13:01 PM
I was'nt even aware there as a hotfix.....
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.9 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: MesoTroniK on May 28, 2019, 08:26:55 PM
I was'nt even aware there as a hotfix.....

Version Checker is your friend.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 29, 2019, 04:49:50 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.10 (BETA)

Fixed a problem with battle difficulty calculation
Fixed battle report showing a rating of 0% for combat ships that weren't deployed
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 29, 2019, 05:03:17 PM
Much as I hesitate, I will say this:

TLDR:  has the combat readiness buff that legendary Captains/crews get, been balanced?

What makes this mod essential for me, in addition to the "emergent lore" goodness is:  I think that this mod is giving my legendary officers and their ships (that they've Captained long enough to gain fanatic loyalty) great combat endurance during the long battles.  I may be wrong that this mod is the source of this extended endurance.  I may be wrong even about the extended endurance.  Assuming I'm right:

I wonder out loud if my legendary officers and their ships are staying quite fresh during these long battles in the late game, while the enemy ships are degrading in combat ability.  I don't know how to examine enemy ship readiness (perhaps it is right in front of me).

- like when I'm up against a 380K bounty and there are six Conquests, two Astrals, and a horde of worthy cruiser-class carriers, combat cruisers, etc. to back them up.

- and my Deployment Points restrict me to six total ships:   Victory battleship, two battlecruisers, three cruiser carriers.

And in that long struggle (great battle...much love to StarSector) where I "earn" the right to deploy the rest of my legendary officers and their ships, I get only one degradation of combat readiness fleet-wide (and it didn't affect every ship it appears).  I had set a "defend" point in the middle of the map and just planted my flag there until the capitals were nearly gone...this was like a 17 minute battle in real time.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 30, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
17 minutes does seem like an awfully long time for ships to remain deployed without breaking down. I did some tests to make sure the buff was being applied correctly and I couldn't find any problems. Stacking a fiercely loyal captain with hardened subsystems reduces CR degradation rate from 100% to 37.5%, which would increase the time a ship can remain deployed after peak performance runs out by 266%. That might account for the extreme boost in endurance. Anyway, I think I'll reduce the bonus to 30% at max loyalty.

I get only one degradation of combat readiness fleet-wide
Does this mean that only one of your ships ran out of peak performance time? That would be crazy, and something officer loyalty shouldn't affect.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 30, 2019, 08:00:21 PM
Since the bonus got nerfed twice, it may be fair to make the malus a little less harsh as well.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on May 30, 2019, 09:06:43 PM
Yeah, I'm thinking it'll just be a simple -30 through 30. I think that should be enough to be meaningful without upsetting difficulty too much.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: eidolad on May 31, 2019, 10:18:38 AM
Does this mean that only one of your ships ran out of peak performance time? That would be crazy, and something officer loyalty shouldn't affect.

Sorry for the inaccuracy of that, I'm not well versed in the degradation phases since most battles end for me, one way or another beforehand, I'll try to collect more info.  But basically:

a) Without this mod:  if I'm in a battle of long duration I would get a big stream of readiness warnings that seem to account for all ships having hit the first degradation level. 

b) With Starship Legends, the few times that I recall getting readiness warnings since my officers fully leveled, the reporting pattern was more sporadic...and I have never once had to withdraw a ship due to CR depletion.  This is a massively good thing.

Details:  With Starship Legends, I've played a single Nex game (11 mods total) with the same 10 officers flying mostly the same ships since mid-game.  All are legendary lvl 20s.  Absolute pros and my battle reports rarely show any attribute changes for most.  The only changes are for the few officers I've moved to bigger ships.

I haven't found enough justification to retire ships that have mostly negative traits either...they seem to purr along just fine.

The nature of the big battles and how I've been fighting them recently:  we're talking enough time for a big bounty fleet to cycle in all 7 of their capitals on default battle size, with the player defending a point in the middle of the map - and thus those ships have to fly down to the player even to begin fighting.  I'm not bothering to remove the defend point until I've destroyed most of those capitals.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on May 31, 2019, 08:11:05 PM
Having played with the new system for a while, I have some observations and some questions.

A perfect 8/8 fleet imported over from the old system will see a slow trend downwards at the beginning. This makes sense. However, I have not once seen a (+) as a result of outstanding performance since the update (talking 400% damage inflicted and at 100% score). Once a ship peaks, there are no trait changes. It has become impossible to 'buff out' bad traits once you have them, whereas with the old system it was difficult and up to RNG to promote the right trait for the negative trait to be demoted. Something I have never seen happen either, but it was possible. Everything I have gotten so far has been maluses. I have even seen crew loyalty promotions and bad traits being awarded simultaneously.

The config says that RNG is heavily reduced now, but either I'm seeing a pattern of bad luck, or something in the calculations is off. Note that most of these ships are legendary with 6-8 positives, but once they lose some or gain a bad trait, I am not seeing any improvement either. Doesn't a 100% score correspond to 8 positive traits?

Where before even a low-ish difficulty rating would allow a ship to excel, i.e. a single player-piloted Afflictor helping an ally vs. pirates and doing upwards of 150% damage, now that is not enough to even push beyond 80% score. This seems a bit harsh and results in me not wanting to engage *anything* that's not a difficult battle against overwhelming odds. It also makes me deploy way less than I usually do. Usually resulting in very difficult fights that still end up with a less than great difficulty score.

Also noticed a bug. Sometimes a score change is shown on the post-combat screen but it doesn't stick.. That last screenshot shows the Afflictor getting to 94%, but now that I look at it it's back to 88%. After a second test: After-battle report (https://imgur.com/1u5xEHk.png). And then checking the ship stats. (https://imgur.com/wM7ljy9.png) I have fought half a dozen battles with these two Afflictors to try and get their score up, yet it seems they are stuck on 88% and 81% respectively.

A Heron also went from Legendary down to Well-known without ever dropping below 80% score.

Spoiler
(https://imgur.com/gRZlOUK.png)

Crew bonus, trait malus.

(https://imgur.com/XDPkoQ5.png)

Chance for a flawed Afflictor to lose a bad trait. Destroyed ship gets no bad trait.

(https://imgur.com/vqltZcH.png)
(https://imgur.com/z6oGWoF.png)

Heron with a +-0 score change gets bad trait. Outstanding Sunder previously demoted to 'Famous' and 6/6 traits gets nothing. Outstanding Afflictor with bad traits gets nothing.

(https://imgur.com/48evCDS.png)

Outstanding Sunder gets shafted. Outstanding Afflictor with a bit of hull damage gets a bad score.

(https://imgur.com/QFciXcV.png)

Another chance for the Afflictor to lose a bad trait.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on June 01, 2019, 01:23:42 AM
When I set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true, I get very different results. (https://i.imgur.com/FK1ChpB.png) Even with low battle difficulty. (https://i.imgur.com/IObCExa.png)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on June 01, 2019, 03:29:10 PM
I don't know if this problem would fall upon other mod makers, but I think that the battle difficulty calculation could use some work for boss factions like the Blade Breakers from DME. I feel that ~23% significantly underrates the BB dreadnought capabilities when I am going up against it with a fleet with a few not great capitals (DME Zelenograd, 3 HMI Junk for cargo capacity), a couple carrier cruisers and one combat cruiser, and a number of destroyers. I don't know if you could take into account the supply usage increase by the built in hull mod on the BB ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 02, 2019, 03:36:40 PM
I think I broke this mod in the least interesting way possible.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584850709519007755/screenshot731.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584864484867440650/screenshot736.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584868785501241384/screenshot738.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584871873326743574/screenshot740.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Midnight Kitsune on June 02, 2019, 07:05:39 PM
I think I broke this mod in the least interesting way possible.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584850709519007755/screenshot731.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584864484867440650/screenshot736.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584868785501241384/screenshot738.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584871873326743574/screenshot740.png)
[close]
HOW?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 03, 2019, 04:42:18 PM
a) Without this mod:  if I'm in a battle of long duration I would get a big stream of readiness warnings that seem to account for all ships having hit the first degradation level. 

b) With Starship Legends, the few times that I recall getting readiness warnings since my officers fully leveled, the reporting pattern was more sporadic...and I have never once had to withdraw a ship due to CR depletion.  This is a massively good thing.
Hmm... this isn't consistent with my experience (or my intention) at all. Starship legends should only be increasing the peak performance time of ships with the "determined crew" trait (by between 3 and 24 percent). Does the peak performance time display as higher than it should? Does it properly deplete at a rate of 1 second per second?

@Schwartz:
Spoiler
A perfect 8/8 fleet imported over from the old system will see a slow trend downwards at the beginning. This makes sense. However, I have not once seen a (+) as a result of outstanding performance since the update (talking 400% damage inflicted and at 100% score). Once a ship peaks, there are no trait changes. It has become impossible to 'buff out' bad traits once you have them, whereas with the old system it was difficult and up to RNG to promote the right trait for the negative trait to be demoted.
The config says that RNG is heavily reduced now, but either I'm seeing a pattern of bad luck, or something in the calculations is off. Note that most of these ships are legendary with 6-8 positives, but once they lose some or gain a bad trait, I am not seeing any improvement either. Doesn't a 100% score correspond to 8 positive traits?
If everything is working properly, there should be a minimum of an 8% chance for a bad trait to be removed or demoted on a ship with 7 good traits and 1 bad trait for each battle in which it maintains a score of 100%. I've made some adjustments to increase that likelihood (and generally improve how the rating system works for ships at 100%), but I haven't found any bugs that would prevent it from working as intended.

I have even seen crew loyalty promotions and bad traits being awarded simultaneously.
Loyalty is still based on the old system, so this would be working as intended if the battle rating was above 50% but below the ship's percentage of good traits.

Where before even a low-ish difficulty rating would allow a ship to excel, i.e. a single player-piloted Afflictor helping an ally vs. pirates and doing upwards of 150% damage, now that is not enough to even push beyond 80% score. This seems a bit harsh and results in me not wanting to engage *anything* that's not a difficult battle against overwhelming odds. It also makes me deploy way less than I usually do. Usually resulting in very difficult fights that still end up with a less than great difficulty score.
Yeah, the rating mechanic encourages difficult fights, which isn't a goal of this mod and I'm sure it isn't the preference of all players, but I don't think it's particularly harsh. Fighting easy battles alone can never reduce a ship's score below 50%, which is the (rough) baseline for being the same power as the ship would be without the mod.

Also noticed a bug. Sometimes a score change is shown on the post-combat screen but it doesn't stick.. That last screenshot shows the Afflictor getting to 94%, but now that I look at it it's back to 88%. After a second test: After-battle report (https://imgur.com/1u5xEHk.png). And then checking the ship stats. (https://imgur.com/wM7ljy9.png) I have fought half a dozen battles with these two Afflictors to try and get their score up, yet it seems they are stuck on 88% and 81% respectively.
Just found and fixed an issue that could frequently cause this problem. I should've looked into it sooner. There are a few other things I want to add to the next patch, but I should be able to get it out today.

A Heron also went from Legendary down to Well-known without ever dropping below 80% score.
This sounds like an unfortunate and unintended consequence of transitioning to the new system. Did your Heron start with nothing but good traits? If so, the mod is probably trying to balance it's traits toward it's rating by removing good traits, but that never does any good since it hasn't gotten any new bad traits to lower it's percentage of good traits below 100%.

When I set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true, I get very different results. (https://i.imgur.com/FK1ChpB.png) Even with low battle difficulty. (https://i.imgur.com/IObCExa.png)
Yep. That setting should revert back to the old system. Your screenshots reminded me that I need to make it so the rating column shows the ship's rating for the battle instead of it's persistent rating when that setting is true.
btw, thanks once again for your in-depth feedback!
[close]

I don't know if this problem would fall upon other mod makers, but I think that the battle difficulty calculation could use some work for boss factions like the Blade Breakers from DME. I feel that ~23% significantly underrates the BB dreadnought capabilities when I am going up against it with a fleet with a few not great capitals (DME Zelenograd, 3 HMI Junk for cargo capacity), a couple carrier cruisers and one combat cruiser, and a number of destroyers.
Starship legends estimates the strength of a ship based on the supplies required to deploy it. Deploy costs are an important balance consideration, but less so for non-player factions like BB or [REDACTED], so it might not always be accurate. There's not much I can do about this situation other than creating a list of power estimates for every ship, both modded and vanilla, but that has several massive downsides.

I don't know if you could take into account the supply usage increase by the built in hull mod on the BB ships.
This might already be the case. I'll have to check.

I think I broke this mod in the least interesting way possible.
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584850709519007755/screenshot731.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584864484867440650/screenshot736.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584868785501241384/screenshot738.png)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/584871873326743574/screenshot740.png)
[close]
I'm assuming those numbers are accurate? If so, then I'd say either you earned those combat rating increases by fighting very well, or there's something about your game configuration or mod list that makes combat too easy. A liberal application of cheese, perhaps? If you want to avoid the problem of inverted difficulty created by getting good traits from doing well in battle, you might want to try the "perfect balance" or "completely random" settings.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 03, 2019, 10:55:44 PM
It's fine, I'm just boasting. It's a shame that I can get +10 ship rating every fight and still get negative traits, but I've heard that it's not working properly (still) and you're working on it.
Starship legends estimates the strength of a ship based on the supplies required to deploy it. Deploy costs are an important balance consideration, but less so for non-player factions like BB or [REDACTED], so it might not always be accurate. There's not much I can do about this situation other than creating a list of power estimates for every ship, both modded and vanilla, but that has several massive downsides.
Fleet points are exactly that, power estimates for every ship. I swear, I've mentioned this one before...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.10 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 04, 2019, 01:26:09 AM
It's fine, I'm just boasting. It's a shame that I can get +10 ship rating every fight and still get negative traits, but I've heard that it's not working properly (still) and you're working on it.
Ok, gotcha. There are several fixes and improvements on the way, but the only problems related to trait gain that I'm aware of are fairly minor (there should be no chance of negative trait changes at 100% rating, for example). The new system tries to make ships have the same percentage of good traits as it's combat rating, so it's entirely possible for a ship to get a negative trait in spite of gaining 10%. A ship with only one good trait is almost guaranteed to get a bad one next time, for example. The only way to prevent that would be for the ship to get a rating of 100% before gaining a new trait.

Starship legends estimates the strength of a ship based on the supplies required to deploy it. Deploy costs are an important balance consideration, but less so for non-player factions like BB or [REDACTED], so it might not always be accurate. There's not much I can do about this situation other than creating a list of power estimates for every ship, both modded and vanilla, but that has several massive downsides.
Fleet points are exactly that, power estimates for every ship. I swear, I've mentioned this one before...
You have. I remember. FP was one of several stats I considered while deciding how best to estimate ship strength while I was initially working on ruthless sector. While FP may not underestimate remnant strength as much as deploy cost, it has several disadvantages that I consider to be much more important considerations:
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 04, 2019, 09:21:23 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.11 (BETA)

Fixed combat rating adjustments not being saved if the ship had no trait or loyalty changes
Fixed an issue that made it possible for a ship with max rating to get negative trait changes
Fixed ships with built-in phase field hullmods being able to earn non-applicable traits related to sensor profile
Loyalty levels now require certain ratings to improve, from 0.1 at insubordinate to 0.9 at loyal
The CR decay adjustment from loyalty now ranges from -30% to 30% instead of -50% to 100%
The strength estimation of stations is now based on fleet points rather than deployment cost
Battle reports...
   Now include destroyed and disabled ships that were not recovered
   Will no longer disappear as long as they are marked as important (pinned)
   Now show ratings for the battle instead of a persistent rating when useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance is true
   Now list ships in the order they were in before battle instead of after
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on June 05, 2019, 04:55:41 AM
The new single-combat rating may fluctuate wildly, but it doesn't get in the way and everything works as it should. I think the median rating, even when using the single-combat setting, still produces a more meaningful number, so you could definitely use the other one as well.

This release feels pretty polished. Thanks for your hard work and being a good sport through all my complaints. ;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 05, 2019, 08:04:09 PM
The new single-combat rating may fluctuate wildly, but it doesn't get in the way and everything works as it should. I think the median rating, even when using the single-combat setting, still produces a more meaningful number, so you could definitely use the other one as well.
Good to know that the old system is still working properly. I'm not sure what you mean by using the other one as well.

This release feels pretty polished. Thanks for your hard work and being a good sport through all my complaints. ;)
Well, you're quite welcome! Your feedback has all been very constructive and helpful  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Schwartz on June 05, 2019, 11:36:36 PM
The new scoring method for the 'classic' setting feels almost unnecessary. You may score 150% one combat, then 60% the next.. and neither number really does anything. In 1.1.10 there was only the average score and that at least gave some insight into ship performance long term. You could just use the average score for both systems and you wouldn't lose anything IMO.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.11 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 06, 2019, 12:51:51 PM
Starship Legends 1.1.12 (BETA)

Fixed "Skilled Salvage Team" being the only trait that could possibly be earned (introduced in the last patch. it's a long story...)
Improved accuracy of ship-strength estimation for non-player [REDACTED] ships, including those added by mods
Civilian ships are now estimated to have 0 strength, and therefore no longer affect battle difficulty rating

A note about how the strength of [REDACTED] ships are now estimated:
(WARNING: The spoiler below contains actual (but minor) spoilers)
Spoiler
Ship strength estimations are used for determining battle difficulty, so it's important that they're fairly accurate.
The strength estimation of most ships is equal to the supplies required to deploy them, but that value is inaccurate for many non-player factions, like Remnants, Domain Drones, and Blade Breakers (from Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering). To remedy this, the strength of any ship with the UNBOARDABLE tag will be estimated based on Fleet Points instead, but adjusted in order to match deployment cost values according to this formula:
ship_strength = FP * max(1, min(2, 1 + (FP - 5) / 25))
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 09, 2019, 02:26:10 PM
After playing with SL for some time (again), I have to say that while others might appreciate it, to me it's more annoying for trivial reasons than anything. Traits are completely random and you might end up with ships that have negative combat traits and positive logistic traits. Most of the time, it was random enough that I couldn't count on any appearing, so I just ignored and my ships were slightly better at random things. Aforementioned annoyance was mainly because of contextually bad or unexpected negative traits, but I don't think it had such a profound impact on a ship's performance to be worth that anger. Well, except for loyalty, which didn't come up a lot with my playstyle (of retreating when PPT runs out), but it would probably be the most important thing about this mod if I used SO ships, they can often run longer on CR degradation than on their reduced PPT.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 09, 2019, 03:03:44 PM
That's a sensible complaint. I've actually been meaning to ask you about this since I saw a comment of yours about it on discord. One thing that will be in the next update for sure will be these new settings:
Code
chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips
There has always been a 75% chance to ignore logistical traits on combat ships and vice versa, but I might increase the default to 100% (I've received complaints about it from two others).

Aforementioned annoyance was mainly because of contextually bad or unexpected negative traits
You mean like ships getting bad traits after battles in which they do well?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: SCC on June 09, 2019, 10:13:42 PM
I don't mind it per se, but I had an extreme situation where a ship had 3 positive logistic traits and 3 negative combat traits.
As for bad traits, I mean -armour for low-tech, -shields for high-tech, -speed for midline, that kind of thing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.12 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 10, 2019, 03:12:43 PM
Ok, gotcha. Thanks for explaining.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 13, 2019, 11:52:35 AM
Starship Legends 1.1.13 (BETA)

Ships that are deployed only to mop up fleeing enemies will no longer count as deployed for the battle*
Fixed a few minor formatting issues for battle reports
Added new settings, both of which default to 0.75 (75%)
   chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
   chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips

*Edit: To clarify, this means that ships deployed in a follow-up pursuit will no longer count as deployed for battle, if the player is pursuing. Ships still count as deployed if the pursuit is the only engagement of the battle, or if the player's fleet is being pursued.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: AudaciousBS on June 13, 2019, 05:19:14 PM
Added new settings, both of which default to 0.75 (75%)
   chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
   chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips
Sweet! Can't wait to see how this plays.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 13, 2019, 05:41:32 PM
Added new settings, both of which default to 0.75 (75%)
   chanceToIgnoreLogisticsTraitsOnCombatShips
   chanceToIgnoreCombatTraitsOnCivilianShips
Sweet! Can't wait to see how this plays.
Just to be clear; there has always been a 75% chance to ignore mismatches between logistics/combat traits and ships. This change only exposes those settings in the options file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: erikem on June 27, 2019, 02:06:43 PM
What about weaponless carriers? Will they also receive promotions?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 27, 2019, 04:56:22 PM
Yes, they will. They might still get traits that affect weapons though
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: yapper107 on June 29, 2019, 02:17:01 AM
How do traits affect certain ships with multiple parts?  Does it handle it as the Officer bonuses, and apply the effects of the ships traits to all of the separate sections of the ship, or do the traits only affect the main hull piece? 

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on June 30, 2019, 08:16:25 AM
How do traits affect certain ships with multiple parts?  Does it handle it as the Officer bonuses, and apply the effects of the ships traits to all of the separate sections of the ship, or do the traits only affect the main hull piece?
Hmm... that's a very good question. Trait effects are applied the same way hullmod and skill effects are applied, so I'd assumed the effects would carry over to sub-parts in both cases, but that might not be the case. Sub-parts are basically implemented as separate ships glued together, so it would make sense for them to have separate stat modifiers. I'll have to devise some experiment or ask around to make sure, but for now I'd say the affects of traits (along with hullmods, dmods, and skills) probably only affect the core section of multi-part ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: crawlers on July 06, 2019, 04:52:40 PM
May you add the option to disable positive traits, so only negative ones show up?  Sometimes, we need suffering, for ships to become ever more cursed as the player's hand brings ruin to everything it touches.

Thank you
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 06, 2019, 05:38:35 PM
Heh, I like your style. You can disable positive traits by setting the following options:
Quote
   "baseRating":0.0,
   "battleDifficultyMult":0.0,
   "damageDealtMult":0.0,
   "showCombatRatings":false,
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on July 08, 2019, 10:38:18 AM
Is damage against fighters/missiles counted in any way. I made a PD boat with AOE anti-missile, anti-fighter missiles etc, but it's rating is really low. I think it only scores when it kills ships with its light darts.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: namad on July 10, 2019, 11:38:37 AM
I've now got some traits on some logistics ships which have never been in combat. This is probably a bug? I will say though that I now have 28 ships in my fleet (I increased max fleet size in the settings file).

Weirdly though the logistics ships which gained these traits were at the bottom of the list of ships, which to me means I think that ship 26,27,28 are the ones that got traits despite never having seen combat, being logistics ships.

So I think your mod must have a number 25 in it somewhere that should maybe be bigger (some sort of number that checks which ships were in the battle or not in the battle?)



That said I just engaged in another battle in which my fleet size was 32 and didn't encounter this issue.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on July 10, 2019, 12:41:17 PM
I've now got some traits on some logistics ships which have never been in combat. This is probably a bug? I will say though that I now have 28 ships in my fleet (I increased max fleet size in the settings file).

Weirdly though the logistics ships which gained these traits were at the bottom of the list of ships, which to me means I think that ship 26,27,28 are the ones that got traits despite never having seen combat, being logistics ships.

Feature, not bug. Purely civilian ships passively get traits while not deployed. There are settings options in the mod .ini file to control whether they should get traits, and their chances of getting combat-relevant or logistics-relevant traits.

This should probably be mentioned more prominently on the first post.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: namad on July 10, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
Oh I'm fine with it if it's a feature, I probably didn't realize because my tankers and cargo ships had previously been hounds/shepards, which if not deployed never get any traits. These new salvage rigs and ox's did. That sounds fair. If I'll never deploy it, I guess it makes sense to get traits anyways!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 10, 2019, 02:25:41 PM
Is damage against fighters/missiles counted in any way.
Nope. Only hull damage and battle difficulty increase rating above 50%. The formula is in the FAQs under"How do I increase combat rating?"
Unfortunately, dedicated support ships do tend to get screwed a bit.

This should probably be mentioned more prominently on the first post.
Agreed! Updated the FAQs to mention this under "What options does this mod provide?"
Might give that it's own FAQ later though. The original post needs a lot of work.
Thanks for answering btw!

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Darloth on July 19, 2019, 01:27:32 PM
Hi, love the mod but minor bug report:

(http://puu.sh/DUSSo/f286ff848d.png)

I know my screen is now comically tiny (1280x1024) but the Inflicted column is taking up quite a lot of room and Reputation basically demands a tooltip anyway, so can we get just a teensy bit more space for Rating so I can see what it increased or decreased by please?

Obviously this won't be a problem for the 90% of you who have a widescreen monitor, but I doubt changing it would incur a problem for them either? Hopefully?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 19, 2019, 02:35:51 PM
Good point! Rating is supposed to be fully visible at any resolution, as it's rather important. I'll make sure that's fixed for the next release.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Histidine on July 19, 2019, 06:56:38 PM
Is there a way to tell which ships have non-Indifferent loyalty (particularly positive loyalty) to which officers?

I had a problem recently when I loaded an old save, tried shuffling some ships and officers around, then had a bit of trouble figuring out which officers to put back on which ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on July 19, 2019, 08:14:18 PM
There's no good way to do that at the moment. Ideally that sort of thing would be visible on the officer assignment screen, but I doubt there's a practical way to make that happen. I'll see what I can do. I might add a section to the hullmod tooltip to show loyalties when no officer is assigned.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 05, 2019, 12:13:02 PM
I'm planning on changing the way ratings are calculated by default and I thought some of you might want to weigh in. The basic idea is to remove the concept of "battle difficulty" from starship legends unless ruthless sector is also running. The new default formulas would be:

Without ruthless sector:
Code
rating = 0.5 - damageTaken*0.5 + damageDealt*0.25
With ruthless sector:
Code
rating = 0.25 + battleDifficulty*0.3 - damageTaken + max(0, damageDealt-1)*0.25
And for reference, this is the current formula:
Code
rating = 0.5 + battleDifficulty*0.25 - damageTaken + max(0, damageDealt-1)*0.25

Other things I've been working on that should make it into the next update:
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: BringerofBabies on August 05, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
Could damageDealt be all damage dealt (after damage type multipliers are applied) to missiles, shields, armor, & hull (ships & fighters)? That would allow dedicated PD vessels to be rewarded somewhat, so long as they are actively doing their job, as well as rewarding ships that only manage to damage shields/armor (e.g. broke a station's shields & armor but then had to be retreat due to taking damage). The only unbalanced part that I can think of would be racking up huge damage counts when hammering on a shielded ship that you can never actually kill, but I don't think this would happen often.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 05, 2019, 01:57:53 PM
Yeah, it's possible, but I haven't thought of a way to do it that wouldn't cause huge problems with gameplay. My main concern is incentivising the manipulation of scores by dragging combat out in order to deal more damage to shields or fighters. However, I am well aware that dedicated PD ships are a niche that is underestimated by the rating system, and I'd like to find a solution to that. Unfortunately, every solution I've considered has been worse than the problem itself.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Lionion on August 05, 2019, 08:56:50 PM
It's probably not as broken as you think considering that you need either a shitload of command points (with a command center hullmod) to farm damage with a fleet or a lot of supplies when you are soloing, and that enemy ai generally decides to retreat if they see no way to win (i.e. player constantly dunking on the fighers/drones and gimping their regen).

If anything right now the mod heavily rewards flankers and damage dealers that it becomes almost comical after a certain point that almost all your destroyers have 80+ rating whereas your Onslaught capital ship has sub 40% because of all the armor/hull tanking it has to do.

Considering a loyalty mechanic is already in place and there are historical examples of ships that survive insane structural damage that they become famous for it, I would even argue surviving combat with hull damage should count towards the combat rating.

To offset the positive rating bloat, maybe take into consideration the number of system malfunctions, the time ships spend in reduced CR to offset it?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 05, 2019, 09:54:08 PM
Hey, thanks for the feedback and welcome to the community!

So my concerns about awarding rating for support damage aren't about realism or avoiding rating bloat so much as avoiding perverse incentives. For example, if ships gained rating for taking structural damage, then many people would intentionally damage their own ships. I'm open to ideas for leveling the playing field for ships that aren't damage dealers, but it's out of the question to award rating for anything that would encourage people to prolong battles for the sake of rating. Hull damage works because it's a finite resource that you want to strip away from your opponent as quickly as possible whether you're doing it to improve rating or just to win the battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 08, 2019, 06:52:44 PM
Starship Legends 1.2.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

Added 12 new traits:
   Battle Scarred / Scrap Heap - Adjusted effects from lasting damage (d-mods). Only earned after ship recovery
   Skilled/Inept Survey Team - Further reduces supplies required for surveys. Only for ships with built-in surveying equipment
   Blockade Runner - Increases speed boost at zero flux. Only for ships with built-in shielded cargo holds
   Cool/Hot-running Drive Stabilizer - Adjusts sensor profile by quite a bit. Only for ships with built-in drive field stabilizers (like the Ox)
   Comm Support - CP recovery while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   Nav Support - Speed bonus for all ships while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   ECM Support - ECM rating bonus while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
   Cursed - Spontaneous malfunction chance. Only earned after ship recovery
   Phase-mad Crew - Malfunction chance while phased. Only earned after ship recovery by ships with built-in phase fields
Added console commands: AddTrait, SetLoyalty, AdjustTraits, ClearRep, ListTraitEffects, SetRating, SetTraitEffectMult, and List traits
Added supplimentary details to battle reports, including lists of enemy ships destroyed and routed
Added a section to reputation hullmod tooltips that shows the officers with the most loyalty (only when no officer is assigned)
Added a new setting for easily changing the potency of trait effects: "globalEffectMult"
Added an alternative settings file to be used only when ruthless sector is active: RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
Added an error pop-up when used with old versions of Starsector
Added a file for adjusting the percent of damage taken that is counted for rating calculation: "\sun_sl\data\hull_regen_ships.csv"
   This is primarily for ships that regenerate hull damage, and currently only applies to the Excelsior and Royco (from ship and weapon pack), with a 50% reduction
   Please let me know of any other ships that regenerate hull and should be adjusted
Fixed battle reports not being sorted by date and time
Fixed rating colum of battle reports being too narrow at very low resolutions
Fixed starship legends calculating battle difficulty when ruthless sector reports a battle difficulty of 0% due to reload penalties
Changed logic for trait prominance changes to prevent insignificant swapping of trait positions
Changed battle report notification for trait prominance changes to mention both traits that swapped places
Changed default rating calculation to exclude battle difficulty
Changed: ships deployed only to mop up fleeing enemies are again counted as deployed for the battle
Changed ship strength calculation to be overriden by ruthless sector if it is also active
Changed traits that affect crew losses to also apply to losses taken by fighters
Changed XP required to guarantee new traits. It has been lowered for all tiers:
   Notable          160k -> 80k
   Well Known     640k -> 400k
   Famous          2560k -> 2000k
   Legendary      10240k -> 10000k
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 09, 2019, 10:35:37 AM
Hello
Very interesting mod you made,sir
So my concerns about awarding rating for support damage aren't about realism or avoiding rating bloat so much as avoiding perverse incentives. For example, if ships gained rating for taking structural damage, then many people would intentionally damage their own ships. I'm open to ideas for leveling the playing field for ships that aren't damage dealers, but it's out of the question to award rating for anything that would encourage people to prolong battles for the sake of rating. Hull damage works because it's a finite resource that you want to strip away from your opponent as quickly as possible whether you're doing it to improve rating or just to win the battle.
To be honest this type of players would just play with no penalties option or abuse the game in either way. I don't see the point to try to go against them at the expense of legit players.
Some bonus rating for PD and reduced penalty for low tech ships(as they suppose to tank with armor) should be great.
Maybe use lost crew as some sort of reducing rating thing. I mean if your crew get shoot to bits but nobody died then its more notable than ship that vent half the crew after some ricochet hit it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 09, 2019, 04:01:48 PM
Hello
Very interesting mod you made,sir
Hi! Thanks for your interest

To be honest this type of players would just play with no penalties option or abuse the game in either way.
I don't think that's the case. These aren't exploits we're talking about, just mechanics that reward annoying behavior. Yes, some players limit themselves with self-imposed rules in order to avoid annoying game mechanics. I do it all the time. That doesn't mean games should have annoying mechanics.

I'll give some more thought to making rating calculations more fair to combat support ships in a way that doesn't introduce perverse incentives, but I can't promise results.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Lionion on August 10, 2019, 12:44:38 AM
As long as there is a coherent set of rules, there will always be a way to abuse, exploit, skirt around those rules. Even at the current state of the mod, you can arguably micromanage to herd enemy ships so your flagship can get all of the kills. Wouldn't this arguably be the exact same thing with damage dealt, not damage absorbed?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zalpha on August 10, 2019, 04:45:17 AM
I am just throwing a random thought out there but is there a way you could be reward based on trade done? Not sure how or what the perk would be but I think being a merchant captain sounds nice. I do not know how but so far I have been able to go hours in my new game without getting into any combat and have been making good trades along the way and picking up good ships too. First time I have experienced that and it has been fun but my captains haven't gotten any experience because of it. So I am the only one leveling.

I love the mod and am waiting for the stable version to come out before updating again. Thanks for your continued work and effort into it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Erythion on August 10, 2019, 06:29:35 AM
I fought multiple skirmishes in one battle against a raid, but only the last skirmish gets a report...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sinigr on August 10, 2019, 02:27:11 PM
Do you undestand that hull damage system is stupid? It makes ships with bad shields or tactics without using shields unsuitable. And here is always some risk to take some hull damage to make fight faster, but we control it to prevent death. You are mad man, i think.

ECM Support - ECM rating bonus while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
You suggest deploy some colossus into battle? Omg, you are really mad man.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 10, 2019, 03:46:11 PM
On fighter damage contributing to battle rating
After giving this quite a bit of thought, I think I've come up with a way to make this work without causing any gameplay problems. The only issue is that it'll probably take me a full day of work to get working properly, so I might not be able to add it any time soon.

As long as there is a coherent set of rules, there will always be a way to abuse, exploit, skirt around those rules. Even at the current state of the mod, you can arguably micromanage to herd enemy ships so your flagship can get all of the kills.
You're right about every set of rules being abusable to some degree, and you're right that the current rating system is somewhat abusable. The difference is in how abusable the rules are. The current rating rules do very little to encourage bizarre or annoying gameplay, but a lot of the suggestions I get for adjusting the rules would be downright broken.

Wouldn't this arguably be the exact same thing with damage dealt, not damage absorbed?
Not sure what you mean by this. Would you mind clarifying?

I am just throwing a random thought out there but is there a way you could be reward based on trade done?
I really like the idea of civilian ships earning logistical traits for taking part in non-combat activities. I've added this to my list and I'll see what I can do!
(Also: you're missing out on the best part of the game!)

I love the mod and am waiting for the stable version to come out before updating again. Thanks for your continued work and effort into it.
Thanks! I'm glad you like it  ;D
As for stability: No one has reported any bugs to me yet, but the beta has only been out for two days, so there's still a decent chance there are a few well-hidden ones.

I fought multiple skirmishes in one battle against a raid, but only the last skirmish gets a report...
Yup. You get one battle report for each battle, no matter how many engagements the battle consists of. The report adds up the data for all of the engagements.

Do you undestand that hull damage system is stupid?
I'm afraid I don't, but you're certainly welcome to attempt to enlighten me. A word to the wise though: if you want to change my mind about something, you're better off being civil.

ECM Support - ECM rating bonus while deployed. Only for civilian-grade ships
You suggest deploy some colossus into battle? Omg, you are really mad man.
The support traits are a bit of an experimental feature, for sure, but yes, I really am hoping those traits will encourage people to deploy civilian ships into battle for the sake of the bonuses they can provide. Hopefully they'll add an interesting twist. We'll see!  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 12, 2019, 09:31:25 AM
What about making PD damage or even shield damage secondary(or tertiary) aspect with capped values? So they can effect to some point but at much lesser rate?

Also what about crew losses? Could it also affect somewhat rating?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 12, 2019, 10:07:02 AM
What about making PD damage or even shield damage secondary(or tertiary) aspect with capped values? So they can effect to some point but at much lesser rate?
Well, the idea I have in mind for PD damage (against fighters) would have a sort of cap, although it might be too unconventional to actually call it that. A straightforward cap on support damage was one of the first things I originally considered, but it does very little to mitigate the original problem. Yes, it would discourage people from infinitely farming damage against fighters, but they would still want to make sure to hit the cap. That's not such a big deal if the cap is low, but with a low cap it would fail to adequately reward dedicated PD ships.

Also what about crew losses? Could it also affect somewhat rating?
Crew loss is based almost entirely on the hull damage a ship takes. The main difference between the two (mechanically) is that crew losses are easier to manipulate with skills and hullmods (a bad thing imo), and that carriers would be at a massive disadvantage due to how often they lose crew from fighter losses (a very bad thing imo).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zalpha on August 12, 2019, 11:12:20 AM
I really like the idea of trying to encourage civilian ship use as I avoid them like the plague when modded ships do their job and offer more. If this mod offered perks targeted towards them specifically that would be great. I am not sure how anything works (so ignore this if I am wrong or way off) but maybe there could be benefits for captains who that tag along with the fleet but not get deployed into battle and for those that do get deployed into battle. Not sure what they would be but you get the idea that there would be a difference between a tag along captain (pure utility ship) and a captain in a deployed civilian re-fitted into a combat vessel. Just a thought, not sure of how stuff works and all that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JDCollie on August 12, 2019, 11:33:55 PM
Do you undestand that hull damage system is stupid? It makes ships with bad shields or tactics without using shields unsuitable. And here is always some risk to take some hull damage to make fight faster, but we control it to prevent death. You are mad man, i think.
I disagree. The idea behind the mod is the reputation the ships develop among the people who crew them. Ships that regularly take hull damage and therefore lose crew are going develop reputations of being ill-fated even if they are statistically successful. And anyway ships with bad shields generally have good armor. Ships with bad armor generally have good shields. Ships that have neither are either compensated in another way such as mobility or standoff firepower, or are bad ships. (At least for combat anyway.)  As for tactics, well, a ship that has good shields/armor, but refuses to use them because of the tactics of the captain? Well, I don't think it's unreasonable to think the crew wouldn't be particularly loyal.

Granted, this is all from an immersion perspective. From a gameplay one, look at the formula. So long as the fleet you deploy is roughly equal to the one you face, and your ship inflicts more than it's own deployment cost in hull damage, you will see good combat ratings. I don't mean to be critical, but if ships using your "unshielded tactics" are unable to pull a good rating, then perhaps they actually aren't preforming as solidly as you believe they are?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Lionion on August 13, 2019, 03:34:27 AM
It's impossible not to take hull damage if you armor tank. Armor damage mitigation isn't 100% and HE weapons chew through armor with ease. You are almost certainly bound to lose some hull unless you are an Alpha AI yourself. Loss of hull is loss of CR, hence the mod's bias towards fast and agile destroyers with medium or large weapon mounts.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Euripides on August 13, 2019, 04:34:47 AM
Shields can indefinitely tank damage so long as the damage never exceeds its capacity/recharge rate - you could take a hit once every 30 seconds forever.

Armor does not have that. You will eventually chew through armor, becuase it doesn't regenerate like shields do. This puts any armor focused design at a disadvantage in this mod. The amount of damage an armor-based ship can tank before it takes hull damage is fundamentally finite. The amount of damage a shield-based ship can tank can theoretically be infinite - something armor tanking cannot match.

The hull damage model very clearly disadvantages armor tanked designs compared to shield tanked designs.

The problem is finding a better way to simulate what the mod aims for. Hull damage is good enough, it could be better - maybe we can brainstorm some ideas in the thread.



Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Inventor Raccoon on August 13, 2019, 04:36:31 AM
If armor-focused ships are being penalized too harshly, maybe high-armor ships should have the penalties for taking hull damage reduced, with "high-armor" being defined relative to the ship's size - a 450 armor Brawler wouldn't lose as much rating from hull damage as a 150 armor Wolf, but the 1000 armor Odyssey would still be penalized heavily because it's lightly-armored for a capital ship. This is sort of a thing (armor protects hull, after all) but a light-armor ship taking hull damage is usually from being overwhelmed or from a mistake like a torpedo impact, while high-armor ships use it to tank on the regular.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Zalpha on August 13, 2019, 05:30:50 AM
I don't know how all this stuff works but what if rather than being focused on armor it was focused on crew members lost in combat. Maybe there could be other buffs/de-buffs for those lost on salvaging missions, that is if crew member losses could be a thing?
Edit: I forgot and just thought about how this would include fighter plans from cruisers, which isn't a good thing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Thaago on August 13, 2019, 11:19:34 AM
I think the hull damage model is fine. Ships with high armor still use their shields to block HE and incidental damage. High tech ships still use their armor to tank kinetic rounds. Thats what those defensive systems are for, they just have different capacities depending on design type. Shields are "infinite" for everyone.

Having negative rep be based on crew killed is interesting though, as it would give a reason to install blast doors - to improve the morale of the troops!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: lwki on August 13, 2019, 11:54:17 AM
Can you explain how does reputation growth work on reserved ships?
maxXpForReservedShips is the max experience reserved ships can get from combat encounter or is it overriding max xp to guarantee new trait?
Does traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips multiply the chances of getting a trait? What chances? I thought traits were guaranteed? Reserved ships get a chance of getting a new trait at maxXpForReservedShips?

Wanted to play around with settings but its kinda hard to understand if you don't know how the mod works
Great mod btw, thank you
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 13, 2019, 09:59:21 PM
Can you explain how does reputation growth work on reserved ships?
Sure, although it's likely to change in the near future. Currently, all ships gain traits based on the amount of XP earned from battles. If a battle awards 46 XP and xpToGuaranteeNewTrait is 100, then there will be a 46% chance to earn a new trait. For civilian ships the XPearned from battle is multiplied by 0.25 (traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips), and capped at 320k XP (maxXpForReservedShips)

Wanted to play around with settings but its kinda hard to understand if you don't know how the mod works
Yeah, at some point I need to expand the FAQs and add more comments to the config file.

Great mod btw, thank you
Thanks! My pleasure  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 14, 2019, 04:00:10 AM
The hull damage work right now but I think it could work better. It sure put armor tanking ships in worse position.
I think rating could use secondary trait based on crew damage.
Sure you could affect it by officer skills/mods but you can boost hull with it too.
Sure it would affect carriers but be honest with me: would you like to serve on carrier that go through dozens of expendable pilots by battle? I bet not - also there are both officer skills/fleet skills/mods to reduce it.
There of course could be different way to count rating for different ships. With some bonuses/penalties based on ship type.
Like low tech would be more affected by lost crew than by hull damage when in case of carriers lost crew would affect rating less.

Anyway really great addition to gameplay.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on August 14, 2019, 04:17:34 AM
I've made account just to post this :)

I think the idea behind this mod is great. Bonuses are not overwhelming yet make me stick to my ship longer. Also makes it more unique, as it may lead player to upgrade ones ship to play into reputation strengths.

I downloaded the 1.2.0 BETA and here is my feedback thus far:
NOTE: I don't understand exactly how various things are calculated and I base following observations on the way things felt when they happened. It is entirely possible that things work differently, I just couldn't tell.

1. There are some weird interactions with, possibly, Ruthless Sector? Something to do with how battle difficulty is calculated or XP is handed out post battle. I fight non-stop against fleets that have numerical superiority (ie. 1 me vs 10 ships) and somehow I cannot break past combat rating of 65% in my destroyer. Seriously, I pulled 2 cruiser kills + 7 frigates with a single destroyer and my rating went from 65% to 67%. In previous version I had no such issues and went past 70% easily. I cannot imagine what kind of odds need to be stacked against me to go up to 90% right now.

2. Combat rating system as implemented punishes hit-and-run tactics, as it cannot distinguish between orderly retreat and total defeat. Basically the only way to rise it is to go in enemies face and nuke it out. I did two runs against one huge convoy and even though both times I pulled out with around 20-30% hull (and many kills), my rating went down from 65% down to ~50%. I got entire convoy third time. Went up to like 53%? I mean I just killed smth like 20 ships with a single destroyer. Give me some cred :P

3. Does hull damage affect battle combat rating? It seems to do so and tbh I don't think its good idea. Battle performance is already measured by number of kills/damage player manages to deal and it punishes armor ships that always end up with some hull damage. As a result fast and maneuverable shield tanked ships get much higher CR.

4. While not necessarily a bad design choice, some reputations are game changing for given hulls and some are not very useful. Ie. basic 4% of Strong Armor on puny destroyer with paper thin armor vs same bonus on Onslaught... 3% of Strong Engines on same overdriven destroyer? Frigate killer.

5. Current system punishes pirate play style a lot... like, I hunt smugglers, trade convoys etc. to get supplies when in hostile territory or when non are available and every single time my combat rating goes down because I pick on too easy targets... which forces me to attack bigger convoys... which I need to raid several times to chip down annoying ships... which lowers my CR even more... you see where this is going :P

6. Right now I am not even sure how lost in combat rating is calculated, but I went once against hegemony fleet detachment (solo, they bounced off Hyperspace Storm and got me) and while I cleared all frigates and destroyers while under heavy fire from cruisers and capitals... I got -7% to CR... like seriously? Haven't I just done something epic? If I would do the same thing without hundreds of Pilum missiles flying around and won, my rating would go up.

Suggestions:
1. Ignore hull damage to ship when calculating score for won battle.

2. Factor in hull damage to ship when calculating score for battle from which player retreated (would work nice with hit-and-run), so that i.e. if 0% hull damage then CR penalty for losing would also equal 0%.

3. Lower player combat rating for lost battles based on actual number of ships lost.

4. MAYBE only battles that can rise combat rating can also affect it negatively? I mean, I get that - killing small smuggler fleets is nothing glorious, but cruising around and around just to find the fleet of right size is just not fun.

Edit:
I noticed how difficulty is calculated in Ruthless Sector and now I see what was the problem with point 1. What got me was that "1% per player level factor in calculation of player's fleet strength. Since I fought 1 vs 10 from the very start, I got ton of XP and raised my character level super fast to almost level 30, so for the purpose of strength calculation I got 30% stronger.

Also, when I look at my fleet strength evaluation I also think that your mod counts player level twice. Once as that "1%" and second time as "2.5% per officer level" when strength of individual ship is calculated.

Now tell me if I am wrong, but I don't think that even level 50 player in frigate is going to contribute to a fight as much as a carrier, but according to the formula he would add more fleet strength. Unless, everything went into "fleet" skills. I can see why it was done that way, however it not going to work in all situations. Luckily its very easy to tweak in settings :) Amazing mod!

I would suggest adding some more text to FAQ, ie. "If you enjoy playing small, you might want to change the [setting] to [something]".

Edit 2:
Further reading also allowed me to deal with point 6... kinda. There is this "maxBattleDifficultyEstimation" set at default to be 2.0. I think you put a limit, so that even super impressive victory would not catapult player up to level 20 or higher in one go? Now this will also limit how your combat rating is going to rise from same victory, wouldn't it?

Is it possible to add another factor in xp calculation? Like "whatever XP I get... multiply it by 0.5". That way I can make impressive battles to have more impressive impact on ships' reputation, but by lowering overall XP by a factor of XYZ, prevent suddenly becoming too high level frigate pilot.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 14, 2019, 10:33:10 AM
On crew losses factoring into combat rating:
As far as I can tell, the only advantage this would have is to slightly improve realism, which in my opinion comes nowhere close to overcoming the major problems it would introduce. For me to consider this change would require a persuasive argument that it would improve gameplay mechanics, which, so far, I haven't seen.

On heavily armored / weakly shielded ships being at a disadvantage:
I still don't think they actually are. At least, not inherently. Some highly armored ships are weak, but that's just a matter of ship balance. Ships have many ways to avoid taking hull damage (armor, shields, phase cloaks, ship systems, point defense, and (perhaps most importantly) firepower), and armor isn't the only one of these that is non renewable. Armor has the same trade-off as missiles; its far more effective in the short term, but depletes over time.
Furthermore, I haven't found armored ships to be at a disadvantage in my personal gameplay experience. In fact, the two flagships I've used most often in 0.9.1 were both armor tanks with Heavy Armor installed and either weak shields (Conquest), or none at all (Doom). In spite of not relying on shields with either, I had no trouble maintaining a rating above 90% for both (disclaimer: I always spec into combat  ;)). For AI piloted ships, too, I never noticed any significant differences in rating between ships of different defensive types. I didn't do nearly enough testing for that kind of evidence to be anything like conclusive, of course, but in practice I'm just not seeing a trend of ships that rely on armor being magnets for hull damage.

@ActuallyUlysses
Hi! Thanks for the feedback and welcome to the community  :)

First of all, I think I've failed to make a few things clear. Most importantly; battle difficulty is only based on the number of ships you deploy, not the total number of ships in your fleet, so you can increase battle difficulty by deploying fewer ships. In fact, one of the main goals of ruthless sector is to encourage you to do so.

Both starship legends and ruthless sector involve math that can be important to understand, and unfortunately I haven't found a good way to explain how the math works in-game yet. Until then, there's a lot of information in the FAQs sections of both mods that explains how things work in detail.

To address most of your feedback point-by-point:
Spoiler
There are some weird interactions with, possibly, Ruthless Sector? Something to do with how battle difficulty is calculated or XP is handed out post battle. I fight non-stop against fleets that have numerical superiority (ie. 1 me vs 10 ships) and somehow I cannot break past combat rating of 65% in my destroyer. Seriously, I pulled 2 cruiser kills + 7 frigates with a single destroyer and my rating went from 65% to 67%. In previous version I had no such issues and went past 70% easily. I cannot imagine what kind of odds need to be stacked against me to go up to 90% right now.
A few things that might account for this:
Ships of the same size are often far from equal. A harbinger will count as five buffalo mk.II for example. If the buffalo has a bunch of permanent damage, the harbinger might even count as more than 10 of them. All civilian ships count as 0
Ruthless sector scales the estimation of the strength of your ships with your level, so in the example above, a single harbinger could count for as many as 15 buffalo mk.II if your character level is 50. The default configuration of ruthless sector is meant to be difficult even for players with several hundred hours of experience.

2. Combat rating system as implemented punishes hit-and-run tactics, as it cannot distinguish between orderly retreat and total defeat.
The rating system doesn't even distinguish between victory and defeat. It's all about the odds you were up against and hull damage dealt vs sustained.

I did two runs against one huge convoy and even though both times I pulled out with around 20-30% hull (and many kills), my rating went down from 65% down to ~50%. I got entire convoy third time. Went up to like 53%? I mean I just killed smth like 20 ships with a single destroyer. Give me some cred :P
Hmm... This is a strategy I haven't really considered. Usually when people use a single ship to fight a fleet they retreat in order to refresh PPT (peak performance time) or switch to a different ship, but they still re-engage without ending the battle outright. I'll have to give some thought to how this type of strategy should be handled.

4. While not necessarily a bad design choice, some reputations are game changing for given hulls and some are not very useful.
Yup. A big part of the reason traits are randomized is so that ships that are lucky enough to get a bunch of relevant positive traits feel special.

Suggestions:
Some of these are vague or seem to be based on false premises, so for now I'll avoid responding to them individually unless you want to reiterate/clarify (Sorry, I've been responding to feedback for several hours now)

Also, when I look at my fleet strength evaluation I also think that your mod counts player level twice. Once as that "1%" and second time as "2.5% per officer level" when strength of individual ship is calculated.
Nope. Your player character doesn't count as an officer for this exact reason.

Now tell me if I am wrong, but I don't think that even level 50 player in frigate is going to contribute to a fight as much as a carrier, but according to the formula he would add more fleet strength.
Heh, let me tell you about our lord and saviour, the Afflictor class phase frigate...  ;)

Unless, everything went into "fleet" skills. I can see why it was done that way, however it not going to work in all situations. Luckily its very easy to tweak in settings :) Amazing mod!
Thanks! Yeah, the settings files were definitely worth the effort for mods like these. The character level influence on battle difficulty can definitely be a bit awkward in some situations, but I don't think it's possible to account for player character skills in any accurate way. I think of it more as a way to increase difficulty as the game progresses.

I would suggest adding some more text to FAQ, ie. "If you enjoy playing small, you might want to change the [setting] to [something]".
Ideally, I'd prefer for the default settings to accommodate all playstyles and fleet sizes. Your feedback has helped inform me about ways it might fail to do so. I'll have to think about possible adjustments.

Further reading also allowed me to deal with point 6... kinda. There is this "maxBattleDifficultyEstimation" set at default to be 2.0. I think you put a limit, so that even super impressive victory would not catapult player up to level 20 or higher in one go? Now this will also limit how your combat rating is going to rise from same victory, wouldn't it?
Precisely.

Is it possible to add another factor in xp calculation? Like "whatever XP I get... multiply it by 0.5". That way I can make impressive battles to have more impressive impact on ships' reputation, but by lowering overall XP by a factor of XYZ, prevent suddenly becoming too high level frigate pilot.
There's a vanilla setting for that called xpGainMult in "\starsector-core\data\config\settings.json"
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on August 14, 2019, 01:56:39 PM
@Sundog
Thanks for lengthy reply. I will explain my reasoning for my suggestions, but don't feel like you need to address those if you would otherwise work on improving your wonderful mods :)

1. Ignoring hull damage for purpose of estimating CR gain after winning battle.
You incentive very cautious gameplay by punishing hull damage. One can claim, that this is how highly skilled player would play, but one can also claim that such playstyle lacks tad bit of bravado. Swinging in, exchanging broadside fire with enemy? Nope, it's better to kite them to death... And you avoid this whole "is armour tank disadvantaged by this" debate.

2. On using hull damage when calculating CR gain after retreat
 Hull damage can be good indication of how successful hit-and-run raid was as the whole point is to attack and run before enemy can hit back. Also it is an indication of how successful retreat was.

3. On lowering CR based on number of lost ships
I think you mentioned that the game does not care if I win or lose? If all that matters is relative strength of deployed fleets, why losing a battle after retreat lowers CR?

4. (Maybe) CR can only fall if player could potentially increase it in given battle.
Currently, I will avoid fighting weak fleets at all cost, because fighting them would lower my CR. This punishes whole set of activities:
- killing smuggler to affect supply? Let's hope his fleet is big enough not to tank my CR
- pirate fleet on radar? Ups, too small, let other bounty hunter to take care of it
- oh look a supply convoy I got intel on and wanted to kill... Tsk, got into fight on way here and now its too weak...
Your solution for that problem is to field weaker ships but I am not sure how that will hold up when I am high level character. Basically you are punishing for being successful and earning levels or not traveling with small ships in fleet.

Lastly, I would add in FAQ a short guide on how to play with default setting and what to look for in order to reach high CR
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: vlad_1492 on August 16, 2019, 03:59:07 AM
Looks like I am late to the kudos party.

This mod is wonderful fun, really added some storytelling to my playthrough.

Thank you!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 16, 2019, 03:14:08 PM
@vlad_1492: You're quite welcome! Glad you like it ;D

@ActuallyUlysses:
Spoiler
Thanks for lengthy reply. I will explain my reasoning for my suggestions, but don't feel like you need to address those if you would otherwise work on improving your wonderful mods :)
As time consuming as it is to reply to feedback sometimes, I find that it's often much more useful than simply reading it because responding forces me to think through the pros and cons of a given issue.

You incentive very cautious gameplay by punishing hull damage.  One can claim, that this is how highly skilled player would play, but one can also claim that such playstyle lacks tad bit of bravado. Swinging in, exchanging broadside fire with enemy? Nope, it's better to kite them to death...
It's true that starship legends penalizes players for hull damage, but the base game does too, so I don't think it deviates from vanilla design goals in that regard. Part of what makes Starsector's combat great in my opinion is that it encourages players to be as aggressive as they can without making unnecessary sacrifices, and I think starship legend's rating system should reflect that (at least by default anyway).
Kiting isn't always the best way to avoid damage. Sometimes it's safer to charge in to make a quick kill.

2. On using hull damage when calculating CR gain after retreat
 Hull damage can be good indication of how successful hit-and-run raid was as the whole point is to attack and run before enemy can hit back. Also it is an indication of how successful retreat was.
You're talking about the hull damage you dealt to enemy ships? Still not sure what you're actually suggesting here.

I think you mentioned that the game does not care if I win or lose? If all that matters is relative strength of deployed fleets, why losing a battle after retreat lowers CR?
For the same reasons it might be lowered after a victory. The calculation is always the same.

Your solution for that problem is to field weaker ships but I am not sure how that will hold up when I am high level character. Basically you are punishing for being successful and earning levels or not traveling with small ships in fleet.
Ok, gotcha. So if you want to avoid the added penalties for deploying as many ships as you want, you should disable the whole battle difficulty mechanic from ruthless sector. The entire point of it is to discourage over-deployment. Here are the relevant settings:
RUTHLESS_SECTOR_OPTIONS.ini
    showBattleDifficultyNotification
    scaleXpGainBasedOnBattleDifficulty
RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
    battleDifficultyMult
    baseRating (not related to battle difficulty, but you might want to change it to compensate for the lost rating boost from battle difficulty)

Lastly, I would add in FAQ a short guide on how to play with default setting and what to look for in order to reach high CR
Yeah, I should definitely expand on that. The FAQ needs a lot of improvement in general, tbh.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: kilerdude56 on August 16, 2019, 10:01:33 PM
Quick question, if you're max level for your character, will your ship not get any experience to get traits? Or is that completely not how it works.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 17, 2019, 04:50:03 PM
Not how it works. Even at max level, your character will continue to accrue experience. I don't think there's any point at which your character will stop gaining experience, but if you suspect otherwise, please let me know. That would be a serious problem.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Erythion on August 17, 2019, 06:32:25 PM
Code
# COMBAT RATING CALCULATION #
"baseRating":0.5,
"battleDifficultyMult":0.5,
"damageTakenMult":3.0,
"damageDealtMult":0.5,
"damageDealtMinThreshold":0.0
I have these as my config and I'm quite satisfied with it. It doesn't overly punish deployed ships that only deal flux damage (had a lot of them, just pure needlers and ions), rewards seeing combat with >.5 rating, but greatly punishes taking damage.

But then my single Victory ship deals 700% damage each and every fight because all the enemy is already softened by the support ships and gets better reputation every time... Maybe I'm too generous with myself :P
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: stormbringer951 on August 18, 2019, 04:08:52 AM
1. Ignoring hull damage for purpose of estimating CR gain after winning battle.
You incentive very cautious gameplay by punishing hull damage. One can claim, that this is how highly skilled player would play, but one can also claim that such playstyle lacks tad bit of bravado. Swinging in, exchanging broadside fire with enemy? Nope, it's better to kite them to death... And you avoid this whole "is armour tank disadvantaged by this" debate.

The rating system doesn't primarily incentivize avoiding hull damage unless your ship also does very little damage. Doing lots of damage relative to how much your ship is worth is a lot more significant for rating contribution than the % of hull damage taken; in extreme cases I've personally gotten more than 10% rating gain in a battle where my ship was destroyed.

This isn't even necessarily a player-only thing; I have some recklessly-piloted AI ships that take large amounts of hull damage regularly, but stay at 100% rating because they kill very large numbers of enemy ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Rutaki on August 18, 2019, 08:32:17 AM
Starship Legends 1.2.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

Added a file for adjusting the percent of damage taken that is counted for rating calculation: "\sun_sl\data\hull_regen_ships.csv"
   This is primarily for ships that regenerate hull damage, and currently only applies to the Excelsior and Royco (from ship and weapon pack), with a 50% reduction
   Please let me know of any other ships that regenerate hull and should be adjusted

Noir faction ships (mod Artefact) regenerate Hull and Armor in combat while having at least X amount of CR (I believe it is from 85% upwards)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.1.13 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 18, 2019, 12:39:53 PM
Noir faction ships (mod Artefact) regenerate Hull and Armor in combat while having at least X amount of CR (I believe it is from 85% upwards)
Thank you! I'll check out those ships and try to figure out what a good reduction would be for them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 18, 2019, 03:55:52 PM
I think the biggest problem with starship legends is that the rating system is simultaneously too difficult for new players and too easy for expert players. It's also impossible to make the rating system fair. In spite of how much many people would hate it, I'm considering disabling the rating system by default and instead making traits have an equal chance to be good or bad regardless of how well a ship has performed. Or I might just reduce the influence of rating on trait goodness. Open to suggestions!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Taverius on August 19, 2019, 12:38:00 AM
Reduce it so its a more minor thing.

Then while its possible to game it, its not really worth it, and if you screw up or go all science dog no clue what im doing on it its not crippling. And you can also stop worrying about getting it 100% correct, which is impossibru because like all such game systems it WILL be gamed.

I mean personally I'm fine with it as is, but if you have to change it ...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on August 19, 2019, 06:13:12 AM
@Sundog
I think rating system is great. After I tweaked the numbers in settings it works very well for me. I think the issue is that you try to support all types of playstyles with system that does not account for all variations.

Ie. I play small and invest in "piloted ship" skills, meaning that your balancing of how skills affecting fleet strength are off in my case. Luckily you added settings and we are fine.

I understand that it is preferable for mod to work for most people out of the box and account for as much as possible, but in short term I think it's better to make people aware how to tweak it to fit their playstyle. It's really nice to know that your battle performance has a meaningful impact on ship's reputation :)

Edit: without some way of affecting ship's reputation via combat rating it becomes more of a random thing. I think it would help to also ie. Explicitly state that even if ship gets bad rep, it can change in the future. I learned about it recently and felt kinda dumb for selling ships with bad rep instead of working towards improving it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Warmasta on August 20, 2019, 10:11:06 PM
I feel like the disadvantage this mod gives to armor tank ships is realistic.
Think about it, if you are on a ship that regularly gets large chunks blown off it you wouldn't feel very safe, or confident in the ship.
I for one would feel much safer on an astral than an onslaught if a battle were to happen.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: TrashMan on August 21, 2019, 03:51:56 AM
Regarding regenerating ships - couldn't it be auto-detected by looking if he hull/armor values actually goes up in battle?

Or even simpler, if at the end of the battle the damage taken is greater than the total HP value of the ship?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sarissofoi on August 21, 2019, 07:38:04 AM
I feel like the disadvantage this mod gives to armor tank ships is realistic.
Think about it, if you are on a ship that regularly gets large chunks blown off it you wouldn't feel very safe, or confident in the ship.
I for one would feel much safer on an astral than an onslaught if a battle were to happen.

Well but coming back in one piece but zero casaulties even if shot would be a great morale booster and legend maker.
Also carriers don't suffer at all now if they stay away - even if they have tremendous pilot losses.
Imagine getting send on a carrier that burn dozens fighter pilots per fight - even if ship don't get shoot at.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Euripides on August 21, 2019, 11:12:07 AM
Is it possible to change the mod's settings to punish crew losses more than hull damage?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 21, 2019, 11:32:26 AM
Reduce it so its a more minor thing.
Yeah, I think that's what I'll do.

I think it would help to also ie. Explicitly state that even if ship gets bad rep, it can change in the future. I learned about it recently and felt kinda dumb for selling ships with bad rep instead of working towards improving it.
Yeah, it's been quite a while since I refurbished the original post. I think if I explain things more clearly it would resolve a lot of the issues people run into.

Regarding regenerating ships - couldn't it be auto-detected by looking if he hull/armor values actually goes up in battle?
Yes, that could tell me whether or not a ship has regenerated hull, but it wouldn't tell me how much it relies on regenerating hull as a defense mechanism.

Or even simpler, if at the end of the battle the damage taken is greater than the total HP value of the ship?
Same problem as above, as well as not working if the ship takes less than 100% damage during the battle.

Is it possible to change the mod's settings to punish crew losses more than hull damage?
I'm afraid not. Starship legends doesn't track crew losses at all.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Degernase on August 24, 2019, 05:04:15 PM
Recently got this mod and just finished my first significant battle, I really like the idea of it but there are some issues that are hard to overlook.

First of all, why do reserved ships gain traits? Not only that, it seems to always be negative because they of course didn't contribute.
Secondly I don't really understand how well I'm supposed to perform in order to get a positive trait, sent out my poorly equipped Paragon (still early in the game on this playthrough) and a Outlander against a full Hegemony Grand Invasion Fleet supported by a regular Invasion Fleet in order to protect a Tri-Tachyon colony.

My damage inflicted is 353% and damage sustained is 17%, I got +8.1 rating but regardless of this was rewarded with a negative trait. Really took away any feelings of joy after struggling through a tough battle.

After coming back to the mod page I realized that I'm using the Ruthless Sector settings but even then this seems pretty ridiculous to me.
But it doesn't really explain why reserved ships get bombarded with negative traits, I could live with it being tough to get positive traits but automatic negative traits on non participating ships is a deal breaker. This also increases the frustration of when the AI inevitably pulls some dumb stunt, which is already a point of great mental anguish in my life.

Attached the log below, only the Paragon and Outlander were involved in the initial battle, the others were deployed for chasing.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Euripides on August 24, 2019, 06:12:08 PM
I'm finding the rating actually useful for helping me determine which of my ships are underperforming.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 24, 2019, 09:58:26 PM
My damage inflicted is 353% and damage sustained is 17%, I got +8.1 rating but regardless of this was rewarded with a negative trait.
So, with default settings, traits will adjust themselves to match the rating of a ship. For example, a ship with a rating of 70% will gradually adjust it's traits so that 70% of them are good and 30% are bad. So if your paragon already had one good trait, the next one is pretty much guaranteed to be negative because 50% is closer to it's rating of 59% than 100%. Don't worry though, that bad trait will eventually go away if your paragon maintains a high enough rating. There is a way to configure starship legends to award traits based only on performance from the previous battle, as you seem to expect. Take a look at the "options presets" in the original post. You might be interested in the "better immersion" one at the bottom.

First of all, why do reserved ships gain traits? Not only that, it seems to always be negative because they of course didn't contribute.
Civilian ships gain traits even when they're not deployed because there generally isn't any reason to deploy them. Eventually I want to make civilian ships earn traits for experience gained outside of combat instead. There's supposed to be a flat 50% chance for them to gain a good or bad trait, so this looks like a bug to me. The chance for eight ships to get a negative trait at the same time should be less than 0.04%. In fact, given that you're using ruthless sector settings, I think I may know what's wrong and I should be able to fix it in the next day or two. Until then, you might want to use Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) to clear the reputations from your civilian ships.
Quote
clearRep Atlas
clearRep Colosus
clearRep Buffalo
Sorry about the trouble!


I'm finding the rating actually useful for helping me determine which of my ships are underperforming.
It can be handy, but I wouldn't rely on it too much. The rating system is very simplistic and designed with gameplay considerations in mind more than being a proper metric for combat performance. You might be interested in Combat Analytics (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11551.0)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tartiflette on August 25, 2019, 12:44:19 AM
I think a lot of the complains comes from a lack of understanding of the inner working of the mod. Which is a problem given how difficult it is to explain it quickly.

Maybe if the reputation traits where given after a delay instead of after the battle it would disociate them from the direct battle performance. The intel text could also be written with a bit more flavor to point out that the reputation traits aren't necessarily grounded in cold hard facts, especially negative ones.

Another way to deal with it would be to garantee a positive or negative trait if if there is a large swing in combat rating, say more than 5%. That way a really good ship that is cruising to a high combat rating wouln't get stacked with mixed traits that would get replaced over time until it reaches it's nominal rating.

Or maybe a new ship added to the fleet could get a starting rating dependent on its D mods: a pristine one could start at 100% rating since it's brand new and would only get negative traits after loosing that rating, but any dmod present would reduce the starting rating by 15% and early negative traits could be explained by the defective nature of the ship.

Crew loyalty could also be used to completely nullify the effect of negative traits making them more palatable (but wouldn't remove them) instead of improving good traits, while keeping the ppt boost.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Degernase on August 25, 2019, 03:11:39 AM
So, with default settings, traits will adjust themselves to match the rating of a ship. For example, a ship with a rating of 70% will gradually adjust it's traits so that 70% of them are good and 30% are bad. So if your paragon already had one good trait, the next one is pretty much guaranteed to be negative because 50% is closer to it's rating of 59% than 100%. Don't worry though, that bad trait will eventually go away if your paragon maintains a high enough rating. There is a way to configure starship legends to award traits based only on performance from the previous battle, as you seem to expect. Take a look at the "options presets" in the original post. You might be interested in the "better immersion" one at the bottom.
Thanks for the quick reply. I thought you might be able to replace bad traits by gaining enough reputation but then I probably got confused by the 8% reputation gain but still getting a negative trait. But I understand how it works now.

First of all, why do reserved ships gain traits? Not only that, it seems to always be negative because they of course didn't contribute.
Civilian ships gain traits even when they're not deployed because there generally isn't any reason to deploy them. Eventually I want to make civilian ships earn traits for experience gained outside of combat instead. There's supposed to be a flat 50% chance for them to gain a good or bad trait, so this looks like a bug to me. The chance for eight ships to get a negative trait at the same time should be less than 0.04%. In fact, given that you're using ruthless sector settings, I think I may know what's wrong and I should be able to fix it in the next day or two. Until then, you might want to use Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) to clear the reputations from your civilian ships.
Quote
clearRep Atlas
clearRep Colosus
clearRep Buffalo
Sorry about the trouble!
Even if it's a 50/50 system and this was caused by a bug in the Ruthless Sector settings I don't think that's an entirely fair system. Would it not be possible to take the average reputation gain (or loss) of all deployed ships and apply it (or half of it) to those in reserve? The way I understand it you can't ever get them above 50/50 good/bad if you're unable to change their reputation. I hate the idea of a system giving out negative traits that I'm completely unable to affect in any way. Also it was 14 ships (every last one of my civilian ships).



I think a lot of the complains comes from a lack of understanding of the inner working of the mod. Which is a problem given how difficult it is to explain it quickly.

Maybe if the reputation traits where given after a delay instead of after the battle it would disociate them from the direct battle performance. The intel text could also be written with a bit more flavor to point out that the reputation traits aren't necessarily grounded in cold hard facts, especially negative ones.

Another way to deal with it would be to garantee a positive or negative trait if if there is a large swing in combat rating, say more than 5%. That way a really good ship that is cruising to a high combat rating wouln't get stacked with mixed traits that would get replaced over time until it reaches it's nominal rating.
I really like the idea of guaranteeing positive or negative traits if the swing is high enough. Though disassociating reputation traits from combat doesn't make any practical sense since that's the only way to earn or lose reputation.
From a game design point of view you also want to reward or punish players when doing something good or bad and in a way where they can associate the outcome directly with the action they performed (such as doing very well or very poorly in a fight). But maybe this is exactly how the 'immersive' setting works?

I understand how the reputation and traits interplay now but it's not very intuitive with a system that will seemingly punish the player with bad traits after pulling off an amazing win against all odds simply for the purpose of balancing a % table. I'd rather it be based on flat numbers, say 50 is neutral and at 55 you get a positive trait, reaching 60 another positive. If you go back down to 55 you lose a positive one and you'll only start amassing negative ones when below 50.


Or maybe a new ship added to the fleet could get a starting rating dependent on its D mods: a pristine one could start at 100% rating since it's brand new and would only get negative traits after loosing that rating, but any dmod present would reduce the starting rating by 15% and early negative traits could be explained by the defective nature of the ship.

Crew loyalty could also be used to completely nullify the effect of negative traits making them more palatable (but wouldn't remove them) instead of improving good traits, while keeping the ppt boost.
Could be an idea but I prefer the other solution. D modded ships are meant to be somewhat of a mixed bag that are good for early game or smart usage to save supplies (like compromised storage on a salvage hull). But often the D mods are so terrible its hard to justify their use. If you make this change it would make the difference even bigger and further reduce the incentive to use ships with D mods which is the opposite of what the game needs.

D modded ships should if anything be randomized between maybe 20 and 80%. Who's to say that a ship didn't have a nearly shining reputation before getting destroyed?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Botaragno on August 25, 2019, 05:17:32 AM
It's hard to determine how much "experience" a ship needs to get a new rank, Combat Analysis can help but it does feel a lil hidden
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Alphascrub on August 25, 2019, 06:07:28 AM
@the discussion over dmods and traits. I would honestly say Dmoded ships should have the strongest traits. Take a car in real life you have fixed up but not completely replaced with factory new parts. Cars like that have a true personality to them. Certain things would still be broken others might be over engineered to fix problem. You learn these things as you operate the car, what gears it might stick in while shifting, how the blinkers might only work if you flick them in just the right way, how your heater might not work but your air conditioning is worse than a freezer. Ect. Sometimes you end up replacing a fuze or light bulb with something vastly better than the original because its all you had at the time. Basically I think of dmods are going to effect trait percentages they should increase them across the board, both positive and negative.

I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work to me,  a pain to balance to, but just my two cents.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Degernase on August 25, 2019, 06:39:03 AM
@the discussion over dmods and traits. I would honestly say Dmoded ships should have the strongest traits. Take a car in real life you have fixed up but not completely replaced with factory new parts. Cars like that have a true personality to them. Certain things would still be broken others might be over engineered to fix problem. You learn these things as you operate the car, what gears it might stick in while shifting, how the blinkers might only work if you flick them in just the right way, how your heater might not work but your air conditioning is worse than a freezer. Ect. Sometimes you end up replacing a fuze or light bulb with something vastly better than the original because its all you had at the time. Basically I think of dmods are going to effect trait percentages they should increase them across the board, both positive and negative.

I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work to me,  a pain to balance to, but just my two cents.

I like this suggestion, could maybe boost (both negative and positives as suggested) traits by 5-10% per D-mod. Would make D-mod ships a trade-off to consider even in the lategame where reduced supply cost is mostly negligible compared to stronger combat potential.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Orcling on August 25, 2019, 06:37:23 PM
I love the leveling system but it isn't entirely fair to support ships- and I don't mean civilian ships that arent even deployed, someone else mentioned those.
I mean dedicated escort ships for example, that ONLY shoot down missiles or bombers/fighters. Point Defenders, so to say. Or distraction Kites. They don't take any damage but they never do any hull damage either, so their Combat Reputation will always go down no matter how "well" they do. My Heron Carrier who is covered in Large PD Lasers and only has Interceptors has a Reputation of 30%(And it's still going down), even though he never took a single Hull damage in any of the battles he's in. All he does is sit in the backline and shoot down  :(

No idea how to fix this.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Killgarth on August 25, 2019, 07:15:35 PM
>ship lore customization mods
THATS THE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL *** BABY GIVE IT TO ME
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tackywheat1 on August 25, 2019, 11:07:01 PM
If only I had this mod when I started.... My Apogee and shrike (I have soloed pirate stations with the shrike) would probably be legendary with virtually no negative traits
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 26, 2019, 02:50:17 AM
Starship Legends 1.2.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

FIXED:
Default RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini settings will no longer cause civilian ships to receive nothing but bad traits
Battle reports will no longer display loyalty changes for ships that do not yet have a reputation

ADDED:
New setting "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" to easily change the likelihood for civilian ships to get good traits

CHANGES:
The default rating formula has been adjusted, reducing the effects of both taking and dealing hull damage by half
The rating of Noir ships (from the Artifact mod) is now less affected by hull damage due to their reliance on hull regeneration
Settings are now loaded using getMergedJSONForMod, making it possible to override them with other mods (including personal tweaks mods)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.0 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 27, 2019, 01:37:09 AM
Probable incoming change:
Another way to deal with it would be to garantee a positive or negative trait if if there is a large swing in combat rating, say more than 5%. That way a really good ship that is cruising to a high combat rating wouln't get stacked with mixed traits that would get replaced over time until it reaches it's nominal rating.
I really like this idea. It solves two problems at once, and while it complicates things a bit, it's intuitive. I think I'll end up doing this, or something similar. In fact, I think I might just make it so that ships that improve their rating at all can't get new negative traits from that battle, and vice versa.

@Tartiflette:
Spoiler
I think a lot of the complains comes from a lack of understanding of the inner working of the mod. Which is a problem given how difficult it is to explain it quickly.
Oh, for sure. I updated the original post a few days ago, so hopefully that will help.

Maybe if the reputation traits where given after a delay instead of after the battle it would disociate them from the direct battle performance.
True. It's ironic that this mod started out using delayed notifications and traits based only on the most recent battle, and now does the opposite. The biggest problem with the notifications was that it could end up creating some pretty serious spam. Battle reports were the solution to that. I'm having a hard time thinking of any sort of hybrid that would work well.

The intel text could also be written with a bit more flavor to point out that the reputation traits aren't necessarily grounded in cold hard facts, especially negative ones.
I've tried to do just that, but I'll try to figure out a way to do it better.

Or maybe a new ship added to the fleet could get a starting rating dependent on its D mods: a pristine one could start at 100% rating since it's brand new and would only get negative traits after loosing that rating, but any dmod present would reduce the starting rating by 15% and early negative traits could be explained by the defective nature of the ship.
I would personally prefer that all ships start on a level playing field, but perhaps I'm not seeing some benefit to gameplay that you are.

Crew loyalty could also be used to completely nullify the effect of negative traits making them more palatable (but wouldn't remove them) instead of improving good traits, while keeping the ppt boost.
I feel like high loyalty is already too powerful due to it's effect on traits, and I'm not too concerned about negative traits bothering some people, because they have the option to turn them off. A little power creep is a bit of an inevitability with a mod like this, but I want to keep it under control as much as possible, at least with default settings.
[close]

@Degernase:
Spoiler
Even if it's a 50/50 system and this was caused by a bug in the Ruthless Sector settings I don't think that's an entirely fair system. Would it not be possible to take the average reputation gain (or loss) of all deployed ships and apply it (or half of it) to those in reserve? The way I understand it you can't ever get them above 50/50 good/bad if you're unable to change their reputation. I hate the idea of a system giving out negative traits that I'm completely unable to affect in any way.
Yeah, that's understandable. Hopefully the new bonusChanceForCivilianShips setting will be able to alleviate some of your frustration. Personally, I like the RNG in this instance. Even at 50/50, starship legends is unlikely to make the civilian ships in your fleet weaker than they would be without it, because you can choose which ones you keep. It would certainly be possible to base civilian ship trait gain on average rating changes, but it would cause a lot of minor complications and confusion while inflating power creep. If I could snap my fingers and make it an optional setting I would, but I'm not convinced it's worth the work it would take.

From a game design point of view you also want to reward or punish players when doing something good or bad and in a way where they can associate the outcome directly with the action they performed (such as doing very well or very poorly in a fight).
Good point. That's what I should've told him!
[close]

It's hard to determine how much "experience" a ship needs to get a new rank, Combat Analysis can help but it does feel a lil hidden
True. In fact, earning new traits is based on RNG. Earning more XP in a battle makes it more likely to get a new trait, but XP does not accumulate for the purpose of earning new traits.

@the discussion over dmods and traits. I would honestly say Dmoded ships should have the strongest traits. Take a car in real life you have fixed up but not completely replaced with factory new parts. Cars like that have a true personality to them. Certain things would still be broken others might be over engineered to fix problem. You learn these things as you operate the car, what gears it might stick in while shifting, how the blinkers might only work if you flick them in just the right way, how your heater might not work but your air conditioning is worse than a freezer. Ect. Sometimes you end up replacing a fuze or light bulb with something vastly better than the original because its all you had at the time. Basically I think of dmods are going to effect trait percentages they should increase them across the board, both positive and negative.

I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work to me,  a pain to balance to, but just my two cents.
All true, and I think this could be a pretty neat mechanic if done correctly, but yeah, the work involved to get it working well would be pretty daunting. Maybe there could be a few traits similar to battle scarred and scrap heap that would be affected by d-mods instead of affecting them. Not sure what stat it would modify though. Hmm...

>ship lore customization mods
THATS THE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL *** BABY GIVE IT TO ME
;D

@Orcling:
Spoiler
I love the leveling system but it isn't entirely fair to support ships
Yeah, this is a longstanding issue that I haven't found a good solution to yet. I might be able to boost dedicated PD ships, but how could I possibly quantify the value of something like distraction kites? The only real solutions I've come up with involve removing damage dealt from the equation and making all ships that participate in a battle have the same battle score.

My Heron Carrier who is covered in Large PD Lasers and only has Interceptors has a Reputation of 30%(And it's still going down), even though he never took a single Hull damage in any of the battles he's in.
With default settings it shouldn't be possible for a ship that has never taken hull damage to have a rating lower than 50%. Did you edit the options? If not, this could be a new bug.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: boogiebob on August 27, 2019, 08:01:47 AM
My two cent after trying this for a few days- noticeably every ship is worse-off than better, this is with all-too frequent repairs on my parts via the console to try and get a single worthy trait.
Worse yet, overdriven phase ships just get railed- 3 famous or whatever level harbingers had 5 negative a 1 positive. The idea that the rating be based on CR over time in battle is ridiculous, because you have no direct control over it other than the loadout you choose.

The mod concept is nice, but needs way more fleshing out to be useful rather than deleterious.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 27, 2019, 10:02:58 AM
My two cent after trying this for a few days- noticeably every ship is worse-off than better, this is all-too frequent repairs on my parts via the console to try and get a single worthy trait.
Unfortunately, the rating system will be too hard for some people and too easy for others no matter how it works. To change it, you might want to edit STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini found in the mod's folder. If you like, you can disable negative traits entirely.

The idea that the rating be based on CR over time in battle is ridiculous, because you have no direct control over it other than the loadout you choose.
I agree. That's why rating is not (and has never been) based on CR loss.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: CitizenJoe on August 27, 2019, 07:26:46 PM
Hey, just wanted to add that the mod's default ruthless sector config isnt really working great. Its pretty much guaranteed that any ship participating in a low-difficulty battle will lose combat rating if it takes even a single glancing hit to armor and will seemingly never gain any rating for winning even on a flawless victory. Captain confidence also seems to steadily decrease if you regularly engage fleets significantly weaker than yours. Dis-incentivizing engaging in combat seems a little odd.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 27, 2019, 07:49:55 PM
Yeah, I think I might've made the default settings with ruthless sector a little too ruthless. Generally, I think I'll start making the rating system more forgiving than I personally want it to be. People don't seem to mind when it's too easy, but I get all kinds of complaints about it being too hard.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: CitizenJoe on August 27, 2019, 09:05:38 PM
Actually, now that I'm testing it, something is up since the latest update. I replaced the ruthless settings with vanilla settings and combat ratings are still tanking in general even with flawless battles against similarly sized fleets. Even after changing to vanilla settings, One of my fast carriers, over the course of 5 fairly large battles, has killed roughly 6 frigates, tanked zero damage, but has gone from 51% and confident to 40% and insubordinate
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: crowman on August 28, 2019, 06:47:47 AM
While the progression is nice, it would be even nicer if you could lock-in traits permanently. I'd gladly pay the entire cost of a pristine ship per locked trait and I think that would open up avenues for mothballing and rerolling ships from scratch, locking desirable traits, rinse and repeat until once achieves heaven perfection.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 28, 2019, 08:59:03 AM
Actually, now that I'm testing it, something is up since the latest update. I replaced the ruthless settings with vanilla settings and combat ratings are still tanking in general even with flawless battles against similarly sized fleets. Even after changing to vanilla settings, One of my fast carriers, over the course of 5 fairly large battles, has killed roughly 6 frigates, tanked zero damage, but has gone from 51% and confident to 40% and insubordinate
I just fought a few battles to test this, but I got the results I would expect each time. Would you mind showing me your options file? It shouldn't be possible to get a rating below 50% without taking damage if you have baseRating set to the default of 0.5

While the progression is nice, it would be even nicer if you could lock-in traits permanently.
I think a Darkest Dungeon style trait/quirk locking system could work well, but unfortunately that would require an interface for choosing which traits to lock, and there's no good way to make an interface like that as far as I know.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Rutaki on August 30, 2019, 09:01:36 AM
Hello again, I have a suggestion on how to implement the reputation to enemy fleets, I don't know the difficulty or if it is even possible to implement but here it goes (at least serve as some inspiration).

The chance of each reputation rank scales according to the Admiral level (those with star icon on the side of the ship) and officer that the ship has, and according to Admiral and all the officers the fleet has when the ship doesn't have both.

Chances in general without considering lv:

Enemy Admiral: Significant chance of being Well-know and Famous, a low of being Notable and Legendary

Enemy Official: Significant chance of being Notable and Well-know, not so high of being Famous and unrated, super low of being Legendary (Chances of reaching X rank is reduced if admiral is lower)

Enemy Ships without Admiral/Official: Significant chance of not being ranked or notable, low to be well know, super low to be famous and almost impossible to be legendary (Chances of reaching X rank is reduced if admiral is lower)

[Redacted] Enemy Ships: consider all of the above, but have no chance of having a Malus trait, to make the least sense, the rank names and description are different for them, something like Delta/Gamma/Beta/Alpha rank and a description of how "adaptable" each one is perhaps?

Enemy Ships Without D-mods: Good chance to have a Bonus Trait

Enemy ships with D-mods: For each D-mod increase the chance of having an Malus Trait until reaching the X%/X% limit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on August 30, 2019, 04:14:57 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I do have a plan for giving non-player ships traits, and it even incorporates some of your ideas. I'll be sure to keep your suggestions in mind when I finally get around to implementing it!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Rutaki on August 30, 2019, 05:21:14 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I do have a plan for giving non-player ships traits, and it even incorporates some of your ideas. I'll be sure to keep your suggestions in mind when I finally get around to implementing it!

yay!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JDCollie on September 01, 2019, 11:35:06 AM
Out of curiosity, does Legends care about total hull damage in making the battle performance calculations, or final hull damage?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: EvilPineapple on September 01, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Is there a way to prevent the guaranteed rating loss when fighting single ships? If I'm chasing the one frigate that retreated I lose rating even if I take 0 damage. I know autoresolve doesn't affect rating but then I have to deploy multiple ships to get the same success rate.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: JDCollie on September 02, 2019, 06:05:10 AM
Is there a way to prevent the guaranteed rating loss when fighting single ships? If I'm chasing the one frigate that retreated I lose rating even if I take 0 damage. I know autoresolve doesn't affect rating but then I have to deploy multiple ships to get the same success rate.
Have the ship you send be half the deployment cost of the single ship you are fighting. Even if you take damage you'll still have a good rating.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 02, 2019, 01:58:12 PM
Out of curiosity, does Legends care about total hull damage in making the battle performance calculations, or final hull damage?
It's total percent of damage taken during the battle. So if a ship starts a battle at 80% and ends at 50%, it only sustained 30% hull damage.


Is there a way to prevent the guaranteed rating loss when fighting single ships? If I'm chasing the one frigate that retreated I lose rating even if I take 0 damage. I know autoresolve doesn't affect rating but then I have to deploy multiple ships to get the same success rate.
Have the ship you send be half the deployment cost of the single ship you are fighting. Even if you take damage you'll still have a good rating.
Yup. Also, the higher your rating is, the harder it becomes to raise it further. If a ship starts with a rating of 40% and scores a rating of 90% in a battle, its rating will improve by 4%, but if a ship with a rating of 100% scores 90% in a battle, it will go down by 1%. I think the main problem with pursuit battles is that ships don't earn rating for dealing damage to civilian ships. I think I'll change that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: EvilPineapple on September 02, 2019, 10:34:36 PM
My problem was that my smallest ship vs a single fleeing frigate will very often lose rating, forcing me to chose between higher supply costs of an multiship autoresolve or losing rating by personally flying one ship. There doesn't seem to be a good way to fix this other than just bringing more ships that are weaker which unfortunately means more cost anyway.

Civ ships giving rating seems like a good idea tho. Reward that Kite for killing a Prometheus!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 03, 2019, 07:36:12 AM
My problem was that my smallest ship vs a single fleeing frigate will very often lose rating, forcing me to chose between higher supply costs of an multiship autoresolve or losing rating by personally flying one ship. There doesn't seem to be a good way to fix this other than just bringing more ships that are weaker which unfortunately means more cost anyway.
Right. I understand your concern and agree that it's a problem, but I see how I might not have given that impression.

Civ ships giving rating seems like a good idea tho. Reward that Kite for killing a Prometheus!
Yea, it should work without any issues. My original thinking was based on difficulty calculation for ruthless sector, but in this case I think it makes perfect sense to improve rating for destroying civilian ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: crowman on September 03, 2019, 11:50:56 AM
The easiest fix, imo, would be to allow us to lock our ship's rating, permanently, with no way of reversing such decision. No more increases and no more decreases, kind of like receiving a Medal of Honor or timely retiring dead weights.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 03, 2019, 12:46:32 PM
I think a feature like that would be a good addition. I'm not sure how best to offer that choice in an immersive, non-clunky way though. I'll have to think about it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Tartiflette on September 03, 2019, 02:36:45 PM
Other solutions:
- pursuits have capped rating swings
- pursuits can only increase rating, ignored otherwise
- pursuits are ignored if autoresolve is used
- pursuits are simply ignored entirely
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: asdlkj1z on September 04, 2019, 07:11:51 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.

That being said, I would like to ask if there are these settings I can turn off or alter.
1). What setting do I change to disable ALL REPUTATION CHANGES(+ or -) to ships who weren't deployed in combat?
2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5? Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
3). Is there a way to increase the speed of losing reputation? Mothballing 30 days for each reputation is a bit long.

Please let me know. Thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: krisslanza on September 04, 2019, 07:29:10 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.

That being said, I would like to ask if there are these settings I can turn off or alter.
1). What setting do I change to disable ALL REPUTATION CHANGES(+ or -) to ships who weren't deployed in combat?
2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5? Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
3). Is there a way to increase the speed of losing reputation? Mothballing 30 days for each reputation is a bit long.

Please let me know. Thanks again!

I'm trying to figure out #2 myself (beyond just turning off bad traits), but for #3 I got you covered! In the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS look for this:
"daysMothballedPerTraitToResetReputation":30, # A ship must remain mothballed (in or out of storage) for a consecutive number of days to lose it's reputation

;)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: asdlkj1z on September 04, 2019, 07:48:08 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.

That being said, I would like to ask if there are these settings I can turn off or alter.
1). What setting do I change to disable ALL REPUTATION CHANGES(+ or -) to ships who weren't deployed in combat?
2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5? Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
3). Is there a way to increase the speed of losing reputation? Mothballing 30 days for each reputation is a bit long.

Please let me know. Thanks again!

I'm trying to figure out #2 myself (beyond just turning off bad traits), but for #3 I got you covered! In the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS look for this:
"daysMothballedPerTraitToResetReputation":30, # A ship must remain mothballed (in or out of storage) for a consecutive number of days to lose it's reputation

;)

Ah thank you very much. I have changed it to 14 days instead.

Update: I have also changed traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips to 0. I hope this means reserved ships of all kinds will no longer get any reputation changes.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 04, 2019, 09:22:50 PM
First things first, I think you're doing amazing work bringing this mod to the community. Its really a robust and unique system for us to become more attached to our officers & crews. Thank you for your work.
;D

2). How do I increase the ratio of good to bad traits? Should I change the multiplier of damagetaken to .5 and damagegiven to 1.5?
I'm trying to figure out #2 myself (beyond just turning off bad traits)
Yeah, you're on the right track.
Higher damageDealtMult will increase rating more when your ships deal hull damage
Higher damageTakenMult will reduce rating more when they take damage
Higher baseRating will increase ratings no matter what
There's a detailed description of how the rating system works in the FAQs section on the first page of this thread.

Even with level 20 officers and d-modless ships I can't seem to get mostly good traits(Combat rating is really hard to get with big fleet battles).
Yeah, it's pretty brutal at the moment. I'll be making it a little easier soon.

I have also changed traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips to 0. I hope this means reserved ships of all kinds will no longer get any reputation changes.
Yup! By default civilian ships are the only ones that can get traits without being deployed.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: asdlkj1z on September 05, 2019, 08:04:02 AM
Ok I doubled the damageDealtMult and halved the damageTakenMult to they're both .25 now. Will report back how they feel after I test a new campaign.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nerzhull_AI on September 08, 2019, 07:27:51 PM
Some of my ships are getting new traits despite them not being in any fight whatsoever. Interestingly, that's true only for my Prometheus and Atlas ships (basically giant fuel/supply ships). If it's intended, then so be it, just wanted to clarify it.
Overall mod is fantastic, and i'm grateful for your work.


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.1 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 08, 2019, 08:42:11 PM
Some of my ships are getting new traits despite them not being in any fight whatsoever. Interestingly, that's true only for my Prometheus and Atlas ships (basically giant fuel/supply ships). If it's intended, then so be it, just wanted to clarify it.
It's intended and can also be disabled (traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips). By default, only civilian ships will get traits if they're not deployed.

Overall mod is fantastic, and i'm grateful for your work.
Thanks!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 09, 2019, 11:17:39 AM
Starship Legends 1.2.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.0)

This update makes the rating system more fair and fixes a few issues.

Added a new contributing factor to rating calculation that is meant to benifit support ships
   Ratings are now increased based on hull damage dealt by all allied ships during any engagement in which the ship was deployed
   "supportMult" setting added to the options file
Added a console command for uninstalling Starship Legends (uninstallStarshipLegends). See FAQs for how to use it properly
Added more flavor text for AI reputation hullmods (thanks to Avanitia for all the help with this!)
Fixed a mostly harmless error that could occur during battle when a trait triggered a malfunction for disabled ships
Fixed trait effects not propegating to the sub-sections of multi-section ships
Fixed: Reputation hullmods are now removed from autofit goal variants prior to game saves
Changed: Ships will no longer recieve any type of negative reputation adjustment after a battle in which their rating improved, and vice versa
Changed: Dealing hull damage to civilian ships now improves rating, making rating improvement via pursuit more viable

Edit: also, the default value for useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty has been changed from true to false
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 09, 2019, 11:37:40 AM
i noticed one of the changes in this update is
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":true
to
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":false

how much this changes the battle difficulty when Ruthless Sector is active alongside ?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Mitroll on September 09, 2019, 11:38:18 AM
Changed: Ships will no longer recieve any type of negative reputation adjustment after a battle in which their rating improved, and vice versa

Love this mod, but I feel like this change is going to result in getting 50/50 good/bad mods once you get to the point where you're struggling to get the rep adjustment to go any higher. (Unless you get it to 100%)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 09, 2019, 12:11:05 PM
i noticed one of the changes in this update is
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":true
to
"useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty":false
Oh, I forgot to add that to the patch notes. Good catch!

how much this changes the battle difficulty when Ruthless Sector is active alongside ?
That mostly depends on your character level, the officers involved on both sides, and your ruthless sector configuration. The biggest difference when useRuthlessSectorToCalculateBattleDifficulty is true, is that your ships will earn less rating from damage when they have high level captains (which is one of the reasons I turned it off). It also means enemy ships with high level captains wont award as much rating when you damage them. The biggest problem was that it was effectively doubling the strength calculation adjustments, because it was causing them to be factored into both battle difficulty and damage dealt.

Changed: Ships will no longer recieve any type of negative reputation adjustment after a battle in which their rating improved, and vice versa

Love this mod, but I feel like this change is going to result in getting 50/50 good/bad mods once you get to the point where you're struggling to get the rep adjustment to go any higher. (Unless you get it to 100%)
It shouldn't. In fact, the biggest practical difference should be when rating is steadily changing, because only adjustments that match the rating changes will be allowed. When a ship's rating becomes stable, it should work out the same way as before. Traits are still chosen and adjusted the same way. This rule will just veto reputation changes that don't make much sense based on the rating change from battles.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 09, 2019, 05:42:17 PM
is it possible to add more / custom reputation tiers ? (would be nice if doable via .ini)



Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 09, 2019, 06:27:14 PM
Unfortunately there's no practical way to do that. However, you can increase the number of traits you get for each tier by editing the ini file (traitsPerTier).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: yorik on September 11, 2019, 12:11:44 AM
First, I would like to thank you for your great mod. But, I have a little „problem“ - it gave a bad trait to a ship kept in reserves. Is that intended behavior? It seems a little bit odd to me. There is nothing the crew could do bad - they were just watching the battle from a distance. :-D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 11, 2019, 12:19:08 AM
Yup. That's intended. By default civilian ships have a 50% chance for new traits to be negative. It's pure RNG. If you want civilian ships to only earn good traits you can change bonusChanceForCivilianShips to 1 in the options file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: yorik on September 11, 2019, 04:29:01 AM
Ok, thank you for the answer. The problem was not a bad trait for a civilian ship but a bad trait (or any trait) for a ship that didn’t participate in a battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Histidine on September 11, 2019, 04:49:54 AM
Added a new contributing factor to rating calculation that is meant to benifit support ships
   Ratings are now increased based on hull damage dealt by all allied ships during any engagement in which the ship was deployed
Nice, hopefully this also fixes the problem where a high-performing ship could cause other ships to bleed rating by stealing all their kills.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 11, 2019, 08:15:09 AM
Ok, thank you for the answer. The problem was not a bad trait for a civilian ship but a bad trait (or any trait) for a ship that didn’t participate in a battle.
Yeah, I hear ya. In the future civilian ships will earn traits only for XP earned outside of battle, but for now battles are the only way for them to get traits.

Added a new contributing factor to rating calculation that is meant to benifit support ships
   Ratings are now increased based on hull damage dealt by all allied ships during any engagement in which the ship was deployed
Nice, hopefully this also fixes the problem where a high-performing ship could cause other ships to bleed rating by stealing all their kills.
It should help, but the problem still exists. I've thought about maybe making excess rating gains for one ship spill over to all the others somehow, but that might get hairy in terms of implementation, not to mention complicating an already-too-complex mechanic.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Szass Tam on September 17, 2019, 03:07:29 AM
Can i savely change ini setting mid game?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Erythion on September 17, 2019, 03:12:42 AM
Can you update the formula on the FAQ to contain supportMult?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 17, 2019, 09:36:59 AM
Can i savely change ini setting mid game?
You can change ini settings without starting a new game, but you do need to restart the game for the changes to take effect.

Can you update the formula on the FAQ to contain supportMult?
Done! Thanks for the reminder  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 17, 2019, 01:36:14 PM
sundog, to expand on that configurable / custom ranks

would need 2 arrays:
strings one to define names of custom ranks
integer to define the values

then into ini files go
e.g.
Code
customreptiers : {"customreptier1name","customreptier2name",};

Code
"customreptier1name": {xpToGuaranteeNewTrait:1, effectMulti:1.01};
"customreptier2name": {xpToGuaranteeNewTrait:1000, effectMulti:1.02};

in your code you can read that seamlessly like any other settings
and integrate it alongside your existing ranks

ofcourse you may expose even more values for granularity of options for each custom rank
i do hope i make some of sense with this ...

for example i would like to add some reputation tier from very low xp of the ship (e.g. from 1)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Buff Skeleton on September 18, 2019, 08:51:41 AM
This is such a wonderful mod. Thanks for the work put into it!

I'm really enjoying seeing how unique my ships become, and sometimes firing officers if nobody likes them, even if their stats are good. Really cool stuff.

If there's only one nitpick, it's very minor, and it's that stuff like tankers and freighters can become legendary even without ever spending a second in battle. It makes sense from a lore perspective I suppose, (people DO work on those ships, and people talk) but it might be nice if you could cap the maximum notoriety to Well-Known or something for non-combat ships, since the ones which actually fight are probably gonna get talked up the most at the bar.

Otherwise, fantastic mod. No complaints.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 18, 2019, 01:28:04 PM
sundog, to expand on that configurable / custom ranks
I can tell you put a lot of thought into this, and I appreciate the effort, but I'm well aware of what would need to be done in order to make the number of reputation tiers configurable. Unfortunately it would take far more work than I think it's worth. You're welcome to edit the mod yourself if you really want to. Everything you would need is freely available.

This is such a wonderful mod. Thanks for the work put into it!
Thanks! It's been a fun project so far :)

If there's only one nitpick, it's very minor, and it's that stuff like tankers and freighters can become legendary even without ever spending a second in battle.
It should be quite a bit more difficult for civilian ships to become famous/legendary due the XP they get per battle being capped, but I haven't done enough late-game play-testing since I added that cap to know how well it works. In the dev version civilian ships only earn traits from non-combat XP (unless they're deployed of course), so that should help keep them in check. Not sure I'll keep it that way. I might just drastically reduce civilian trait chance after battle.

Anyway, regarding reputation limits for civilian ships, I'd prefer for it to remain possible, but unlikely, for them to become legendary. If there's sufficient demand for a limit then I might add an option for it, but first I want to see how things play out once they no longer get traits after battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Buff Skeleton on September 18, 2019, 02:25:33 PM
Yeah good point about capping -- after all, who's to say there isn't some lunatic out there flying a Prometheus as his flagship? That would definitely be deserving of legendary status, even if it didn't survive a single fight :P

I really like when I see logistics upgrades (or even downgrades, since those matter) on my logistics-oriented ships, though seeing a bunch of combat tweaks just kinda makes me chuckle. Ah yes, 5% stronger weapon mounts on an Atlas! Now I can finally take on those remnant battleships. I wonder how the crew even figures this stuff out if they never see battle, unless they spend all their bored hours simulating fights with the other freighters, tankers, salvage ships, and tugs in the fleet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Nerzhull_AI on September 18, 2019, 02:46:25 PM
Added more flavor text for AI reputation hullmods (thanks to Avanitia for all the help with this!)
Awesome. This mod makes everything better.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/nYE1qQO.png)
[close]
This is my life now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 18, 2019, 02:52:55 PM
@Nerzhull_AI:
Yeah, I was lazy with the AI reputation descriptions at first...
That's quite the ship! I promise not to tell any Luddites  ;)

@Buff Skeleton:
lol yeah, combat traits on civilian ships are basically just there to be duds and potential personality quirks. Maybe that buffalo crew really is uppity enough to think their freighter is deadly  ::)

I'd like to add enough logistical traits to make it more uncommon for civilian ships to get combat traits, but there aren't many possibilities that work well with both the trait system and fleet logistics.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Dwarden on September 18, 2019, 08:00:45 PM
hello sundog,

what i tried attempt was really simple addition to - settings files:

Spoiler

\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
Code
	
# SHIP REPUTATION TIERS # custom
 "nobody":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":00001, "effectMult":0.01, },
 "unskilled":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":00010, "effectMult":0.50, },
 "greenhorn":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":00100, "effectMult":1.00, },
 "rookie":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":01000, "effectMult":1.10, },
 "versed":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":10000, "effectMult":1.20, },
 "skilled":{    "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":20000, "effectMult":1.50, },
 "recognized":{ "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":40000, "effectMult":1.75, },
 "veteran":{    "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":60000, "effectMult":2.00, },
# SHIP REPUTATION TIERS # original
 "notable":{    "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":80000, "effectMult":3, },
 "wellknown":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":400000, "effectMult":4, },
 "famous":{     "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":2000000, "effectMult":5, },
 "legendary":{  "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":10000000, "effectMult":6, },
   
and that accompanied with adding the related hullmod tiers entries
there are two with tier equal 0 for test too
(note the notable_test.png is just for test to see if it gets active)

\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\data\hullmods\hull_mods.csv
Code
name,id,tier,rarity,tech/manufacturer,tags,uiTags,base value,unlocked,hidden,hiddenEverywhere,cost_frigate,cost_dest,cost_cruiser,cost_capital,script,desc,short,sprite
Nobody,sun_sl_nobody,0,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain NOBODY characteristics.,Reputation of ship is NOBODY with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Unskilled,sun_sl_unskilled,0,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain UNSKILLED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is UNSKILLED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Greenhorn,sun_sl_greenhorn,1,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain GREENHORN characteristics.,Reputation of ship is GREENHORN with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Rookie,sun_sl_rookie,2,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain ROOKIE characteristics.,Reputation of ship is ROOKIE with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Versed,sun_sl_versed,3,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain VERSED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is VERSED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Skilled,sun_sl_skilled,4,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain SKILLED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is SKILLED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Recognized,sun_sl_recognized,5,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain RECOGNIZED characteristics.,Reputation of ship is RECOGNIZED with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Veteran,sun_sl_veteran,5,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has certain VETERAN characteristics.,Reputation of ship is VETERAN with certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable_test.png
Notable,sun_sl_notable,6,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has distinguished itself as having certain notable characteristics.,This ship has a reputation for having certain traits.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/notable.png
Well-Known,sun_sl_wellknown,7,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s is a well-known ship within your fleet.,This ship is well-known within your fleet.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/wellknown.png
Famous,sun_sl_famous,8,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s has achieved fame within military circles.,This ship is famous. People in military cirles have often heard of it.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/famous.png
Legendary,sun_sl_legendary,9,,,,,0,,TRUE,,0,0,0,0,starship_legends.hullmods.Reputation,The %s is a legend throughout the sector.,This ship is legendary. People across the entire sector tell stories about it.,sun_sl/graphics/hullmods/legendary.png
and some bad loyalty tiers
(for some reason adding those caused Error 8 in the UI of StarSector recommending to contact mod author)

\StarSector\mods\Starship Legends\sun_sl\data\loyalty_levels.csv
Code
id,name,cr_decay,trait_adjustment,base_improve_chance,base_worsen_chance,rating_required_to_improve,preposition,trait_adjust_desc
mutiny,Mutiny,60,-5,3.0,0.00,0.00,to,losing control
rebellious,Rebellious,50,-4,2.0,0.01,0.01,to,extremely worsening
disobedient,Disobedient,40,-3,1.8,0.02,0.03,to,rapidly worsening
openly_insubordinate,Openly Insubordinate,30,-2,1.6,0.03,0.05,to,significantly worsening
insubordinate,Insubordinate,20,-1,0.8,0.05,0.1,to,worsening
doubtful,Doubtful,10,0,0.4,0.1,0.3,of,
indifferent,Indifferent,0,0,0.2,0.2,0.5,to,
confident,Confident,-10,0,0.1,0.4,0.7,in,
loyal,Loyal,-20,1,0.05,0.8,0.9,to,improving
fiercely loyal,Fiercely Loyal,-30,2,0,1.6,2,to,significantly improving
yet
[close]
unfortunately i'm sure that will fail to work
as 7 of your class files has references to `notable` or `sun_sl_notable` etc.

i really don't want to rewrite the mod, just expand part with new entries, namely those:

reputation tiers - with new names, levels and linked experience, multipliers (feels hardcoded on too many class files)
loyalty tiers- again with new names, levels (seems that's hardcoded in LoyaltyLevel.class files too)
traits types - new trait names with various effects, description (seems that's hardcoded in reputation.class)

as you can can see,
what i aimed for was to create low experience tiers,
then to link them with even lower loyalty tiers
and planned to add various of additional traits

but because it's all hardcoded then i guess that's vain effort ;(

hence why i asked and plea that if and when you get time and mood
you shall add way define and load custom entries

to ensure your official files aren't overwritten/modded by e.g.

custom_hull_mods.csv
custom_loyalty_levels.csv
custom_traits.csv

and then being able to alter values for custom tiers within settings file(s)

of course , no matter what, you mod is really nice and i hope that's obvious

p.s.
so the error i mentioned above is caused by adding multiple tiers into loyalty_levels.csv
only one entry (line) with new loyalty tier works , two or more will throw error
each is correct and works w/o the other being added :(
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: captinjoehenry on September 21, 2019, 09:55:14 PM
Where do I go to save edit the traits that my ship has?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Takion Kasukedo on September 22, 2019, 11:38:47 AM
Starship Legends keeps getting some error(s) someways into the playthrough. It got one when I save-copied, which I don't know what the error from that is.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 23, 2019, 08:47:59 AM
Where do I go to save edit the traits that my ship has?
I would recommend using console commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0) for that. Sounds like you'll want to do something like this:
Quote
ClearRep
AddTrait deadly
AddTrait durable
...
You can use "list traits good" to see the names of all the positive traits.

Starship Legends keeps getting some error(s) someways into the playthrough. It got one when I save-copied, which I don't know what the error from that is.
Hey, thanks for reporting this. Can you tell me anything else about this error? Does it show up at the end of starsector.log? When else does it occur? Does it show a red error notification on the left side of the screen, or does the game crash?

Since you got an error when you saved, it's likely that starship legends just failed to remove reputation hullmods from your goal variants for some reason (it tries to do this before each save). If that's the case then it's nothing to worry about, but it's still something I'd really like to fix.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on September 27, 2019, 07:08:32 AM
I have an odd situation, where one of my ships just does not want to get more traits. The ship got the +CR time trait, and officer loyalty levels up, but that's it. All other ships on the fleet are famous/legendary by now. I tried selling it and buying an identical new one, but same thing happened: CR trait and nothing else.

I would use console to add traits, but I am genuinely confused why it's happening.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 27, 2019, 01:15:31 PM
Yeah, I'm confused too. That is a very strange bug. What's the ship? What mod is it from?

The ship got the +CR time trait
I'm not sure which trait you're referring to
Professional Crew - +CR limit
Industrious Crew - +CR recovery speed
Determined Crew - +peak performance time

My best guess as to what's happening is that something about the ship is causing an error in starship legends when it tries to choose a new trait for it, but only when it already has one trait. If that's the case, then an error will show up in the log when it happens.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on September 28, 2019, 02:56:14 AM
The trait was Determined Crew
The ship is SRA's Vardr battleship.

I looked at the log but do not seem to see any errors from Starship Legends.

Here's the log, where I loaded, teleported to an enemy fleet and saved right after the battle where the Vardr got a 250% contribution.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 29, 2019, 02:24:51 PM
Ok, so I couldn't reproduce any issues with the Varnr specifically, but I think I might know why it's not getting any new traits. The most recent version added a rule that prevents ships from getting negative traits after a battle in which their rating improved. The problem is that if a ship only  has one good trait, then in order for it to get a second trait it needs to either lose rating (to get a bad one) or have a rating of 100% (to get another good one), and I'm guessing your Varnr's rating has steadily improved without ever reaching 100%. Is that the case? Regardless, I consider this a serious issue, and I'll be adjusting that rule to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Sorry for the late reply. I was just about to post this yesterday morning when a branch fell from my neighbor's tree and knocked out my power and internet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Shad on September 30, 2019, 01:15:25 AM
Ok, so I couldn't reproduce any issues with the Varnr specifically, but I think I might know why it's not getting any new traits. The most recent version added a rule that prevents ships from getting negative traits after a battle in which their rating improved. The problem is that if a ship only  has one good trait, then in order for it to get a second trait it needs to either lose rating (to get a bad one) or have a rating of 100% (to get another good one), and I'm guessing your Varnr's rating has steadily improved without ever reaching 100%. Is that the case? Regardless, I consider this a serious issue, and I'll be adjusting that rule to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Sorry for the late reply. I was just about to post this yesterday morning when a branch fell from my neighbor's tree and knocked out my power and internet.
That does appear to be a likely explanation. The ship being a late-game capital, I think its rating was improving steadily  but not yet at 100%.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on September 30, 2019, 08:02:16 AM
Ok, cool. I'm glad there's (probably) not another issue at play here.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2019, 07:55:45 PM
There's a known issue in the current version that can lead to an error message when the game is saved and certain unusual conditions exist. It looks like this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/G9HlMRc.png)
[close]
This error is entirely harmless, so I'm going to put off releasing a new version until I can finish up some other things, but I wanted to let people know about it so it doesn't cause too much alarm.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 10, 2019, 11:19:03 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

New Features:
   Enemy fleets now have traits of their own, based on the fleet's faction and level of its commander
   Added a bar event that provides information about famous ships that you can acquire through post-battle salvage or derelict recovery
   Civilian ships now earn traits based on experience earned outside of combat, but no longer gain traits after battle (by default)

Combat Rating Calculation Improvements:
   When a ship earns a rating higher than 100% after a battle, the excess rating is now shared equally between all deployed ships
   Generally improved how the combat rating system decides whether a new trait should be good or bad
   Fixed an issue that could sometimes result in ships not earning new traits when they should
   
Added a slew of new settings to adjust how the new features work
Added two new trait types that adjust the effectiveness of missiles
Added a new icon for battle reports
Added a setting for disabling (and potentially uninstalling) starship legends: "removeAllDataAndFeatures"
Removed "UninstallStarshipLegends" console command in favor of the above setting
Fixed a harmless error message that would pop up on save when no variants were defined for a ship type
Fixed reputation hullmod listing loyalty levels for officers that are no longer in the fleet
Changed default days required per trait to reset a ship's reputation from 30 to 10
Changed: Traits now have more of an effect, especially at lower tiers
Changed: increased default baseRating from 0.5 to 0.75 to compensate for enemy fleets having mostly good traits
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 11, 2019, 05:00:27 AM

New Features:
   Civilian ships now earn traits based on experience earned outside of combat, but no longer gain traits after battle (by default)


The traits gained from this is completely random and ignores the " "ignoreAllMaluses":true,"  setting.

I turned the peacefulxp reputation gain off and I'm now getting an error in the background (red text telling me to contact modder) for Starship Legends everytime I run into a hostile remnant fleet to start combat. This does not happen when I try to engage pirates and it does not crash the game or anything so far.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: koalabog on October 11, 2019, 07:19:09 AM
The newest version seems to have a bugged interaction with Nexerelin. If a planets station is already destroyed and you "consider your military options" it causes an error and prevents the invade option from showing up.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: AsterPiano on October 11, 2019, 10:55:25 AM
I bought a couple of Hegemony auxiliary Buffalos and have been flying around doing some exploration missions for just under a year. One of them is now famous and the other is well-known.
Is this kind of pace intended? Because I don't feel like I've been doing that much. My character went from level 7 to level 11 during that time which I don't feel is a big jump. All of my civilian ships have some sort of extra traits, meanwhile my flagship hasn't gained any (though, I've only fought some derelict defenses with it so far).

Is gaining traits based on experience or is it also based on the money/reputation you earn? If it's both then I can kind of understand since the exploration missions have been paying pretty well and gaining my character some good reputation with various factions.

Example of civilian ships gaining traits despite very low exp gain
(https://i.imgur.com/bPumdut.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bfF0ptq.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: SCC on October 11, 2019, 11:20:04 AM
I assume that they didn't gain traits from those exact experience gain, but rather that is when they crossed trait thresholds (i.e. 19900 -> 20100) purely on accident. Those gains might not have been big, but they added together.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 01:10:28 PM
Thanks for the reports guys! I should be able to get a fixed version out soon!

I bought a couple of Hegemony auxiliary Buffalos and have been flying around doing some exploration missions for just under a year. One of them is now famous and the other is well-known.
Is this kind of pace intended?
Nope! It sounds like I set peaceful xp gain too high and didn't do enough playtesting to realize it. I'll reduce it significantly for the next version, but in the meantime you can change "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips" in the options file
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.0 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 01:53:53 PM
I turned the peacefulxp reputation gain off and I'm now getting an error in the background (red text telling me to contact modder) for Starship Legends everytime I run into a hostile remnant fleet to start combat.
I'm having a hard time reproducing this one. Could you send me the last hundred or so lines of the log file (starsector-core/starsector.log) after this error happens?

Edit: Hmm... so it looks like an error will occur at that point if the options file could not be read. Are you certain you didn't make any formatting mistakes when editing the peaceful xp gain rate? If that's the case, you should be getting an error when your save loads as well.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.2.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 03:12:31 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that would occur when "Consider your military options" was chosen for a market that has no defenses
Fixed a mod conflict that would prevent Nexerelin from showing the option to launch invasions on markets
Fixed ships getting negative traits via peaceful xp when the "ignoreAllMaluses" option is set to true
Fixed the likelihood of civilian ships to earn traits from peaceful xp being far too high (reduced by 80%)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 11, 2019, 06:36:23 PM
Hi, loving the mod, and like the new update. Only 1 issue thats bugging me. The notifications on the left of the screen about civilian bonus's is really anoying, is there a way to turn that feature off?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Remus on October 11, 2019, 08:29:34 PM
First time posting here! Love this mod; can't play without it.

Something seems wrong with the new missile traits though. Specifically, "Fast Missile Loaders" and "Slow Missile Loaders". The tooltip indicates that these traits affect missile reload rate, which I originally assumed meant the speed at which extra ammo is regenerated for autoloader missiles like the Javelin LRM. However, they seem to leave this stat unchanged, and instead affect refire delay. Not only that, but the effect it has on refire delay is way too powerful, and is obviously not intended.

I used the console to do a little testing, and a ship at only Notable and with loyalty at Indifferent with the single trait "Fast Missile Loaders" can now effectively unload its entire magazine in one uninterrupted salvo, seemingly regardless of how long the listed default refire delay is for a particular weapon, and this seems to work for any missile-slot weapon. It's basically the nocooldown cheat but for missiles only. Similarly, for the negative trait with these same conditions, missiles now don't fire at all! I only discovered this because my missile cruiser obliterated half the enemy fleet in a matter of seconds in its first battle after gaining the trait. ;D Would like to know if it's just me or if anyone else is having this happen.  :)

EDIT: Didn't notice the update to 1.3.1, so just to be sure I want to also say that I'm still using 1.3.0 at the moment.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 09:18:07 PM
@exelsiar: Glad you like it! I'll add that setting soon!

@Remus: Thanks, and welcome to the forum! Someone else just told me about a similar issue and I just fixed it. I should be able to get a patch out tonight.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.1 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 11, 2019, 09:23:12 PM
@Sundog Thank you sir, look forward to when it's ready ^_^
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 09:28:55 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that would cause famous flagship bar events to sometimes fail
Fixed traits that modify missile rate of fire not being applied correctly, sometimes resulting in rediculous rapid-fire torpedoes
Added a setting to disable notifications about traits earned from peaceful xp: "showNewTraitNotifications"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 11, 2019, 10:24:18 PM
@Sundog damn that was a quick addition, thank yee kindly. The new setting has definitely helped (that or I'm miss judging it), but I still get some pop up for random ships. The xp gains for them seem to be from when they repair themselves, as their all freshly captured ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Embolism on October 11, 2019, 10:25:06 PM
Minor nitpick. In the bar events there's one for derelict ships that mentions 'years', AFAIK all references in vanilla are to 'cycles'.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2019, 11:18:13 PM
@Sundog damn that was a quick addition, thank yee kindly.
No problem. It was a good suggestion  :)

The new setting has definitely helped (that or I'm miss judging it), but I still get some pop up for random ships. The xp gains for them seem to be from when they repair themselves, as their all freshly captured ships.
Yeah, the setting wasn't being applied at all because I was rushing and messed it up. Sorry about that. Fixed in the dev version: https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/Starship_Legends_dev.zip

Minor nitpick. In the bar events there's one for derelict ships that mentions 'years', AFAIK all references in vanilla are to 'cycles'.
That's a good point. I think you're right. I'll fix that for the next version. Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Piranhabunny on October 11, 2019, 11:29:32 PM
Hiya :)

First off thanks for the mod. Love it :D

Question: if a kite has militarized subsystems, will it still be counted as a civilian ship for purposes of what kind of traits it will get?

PB
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: SarenSoran on October 12, 2019, 02:08:27 AM
i think i found a way to exploit this mod, sry, but if i send in a few well armed cargo freighters it doesn't count them as combat capable ships and i can theoretically send in thirty of them and still it would show them as one point in fleet strength, this makes me able to just spam them with no problem regarding your mod and gain mad experience
i have no clue on how to fix this but i just wanted to tell you about this

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Metadane on October 12, 2019, 02:41:59 AM
Thank you for the mod Mr. Sundog sir.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: exelsiar on October 12, 2019, 03:41:37 AM
Ahah, thanks for the quick hotfix :D All is working fine now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 12, 2019, 03:42:28 AM
I turned the peacefulxp reputation gain off and I'm now getting an error in the background (red text telling me to contact modder) for Starship Legends everytime I run into a hostile remnant fleet to start combat.
I'm having a hard time reproducing this one. Could you send me the last hundred or so lines of the log file (starsector-core/starsector.log) after this error happens?

Edit: Hmm... so it looks like an error will occur at that point if the options file could not be read. Are you certain you didn't make any formatting mistakes when editing the peaceful xp gain rate? If that's the case, you should be getting an error when your save loads as well.

I've updated to the latest version and I am still getting the red error text notifications on the left side of the screen ( https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362237146469236738/632530211279208449/unknown.png ) without crashing when running into remnant fleets to start combat.
I have no issues when loading into a save file.
This is the last few lines of the error log.
https://pastebin.com/c7bZDZrG
This is my current settings for the mod
https://pastebin.com/f39ZYkAv
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Buff Skeleton on October 12, 2019, 08:34:30 AM
lol, I thought something was amiss after I updated to 1.3.1...

(https://i.imgur.com/BxjL130.png)

Firing Hurricanes faster than the Gungnir, lmao

Thanks for the fix!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: prav on October 12, 2019, 09:43:02 AM
i think i liked it best with Annihilator pods.

(https://i.imgur.com/lRiHO11.png)

how's that for a beam weapon?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Shad on October 12, 2019, 10:24:51 AM
i think i liked it best with Annihilator pods.

(https://i.imgur.com/lRiHO11.png)

how's that for a beam weapon?

Now, is there a mod which has weapons like this? This looks... gorgeous.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 12, 2019, 12:51:17 PM
First off thanks for the mod. Love it :D

Question: if a kite has militarized subsystems, will it still be counted as a civilian ship for purposes of what kind of traits it will get?
Glad you like it! In spite of having civilian-grade hulls, kites are still considered combat ships by both starship legends and vanilla. I think venture is another example of this. So a kite will be considered a combat ship whether it has militarized subsystems or not. As a rule, the only hullmods that might affect which traits a ship gets are built-in ones.

i think i found a way to exploit this mod, sry, but if i send in a few well armed cargo freighters it doesn't count them as combat capable ships and i can theoretically send in thirty of them and still it would show them as one point in fleet strength, this makes me able to just spam them with no problem regarding your mod and gain mad experience
i have no clue on how to fix this but i just wanted to tell you about this
Hmm... I'll have to give some thought to figuring out the best way to address that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

Thank you for the mod Mr. Sundog sir.
You're welcome for the mod Mr. Metadane sir.

Ahah, thanks for the quick hotfix :D All is working fine now.
No problem. Glad to hear it!

This is the last few lines of the error log.
https://pastebin.com/c7bZDZrG
Ah, thank you! I think that tells me what I need to know. It looks like the error happens because starship legends is running out of traits to give remnants. Did you increase "traitsPerTier" by any chance? Either way, it should be fixed for the next release.

@Buff Skeleton and prav: In spite of my shame over releasing that bug, those screenshots are pretty great!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Starareo on October 12, 2019, 12:53:29 PM
I'm currently modifying some my ruthless sector settings for the new update, just had some questions. Under # Ship Reputation Tiers #, what does "effectMult" modify? Also, how does the whole famous flagship and derelict bar event chance section work? Thanks.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 12, 2019, 11:19:43 PM
This is the last few lines of the error log.
https://pastebin.com/c7bZDZrG
Ah, thank you! I think that tells me what I need to know. It looks like the error happens because starship legends is running out of traits to give remnants. Did you increase "traitsPerTier" by any chance? Either way, it should be fixed for the next release.

[/quote]

Yeah I'm running at 9 traits per tier with a few other changes in the config file here. https://pastebin.com/f39ZYkAv
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.2 - See original post for new features!
Post by: BringerofBabies on October 13, 2019, 06:41:20 AM
i think i found a way to exploit this mod, sry, but if i send in a few well armed cargo freighters it doesn't count them as combat capable ships and i can theoretically send in thirty of them and still it would show them as one point in fleet strength, this makes me able to just spam them with no problem regarding your mod and gain mad experience
i have no clue on how to fix this but i just wanted to tell you about this
Hmm... I'll have to give some thought to figuring out the best way to address that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

Determining what ships are combat capable vs purely civilian is certainly a tough issue that might even vary from player to player - I've only used HMI's Junk as a logistics ship, but some players may actually put effort into developing them into usable combat vessels.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 13, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.3 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that sometimes prevented fleet traits from being displayed or applied if "traitsPerTier" was set very high (above 8 or so)
Fixed new setting "showNewTraitNotifications" not being applied
Fixed non-lore friendly references to "years" in text instead of "cycles"
Fixed a few grammar mistakes in the bar event descriptions


Under # Ship Reputation Tiers #, what does "effectMult" modify?
It determines how strong effects are at that tier. The "durable" trait, for example, has a base effect of +2% hull integrity, so if the effectMult for the Famous tier is 7, then "durable" will grant +14% (2x7) hull integrity if it is a famous trait.

Also, how does the whole famous flagship and derelict bar event chance section work?
Basically, the higher it is the more likely it will be. If you set it to 0 then that event should never occur.

Yeah I'm running at 9 traits per tier with a few other changes in the config file here. https://pastebin.com/f39ZYkAv
Right! Sorry, I guess I forgot that you posted your settings while I was troubleshooting the issue. Anyway, this patch should fix it. Please let me know if it doesn't!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Starareo on October 13, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
Thanks for the clarification, love the mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 13, 2019, 07:10:37 PM
No problem. Glad you like it  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Deko on October 14, 2019, 02:55:48 AM
Yeah the error from earlier on is gone.

I was wonder if this is normal behavior under ENEMY FLEET TRAITS setting: " "traitsForFleetsWithMaxLevelCommander":4, " if I am running 9 traits per reputation tier.
Additionally I have also set officer max level cap to 29 if that has any impact on this


Seems abit excessive to me and I hope there can be an options to limit this maybe in the following formats
A. occurrence/rarity of fleets with matching number of fleets traits to the player
B. some sort of hard cap to fleet traits.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: tantananan on October 14, 2019, 03:15:25 AM
Hello! I absolutely love this mod!

Is there a way to change the trait multiplier for NPCs without changing the player multiplier? I want to be make NPCs more difficult with stronger traits while not changing my own.

Thank you!  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.3 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 14, 2019, 12:44:57 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.4 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed flagship bar events generating different reputations for the same ship at different markets
Fixed reloading clearing the reputation hullmod from famous AI flagships
Fixed fleet reputations changing on reload


@Deko: Yeah, reducing traitsForFleetsWithMaxLevelCommander sounds like a good way to do what you want. Starship legends does take officerMaxLevel into consideration as well, so your lvl 29 commanders should have 18 traits. "traitsForFleetsWithMaxLevelCommander" is misleading because it doesn't directly set the number of traits, but scales with the max possible number of traits, which is determined by "traitsPerTier" since there are always 4 tiers. This scaling behavior is pretty confusing (especially considering it contradicts the name of the setting in this case) so I'll probably remove it.

@tantananan: Glad you like it! There's no way to make traits grant different effects for NPCs than yourself, and I'm not sure I'd want to add a setting for that. It might not be quite sufficient for what you want, but you can increase the power of NPC fleets relative to your own by increasing "averageFractionOfGoodTraits" under "ENEMY FLEET TRAITS." The "baseRating" setting is meant to be the primary "difficulty slider" option for starship legends, as decreasing it will make it much harder to earn and maintain good traits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.4 - See original post for new features!
Post by: tantananan on October 14, 2019, 10:58:26 PM
Alright! Thank you so much for all your work! Love the new update! Cheers!

Edit: I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Sometimes the ship that had traits before the start of a battle doesnt have the traits when i salvage it. I'll get back when I experiment more.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 17, 2019, 04:54:16 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.5 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed a serious issue caused by famous derelict bar events spawning derelicts even if the quest was not accepted
   These derelicts were bugged, and would freeze the game when interacted with
   Loading a game with this version of starship legends or higher will remove them from the sector
Fixed famous flagship bar event sometimes choosing target fleets that are scheduled to despawn soon
Fixed remnant fleets sometimes being chosen for famous flagship events in systems with remnants and at least one market
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary (longstanding issue)
Changed: All famous derelict/flagship intel is now automatically marked important when accepted
Changed: Significantly reduced the chance for famous derelicts to be in good condition

Also, for those of you who maintain faction mods, I recently updated the instructions for integration with the new starship legends features.
Integration Instructions
  • First, download the example config file (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/factionConfigurations.json) and place it in "mods/YOUR_MOD/data/config/starship_legends/"
  • Edit the file to your liking. It's full of comments. You probably won't need most of it, so feel free to delete unneeded parts
  • Load a save file with this mod and your faction enabled
  • Check the log for a message like this: INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading config file for faction: your faction name
If you see that line in the log without any errors following it, then everything is probably working fine.

I'm happy to help with integration in any way I can, so feel free to ask for clarification/help/etc.
[close]


Alright! Thank you so much for all your work! Love the new update! Cheers!
Glad you like it! Cheers!

Edit: I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Sometimes the ship that had traits before the start of a battle doesnt have the traits when i salvage it. I'll get back when I experiment more.
I'd definitely call that a bug. Sorry for the trouble! I think this happens when you join a battle-in-progress that the famous flagship is involved in, but I haven't had time to properly look into it yet since it's pretty difficult to reproduce.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 17, 2019, 05:52:21 PM
really lovely mod, enjoyable

i would suggest adding settings with ratios for types of events based on "hullSize"

that allows to define different value for Frigates,Destroyers,Cruisers,Capital_Ship classes
(and other classes (e.g. fighter) or may get added later or introduced by some other mod)

some factions are more oriented on certain size ratio,
thus may want to increase ratio of e.g. smaller ship events over capital ships etc.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 17, 2019, 10:36:01 PM
After trying to add this to an ongoing game, it crashed after giving many errors ("null") after the first battle (with Remnants).
I then tried starting a new game and it crashed after I docked at a planet, opened the refit screen (no legend hullmods on the starter ships) and exited.

Mods: CombatChatter, Rebalanced Pilums, GraphicsLib, LazyLib, and VersionChecker only (these have no problems without Legends)
The Legend settings have not been changed from the defaults.

Below is the log after the "new game" crash. I docked at a hegemony planet since the fleet started next to it.
Spoiler
Quote
189136 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [faction_hegemony_market_03_friendly_var01.ogg]
189136 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [faction_hegemony_market_03_friendly_var01.ogg]
189632 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at starship_legends.RepRecord.existsFor(RepRecord.java:20)
   at starship_legends.RepRecord.existsFor(RepRecord.java:22)
   at starship_legends.RepRecord.updateRepHullMod(RepRecord.java:39)
   at starship_legends.CampaignScript.reportPlayerClosedMarket(CampaignScript.java:447)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.reportPlayerClosedMarket(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.dialogDismissed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.dismiss(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.dismiss(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper.advanceImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.advanceImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 17, 2019, 10:53:57 PM
Bar encounter with "storyteller" causes station UI to crash when I try to activate the dialogue in ver. 1.3.5.  The event also seems to be unusually common in the system I first start a Nexerelin campaign in.

Mods enabled:


Doesn't seem to occur in the previous version, but I haven't found the encounter on the 1.3.4 ver. either.

Looks like it's fixed in the 1.3.6 version.  Cheers!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 17, 2019, 11:18:16 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.6 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed everything broken by 1.3.5 (which was basically everything) - Apologies to those of you who downloaded it

Change log for 1.3.5:

Fixed a serious issue caused by famous derelict bar events spawning derelicts even if the quest was not accepted
   These derelicts were bugged, and would freeze the game when interacted with
   Loading a game with this version of starship legends or higher will remove them from the sector
Fixed famous flagship bar event sometimes choosing target fleets that are scheduled to despawn soon
Fixed remnant fleets sometimes being chosen for famous flagship events in systems with remnants and at least one market
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary (longstanding issue)
Changed: All famous derelict/flagship intel is now automatically marked important when accepted
Changed: Significantly reduced the chance for famous derelicts to be in good condition


Also, for those of you who maintain faction mods, I recently updated the instructions for integration with the new starship legends features.
Integration Instructions
  • First, download the example config file (https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/downloads/factionConfigurations.json) and place it in "mods/YOUR_MOD/data/config/starship_legends/"
  • Edit the file to your liking. It's full of comments. You probably won't need most of it, so feel free to delete unneeded parts
  • Load a save file with this mod and your faction enabled
  • Check the log for a message like this: INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading config file for faction: your faction name
If you see that line in the log without any errors following it, then everything is probably working fine.

I'm happy to help with integration in any way I can, so feel free to ask for clarification/help/etc.
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 17, 2019, 11:39:57 PM
Thanks for the fix!!   :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 17, 2019, 11:47:34 PM
@Alavaria and Daidez: Thank you both for the reports. 1.3.5 had all kinds of issues that all stemmed from the same cause. I took down the links to it, but I should have also posted here to let people know. I'm sorry for all the trouble, but I really do appreciate you guys giving me a heads-up.

Thanks for the fix!!   :D
You're welcome! But I really am sorry it was necessary at all... Even if it was only up for four hours, a patch should never break anything, let alone the entire mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 18, 2019, 02:34:02 AM
Yes, seems to work with no problems now, perfect.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: majorfreak on October 18, 2019, 11:28:27 AM
hey, just like to say keep it up, my man! this mod truly does add "extra flavor"...especially since i fiddled with the settings.json and have 90+ ships in fleet and 80 officers
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Salv on October 18, 2019, 12:46:55 PM
Got an error when choosing the 'ask where x may be found' dialog option for a derelict. The other event type works fine though. Here's the log:

5238865 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.optionSelected(FamousShipBarEvent.java:568)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.bar.BarEventDialogPlugin.optionSelecte d(BarEventDialogPlugin.java:53)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.O0Oo.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

 The game was started with the 1.3.5 version, then I updated it to the newest one. Hope this doesn't mean the bar event is busted on that save :'(.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.5 - See original post for new features!
Post by: Sundog on October 18, 2019, 02:33:21 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.7 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Fixed an error that prevented some derelict bar events from being accepted


The game was started with the 1.3.5 version, then I updated it to the newest one. Hope this doesn't mean the bar event is busted on that save :'(.
Thanks for reporting this. It was another bug introduced in 1.3.5. I didn't catch it with 1.3.6, but that bar event should work now with 1.3.7

hey, just like to say keep it up, my man! this mod truly does add "extra flavor"...especially since i fiddled with the settings.json and have 90+ ships in fleet and 80 officers
Thanks! Glad you like it  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Reens on October 18, 2019, 04:39:11 PM
Awesome mod!

Some of the traits should require the system they're modifying to actually exist though. It doesn't really make sense that a ship that has no missile hardpoints can have "Fast Missile Loaders" or a phase ship with "Powerful Shields".
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 18, 2019, 05:01:37 PM
Awesome mod!
Glad you like it!

Some of the traits should require the system they're modifying to actually exist though. It doesn't really make sense that a ship that has no missile hardpoints can have "Fast Missile Loaders" or a phase ship with "Powerful Shields".
Are you seeing that happen? If so it's a bug.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Starareo on October 18, 2019, 05:07:23 PM
Is there a reason why my civilian ships always get more negative traits than usual? I obviously don't send them into combat, but I am running Ruthless Sector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Reens on October 18, 2019, 05:19:28 PM
Are you seeing that happen? If so it's a bug.

I only noticed it on some modded ships, so maybe its just a compatibility issue. The Vril frigate (from Sylphon) gained the missile loaders buffs - it has 2 small energy, 1 medium energy and 2 built in energy PD turrets. The Royco mod frigate (IBB from SWP) gained shields even though its a phase ship.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 18, 2019, 10:50:35 PM
Is there a reason why my civilian ships always get more negative traits than usual? I obviously don't send them into combat, but I am running Ruthless Sector.
I just checked the code, and it looks like the "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" setting should be working as intended. It's set to 0.5 (or 50%) both with and without ruthless sector. I didn't notice any significant deviation from this while playtesting either. It's based entirely on RNG, so there's a chance you've just been unlucky. What kind of good/bad ratio are you getting for civilian ships?

I only noticed it on some modded ships, so maybe its just a compatibility issue. The Vril frigate (from Sylphon) gained the missile loaders buffs - it has 2 small energy, 1 medium energy and 2 built in energy PD turrets. The Royco mod frigate (IBB from SWP) gained shields even though its a phase ship.
Yeah, those ships definitely shouldn't be getting those traits. I thought this might be a compatibility issue for the Royco since it's so unconventional, but its shield type is set to PHASE, which is what starship legends checks for, so everything should be working as intended. Were those ships famous flagships or derelicts by any chance? The mod is supposed to check for this kind of thing while generating traits for those as well, but something might be preventing that from working correctly.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 19, 2019, 12:19:47 AM
i do wonder, any reason after winning battles my crew hates it's captain/officer more ?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Takion Kasukedo on October 19, 2019, 07:21:00 AM
This question has likely been asked before, but how do you add more reputation tiers to Starship Legends?

eg; I tried this and it doesn't look like it works in campaign and i'm wondering if it works on your side? Running this with Ruthless Sector.

Spoiler
    "notable":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":80000,
      "effectMult":3,
   },
   "wellknown":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":160000,
      "effectMult":4,
   },
   "illustrous":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":960000,
      "effectMult":5,
   },
   "famous":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":4600000,
      "effectMult":6,
   },
   "distinguished":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":12000000,
      "effectMult":7,
   },
   "revered":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":72000000,
      "effectMult":8,
   },
   "legendary":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":460000000,
      "effectMult":9,
   },
   "peerless":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":940000000,
      "effectMult":10,
   },
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 19, 2019, 01:03:05 PM
i do wonder, any reason after winning battles my crew hates it's captain/officer more ?
My guess is that the officer's ship took a lot of hull damage in the battle. Loyalty changes are based on a "battle rating," which is basically a score for how well the ship performed in the battle. Taking hull damage reduces that score a lot.

how do you add more reputation tiers to Starship Legends?
Unfortunately, there's no easy way to do it. It's possible, but you'd have to change starship legend's code (which is completely fine by me)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 19, 2019, 03:03:04 PM
i do wonder, any reason after winning battles my crew hates it's captain/officer more ?
My guess is that the officer's ship took a lot of hull damage in the battle. Loyalty changes are based on a "battle rating," which is basically a score for how well the ship performed in the battle. Taking hull damage reduces that score a lot.

does this fix by winning battles afterward ? i won many since but the captain rating isn't improving (the ship in question received 0 dmg in those while scoring some assist / kills )
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 19, 2019, 03:33:44 PM
Yes, it's definitely possible to improve the loyalty of that ship's crew to that officer. The chance to improve loyalty is better if the ship does well in battle. Another option is to move that officer to a new ship with a crew that is indifferent to them. You can also increase "improveLoyaltyChanceMult" in the options file to make it easier to increase loyalty.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: OldManHenderson on October 20, 2019, 07:24:27 AM
Is there a reason I've yet to find any storytellers?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 20, 2019, 05:04:34 PM
Storytellers are supposed to be very common, so you should be finding them in bars at about half of the markets you visit. Maybe more. I'm still seeing them all over the place. What kind of markets have you been visiting? How many? It's possible for faction mods to disable the event at their markets, but I'm not aware of any factions that have done that. By default, storytellers will show up at the markets of any faction that is visible in the intel screen. Come to think of it, the player faction isn't included in that. I'll have to fix that. Have you mostly been visiting bars at markets owned by your own faction? It's also possible to disable storytellers in the options file. I can't think of any other likely reasons for you not to be getting them, but then, if you've visited many markets without seeing even one then it's unlikely to be a coincidence.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dwarden on October 20, 2019, 05:23:19 PM
some ideas for @sundog

it would be nice when

'prisoners' or 'freed captives' after battles could tell some stories
or
after 'rescuing' someone via distress call they would drop some rumor or tip as part of thanks

etc.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Starareo on October 20, 2019, 07:52:04 PM
@Sundog

With regards to the civilian ship issue, I'm pretty sure I just had bad rng, I did get a streak of good traits right after lmao. What value would I change to make it so civilian ships only get positive traits?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 20, 2019, 08:34:27 PM
@Dwarden: Things like that could be pretty cool. Distress calls in particular could definitely stand to be more worthwhile. I'm not sure how practical it is to implement, but I'll add that to my list of feature ideas so I can look into it at some point.

@Starareo: Glad to hear it wasn't a bug, but sorry about the bad luck! Setting "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" to 1.0 should ensure that civilian ships will only get good traits. If you want to remove existing bad traits from your ships you could use console commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0). Enter "help starship_legends" to see the list of commands related to reputation editing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Starareo on October 20, 2019, 08:38:13 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 20, 2019, 08:42:08 PM
No problem  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 22, 2019, 06:18:56 AM
When a ship reaches 100% rating and then "overflows" is that amount affected by the ship itself? Eg: a 5-point frigate destroys a 40 point capital ship, which would be 800%, is that what is used, or is the point value of the killing ship not used?

I have a bunch of "ECM support" Buffalo IIs (4 points each) which I assume scratch some paint with their fighters and thus have damage inflicted around 200%,
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 22, 2019, 11:07:09 AM
Powerful ships do need to deal more hull damage in order to increase their rating via damage, so yes, in that sense rating overflow is affected by the ship's strength. However, once battle rating is calculated it doesn't matter. If a Paragon and a Hound both have a rating of 110% at the end of a battle, they will both share the same amount of rating with the other ships.

It sounds like those Buffalo IIs are working out well for you. Do you think the ECM support bonus is too strong?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 23, 2019, 03:14:34 AM
It sounds like those Buffalo IIs are working out well for you.
Well, when your hull is listed as being at a very low value, I guess it's very easy to scratch some hull and gain a ton of points. They do as much damage with a Pilum+Thunder fighter as a Monitor which has an officer and Ion Cannon + Dual Light Machinegun. But the latter consistently don't get to do hull damage, unlike the fighters who get on everything small that dies.

So it's either bombers/LRMs or just knifefighting with fighters/frigates using Machineguns. Though the ones knife-fighting remnant battleships (or superships thanks to the Seeker mod) are the least well-known, compared to the Buffalos who scratch hull from very far away with relatively little risk (Thunder range of 8000).

Spoiler
(http://lpix.org/3565574/Fleet_1.jpg)
(http://lpix.org/3565575/Fleet_2.jpg)
[close]
Do you think the ECM support bonus is too strong?
Actually the ECM isn't important, as the most important is just to avoid taking the penalty. But it might make enemies come in closer, though most of the useful damage is done by bombers anyway. Well, the first 4 are handy just on their hull-based 2% to speed, as the fleet deploys with 17% to start with and would like 8 points to reach 25% (while you can use up to another 15 or so to counter the enemy fleet ECM, which is easily done by having those Buffalos carry ECM hullmods).


The combat statistics mod suggests I take about as much damage as I deal out, presumably this is largely cut down by Fortress Shields and vented passively (especially since a lot of the Remnants' damage would be soft flux).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 23, 2019, 10:53:43 AM
Though the ones knife-fighting remnant battleships (or superships thanks to the Seeker mod) are the least well-known, compared to the Buffalos who scratch hull from very far away with relatively little risk (Thunder range of 8000).
Yeah, that makes sense. Your monitors still seem to have very good ratings, but I assume that's mostly from the rating overflow of other ships. That's an interesting fleet composition. I like it.

Actually the ECM isn't important, as the most important is just to avoid taking the penalty. But it might make enemies come in closer, though most of the useful damage is done by bombers anyway. Well, the first 4 are handy just on their hull-based 2% to speed, as the fleet deploys with 17% to start with and would like 8 points to reach 25% (while you can use up to another 15 or so to counter the enemy fleet ECM, which is easily done by having those Buffalos carry ECM hullmods).
Ok, cool. Sounds like the support bonuses are working out roughly as I hoped
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 23, 2019, 02:57:52 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.8 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
All Starship Legends updates are save-compatible unless explicitly stated otherwise

Fixed storytellers never appearing at markets owned by the player's faction
Fixed fleets from enhanced bounty missions (Vayra's Sector) not showing up as famous flagship targets
Fixed timed derelict recovery mission map icons not having a gauge for the remaining time
Fixed factions with integration data in faction files overriding data for the same faction in factionConfigs files
Fixed ships with no/few missile slots getting missile related traits while ships with many missile slots couldn't
Fixed ships with no weapon slots being able to get weapon related traits
Added a check to remove irrelevant traits (as above) whenever a game is loaded with a new version of the mod
Added a short description of the target fleet's last known activity to famous flagship intel
Changed missile related trait effect descriptions to make them more clear:
   missile reload rate  ->  missile rate of fire
   missile agility  ->  missile maneuvering
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: majorfreak on October 23, 2019, 05:31:10 PM
Is there a reason I've yet to find any storytellers?
i'm having that problem currently as well...i kind of cheated and used transverse before tutorial completion (yes, i admit i'm that guy)
when you do that no bar events happen...maybe i glitched it? anyways, i'm just in the early stages - after completing tutorial after a year of exploiting samarra - so will edit if i start seeing them again (hopefully after i install this new patch)


yup. fixed
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: exelsiar on October 24, 2019, 09:43:13 AM
Hi just installed the update, and imediatly noticed the story tellers are showing up on my worlds now. Great! Except I have both types of story teller completely disabled via the setting files.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 24, 2019, 12:44:17 PM
Pretty sure I'm having some issue with saving multiple times in a session because of your mod working with a bunch of others. I believe it's a cache issue, where the cache isn't being emptied. Since after I exit the game it works fine for about 5-6 saves.

I looked at the log and it pointed to your mod being the issue. Hence why I'm pretty sure it's your mod. I don't have PC access for a few days (out of town), but I'll post the log here later if you want.

Anyways, I like the mod a lot! It's a fantastic idea, and adds to the game and other mods significantly.

Keep up the work, and I'm sure everyone who uses your mod appreciates the time and effort you put in. Thank you :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 24, 2019, 04:16:06 PM
@I_is_nublet: Hey, welcome to the forum and thanks for the info! Glad you like the mod  :)
Are you referring to the memory issue you mentioned in the Nexerelin thread? I'm pretty sure this is the first I've heard about this, and I don't have a lot to go on, so whatever it is that's pointing to starship legends in your log would be really useful. I couldn't find anything wrong after simply saving repeatedly while looking through the log and monitoring memory usage, but I'll keep an eye out during my next long play session.


yup. fixed
Glad to hear it! Yeah, I suspect that no bar events would occur at all before the tutorial ends.


Hi just installed the update, and imediatly noticed the story tellers are showing up on my worlds now. Great! Except I have both types of story teller completely disabled via the setting files.
So you have these lines in your settings file?
Quote
   "famousFlagshipBarEventChance":0.0,
   "famousDerelictBarEventChance":0.0,
Are you using ruthless sector? If so, starship legends will use RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini instead of STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini.
Stroytellers that were there previously would also still be there after changing those settings (at least until the event expires).
Another possibility is that an error is occurring while starship legends tries to read your options file. An error message should show up in-game if that's the case, but if not then the error should still show up in the log.
After re-checking the code it looks like those settings should be working as intended, but I added an extra check just in case.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Buff Skeleton on October 24, 2019, 05:20:28 PM
I am starting to think something is up with remembering loyalty for some ships. I was switching between an Onslaught and a Doom as my main flagship somewhat frequently while collecting bounties, and in one of the most recent battle reports, it shows the crew of the Onslaught had grown Confident in me. But later on, after going home and refitting a bit of stuff, I put myself back in command and now it only shows Indifferent.

I'm using Ruthless Sector as well, and I keep a close eye on my battle reports. I didn't see it drop down from Confident to Indifferent in any of the recent ones, so I'm not sure how that happened.

I also lost the Doom at one point, but recovered it, and when I did, I had gone from Fiercely Loyal to Indifferent. I've recovered ships and seen loyalty go down one level before (both for me and officers), but not all the way to zero.

I thought maybe it was because the entire crew of the ship had died (which wouldn't be unreasonable, heh) and thus I had a whole new set of people to impress, but given other lost ships have come back with only slight (or sometimes no) penalties to loyalty from their crews after recovery, I'm wondering if there's a bug here. None of the other ship characteristics changed either.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 24, 2019, 05:30:27 PM
Yep, same issue (in reply to sundog). As I said tho I have a fair number of mods. So it could be a combo specifically. In which case I'd be SOL.

I will try to narrow it down once I get the chance (if that is what it is).

I am using Windows 10 (which could be the reason in itself). I'll do a paste bin of my dxdiag later. Specs aren't bad, higher end.

But the error message that popped up was something about gc overhead limit reached(I think, eventually save time would get longer and longer till it no longer saved and that message would pop up). The log was showing starship legends something or the other.

Anyways, thank you for your time and the greeting :)
(Using phone, formatting is a pain)

Edit:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=10908.0
This is the problem pretty much. However the only mods I have that are common with that (keeping in mind the post is 3 years old) are nexerelin, portrait mod and the lib mods (when this started happening).

In that link tho, it seems to be a game memory leak, not a mod. And based on which java version the game was running off of.

 What a pain in the butt. Ugh. I'll test it more and get back to you.

Edit 2:
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8726.0
And just found that. I'll look into that too. Good stuff on the forums here! :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 24, 2019, 10:30:01 PM
I'm also seeing some stutter on saving. I think this only started after updating to the latest version of Legends though.

It's unfortunate that "civilian" ships do not get ratings, since I just got a nice Valkyrie troop transport blueprint and was using them in combat.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: exelsiar on October 25, 2019, 05:23:40 AM
Hi just installed the update, and imediatly noticed the story tellers are showing up on my worlds now. Great! Except I have both types of story teller completely disabled via the setting files.
So you have these lines in your settings file?
Quote
   "famousFlagshipBarEventChance":0.0,
   "famousDerelictBarEventChance":0.0,
Are you using ruthless sector? If so, starship legends will use RUTHLESS_STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini instead of STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini.
Stroytellers that were there previously would also still be there after changing those settings (at least until the event expires).
Another possibility is that an error is occurring while starship legends tries to read your options file. An error message should show up in-game if that's the case, but if not then the error should still show up in the log.
After re-checking the code it looks like those settings should be working as intended, but I added an extra check just in case.

I was not aware of those lines, I was using:
"allowFamousFlagshipBarEvent":false,
"allowFamousDerelictBarEvent":false,
from the sun_sl folder

Have changed the ones you mentioned, still getting them.
Though I would have expected the lines I mentioned to have worked.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 25, 2019, 05:40:19 AM
I was not aware of those lines, I was using:
"allowFamousFlagshipBarEvent":false,
"allowFamousDerelictBarEvent":false,
from the sun_sl folder

Have changed the ones you mentioned, still getting them.
Though I would have expected the lines I mentioned to have worked.

Did you try visiting a system you haven't visted in months to see if the event still proc'ced?

If it still procs, then yea. Something is wrong.

 If it doesnt then the event at your current lication just needs to expire (which would be about an in-game month. Provided you leave the planet alone and don't visit it during that month).

Edit: ah. Just thought of it. You probably have to visit each planet in order for the event to proc the expiration cycle. So visit a few planetd, wait a month. Then see if the event still procs fir those planets
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: exelsiar on October 25, 2019, 06:44:46 AM
Heh I went a step further and started a new game to test it, everythings working perfectly now. Thanks :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 25, 2019, 09:21:17 AM
I'm also seeing some stutter on saving. I think this only started after updating to the latest version of Legends though.

It's unfortunate that "civilian" ships do not get ratings, since I just got a nice Valkyrie troop transport blueprint and was using them in combat.

Civ ships do get ratings. It's just slower on them to get it is all.

As for the save stutter, did you modify the game files to use more RAM if you can?

https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8726.0

And do you use other mods?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 25, 2019, 10:25:04 AM
Civ ships do get ratings. It's just slower on them to get it is all.
They get traits, are ratings hidden though? It also shows up as just a "-" in the battle results screen, so I can't tell if they're effectively at 50% for getting traits or not.
Spoiler
(http://lpix.org/3567424/ValkRating.jpg)
[close]

As for the save stutter, did you modify the game files to use more RAM if you can?

And do you use other mods?
Yes, though only 2Gb since the computer has 4. A few other mods, but I think only FDS has a faction in it, the rest are a couple of ship mods, no nex or anything else.
But since I haven't crashed/locked up, it's hard to say if that's the same as the others had.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.7 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 25, 2019, 09:58:39 PM
On memory usage: I got the chance to look for cases of wasteful memory usage yesterday, and I did confirm that the memory leak I thought I fixed in 1.3.5 is still there. However, that one shouldn't be causing the issues you guys are describing because it's a one-time thing, not something that progressively gets worse the longer you play (also: it's been there since the beginning, so it wouldn't be causing new issues). It might be a few days before I get a good opportunity, but I'm going to do a thorough check for these types of issues. Sharship legends should have a very low memory footprint, so I want to make sure that's actually the case.

I was not aware of those lines, I was using:
"allowFamousFlagshipBarEvent":false,
"allowFamousDerelictBarEvent":false,
from the sun_sl folder
Those lines are for setting whether or not an event is available in markets owned by specific factions. It sounds like you edited defaultFactionReputation.json, which defines the defaults for faction configurations, and generally isn't intended to be edited. All vanilla factions (including the player faction) overwrite those defaults, so it makes sense that your edits would've been ignored in most cases.

Heh I went a step further and started a new game to test it, everythings working perfectly now.
Glad to hear it! Sorry for the trouble.

It's unfortunate that "civilian" ships do not get ratings, since I just got a nice Valkyrie troop transport blueprint and was using them in combat.
Yeah, it might make things more interesting sometimes for them to get ratings, but it would also inevitably lead to a lot of players arranging weird battles intended for the sole purpose of improving the combat rating of civilian ships. It could probably be done, but it would require quite a lot of work to make it work well, and I don't think it would be worth it.

Civ ships do get ratings. It's just slower on them to get it is all.
As Alavaria said, they do get traits, but they don't get ratings (excepting the possibility of some setting I'm forgetting about that would allow it)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ddubistro on October 26, 2019, 04:08:28 AM
Hi,

First wanna say that I love the idea behind this mod and thanks for making it :D

I wanted to ask if it is possible to add an option where: "if no hull damage where taken" and "new rating is lower than previous rating" then previous rating is unchanged?

The problem I have is that when I face weak opponent such as automated defence on Domain Pode or chasing a fleet that try to flee (and even if I try to get the minimum ship possible, for chasing a small fleet it's just not possible if you wanna be sure to take down most of them), very often my high reputation ships are gonna lose reputation and may get a bad skill just because of that. It's really frustrating since the ship did noting bad to deserve it. It's even more true when helping an ally fleet that launch a pursuit or using a ship to keep away little ship/frigate on flanks to prevent them attacking your capital back. It's also punish you using back up near the end of a fight because of that too.

It would be amazing ^^

Anyway thanks again for this great mod :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: JustALittleGravitas on October 26, 2019, 01:37:26 PM
What the person above me said.

Also I'm seeing a really high rate of civilian ships ending up with traits that compromise the fleet (fuel guzzling, increased sensor profile, etc).  Suggest either making things that effect fleet performance rarer, or changing the odds of good bad traits to something other than 50-50 (going to try 75% good and see how that works since I can do it in settings).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SCC on October 26, 2019, 02:06:43 PM
Congrats on overcoming the many troubles you encountered so far. The mechanics and the design of this mod are captivating. Even if I had more fun occasionally helping you with it, than playing with it. Nice work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 26, 2019, 08:58:18 PM
First wanna say that I love the idea behind this mod and thanks for making it :D
You're welcome! It's been a fun project so far  :)

I wanted to ask if it is possible to add an option where: "if no hull damage where taken" and "new rating is lower than previous rating" then previous rating is unchanged?
It's certainly possible. I would like to do something like that to address the types of situations you mentioned. That kind of thing isn't something that bothers me personally, but discouraging the use of more force than necessary isn't one of the goals of this mod. Preventing rating reductions for ships that don't lose any hull during the battle isn't a bad idea. It's too binary for my liking and it would add more complexity to the rating system (which is already too complex), but it would solve the problem. I'll have to mull it over. Something I've been considering for months now is disabling the rating system and all negative traits so that players would only get bonuses, but so would NPC fleets.

Suggest either making things that effect fleet performance rarer, or changing the odds of good bad traits to something other than 50-50
I try to keep this mod from affecting vanilla difficulty too much (at least with default settings), hence the 50-50 chance of good/bad traits for civilian ships. Even then, it still makes the game slightly easier because you can choose to keep the ships with the best reputations.

Congrats on overcoming the many troubles you encountered so far. The mechanics and the design of this mod are captivating. Even if I had more fun occasionally helping you with it, than playing with it. Nice work.
Well, thanks! It's definitely been interesting so far. If I had to start over I certainly wouldn't base traits on any measure of combat performance. I knew I was opening a can of worms, but damn...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on October 27, 2019, 09:36:08 AM
Because a group of ships like the Valkyrie can use fighters to kill frigates (ie: score hull damage) and they don't have a "conventional" rating, it seems rather easy for them to get good traits due to the rule about not getting bad traits if your rating rose. (and they show up in the report with a rating like "- (+5%)"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RustyCabbage on October 27, 2019, 01:06:12 PM
Hi Sundog, first off thank you for the excellent mod!

At the moment I feel like the "Listen to the Storyteller" events are a little too common. I'm not sure if they count towards the total for minGenericMissions and maxGenericMissions found in settings.json, but despite having raised those values from their defaults slightly I rarely see e.g. delivery missions anymore, while basically every planet has the rumors bar event. Is this unusual?

Additionally, I encountered a minor bug wherein I took the location of a rumored ship and had my credits deducted into a negative balance. I don't think that the event told me it would cost me in this case, and in any case credits in vanilla are always non-negative, so this seems non-standard. I tried to reproduce it but didn't have any luck there.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 27, 2019, 03:15:35 PM
Nublet here again

I can't seem to find the error specific to your mod anymore (or was high off of oxygen and thought it was your mod).

Mostly seems to be pointing to Varya's mod having some issues, a couple in Tahlans, and one ship not being created in the ship data csv file (Dara_paragus No idea which mod that'd be from, but I'll figure it out and post to them later).

But either way, glad that you caught the mem drain in your mod (which I knew something was draining ram after I installed a few mods, but yours was by far the most information/saving intensive mod of the ones I installed at that point, so the GC was prob having issues with a few loops or something) again.

Keep up the solid work :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 27, 2019, 05:01:27 PM
Because a group of ships like the Valkyrie can use fighters to kill frigates (ie: score hull damage) and they don't have a "conventional" rating, it seems rather easy for them to get good traits due to the rule about not getting bad traits if your rating rose. (and they show up in the report with a rating like "- (+5%)"
True! That's two bugs right there. I never send civilian ships into battle, so I never noticed. Not sure exactly how I'll address this, but I'll put it on my list. Thanks for pointing it out!

Hi Sundog, first off thank you for the excellent mod!
;D

At the moment I feel like the "Listen to the Storyteller" events are a little too common. I'm not sure if they count towards the total for minGenericMissions and maxGenericMissions found in settings.json, but despite having raised those values from their defaults slightly I rarely see e.g. delivery missions anymore, while basically every planet has the rumors bar event. Is this unusual?
A high occurrence of storytellers isn't unusual or unintended, but it is a problem if they're noticeably reducing the frequency of other bar events. I'll have to look into exactly how bar events are spawned to check on this. The reason for how common storyteller events are is that I expect most of them (especially flagship intel) to be dismissed, since they're only useful if they offer a ship and traits that the player is interested in. For now, if you like, you can reduce the occurrence of these events by reducing famousFlagshipBarEventChance and famousDerelictBarEventChance in the options file.

Additionally, I encountered a minor bug wherein I took the location of a rumored ship and had my credits deducted into a negative balance. I don't think that the event told me it would cost me in this case, and in any case credits in vanilla are always non-negative, so this seems non-standard. I tried to reproduce it but didn't have any luck there.
Hmm... sorry about that! It's not supposed to let you accept the mission if you don't have enough money. After looking through the code I think I see a way this might happen sometimes, so if I'm right I should be able to reproduce it myself.

I can't seem to find the error specific to your mod anymore (or was high off of oxygen and thought it was your mod).

Mostly seems to be pointing to Varya's mod having some issues, a couple in Tahlans, and one ship not being created in the ship data csv file (Dara_paragus No idea which mod that'd be from, but I'll figure it out and post to them later).

Well, thanks for looking! If you still have the relevant log you might try searching starship_legends, which should appear in all this mod's log entries. Dara is the prefix for Disassemble Reassemble.

Keep up the solid work :)
If you insist  :P
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DatonKallandor on October 27, 2019, 06:02:19 PM
Something I've been considering for months now is disabling the rating system and all negative traits so that players would only get bonuses, but so would NPC fleets.

I hope that doesn't happen. The negatives as well as the positives are what makes the mod interesting. Otherwise it's just a buff mod and that's boring.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 27, 2019, 09:12:17 PM
The negatives as well as the positives are what makes the mod interesting. Otherwise it's just a buff mod and that's boring.
Yeah, I agree. That's why I haven't done it yet. I'm pretty happy with the rating system anyway, but it will never be perfect.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 28, 2019, 03:15:18 AM
5989770 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.regen(FamousShipBarEvent.java:329)
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.addPromptAndOption(FamousShipBarEvent.java:407)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.showOptions(BarCMD.java:113)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.execute(BarCMD.java:85)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)


Got one. Pretty much just went to a bar, error. Didn't crash, just error.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.8 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 28, 2019, 09:23:16 AM
Thanks for the report! Looks like a storyteller event tried to choose a market (to spawn a fleet from) that wasn't properly attached to a star system (in spite of being inside one). Should be fixed in the dev build. I'll be releasing it soon, after a little more testing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 28, 2019, 01:24:20 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.9 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Changed: By default, combat rating reductions will now be multiplied by the percentage of lost hull integrity
   This means no reductions will occur for ships that take no damage
   To balance this change, baseRating has been reduced from 75% to 65% (default) and 40% to 30% (with ruthless sector)
   Added "multiplyRatingLossesByPercentageOfLostHull" setting to allow this change to be disabled
Fixed famous derelicts always having names based on the independent faction
Fixed civilian ships getting rating adjustments when deployed in combat
Fixed a rare bug that sometimes caused money do be deducted when accepting storyteller events that shouldn't cost money to accept
Fixed AI flavor text being used for mothballed ships that would otherwise require crew
Fixed a rare error that would close the dialog screen when "visiting a dockside bar"
Fixed sometimes using up far more memory (RAM) than necessary (fixed previously in 1.3.5, but that fix was reverted due to complications)
Changed: Reduced default frequency of storytellers in bars by 50%
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: majorfreak on October 28, 2019, 02:06:56 PM
cheers for 50% storyteller reduction. was feeling a bit spammy
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 28, 2019, 03:53:26 PM
Awesome! I like that log! Glad to help ^^
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: FAX on October 28, 2019, 06:15:56 PM
Thanks for your job! There is really great pleasure to play such an excelent mod. :)

But I had also found a question. Some guys just told me that they feel awful when they had to spend many time and energy for a series of buff ( they could not bearing a useless one or even debuff, It's hard to understand for me but everyone have a mind of his own ).

As for me, the hullmod of Star Legend are just like a medal, the memory of my battle. It looks well but, lack of sense of participation, i mean it is uncontrolled completely.

Maybe, this is just my opinion, the  traits we can earn after battle can offer 2-3 choose(it may looks like level-up of officers) will be better, a Limited List is better than random in my thought.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 28, 2019, 09:41:53 PM
I'm not getting any "storyteller" encounters at all after 1.3.9.  Tried to find one on a new save, but either I was unlucky or it really isn't working.

I tried rolling back to 1.3.8, and that works just as advertised.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 28, 2019, 11:04:12 PM
cheers for 50% storyteller reduction. was feeling a bit spammy
Agreed. We'll see if 50% was enough.

Awesome! I like that log! Glad to help ^^
;D

Thanks for your job! There is really great pleasure to play such an excelent mod. :)
Glad you like it!  :)

Some guys just told me that they feel awful when they had to spend many time and energy for a series of buff ( they could not bearing a useless one or even debuff, It's hard to understand for me but everyone have a mind of his own ).
You might want to suggest to them setting "ignoreAllMaluses" to true in the options file. It sounds like they might prefer it that way.

As for me, the hullmod of Star Legend are just like a medal, the memory of my battle. It looks well but, lack of sense of participation, i mean it is uncontrolled completely.

Maybe, this is just my opinion, the  traits we can earn after battle can offer 2-3 choose(it may looks like level-up of officers) will be better, a Limited List is better than random in my thought.
The randomness of traits in this mod is very deliberate/intentional. Having more control over bonuses definitely has some advantages, but I don't think it's a good fit for this particular mod. On the bright side, the next version of Starsector will allow us to add permanent hullmods without costing any OP, which will have a similar effect.

I'm not getting any "storyteller" encounters at all after 1.3.9.  Tried to find one on a new save, but either I was unlucky or it really isn't working.

I tried rolling back to 1.3.8, and that works just as advertised.
I'm still seeing plenty of new storytellers with 1.3.9 (in both old and new saves). Not sure what could be causing them not to show up. Have you edited the options file at all?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 28, 2019, 11:51:08 PM
I did get that error again in the new version just fyi. But I am also still seeing 19270872 story tellers. I might have installed it wrong (which is possible and easy fix). Or it could just not be affecting my campaign at the moment (I played for about 2 in-game years after updating) and I need to start a new campaign.

But I definitely think the memory leak is much lessened or gone now tho. I am still seeing a few but that's probably from Tahlan's or Nex or one of the other bigger mods I'm running.

^^
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 12:25:47 AM
I'm still seeing plenty of new storytellers with 1.3.9 (in both old and new saves). Not sure what could be causing them not to show up. Have you edited the options file at all?

I haven't touched the options at all.  I will try 1.3.9 version again just to see if I possibly made a mistake while updating.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2019, 01:18:40 AM
I did get that error again in the new version just fyi.
I guess I was wrong about the cause and didn't actually fix it. I never did manage to reproduce it. To make sure it's the same thing, could you PM me the error message from the log? It might look the same as the one from 1.3.8, but it'll have some small differences that are important.

But I am also still seeing 19270872 story tellers.
I likely just didn't reduce the frequency enough to make much of a difference. I might also need to increase some of their cooldowns.

I haven't touched the options at all.  I will try 1.3.9 version again just to see if I possibly made a mistake while updating.
How many markets did you check without seeing any storytellers? It might have just been bad luck. It's also possible for faction mods to disable storytellers at their market's, but as far as I know no one has done that. What kinds of markets have you been checking? Were they all owned by the same modded faction?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on October 29, 2019, 04:29:05 AM
Well, I reinstalled the mod (redownloaded, unzipped. Deleted old, pasted etc.) Started a new campaign (was thinking it anyway, and wanting to add a few last mods before I stop adding mods lol).

There are a lot less story tellers now. So probably I didn't install it correctly, or it didn't wanna replace the junk in that save.

Either way, if I come across the error again I will paste it here. But I'll still look at it and compare, see if I can find any differences.

Edit: It is different enough (pointing to different specific lines). So I'll PM it to you.

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 10:14:26 AM
How many markets did you check without seeing any storytellers? It might have just been bad luck. It's also possible for faction mods to disable storytellers at their market's, but as far as I know no one has done that. What kinds of markets have you been checking? Were they all owned by the same modded faction?

It turns out it was bad luck.  I tried it on a new save and it worked fine.  I tried it on the Hegemony, Independents, and Neutrino Corp. (Corvus system)

I also noticed that 1.3.8 isn't working on my pre-existing save anymore.  I got one or two storyteller encounters after rolling back, but I have been experiencing the same issues with 1.3.9 now; haven't been seeing any bar encounters.

I tried 1.3.9 again on my current save, and I'm still getting the same issues as before: no "storytellers."
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 10:55:53 AM
After more testing, I confirmed that storyteller encounters do work, but they only show up the first time you've loaded a save after starting the game.  I tried finding more after loading the second time:  No dice.

They seem to work fine on a fresh save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2019, 11:42:17 AM
I still can't reproduce this issue... Here's what I tried:
Started a fresh save
Checked Jangala and Asharu for storytellers
Reloaded and checked Jangala and Asharu again (5 times)

Each time I checked Asharu had a storyteller but Jangala didn't. Am I trying to reproduce this incorrectly?
I don't know why another mod might interfere with storytellers, but it might be a mod compatibility issue. Could you attach your enabled_mods.json?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 02:36:15 PM
I still can't reproduce this issue... Here's what I tried:
Started a fresh save
Checked Jangala and Asharu for storytellers
Reloaded and checked Jangala and Asharu again (5 times)

Each time I checked Asharu had a storyteller but Jangala didn't. Am I trying to reproduce this incorrectly?
I don't know why another mod might interfere with storytellers, but it might be a mod compatibility issue. Could you attach your enabled_mods.json?

It sounds like you're trying to reproduce it correctly.

I am playing on a new save now, so I will let you know if I encounter any more problems.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Daidez on October 29, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
I've been playing on the new save for a while, and everything seems to be working fine.  There must've been something broken in my pre-update save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2019, 06:57:16 PM
Ok, cool. Thanks for updating me. I'm not sure what it could be, but I guess you must be right about something being wrong with your old save.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Alavaria on November 02, 2019, 03:32:28 AM
I had three storytellers, in three planets in the same system, tell me about the same person, using the same Siegfried dreadnought in the same system.

But in each of these, the special notable traits of the ship were different. Will go there and see if the game has spawned three fleets for me to kill.

Spoiler
(http://lpix.org/3573709/triple_story.jpg)
[close]

Update: Changed my plans and immediately ran over. Killed 1 fleet, and all the entries disappeared. Looked around the system, didn't seem to be any other fleets.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 03, 2019, 09:12:54 AM
Thanks for the report! I should be able to get these fixes into the next patch:
Quote
Fixed the possibility for multiple storyteller events to choose the same target fleet
Fixed famous flagship traits being based on the storyteller's market instead of the fleet commander
(edit: after looking at the code, it seems like this should already be the case. Not sure what's going wrong)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 05, 2019, 06:40:31 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.10 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed stat changes from NPC fleet trait not being reflected in the stats cards of enemy ships (both before and during battle)
Fixed NPC fleets having different traits during different play sessions
Fixed famous flagship intel "show on map" showing the exact location of the fleet instead of just the system
Fixed the possibility for multiple storyteller events to choose the same target fleet
Fixed another error that could sometimes close the bar dialog when viewed
Fixed the ability to save-scum storyteller events (the same event will now be generated every time after reloading)
Fixed storytellers telling "fanciful fabrications" (which means an invalid mission was generated) far too often in some cases
Changes for the Excelsior and Royco (script-heavy ships from Ship and Weapon Pack):
         Hull damage no longer counts against rating at all for these ships, unless they're disabled
         Flux related traits can no longer be received for these ships

I also added log entries that help explain why invalid missions ("fanciful fabrications") were generated for storyteller events. Ideally storytellers are always supposed to offer useful information, but in some saves, a combination of mods and/or other factors seems to throw a wrench in the mission generation process sometimes. So if you find any storytellers that are full of crap and want to help me get rid of them, please send me the last hundred or so lines of your starsector.log file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DornoDiosMio on November 06, 2019, 02:55:28 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.10 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed stat changes from NPC fleet trait not being reflected in the stats cards of enemy ships (both before and during battle)
Fixed NPC fleets having different traits during different play sessions
Fixed famous flagship intel "show on map" showing the exact location of the fleet instead of just the system
Fixed the possibility for multiple storyteller events to choose the same target fleet
Fixed another error that could sometimes close the bar dialog when viewed
Fixed the ability to save-scum storyteller events (the same event will now be generated every time after reloading)
Fixed storytellers telling "fanciful fabrications" (which means an invalid mission was generated) far too often in some cases
Changes for the Excelsior and Royco (script-heavy ships from Ship and Weapon Pack):
   Hull damage no longer counts against rating at all, unless the ship is disabled
   Flux related traits can no longer be received
/quote]

Are the flux related traits no longer possible to receive on any ship or just the two ships mentioned from the Ship & Weapons Pack? It seems like you are referring only to those 2 ships, but I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks for the mod and all the work you put into it. It's great!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.9 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 06, 2019, 05:58:17 PM
Are the flux related traits no longer possible to receive on any ship or just the two ships mentioned from the Ship & Weapons Pack? It seems like you are referring only to those 2 ships, but I just wanted to make sure.
Those two ships use flux in a very unconventional way, so it only applies to them. I can see why you might be unsure though. I'll edit the post to clarify.

Thanks for the mod and all the work you put into it. It's great!
Glad you like it  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SarenSoran on November 08, 2019, 07:24:48 AM
i've got a bug that tells me to notify you of it, no clue what this means tbh

if it helps you with the problem, i had this boi hunt some frigates via my second in command after i destroyed a pirate armada

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 08, 2019, 05:59:17 PM
Thanks for reporting this! Sorry for the trouble. Is there any chance I could get your save file along with your enabled_mods.json file? Someone else reported something similar and said the ID value was changing every time they re-opened the refit screen. Is that the case for you as well?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: validfrom on November 09, 2019, 08:05:52 PM
I've encountered the same problem and I've also noticed changing ID values when going into the refit screen. https://imgur.com/a/MxgwzNs I'm willing to share the campaign files but there's a size restriction to forum attachments. How would you prefer to receive the saves?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.10 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 09, 2019, 10:48:19 PM
Thanks validfrom! SarenSoran actually did get their files to me by transferring them via discord (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11488.msg195852#msg195852). If I can load up one save file affected by this issue then I should be able to pinpoint the cause, but if you want to send me your save and mod_info file as well it might come in handy (especially your mod_info file, as I suspect this might be a mod conflict). My discord handle is Sundog#3161
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 11, 2019, 06:38:11 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.11 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed reputation data being erased the first time a new game was saved, causing all kinds of trouble, including reputation hullmods displaying error messages
Fixed loyalty changes occurring for ships with no traits (and therefore no reputation hullmods)
Added "PrintStarshipLegendsData" console command, which prints starship legends data


This patch will prevent the broken reputation hullmods that some people have gotten. Unfortunately it won't restore lost traits, but affected ships will be able to earn new reputations properly. Pinpointing the cause of this issue was a very time consuming process, but it would've been nearly impossible without the bug reports and info I received thanks to psiklaw, validfrom, Avanitia, PNG1, SarenSoran, and Lesolan! Thanks all!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 13, 2019, 06:38:50 AM
So this is an odd one. I have a tonne of mods, and ruthless sector. And I have fiddled with your files a bit admittedly. However it seems that I can't reset reputations for ships that have loyalty towards an officer/captain. No matter how long I mothball them. It also seemed that it took more than (I set it to 15 from 10) 15 days for it to reset on a ship that had no loyalty. Even after resinstalling SSL and RS ships with loyalty dont seem to decrease.

It could be mod interference, it could be a result of my fiddling. I don't know for sure. But I just want to make sure that this is not an issue with the mod itself. And is there a way to reset it for ships from the save file or some such?

Edit: I also recall I initially mothballed them with their respective officers onboard.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 06:08:18 PM
Hey, thanks for the report. Starship legends logs events related to clearing traits. Could you tell me if you're seeing messages in starsector.log about the time remaining before ship's reputations are removed? They should happen every three days or so.

It also seemed that it took more than (I set it to 15 from 10) 15 days for it to reset on a ship that had no loyalty.
How many traits did that ship have? It takes X days per trait to remove a ship's reputation, so the only time it would take about 15 days in this case is if the ship only had one trait.

And is there a way to reset it for ships from the save file or some such?
Yeah, you can use "clearRep" with Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106) to remove a ship's reputation instantly. Enter "help clearRep" for instructions on specifying which ship or ships to select.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Phoenixheart on November 13, 2019, 06:14:07 PM
Just to get some clarification on clearing rep -

1. When mothballing a ship to clear rep, I assume you have to keep the ship in your fleet mothballed for this to work? It looks like when you store a mothballed ship it is no longer technically mothballed as far as the game is concerned.

2. For the X days per trait, are they removed all at once at the end of the total number of days, or are they removed one at a time as each X number of days pass?

3. Pretty sure I know the answer already, but does it store mothball progress, or is it reset if the ship is briefly un-moth'd and then re-mothballed?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 07:00:00 PM
1. When mothballing a ship to clear rep, I assume you have to keep the ship in your fleet mothballed for this to work? It looks like when you store a mothballed ship it is no longer technically mothballed as far as the game is concerned.
It should still work in storage, even if you mouse over the question mark and the CR meter fills up. Starship legends checks a list of all ships with reputations to see if they're mothballed, not just the ships in your fleet.

2. For the X days per trait, are they removed all at once at the end of the total number of days, or are they removed one at a time as each X number of days pass?
The entire reputation is removed once the required number of days has passed (or up to 3 days after that). This includes officer loyalties and combat rating.

3. Pretty sure I know the answer already, but does it store mothball progress, or is it reset if the ship is briefly un-moth'd and then re-mothballed?
The timer will reset, but it's only checked every three days, so if a ship is only un-mothballed briefly then starship legends might not "notice"
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 13, 2019, 08:33:44 PM
Hey, thanks for the report. Starship legends logs events related to clearing traits. Could you tell me if you're seeing messages in starsector.log about the time remaining before ship's reputations are removed? They should happen every three days or so.

It also seemed that it took more than (I set it to 15 from 10) 15 days for it to reset on a ship that had no loyalty.
How many traits did that ship have? It takes X days per trait to remove a ship's reputation, so the only time it would take about 15 days in this case is if the ship only had one trait.

And is there a way to reset it for ships from the save file or some such?
Yeah, you can use "clearRep" with Console Commands (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106) to remove a ship's reputation instantly. Enter "help clearRep" for instructions on specifying which ship or ships to select.

I'll take a look at the log in a bit. But afaik it took only about 30 days (which is the normal amount afaik from SSL, vs SSL RS) for the non-officer ship to lose it's 1 trait. The other ships between 3-4 traits each, and aren't even losing 1 trait after being mothballed for several months at a time (in storage or out).

Worst case I'll just clear rep em.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Ok, thanks for the details. I'll see if I can reproduce the issue using a ship that has loyalties. Feel free to send me your log if you like. I might end up needing it anyway.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 13, 2019, 09:05:31 PM
@I_is_nublet: I just tested again with a ship that was openly insubordinate to its NPC captain and the reputation cleared in the expected timeframe. Are there any other factors you can think of that might be preventing it from working?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 13, 2019, 10:01:11 PM
I think I was saving and loading regularly.

6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_vesper 1dd22 has 67 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stormkestrel_proto 16625 has 67 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - wolf 1dd68 has 52 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - crig 2221e has 42 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - xlu_cobalt c2d79 has 67 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6203513 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stoat 51e68 has 52 days left before its reputation is cleared.

Goes to about.

6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_vesper 1dd22 has 43 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stormkestrel_proto 16625 has 43 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - wolf 1dd68 has 28 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - crig 2221e has 18 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - xlu_cobalt c2d79 has 43 days left before its reputation is cleared.
6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - istl_stoat 51e68 has 28 days left before its reputation is cleared.

Then resets.

I would also point out that these are modded ships (not vanilla). So there is that to consider (and AFAIK they are not mods listed as part of your integration).

I need to make it a zip file. Sec.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1dc6s8nfk5lsae4/starsector.log.zip?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y5vxu9xrb3exoe6/starsector.zip?dl=0

As always, keep up the good work and we all appreciate what you do :)

And for clarification, the traits don't seem to be removed after mothballing for X amount of time. I am not sure about loyalty itself, I will look at it tomorrow at some point (12 hours or so) to make sure about that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 14, 2019, 08:27:16 AM
Alrighty, I looked ingame at their loyalty ratings, and tried mothballing them for around 90 days (in my fleet, not in storage) without saving or loading. (Ah, it seems I saved right before I started. Arg).

Their loyalty ratings have dropped from 20-30% increase to CR to 0. So that is dropping at least.

Now I'll try to see if the ratings drop when I have an officer in them while they are mothballed. And if that doesnt work, put them in storage and try.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 14, 2019, 09:07:39 AM
Ok, so 1 ship had loyalty (CR based) still, as the ship that officer was currently commissioned to had negative loyalty.

I put that one with the officer in it and mothballed it for > 90 days. No change.

I put the others into storage, after I mothballed them for half a day, for > 90 days. No change.

I put the one with loyalty into storage for > 90 days as well. No change.

I did however try the clearrep on 1 ship, and that did work  ;D

So, im guessing it's some kind of mod conflict if you can't recreate it (only thing I can think of is to have 1 officer have greater than 10% loyalty still in the mothballed ship, and then not have him change to another ship).

But I'll be ok now that I know how to clearrep. Not an ideal solution, but it IS a solution. :)

Thank you for your time and consideration, I appreciate it :)

Edit: these are raw files, unzipped (so much bigger). However I did not realize I overwrote the starsector.zip file before hand until I did so. So there is that. But just in case you want to go through them as well to see what is going on (if anything stands out).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxg8h6a6balljgl/starsector.log.1?dl=0

and

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ux3apf6icxlotxd/starsector.log?dl=0

Edit 2: i did all the testing without loading/saving this time round just FYI.

Edit 3: One thing I just realized it's listing 6 ships as mothballed in the log. I only have 5 in my fleet that im mothballing. Hm.

6960695 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.CampaignScript  - crig 2221e has 18 days left before its reputation is cleared.

Is the only one I don't know what it is. The rest seem correct after checking with console to see where they are sold.

AHA! It's a salvage rig. I probably sold that while it was still mothballed. That is probably what is causing this whole thing to loop over and over!

Something so minor, I completely forgot I did it. I genuinely dont remember selling it, but if it's listed there as mothballed I probably sold it. I had no officer commissioned to it. Just straight up civie ship.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 14, 2019, 04:50:16 PM
Wow, thanks for all the investigative work! Looks like the timer for removing reputations is resetting at the beginning of each month, making it impossible for reputations that require more than 30 days to reset. Whenever I've tested this in the past I've always set "daysMothballedPerTraitToResetReputation" to 2 or 3, so I never noticed this problem. I should be able to get a patch out in a few days. Thanks again for all your help with this!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 14, 2019, 05:57:18 PM
Haha, no problem. I'm just glad to have been able to help. Even if the problem was something less complicated than I thought it was lol.

Keep up the awesome work!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 14, 2019, 11:40:11 PM
I've recently updated the Starship Legends version my game uses, but now I get a 'Please notify the author' message that just has 'null' instead of any useful information. After the first ~5-10 seconds of gameplay, it becomes a constant popup, to the point where the game is literally unplayable because as soon as I close the notice it pops up again.

The older version of Starship Legends, which worked fine a few days ago, did not do this. What can I do to help figure out what's going wrong?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 15, 2019, 06:46:23 AM
Thanks for reporting this, and sorry for the trouble! Do you know which version you updated from? Could you send me the log file at starsector-core/starsector.log or post the last hundred or so lines of it here? If you've changed the options file, could you send that as well?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 15, 2019, 09:56:26 AM
It doesn't seem to have a changelog, but I think it was 1.1.11.

29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: hegemony
29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: knights_of_ludd
29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: luddic_path
29772 [Thread-4] INFO  starship_legends.FactionConfig  - Reading custom section for faction: tritachyon
29983 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 34
29983 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 35
30032 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 36
30032 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 37
30034 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 38
30034 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 39 - last
31756 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [miscallenous_main_menu.ogg]
31995 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
31996 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
36410 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 5.0 for market [Asher]
36743 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
36967 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Added trade fleet route from Volturn to Tibicena
36996 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
36996 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
37568 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 9.0 for market [Kazeron]
37578 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 9.0 for market [Cruor]
37614 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 5.0 for market [Cruor]
37658 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 6.0 for market [Sindria]
37665 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 6.0 for market [Nortia]
38997 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
38997 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
51553 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 8.0 for market [Sindria]
51800 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [faction_generic_market_01_neutral_var01.ogg]
51999 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
52678 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.AnalyzeEntityMissionIntel  - Created AnalyzeEntityMissionIntel: Domain-era Probe, faction: Luddic Church
53179 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.BaseLimitedFleetManager  - Spawned fleet [pirate raiders] at hyperloc Vector2f[-10600.0, -1200.0]
53454 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.RepChange.apply(RepChange.java:129)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.advance(CampaignScript.java:547)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

54804 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.RepChange.apply(RepChange.java:129)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.advance(CampaignScript.java:547)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

64525 [Thread-8] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
65000 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Creating streaming player for music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
65000 [Thread-10] INFO  sound.null  - Playing music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]

That's the last few, above that it's pretty much just loading standard Starsector stuff. I didn't change the Options file as far as I can remember.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 15, 2019, 10:02:08 AM
Quote
It doesn't seem to have a changelog, but I think it was 1.1.11.

The changelog should be in the modfile for SSL. File path should look like C:\Program Files (x86)\Fractal Softworks\Starsector\mods\Starship Legends and the changelog should be just a "text document" type file.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 15, 2019, 11:30:57 AM
Yeah, I know. It doesn't have one. The more recent version does, but the old one doesn't. the Mod_info.json file lists it as 1.0, but I don't think it gets changed between versions.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 15, 2019, 12:38:01 PM
Yeah, I know. It doesn't have one. The more recent version does, but the old one doesn't. the Mod_info.json file lists it as 1.0, but I don't think it gets changed between versions.

Mine currently does

{
   "id":"sun_starship_legends",
   "name":"Starship Legends",
    "utility": "false",
   "author":"Sundog",
   "version":"1.3.11",
   "description":"Gives your ships and their crew personality as their reputations grow, granting traits that influence the ship's performance.",
    "gameVersion":"0.9.1a-RC8",
   "jars":["jars/StarshipLegends.jar"],
    "modPlugin":"starship_legends.ModPlugin",
}

Do you remember around when you last updated it? That might help a bit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 15, 2019, 06:12:30 PM
Yeah, I know. It doesn't have one. The more recent version does, but the old one doesn't. the Mod_info.json file lists it as 1.0, but I don't think it gets changed between versions.
I do change it between versions, and 1.0 should be the only version without a changelog, so it looks like the original version you were using was indeed 1.0. I do my best to make sure new versions are save compatible, but going from 1.0.0 to 1.3.11 is quite a leap, so I'm not surprised there was some trouble.

After looking at the code, it looks like the problem is caused by a reputation change being queued that later versions don't handle correctly, so sorry about that! I'll make sure this type of situation is handled more gracefully in the future.

For now, it should be possible to use new versions of starship legends if that reputation change is removed from the queue, which you can do by loading your game with starship legends 1.0 and waiting for all of the reputation change notifications to show up. Alternatively, you could set "removeAllDataAndFeatures" to true at the bottom of the options file, load up your game, save it, close starsector, and change the setting back to false. That should delete all starship legends data, including the problematic reputation change.

Again, sorry for the trouble, and thanks for bringing this issue to my attention. Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kyatzli on November 15, 2019, 07:20:11 PM
Thanks for figuring out the problem!
I've done what you said and it's all working now, thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.11 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 15, 2019, 07:35:09 PM
No problem! Glad it worked  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 18, 2019, 12:24:54 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.12 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed reputation resets never occuring if the required time to clear the ship's reputation exceded 30 days
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned
Fixed storyteller events breaking if the game was saved and reloaded between first seeing the event and accepting it
Fixed an error that could occur when updating from very old versions of starship legends
Fixed a few typos
Added new integration functionality meant to make it easy for mod authors to allow retrofitted ships to retain their reputations:
   starship_legends.Reputation.transferReputation(FleetMemberAPI from, FleetMemberAPI to)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: I_is_nublet on November 18, 2019, 01:26:01 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.12 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed reputation resets never occuring if the required time to clear the ship's reputation exceded 30 days
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned
Fixed storyteller events breaking if the game was saved and reloaded between first seeing the event and accepting it
Fixed an error that could occur when updating from very old versions of starship legends
Fixed a few typos
Added new integration functionality meant to make it easy for mod authors to allow retrofitted ships to retain their reputations:
   starship_legends.Reputation.transferReputation(FleetMemberAPI from, FleetMemberAPI to)

Nice! Grats on mod status!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: ASSIMKO on November 18, 2019, 02:46:11 PM


Congratulations, for the stars rocks and titles, sundog. :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 19, 2019, 05:27:52 PM
Thanks guys  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Buff Skeleton on November 20, 2019, 06:32:11 PM
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned

Excellent! Pretty sure this was what was going on in that post I made a while back. Damn, you've sure been busy -- I think I was on v1.3.8 or something at that time!

Thanks for putting so much thought into this mod; it's definitely one of the best additions to Starsector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 20, 2019, 07:01:09 PM
Fixed loyalty to the player character being reset for a ship if the reputation hullmod tooltip was viewed without any captain being assigned

Excellent! Pretty sure this was what was going on in that post I made a while back.
Yeah, I think you're right! In fact, it looks like I never replied to your bug report, which means I probably forgot to look into it. That's a shame. I probably could've fixed the issue three patches ago if I had paid more attention.

Damn, you've sure been busy
Yeah, true, unfortunately. When I set out to make this mod I wasn't planning for it to be so hard to maintain, and yet here we are 30 versions later ::)

Thanks for putting so much thought into this mod; it's definitely one of the best additions to Starsector.
;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: XpanD on November 21, 2019, 04:19:18 AM
Awesome mod, just finished a run using this. Adds a lot of flavor to your fleet! Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.12 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 21, 2019, 04:00:31 PM
Glad you enjoyed it  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 24, 2019, 10:38:22 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.13 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Fixed new storyteller bar events temporarily not being created in some cases
Fixed some player ships having the effects of the enemy fleet's reputation during battle in some cases
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Valikdu on November 28, 2019, 11:06:44 AM
Question: what is it that causes an AI persona to become insubordinate and what can I do about it? (or is it random?)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 29, 2019, 06:52:32 AM
AI loyalty works exactly the same as crew loyalty, just with different flavor text. Basically, loyalty has a chance to get worse after a battle in which the ship does poorly, and it has a chance to improve if the ship does well. How well a ship does in battle is based on the rating it gets for a given battle. There are a lot of details about how it works in the "Frequent Questions" section of the original post.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: WASP103 on December 01, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Just noticed that when you win a fight but decide not to pursue/join pursuit, then the battle report ends up as a lost battle :/
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 01, 2019, 08:40:03 PM
Hey, thanks for letting me know! Is this for battles involving allied fleets? I just tried to reproduce this by fighting some pirates, allowing a kite to escape, and choosing "let them go," but it resulted in a victory.

Also, just so you know, whether the battle report shows victory or defeat doesn't really matter. It's just flavor text and it doesn't affect ratings or anything. Still, I would prefer for it to not to be wrong, so any further details you can provide would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: WASP103 on December 02, 2019, 03:27:20 AM
Hey, thanks for letting me know! Is this for battles involving allied fleets? I just tried to reproduce this by fighting some pirates, allowing a kite to escape, and choosing "let them go," but it resulted in a victory.

Also, just so you know, whether the battle report shows victory or defeat doesn't really matter. It's just flavor text and it doesn't affect ratings or anything. Still, I would prefer for it to not to be wrong, so any further details you can provide would be greatly appreciated!
Yep, I noticed it doesn't influence the ships' outcome. and I think it's together with an allied fleet when I decide to not join the pursuit.
Thanks for looking into it :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 02, 2019, 05:59:10 PM
Yep, I noticed it doesn't influence the ships' outcome. and I think it's together with an allied fleet when I decide to not join the pursuit.
Ok, good to know. I'll try to reproduce it that way once I get the chance.

Thanks for looking into it :)
No problem. And thanks again for the info. I'd never be able to find all these little bugs on my own.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 07:11:23 AM
My guess that loss of a few ships with Loyalty changes in more than one wipes other involved in recovery, but again - that's merely a guess.
Fought station, lost 3 (three) - on recovery only one got proper Loyalty change, other wiped to Indifferent. Traits were not affected.
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8qCRwZB/image.png)
[close]
/second is a full pic just for "non-edit" clearance/
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/NF99L68V/screenshot000.png)
[close]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 14, 2019, 09:25:11 AM
Hey, thanks for telling me about this! Let me make sure I understand what happened:
Correct? If so this is a bug.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
Yeah.
All crews were Fiercely Loyal, after combat only one reported change happened properly(Tempest Yanhui), and one reported to become Loyal changed instead to Indifferent (Hammerhead Jiayi), and one w/o report of any kind of Loyalty change become Indifferent (Tempest Zhenshang).
Maybe it should be mentioned that I have increased amount of officers, for increased amount of ships in fleet(s), which in turn for increased battlesize. 20 max IIRC, but only 18 commands ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 14, 2019, 10:34:54 AM
Ah, ok. Thanks for the details. Let me see if I can figure out what went wrong. Did you change any starship legends options?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 10:43:16 AM
Did you change any starship legends options?
Nope.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
There is another thing I've got outta nowhere (am I lucky, innit?)

Bounty (vanilla one, I don't have IBB/Vayra mods) spawned, then got info about it from bar storyteller - clicking on "Personal bounty" info after I've looked into flagship details on Intelligence screen leads to crash.
I've clicked on that info when it just spawned, before storyteller brought details, game been cool with it.

Intelligence screen shot
(https://i.ibb.co/x3C0hz6/screenshot012.png)
[close]

NullPointerException
[Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.String.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.addIconFor(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.addShipList(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.PersonBountyIntel.createSmallDescripti on(PersonBountyIntel.java:927)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.return.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.String.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

...and repeats, ye, it's guaranteed -

scientific repeat
[Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.String.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.addIconFor(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.addShipList(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.PersonBountyIntel.createSmallDescripti on(PersonBountyIntel.java:927)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.return.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.String.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

i'll f***ing do it again.txt
[Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.A.new.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.String.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.P.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.oOOo.addIconFor(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.addShipList(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.PersonBountyIntel.createSmallDescripti on(PersonBountyIntel.java:927)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e$Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.e.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.v2.EventsPanel.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.comms.return.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.String.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

**Bad news**
I've tried to kill it anyway, and game crashed immediately when that fleet blimped on radar
And I don't have save before getting flagship info to check if bounty isn't broken itself.  :(

Surprise to be sure, and not welcome one
162405 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.getSizeWithModules(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetMemberView.<init>(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.createItemView(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.createItemView(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.util.CollectionView.sync(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleetView.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.CampaignFleet.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.BaseLocation.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.StarSystem.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: xucthclu on December 14, 2019, 03:15:27 PM
Decent mod, however, could you tell me what determines the traits that logistics ship end up getting? My logistics ships keep getting mostly negative traits through exploration and surveys, and you never seemed to explain what determines the percentage of good vs bad traits on logistics ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 14, 2019, 04:48:41 PM
@Kulverstukass: One of the ships in that bounty fleet is broken somehow. It probably has a weapon or hullmod that's not configured properly, which is causing the game to crash. This problem didn't exist before you talked to that storyteller because until then none of the ships in the fleet had any weapons or hullmods (the game doesn't add those until necessary, and starship legends forced it to add them so it could display the flagship's details). I'm fairly certain the problem wasn't caused by starship legends, but I can't completely rule out the possibility, so if you want to send me your save file and enabled_mods.json file I'll take a look. I can't make any promises though. This kind of problem can be difficult to figure out.

Decent mod, however, could you tell me what determines the traits that logistics ship end up getting? My logistics ships keep getting mostly negative traits through exploration and surveys, and you never seemed to explain what determines the percentage of good vs bad traits on logistics ships.
Yeah, I need to explain that and a few other things on the first page of this thread. Anyway, it's completely random. By default there's a 50% chance for civilian ships to get a negative trait. You can adjust the chance by changing "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" in the options file.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 14, 2019, 11:59:20 PM
@Kulverstukass: One of the ships in that bounty fleet is broken somehow. It probably has a weapon or hullmod that's not configured properly, which is causing the game to crash. This problem didn't exist before you talked to that storyteller because until then none of the ships in the fleet had any weapons or hullmods (the game doesn't add those until necessary, and starship legends forced it to add them so it could display the flagship's details). I'm fairly certain the problem wasn't caused by starship legends, but I can't completely rule out the possibility, so if you want to send me your save file and enabled_mods.json file I'll take a look. I can't make any promises though. This kind of problem can be difficult to figure out.
If you insist  ::)
https://www92.zippyshare.com/v/ZsaM8YsW/file.html
enabled mods
{"enabledMods": [
  "automatic-orders",
  "lw_autosave",
  "timid_admins",
  "NeutrinoDetector",
  "Boggled Terraforming",
  "chatter",
  "lw_radar",
  "lw_console",
  "edshipyard",
  "gates_awakened",
  "ZGrand Sector",
  "Imperium",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "leadingPip",
  "MagicLib",
  "SCY",
  "bonomel_skilledup",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "Boggled Station Construction",
  "tahlan",
  "THI",
  "transfer_all_items",
  "ungp",
  "lw_version_checker",
  "shaderLib"
]}
[close]
It's getting very kind of you  :)
and screenshot of mods folder for simplier mod names (and Logistics Notifications aren't on) AND "gates awakened" are 1.3.1 if needed.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 16, 2019, 05:31:37 PM
Ok, so I took a look at your save file and found out the flagship of the bounty is a ship with modules (like a station). I still can't be certain, but that makes it much more likely that the crashes you experienced were caused by starship legends. It looks like NPC fleets containing ships with modules that have SL reputation hullmods can cause these kinds of issues. The only time that should ever happen is if a ship with modules is chosen as a famous flagship by a storyteller event. Unfortunately, I can't fix the underlying issue without changing some fundamental things about how the mod works, so for now I'll just have to make sure ships with modules are never chosen as famous flagships by the storyteller event. Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. I should be able to get a patch out in the next day or two.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 17, 2019, 02:10:52 PM
A bug I encountered: If you select a ship for deployment in battle, then cancel that selection, the post-battle report will still consider that ship to have been deployed, including reputation changes.

Example screenshot:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/jAjwQ5u.png)
[close]
In this battle, only the Tempest and Conquest were deployed. But before the battle I accidentally clicked Deploy All, and had to un-select all my ships to deploy only the two. As you can see, these ships were all still considered deployed, with 0% damage inflicted/taken, and several got rep changes.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 17, 2019, 05:17:19 PM
Thanks for the report! I'm having a hard time reproducing the issue. Can you think of any other factor that might be needed to cause this to happen? Can you reproduce the issue reliably? Do you think any of the mods you're using might interfere with deployment selections somehow? I thought ruthless sector might be involved, but I can't reproduce the issue with or without it.

Actually, after taking another look at your screenshot, it looks like your Punisher and Corocotta weren't deployed. As combat ships, I would expect them to have been selected for deployment when you clicked the all button. Did this battle have multiple engagements by any chance? Starship legends will count a ship as deployed if it participates in any engagement of a battle (including pursuits), and will only generate one battle report no matter how many engagements there were for a battle.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 17, 2019, 06:42:10 PM
I will attempt to reproduce this some more times. I am using Ruthless Sector. Actually let me dump the list:
Spoiler
  "lw_autosave",
  "COPS",
  "lw_console",
  "edshipyard",
  "interestingportraitspack",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "MagicLib",
  "nexerelin",
  "sun_ruthless_sector",
  "SCY",
  "shadow_ships",
  "swp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "tahlan",
  "THI",
  "underworld",
  "vayrasector",
  "vayrashippack",
  "shaderLib"
[close]

Actually, after taking another look at your screenshot, it looks like your Punisher and Corocotta weren't deployed. As combat ships, I would expect them to have been selected for deployment when you clicked the all button.
I'm pretty sure that was purely an effect of my small battle size, they were not far up enough on the list and were cut off by the DP limit. It was not a multiple engagement battle.

Edit: I realized my Ruthless Sector is an older version (1.2.2), that could be the problem.

Edit2: No, on review what probably happened is I did send the fleet into pursuit auto-resolve, and forgot about it. I will attempt to reproduce it one more time, but this is probably not a bug, just my mistake.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 17, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Ah, ok. Well I guess I won't worry about it then. Please let me know if you do manage to reproduce something like that though.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kulverstukass on December 18, 2019, 02:25:01 AM
Ok, so I took a look at your save file and found out the flagship of the bounty is a ship with modules (like a station). Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. I should be able to get a patch out in the next day or two.
Thank you very much for your work, with this issue and mod in general!
In the time being I'm gonna abstain from asking storytellers about SCY bounties flagships, as both of their capital warships are modular.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 22, 2019, 05:36:51 AM
Okay, here's a bug for real this time. Twice I have gotten a popup saying "Starship Legends error, let the mod author know." The code given was "null."

In both circumstances, I had module ships in my fleet (I know they have caused problems in this mod before). Both times the error was triggered in the overworld - I'm guessing it was one of the triggers to give logistics ships a reputation change, but I'm not sure. The first time happened right after adding a ship with console commands, and the second time happened right after a save. Both times, the module ships I had were added with console commands, in case that matters.

Edit: It happened twice more, under the same circumstances (right after a save both times).

Edit2: The key factor seems to be the console-spawning, not the modules. I was able to reproduce the error with the following steps:
- Spawn a ship with console command
- Save with f5
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 22, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
Well that's a real shame.
The only way for me to fix the issues with modular ships (short of risky hacks) is to remove support for trait bonuses propagating to modules. By the looks of it, that's what I'll have to do, but I want to look into other options first.

For the moment, I'll add a warning to the OP about these issues.

Anyway, thanks for the report. It's not good news, but at least I know now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 22, 2019, 11:08:29 AM
Edit2: The key factor seems to be the console-spawning, not the modules. I was able to reproduce the error with the following steps:
- Spawn a ship with console command
- Save with f5
Hmm... I think there must be something more going on. I just spawned a Nemealion, Cathedral, and Basalisk with console commands, saving between each spawn, and didn't have any issues. Adding traits to them prior to saving didn't cause any problems either. What ship did you spawn? What kind of errors are you getting? Do you use setHullVariantId at all for any KT ships?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 22, 2019, 07:25:54 PM
I'm away from the computer, so I can't test or confirm anything at the moment, but here's everything I can think that I was doing in my games that caused problems.

I'm currently testing a Vayra bounty, and it is a module ship. However, the errors appeared before the bounty did.

Each time I spawned ships, I also added supplies, fuel, and crew, and repaired.

The first two times I got the error, I had spawned a couple Basilisks. Then, in a completely new save, I spawned only two Atlas, and the aforementioned supplies etc, before saving. And I got the same error. I repeated this twice in two new games.

The error was a popup, saying "Starship Legends has encountered an error, please let the mod author know." Below that was simply the word "null."

I can't recall using SetHullVariantId in any code I've written.

So, maybe it's a problem with my Vayra bounty? I will try disabling it and see if that helps.

EDIT: Okay, I've been testing. It's definitely something in the KT mod. I started by removing the Vayra bounty, then everything else I added over the past couple days. The error persists. Here's what it looks like for the record:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/l4RU8bR.png)
[close]
and it appears as soon as I quicksave, right after starting a fresh game.

The last release version of KT seems to work fine with SL, so I suppose I'll start with that and add things back in until I get the error.

EDIT2: Okay, I give up. I've tried re-implementing everything I had added to my draft mod into my released mod. No error, SL works just fine. So I have no clue what could have gone wrong.
I guess it means there's no problem - and sorry for the wild goose chase. Very strange overall. I'll be back if I start seeing these errors again.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 22, 2019, 10:06:24 PM
The error was a popup, saying "Starship Legends has encountered an error, please let the mod author know." Below that was simply the word "null."
Sorry, I should have clarified. When a message like that pops up it logs the stack trace to starsector.log, just as if there had been a full crash.

The last release version of KT seems to work fine with SL, so I suppose I'll start with that and add things back in until I get the error.

EDIT2: Okay, I give up. I've tried re-implementing everything I had added to my draft mod into my released mod. No error, SL works just fine. So I have no clue what could have gone wrong.
I guess it means there's no problem - and sorry for the wild goose chase. Very strange overall. I'll be back if I start seeing these errors again.
Well, that is very disconcerting, but at least there doesn't seem to be a released incompatibility. Please do let me know if you find out anything more about what the cause might have been. That seems like a mystery worth solving.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on December 22, 2019, 10:31:14 PM
I'm trying to post this log, but the forum isn't even letting me post it. Curiouser. I'm going to try to PM it to you.

EDIT: PM doen't work either. let me try pastebin.

https://pastebin.com/bDRKdtRx

Okay, there it is...looks module related indeed. I hope it sheds some light on something - no idea what's wrong with the forum today.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: xucthclu on December 24, 2019, 02:50:15 AM
A ship I'm playing with seems to be stuck at famous rep levels, even though I pilot it in almost every engagement, whereas some newer ships seem to be all the way up to legendary. Why could that be?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.13 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 24, 2019, 04:00:59 PM
My guess would be bad RNG, but there's always the possibility it could be something else. The chance to get a new trait is based on the amount of xp earned in a battle. By default it takes five times as much xp to guarantee a new legendary trait than a famous one, so it can be a bit of a crapshoot at that tier even if you're fighting huge battles.

If you suspect a bug, you could drastically reduce the xp requirement in the settings, like this:

Quote
   "legendary":{
      "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait":100,
      "effectMult":8,
   },
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 27, 2019, 12:47:36 PM
Starship Legends 1.3.14 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Removed the possibility for ships with modules to be chosen as famous flagships or derelicts, as this could lead to crashes (this won't be necessary with the next version of Starsector)
Fixed loyalties being reset in many circumstances.
Fixed a problem that increased the number of storytellers that tell "fanciful fabrications"
Added Escape as a hotkey for all "leave" options related to storyteller events
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Histidine on January 02, 2020, 06:28:56 AM
Bug: My Excelsior didn't have hull damage registered or lose rating when disabled but then recovered.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 02, 2020, 12:55:50 PM
Thanks for the report! Sorry about that. I'll make sure to fix it for the next release.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Schwartz on January 05, 2020, 01:58:47 PM
The 'no hull tamage taken' bug is still floating around. I've had it happen several times that the whole fleet shows 0% damage taken where I know some ships took hull damage.

I set "bonusChanceForCivilianShips":0, and "bonusChanceForReservedShipsMult":0, but campaign XP still gives my civilian ships traits. Can I disable this part?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Astyanax on January 05, 2020, 05:20:51 PM
Hi Sundog, I'm absolutely loving this gem of a mod. Thanks for sharing it!

One question, though. My support ships (tankers, salvage rigs) tend to get notable reputation changes very easily, even if never deployed in battle. I tend to see a reputation change perhaps every other battle/salvage event. Is this normal?  I'm playing with an Industry-specced captain.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 05, 2020, 06:32:16 PM
The 'no hull tamage taken' bug is still floating around. I've had it happen several times that the whole fleet shows 0% damage taken where I know some ships took hull damage.
Well that's a shame. Thanks for letting me know. Any idea how to reproduce it? How often does it happen?

I set "bonusChanceForCivilianShips":0, and "bonusChanceForReservedShipsMult":0, but campaign XP still gives my civilian ships traits. Can I disable this part?
You'll want to set "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips" to 0 for that. Bonus chances are the chance to get good traits as opposed to bad ones.

Hi Sundog, I'm absolutely loving this gem of a mod. Thanks for sharing it!
Glad you like it!  ;D

One question, though. My support ships (tankers, salvage rigs) tend to get notable reputation changes very easily, even if never deployed in battle. I tend to see a reputation change perhaps every other battle/salvage event. Is this normal?  I'm playing with an Industry-specced captain.
It's normal if you're steadily earning XP outside of battle. Civilian support ships earn new traits based on non-battle XP now.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Schwartz on January 06, 2020, 07:53:06 AM
I'll keep an eye out for which kinds of engagements still cause this.

Oh duh, it says it right there in the config file!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ramdat on January 06, 2020, 12:24:23 PM
In the FAQ it says that mothballing a ship removes the traits. Will putting a ship in colony storage also remove the traits?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: BringerofBabies on January 06, 2020, 12:50:45 PM
In the FAQ it says that mothballing a ship removes the traits. Will putting a ship in colony storage also remove the traits?

Only if it is mothballed before storage.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 06, 2020, 02:59:49 PM
I'll keep an eye out for which kinds of engagements still cause this.
Thanks! In the meantime I'll take a look at the code and see if I can find anything wrong.

In the FAQ it says that mothballing a ship removes the traits. Will putting a ship in colony storage also remove the traits?

Only if it is mothballed before storage.
Yup! Updated the FAQs to clarify this.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: ActuallyUlysses on January 07, 2020, 08:10:26 AM
Hi,
came back to check out your mod few months later and I gotta say - I love it. Previously I had to alter settings to make it work with my tastes, now it works great right out of the box :D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Phoenixheart on January 07, 2020, 03:28:01 PM
Just to clarify, when a mothballed ship loses its traits it ALSO loses it's reputation level, right? So a legendary ship getting mothballed will reset it and have to climb up through the ranks again?

I ask because it makes sense but is not what I originally expected when I read the FAQ, I was thinking that it would remove the traits but keep the level, so you could basically reroll for different traits at the cost of not getting to keep any of the originals, so a few meh traits would be worth keeping if you also had one you really wanted.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 07, 2020, 06:45:12 PM
Hi,
came back to check out your mod few months later and I gotta say - I love it. Previously I had to alter settings to make it work with my tastes, now it works great right out of the box :D
Glad to hear it  ;D

Just to clarify, when a mothballed ship loses its traits it ALSO loses it's reputation level, right? So a legendary ship getting mothballed will reset it and have to climb up through the ranks again?
Yes, that's right.

I ask because it makes sense but is not what I originally expected when I read the FAQ, I was thinking that it would remove the traits but keep the level, so you could basically reroll for different traits at the cost of not getting to keep any of the originals, so a few meh traits would be worth keeping if you also had one you really wanted.
That's a good point. Thanks for pointing it out! I'll update the FAQs to make it clear.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ramdat on January 08, 2020, 03:50:10 PM
Would you consider adding a config option to allow choosing which traits you receive upon level up? So then you could, for example, choose shield-related traits for your shield-tanking ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Phoenixheart on January 08, 2020, 04:23:44 PM
I'm not sure if it's feasable to code, but that's actually an interesting idea, if your ships had a similar level up mechanic to officers, where you're given 2 random trait options and you pick one of them.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 09, 2020, 04:36:37 PM
Well, technically you can choose traits using console commands, but I know that's not what you guys are asking for. I don't have any plans to create a proper system for choosing traits, and that's not likely to ever change. The mechanics, theme, and interface of this mod are all designed around traits being randomized, so changing that would mean changing most of the rest of the mod as well. Also, the next version of starsector will have something very similar to choosable traits in the form of permanent hullmods (http://fractalsoftworks.com/2019/07/08/skills-and-story-points/), so I don't want to create too much overlap.

You guys might want to check out  Extra System Reloaded (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=13089.0), which also provides a system for upgrading ships, but without any RNG.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Panpiper on January 14, 2020, 09:52:39 AM
I've been playing with this mod for at least twelve hours in game. I have fought countless battles. My officers are around level 15 (new game). Not one of them, not a single ship has achieved any sort of trait at all, save a solitary civilian ship getting a loyal crew. (My main character is a non-combat leader, to start anyway, with hired officers flying the ships.)

What do I need to change in the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini to accelerate these bonuses?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on January 14, 2020, 03:34:06 PM
Hey Sundog, some bad news. It seems there's a crash that's been happening with regards to traits being added to module ships - but only under specific circumstances. Namely:

- The ship has clickable (in refit screen) modules.
- The ship was spawned as a starter ship (such as the super-ship start in Nex). Module ships acquired any other way appear to be fine.

To replicate the crash, start a new game with a refittable-module super ship in Nexerelin - Kingdom of Terra works, as does Luddic Church's Cathedral (SWP). Add a trait to the ship with console commands, then click on any module in the refit screen.

There's a record of the testing process here, (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16902.msg277788#msg277788) if any of that info is useful.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 14, 2020, 08:47:41 PM
Not one of them, not a single ship has achieved any sort of trait at all, save a solitary civilian ship getting a loyal crew.
The first few traits should be very easy to get, so it sounds like something is going wrong. By now you've probably fought at least a few battles that would grant enough XP to guarantee new traits. Did you change any settings by any chance? Are you using any mods that modify XP gain in any way?

What do I need to change in the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini to accelerate these bonuses?
Normally you could reduce the "xpToGuaranteeNewTrait" value for each tier, but I suspect that won't work in your case, since you should've gotten new traits with the defaults by now.

Hey Sundog, some bad news. It seems there's a crash that's been happening with regards to traits being added to module ships - but only under specific circumstances.
Hmm... that is bad news. Thanks for letting me know. It's very strange that it only occurs for starter module ships. Hopefully I'll be able to fix this once I figure out what the difference is. Anyway, thanks for the solid repro steps!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Panpiper on January 15, 2020, 03:01:41 AM
Not one of them, not a single ship has achieved any sort of trait at all, save a solitary civilian ship getting a loyal crew.
The first few traits should be very easy to get, so it sounds like something is going wrong. By now you've probably fought at least a few battles that would grant enough XP to guarantee new traits. Did you change any settings by any chance? Are you using any mods that modify XP gain in any way?

As far as I recall, the only changes I made to the ini are the changes you suggested for making the traits just the positive ones. I an not certain I did not change anything else though. I 'was' running a mod to expand the level ceiling. I am going to restart without that and see. I'll also redownload your mod just in case I broke something the first time.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Well, I tested with the "unlimited power" preset and everything still seemed to work fine. I don't think a mod that increases the level ceiling would make a difference unless it changes how xp is earned somehow as well. Not sure what the problem could be.
Have your ships started getting traits since you re-installed the mod?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Coward on January 28, 2020, 02:37:35 PM
Will there be additional traits added in the future? I'd love to see traits that affect weapon flux cost, projectile speed, and fire rate
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 28, 2020, 04:48:03 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum!

The only traits I currently have plans to add are ones that affect ship systems (cooldown, flux cost, or recharge rate - whichever is most applicable). That will have to wait until the next release of Starsector though, as it doesn't fully support what I want to do yet. It might not work out though, as complications with something like that are likely.

I try to avoid adding traits that have too much overlap with each other, so I think +/-fire-rate would be too similar to +/-damage, and +/-flux-cost  might be too similar to +/-flux-dissipation. No traits currently affect projectile speed though, so there will probably be a trait that affects that some day.

I've been considering adding traits that only affect specific weapon types (ammo recharge rate? energy weapon flux cost? beam damage? ballistics projectile speed?), but I'm not sure it's a good idea yet. Missiles already get special treatment, so it only seems fair...

Another idea I liked that someone brought up a while ago is a trait that provides some sort of bonus that increases with the number of d-mods a ship has, but I haven't ironed out the details for making that work well yet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Coward on January 28, 2020, 06:13:53 PM
That sounds really interesting, I look forward to seeing these traits in action! This is one of my favorite mods for Starsector so far, I've been using since I've discovered it and haven't turned it off since.

I kinda feel like fire rate could still be interesting, but I don't know if changes in fire rate change flux costs. Missiles do have the reload modifiers already, and I feel like if fire rate traits also cause average flux costs to increase/decrease, it would more interesting than a simple damage modifier. Then again, I don't know if fire rate or projectile speed would affect beam weapons, so that's something that the damage trait is more useful for. I don't know, I just want to see how fast I can get a Hammerhead with all mortars to fire.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 28, 2020, 08:52:25 PM
This is one of my favorite mods for Starsector so far, I've been using since I've discovered it and haven't turned it off since.
;D

I feel like if fire rate traits also cause average flux costs to increase/decrease, it would more interesting than a simple damage modifier.
Right, the change in flux usage would set a fire-rate trait apart from deadly/harmless, but they'd still be too similar imo. However, if I decide to make weapon type specific traits I think a trait that does +/- fire rate for ballistic weapons could work well. I think the increased flux usage from higher fire rate could lead to some interesting builds and strategies.

I don't know, I just want to see how fast I can get a Hammerhead with all mortars to fire.
Ha! Fair enough  :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zuthen on February 08, 2020, 02:39:42 PM
loving this mod sundog, thank you so much for making it. it works perfectly for me so far and i love it's implementation. also love that i can see at a glance what level my units are at. makes deciding who to bring a much more meaningful task as well. generally i find myself thinking much more about who i want to bring with me in a mission rather than just selecting my most powerful forces. now if i have units already at top rank i generally decide to bring other forces just to level them up more. really i don't think there is anything you could do to make it better. the only thing i could think of is to make even more levels/ranks to further add to it, especially with mods like nex as exp comes very easy in those mods. i would say you could also make the ai use the same system as you instead of them having their whole army change stats instead of single units but then it would be more random and the ai wouldn't have as much of a benefit. thanks again, you might see me in a year or two after this play through. lol
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 08, 2020, 05:29:42 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum and thanks for the kind words and feedback! I'm glad you're enjoying the mod  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Voiddweller on March 02, 2020, 04:02:07 AM
Finally! One of the most awesome additions!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Vind on March 02, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
This mod is awesome. Collecting ships with rare and useful perks is very rewarding and fun - like paragon with bonus shield efficiency or astral with faster strike craft replacement rate etc.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Algester on March 03, 2020, 03:35:02 AM
question about the hull mod pertaining to fuel economy and "enlarged" fuel tanks is it normal that they don't get "loaded" on returning from a save point? IE after loading a game the game still thinks its in vanilla values until you sort your inventory
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 03, 2020, 04:43:39 PM
Hmm... I'm not aware of any issues involving fuel capacities and saving/loading. I just tried giving a fleet of ships the +fuel capacity trait, topping off the fleet's fuel, saving, and reloading, but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Are you using an old version of Fuel siphoning by any chance? At one point it had some hacky code involving fuel stacks.

@Voiddweller & Vind: Glad you guys like it  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on March 04, 2020, 08:07:48 PM
In my never humble opinion, this is the best mod for the game. Adds an entire new mechanic that meshes seamlessly, while also complimenting the designers original intent of making it more viable to replace than to repair ships. Now you have a reason to consider repairing, and i absolutely love it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Voiddweller on March 05, 2020, 09:19:22 PM
I got a question: Do traits stack, or if you got one, say 7% damage increase you'll never get trait of this type again?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 06, 2020, 06:40:07 AM
@Stormy Fairweather:  ;D

@Voiddweller: You can't get traits of the same type, but the effects of two different traits will stack if they affect the same thing. For example, Deadly (increases all damage) will stack with Smooth Focusing Lenses (increases damage and range of beams).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Skullwarrior on March 07, 2020, 06:19:23 AM
This mod is great but I found some bugs, y saw in battle logs that a ship crew get confident but the ship status is not, and y saw a log where the ship was know for be glitchy and now es armored but it doenst remove the glitchy status, it removed another bonus and replaced with armored, that ship was with a bonus and a malus, and in theory it should end with 2 bonus but it just remove a bonus to put another, but battle log said another thing.
Besides that, good mod. Hope you guys fix it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 08, 2020, 09:28:35 AM
Hey, thanks for the feedback! I know there have been bugs like that in the past, but no one else has reported anything like that for the current version yet. Are you using a version older than 1.3.14 by any chance?

Either way, I'll be on the lookout for mismatches between battle reports and reality during my next play-testing session.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on March 08, 2020, 11:35:03 AM
i've notived traits not being removed when supposedly being replaced as well.

edit -although i have noticed negative traits will 'tier-down', when a ship becomes less known for something so that may be intended.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 08, 2020, 01:33:53 PM
It might be intended, yeah. Not sure what you mean about traits being replaced. It's hard to be precise about what exactly is happening with things like this. To clear up any confusion, these are the types of trait changes that are possible:
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Algester on March 14, 2020, 01:54:14 AM
also question if you have the Ample Fuel Tanks trait is it normal that on a loaded save it doesnt get recognized by the game until you fiddle about your inventory?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: EdisonTrent on March 14, 2020, 02:22:32 PM
The Pseudo-randomness of Diablo style loot, but with an ability to be carefully managed by your own performance (or config settings).
Perfect to add to a more in depth playthrough now that I've gotten used to the base game.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 14, 2020, 02:51:11 PM
That's the goal. Hope you like it!  :D

also question if you have the Ample Fuel Tanks trait is it normal that on a loaded save it doesnt get recognized by the game until you fiddle about your inventory?
No, that's not normal, or at least it's not supposed to be. Did you see my previous reply (below)? If you can give me instructions for a way to make this bug happen reliably I'll probably be able to fix it.
Hmm... I'm not aware of any issues involving fuel capacities and saving/loading. I just tried giving a fleet of ships the +fuel capacity trait, topping off the fleet's fuel, saving, and reloading, but I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Are you using an old version of Fuel siphoning by any chance? At one point it had some hacky code involving fuel stacks.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Algester on March 14, 2020, 11:29:09 PM
nope I dont have fuel siphoning
https://pastebin.com/rF0YEH4i
these are the mods that I have I'll try to fanagle more info on why it happens
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 16, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
Ok, thank you!

@All: Can I get opinions on whether or not this an improvement over the current icon?
(https://i.imgur.com/4buxjes.png)
I like the laurels, but I'm not a fan of how they're cropped.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Algester on March 17, 2020, 04:30:44 AM
ok once I have expanded Fuel tanks into my ships and then save and quit the game
(making sure I'm loaded on the max capacity fuel) and then relaunch the game and load my savefile (via continue) the loaded doesnt "update" to the previous max capacity fuel IE the game hasnt thought that there's a hullmod that gives me more fuel until I either play with my inventory (pressing sort) and or reload the save via quick load or just load the current save this might be a vanilla issue and not starship legends per-se
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Lycaeon on March 17, 2020, 01:01:24 PM
I have the exact same issue with fuel tanks not updating until inventory play when first loading in. I also suspect it's a problem with the game itself delaying updating the hullmods after first loading in.

My modlist for reference:

Nexerelin
Luddic Enhancement Mod
Ship/Weapon Pack
Starship Legends
Dassault-Mikoyan Engineering
Diable Avionics
Interstellar Imperium
Mayasuran Navy
Neutrino Corp
Tiandong Heavy Industries
GraphicsLib
LazyLib
MagicLib
Interesting Portraits Pack
Portrait Pack by HELMUT
Audio Plus
Combat Chatter

Additionally, I'm currently using only vanilla ships and hullmods in my fleet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 17, 2020, 05:27:52 PM
Thanks guys! With the help of that information I managed to fix the bug  :)

relaunch the game and load my savefile
This was the clue I needed. The game was trying to apply the reputation hullmod before starship legends had a chance to load all of the data it needed, so I just forced an update once everything was loaded. The fix will be part of the next update (which will hopefully be soon). Thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on March 18, 2020, 12:08:55 PM
@All: Can I get opinions on whether or not this an improvement over the current icon?
(https://i.imgur.com/4buxjes.png)
I like the laurels, but I'm not a fan of how they're cropped.
Personally, I don't mind the cropping there; I'd say it's an improvement.  Though I'd assume that the laurels would only appear for high fame levels?  Or maybe change color or something?  (Copper/silver/gold perhaps?)

Also: I am very much a fan of the storyteller bar event.  That alone makes the Sector feel notably more alive than normal.  Though it does feel a bit odd that almost every derelict has the same traits - reduced effect of d-mods and increased recovery chance.  (Okay, so the increased recovery chance makes sense.  Hm.  Question: will reduced d-mod effect go away or at least start to shift down in priority if I do a full recovery on the ship?)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 18, 2020, 05:40:45 PM
Thanks for the feedback on the icon! The current plan is to use the same laurels for all tiers, like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/hKWaRs2.png)
I hadn't considered using different colors. One of my reasons for wanting to change the icons was to increase the visual consistency between tiers, but I do think it could be cool to color code them. I'd probably want to keep the insignia the same color as the laurels for each tier though. Maybe bronze, dark silver, gold, and pale silver? I'll have to experiment.

Also: I am very much a fan of the storyteller bar event.  That alone makes the Sector feel notably more alive than normal.  Though it does feel a bit odd that almost every derelict has the same traits - reduced effect of d-mods and increased recovery chance.  (Okay, so the increased recovery chance makes sense. 
Glad you like the event! I think I'll reduce the likelihood of the dmod effect traits from 3 to 2 times as common as normal. If you like, you can edit the chance of each trait in /data/config/starship_legends/factionConfigurations.json

Hm.  Question: will reduced d-mod effect go away or at least start to shift down in priority if I do a full recovery on the ship?)
Not currently, but it's on my list of things to do. I think I'll try to squeeze it into the next update.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on March 19, 2020, 12:33:38 PM
Ah, yeah, four levels.  Iron-copper-silver-gold, maybe?  Dark grey with a hint of red, orangeish, blue-white, pale yellow?

Another question on the storyteller event: does it take distance into account when setting the time limit on time-limited derelicts?  I've had at least one go by that ended up as "it's somewhere in this constellation" but I'd have had only a few days to search by the time I could get over there.  (Fortunately, that wasn't one I'd paid for, so I just shrugged and let it be.)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 19, 2020, 09:36:29 PM
The time limit is always the same. The trick to recovering a time-limited derelict with an unknown location is to go to the constellation and try to intercept the rival recovery fleet so you can follow it (ymmv). Also, the derelict won't just disappear if the timer runs out. It won't be gone for good until the rival recovery fleet brings it back to its originating market and despawns.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on March 20, 2020, 12:23:56 PM
Interesting - I've only seen the two time-limited it's-somewhere-in-this-constellation type listings, and one of them I ignored as being out of range, while the other I spent some time searching, then abandoned the search in favor of getting back home with a good distress-call-generated ghost ship before someone's invasion fleet arrived.

I'll keep the follow-the-recovery-fleet trick in mind for future, though; I wasn't even aware there specifically was a recovery fleet, though that does make more sense than the thing just fading out or having its orbit decay after a certain time.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14; Lasting damage effects
Post by: Holmar on April 16, 2020, 01:22:04 AM
Hi Sundog,
first: Thanks for your work!

The reduction of lasting damage due to fame is not cumulative with the trait earned by safety procedures on level 3 which reduces negative effects of d-mods by 50%.
That means the reduction of lasting damage due to fame gets pretty much useless after gaining some levels. I thnk it should be connected multiplicative so you wuld get around 66% reduction ( 50% + 50%*33%).
What do you think?

Best regards
Holmar
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: mathyou on April 16, 2020, 09:51:47 AM
Hi Sundog, thanks for the mod! I love it!

I have a couple suggestions/feature requests: I'm using shield bypass on my flagship. I think I've been doing that since I started flying it. It's picked up a couple traits related to shields (stable shields and powerful shields) that don't really make sense.

I see that isTraitRelevantForShip checks the trait type against the hull specs (e.g. shield traits only for hulls that have shields) and considers built-in hull mods. Do you think it would be practical to consider other hull mods? At least in vanilla, I don't think there are too many that would affect traits (shield bypass, makeshift shield generator, and converted hanger) in vanilla. What do you think about considering those as well? I realize that would increase complexity in that you'd probably want to check at the end of each battle (or each refit? I'd lean battle to make it harder to accidentally lose a trait while experimenting in the ship designer) to see if the existing traits make sense anymore.

I know I can adjust traits using console commands if this really starts to bug me. I find the available commands a little confusing, though. It seems like the only way for me to remove those two traits and replace them with others (or allow others to be chosen) is to reset the ship's reputation and manually add all its traits back in order. Is that right? While looking for the code for isTraitRelevantForShip, I noticed that there's a RemoveTrait command slated for version 1.4.  Any ETA on it?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DatonKallandor on April 16, 2020, 05:17:15 PM
Shield Bypass is not vanilla.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: mathyou on April 16, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
Shield Bypass is not vanilla.

Touche! I guess it's been too long since I disabled SWP.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 16, 2020, 07:25:25 PM
Hey, thanks for the feedback, guys!

The reduction of lasting damage due to fame is not cumulative with the trait earned by safety procedures on level 3 which reduces negative effects of d-mods by 50%.
That means the reduction of lasting damage due to fame gets pretty much useless after gaining some levels. I thnk it should be connected multiplicative so you wuld get around 66% reduction ( 50% + 50%*33%).
What do you think?
I just tested, and it looks like it already works that way. Can you point me to a specific case in which it doesn't? There might be a bug somewhere.

I see that isTraitRelevantForShip checks the trait type against the hull specs (e.g. shield traits only for hulls that have shields) and considers built-in hull mods. Do you think it would be practical to consider other hull mods? At least in vanilla, I don't think there are too many that would affect traits (shield bypass, makeshift shield generator, and converted hanger) in vanilla. What do you think about considering those as well?
Well, you're well informed, aren't you  :P
I've thought about it in the past, but I've always chosen not to consider temporary hullmods when choosing traits because traits are essentially permanent in most cases. However, 1.4 will include a system for gradually removing dmod related traits from restored ships, which could easily be applied to any irrelevant traits. So, yeah, I'll probably end up doing that at some point, it's just a matter of figuring out how to do it right. Your example with shield bypass (vanilla or not) is definitely a problem I'd want to address.

It seems like the only way for me to remove those two traits and replace them with others (or allow others to be chosen) is to reset the ship's reputation and manually add all its traits back in order. Is that right?
Yes, that's right.

While looking for the code for isTraitRelevantForShip, I noticed that there's a RemoveTrait command slated for version 1.4.  Any ETA on it?
Not sure. I wanted to cram a few more things in before releasing, but I'm starting to think I should remove a few incomplete additions and release what's done so far. If you PM me on Discord and promise to report any bugs you find I'll send you the dev build.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DifficultyTweak on April 17, 2020, 04:07:12 PM
Might I suggest implementing some sort of token system for ship traits?
Basically, the idea is that if you get a trait you dont want on a ship (ie, missile traits on a SO hammerhead or shield traits on a ship with bad shield stats) you could enter a dialogue menu or something and replace that trait you dont want with a negative trait, but it gives you a universal token that you can use to spend on traits that you *do* want. These bought traits would also be permanently on the ship so the game doesn't just randomly take away something you grinded for.
Thoughts on this?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on April 17, 2020, 10:20:33 PM
Even just something that let you trade out X trait for a random negative trait would be a powerful optimization tool.  No need for any upside to it, since negative traits will go back positive over time (assuming your ship has sufficient combat rating).  (In fact, I'd argue that doing this should be something that comes with a significant cost; for right now, maybe credits equal to purchase price of the ship; for next patch, a story point.)

...On the other hand, having such an ability available would mean less incentive to save-scum battle results for more useful traits, so I think it's probably a good idea.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 19, 2020, 10:47:03 AM
The primary goal of this mod is to make individual ships feel unique, so I've never been a fan of allowing traits to be chosen, as that would make them functionally equivalent to hull mods. If I added anything like that, it would probably just be a bar event where you meet someone (a marketing expert?) who can simply remove a chosen trait from one of your ships.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.3.14 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 29, 2020, 04:37:51 PM
Starship Legends 1.4.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Quote
Added 10 new traits:
   - Rugged/Fractured - Adjusts hull integrity based on the number of dmods
   - Rapid/Sluggish Ammo Feeders - Adjusts rate of fire of ballistic weapons
   - Efficient/Inefficient Flux Adapters - Adjusts flux usage of energy weapons
   - Vigilant/Oblivious PD Gunners - Adjusts range of point defense weapons
   - Skilled/Inept PD Gunners - Adjusts damage dealt to fighters and missiles
Added the ability to pay story tellers for information about any other fleet that's trying to recover a famous derelict
Added the possibility for remnant fleets to use famous derelicts as bait (especially old, powerful derelicts)
   - Added setting "famousDerelictMayBeGuardedByRemnantFleet" for toggling this feature
   - By default, this setting is only enabled if Ruthless Sector is also enabled
Added RemoveTraits console command
Fixed reputations not being handled correctly for stock variants of multi-module ships, which could result in a crash in rare cases at the beginning of a new game
Fixed the possibility for ships to earn loyalty related traits even if the loyalty system was disabled
Fixed recovered ships not always counting as sustaining 100% damage in some cases (such as after recovering an Excelsior)
Fixed the possibility for famous derelicts to end up in constellations with only one system, which aren't named on the map
Fixed a few typos in procedurally generated text
Fixed the possibility for mismatches between reported trait changes and actual changes in rare cases
Fixed a the top header of battle reports being clipped if no trait or reputation changes were included in the report
Fixed fleet fuel and cargo capacity traits not being applied immediately after loading saves in some cases
Fixed ships deployed only for autoresolve pursuits getting trait and rating adjustments
Changed: Enemy NPC fleets now have about half the traits, but the effects of their traits are much greater
Changed the formula for determining the chance for each ship to earn a new trait after battle
   - The base chance for new traits is now much lower, but it is increased for...
      - Ships that deal and/or sustain a lot of hull damage
      - Ships with high-level captains
      - Ships that are generally more powerful (based on FP)
   - The settings related to trait chances have been completely reworked to support these changes
Changed reputation hullmod icons
Changed: Traits related to d-mods (lasting damage) are now gradually removed if the ship has no d-mods
Changed: Ships with only hardpoint slots can no longer get traits related to weapon rotation speed
Changed: Battle reports now have the "Reports" tag instead of the "Fleet log" tag
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Schwartz on April 29, 2020, 06:49:12 PM
I used the RemoveTraits command, assuming it would erase all SL info from a single ship. But it only erased the traits and left me with this tooltip.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 29, 2020, 10:56:04 PM
Thanks for letting me know! I'll patch that soon. You can use ClearRep to remove the entire reputation from a ship (which will remove the broken reputation hullmod in this case).
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Schwartz on April 30, 2020, 12:17:08 AM
Another thing.. I set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true, and even though a bad trait gets demoted properly, it seems once it's at the lowest point, it won't get removed and the ship will not get a positive trait to replace it with either, no matter how many tough battles I win. Is this intended?

By the way, it's a really nice touch that positive d-mod traits like "Battle Scarred" still get phased out if the ship does well.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Faeren on April 30, 2020, 03:44:53 AM
I'm enjoying this overall but the one frustrating part is that logistical ships just seem to constantly get slapped with negative traits out of the blue. They'll occasionally get a good one if I do a massive trade dump on a colony with a sabotaged spaceport or something, but if I'm just doing bounties or exploring there is seemingly no way to prevent this from happening.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 30, 2020, 10:52:35 AM
Edit: Also, what do you guys think of the way fleet traits work now? Specifically, I'm concerned that a lot of people might dislike how extreme the effects are, so I might tune them down a bit. Thoughts?

I set "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance":true, and even though a bad trait gets demoted properly, it seems once it's at the lowest point, it won't get removed and the ship will not get a positive trait to replace it with either, no matter how many tough battles I win. Is this intended?
No, traits should be being removed. I took a look through the code and identified some cases when this could happen. Just to confirm that we're looking at the same problem, could you tell me the typical order of good/bad traits for the problematic ships (e.g. good good good bad)?

By the way, it's a really nice touch that positive d-mod traits like "Battle Scarred" still get phased out if the ship does well.
Such traits actually get phased out if the ship no longer has any d-mods, but yeah, I'm happy about it too  :)

I'm enjoying this overall but the one frustrating part is that logistical ships just seem to constantly get slapped with negative traits out of the blue. They'll occasionally get a good one if I do a massive trade dump on a colony with a sabotaged spaceport or something, but if I'm just doing bounties or exploring there is seemingly no way to prevent this from happening.
The likelihood of getting new traits for civilian ships is based on XP earned outside of battle, but whether or not those traits are good or bad is simply based on a 50% chance. You can adjust this likelihood by changing "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" in STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini, which is found in the root folder of the mod.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Schwartz on May 01, 2020, 12:34:28 AM
Yes, it's a case where I have a legendary ship with all-positive traits, and the last negative trait is all the way at the bottom. It was moved down there pretty quickly, i.e. every Remnant combat I won had difficult odds and resulted in a positive trait change. Until the trait was all the way at the bottom and nothing moved anymore.

By the way, with the same ship, the 'Battle Scarred' trait only appears to get phased out when I keep it in reserve and a '=' symbol appears in the fleet log. (https://i.imgur.com/UUJdGPg.png) When the ship actually fights, it does not move the trait.

And then (https://i.imgur.com/HKZ6Bm8.png) this happened. (https://i.imgur.com/WN8HZgG.png)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Argonaut on May 01, 2020, 06:10:58 AM
I play on default. I love the traits. I think their effects are adequate, since on default i get a good mix of positive-negative ones. Like someone said, my utility ships get slapped with negative traits despite never facing battle up to legendary tier. It's funny, but i'm not sure intended.

Speaking of traits, i actually think their effects could be even stronger. It currently makes only for minor differences in how i play. The enemy pirate fleet has 20% more overload time? Sure, i'm going to pick my sabot platforms, but it doesn't make that much difference. Personally, i would love even crazier traits tied to unique "feats" or achievements in battle. For example destroying multiple enemy ships solo after your fleet has been destroyed, or using a specific ship for many years in a row without ever storing it... or for some bar event ships to have unique traits that cannot be obtained in other ways, to make them more desirable.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: FAX on May 01, 2020, 08:11:01 PM
Well, less traits make the pre-battle analyze easier, which is very good. But one small question is that, quantitative changes are high enough lead to some qualitative changes( I have saw a fleet lost half of it peak time), decline 30-40% both buff and debuff level would be better IMO :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 03, 2020, 12:48:02 PM
Starship Legends 1.4.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Quote
Fixed RemoveTraits console command not updating reputation hullmods, which could lead to a (harmless) error message in the hullmod description
Fixed traits not being removed from reputations when they should in some cases
Fixed trait changes still being possible in some cases for ships that are only deployed for autoresolve pursuit
Fixed the possibility for irrelevant traits to be chosen to become more prominent
Fixed an issue that could prevent irrelevant traits from becoming less prominent for deployed ships in some cases
Changed: Reduced chance of spontaneous malfunctions from the Cursed trait by half


Thanks for the feedback everyone! For now I'll keep the defaults for fleet traits as they are, but I'm still seriously considering reducing the effects, so further input on this topic is certainly welcome!

@Schwartz: Each of the issues you reported should be fixed in this patch. Please let me know if you find out otherwise. Thanks for the reports!

Like someone said, my utility ships get slapped with negative traits despite never facing battle up to legendary tier.
Up to legendary tier? With default settings it should be rare to have famous civilian ships, let alone legendary ones. Are you using any mod that frequently awards XP?

Personally, i would love even crazier traits tied to unique "feats" or achievements in battle. For example destroying multiple enemy ships solo after your fleet has been destroyed, or using a specific ship for many years in a row without ever storing it... or for some bar event ships to have unique traits that cannot be obtained in other ways, to make them more desirable.
Yeah, I think achievement-based traits would be really cool too, but it would take a very long time to make it work well, and unfortunately I don't think I'll ever be able to spare the time.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Argonaut on May 04, 2020, 10:09:05 AM
Quote
Up to legendary tier? With default settings it should be rare to have famous civilian ships, let alone legendary ones. Are you using any mod that frequently awards XP?

I don't have an XP specific mod, but i have Nex and Vayra's sector, a bunch of faction mods and my xpGainMult is set to 0.05. i'm currently sitting on 3 legendary phaetons and a few freighters in my fleet. My long-term combat ships are around "well-known" and "famous" and it seems to me the changes happen correctly for these.

Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 04, 2020, 10:56:38 AM
xpGainMult is set to 0.05
Ah, that's the clue I needed. By default starship legends compensates for changes made by xpGainMult so that people won't inadvertently change the rate of gaining new traits by editing it. Unbeknownst to me, however, xpGainMult only seems to apply to XP from combat. So in order to determine trait chances for civilian ships, the mod is dividing peacefully earned XP by 0.05 when it was never multiplied by 0.05 in the first place. This will be fixed in the next release. For now, you can change the value of "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips" in the starship legends options file in order to reduce the chance of new traits to your liking. Sorry about the trouble, and thanks for your help in figuring this out!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Jethro777 on May 10, 2020, 10:20:42 PM
Just wanted to say how very much I love this Mod.
Finally, a reason to care about your ships.  Amazing.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 11, 2020, 02:57:32 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Jethro777 on May 14, 2020, 09:32:55 PM
May I ask a stupid question?
I have some mods that are adding experience points for things - like mining. 
As a result, my civilian ships level up right away - and usually the traits are terrible. 
How can I adjust the settings to fix this? 
I have been playing with the settings but am not having much luck.

https://imgur.com/a/vNFgclo
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2020, 07:00:24 PM
That's a lot of civilian traits all at once... are you running with a reduced xpGainMult by any chance? Sounds like you might be having the same issue described here: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.msg288684#msg288684

Anyway, the setting you'll need to adjust is "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips"
Sorry for the trouble!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Jethro777 on May 17, 2020, 01:20:40 AM
No trouble, I really appreciate your work on this mod.
Solution worked for me!  Everything is working very nice now!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 17, 2020, 07:36:20 AM
Glad it worked! Did you have xpGainMult adjusted?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Jethro777 on May 18, 2020, 07:46:04 PM
I am still playing with it a little - I have a mod that allows mining, and that gives XP, so sometimes it goes nuts when I get a new ship and do mining.  Otherwise, it works.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wildan on June 01, 2020, 09:44:50 AM
Do I understand this correctly: Unless I edit in the factions from the mods I use, their ships won't be affected by the reputation system?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 01, 2020, 09:51:33 AM
No, they'll still have reputations based on the default pool of traits. The integration options are there for faction mod authors who want to customize the type of reputations that fleets in their faction get.

Fleets from modded factions that haven't integrated with starship legends get a balanced set of randomized traits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: ASSIMKO on June 04, 2020, 05:50:47 AM
Whenever I start the game I receive the message that an error has occurred and that I should notify the creator of the mod. How to solve this?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 04, 2020, 03:51:17 PM
It looks like you replaced the default settings file with an old customized one from before 1.4.0, when I changed some things up. You'll probably want to re-edit the settings file, starting from the default. Sorry for the trouble!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: n1Z0 on June 21, 2020, 12:54:56 PM
What should we change the 'traitChanceMultForCivilianShips' value to? (to stem the torrent of bad traits)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 22, 2020, 09:06:54 AM
Set it to 0 to completely prevent civilian ships from getting new traits. Use 0.1 to reduce the chance of new traits to 10%.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: chotke on June 26, 2020, 11:22:15 AM
Why i got negative bonus?  :(
(http://imgur.com/nzgPWTh)
https://imgur.com/nzgPWTh
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 26, 2020, 03:43:50 PM
Looks like your ship's reputation is probably just adjusting to match its combat rating, which can seem a bit random when a ship only has a few traits.

Combat rating determines how many of a ship's traits are good.
Traits will gradually shift to have a percentage of good traits equal to the current rating of the ship.
If a ship has a rating of 70% for a long time, it will eventually end up with about 70% good traits and 30% bad traits.

Additionally, if a ship's combat rating increases by 1% or more during a battle, it is guaranteed not to receive any negative traits. Likewise, if its rating decreases by 1% or more it can't get a good trait after the battle. If the rating doesn't change much, as is the case for your ship, then the traits will be adjusted to match the combat rating.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: yourleader on July 05, 2020, 02:40:33 AM
> Being hostile with Hegemony
> Order an invasion to take control one of their planets
> When waiting for preparation, adventuring around
> [REDACTED]
> Ended with impressive victory
> Hegemony relationship +5 become not hostile anymore
> Invasion canceled, because they are not hostile anymore
> No War refund

I wasted millions for war, just to gain 5 point of relationship LOL

The relationship change sometimes create weird events
> Hegemony send AI inspection fleet.
> They are already hostile, so the colony order itself to resist.
> Adventuring around because i bet they wont even chip colony defense.
> [REDACTED] happen when they are close to my system
> impressive victory, relationship +5, Hegemony not hostile anymore
> the resist order auto canceled itself and change to comply.
> space police steal 5 Alpha cores and go
> i rush back to my colony, try to track them down, but they are already gone
MAXIMUM RAGE

Seriously, can we exclude relationship change when:
- There is an invasion from us to them and from them to us going on
- AI inspection
- Expedition

That will be nice
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Algester on July 06, 2020, 03:35:38 AM
> Being hostile with Hegemony
> Order an invasion to take control one of their planets
> When waiting for preparation, adventuring around
> [REDACTED]
> Ended with impressive victory
> Hegemony relationship +5 become not hostile anymore
> Invasion canceled, because they are not hostile anymore
> No War refund

I wasted millions for war, just to gain 5 point of relationship LOL

The relationship change sometimes create weird events
> Hegemony send AI inspection fleet.
> They are already hostile, so the colony order itself to resist.
> Adventuring around because i bet they wont even chip colony defense.
> [REDACTED] happen when they are close to my system
> impressive victory, relationship +5, Hegemony not hostile anymore
> the resist order auto canceled itself and change to comply.
> space police steal 5 Alpha cores and go
> i rush back to my colony, try to track them down, but they are already gone
MAXIMUM RAGE

Seriously, can we exclude relationship change when:
- There is an invasion from us to them and from them to us going on
- AI inspection
- Expedition

That will be nice
this seems to be a nexerelin thing rather than starship legends...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: yourleader on July 06, 2020, 06:24:52 AM
Not really. nexerelin handle reputation reaction base from reputation change. Starship legend interference the reputation through impressive victory bonus, causing this to happen.
There can be two way i can think of as a work around
- Impressive victory bonus wont apply on faction that is hostile or vengeful to you. ( i mean it will cause jealously and grief more than respect at this condition)

Or

- Impressive victory bonus wont apply to faction that is attacking or planning to attack your colony (invasion, disruption, AI inspection)

Both of these will solve the problem
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 08, 2020, 11:13:27 PM
The "impressive victory" mechanic isn't from starship legends or nexerelin, it's from ruthless sector.

@yourleader: Thanks for the feedback! Both of those issues could arise from reputation changes occurring for any reason, but I'll admit the randomized nature of impressive victory rep boosts exacerbate problems like that since it means the player can't control rep changes directly.

- Impressive victory bonus wont apply on faction that is hostile or vengeful to you.
This seems sensible and it would solve both problems cleanly, so I'll probably end up going this route.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: yourleader on July 14, 2020, 03:20:22 AM
Can we have extra option that the other fleet consider your fleet's reputation before attacking you?
I mean you have few ships, but they are all legend ships, with all good trait, and very high combat rating. Suddenly a little group of pirate show up, with no  special trait and D-ships, telling you to give up and go to hell. Pirates are ruthless, but in this condition they are complete idiots. The description told you that even planet-bound people know about how powerful is your fleet, yet fools from everywhere still don't know how to stay out of your way.

There should be a feature that other fleets respect your reputation, or even run away when they see you. seeing 3 little pirate ships trying to pick a fight with a Legendary Paragon is quite a pain.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DatonKallandor on July 14, 2020, 04:21:48 AM
That'd be the definition of feature creep. Mechanics like that aren't Starship Legends' job.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: yourleader on July 14, 2020, 05:00:19 AM
That'd be the definition of feature creep. Mechanics like that aren't Starship Legends' job.
Well... i'm not demanding it? it's literally a suggestion. The author can say "no" and so that's it. If the author feels like i'm harassing him then just tell me and i will shut. By the way, is there a mod that have such feature? that's like you said, do something that's not "starship legends' job"?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: truecore on July 14, 2020, 02:08:00 PM
That'd be the definition of feature creep. Mechanics like that aren't Starship Legends' job.
Well... i'm not demanding it? it's literally a suggestion. The author can say "no" and so that's it. If the author feels like i'm harassing him then just tell me and i will shut. By the way, is there a mod that have such feature? that's like you said, do something that's not "starship legends' job"?
Well, to provide a counter-argument, I know many, many, many veterans who get into fights at bars with nobodies. Usually, the nobody is the type of drunk that constantly feels emasculated by someone elses' strength, and feels the need to beat them to prove their own power. Other times, they take issue with the politics that surround the military, and project that onto the veteran. Either way, the fame and power of the veteran become the target of the others animosity.

A pirate might seek to fight someone famous to prove themselves. They may take issue with how the famous person rose to power. They might think that the famous person is just famous because it's a fluke. Or, they might not care about the combat reputation, and just see the wealth and go for that. Fame is no reason at all to dissuade people from coming after you. If anything, fame means even more, and usually stupider, people will try.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 14, 2020, 05:04:45 PM
Can we have extra option that the other fleet consider your fleet's reputation before attacking you?
For the moment, no. I get where you're coming from regarding suicidal pirates and I think something like that could be cool if done right, but there are a few technical limitations preventing something like that from being feasible. The biggest problem is that I would have to override the AI of pretty much every fleet in the game, which would cause all kinds of incompatibility problems with any other mod that also affects fleet AI.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Steer on July 17, 2020, 03:08:43 PM
How do I view what reputations specific ships in my fleet have?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 18, 2020, 05:27:08 PM
Ships with reputations will have a new "hullmod" that shows all the effects of their reputations.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Hamakua on July 19, 2020, 03:18:28 AM
New to modding - but long time starsector player.  Thought I'd share some kudos and observations.  Love the mod. It's likely one of my favorite.
While I sometimes don't like how much the mod punishes taking hull damage -it only really comes about in the early game before you get a pick of your fleet comp so I've since gotten used to it.  The way the mod weighs fights encourages "some" cheese - "bring sacrifical decoys so you can hog all the damage" etc.
Further, I'm not sure if this is the mod or Ruthless - but it does not fairly weigh being out-numbered in the difficulty calculation - I don't know if there is a way to fix that.  I'll get an "easy" rated battle where me and another cruiser have to go up against a dozen frigates and it will say I've got the easy job.  Could also be about the Dmods.  Once again, just an early game issue when you are climbing up through fleet strength.  Once I hit mid game it's no longer an issue.

I don't know if you are in the mood for ideas but reading through the thread made me have a few.
It seems the majority of "issues" mod users run into seem to be with transparency as to why something did or did not happen - I'm not sure if this is possible in the mod - but lets say a player has a 100% difficulty 400% accomplished battle - but no one gets promoted nor do negative buffs get purged or positive buffs applied -  Would it be possible for there to be a little blurb in the battle report where "nothing happens" but "could have happned - just didn't this time"?

Example.  100/400% battle, no hull damage etc. Famous ship with one negative issue - lets say something like limited weapon range.   "The battle went great - but we are still working on those defective targeting systems, a little more time captain"/scottish accent.  or something like that - I don't even know if it would be possible and I do know it would be a significant amount of text/flavor text work if it were - just a thought.  Just something to let users know "the dice rolled - but nothing happened, but something could still happen, the dice are still rolling" etc.

Connected to the above and my general love of the mod - any possibility of a mechanic involving an officer being promoted from within "The crew" of a ship?  Perhaps one that hits famous without have an officer leading them.  I imagine you could have it trigger next time you go to a station and "visit the bar."
"You take the shuttle down to the local bar."
"You notice a particularly jovial group that you recognize from one of your fleet's cruisers, the [name tag Famous (no officer) trigger].   You approach the crew and signal the bar tender you are covering their tab"  (I don't code, obviously).
"A young crewman seems to be the center of attention..."
etc. etc.
Maybe have it so while they are level 1 they have a fiercly loyal crew from the outset?

Just a thought.

Had one question.   Is famous the highest rank?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Shad on July 19, 2020, 05:13:15 AM
OK, I'm not sure that's intended.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 19, 2020, 01:43:07 PM
New to modding - but long time starsector player.  Thought I'd share some kudos and observations.  Love the mod. It's likely one of my favorite.
;D

While I sometimes don't like how much the mod punishes taking hull damage -it only really comes about in the early game before you get a pick of your fleet comp so I've since gotten used to it.  The way the mod weighs fights encourages "some" cheese - "bring sacrifical decoys so you can hog all the damage" etc.
Further, I'm not sure if this is the mod or Ruthless - but it does not fairly weigh being out-numbered in the difficulty calculation - I don't know if there is a way to fix that.  I'll get an "easy" rated battle where me and another cruiser have to go up against a dozen frigates and it will say I've got the easy job.  Could also be about the Dmods.  Once again, just an early game issue when you are climbing up through fleet strength.  Once I hit mid game it's no longer an issue.
Yeah, estimating the difficulty of battles is never something I'll be able to get quite right. There are just too many variables to take into consideration (including variables that can't possibly be quantified, like the player's playstyle), not to mention the problems associated with the deployment cost of ships not matching up with their true power. Unfortunately, the only real way to fix it is to remove it.

It seems the majority of "issues" mod users run into seem to be with transparency as to why something did or did not happen - I'm not sure if this is possible in the mod - but lets say a player has a 100% difficulty 400% accomplished battle - but no one gets promoted nor do negative buffs get purged or positive buffs applied -  Would it be possible for there to be a little blurb in the battle report where "nothing happens" but "could have happned - just didn't this time"?
Yeah, transparency is definitely a part of this mod I need to improve, and I think more messages like that could be a good way to do it. I'll try to keep an eye out for opportunities to insert messages like that cleanly. It's just a matter of balancing thorough feedback with avoiding cluttery or immersion-breaking messages.

any possibility of a mechanic involving an officer being promoted from within "The crew" of a ship?
That could be a cool event. I might add something like that later on, but there are going to be a lot of changes to how officers work in the next version of Starsector, so I'll want to see how all that pans out first.

Had one question.   Is famous the highest rank?
Nope! There's one more reputation tier, but you basically need to get to the point of frequently winning large battles in order for your ships to start earning it.

OK, I'm not sure that's intended.
It's not! Thanks for pointing that out. I'll reduce the effect of that trait. It needs to be toned down a bit anyway, especially for some modded missiles where fire rate matters more than it usually does with vanilla missiles.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Calica on July 20, 2020, 09:36:38 AM
just wanted to add my voice that this is one of my favorite mods. I only added it 2 games ago and i already can't imagine ever playing without it again. Adds soooo much to my playthroughs. Great Work!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 20, 2020, 05:02:27 PM
Thanks! Glad you like it. Welcome to the forum  ;D
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 10, 2020, 12:33:42 PM
Starship Legends 1.4.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Balance adjustments and fixes for rare or minor bugs.
Full patch notes here. (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/wiki/Change-Log)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kaitol on August 12, 2020, 07:10:00 PM
Would it be possible to limit weapon traits gained to types currently equipped on the ship? Asking because I have an all ballistics ship that just got a trait for less flux on energy weapons, and it only has two small omni mounts that I could change over.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 14, 2020, 06:20:34 PM
As a rule I try to determine whether or not traits are relevant to a ship based on permanent characteristics such as weapon mounts or built-in hullmods, otherwise the ships traits could quickly become irrelevant. What ship was this for? That trait is only supposed to apply to ships with plenty of energy weapon compatible slots.

Some older discussion on the topic:
I see that isTraitRelevantForShip checks the trait type against the hull specs (e.g. shield traits only for hulls that have shields) and considers built-in hull mods. Do you think it would be practical to consider other hull mods? At least in vanilla, I don't think there are too many that would affect traits (shield bypass, makeshift shield generator, and converted hanger) in vanilla. What do you think about considering those as well?
Well, you're well informed, aren't you  :P
I've thought about it in the past, but I've always chosen not to consider temporary hullmods when choosing traits because traits are essentially permanent in most cases. However, 1.4 will include a system for gradually removing dmod related traits from restored ships, which could easily be applied to any irrelevant traits. So, yeah, I'll probably end up doing that at some point, it's just a matter of figuring out how to do it right. Your example with shield bypass (vanilla or not) is definitely a problem I'd want to address.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kelenius on August 16, 2020, 03:47:32 AM
As a rule I try to determine whether or not traits are relevant to a ship based on permanent characteristics such as weapon mounts or built-in hullmods, otherwise the ships traits could quickly become irrelevant. What ship was this for? That trait is only supposed to apply to ships with plenty of energy weapon compatible slots.

Some older discussion on the topic:
I see that isTraitRelevantForShip checks the trait type against the hull specs (e.g. shield traits only for hulls that have shields) and considers built-in hull mods. Do you think it would be practical to consider other hull mods? At least in vanilla, I don't think there are too many that would affect traits (shield bypass, makeshift shield generator, and converted hanger) in vanilla. What do you think about considering those as well?
Well, you're well informed, aren't you  :P
I've thought about it in the past, but I've always chosen not to consider temporary hullmods when choosing traits because traits are essentially permanent in most cases. However, 1.4 will include a system for gradually removing dmod related traits from restored ships, which could easily be applied to any irrelevant traits. So, yeah, I'll probably end up doing that at some point, it's just a matter of figuring out how to do it right. Your example with shield bypass (vanilla or not) is definitely a problem I'd want to address.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the ships to become known for something they are actually doing rather than what they are capable of doing though? If you have a ship that can fit a lot of energy weapons, but doesn't have any fitted (I imagine hybrid slots could have this issue), then becoming well-known for having great energy weapons seems weird.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 16, 2020, 08:41:12 AM
I agree that it would make more sense in terms of realism, but not for gameplay, which I consider to be far more important. The main goal of this mod is to add variety to the game and make ships feel unique. If ship reputations were based on their variants then two ships with the same variant would end up with very similar reputations. In my opinion, the way this mod incentivises adapting your ships' loadouts to fit randomized reputations is one of it's strengths.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Hemlock on August 18, 2020, 03:37:19 AM
Excellent mod, I've really enjoyed the subtle variety it adds. I've been playing it with Ruthless Sector enabled so my feedback is largely ruthless legends oriented. Overall 9/10 as a solid mod for my 'always download' list.

In terms of feedback, I would definitely agree with some of the comments on difficulty calculation being a weakness. On the player side, say you're level 30 and are largely specced into exploration / salvage / colony traits the added multiplier to your fleet calculation doesn't work well. You could have more hull-mods unlocked, but ultimately that doesn't put you above the ai, just brings you into line. Similarly if you go down the combat line, you are improving your own ship, but only your own ship. I ultimately wound up toning the player level multiplier down to something like 0.004 instead of 0.01. If you're able, it might be better to tie the fleet multipliers for the player character directly to specific skills.

As well, I think in addition to total supply as the base factor of difficulty you could consider things like raw numbers of ships, total hull value, total flux capacity of ships, total flux dissipation of ships, total number of weapons, and damage / flux output of weapons. These might let you make a more balanced difficulty calculation for the ruthless legends variant if they are something you can access.

On the ship performance side, I found that while the heavy punishment for hull damage made sense, having to do 5.2 (base) or 8 (ruthless) times as much damage to make up for each point of damage you took seemed unreasonable. The support multiplier obviously helped with that, but I wound up tuning my individual ship damage modifier to 0.375 so to make up for ruthless legend damage I only had to deal around 2-4 times as much hull damage depending on the overall battle, which I felt was more reasonable. Like on the one hand it is bad to take 90% damage, but if you're taking out two to three ships of your size in return for that, I can't see how that isn't 'good'. That said, I think my playstyle is less meta than other players - I like a big line of ships pounding away at the enemy, trading shot for shot which naturally leads to fairly high damage taken.

If its feasible, I think for ship performance you could also consider looking at things like missile hit %, amount of hard flux inflicted, number of ships overloaded, armor stripped, pd performance, and the like.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 20, 2020, 04:16:09 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum and thanks for the detailed feedback! I'll take it into consideration for the next major update, although I can't guarantee the changes you want, of course. However, the way player character skills affect ruthless sector's difficulty rating will certainly need to be updated to fit with the skill tree changes in the next version of Starsector.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Worachot on August 27, 2020, 09:07:54 AM
can negative traits get replaced with positive traits?

and also, i cant find in the settings ini where i can increase the amount or traits the ship can have for ea fame level.
is it not possible to change it anymore?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on August 27, 2020, 12:34:37 PM
A couple of small balance suggestions:

The reduced flux cost for energy weapons trait is, I think, over-tuned for high-tech ships (but about right for mid-tech ships, or for modded ships that use hybrid slots.)  I'd suggest looking at the ship's largest (non-missile) slots for determining the value of it; if any of those can mount ballistic weapons, leave it at the current value; if none of them can, cut it by 20 to 25%.

By contrast, the reduced flux cost for shields trait is seriously under-tuned, even for the ships with the most expensive shields.  I haven't run the math for what would be a good value here, but it might be useful to consider scaling it so it grants what's effectively a flat cost discount based on trait level and ship size, rather than a percentage.

And, lastly, as it is right now, Dutiful Crew is a trait that I never want; I tend to assign an officer to a ship and then leave them there, so getting to the highest loyalty level a bit faster is largely a non-issue.  I'm not sure if it's reasonably doable, but I'd suggest adding an officer XP bonus to this trait - that way it gives you an incentive to cycle in officers that aren't yet max level.  It'd still eventually fall off to uselessness, but it'd take longer to get there... and in the next version of Starsector it'd become a valuable trait for the player ship just to get access to story points a bit more quickly.
(Edit: Alternatively, allow Dutiful Crew to be flagged as an irrelevant trait to be demoted and eventually removed if the current officer has max loyalty?)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 31, 2020, 11:24:20 AM
Hey guys, sorry for the late reply. Was afk for a few days.

can negative traits get replaced with positive traits?
Yup, although not directly. If a ship performs well enough it will gradually lose bad traits and earn new good ones.

and also, i cant find in the settings ini where i can increase the amount or traits the ship can have for ea fame level.
is it not possible to change it anymore?
Should still be the same as always "traitsPerTier"


The reduced flux cost for energy weapons trait is, I think, over-tuned for high-tech ships (but about right for mid-tech ships, or for modded ships that use hybrid slots.)  I'd suggest looking at the ship's largest (non-missile) slots for determining the value of it; if any of those can mount ballistic weapons, leave it at the current value; if none of them can, cut it by 20 to 25%.
Yeah, reduced energy weapon flux usage is definitely a top-tier trait for most high-tech ships. Unfortunately, fine tuning it is difficult because it has an effect multiplier of 2, so I can only cut it in half without resorting to displaying decimals (which I try very hard to avoid). I'd prefer to avoid trait effects changing based on ship characteristics as well. I agree that the balance situation for the trait isn't ideal, but I'm not sure there's a good way to fix it.

By contrast, the reduced flux cost for shields trait is seriously under-tuned, even for the ships with the most expensive shields.  I haven't run the math for what would be a good value here, but it might be useful to consider scaling it so it grants what's effectively a flat cost discount based on trait level and ship size, rather than a percentage.
Hmm... yeah, I guess it does have a very weak effect. To keep things simple I think I'll just double it, making the max effect +/-40% shield upkeep for player ships and +/-96% for enemy fleets. I worry that making it a flat effect could lead to some pretty lopsided balance situations, particularly with some modded ships.

And, lastly, as it is right now, Dutiful Crew is a trait that I never want; I tend to assign an officer to a ship and then leave them there, so getting to the highest loyalty level a bit faster is largely a non-issue.  I'm not sure if it's reasonably doable, but I'd suggest adding an officer XP bonus to this trait - that way it gives you an incentive to cycle in officers that aren't yet max level.  It'd still eventually fall off to uselessness, but it'd take longer to get there... and in the next version of Starsector it'd become a valuable trait for the player ship just to get access to story points a bit more quickly.
(Edit: Alternatively, allow Dutiful Crew to be flagged as an irrelevant trait to be demoted and eventually removed if the current officer has max loyalty?)
I really like the idea of bonus officer XP for this trait. I'll look into how feasible that would be. I think the biggest problem isn't so much the trait itself, but the difficulty of balancing loyalty changes. Ideally (imo anyway) crews should only rarely be fiercely loyal to their officers, instead fluctuating somewhere close to indifference. In that case dutiful crews would basically provide a permanent bonus by allowing officers to maintain higher loyalty. If it's only a matter of time before crews reach max loyalty and never diminish, then yeah, the loyalty traits are all but pointless. Unfortunately, finding that loyalty fluctuation equilibrium is all but impossible since it depends so much on player skill and playstyle, not to mention the fact that many people don't ever want loyalties to ever reduce... I'm rambling. Anyway, as a band-aid fix I'd suggest either adjusting the battle rating settings to make it tougher to maintain good ratings or preventing new loyalty traits by setting the base chance to 0 in traits.csv (row:loyalty, column:chance). I'll give some more thought to how to improve the loyalty adjustment system. I might just end up adjusting the numbers to make it more common to lose loyalty and rarer to gain it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on August 31, 2020, 11:46:32 AM
Hm, that loyalty thing might be an artifact of my playstyle, then?  I tend to run with a relatively small number of very-carefully-tuned variants, don't use Ruthless Sector, and I also am generally willing to save-scum some in order to figure out which ships I want to deploy.  As a result, it's been my general experience that a ship's combat rating will slowly trend upwards until it hits 100% and then stay there.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 31, 2020, 01:14:37 PM
Likely, yeah. I suspect that you're also quite a bit better at the game than most people, due to your veterancy and tendency to be correct about math. Still, I think a lot of people end up in the same situation with max-loyalty officers and pointless loyalty traits, and I think it's important that the mod works well in that case, too, without the need to muck about in config files.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: mkire on October 28, 2020, 09:05:01 PM
just encountered a error, have no idea what it means.

Spoiler
9905589 [Thread-4] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.Util.removeRepHullmodFromVariant(Util.java:232)
    starship_legends.Util.removeRepHullmodFromVariant(Util.java:241)
    starship_legends.RepRecord.updateRepHullMod(RepRecord.java:84)
    starship_legends.RepRecord.applyToShip(RepRecord.java:469)
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.regen(FamousShipBarEvent.java:540)
    starship_legends.events.FamousShipBarEvent.addPromptAndOption(FamousShipBarEvent.java:562)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.showOptions(BarCMD.java:113)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.missions.BarCMD.execute(BarCMD.java:85)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.super.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.ooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:98)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:47)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:53)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:176)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:208)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.?00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newnew.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.super.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.Objectsuper.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 28, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
Thanks for the report! I'm surprised it's possible for that kind of crash to occur. Not sure what circumstances could lead to that. Regardless, I'll make sure to fix this up soon. Sorry for the trouble!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: mkire on November 01, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
Thank you
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 01, 2020, 10:17:07 AM
No problem! And thanks again. That error requires some very unusual circumstances, so there's basically no chance I would've ever found it on my own. Bug reports make a difference!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 02, 2020, 07:58:25 PM
Starship Legends 1.4.3 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Minor adjustments and fixes for rare or minor bugs.
Also changed reputations for redacted and derelict drones to allow their fleets to have much more diverse trait sets.
Full patch notes here. (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/wiki/Change-Log)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arcagnello on November 03, 2020, 02:39:45 AM
Starship Legends 1.4.3 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with all previous versions

Minor adjustments and fixes for rare or minor bugs.
Also changed reputations for redacted and derelict drones to allow their fleets to have much more diverse trait sets.
Full patch notes here. (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/wiki/Change-Log)

I'm really interested about that better [Redacted] trait variety. I reckon the absolute worst set of traits when fighting remnants would be them getting reduced shield damage taken and higher top speed/acceleration.

That would make them a lot harder to drown in Sabots. Maybe Sprinkle some improved PD damage against missiles/fighters too? I'm just theory crafting here.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arcagnello on November 04, 2020, 02:07:48 PM
So I'm playing a new campaign and came across this:

Spoiler
(http://blob:https://imgur.com/0dbfe720-917d-44c9-9ba7-ac5486198c8f)
[close]

I have no idea how I caused this but it did not happen the previous campaign. The only clue I have is that I've fiddled with the vanilla parameters limiting all in-game fleets to 1 officer and their level to 0.

Plz Halp. A remnant sub-ordo with a similar stat list and 3 cruisers gave me enough PTSD for a lifetime

Edit: fixed it! What what causing the trait spam was the fact I set the maximum level of AI fleet officers to 0. Setting it to 1 makes it work as intended!

Edit 2: noticed the picture is not even working since I could not wait 5 bloody seconds for imugr to upload it. Will fix it tomorrow because it's hilarious.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 04, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
Edit: fixed it! What what causing the trait spam was the fact I set the maximum level of AI fleet officers to 0. Setting it to 1 makes it work as intended!
Yup. Just looked at the code, and setting "officerMaxLevel" to zero would indeed result in erroneous behavior (division by zero). I'll make sure that's handled in future versions. Thanks for pointing it out!

I'm really interested about that better [Redacted] trait variety. I reckon the absolute worst set of traits when fighting remnants would be them getting reduced shield damage taken and higher top speed/acceleration.

That would make them a lot harder to drown in Sabots. Maybe Sprinkle some improved PD damage against missiles/fighters too? I'm just theory crafting here.
Yeah, things can certainly get challenging with unlucky combinations of enemy traits. Increased max speed is one I actually disabled for them to prevent things from getting too crazy.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arcagnello on November 05, 2020, 01:22:23 AM
Yup. Just looked at the code, and setting "officerMaxLevel" to zero would indeed result in erroneous behavior (division by zero). I'll make sure that's handled in future versions. Thanks for pointing it out!

Sometimes all a modder needs to find a bug is enough dumb hamsters fiddling with things they should not. We salute you  8)

Yeah, things can certainly get challenging with unlucky combinations of enemy traits. Increased max speed is one I actually disabled for them to prevent things from getting too crazy.


You should definetly enable max speed traits again once the new patch hits.
The upcoming patch also modifies AI behaviour of the last remaining ship to be incredibly aggressive, nullifying the chance of the enemy cheesing the crap out of the player at the end of the battle. I actually remember almost losing a battle against A SINGLE LUMEN because I killed everything else but I only had overridden ships left getting into the critical malfunction territory whilst chasing it; truly aneurism-inducing.

Also, here's the screenshot. Now try to imagine fighting a remnant sub-Ordo with the same stuff. Heeeeh
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/v5ykGGV.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 07, 2020, 10:04:49 AM
Sometimes all a modder needs to find a bug is enough dumb hamsters fiddling with things they should not. We salute you  8)
o7

You should definetly enable max speed traits again once the new patch hits.
Maybe. I try to keep this mod fairly difficulty-neutral, and I think the possibility of running into remnants with increased max speed would be a bit too harsh for that. Personally I'm all for challenging and somewhat unfair gameplay, but I think a lot of fans of this mod are more casual.

The upcoming patch also modifies AI behaviour of the last remaining ship to be incredibly aggressive, nullifying the chance of the enemy cheesing the crap out of the player at the end of the battle.
Yeah, a lot of good changes on the way with the next version of Starsector  :D

Also, here's the screenshot. Now try to imagine fighting a remnant sub-Ordo with the same stuff. Heeeeh
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/v5ykGGV.png)
[close]
Hah! I would've expected an error message (which would've been better, honestly). That's almost better than the time I got confused about how numbers work and ended up increasing the missile fire rate of ships with "fast missile loaders" by 10,000%...
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundivingdownloader on December 16, 2020, 01:24:16 AM
I'm suspicious of the fact that I keep getting negative traits after mining (with nexerelin).  I suppose it might be a different mod interfering, but I don't see how.  Perhaps mining creates an instance where the involved ships "don't hit anything with the mining lasers" and "cause no damage" so they acquire traits like "harmless"?  I'll keep testing I suppose.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 16, 2020, 06:39:09 PM
By default, the chance of civilian ships getting a bad trait is a flat 50%, unmodified by anything (certainly not mining lasers missing while mining). It's likely just a run of bad luck. I'm planning to change things a bit so that it won't be possible for RNG to screw over unlucky ships quite so badly.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundivingdownloader on December 25, 2020, 08:02:59 PM
By default, the chance of civilian ships getting a bad trait is a flat 50%, unmodified by anything (certainly not mining lasers missing while mining). It's likely just a run of bad luck. I'm planning to change things a bit so that it won't be possible for RNG to screw over unlucky ships quite so badly.

Thanks.  I recently got a few positive traits from mining as well, so it's not entirely one-sided.  It just feels kind of like one of those typical mod semi-conflicts (akin to one I get in XCOM2 where exiting a particular menu always triggers a particular kind of "random" event.)  Nexerelin does pump up your XP from mining to a ridiculous degree - perhaps it messes with something else too in the background, but then again, nobody else has mentioned this issue (yet.)  Perhaps nobody mines... I knew I wasn't cool.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: clown_hand on December 29, 2020, 12:38:09 PM
Suggestion: the AI should sometimes copy the loadouts of legendary ships in the player fleet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: peppermeth on January 01, 2021, 12:02:02 PM
Is it normal to have warship that have one bad trait even when they are very successful in battle?

I have a legendary ship but it still have the "fuel guzzer" mallus.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 03, 2021, 09:55:42 AM
Suggestion: the AI should sometimes copy the loadouts of legendary ships in the player fleet.
Why? I'm having a hard time thinking of a way this would improve anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it?

Is it normal to have warship that have one bad trait even when they are very successful in battle?
Yeah, that's normal. With default settings, only ships with perfect ratings of 100% will gravitate toward have nothing but good traits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: clown_hand on January 04, 2021, 02:08:09 PM
Suggestion: the AI should sometimes copy the loadouts of legendary ships in the player fleet.
Why? I'm having a hard time thinking of a way this would improve anything. Maybe I'm just not seeing it?


It would be a small impact the fame of the player fleet on the world. Something like when the legionaries began stomping everything and the king of Pontus made his army imitate the legions.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 04, 2021, 04:14:22 PM
Ok, gotcha. It would be pretty cool to see the fame of ships reflected in ways other than just a hullmod. I'll keep that goal in mind
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on January 04, 2021, 05:16:45 PM
...You know what would be neat for reflecting fame of player ships? Have one of the bar storyteller options be telling tales about particularly famous player-fleet vessels.

I wouldn't want that to reduce the odds of getting a story of a potentially-useful derelict, though; maybe have it as an alternative to stories of active (or even active non-bounty) NPC fleets?

...I don't have any great ideas for interactions, though. Best notions I've come up with are maybe someone trying to buy the ship in question off you, or perhaps a few crewmembers who want to sign up (kindof like the marines encounter?), or maybe some way to justify an opt-in spawn-a-hostile-fleet thing?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 04, 2021, 08:39:59 PM
Best notions I've come up with are maybe someone trying to buy the ship in question off you, or perhaps a few crewmembers who want to sign up (kindof like the marines encounter?)
Hah! That's exactly the direction I went with it. I just jotted this down in the "bar event ideas" section of my notes a few hours ago:
Quote
Meet crew who are fans of a famous ship/captain, who offer to join for free, increasing loyalty
And this one has been in that section for months:
Quote
Fleet commander/Aspiring bounty hunter (independent) - offers to buy one of the famous ships in your fleet (can't find decent ships)

Not sure what you're getting at with the hostile fleet spawning thing. Mind elaborating?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on January 04, 2021, 11:11:16 PM
Was thinking something along the lines of getting news that a pirate "privateer" is hunting your fleet to try and salvage your high-rep ship - except that that doesn't quite work because it doesn't seem fair to just drop that on the player without it being in some way opt-in.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Farya on January 05, 2021, 01:51:44 AM
What if player could themselves spread rumors about their ships to make them gain reputation faster? And this would also cause various kinds of adventurers to hunt your fleet for glory and famous ships to add to their collections. Maybe there could also be a bar event where someone hears your story and challenges you? If you agree you get to fight alone on your famous ship against their famed flagship of equal DP AND you also get a big reputation boost for your ships on victory.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IonDragonX on January 05, 2021, 07:39:41 AM
Wyvern & Farya are on to something. I'd suggest something like:
Bar event: Player finds a storyteller
Player choice: listens to the tale
New choice: A) Player asks how to find the ship B) Player simply leaves C) Player ignores the storyteller's ship an brags about his own, making it more famous or infamous.
Hidden chance if C is chosen: Bountyhunters are sent after the player ship
Hidden chance if C is chosen: Wealthy potentiate makes a very lucrative offer on the player ship
Hidden chance if C is chosen: Port authority recognize your ship if you had ever used the Black Market where the bar is. Your ship is impounded (not your fleet, just that one ship) & you are forced to buy it back at auction after a month passes.
Title: Re: Starship Legends - Personality for Your Ships and Crew
Post by: Szasz on January 06, 2021, 08:44:34 AM
I wonder if this can spawn rare, blueprintless and unproducable ships like IBBs from Ship and Weapon Pack.

Notes: Losing legendary traits maintaining 100% combat rating is quite annoying.  Gaining negative traits for no apparent reason after a ludicrous salvage on logistic ships is also quite annoying. Same with a good performing combat ship that just increased its combat rating.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Farya on January 07, 2021, 01:22:04 AM
Civilian ship amassing all the negative traits is really very annoying and makes me want to never use them, getting combat freighters instead. They should not get reputation differently from combat ships at all or get a less random system - salvaging good stuff, gaining experience from bulk trading and missions would give them good rep, accidents during salvaging would reduce it.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: AlexAtheos on January 13, 2021, 12:46:54 PM
unsure how to feel about THIS

Clunky
(https://i.imgur.com/y6U3xBu.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 14, 2021, 06:22:42 AM
It looks like you increased "fleetTraitEffectMult" by quite a bit (or possibly "effectMult" for the notable tier). Pretty sure that would only be a 45% reduction with default settings. I wouldn't recommend setting effectMults much higher than the defaults.

@Wyvern, Farya, IonDragonX: Sorry for the late reply. A new feature involving famous ships attracting some form of hostility could be cool if I can figure out a good way to do it. I'll keep it in mind.

Losing legendary traits maintaining 100% combat rating is quite annoying.  Gaining negative traits for no apparent reason after a ludicrous salvage on logistic ships is also quite annoying.
Civilian ship amassing all the negative traits is really very annoying and makes me want to never use them, getting combat freighters instead.
Some of the changes I have planned should help address these issues by providing more options and making them more accessible.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: peppermeth on January 16, 2021, 07:50:43 PM


Is it normal to have warship that have one bad trait even when they are very successful in battle?
Yeah, that's normal. With default settings, only ships with perfect ratings of 100% will gravitate toward have nothing but good traits.
[/quote]

Yeah but the said ship have more than a 100% rating. If i can change this whit the setting, can you explain me how. 
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2021, 08:12:52 PM
Yeah but the said ship have more than a 100% rating.
That would be a bug. How high is the rating? If it is consistently at (or possibly above) 100%, then the ship will eventually have only good traits.

If i can change this whit the setting, can you explain me how. 
The easiest way would be to set "ignoreAllMaluses" to true in the config file. That would prevent any ship from getting new negative traits. You could also use the console commands mod to edit the traits of your ships to your liking. Open the console and enter "help starship_legends" for a list of relevant commands.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on January 22, 2021, 03:39:21 PM
Got a storyteller-spawned derelict that was literally inside a star when I entered the system.

It was a binary system of the 'two stars in close orbit around each other, then other things orbiting around the pair of them' type, and fortunately the ship wasn't on exactly the same orbital period as the stars were, so I was able to recover it after waiting a bit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 23, 2021, 05:44:56 PM
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out! Seems more like a feature than a bug to me, even if the orbital period had been exactly the same. That kind of orbital arrangement might become problematic in the next version of Starsector once the interaction changes between terrain and emergency burn. For now it seems fine, but I'll reassess once I've played 0.95a a bit.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Helldiver on January 24, 2021, 08:51:45 AM
Got a storyteller-spawned derelict that was literally inside a star when I entered the system.

It was a binary system of the 'two stars in close orbit around each other, then other things orbiting around the pair of them' type, and fortunately the ship wasn't on exactly the same orbital period as the stars were, so I was able to recover it after waiting a bit.

I like those extreme kind of terrain situations, when you finally get that ship it feels truly rewarding.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Rhinoscerous on February 01, 2021, 01:49:56 PM
So this is the second time that my flagship has lost a positive trait after winning a battle and wiping (or routing) the enemy fleet without taking any damage. I know that, by deployment numbers, this was an "easy" battle, but I still think it's ridiculous to lose a positive trait after blapping some scrubs. Honestly this makes me not want to fly my flagship in smaller engagements, which just isn't any fun. Is there any way to change this in the config files?

(https://i.imgur.com/DKBgFfV.png)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 02, 2021, 05:58:51 PM
Negative trait changes aren't supposed to occur unless the ship loses at least 1% of its rating. Apparently that's not the case. I suspect it's some sort of general bug, but just to narrow things down: Are you using the latest version (1.4.3)? Have you changed the configuration at all? If so, how? Thanks for any details, and sorry for the trouble!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on February 03, 2021, 08:18:24 AM
I can verify that this happens with version 1.4.3 - though I have also changed my configuration (set bonusChanceForCivilianShips to 1.0 and modified traits.csv to set loyalty chance to zero.)

I'd believed that this was an intended mechanic that could be disabled by setting bonusChanceRandomness to zero instead of its default 0.05?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Rhinoscerous on February 03, 2021, 10:55:03 AM
I am using 1.4.3 and haven't changed the config in any way. This has been happening fairly frequently for me.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 03, 2021, 06:21:43 PM
Ok so it turns out everything is working as intended, I just misremembered the original intention a bit. The rule is that rating changes above 1% will prevent negative traits (and vice versa), NOT that rating changes above -1% will prevent them, as I stated earlier. It's a small but significant difference. Sorry for lying to you guys!

So, contrary to what I said earlier, rating changes between -1% and +1% will allow both positive and negative changes, depending on the difference between the combat rating and the ratio of good to bad traits. I believe I decided it should work that way in order to allow for more flexibility in adjusting trait sets to match ratings. The scenario Rhinoscerous pointed out is a great argument against that flexibility, however, so with the next update I'll probably make it work as I said yesterday (good trait changes require at least +1% rating and bad ones require -1% or worse). Or I might simplify the rule and do away with the 1% thresholds. Negative rating changes required for negative traits and pos for pos. I'll have to consider it. Open to feedback!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on February 03, 2021, 06:55:19 PM
Hm, tricky. I'm not sure there's necessarily a truly simple solution here that'll cover all cases...

I'd be inclined to have sliding thresholds based on total reputation (a legendary reputation is harder to change than a notable reputation), and how far out of line the existing traits are with the combat rating (something that's somehow gotten a 100% combat rating with all negative traits can get a positive adjustment even while losing rating... or vice versa).

...But on the other hand, that sounds like it'd be difficult to calibrate well, and might also have issues with communicating to the player what those thresholds are or why traits are changing the way they are. I'd probably still try for it, but I also tend to over-complicate things sometimes.

Edit: Also, do ships actually end up with traits that are wildly out of line with their combat rating? I guess that might happen with combat freighters or something?



That said, the thing that I'd most want to avoid is the situation I've seen a few times of "Battle 1, ship gains trait, Battle 2, rating doesn't change much, ship immediately loses the trait it just gained."
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Rhinoscerous on February 04, 2021, 09:18:20 AM
...But on the other hand, that sounds like it'd be difficult to calibrate well, and might also have issues with communicating to the player what those thresholds are or why traits are changing the way they are. I'd probably still try for it, but I also tend to over-complicate things sometimes.
Honestly I think something as simple as "no negative trait gain on positive rating change" is good enough. It might already work this way, but the only but you could scale the chance of positive changes based on performance, but there should be no reason to gain negative traits if the ship performs well.

That said, the thing that I'd most want to avoid is the situation I've seen a few times of "Battle 1, ship gains trait, Battle 2, rating doesn't change much, ship immediately loses the trait it just gained."
This also happens to me all the time. "Yay finally got a really good trait" *5 minutes later* "ope, there it goes."

Here's another recent battle where I wiped the enemy fleet, taking 0 damage in return, yet 2/3 ships gained negative traits https://i.imgur.com/vpb0W11.png
I wouldn't be bothered so much if this was like 1/100 battles, but it's practically every time I get into a fight.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on February 04, 2021, 09:25:00 AM
I might also consider different thresholds for different types of trait changes.

Specifically, I'd prefer it to be harder to lose a trait (whether positive or negative) than it is to re-order traits or gain traits.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 05, 2021, 07:08:46 PM
Hm, tricky. I'm not sure there's necessarily a truly simple solution here that'll cover all cases...

I'd be inclined to have sliding thresholds based on total reputation (a legendary reputation is harder to change than a notable reputation), and how far out of line the existing traits are with the combat rating (something that's somehow gotten a 100% combat rating with all negative traits can get a positive adjustment even while losing rating... or vice versa).

...But on the other hand, that sounds like it'd be difficult to calibrate well, and might also have issues with communicating to the player what those thresholds are or why traits are changing the way they are. I'd probably still try for it, but I also tend to over-complicate things sometimes.
Lots of good points. Sliding threshholds for reputation volatility would be great. But, yeah, I'd prefer to avoid adding any more complexity than absolutely necessary. Starship legends (particularly the rating system) is already far more complex than I'd like it to be. Mods having a lot of opaque complexity is actually a big pet-peeve of mine, so, franky, I'm ashamed. Honestly, if I could restart this mod from scratch I wouldn't consider making traits depend on combat performance in any way. It's a fun mechanic, but it's also been a huge source of confusion, bugs, maintenance, compromise, and general dissatisfaction.

Edit: Also, do ships actually end up with traits that are wildly out of line with their combat rating? I guess that might happen with combat freighters or something?
Not in my experience, but who knows.

That said, the thing that I'd most want to avoid is the situation I've seen a few times of "Battle 1, ship gains trait, Battle 2, rating doesn't change much, ship immediately loses the trait it just gained."
Yeah, for sure. Preventing small rep changes of less than 1% from causing trait changes should help quite a bit with that, but it'll still be possible. I might wait to see how much that change improves the situation before considering further changes.

It might already work this way, but the only but you could scale the chance of positive changes based on performance, but there should be no reason to gain negative traits if the ship performs well.
Agreed. The default config is pretty aggressive about trying to make a ship's ratio of good and bad traits match up with its rating instead of granting traits based on the ship's performance in the most recent battle. It sounds like that might be your preference though. You might want to take a look at the "better immersion" configuration edits in the "recommended option presets" section of the OP.

I might also consider different thresholds for different types of trait changes.

Specifically, I'd prefer it to be harder to lose a trait (whether positive or negative) than it is to re-order traits or gain traits.
Yeah, that would be good. I'll have to consider the best way to actually achieve that.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Otharious on March 26, 2021, 11:18:14 PM
curious if this needs any tweaking for the game update?
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IonDragonX on March 27, 2021, 10:03:33 AM
curious if this needs any tweaking for the game update?
Probably. You could always experiment by editing the mod_info.json file so it "claims" that it is compatible with 0.95-RC9
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 27, 2021, 06:06:50 PM
curious if this needs any tweaking for the game update?
Probably. You could always experiment by editing the mod_info.json file so it "claims" that it is compatible with 0.95-RC9
I wouldn't recommend it! While starship legends might mostly work with 0.95a, it will cause errors under some conditions. I've checked and found code incompatibilities.

It shouldn't be too long before I can release an update.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 29, 2021, 08:16:13 PM
Starship Legends 1.5.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

Updated compatibility to Starsector version 0.95a
Fixed various rare or minor issues thanks to engine improvements from 0.95a
Fixed max integrity not being counted correctly for some ships with modules, resulting in their damage taken frequently being erroneously reported as 100%
Changed: Distinct visuals and updated icons for reputation hullmods
Changed: Reduced how frequently remnant fleets have the "deadly" trait by half
Changed: Rating changes between +1% and -1% can no longer result in traits being lost or new negative traits being gained
Changed default settings to be more difficult (due to ruthless sector not being available):
-  More difficult to maintain good traits (baseRating reduced from 0.65 to 0.5)
-  Ratings are reduced more by damage taken (damageTakenMult increased from 0.65 to 0.85)
-  Chance for officers to improve loyalty reduced by 50%
-  Famous derelicts may be guarded by Remnant fleets
Integration: Mods that add hull-regenerating ships can now add entries to the merged file at data/config/starship_legends/hull_regen_ships.csv


Known Issues:
In rare cases, rating adjustments will not take damage sustained by your ships into account correctly (0% sustained damage on the battle report)
Famous NPC flagships and derelicts from bar event missions are frequently not recoverable after being destroyed in battle

Starship Legends will undergo an overhaul to address these issues and make other improvements, but that won't be ready for quite a while
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zangetsuke on March 30, 2021, 12:14:20 PM
That don't work

Quote of error: "Minimum Version: 0.95.0a-RC11"
                       "Current Version: 0.95.0a-RC10"


My bad, didn't see the new link of download by Alex.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: ck68 on March 30, 2021, 06:56:23 PM
That don't work

Quote of error: "Minimum Version: 0.95.0a-RC11"
                       "Current Version: 0.95.0a-RC10"


My bad, didn't see the new link of download by Alex.

Where is the new link?

Yeah I don't see any new link the only one I see has the RC11 issue
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Histidine on March 30, 2021, 07:49:03 PM
We're on RC12 now, redownload the installer from the same link as the previous version.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 30, 2021, 08:36:00 PM
Where is the new link?

Yeah I don't see any new link the only one I see has the RC11 issue

Yep. What Histidine said. https://fractalsoftworks.com/preorder/
Starsector won't run mods if they're built for a later version of the game than the one you're running, apparently.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: hkmist on March 31, 2021, 03:19:52 AM
Rating decrease on damage taken seem a bit too much.
Front line ship lost rating faster than they gain if they get hull damage, even they have deal a good amount of damage in the fight 
Just get a fight a paragon tank and sweep half of a enemy fleet and get a -2.4 rating because it had taken 30% hull damage, it just feel odd
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 31, 2021, 07:12:14 PM
Yeah, the new default rating difficulty is closer to the old ruthless sector default than the old default without ruthless sector, so some people will find it too harsh. I figured most people playing the game now have had some experience, since the Sseth wave was almost a year ago. The next major update will include features that make alternative configurations much more accessible.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Flunky on April 03, 2021, 01:44:55 PM
Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but the 0 flux bonus enemy fleets can sometimes get ("Blockade Runner") interacts kind of... iffy with Safety Overrides ships, especially ones with officers. Like, cruisers with 200+ speed sort of iffy. Pathers in particular can make for pretty zany battles if they roll a fleet with a significant bonus to 0 flux speed, given the number of SO ships they generally have.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Achilles42x on April 03, 2021, 03:29:47 PM
I adore this mod.

I have one small QoL thought, if you think it makes sense (and isn't a whole bunch of work)- if in the post-battle report, you could hover over each ship and see a tooltip with all of their extra effects' names, and what they do, that would be ***. AFAIK the best way to do that now is to look at the tooltip in the refit screen.

Thanks for your work!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 03, 2021, 08:22:06 PM
I confirmed last night that damage dealt against stations currently isn't being counted by starship legends. Hoping to get a patch out tonight or sometime tomorrow!

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but the 0 flux bonus enemy fleets can sometimes get ("Blockade Runner") interacts kind of... iffy with Safety Overrides ships, especially ones with officers. Like, cruisers with 200+ speed sort of iffy. Pathers in particular can make for pretty zany battles if they roll a fleet with a significant bonus to 0 flux speed, given the number of SO ships they generally have.
Hmm... not sure what you mean. What's a 0 flux bonus enemy fleet? The blockade runner trait is disabled by default, and only enabled for pirates and independents. So the only factions that should ever get that trait are those two and any mod faction that has explicitly specified that its fleets should get it. So if pather's are getting the blockade runner trait it's a bug. I guess pathers could get the blockade runner trait if they join forces with a fleet from another faction to fight against you, but that should be rare enough that I'm not gonna stress over it.

I adore this mod.

I have one small QoL thought, if you think it makes sense (and isn't a whole bunch of work)- if in the post-battle report, you could hover over each ship and see a tooltip with all of their extra effects' names, and what they do, that would be ***. AFAIK the best way to do that now is to look at the tooltip in the refit screen.

Thanks for your work!
Thanks for the kind words! Long ago I tried and failed to add hover tooltips to each ship's row on battle reports, but I'll give it another shot since the game updated with better mod support.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Flunky on April 03, 2021, 08:40:20 PM
Hmm, I may be remembering wrong in the case of pathers, then, though I have had a few Benny Hill fights where my fast destroyer is just slightly slower than a pair of pather cruisers and so is forced to lead them on a merry chase for most of the battle.

The more recent fights have been where I've seen that have been with pirates, and in those cases it's a portion of the enemy cruiser fleet that have SO plus officer plus the +50ish percent boost to 0 flux. That's with non-vanilla cruisers, albeit not ones particularly faster than vanilla variants. That was the only scenario I saw cruisers with 200+ speed, though thankfully those ones generally lack the suicidal fervor of a pather fleet.

I'll keep an eye to see if I do see Blockade Runner pop up on a Pather fleet and grab a screen shot if so. (So if I don't post anything later, assume I was in the wrong.)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Achilles42x on April 04, 2021, 01:02:04 AM
Quick question for anyone who might know- does damage from your ship's fighters/bombers count toward your ship's damage output for rating purposes?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Maethendias on April 04, 2021, 03:25:42 AM
does this mod work with your flagship too? or is it only ai/officer ships ?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 04, 2021, 07:35:35 AM
I'll keep an eye to see if I do see Blockade Runner pop up on a Pather fleet and grab a screen shot if so. (So if I don't post anything later, assume I was in the wrong.)
I appreciate it!

Quick question for anyone who might know- does damage from your ship's fighters/bombers count toward your ship's damage output for rating purposes?
Yes. Fighters are treated like missiles for the purpose of ratings. Damage they deal is counted as dealt by the ship that launched them and damage dealt to them doesn't count for rating purposes at all.

does this mod work with your flagship too? or is it only ai/officer ships ?
This mod treats your flagship the same as any other ship, and it treats your character the same as an officer.
Title: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 04, 2021, 12:48:01 PM
Starship Legends 1.5.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Fixed damage dealt to stations not being counted toward ratings


Known Issues:
In rare cases, rating adjustments will not take damage sustained by your ships into account correctly (0% sustained damage on the battle report)
Famous NPC flagships and derelicts from bar event missions are frequently not recoverable after being destroyed in battle

Starship Legends will undergo an overhaul to address these issues and make other improvements, but that won't be ready for quite a while
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Asherogar on April 04, 2021, 04:02:00 PM
Is all [REDACTED] fleets have the same insane bonus? It's been 4th playthrough with this mod and they always has this insane [+21% dmg, +18% dissipation, -20% dmg taken on shield]. Sorry but those bonuses are OP, on top of cranked officers spam it's literally 0.1 shields, 2000+ of dissipation and very flux efficient energy weapons. Can you please tone down those bonuses a bit?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 04, 2021, 07:10:45 PM
Yeah, I think I will tone down enemy fleet trait effects in the next update. I've been considering it ever since the update that originally introduced fleet reputations, actually. I really like the high bonuses, personally, but I knew people would complain about it. I'm hoping to make it easier to configure in the future, but in the meantime you can reduce the effects by editing STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini to lower the "fleetTraitEffectMult" setting.

You can also change the specific traits that factions are likely to get by editing the files in "\mods\Starship Legends\data\world\factions\"
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IonDragonX on April 04, 2021, 07:13:35 PM
Hi Sundog. When the storyteller creates a random ship hook, can you add a low chance for it to have 1 or 2 S-mods?  8)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: ReconUHD on April 05, 2021, 03:54:02 AM
how is reputation grinding balanced for the new level cap, or any other modified level cap for that matter?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 05, 2021, 09:00:01 AM
Hi Sundog. When the storyteller creates a random ship hook, can you add a low chance for it to have 1 or 2 S-mods?  8)
Why, yes. Yes I can. That's a good idea. I'll add it to my TODO list.

how is reputation grinding balanced for the new level cap, or any other modified level cap for that matter?
Good question! Honestly I failed to consider the implications of the new skill system for starship legends, so things are a bit off (try not to judge, I've been juggling many projects). In 0.9.1 it took about 8,355K XP to reach max level and in 0.95 it takes 8,140K, so things are about the same in that regard. However, I didn't increase "traitChanceBonusPerPlayerLevel" to compensate for the lower max level, so I'll fix that up with the next update.

To answer your question, if you keep a ship with you from level 1 to 15 and use it frequently it should be famous (with 5 or 6 traits) by the time you hit max level. Increasing the max level will only affect starship legends by increasing the aforementioned trait-chance-per-player-level bonus, so you might just want to adjust that to your liking in the settings file.

Edit: there's also traitChanceMultPerPlayerCaptainLevel and traitChanceMultPerNonPlayerCaptainLevel
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: UNOwenWasMe on April 05, 2021, 09:50:24 AM
Yeah, I think I will tone down enemy fleet trait effects in the next update. I've been considering it ever since the update that originally introduced fleet reputations, actually. I really like the high bonuses, personally, but I knew people would complain about it. I'm hoping to make it easier to configure in the future, but in the meantime you can reduce the effects by editing STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini to lower the "fleetTraitEffectMult" setting.

You can also change the specific traits that factions are likely to get by editing the files in "\mods\Starship Legends\data\world\factions\"

It of course depends on how Alex is going to tone down the officer spam and such, but right now I can confirm that Remnant are absolutely bonkers with this mod installed (I mean they'd already be because of alpha cores but this is next level). They already have good shields and giving them extra bonuses on top of that is making the whole experience rather frustrating.

Of course, it's my decision to play with this mod in the first place, I love it and I hope I can keep using it in the future!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Rain on April 05, 2021, 12:59:16 PM
By and large a very neat mod; I'm a big enthusiast of the idea of making individual ships special (and so make it sting all the more when they break), and this plus the .95 built-in features play together very nicely for that.

A couple of thoughts/suggestions that I've had playing with the mod (and maybe have already been thought so, y'know, take them for what it is) for integrating S-mods (is that what we're calling them?) and story points a bit with it:
- Ships with S-mods gaining reputation a bit faster, like 5/10/15% or so? It seems like the sort of thing that'd mark a ship as something special, rare and, in spacer circles, worth talking about.
- A story point use to re-roll the fame modifiers the ship has? Maybe it's complicated and not-worth-the-effort, and there's something to be said for the ships being quirky in ways you can't really control and actively fish for, but on the other hand story points are there to let you make your own story... Maybe it'd work, maybe not.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dex on April 05, 2021, 01:14:11 PM
This mod, in hand with the new story points, go a long way to establishing the traditionally disposable ships as emotional investments. Which i not only think is great, but necessary for a decent run of ironman.

To jump on some of your suggestions Kou, maybe instead of S-mod ships inherently gaining traits faster, you could spent a point to increase the liklihood/decrease threshold? Story points are essentially infinite so adding more point sinks would be good instead of latching onto ones that are already there.

edit: i did something and keyboard stopped working. Strange.

To continue: The re-roll of existing traits i do like, though make the likely hood that its negative higher than positive, IMHO, these ships get powerful even with random boosts, being able to veto a few might get too OP too quickly.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Rain on April 05, 2021, 11:43:00 PM
To continue: The re-roll of existing traits i do like, though make the likely hood that its negative higher than positive, IMHO, these ships get powerful even with random boosts, being able to veto a few might get too OP too quickly.

True, though I was mostly thinking of it as a re-roll of all of them at once, rather than getting to re-roll them individually; sure you could then veto ones you don't like, but you might lose something you do want, and/or end up with more negatives than you had before, etc. Then again that might just push it into a "re-roll ships that got several to many negatives" and I've only a loose grasp of the balance of the game to begin with. :D
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Flunky on April 06, 2021, 08:25:58 PM
You're likely already aware, but:

Spoiler
The Ziggurat encounter at Alpha Site gets Legends bonuses, and quite a massive array of them too.

(both positive and negative, I should note, though not sure how various stats like fighter durability apply to it
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 08, 2021, 07:35:21 PM
On using story points to re-roll traits:
I have plans to introduce a bar event that will allow players to periodically exert a small amount of control over the traits their ships have. Basically, it will let you spend a story point to swap a randomly selected trait from a randomly selected ship in your fleet with any of several traits of the same sign/goodness. I... hope that sentence made sense.


- Ships with S-mods gaining reputation a bit faster, like 5/10/15% or so? It seems like the sort of thing that'd mark a ship as something special, rare and, in spacer circles, worth talking about.
That could be neat, but I think it might not be worth the additional complexity, since upgraded ships will already gain more, better traits simply by virtue of performing better in battle.

You're likely already aware, but:

Spoiler
The Ziggurat encounter at Alpha Site gets Legends bonuses, and quite a massive array of them too.

(both positive and negative, I should note, though not sure how various stats like fighter durability apply to it
[close]
I was not aware, but I suppose it makes sense given that the number of traits scales with the level of the commanding officer. Still trying to make it to late-game content so I can better understand how my mods interact with the game at that point, but I don't have much time. How many traits did the enemy fleet have?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Flunky on April 08, 2021, 07:56:16 PM
Unfortunately don't recall the exact number, but somewhere between 6 and 10? Not a truly absurd number, just a bit surprising to find traits on an already pretty tricky confrontation.

Was still able to punch through it with a dedicated fleet (after 'acceptable' casualties), and I'm no master at the game, so it doesn't make it insurmountable.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 09, 2021, 04:33:23 PM
Ah, ok. Thanks for the details! I probably should add some sort of cap to keep over-leveled fleet commanders like that from getting too crazy.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 12, 2021, 06:17:50 AM
Has anyone had their traits disappear randomly from ships without warning? I can for some reason fix it by transferring the ship to storage, ( yeah the trait just comes back idk) and back but its still kinda weird.

Maybe im having ram issues? Its honestly confusing.

Edit: Agh, its caused by saving and reloading so its probably memory related. I assume anyway. And it only happens to the Diable Avionics shears too so i give up.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sinosauropteryx on April 12, 2021, 08:51:11 AM
Am I blind, or is the download link missing on the first post? (I was able to get it from discord.)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: NDogmeat on April 12, 2021, 09:00:43 AM
Am I blind, or is the download link missing on the first post? (I was able to get it from discord.)

I'm as blind as you are...
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 12, 2021, 09:07:02 AM
Has anyone had their traits disappear randomly from ships without warning? I can for some reason fix it by transferring the ship to storage, ( yeah the trait just comes back idk) and back but its still kinda weird.

Maybe im having ram issues? Its honestly confusing.

Edit: Agh, its caused by saving and reloading so its probably memory related. I assume anyway. And it only happens to the Diable Avionics shears too so i give up.
Hey, thanks for mentioning this! I'm not aware of anything like that. Can't reproduce it on my end by adding traits to shears, saving, and reloading. Would you mind providing a few more details so I can get to the bottom of it?
Thanks for any details you can provide!

Am I blind, or is the download link missing on the first post? (I was able to get it from discord.)
Hmm... yeah, it's not showing up for some reason. Looks like the service that provides those fancy download-count buttons is down.  I'll put up a simple link to the download
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 12, 2021, 11:18:12 AM
Welp it appears to be all of the civilian ships that are doing it instead of just the shears, and considering no one else is having this problem I must be running into an outside context mod conflict/ram issue so crud. ( The whole hullmod that simulates the traits disappears.)

Even after checking the logs no errors are reported even with careful reproduction of the situation. I realllly wanna lean toward ram but I don't really know if that would be the issue as I'm not to experienced with troubleshooting starsector.

I can just backtrack to a station to fix it so nothing totally game breaking is happening.

(I was going to attach my log but apparently it was too large. That made me sad.)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IonDragonX on April 12, 2021, 12:53:12 PM
Welp it appears to be all of the civilian ships that are doing it instead of just the shears, and considering no one else is having this problem I must be running into an outside context mod conflict/ram issue so crud. ( The whole hullmod that simulates the traits disappears.)
You probably want to report this bug to DA as well in 'Bug Reports'-'Modded'
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 12, 2021, 05:47:58 PM
I don't think the issue iseethings is having has anything to do with DA or RAM. My guess is that some strange circumstance is causing starship legends to think those reputations should be removed, or perhaps another mod is accidentally removing them.

@iseethings: I'm pretty sure this is something I can fix if I figure out what's causing it. Two more questions I should've asked originally:
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 13, 2021, 12:38:53 AM
Sorry for being so late, i've been unconscious for a few hours

Heres my mod list from the enabled mods file, also I did switch out a old version but that one was used on a different save- I also deleted the entire folder for the old version before updating.

Spoiler
-------------------------------------
  "$$$_lightshow",
  "$$$_trailermoments",
  "adjustable_skill_thresholds",
  "Adjusted Sector",
  "anotherportraitpack",
  "armaa",
  "timid_admins",
  "beyondthesector",
  "CaptainsLog",
  "chatter",
  "timid_commissioned_hull_mods",
  "lw_console",
  "domain_mship_controllable",
  "diableavionics",
  "gunnyhegexpeditionary",
  "hostileIntercept",
  "kadur_remnant",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "MagicLib",
  "Mayasuran Navy",
  "nexerelin",
  "old_hyperion",
  "remnant_command_transfer",
  "tahlan_scalartech",
  "SCY",
  "SEEKER",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "tahlan",
  "exalted",
  "star_federation",
  "TORCHSHIPS",
  "US",
  "URW",
  "vayra ship pack",
  "prv",
  "shaderLib"
-------------------------
[close]

Edit: Im going to use console commands and test different mod combinations for possible conflicts. If that doesn't work i'll do a full reinstall.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 13, 2021, 12:59:59 AM
Alright now i wish i didnt do the testing. I might actually lose my mind.

For some reason, a new unmodified version of this mod, with this mod list-

  "lw_console",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "MagicLib",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "shaderLib"

Is having traits from civilian ships disappear and its kinda baffling.

In other news that might be helpful, even though almost ALL my mods are deactivated I see LOADS of them in the game log. Could that be an issue? Ill try removing them and deleting or replacing the mods enabled folder. Doubt it though.

Edit: Replaced all mods and the folder, issue still persist. again it can be fixed by transferring ships so the tag isnt totally gone, just on some weird standby.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 13, 2021, 03:35:33 PM
Sorry for being so late, i've been unconscious for a few hours
No worries. Everybody sleeps  :P

Alright now i wish i didnt do the testing. I might actually lose my mind.
Heh. I know the feeling...

Alright, that rules out mod conflicts, so I should be able to reproduce the issue on my end with the same mod list. If you can reproduce the issue reliably, then I must be doing something wrong to make the bug occur. Could you describe exactly what you did in your new game to get the traits to disappear? Also, have you modified any of the settings files for Starsector or starship legends?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 13, 2021, 05:56:30 PM
I did a full reinstall of starship legends with no edits along with a barebones load out of console commands and the three libs- when I did my test it still happened, and the only edits to the data files of starsector I have made are increasing crew pay and increasing the shipcap for the player fleet.

And... honestly if you can't reproduce the problem on your end its probably best if I just accept it and move on, trying to find out what (REDACTED) algorithm is causing this would be a trial in
madness at that point. It doesn't really bone my game over and if its only affecting me than there's no serious issue. I still get to enjoy one of the best mods on the fractal forums- albeit with a minor annoyance.

EDIT: Forgot to put in details.

The trait kind of goes into a limbo on a reload, just disappears on a civilian ship or two with no discernable reason or error in my log. If I load at all actually its guaranteed for a trait to disappear into thin air for at least one civilian ship. I don't know why it only affects civilian hulls. Its honestly the only reason I don't Just assume its a ram issue at this point.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 13, 2021, 06:28:56 PM
Wait, here's a save in dropbox that has the problem occurring. I went ahead and recreated the steps for the bug using the barebones loadout, (Console commands, starship legends, and the three libs.) and every time I load it up one of the nebulas or the buffalo is missing a trait. The buffalo and the three nebulas all have a trait because of semi "natural" XP generation through the console commands if that help.

If your not having the problem with the save I'm having when using the mod loadout and this save then I may honestly be suffering from a bad install.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s3hlzkk7oxcipzr/AAD4wXEjc8a0YCHKYWcNw_eFa?dl=0

Another edit Because my thought process is one large run on sentence: IF none of the specified civi ships have traits and the bug is happening for you, transfer them to the abandoned station and then back. They should get their traits back.

Last Edit of my life I swear: Made an error, its two nebulas. I forgot to save after grabbing the third to continue testing the bug.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 13, 2021, 07:59:31 PM
Ok, I reproduced the issue using the save you provided, so now I'll be able to figure out what's causing it. Hopefully I'll be able to get to the bottom of this and fix it up tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 13, 2021, 08:01:17 PM
Oh god I literally thought I was just going insane. Thank you too for your willingness to fix it and your understanding of the issue.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 14, 2021, 04:23:47 AM
Alright, got it. Fixed for the next patch. For now, you can prevent ships from losing their reputation hullmods by making sure they have at least one ordnance point used (no seriously!).

The problem is caused by the fact that Starsector takes a shortcut when saving ship data in order to save space: if a ship is not customized in any way, it's saved as a simple hull without all of the unnecessary details of its (non-existant) loadout. Presumably this cuts down on save bloat from NPC fleets significantly. For some reason the game doesn't recognize starship legend's reputation hullmods when considering this, so it won't save them if they're the only customization on a ship. There's nothing I can do about that, but starship legends retains the data needed to re-link the ships with their hullmods, so I fixed it by doing that when the game loads. This same reputation hullmod refreshing/re-linking also occurs each time you leave any station/market, which is why the traits would come back each time you placed the ships in storage and took them back out.

I was testing with ships that either had already been customized or were generated with loadouts on game creation, which is why I failed to reproduce the issue.

Oh god I literally thought I was just going insane. Thank you too for your willingness to fix it and your understanding of the issue.
Heh. Yeah, not insane, we were just overlooking a seemingly insignificant detail. Glad we could help each other! Finding and fixing things like this would be impossible if I did all the testing myself!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: iseethings on April 14, 2021, 10:07:02 AM
Welp, explains why I thought it was random hulls. I would leave some of them completely unmodified because I didn't think I'd keep them for more than 3 months. Thanks for Helping me Sundog.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 14, 2021, 07:36:21 PM
You bet. And thanks again for all the info!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: captinjoehenry on April 17, 2021, 12:06:45 PM
I’m having a weird issue.  My confit files are all stock for this mod and none of my ships can get more than 3 traits.  The only way they get more than that is if they pick up a negative trait which then can get flipped to a positive one.  This feels really odd as in previous versions of this mod I could easily get my ships to legendary status just by using them constantly but even after a whole play through where my fleet has been more or less constant none of my ships have gained more than 3 traits unless they picked up a negative trait which is really really weird. 

Is this a bug?  Or is this something I can change in the config files?  As it seems odd that my ships that have been around for years and have destroyed the hegemony are only well known.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 18, 2021, 04:39:30 AM
Yeah, that's not ideal. Sounds like a lot of your ships are stuck in a kind of mediocrity limbo: they can't get new negative traits because they never suffer damage in battle, and they can't get new positive ones because their ratings aren't high enough to justify having 100% good traits (this only kicks in after the first three traits). I expect that this situation would be common for skilled players who are very careful to protect their ships.

Not sure I'd call this a bug, but it's certainly not ideal. I think I'll change it so that instead of allowing the first three traits to ignore the need for a suitable rating there will be a chance to allow it that diminishes based on the number of traits. That will allow ships like yours to continue to improve their perfect reputations, just at a reduced rate.

There are ways to get around it by editing the settings file, but there's no setting that allows you to only prevent this specific behavior. You might want to just increase baseRating or choose one of the "recommended option presets" from the OP.

The only way they get more than that is if they pick up a negative trait which then can get flipped to a positive one.
Flipped? Not sure what you mean.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Euripides on April 18, 2021, 07:51:23 AM
Is it normal that all my logistics ships which never go into battle continuously get negative traits?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 18, 2021, 08:35:39 AM
Yes, that's normal. By default there's a flat 50% chance for new traits to be negative for civilian ships. The option to change it is "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Farya on April 18, 2021, 09:49:38 AM
Why was it made this way in first place? This honestly just makes running fleet with civilian ships not very efficient in long run as you will have to replace your civilian ships eventually due to them amassing bad reputation. Or at least storing them at your colony for some time.
Maybe it should be tied to actual non-combat activities instead? Like having your cargo holds full or overfull for some time, suffering/not suffering accidents during salvaging and such would affect the reputation of your civilian ships. If your civilian ship suffer from storms it might also possibly affect them in a way.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Tale on April 18, 2021, 10:09:56 AM
Hi, if i wanna get traits only when my ships is in the battle regardless other effects like moving from planet to planet, storms atc. so this ignoreAllMaluses":false setting must be set like true ?

thanks
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 18, 2021, 11:36:10 AM
Hi, if i wanna get traits only when my ships is in the battle regardless other effects like moving from planet to planet, storms atc. so this ignoreAllMaluses":false setting must be set like true ?
No, that will make it so your ships only ever get good traits. It sounds like you want to change "traitChanceMultForCivilianShips" to 0. That will prevent civilian ships from gaining traits from experience earned outside of battle. Hyperspace storms and travel have no influence on traits.

Why was it made this way in first place? This honestly just makes running fleet with civilian ships not very efficient in long run as you will have to replace your civilian ships eventually due to them amassing bad reputation. Or at least storing them at your colony for some time.
I chose a default of a 50% chance for new traits for civilian ships being negative because I try to prevent this mod (with default settings) from changing the overall difficulty of the game more than absolutely necessary. I think it's rude to publish mods that change the difficulty of games unless it's obvious or explicitly stated that it does so. So I put a lot of effort into trying to maintain balance. In spite of that, traits for civilian ships still make the game slightly easier, because you can choose to keep the ones with traits you like and sell or reset the ones with traits you dislike.

I understand why this mod might attract a lot of people who don't care whether or not it makes the game easier, but that's one of the reasons I support settings. The real problem is that those settings aren't accessible enough.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: captinjoehenry on April 18, 2021, 03:29:58 PM
Yeah, that's not ideal. Sounds like a lot of your ships are stuck in a kind of mediocrity limbo: they can't get new negative traits because they never suffer damage in battle, and they can't get new positive ones because their ratings aren't high enough to justify having 100% good traits (this only kicks in after the first three traits). I expect that this situation would be common for skilled players who are very careful to protect their ships.

Not sure I'd call this a bug, but it's certainly not ideal. I think I'll change it so that instead of allowing the first three traits to ignore the need for a suitable rating there will be a chance to allow it that diminishes based on the number of traits. That will allow ships like yours to continue to improve their perfect reputations, just at a reduced rate.

There are ways to get around it by editing the settings file, but there's no setting that allows you to only prevent this specific behavior. You might want to just increase baseRating or choose one of the "recommended option presets" from the OP.

The only way they get more than that is if they pick up a negative trait which then can get flipped to a positive one.
Flipped? Not sure what you mean.

What preset would you recommend?  The OP one?  The immersion one?  As I'm not sure which would lessen the issue.  Or should I just bump up the base rating by a good bit?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 18, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
Any of those would do the trick. Increasing baseRating to 1.0 would be the simplest method, but it means your combat ships will rarely get negative traits, if ever. Or you could wait for the patch, which I'm hoping to release tomorrow.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Euripides on April 20, 2021, 08:44:58 AM
Yes, that's normal. By default there's a flat 50% chance for new traits to be negative for civilian ships. The option to change it is "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"
Arbitrary, doesn't make sense from gameplay perspective, not very engaging or fun; just automatic debuff on civilian ships and you can't even influence it through gameplay. I'm glad this can be turned off.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Mysticunicycle on April 23, 2021, 10:19:52 PM
Hello, cool mod you have here.

After a few hours of playing, all of my logistics ships are riddled with extra fuel consumption, extra supply consumption, etc. and I have zero control over it. I assume this is working as intended, but just want to offer feedback that I think this could be improved to be more engaging. As it sits, I've been punished for no reason at all.

I don't know how the code works, only that it only considers hull damage, but this heavily favors ships that are strong finishers, and not ships that are high shield dps. My favorite ship is one that can 1v1 most ships in the game, but doesn't do so in a blaze of glory. In a big battle you'll find it shredding down shields and changing targets, and letting something else finish the first guy off. Is there a way to reward my ship, or am I just going to be stuck at a permanent -30% crew loyalty, even though my ship has never been disabled, or even hurt below like 80% hull? Personally, I don't think your crew loyalty should be able to decrease if your crew was never in danger. Why would they get upset that they didn't die, the ship remained unharmed, and you won the battle? I think there should be an equilibrium point at around 60% combat rating, and as long as your ship isn't getting its hull breached every battle, it should tend towards that point. If you do high damage / killing blows / whatever, then you tend above the equilibrium line. My flagship can't climb above 48%, even if I put it solo vs 4 or 5 small pirate scum constantly.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 25, 2021, 07:47:04 AM
Starship Legends 1.5.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Fixed famous derelicts and flagships sometimes not being recoverable after being destroyed in battle
Fixed reputation hullmods temporarily being removed from ships with no ordnance points assigned on game load
Fixed a few immersion issues:
  -The names of factions that do not appear in the intel tab are replaced with "undesignated opposing force"
  -Prevented a certain special fleet with a certain special ship from having traits
  -Prevented a certain special faction from having traits (may change once more is known)
Changed: Civilian ships no longer get traits ("traitChanceMultForReservedCivilianShips" changed from 2 to 0)
Changed: Reduced the effect of enemy fleet traits ("fleetTraitEffectMult" reduced from 3 to 2)
Changed: Doubled effect of traits that affect CR recovery rate (Industrious/Lazy Crew)
Changed several settings related to levels to compensate for lower level caps in 0.95
  -Increased "traitChanceBonusPerPlayerLevel" from 0.05 to 0.15
  -Increased "traitChanceMultPerPlayerCaptainLevel" from 0.005 to 0.02
  -Increased "traitChanceMultPerNonPlayerCaptainLevel" from 0.01 to 0.04
Changed: Flattened the number of traits enemy fleets could get
  -Commanders will now grant 2 traits to their fleet at level one, plus one trait for every two additional levels
  -(Previously it was one trait per level)


Note 1: This is not the promised overhaul. It's just a patch to improve what I can without making any major/risky changes.

Note 2: After a great deal of testing, I've determined that the occasional discrepancies between damage sustained reported by starship legends and damage actually sustained is likely only caused by certain types of damage, like friendly fire and collision damage. I don't think those types of damage should count for the purpose of ratings anyway, so I no longer consider this a known issue.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 25, 2021, 08:16:55 AM
Hello, cool mod you have here.
Glad you think so!  ;D

Personally, I don't think your crew loyalty should be able to decrease if your crew was never in danger. Why would they get upset that they didn't die, the ship remained unharmed, and you won the battle? I think there should be an equilibrium point at around 60% combat rating, and as long as your ship isn't getting its hull breached every battle, it should tend towards that point. If you do high damage / killing blows / whatever, then you tend above the equilibrium line.
It basically already works this way. With default settings ships can't lose rating unless they take hull damage, and if they only get scratched their rating reductions will be proportionally insignificant.

My flagship can't climb above 48%, even if I put it solo vs 4 or 5 small pirate scum constantly.
Yeah, the combat rating system is BS because it punishes inexperienced players and makes the game even easier for vets. The idea is for people to adjust the settings to suit their desired difficulty, but people shouldn't have to much about in settings files. I want this mod to work well "out of the box" for everyone, but I've got a lot of work to do before that's feasible. At this point I'm pretty sure I'm just going to retire this version, call it legacy, and rebuild the mod in a way that doesn't require a combat rating system.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arcagnello on April 25, 2021, 08:19:19 AM
Hello Sundog! Just dropping by to say I just grabbed the new update (works like a charm) and that I've been enthustiastically slapping this mod of yours into my modded campaigns every time I finished the obligatory vanilla campaigns after every patch! Also...

Suggestion time!
Have you thought about the concept of giving AI fleets (could only be done for Bounties and/or significantly sizeable fleets) their very own Commander, with a number of skills ranging from 5 to 15 to match the player?

You could even apply some incredible customization to various "faction commanders" for every faction to be even more distinct from the others. Could the game handle this or would slapping commanders on ships break the game in some way? I could think of Special Modifications screwing with the Autofit...

Then again, imagine how amazing this would be. Given the fact every "commander" would at least have 5 combat skills to match the other officers, a Hegemony commander could have 10 skills in leadership, tritach with 5 technology and 5 leadership (or maybe even 10 in technology, hello TT using automated ships!) Luddic Path commander with 5 industry and 5 leadership (oh sweet Ludd, derelict contingent in a pather fleet that has 5 dmods on every ship, that could give me a heart attack) and I could go on indefinetly!

Hm, it does feel very complicated to implement now that I really ponder this. Would it be possible to just copy the commander skills and then just paste them as "fleetwide" buffs into enemy fleets as a workaround?

Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 25, 2021, 08:35:31 AM
Hello Sundog! Just dropping by to say I just grabbed the new update (works like a charm) and that I've been enthustiastically slapping this mod of yours into my modded campaigns every time I finished the obligatory vanilla campaigns after every patch!
;D

Have you thought about the concept of giving AI fleets (could only be done for Bounties and/or significantly sizeable fleets their very own Commander, with a number of skills ranging from 5 to 15 to match the player?
Doesn't vanilla already do this? I'm honestly not entirely sure specifically how commanders work under the hood. Either way, it seems like something like this is a bit outside the purview of this mod, although I do like the idea of further differentiating factions.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arcagnello on April 25, 2021, 08:39:07 AM
Hello Sundog! Just dropping by to say I just grabbed the new update (works like a charm) and that I've been enthustiastically slapping this mod of yours into my modded campaigns every time I finished the obligatory vanilla campaigns after every patch!
;D

Have you thought about the concept of giving AI fleets (could only be done for Bounties and/or significantly sizeable fleets their very own Commander, with a number of skills ranging from 5 to 15 to match the player?
Doesn't vanilla already do this? I'm honestly not entirely sure specifically how commanders work under the hood. Either way, it seems like something like this is a bit outside the purview of this mod, although I do like the idea of further differentiating factions.

I'm quite sure vanilla fleet "commanders" are just a humble officer when it comes to actual combat, sometimes with 7 skills instead of the maximum 6. I never noticed the telltale signs AI of Fleets having  Leadership/Technology/Industry skills of their owm.

If you fought a Luddic Path horde whose "commander" had Derelict Contingent (and possibly also Crew Training) trust me, you would have noticed real quick.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Mysticunicycle on April 25, 2021, 10:31:44 PM
I would be careful of doing this. AI fleets can already field tons of officers (much more than the player), and it seems like the AI officer level is usually 7, where as the player can only create level 5 officers by default. I've seen over 20 officers in an AI fleet before. Adding a lot of fleet skills on top of officers who are already better and more numerous than the player would quickly make every battle feel like david v goliath.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arcagnello on April 26, 2021, 01:28:41 AM
I would be careful of doing this. AI fleets can already field tons of officers (much more than the player), and it seems like the AI officer level is usually 7, where as the player can only create level 5 officers by default. I've seen over 20 officers in an AI fleet before. Adding a lot of fleet skills on top of officers who are already better and more numerous than the player would quickly make every battle feel like david v goliath.

I imagine officer spam is going to be addressed soon enough, they already made some "duct tape" fixes like reducing the max ECM penalty, showing they indeed do know the issue exists.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SCC on April 26, 2021, 01:39:51 AM
At least contact bounties can have fleet skills, since they always have derelict contingent.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arcagnello on April 26, 2021, 02:52:55 AM
At least contact bounties can have fleet skills, since they always have derelict contingent.

That's..uh..entirely new to me, I guess game mechanics really do fly under the radar when they're not mentioned, don't they? Thanks for clarifying SCC!

That's great news if you want to go that way and integrate some Commander Skills into the list of traits (as vanilla already does it with one skill, under the metaphorical bed sheets), maybe in a separate list that goes along the lines of "In addition to what this fleet is generally known for, the Fleet Commander also contributes by [...].

What Mysticunicycle says stands correct tough (great name by the way!), Adding a set of Commander Skills to an already present set of "Fleet Traits" would definetly cause this mod to make the game harder, much harder until the Officer Spam is adressed.

I've already suggested a slight rework of the "out of bounds" fleets where instead of spamming officers ad-infinitum, the game would strengthen the AI fleet by installing integrated hullmods (starting from the bigger ships/the ones with officers) instead, at a "two s-mods per officer above the 10 officer limit" rate.

That said, Commander skills also include one skill to raise max officer level from 5 to 6 and their elite skills from one to two plus an alternative one raising the maximum number of officers from 8 to 10. Integrating this into the mod would actually result in the officer playing field being further balanced into the middle. It's just a speculation tough.

I'm starting to think that integrating (most of the) Commander Skills (for AI fleets to use) into an already wonderfully functional mod like this one may be too much meat on the fire. It would honestly work better as a mod of its own.


Forgive me for suggesting it in the first place, this suggestion would be like trying to staple a rocket launcher or a machinegun in the back of a toyota pickup truck...no wait that's already happening...uh...it would be like bolting an anti tank howitzer to a young, beautiful and incredibly graceful stallion!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 26, 2021, 07:38:40 AM
I'm starting to think that integrating (most of the) Commander Skills (for AI fleets to use) into an already wonderfully functional mod like this one may be too much meat on the fire. It would honestly work better as a mod of its own.
That's basically how I feel about it.

Forgive me for suggesting it in the first place, this suggestion would be like trying to staple a rocket launcher or a machinegun in the back of a toyota pickup truck...no wait that's already happening...uh...it would be like bolting an anti tank howitzer to a young, beautiful and incredibly graceful stallion!
Hah! Great analogies, but there's nothing to forgive. Further differentiating factions is a worthy goal, and feedback/suggestions are almost always useful, even when they don't result in direct changes. In this case it's just a lot more complex than it seems on the surface, especially when mod factions are taken into consideration.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Skullywag on May 01, 2021, 03:22:14 PM
It seems crew loyalty can still go down even though a ship was not hurt hull wise in a fight if they didnt do much and got a below 0.5 combat rating, which seems completely wrong to me. For example (yes its overkill) but a captial ship going up against a small pirate band (3 or 4 small ships) on its own will probably end up with something like a 0.3 shift to the positive, this results in a chance of a negative impact on crew loyalty.

I literally just watched my capital (who got wrecked in an earlier fight so had insubordinate crew) fight his way through a few fights to get back to "doubtful" through careful management in a few fights then drop back down to "insubordinate" when he murdered 4 pirate destroyers and got a 0.3+ to his CR.

Can i fix this in the settings file somehow, this section maybe:
# OFFICER LOYALTY #
   "enableOfficerLoyaltySystem":true,
   "improveLoyaltyChanceMult":0.5,
   "worsenLoyaltyChanceMult":1.0,
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IonDragonX on May 01, 2021, 03:31:49 PM
@Sundog
Is it possible to make this mod less powerful percentage-wise but almost always positive? Other than have a defeat or a ship destroyed, I'd like to cut out the setbacks that 'feel' undeserved just for flying around the sector.

Sounds like you'll want to reduce "globalEffectMult" below 1 and increase "baseRating." Not sure what you mean about just flying around the sector. You mean civilian ships earning traits from non-combat XP? I disabled that entirely in the last patch, but you can set "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" to 1 to only get good traits from peaceful XP.
Thanks, Dude! Much appreciated!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 01, 2021, 07:01:04 PM
It seems crew loyalty can still go down even though a ship was not hurt hull wise in a fight if they didnt do much and got a below 0.5 combat rating, which seems completely wrong to me.
That's no good. Unfortunately that can't be fixed by editing settings. I'll make sure it's not a problem in the next patch.

Is it possible to make this mod less powerful percentage-wise but almost always positive? Other than have a defeat or a ship destroyed, I'd like to cut out the setbacks that 'feel' undeserved just for flying around the sector.
Sounds like you'll want to reduce "globalEffectMult" below 1 and increase "baseRating." Not sure what you mean about just flying around the sector. You mean civilian ships earning traits from non-combat XP? I disabled that entirely in the last patch, but you can set "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" to 1 to only get good traits from peaceful XP.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 03, 2021, 05:11:25 PM
Starship Legends 1.5.3 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Fixed not checking sMods (hullmods made permanent with story points) when considering trait compatibility
Changed: Made a few trait/hullmod combinations incompatible (for example, shield traits are now incompatible with Shield Shunt)
Changed: Ship strength estimates are now based on deployment points rather than recovery cost
Changed: Loyalty can no longer be reduced unless a ship takes sufficient hull damage in battle. Less damage is required at higher loyalty levels
Added "considerNormalHullmodsForTraitCompatibility" setting (false by default)
Added a new, complicated, optional method of estimating ship strength (disabled by default)
   - Base strength estimate is based on adjusted fleet points (FP) rather than deployment recovery cost
   - sMods, dMods, and captain skills may be taken into consideration when estimating the strength of ships
   - Player level may be taken into consideration when estimating the strength of player ships
   - Eight new settings have been added to support this, along with a precise description of how strength is estimated in the settings file
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Pratapon51 on May 15, 2021, 09:43:31 PM
While fortunately it's pretty easy to tweak the ini to one's liking, I can't help but feel that ships that rely on armor/hull tanking - low tech and similar-doctrine mod ships - get shafted by the defaults, which is yet another malus to that category of ships as they quickly pile up negative traits from what ought to be 'routine' combat.  :D

Any thought to tinkering the defaults to account for that, maybe allowing specific modifiers for manufacturer/techline?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 16, 2021, 07:27:23 AM
That's been brought up a few times in the past. My opinion about it is that if a ship class tends to take more hull damage on average than most ships of similar DP, then it's a balance problem with the ship. Ships that can regenerate hull damage are an exception, and they do get reductions to how much hull damage contributes to rating reduction on a case-by-case basis.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Piston on May 20, 2021, 04:37:12 AM
Hey so I'm a pea brain when it comes to tweaking .ini files. What I did was I took the "Recommended Option 'Presets'" and pasted the "unlimited power" at the bottom of the file, though it didn't work on my campaign as negative traits are still showing up though I can't say I'm surprised as I didn't know where to put it in the first place. Just a quick tip would be very much helpful thanks~

"also a question, does changing the .ini mid campaign even work?"
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2021, 08:44:30 PM
Changing the settings .ini mid campaign will work just fine. It refreshes each time you load the game. However, changing some settings may lead to unexpected results.

It sounds like what's going wrong is that there are two entries for each setting you changed, since you pasted all of the settings changes to the end. This means one of the entries will be ignored, and I suspect it's the ones that are further down in the file. The "correct" way to do it is to replace the value of each setting. So, for example changing this line:
Quote
"ignoreAllMaluses":false,
to this:
Quote
"ignoreAllMaluses":true,

I'm not certain it will work, but you could also try pasting the altered settings at the top of the file instead of the bottom.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Piston on May 24, 2021, 04:33:28 PM
Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Havoc on May 26, 2021, 08:32:19 AM
hi, is it possible to reset the stats?
I've tried the mothballing for 10,20, and 30 days+, still had all perks and quirks

I have
24% faster overload duration

10% durability
-5% speed( I would like to remove this, or all)

If the mothball reset would work, would I get the same perks on next legends "levelup"?
my first perk was faster overload recovery

Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Cirevam on May 26, 2021, 10:23:19 AM
If mothballing doesn't work, you can use the Console Commands mod to remove all traits. Make sure your character is piloting the ship in question, then open the console and type "removetraits". You can also manually add or remove specific traits. If you want to remove a single trait, like Dutiful Crew, type "removetraits dutiful crew" and it will remove only that one.

You will not get the same perks on the next levelup. To guarantee it, add the traits you want manually, while keeping in mind that the Evans-Zhao score (whatever it's called) has an effect on how powerful each trait is. If you wanted the +10% armor trait, adding eight traits to a ship that has never seen combat will not give you that 10%; it will be at 7% or 8%. This has been my experience with manually adjusting traits.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on May 29, 2021, 03:55:19 PM
is there any way to apply this mod to enemy ships?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kenshkrix on May 29, 2021, 05:10:33 PM
is there any way to apply this mod to enemy ships?
It already does this, unless you turn it off in the settings.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on May 29, 2021, 07:09:35 PM
oh, cool. handnt noticed any fleets with the mod other than the event ones, guess i gotta look better
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SpaceDrake on May 29, 2021, 07:21:48 PM
Oh, it absolutely does. God help you if you decide to engage in hell-war with the Hegemony for the sake of Kadur in a Nex game, for example. Some of those expedition fleets can get absolutely monstrous with Fame-level bonuses applied.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on May 29, 2021, 09:16:02 PM
funny you should say that... i JUST got out of a hell of a bloody mess with them for exactly that. had to use every ship i had, most were destroyed, and wasnt actually sure i was even gonna win until the last moments.

edit - although, that none of the ships i scavenged had famous or noteworthy is kinda why i made this post.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 30, 2021, 12:15:34 AM
the Evans-Zhao score (whatever it's called) has an effect on how powerful each trait is. If you wanted the +10% armor trait, adding eight traits to a ship that has never seen combat will not give you that 10%; it will be at 7% or 8%. This has been my experience with manually adjusting traits.
Hey, thanks for helping Havoc! This part, though, is incorrect. The effect of traits are adjusted only by tier and loyalty, never combat rating. By default, notable, well-known, famous, and legendary traits multiply effects by 5, 6, 7, and 8, respectively. Loyalty can worsen or improve those multipliers by up to 2.

edit - although, that none of the ships i scavenged had famous or noteworthy is kinda why i made this post.
The only way to salvage ships with pre-existing reputations is through the famous flagship/derelict events. I may add similar events in the future, but I don't plan on adding notable ships to enemy fleets without a narrative reason to do so (and a way to inform players about what the ship's traits are)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on May 30, 2021, 12:24:35 AM
hey, i just finished a real big battle, and i didnt get the post battle report nor did i get any of your effects applied after. is this normal when you dont have your own captain in the fight?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 30, 2021, 12:30:53 AM
Starship legends typically ignores auto-resolve battles, but it shouldn't ignore normal battles in which you didn't deploy your flagship.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on May 30, 2021, 12:56:49 AM
yeah, it wasnt auto resolve. was actually on of your missions actually. getting a legendary ship, which was also a bounty apparently. think that is the first time i've noticed that. edit - i didnt tranfer command, if that might be a factor. just let my ships run on auto while i just watched.

i was gonna make a comment about enemy ships not having rep perks was unfair, until i realized you give enemy fleets equivalent bonuses.

as an aside, mebbe give yer legendary ships a chance to have 1-3 built in mods. make them a bit more... novel.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Freakycrafter on June 02, 2021, 12:54:30 PM
Hey, could you perhaps add a different config option for different trait amounts?
Now, at first this might seem like I didn't even look at the config file, since you can actually change the amount of traits per tier there, but what I mean is, could you add an option, so that you could theorethically get ALL traits to legendary tier for example? I've toyed around with the config file a bit and it seems if you set the traitsPerTier variable too high you wont ever be able to get legendary ships or even just famous or well known ones (I usually play with only positive mods, low actual modifiers and lots of traits per tier).
You could add an option so that, instead of having x traits per tier you'd have x traits in total which'd all have a chance of leveling up, (whether or not the ship has the max amount of traits,) that way you could technically have a legendary ship with all it's traits in the legendary tier.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on June 02, 2021, 04:10:12 PM
hey sundog, would adding the notable changes, or a link to the battle report, to the status screen after a battle? or is that something that would require a lot more effort than it could be worth?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 02, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Hey, Freakycrafter, thanks for the suggestion and welcome to the forum! Unfortunately there's no way to configure the mod that way, and changing it so that it could be would require fairly drastic changes to the code, meaning I would inevitably introduce new bugs if I tried. Sorry I couldn't give you better news! What you could do is edit the values of "effectMult" and "traitChancePerXp" for each tier to be the same. That way the only difference between each tier would be the name.

as an aside, mebbe give yer legendary ships a chance to have 1-3 built in mods. make them a bit more... novel.
You're referring to the ships you can get from famous derelict/flagship missions? If so, it's on my to-do list  :)
(Just don't expect them to be the right/ideal s-mods for the ship)

hey sundog, would adding the notable changes, or a link to the battle report, to the status screen after a battle? or is that something that would require a lot more effort than it could be worth?
Not sure what you mean by status screen. The encounter dialog screen?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stormy Fairweather on June 02, 2021, 04:37:26 PM
ye, the post battle screen. almost never manage to catch the battle report from the system view afterwards before it disappears, then i have to bring up intel and find it to see what stat changes the last battle caused. fairly petty, but it is something i love to look over and is a pain in the ass clicking though a couple screens to get to it.

as an aside; with how much stronger [redacted] is in this patch, maybe tweak your difficulty settings to be a little more forgiving when facing them. i changed the default 0.5 multiplier you have to 0.7 which might be a little TOO forgiving, but it does feel bad winning a battle against a dangerous fleet only to be saddled with penalties for the effort.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Shrugger on June 08, 2021, 03:14:16 AM
The download link target seems to be offline.
Edit: Github seems to be having trouble.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 08, 2021, 04:05:28 PM
Thanks for the heads-up! Seems to be working again, at least for me. Anyone else having any trouble?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SpaceDrake on June 23, 2021, 10:41:56 AM
Nope, although I'm noticing something else now, and have suspected it for a bit: I don't think ships with High Intensity Lasers are calculating their combat contribution correctly (and/or the Diable Avionics Maelstrom isn't calculating it right).

Just now, I used my HIL Mael to smash up multiple Luddic cruisers. On almost any other ship, this absolutely would have counted for >100% combat contribution, since on both the large cruisers the Mael and its laser very clearly did most of the work. However, the final battle report only listed the Mael's contribution at around ~50%... which also made for a hilarious BR, since my fleet evidently killed multiple cruisers, destroyers and frigates without a single ship scoring more than 50% of their own value and a number barely contributing at all. :V (The Mael in fact killed several times its own value in ships.)

I should try and do a bit more testing to see if it's the ship or the weapon at fault, but it's definitely noticeable and doesn't seem to happen with other weapon systems.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: jonesy123 on July 06, 2021, 09:17:53 AM
Hi, I'm interested in using the mod but I have a few questions:
- I would like it to be more dependent on the ships' performance in battles without removing the combat rating system (as I assume that's what the Better Immersion settings do) while also allowing civilian ships to get reputation changes without needing to enter battle.
- Can I change the config settings without breaking my save file? I'd be fine with just fine-tuning the settings over time as I don't entirely understand the config values yet.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 06, 2021, 03:36:24 PM
Starship Legends 1.5.4 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Fixed defending a station through the "consider your military options" dialogue resulting in a broken battle where you attack the station instead


Hi, I'm interested in using the mod but I have a few questions:
- I would like it to be more dependent on the ships' performance in battles without removing the combat rating system (as I assume that's what the Better Immersion settings do) while also allowing civilian ships to get reputation changes without needing to enter battle.
- Can I change the config settings without breaking my save file? I'd be fine with just fine-tuning the settings over time as I don't entirely understand the config values yet.
Hey, sounds like you want the "better immersion" settings, except without changing "showCombatRatings" to false. Ratings will be tracked and displayed, but they won't influence your ships in any way. By default, the reputation of civilian ships has a chance to grow whenever you earn XP from anything other than battle, so you shouldn't need to worry about anything there (although there's a 50% chance to get a bad trait this way, which a lot of people hate. "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" can be edited to change this)
I did my best to make sure the config could be changed mid-game without issues, and I don't recall anyone reporting it causing issues, but no guarantees!

I don't think ships with High Intensity Lasers are calculating their combat contribution correctly (and/or the Diable Avionics Maelstrom isn't calculating it right).
I can't think of a way calculation could be broken by the HIL or Maelstrom. I tried fighting a battle with a HIL equiped Maelstrom and got the kind of results I'd expect. The rating system often doesn't work the way people expect and/or want it to, so I suspect this is just another case of that.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Rohzdear on July 07, 2021, 07:45:41 AM
Does Starship Legends still use a special .ini Configuration file for when you're also using Ruthless Sector? I have them both since I saw Ruthless Sector finally updated, but Starship Legends doesn't come with the optional .ini aymore.

And speaking of configuration options: Do you think it would be possible to add an optional formula for calculating Combat Rating and Crew Loyalty that is based on Crew deaths instead of Hull damage? The issue is that whenever you have a ship that mostly deals flux damage (while other ships are in charge of DPS) and the ship's hull gets barely scratched the combat rating eventually drops and the crew become insubordinate to their captain, forcing me to Mothball it just for it to occur again.
This is especially troublesome with certain mod ships like Junkers who rely on massive Hull Points instead of Shields on Armor, so even though barely or none of their crewmembers die their morale still takes a dive during every encounter.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 07, 2021, 05:51:18 PM
Does Starship Legends still use a special .ini Configuration file for when you're also using Ruthless Sector?
Nope

Do you think it would be possible to add an optional formula for calculating Combat Rating and Crew Loyalty that is based on Crew deaths instead of Hull damage?
Crew deaths are based on hull damage, so that would just result in a more complicated version of the same calculation. The only way to fix the combat rating system is to remove it.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Rohzdear on July 07, 2021, 07:20:45 PM
Crew deaths are based on hull damage, so that would just result in a more complicated version of the same calculation. The only way to fix the combat rating system is to remove it.
Yeah, that much I figured, but there are certain Skills (Salvaging, Damage Control) and Hullmods (Blast Doors, Recovery Shuttles, etc.) that directly help reduce Crew Deaths regardless of Hull Damage sustained during Combat and non-combat operations, which I think makes sense would directly affect Crew Morale much more than just the ship being damaged.

I must admit I don't know how Automated Ships with AI captains behave with the mod. Do they still get Crew Morale and Specializations regardless of their non-human nature, or are these things disabled for them? I always thought the direct buffs from the ship's reputation were representative of how the crew's experience improved the ship, so I'm not sure how AI ships are affected by this.

Thanks for your quick response either way.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: MeinGott on July 08, 2021, 12:39:19 PM
Dear Sundog, I have a feedback for this mod, perhaps you will find it usefull:
My flagship has a hullmod that regenerates HP during battle. The ship took major pounding but emerged victorious. After battle StarshipLegends decided it took over 100% of damage and surely performed badly, thus negative combat rating. Clearly it was the other way around and the ship performed admirably. I understand it treated the ship as if destroyed, counting HP lost, and ignoring regained.
I hope you will deem it worth fixing. Thank you
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 08, 2021, 05:57:57 PM
I must admit I don't know how Automated Ships with AI captains behave with the mod. Do they still get Crew Morale and Specializations regardless of their non-human nature, or are these things disabled for them?
It works the same way, functionally. The only difference is that traits are renamed for crewless ships.

Thanks for your quick response either way.
Sure  :)

My flagship has a hullmod that regenerates HP during battle. The ship took major pounding but emerged victorious. After battle StarshipLegends decided it took over 100% of damage and surely performed badly, thus negative combat rating. Clearly it was the other way around and the ship performed admirably. I understand it treated the ship as if destroyed, counting HP lost, and ignoring regained.
I hope you will deem it worth fixing. Thank you
There's a list for ships that regenerate hull that reduces effects of hull damage by a specific percentage for each ship. Sometimes ships aren't included, or their reduction isn't enough because each ship needs to be evaluated and added to the list on a case-by-case basis. Unfortunately, that's the best solution I've managed to come up with. The only real solution (as with most complaints about this mod) is to remove the combat rating system entirely.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Hahaheho on July 12, 2021, 08:43:57 PM
Can one ship potentially gets ALL types of bonuses/maluses as its increse its reputation? Can it's bonuses increases over time, say from 5-10%?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SpaceDrake on July 12, 2021, 09:58:33 PM
The strength of the ship's bonuses increase with its fame, yes.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: KadathCS on August 06, 2021, 08:15:21 AM
Hi Sundog,

I was looking at the code to try and understand the captain loyalty system and it seems there's an area with a possible bug. Would you prefer I mention it here or on github? Would like your feedback on it to better understand that section of the code and validate my understanding.

Thanks
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 06, 2021, 04:34:19 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum! We can talk about it here. Or Discord (Sundog#3161). I only really use github when I create a new release for something.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: KadathCS on August 06, 2021, 08:12:19 PM
Hey, welcome to the forum! We can talk about it here. Or Discord (Sundog#3161). I only really use github when I create a new release for something.

Thanks!

Really liked your mod and wanted to try it and out, and I wanted to have more control over the captain loyalty.

So, I was looking at this segment of code:
https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/blob/c4f55b26a9fd1900b4073333eb44042c013ac7b6/src/starship_legends/CampaignScript.java#L403-L430

From what I'm understanding, the success is calculated on line 410, however, when you enable the USE_RATING_FROM_LAST_BATTLE_AS_BASIS_FOR_BONUS_CHANCE option, it recalculates the odds and takes into account the IMPROVE_LOYALTY_CHANCE_MULT and WORSEN_LOYALTY_CHANCE_MULT settings. However, the success chance is not reevaluated with regards to the new loyaltyAdjustChance. It seemed to me that a recalculation of the success was in order, but wanted to double check that I wasn't missing something.

Thanks once again!
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 06, 2021, 10:51:52 PM
Oh, god... I should've known it'd be a question about that method. Are you a CS student? Because that's a great example of how not to write a method/function. Pretty sure most of the bugs this mod has ever had have been caused by mistakes I've made in that method's code, and this is no exception. You're absolutely right about this being a bug. The "improveLoyaltyChanceMult" and "worsenLoyaltyChanceMult" settings have no meaningful effect. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

One thing to note: IMPROVE_LOYALTY_CHANCE_MULT and WORSEN_LOYALTY_CHANCE_MULT are taken into account even when USE_RATING_FROM_LAST_BATTLE_AS_BASIS_FOR_BONUS_CHANCE is false. That IF statement has another condition on the line below.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: KadathCS on August 07, 2021, 08:14:30 PM
I used to be a CS student, been a developer for a while now though. However, I did not want to make assumptions: either success needed to be recalculated or the options are no longer meaningful, and I wasn't sure which was your intention. I was hoping those options could remain as I wanted to make use of them ;)

Besides, I'm not here to critique code!  :-X
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 08, 2021, 08:49:06 AM
Gotcha. The CS in your name had me curious. I'll probably fix those settings at some point, but I'm planning to overhaul many aspects of this mod in a way that will obsolete them. Not sure which will come first
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zalpha on September 02, 2021, 09:26:29 AM
"Please in form the mod author" ... so here you go.

These are parts of a ship from HMI mod, I think the core or front is covered and works as it should. Seems weird for each part to have an effect but I personally think it is cool if it did because well, how often would get to use a lot of effects on one ship for each part.

Hull ID:
hmi locomative fighter left          Ship ID: 27185
hmi locomative gun left              Ship ID: 2714b
hmi locomative fighter right        Ship ID: 271af
hmi locomative gun right            Ship ID: 271dd
hmi locomative fighter rear         Ship ID: 2720f

(ID seems to change? I don't know... but I think they randomly changed for some reason. It was confusing to get them all)

Registered: False (for all)

There are other parts that I am not sure about mentioned in the game, these are the ones I found in the HMI game folder.

hmi_locomotive_core
hmi_locomotive_front
hmi_locomotive_under

Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: hickok on September 13, 2021, 12:24:21 AM
Bug report, the enemy fleet commander bonuses don't seem to actually apply to the enemy fleet. There are some hull integrity and armor traits displayed but when you actually look at the ships they don't actually get the bonuses.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 13, 2021, 11:12:15 AM
Well, crap. I'll get a patch out once I figure out what's going wrong. Thanks for pointing that out!
Edit: Actually, it looks like this problem only occurs in games where no player ship has ever gained reputation, so I don't think it warrants an emergency patch, since it only has a minor effect on the first battle.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 13, 2021, 04:19:57 PM
@hickok: Are you seeing that bug in a new save, or a save that previously didn't have starship legends running? It looks like this problem only occurs in games where no player ship has ever gained reputation. Could you confirm that that is the case on your end as well?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: hickok on September 13, 2021, 10:25:09 PM
@hickok: Are you seeing that bug in a new save, or a save that previously didn't have starship legends running? It looks like this problem only occurs in games where no player ship has ever gained reputation. Could you confirm that that is the case on your end as well?

I see, yes, I just added the mod! After playing for a while you are indeed as you explained. Thanks for the hard work  :)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 14, 2021, 04:54:04 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RainmanUSMC on September 24, 2021, 11:40:15 AM
"Please in form the mod author" ... so here you go.

These are parts of a ship from HMI mod, I think the core or front is covered and works as it should. Seems weird for each part to have an effect but I personally think it is cool if it did because well, how often would get to use a lot of effects on one ship for each part.

Hull ID:
hmi locomative fighter left          Ship ID: 27185
hmi locomative gun left              Ship ID: 2714b
hmi locomative fighter right        Ship ID: 271af
hmi locomative gun right            Ship ID: 271dd
hmi locomative fighter rear         Ship ID: 2720f

(ID seems to change? I don't know... but I think they randomly changed for some reason. It was confusing to get them all)

Registered: False (for all)

There are other parts that I am not sure about mentioned in the game, these are the ones I found in the HMI game folder.

hmi_locomotive_core
hmi_locomotive_front
hmi_locomotive_under

 I have the same issue on the Vayra_Caliph super dreadnought, the front left and right, back left and right, and engine left and right have the same errors, they show as being well known but then has an error message about not being registered.

Front left 312f4
Front right 313a2
rear left 313d5
rear right 3140c
engine left 3143b
engine right 31472
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 24, 2021, 08:49:27 PM
Ah, thanks for spelling that out for me! I'll check it out when I get the chance.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RainmanUSMC on September 25, 2021, 05:18:22 AM
No problem, I'm going to do some testing to see if it has the same issue with other modular ships.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RainmanUSMC on October 02, 2021, 05:19:33 AM
Now I'm getting an odd error when trying to save my games without doing save and exit. I get this ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null when I look at the starsector log file.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2021, 06:04:15 PM
Thanks for letting me know. Think I could get the last 100 or so lines of the log after that error occurs?
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RainmanUSMC on October 04, 2021, 06:19:07 PM
Ya sure can, standby

Spoiler
44596773 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 34
44596773 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 35
44596794 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 36
44596794 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 37
44596794 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 38
44596794 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager  - Loading stage 39 - last
44609963 [Thread-3] INFO  ruthless_sector.CampaignScript  - Reload Penalty: 0.0
44611698 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Jeresh: 957.48755
44611698 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Brazimua: 674.7549
44611698 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. O Toka: 565.66583
44611698 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Yamaros' Work: 509.95844
44611698 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Naimur: 510.9562
44611698 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Kaliya: 627.61536
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Rosas: 259.19733
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Elgard: 348.57974
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Azad: 78.6716
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Montblanc: 265.78558
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Ulysseia: 587.2858
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Kochab: 231.92111
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Parnassos: 244.4776
44611699 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Robinson's Moon: 122.47231
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. New Guaya: 340.2718
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Gull Motley: 238.50557
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Third Bogota: 76.32165
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Black Mass: 175.90678
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Heimos: 522.8255
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Koman-tong: -146.03615
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Arkady: 499.4566
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Anzha: 72.163185
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Paperclip: 376.73145
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Inda: -117.75478
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Granminster: 539.79486
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Carcassonne: 180.53407
44611700 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Mucalinda: 324.3282
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Rukh: 824.5357
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Siren: 94.01248
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Grens: 407.2683
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Binsutu: 586.74255
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Shedim: 448.1269
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Zatar: 237.63065
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Tlalost Legila: 672.1717
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Kiten: 399.76044
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Ranau: 102.7585
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Sumatra: 297.78052
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Familiar: 147.93303
44611701 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Sessho-seki: 139.7849
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Pair: 319.44083
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Rotanna: 167.66516
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Gorilous: 368.70364
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Zabala: 289.54214
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Sar: 296.71332
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Honshu Post: 208.29234
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Accretion Mantle: 367.89365
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Guaya L4 Dock: 272.89944
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Vlaandom Command: 49.400253
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Tuyul L4 Mantle: 116.93003
44611702 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Ulysse Habitat: 623.38513
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Dyriad's Nest: 306.19672
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Ultima Astrid Wall: 519.95215
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Aquitaine Port: 423.70132
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Chlorr Habitat: 425.33295
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Devil's Command: 207.06
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Pomora Port: 110.13861
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Ultima Astrid Mantle: 241.63406
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Mara L5 View: 910.11017
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Yav Customs: 123.74048
44611703 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Breya Base: 238.1982
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Bastet View: 5.6860633
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. San Martin Mantle: 7.7209406
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Rain Post: 310.1408
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Milfeulle Habitat: 683.6101
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Horza Orbital: 92.83008
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Hastur Customs: 316.02588
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Milinbu L4 HQ: 386.34268
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. New Conclave Quey: 408.15332
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Myriad Port: 491.3476
44611704 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Nibiru Dock: 135.23167
44611705 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. New Conclave Orbital: 165.3708
44611705 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Murder Wall: 304.68835
44611705 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Komana Command: 255.56245
44611705 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Youdu: 27.395512
44611705 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  -    Wanted fleet size vs. Tuyul L4 Mantle: 108.36648
44611705 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  - Spawning invasion fleet for Legio Infernalis; source Accreter-Hkere; target Tuyul L4 Mantle
44611705 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.invasion.InvasionIntel  - Creating invasion intel
44611706 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.fleets.InvasionFleetManager  - Deducting 21600.0 invasion points for Invasion: Tuyul L4 Mantle
44611706 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.specialforces.SpecialForcesManager  - No market found to spawn special task force for hegemony
44611708 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.rebellion.RebellionIntel  - Updating rebellion on Black Mass: day 72
44611708 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.rebellion.RebellionIntel  -   Stability: 0.0
44611708 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.rebellion.RebellionIntel  -   Initial force strengths: 37.698742, 5.7683163
44611708 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.rebellion.RebellionIntel  -   Government engagement strength: 7.4809723
44611708 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.rebellion.RebellionIntel  -   Rebel engagement strength: 2.585275
44611708 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.rebellion.RebellionIntel  -   Updated force strengths: 37.814262, 5.1494827
44611708 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.rebellion.RebellionIntel  -   Conflict intensity: 7.473721
44611806 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.specialforces.SpecialForcesIntel  - Picking task for Kadur Remnant task group
44611912 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.intel.specialforces.SpecialForcesIntel  - Picking task for Kim's Fleet
44611952 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.intel.SurveyPlanetMissionIntel  - Created SurveyPlanetMissionIntel: Hlidskjalf, faction: independent
44612417 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetRouteManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 5.0 for market [Samothrace]
44612419 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.MiscEventsManager  - Fleet spawned: VIC Grand Investment Fleet
44613162 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.plugins.ExerelinModPlugin  - Before game save
44613162 [Thread-3] INFO  ruthless_sector.ModPlugin  - Reload Penalty Adjustment: 0.0 + -0.003311574
44613171 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    com.fs.starfarer.loading.specs.HullVariantSpec.getModuleSlots(Unknown Source)
    starship_legends.Util.removeRepHullmodFromVariant(Util.java:294)
    starship_legends.Util.removeRepHullmodFromAutoFitGoalVariants(Util.java:83)
    starship_legends.ModPlugin.beforeGameSave(ModPlugin.java:176)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 05, 2021, 06:37:31 PM
Thanks! Looks like this error shouldn't cause any actual problems, other than one of the autofit variants you created having a starship legends reputation as a hullmod (the error occurs when starship legends fails to remove it). Hopefully I'll get a chance soon to release a patch for this, along with a few other issues. Appreciate your help!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 11, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Starship Legends 1.5.5 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Fixed the chance for loyalty changes not being calculated correctly:
    - The "improveLoyaltyChanceMult" and "worsenLoyaltyChanceMult" settings are no longer ignored
    - High loyalty now makes further loyalty improvements less likely, and loyalty reductions more likely
    - Low loyalty now makes further loyalty reductions less likely, and loyalty improvements more likely
Fixed: Damage taken by the new variants of the excelsior are no longer taken into consideration by rating calculations
Fixed enemy fleet traits not having any effect if no player ship has ever earned a trait
Fixed reputations not propagating to ship modules properly
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: 0451 on November 28, 2021, 09:25:52 AM
Enjoying the mechanics so far, always felt that there's not enough low-level progression, besides buying new ships.
However, mod forces it's own "hightech-ish" playstyle, when you have to avoid getting hull hits as much as possible and use shields.
It's pairs poorly with low-tech/specialized hull tanking fleet compositions. I see my hull and armor as a resource at the first place, and some modded ships do a great job at balancing your intentional ship damage and shield usage (Almost all arkgenesis ships are essentially upscaled conquests, with huge damage output and great flux stats but puny shields. And i love them.). All the damage i deal in a battle is essentially nullified by my own hull damage, and long-range missile support ships progress much faster and have better stats than my flagship, since they never lower the shields.
There's nothing more rewarding than destroying a vessel twice of your size in a fair battle, while masterfully balancing flux and health stats, but mod severely punishes such behavior.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 28, 2021, 01:51:38 PM
Thanks for the feedback! Next major update won't have a combat rating system at all (at least by default). If you like, you can reduce damageDealtMult in the config to make it less punishing for ships to take damage.
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on November 29, 2021, 08:30:27 PM
Not that you necessarily need more trait ideas, but it might be reasonable to have trait options for plus-or-minus to ammunition stores - given existing skills/hullmods, I'd think capping out at ±40% for missile ammunition and ±20% for non-missile ammo would probably be about right.

(It would also, for energy weapon heavy hulls, be interesting to have a trait for ammunition regeneration rate, too, though that'd probably be best kept relatively weak - maybe one of the traits that caps out at 10%?)
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: thestalker on December 10, 2021, 12:25:13 PM
Hey uh mod maker. Don't mean to be a pain in the ass but your mod aint working on the newest update. Not cause it's broken but because of a text error

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813186488480038982/918961532887498793/unknown.png
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IonDragonX on December 10, 2021, 01:25:49 PM
Hey uh mod maker. Don't mean to be a pain in the ass but your mod aint working on the newest update. Not cause it's broken but because of a text error
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/813186488480038982/918961532887498793/unknown.png)
1) Go to the mod folder
2) Open the mod_info notepad file
3) Change the part that says 0.95.0a-RC15 into 0.95.1a-RC3
4) Profit??
Title: Re: [0.95a] Starship Legends 1.5.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 11, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
1) Go to the mod folder
2) Open the mod_info notepad file
3) Change the part that says 0.95.0a-RC15 into 0.95.1a-RC3
4) Profit??
Yup! That should work for now until I can get a patch out (hopefully in a matter of hours)

@thestalker: Thanks for letting me know, and sorry about the trouble!
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 11, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
Starship Legends 1.5.6 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Compatible with previous versions

Updated compatibility to Starsector version 0.95.1a
Fixed a version checking issue that prevented loading with Starsector 0.95.1
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: planeswalker on December 14, 2021, 06:32:54 PM
Thanks for updating this mod, i have a odd question. Does a Valkyrie count as a combat or a civilian ship? Also if a civilian ship have militarised subsystems does is it still a civilian ship? What makes a ship count as a combat or civilian ship for the purposes of being forced to be in combat to start gaining traits?

I haven't touched starsector for more than two years now and i'm trying to get up to speed with all the new changes in base game and the mod. TY
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 15, 2021, 07:38:08 PM
Valkyries are civilian. Militarization doesn't change whether or not a ship counts as civilian. I honestly don't know if there's a clear-cut in-game way to determine whether or not a ship counts as civilian. Generally, any ship you might consider deploying in combat is not considered civilian, even if it has a civ grade hull (e.g. Venture)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: planeswalker on December 18, 2021, 05:12:11 AM
Valkyries are civilian. Militarization doesn't change whether or not a ship counts as civilian. I honestly don't know if there's a clear-cut in-game way to determine whether or not a ship counts as civilian. Generally, any ship you might consider deploying in combat is not considered civilian, even if it has a civ grade hull (e.g. Venture)

I see thanks, reason why i ask is that in early game fleets, i would use ships like Valkyries and Geminis to 'add more meat' to my battle line while my actual fighting ships do the killing. So i guess not using them in combat would earn them traits etc in this mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: phampanvn1998 on December 20, 2021, 08:51:24 PM
this is not a very good mod tbh.
This mod only rewards you for picking easy fight and punish player for fighting strong enemies. Like my fleet just attacked the corona hypershunt, the hardest fight they fought yet. 80% of my fleet went down just to kill one tesseract, leaving me only 1 capital ship with 4 condors providing fighter support. Against all odd, my capitals survived and managed to get on top with 60% hull intact, yet when the battle is over the crew lost faith in my officer commanding my capital ship?
So basically, you are more likely to become legendary for killing miners flying converted cargo ships with guns, than actually completing legendary feats?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ali on December 21, 2021, 07:13:56 AM
Just to say this is 1 of my top & essential mods!

Love that it is so customisable to suit individual tastes and really hope it continues to be updated to work with future versions of Starsector!

Thanks so much! :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 21, 2021, 09:24:23 AM
Thanks for the words of encouragement!  ;D
I plan to keep all my mods (except ICE...) up to date until Starsector is officially released/published as a 1.0 version (at the very least), so I wouldn't worry that. I'm currently in the process of overhauling and testing this mod and ruthless sector.

Not that you necessarily need more trait ideas, but it might be reasonable to have trait options for plus-or-minus to ammunition stores - given existing skills/hullmods, I'd think capping out at ±40% for missile ammunition and ±20% for non-missile ammo would probably be about right.

(It would also, for energy weapon heavy hulls, be interesting to have a trait for ammunition regeneration rate, too, though that'd probably be best kept relatively weak - maybe one of the traits that caps out at 10%?)
Hey, sorry for taking so long (like a month??) to get back to you. I've been mulling over these suggestions. My main reservation is with granularity/rounding issues, especially for modifying ammo capacity. Most small vanilla missile weapons would need a boost of at least +34% capacity to see any benefit, which seems like it might be a tad excessive. My main concern with ammo regen is not having a clear way to communicate that "+5% ammo regeneration rate" only applies to weapons that already regenerate ammo. In spite of my misgivings, however, traits like this would be cool, so I'm going to implement them anyway. Just don't be surprised if they get axed during playtesting or due to feedback or some crazy modded weapon I'm not aware of.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on December 21, 2021, 10:32:45 AM
Hm, those are reasonable concerns.

...I wonder if you could address the granularity issue with something like "for low-ammunition weapons, this instead manifests as a chance to gain +1 ammunition at the start of a battle". Might be excessively tricky to implement, but would also mean you could have the missile ammunition boost be a bit smaller than 40% max (a value I picked specifically to grant that +1 shot to three-shot missile racks.)

Well, if they don't work out, then they don't work out, but I'll be interested to play with them when you add them regardless.

Edit: And I'd just like to add that, honestly, I'm glad you're taking the time to think things over - as not-the-mod-author, I can afford to just toss out random ideas without having to really think through whether or not they're truly good ones. >.>
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 21, 2021, 01:00:08 PM
Am I so out of touch?... No. It is the crew who are wrong.
(https://i.imgur.com/50AAXom.png)
[close]

...I wonder if you could address the granularity issue with something like "for low-ammunition weapons, this instead manifests as a chance to gain +1 ammunition at the start of a battle". Might be excessively tricky to implement, but would also mean you could have the missile ammunition boost be a bit smaller than 40% max (a value I picked specifically to grant that +1 shot to three-shot missile racks.)
That could work, but there would be no good way to communicate it since trait descriptions need to be so short. In spite of being a bit messy, I think it's better to just allow the granularity quirks.

Edit: And I'd just like to add that, honestly, I'm glad you're taking the time to think things over - as not-the-mod-author, I can afford to just toss out random ideas without having to really think through whether or not they're truly good ones. >.>
I've done that to Alex on more than one occasion  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ali on December 24, 2021, 09:56:06 AM
Heya,

Please can someone advise what setting i need to adjust to ensure that a positive trait gained is always at it highest / best setting?

I'm looking at ""bonusChanceRandomness":0.05" and not sure if i need to change it or if i do what to change it to?

Cheers
Al
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 25, 2021, 08:47:31 AM
You want to make it more likely that ships will get positive traits? If so, you might want to just change "ignoreAllMaluses" from false to true. You could also increase "baseRating" and/or "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" if you still want negative traits to be possible
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IonDragonX on December 25, 2021, 09:38:50 AM
You want to make it more likely that ships will get positive traits? If so, you might want to just change "ignoreAllMaluses" from false to true. You could also increase "baseRating" and/or "bonusChanceForCivilianShips" if you still want negative traits to be possible
Doesn't this also boost the enemies?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 25, 2021, 09:43:24 AM
Nope. Only thing that controls the ratio of good/bad traits for NPC fleets is this:
Quote
   # ENEMY FLEET TRAITS #
   "averageFractionOfGoodTraits":0.75,
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Oni on December 30, 2021, 02:13:19 PM
Does anyone else have this odd situation where every fight you send a ship into it always gets a bad trait?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IGdood on January 08, 2022, 09:02:13 PM
My frigates keep getting destroyed in AI hands late-game and stack up a lot of negative traits.  GOod thing about the mothballing to reset them all though
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Versil on January 13, 2022, 05:01:38 AM
encountered an error
Spoiler
6284505 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - [sifter_drone_obj_wing] is not a valid fighter wing id
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.updateVariantIfNeeded(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.init(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.prototype.Utils.String(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oo0O.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oo0O.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.??O000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.showFleetInfo(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.showFleetInfo(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.showFleetIn fo(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:2262)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.pullInNearb yFleets(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:561)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.init(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:333)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.SalvageDefenderInteraction.e xecute(SalvageDefenderInteraction.java:232)
    starship_legends.campaign.rulecmd.SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction.execute(SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction.java:32)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:106)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:51)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:106)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:51)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:57)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:177)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:210)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo$1.super(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.B.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.?00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.B.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 13, 2022, 06:44:20 AM
Hey, thanks for reporting this! So this one actually isn't my fault, even though starship legends is blaming itself. What happened is that starship legends overrode the vanilla code that handles domain drone encounters (and a few others), and then it invokes the vanilla code that it overrode, which is where the error occurred.

What went wrong is that the fleet you were getting ready to fight contained an invalid fighter wing id (sifter_drone_obj_wing), so when it tried to look up that wing in order to display it (in the top-right panel where it shows the ships in your fleet and the enemy's) it encountered the error.

It's likely that one of your mods that adds more wings to remnants or domain drones added the invalid wing id. Hope that helps you find a solution!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Tipnick on January 13, 2022, 06:46:26 AM
I have the same crash and when I do search for sifter drone in mods folder, I get HMI indicated.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 13, 2022, 06:04:44 PM
I'm not getting anything when I use "ls -recurse *.* | sls -pattern sifter_drone_obj_wing" in HMI/data/
Maybe it was fixed?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Tipnick on January 13, 2022, 07:18:08 PM
I'm not getting anything when I use "ls -recurse *.* | sls -pattern sifter_drone_obj_wing" in HMI/data/
Maybe it was fixed?
I am using latest version of HMI 0-3-4k. Sifter drone crash appears when I am exploring distant system and a stalking fleet approaches. If I come to meet it and see who they are, the game crashes indicating sifter_drone.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 13, 2022, 07:26:43 PM
Ah, ok. I see that you've already posted the error in the HMI thread, so hopefully we'll find out what the cause is soon!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Tipnick on January 13, 2022, 07:30:54 PM
Ah, ok. I see that you've already posted the error in the HMI thread, so hopefully we'll find out what the cause is soon!

Good to hear, sir!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: heh on January 15, 2022, 10:39:40 AM
2377505 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - [sifter_drone_obj_wing] is not a valid fighter wing id
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.updateVariantIfNeeded(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.init(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.prototype.Utils.String(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oo0O.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oo0O.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.??O000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.showFleetInfo(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.showFleetInfo(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.showFleetIn fo(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:2262)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.pullInNearb yFleets(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:561)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.init(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:333)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.SalvageDefenderInteraction.e xecute(SalvageDefenderInteraction.java:232)
    starship_legends.campaign.rulecmd.SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction.execute(SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction.java:32)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:106)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:51)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:106)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:51)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:57)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:177)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:210)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo$1.super(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.B.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.?00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.B.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

got this error when i tried interacting with a derelict mothership
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Tyrant11 on January 15, 2022, 03:49:38 PM
2377505 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - [sifter_drone_obj_wing] is not a valid fighter wing id
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.updateVariantIfNeeded(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.init(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.fleet.FleetMember.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.prototype.Utils.String(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oo0O.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.oo0O.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.??O000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.K.<init>(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.showFleetInfo(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.showFleetInfo(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.showFleetIn fo(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:2262)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.pullInNearb yFleets(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:561)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.init(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:333)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.SalvageDefenderInteraction.e xecute(SalvageDefenderInteraction.java:232)
    starship_legends.campaign.rulecmd.SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction.execute(SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction.java:32)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:106)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:51)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.Object.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:106)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:51)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:57)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:177)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:210)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo$1.super(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.B.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.?00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.B.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.Q.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

got this error when i tried interacting with a derelict mothership
It is HMI problem, because shifter drone is from their derelict ship
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: lyravega on January 16, 2022, 02:38:54 AM
Hello! My civilian ships (tanker, cargo, salvager etc...) that do not get deployed in combat are yet to acquire any traits. I've had them for like 15 in-game cycles, and I've probably explored 33% of the map. Checking the .ini file, I see this:

Code
"traitChanceMultForCivilianShips":0.0,

Is this the thing I need to alter? If so, what should I put in there?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2022, 06:39:44 AM
That's correct. The old default value for that setting used to be 2.0, so that should be a good place to start. You might also want to increase "bonusChanceForCivilianShips." The reason I disabled trait gains for civilian ships was because so many people were complaining about the 50% chance to get negative traits.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: lyravega on January 16, 2022, 09:14:16 AM
That's correct. The old default value for that setting used to be 2.0, so that should be a good place to start. You might also want to increase "bonusChanceForCivilianShips." The reason I disabled trait gains for civilian ships was because so many people were complaining about the 50% chance to get negative traits.
If it bothers me, I guess I'll alter the mentioned .csv files for the logistic ships, and make logistics related stuff only appear on logistic ships so it'll still add some flavour =) Thank you for the reply!

By the way, I'm running with a small fleet, and small ship losses happen all the time, sometimes I also lose my capital but still manage to win the battle. Small support ships dedicated to PD or harassment, or long-range soft-flux / EMP ships that don't really deal good amount of damage seems to accumulate all the bad stuff, with the way I play. Is it possible to include shield or EMP damage somehow? If not, can you recommend an ideal CR calculation setting that clamps the ranges a little bit for a pyrrhic victory, or suggest another setting that I might have overlooked?

Aside from that, I'm looking at the source, and I see this function:
Code
static void calculateBattleRatings(float difficulty)
I assume this bit is where we alter CR calculation from the settings file. "battleDifficultyMult" is set to 0.0 by default, so battle difficulty is not considered at all. I was planning to alter the code to help support ships to a degree, mainly negating a good portion of the damage taken through the battle difficulty itself somehow. May I alter these for personal use?

And lastly, two settings that I don't understand. "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"; I assume this is the 50% chance for civilian ships to get negative traits that you mentioned, correct? Setting this to 0.75 as an alternative for example, would it make civilian ships get the good stuff 75% of the time? "useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance"; this one I have no idea though. Does this mean a very bad ship with extremely low ratings will never have a chance to redeem itself or something like that?

Sorry for bombarding you with questions :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2022, 10:34:48 AM
Is it possible to include shield or EMP damage somehow? If not, can you recommend an ideal CR calculation setting that clamps the ranges a little bit for a pyrrhic victory, or suggest another setting that I might have overlooked?
It's not possible to include non-hull damage, but you could increase the "supportMult" setting. It is also based on hull damage, but it evenly distributes rating between all of your ships, regardless of how much damage they did individually. You might want to reduce "damageDealtMult" to compensate.

Aside from that, I'm looking at the source, and I see this function:
Code
static void calculateBattleRatings(float difficulty)
I assume this bit is where we alter CR calculation from the settings file. "battleDifficultyMult" is set to 0.0 by default, so battle difficulty is not considered at all. I was planning to alter the code to help support ships to a degree, mainly negating a good portion of the damage taken through the battle difficulty itself somehow. May I alter these for personal use?
Of course. Feel free to share your edits as well, if you like.

And lastly, two settings that I don't understand. "bonusChanceForCivilianShips"; I assume this is the 50% chance for civilian ships to get negative traits that you mentioned, correct? Setting this to 0.75 as an alternative for example, would it make civilian ships get the good stuff 75% of the time?
That's exactly right.

"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance"; this one I have no idea though. Does this mean a very bad ship with extremely low ratings will never have a chance to redeem itself or something like that?
It's basically an old legacy setting. It makes it so that the only combat rating that's considered when choosing new traits is the one from the most recent battle, instead of the combined total rating.

Sorry for bombarding you with questions :)
No worries! I've found that questions are one of the most useful forms of feedback. Helps me figure out what's too unclear or confusing.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: lyravega on January 16, 2022, 07:33:10 PM
Is it possible to include shield or EMP damage somehow? If not, can you recommend an ideal CR calculation setting that clamps the ranges a little bit for a pyrrhic victory, or suggest another setting that I might have overlooked?
It's not possible to include non-hull damage, but you could increase the "supportMult" setting. It is also based on hull damage, but it evenly distributes rating between all of your ships, regardless of how much damage they did individually. You might want to reduce "damageDealtMult" to compensate.

Thanks! I was wondering if it was possible since the battle report mods keeps track of these as well. Though, in theory, you can deal infinite amounts of shield and EMP damage, so keeping track of it might screw up with the calculations on the long run anyway.

"useRatingFromLastBattleAsBasisForBonusChance"; this one I have no idea though. Does this mean a very bad ship with extremely low ratings will never have a chance to redeem itself or something like that?
It's basically an old legacy setting. It makes it so that the only combat rating that's considered when choosing new traits is the one from the most recent battle, instead of the combined total rating.
Ahh, I see. If I'm not mistaken, the CR of a ship essentially means how many of the traits will be positive, correct? I believe the OP said something like that. If this setting is turned on, it'll basically override that behaviour in other words, correct?

By the way, after a battle, is it normal for a ship to gain a negative trait with 0 hull damage taken? 2 battles ago, I gained a positive trait. The next battle, I neither gained nor lost any CR, yet one of my positive traits got replaced with a negative one. Am I correct to assume that only one trait can be gained / replaced per battle, and in my case as on the first battle granted the ship a new trait, the next battle replaced a positive with negative due to its CR; trying to come to the balance?

Aside from that, I'm looking at the source, and I see this function: *** I assume this bit is where we alter CR calculation from the settings file. "battleDifficultyMult" is set to 0.0 by default, so battle difficulty is not considered at all. I was planning to alter the code to help support ships to a degree, mainly negating a good portion of the damage taken through the battle difficulty itself somehow. May I alter these for personal use?
Of course. Feel free to share your edits as well, if you like.
Will do! I will try to include battle difficulty without messing up with the default CR calculation ranges you've set up; "-0.35" to "0.75". Are these percentages? Back to the topic, "supportMult" feels like "battleDifficultyMult" if I'm not mistaken, assuming you destroy every single enemy and not allowing any to retreat, is that correct? I'm asking this to avoid double-dipping when altering the code.

I've recently engaged [REDACTED] and lost one of my capitals, 2 of my frigates, and my last capital won the battle with 1% hull remaning (I did not cheat I swear :D). Everyone lost like 7-9% CR, however these [REDACTED] ships are extremely powerful for their FP value, need to figure out something for that separately I think.

Anyway, thanks for all the answers and of course, for the mod again!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2022, 09:55:03 PM
Thanks! I was wondering if it was possible since the battle report mods keeps track of these as well. Though, in theory, you can deal infinite amounts of shield and EMP damage, so keeping track of it might screw up with the calculations on the long run anyway.
It's certainly possible to track types of damage other than hull damage from a technical standpoint. However, when I was a tween I played a game called Tactics: Ogre, a tactics rpg similar to final fantasy tactics. It was a pretty neat game, with some interesting features. For example:
You might see where this is going. Naturally, I set up a training session between two characters that would last forever due to low damage and high healing on both sides, automatically. Then I left the game running overnight. Then I turned both characters into absurdly overpowered weapons that trivialized the rest of the game. So that's why only hull damage is counted.

Ahh, I see. If I'm not mistaken, the CR of a ship essentially means how many of the traits will be positive, correct? I believe the OP said something like that. If this setting is turned on, it'll basically override that behaviour in other words, correct?
Correct.

By the way, after a battle, is it normal for a ship to gain a negative trait with 0 hull damage taken? 2 battles ago, I gained a positive trait. The next battle, I neither gained nor lost any CR, yet one of my positive traits got replaced with a negative one. Am I correct to assume that only one trait can be gained / replaced per battle, and in my case as on the first battle granted the ship a new trait, the next battle replaced a positive with negative due to its CR; trying to come to the balance?
Traits don't get replaced by other traits. After battle a ship may gain a trait, lose a trait, or have two traits switch places. I think what happened in this case is that a neg trait changed places with a pos one, which is typically how traits adjust to match the ship's rating.

I will try to include battle difficulty without messing up with the default CR calculation ranges you've set up; "-0.35" to "0.75". Are these percentages?
It's not important that those totals add up to anything in particular. They're just multipliers for how much different things affect combat rating.

Back to the topic, "supportMult" feels like "battleDifficultyMult" if I'm not mistaken, assuming you destroy every single enemy and not allowing any to retreat, is that correct? I'm asking this to avoid double-dipping when altering the code.
Yeah, they're very similar. supportMult is basically the newer version of battleDifficultyMult. I would suggest only using one or the other.

I've recently engaged [REDACTED] and lost one of my capitals, 2 of my frigates, and my last capital won the battle with 1% hull remaning (I did not cheat I swear :D). Everyone lost like 7-9% CR, however these [REDACTED] ships are extremely powerful for their FP value, need to figure out something for that separately I think.
Heh, yup. It used to be even worse. The strength of remnant ships is actually calculated differently than other ships to bring them more in line.

Anyway, thanks for all the answers and of course, for the mod again!
;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: lyravega on January 16, 2022, 10:26:31 PM
Thanks! I was wondering if it was possible since the battle report mods keeps track of these as well. Though, in theory, you can deal infinite amounts of shield and EMP damage, so keeping track of it might screw up with the calculations on the long run anyway.
It's certainly possible to track types of damage other than hull damage from a technical standpoint. However, when I was a tween I played a game called Tactics: Ogre, a tactics rpg similar to final fantasy tactics. It was a pretty neat game, with some interesting features. For example:
  • You could forge special swords by sacrificing one of your characters, imbuing the weapon with that character's soul. The power and attributes of the weapon were derived from the character's level and traits.
  • You could set up training sessions, pitting your characters against each other to level them up until either side was defeated.
  • You could heal during combat, including training sessions.
  • You could set your characters to act automatically during combat.
You might see where this is going. Naturally, I set up a training session between two characters that would last forever due to low damage and high healing on both sides, automatically. Then I left the game running overnight. Then I turned both characters into absurdly overpowered weapons that trivialized the rest of the game. So that's why only hull damage is counted.
Last game I did something similar was Kenshi. Though I usually set the game speed to absurd levels through Cheat Engine to avoid leaving the computer on overnight :D

I will try to include battle difficulty without messing up with the default CR calculation ranges you've set up; "-0.35" to "0.75". Are these percentages?
It's not important that those totals add up to anything in particular. They're just multipliers for how much different things affect combat rating.
It's not important, but as far as balance goes, you set those numbers up in that way for a reason. Don't want to upset the intended mod balance, so to speak :) For enemy fleets though, I set the maximum trait numbers to a higher level. Do the negative traits for enemy fleets also get multiplied by the "fleetTraitEffectMult"?

I've recently engaged [REDACTED] and lost one of my capitals, 2 of my frigates, and my last capital won the battle with 1% hull remaning (I did not cheat I swear :D). Everyone lost like 7-9% CR, however these [REDACTED] ships are extremely powerful for their FP value, need to figure out something for that separately I think.
Heh, yup. It used to be even worse. The strength of remnant ships is actually calculated differently than other ships to bring them more in line.
What about the other [REDACTED]?
Spoiler
Omega things
[close]
? I should check the source files a bit more when I get back home :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2022, 11:04:29 PM
Do the negative traits for enemy fleets also get multiplied by the "fleetTraitEffectMult"?
[snip]
What about the other [REDACTED]?
Yes and yes
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zuthal on January 21, 2022, 04:18:04 PM
With the intended 2.0.0 changes, why are the ammo-related traits restricted to ships with energy and missile mounts? Even in vanilla, there is now an ammo-using ballistic weapon in the Thumper, and lots of mods also add ammo-using ballistic weapons.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 21, 2022, 09:14:31 PM
I just don't think Thumper (and thermal pulse cannon maybe?) are enough to justify such traits. And I don't want to rely on people having mods with certain content in order for this mod to work properly. I'll lift the restriction if there are ever enough vanilla ballistic weapons that rely on ammo.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zuthal on January 22, 2022, 05:24:58 AM
I just don't think Thumper (and thermal pulse cannon maybe?) are enough to justify such traits. And I don't want to rely on people having mods with certain content in order for this mod to work properly. I'll lift the restriction if there are ever enough vanilla ballistic weapons that rely on ammo.

That does make sense, yeah.

Pretty sure TPCs are internally classified as energy weapons. And there are, if I didn't miscount... 10 modular weapons that go into energy slots in vanilla that use ammo.

As a compromise, would it be possible to make that restriction adjustable via a config setting, so that people who have mods that add lots of ammo-using ballistic weapons can turn it off for themselves?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 22, 2022, 05:59:44 PM
As a compromise, would it be possible to make that restriction adjustable via a config setting, so that people who have mods that add lots of ammo-using ballistic weapons can turn it off for themselves?
Not via the config, no, but it will be possible to lift the restriction by editing /sun_sl/data/traits.csv
You'll just need to remove the "SYNERGY" tag from the rows that start with ammo_regen and ammo_capacity. Just make sure not to leave behind any stray commas!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: liliyn on February 12, 2022, 12:59:04 AM
Are the traits supposed to work like this? I'm getting bad traits every time I play a battle

(https://i.imgur.com/QupIWrg.png)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 13, 2022, 10:36:21 AM
Yes. Any time a ship loses at least 1% of its rating there's a chance of it earning a negative trait. It won't work this way in the upcoming major update (which I'm hoping to release soon)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 14, 2022, 11:14:39 PM
Starship Legends 2.0.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
NOT compatible with previous versions!

I released the first version of Starship Legends almost 3 years ago, and this is the first save-breaking update that removes features. Notably, the entire combat rating system has been gutted, and I will not be maintaining an alternate version that includes it. I apologize for the inconvenience and the removal of features that some of you may have enjoyed, but this is the most practical way forward that I could come up with. There has been a lot of great feedback that, until now, I've essentially been forced to ignore due to the limitations of the combat rating system and the entire premise of ships earning traits based on combat performance. With this update, I've done my best to consider all of the suggestions and feedback I've received so far to create something that works well out-of-the-box for more people (without them having to muck around with a complicated configuration file).

Major Changes:
   Overhauled the underlying structure of the mod due to extensive changes, meaning this version is not save compatible with previous versions
   Completely removed the combat rating system (My apologies to those of you who liked it, but it was too much of a mess...)
   The traits ships earn are now predetermined based on their unique ID
   With default settings, ships will have between 1 and 4 negative traits by the time they are legendary
   New events allow traits to be adjusted (and sometimes turned from bad to good by sacrificing loyalty)
   Ship reputations may no longer be reset by extended mothballing (now they would just earn the same traits again anyway)
   Ships now accrue XP (hidden by default) toward new traits and loyalty instead of being based on chance
   Loyalty is no longer reduced due to hull damage, instead, two tiers of loyalty is lost whenever a ship is disabled
   Traits now come in pairs, and are unlocked in such a way that the best pairs are unlocked last
   The next pair of traits that haven't been unlocked yet can be seen in the reputation hullmod tooltip ("Rumored traits")
   When loyalty is "Insubordinate" or below, the maximum CR of the ship will be reduced. Removing the captain is a valid remedy to this problem
   Loyalty may now go as low as "Mutinous," and, temporarily, as high as "Inspired"
   Many settings have been added to and removed from the options file
   Settings are now re-loaded each time a save is loaded
Added "Inspirations": A new maximum loyalty level that procs randomly and expires after 30-120 days, depending on how much xp the ship has earned since the end of the previous inspiration
Added reputation themes: Sometimes, the traits ships earn will not be completely random, but instead based on hand-tailored probability tables
Added 7 new bar event variations allowing you to:
   Convert one of your ship's traits to a randomly selected trait of the same sign/goodness
   Sacrifice loyalty to make a negative trait positive (only if loyalty is at least "Fiercely Loyal")
   Sacrifice loyalty to remove one dmod (only if loyalty is at least "Loyal")
   Sell one of your famous or legendary ships at a premium, even if it's not currently in your fleet (must be in storage at a market, not an abandoned location)
   Hire overeager crew who will somewhat improve loyalty for one of your ships
   Hire on new officers, along with their loyal crew and noteworthy ship
   Read a short summary of the service record of one of your ships after it reaches legendary status (once per ship), granting 1 story point
Added a random intel event that allows you to convert one of your ship's traits to a randomly selected trait of the same sign/goodness
Added 2 new traits that are only available to ships that can mount sufficient missile/energy weapons:
   Large/Small Ammo Hoppers - Adjusts ammo capacity
   Rapid/Sluggish Ammo Forge - Adjusts ammo regen rate
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: IGdood on February 15, 2022, 12:04:56 AM
Well at least my suicidal Luddic ships won't have completely insubordinate crew...
But I just started.a new game.  Time to restart again haha
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 15, 2022, 12:36:54 AM
Well at least my suicidal Luddic ships won't have completely insubordinate crew...
They still will, if they're really that suicidal!
   Loyalty is no longer reduced due to hull damage, instead, two tiers of loyalty is lost whenever a ship is disabled
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: vok3 on February 15, 2022, 06:59:03 AM
The primary reason I really liked this mod was that it provided a counter to the "repeatedly blow your ships up to get 5 d-mods and reduced deployment cost" issue.  With this mod, doing that would load you up with tons of bad traits.  You could still do it, and then maybe have the ship go through an extensive history of effective combat to work off the bad traits, but there was a real cost to it and a meaningful choice involved.

If I am reading this correctly, you have now totally negated that.  Good or bad traits are fixed and not dependent on what the ship does or its history, and the only penalty for blowing a ship up is decreased loyalty, which is handled by having one suicidal officer who you switch around from ship to ship as you get each one blown up.

This specific change is very bad and outweighs all the other stuff that might be fine.  I will not be using it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Nia Tahl on February 15, 2022, 09:38:02 AM
This new system just completely *** over officered frigates, given they WILL die in mid- to lategame fleets, especially something like Vanguards. Overall it just feels like a step in the wrong direction to have stats just be preassigned rather than being a reward mechanism for building good ships and fleets. Now it's just random stats for randomness sake which just makes these permanent D-mods by another name.

Shame really
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: SCC on February 15, 2022, 09:49:48 AM
Now it's just random stats for randomness sake which just makes these permanent D-mods by another name.
...I thought this is how it always was.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Helldiver on February 15, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
Now it's just random stats for randomness sake which just makes these permanent D-mods by another name.
...I thought this is how it always was.

It wasn't for combat ships, new update works very differently from what I've already tested. I'll be staying on the previous version myself :(
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: –Phase– on February 15, 2022, 10:04:02 AM
Yeah, I'm just never updating the mod after these changes. Predetermined traits for each ship completely negates the entire appeal of the mod, the thing that made it fun to use in the first place. It was nice using the combat ratings system to determine which ships are doing best in battles and which need to be adjusted for better performance, and having the well-built ships get rewarded with good traits. This overhaul ruins that aspect completely.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Tipnick on February 15, 2022, 05:38:20 PM
Sundog, one of the charms of games like this is "lottery". Without lottery, game becomes extremely boring and unexciting.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Malhavoc on February 15, 2022, 06:14:58 PM
Oof. Yeah, no offense, but I'll be sticking to the old version as long as possible and then probably binning it when Starsector updates make it totally unusable.

The entire appeal of the mod was the combat rating system. Removing it and using a predetermined system based on IDs completely guts the mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on February 15, 2022, 08:01:48 PM
The combat rating system never worked well, in spite of my best efforts. People complained about it constantly. Anyone who wants to create and maintain a version of starship legends that includes a rating system is welcome to do so. I still like the idea of it, and I think it would be great if someone pulled it off better than I could.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: starman13 on February 15, 2022, 09:49:16 PM
People gonna complain constantly no matter what you do :p

After I tweaked the settings a lot with the previous version, I found a balance that I liked. I turned the weight of the hull damage taken way down to .3 or .35 in the rating calculation and boosted the value of support slightly. It helped so that ships that got in some damage to the enemy didn't take a huge rating hit if they got disabled but still lost some rating if they got blown up without contributing to the fight. I also lowered chance for loyalty to worsen (which it looks like we can still tweak in the new version).

I like some of the new features in the new version such as the bar events that allow switching out traits. But I also miss the rating system and the feeling that the traits are somehow related to some events that happened (even if this was basically a placebo effect).

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Oni on February 15, 2022, 10:08:54 PM
.... I also miss the rating system and the feeling that the traits are somehow related to some events that happened (even if this was basically a placebo effect).
*looks at combat Dreadnaught that got an increased cargo hold* ... very placebo.  ???

Anyway, once the other mods I'm waiting to update do so I'll try this in my new game. See how it goes.

Any concerns about the mentioned fragility of frigates? Besides regularly shuffling officers.

Also, how does it choose what bonuses a ship will get? Armament slots?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: starman13 on February 15, 2022, 10:21:48 PM
.... I also miss the rating system and the feeling that the traits are somehow related to some events that happened (even if this was basically a placebo effect).
*looks at combat Dreadnaught that got an increased cargo hold* ... very placebo.  ???

Yeah well I also changed the settings so that the chance for logistics mods on combat ships is zero  8)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Farya on February 15, 2022, 11:00:21 PM
The combat rating system never worked well, in spite of my best efforts. People complained about it constantly. Anyone who wants to create and maintain a version of starship legends that includes a rating system is welcome to do so. I still like the idea of it, and I think it would be great if someone pulled it off better than I could.
Honestly I am more concerned with fact that ship contribution does not matter much to determine traits anymore. Maybe track some thing in and out of combat to change chances of particular trait pair to appear? Some ships could also be more weighted for some pairs. Like Ventures being tough nuts to crack.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 16, 2022, 11:28:19 AM
...I thought this is how it always was.

Previously you could also simply nuke the possibility of bad traits, which ironically seemed to work out well for officered frigates since they'd end up grabbing things like reduced crew losses and increased recovery chance from how badly they got shot up. That doesn't appear to be possible anymore.

I'll give the new version a shot but I suspect Starship Legends is going to be off the list after a couple playthroughs.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Wyvern on February 16, 2022, 12:05:05 PM
Haven't played with the new version yet, but just from reading the description, this sounds to me like a net positive change; I won't be tempted to save-scum battles (or just use console commands to delete traits I don't want), and without the battle rating component, I don't have to be quite as careful about making sure that every ship 'contributes' - something that can just survive and keep some of the enemy busy for a while is doing an important and useful job even if it never manages to do much hull damage to anything.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Szasz on February 16, 2022, 01:33:13 PM
The combat rating system never worked well, in spite of my best efforts. People complained about it constantly. Anyone who wants to create and maintain a version of starship legends that includes a rating system is welcome to do so. I still like the idea of it, and I think it would be great if someone pulled it off better than I could.
People tend to complain about things that are not the exact problem of theirs.
Yes, I still remember my flagship getting a negative trait for legendary rank at 100% rating.
Was the existence of the combat rating system to blame? No, only some aspects of it.
I'll give this new version a chance, it could be good.
Thanks for your hard work that you put into perfecting the mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on February 16, 2022, 08:34:10 PM
Any concerns about the mentioned fragility of frigates? Besides regularly shuffling officers.
Yeah, the loyalty system is overly punishing to frigates and scrap fleets, and I would like to address that if I can find a good way to do it. Generally, my feeling is that these are problems caused by the base game moreso than the mod, but starship legends does exacerbate both issues. I've started a list of ideas to consider for addressing each problem, so I'm very open to suggestions on the topic.

Also, how does it choose what bonuses a ship will get? Armament slots?
The pool of traits that a ship may earn are still determined in much the same way as previous versions. Armament slots are one of the considerations for some traits, particularly weapon related ones. Generally, I try to prevent traits that have little to no effect on the ship (e.g. shield traits on phase ships), but which traits are better for which ships isn't a consideration.

Haven't played with the new version yet, but just from reading the description, this sounds to me like a net positive change; I won't be tempted to save-scum battles (or just use console commands to delete traits I don't want), and without the battle rating component, I don't have to be quite as careful about making sure that every ship 'contributes' - something that can just survive and keep some of the enemy busy for a while is doing an important and useful job even if it never manages to do much hull damage to anything.
Thanks for pointing out some of the positives! I think a lot of the disappointment is understandable, and I can't say I wasn't expecting objections, but it's still a bit disheartening...

Thanks for your hard work that you put into perfecting the mod.
;D Ah, if only there were such a thing as perfect...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: IGdood on February 16, 2022, 10:32:00 PM
Perhaps make a separate system for frigates that is more lenient? 

I don't expect a legendary Blitzer patrol craft to solo a battleship or even a cruiser but perhaps frigates can get traits that just make them harder and harder to kill (ECCM, dodging, very very accelerated shields)

Most of my frigate casualties occur during first contact when they're not on escort duty.  They overextend, get caught, then die as they try to retreat to the main battle line.  Especially Wolves. 
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: captinjoehenry on February 16, 2022, 11:20:05 PM
I’ve been enjoying the new version myself :).  One thing you might consider is change the penalty based off of ship size?  Or maybe deployment points?  Maybe a mix of both?

As DP cheap frigates sort of live to die and tend to be used that way.  While super frigates you largely expect to make it through a whole fight alive.  Same applies to a lesser extend with destroyers.  Cruisers and capitals though are probably more or less ok with the current system as I think generally if one of your capitals dies it’s a big deal especially super caps.  And cruisers you’d usually expect to survive an entire fight so if one dies I think in the majority of situations taking a rep hit on the cruiser makes sense.

Another potential addition is adding more in space events or post battle events for ships that have been doing really well?  Or just something along those lines where you can improve your ships traits outside of being in a bar
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Zalpha on February 17, 2022, 02:20:05 AM
Thank you for the effort you put into this mod and keeping it updated. I like the old system but willing to give the new one a try. I used to play mod only giving me only positive effects. So I am a noob like that. I will be trying this out as it is and see how it goes, because before it was pretty much cheating but it was fun like that for me. I have been thinking of playing the game on a more harder setting and not using this mod with only positive effects like I used too is one way of doing that.

Anyway, haters are going to hate. Although I am with them in that I loved the old system, it did have it's problems, but then so does this new way of doing things. I don't know, you are doing what you can we all appreciate that, honestly, you didn't have to create this mod or even share it with us or even more so keep it up to date. Despite the complaints, we love you for what you have given us, thank you! 
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: IGdood on February 17, 2022, 02:53:19 PM
Ran into an error out of nowhere where the game goes "Starship Legends has run into an error, please let mod author know"

Tried to click out of it, kept repeating.  Had to Alt+ F4 out of game.

Null error.

Spoiler

18127109 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.Trait.isRelevantFor(Trait.java:230)
    starship_legends.RepRecord.getDestinedTraitsForShip(RepRecord.java:411)
    starship_legends.RepRecord.progress(RepRecord.java:553)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.growRepForPeacefulXp(CampaignScript.java:106)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.advance(CampaignScript.java:460)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

18127277 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.Trait.isRelevantFor(Trait.java:230)
    starship_legends.RepRecord.getDestinedTraitsForShip(RepRecord.java:411)
    starship_legends.RepRecord.progress(RepRecord.java:553)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.growRepForPeacefulXp(CampaignScript.java:106)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.advance(CampaignScript.java:460)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

[close]
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 17, 2022, 10:04:00 PM
Starship Legends 2.0.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Not save compatible with versions older than 2.0.0

Fixed an error that could occur when ships without ship systems earn new traits
Fixed an incompatibility issue with versions of Ruthless Sector prior to 1.3.0
Reduced default frequency of famous flagship story events somewhat ("famousFlagshipIntel" setting from 1.5 to 1.0)


Ran into an error out of nowhere where the game goes "Starship Legends has run into an error, please let mod author know"
Thanks for reporting this! The patch fixes it
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on February 17, 2022, 10:43:14 PM
Thanks for the ideas and feedback, guys! Added a few things to my list of things to consider and experiment with once I get the chance.

Thank you for the effort you put into this mod and keeping it updated. I like the old system but willing to give the new one a try.
Thanks!  ;D
I did try too keep an element of rewarding well-designed and well-commanded ships with the loyalty system, so I'm hoping some people who liked the combat rating system will find it to be an adequate substitute in spite of its simplicity.

Anyway, haters are going to hate. Although I am with them in that I loved the old system, it did have it's problems, but then so does this new way of doing things. I don't know, you are doing what you can we all appreciate that, honestly, you didn't have to create this mod or even share it with us or even more so keep it up to date. Despite the complaints, we love you for what you have given us, thank you! 
Whoa, now, don't get too much sap on me  ;D
I don't think there are any haters doing any hating around here... some of the people I disappointed just let me know why I disappointed them. That's useful feedback, even if I'm too thin-skinned not to be entirely unbothered by it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: dgchessman2 on February 18, 2022, 08:56:51 AM
I like what I'm seeing so far!  But I'm scratching my head and wondering if I've got a mod incompatibility... I'm suddenly getting massive lag on the Navigation map, and oddly in the Refitting screen, especially the vents.  Shift-clicking slows down to a crawl while adding or subtracting vents.

Any chance there's friction going on?

Got updates from this, from Concord, and a few others and then suddenly... wowza!  First slowdown I've seen so far  ^_^;;
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Szasz on February 18, 2022, 09:49:07 AM
Hireable officers WITH a ship is a nice change of pace (especially since the skill set seems fitting), however this allows the player to go over officer limit (since the hired officer is automatically assigned to their ship).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: starman13 on February 18, 2022, 03:37:36 PM
Hireable officers WITH a ship is a nice change of pace (especially since the skill set seems fitting), however this allows the player to go over officer limit (since the hired officer is automatically assigned to their ship).

Same thing happens in vanilla game when you get a sleeper pod officer.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Justinx931 on February 18, 2022, 03:53:50 PM
Hireable officers WITH a ship is a nice change of pace (especially since the skill set seems fitting), however this allows the player to go over officer limit (since the hired officer is automatically assigned to their ship).

Same thing happens in vanilla game when you get a sleeper pod officer.

i think if i'm reading this right you can have more pilots to use, due to the pilot being auto assigned to the ship.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Szasz on February 18, 2022, 10:48:53 PM
Hireable officers WITH a ship is a nice change of pace (especially since the skill set seems fitting), however this allows the player to go over officer limit (since the hired officer is automatically assigned to their ship).

Same thing happens in vanilla game when you get a sleeper pod officer.
No.

i think if i'm reading this right you can have more pilots to use, due to the pilot being auto assigned to the ship.
Yes, however it's as simple as hiring an officered ship at 8/8 capacity.
Note, that storing a ship clears its officer unless it is an integrated AI core.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Serenitis on February 19, 2022, 05:00:48 AM
Yeah, the loyalty system is overly punishing to frigates and scrap fleets, and I would like to address that if I can find a good way to do it.

One possibility is to use any 'damage done' the disabled ship has to 'cancel out' a portion of the loyalty loss.
So if the ship does enough damage to enemies before getting disabled, it could see no loss at all.
Deciding where that breakpoint goes though could potentially be hard. Might be worth having this as a configurable element so players can tweak it themselves.

Another possibility is to keep the current system as it is, and add in another on top of it to:
This is probably the simpler of the two approaches, and perhaps the least convoluted mechanic-wise.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: captinjoehenry on February 19, 2022, 02:54:58 PM
Also another newer feature I’ve been enjoying is listening to the bar story tellers and hear them telling a story about my ships :)  that’s a really nice touch I’ve noticed recently and it’s been really nice!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on February 20, 2022, 02:56:11 PM
I like what I'm seeing so far!  But I'm scratching my head and wondering if I've got a mod incompatibility... I'm suddenly getting massive lag on the Navigation map, and oddly in the Refitting screen, especially the vents.  Shift-clicking slows down to a crawl while adding or subtracting vents.

Any chance there's friction going on?

Got updates from this, from Concord, and a few others and then suddenly... wowza!  First slowdown I've seen so far  ^_^;;
I've heard that people have had success removing refit screen lag by updating Concord. I don't know much about Concord or how it works, but it seems likely that the reputation hullmod could confuse it somehow.
(edit: I did a simple test by installing Concord and Modern Carriers, and adding a modern carriers hullmod to a ship with a starship legends reputation. There was no slowdown in the refit screen that I could perceive, but there might be more to it)

Hireable officers WITH a ship is a nice change of pace (especially since the skill set seems fitting), however this allows the player to go over officer limit (since the hired officer is automatically assigned to their ship).
Good catch! I'll fix that up for the next version.

One possibility is to use any 'damage done' the disabled ship has to 'cancel out' a portion of the loyalty loss.
So if the ship does enough damage to enemies before getting disabled, it could see no loss at all.
Deciding where that breakpoint goes though could potentially be hard. Might be worth having this as a configurable element so players can tweak it themselves.
This would reward high damage dealers and put support ships at a disadvantage, rather than helping the types of ships/fleets that require frequent recovery.

Another possibility is to keep the current system as it is, and add in another on top of it to:
  • Reduce dis-loyalty over time
  • Reduce dis-loyalty after surviving deployment in x battles
This is probably the simpler of the two approaches, and perhaps the least convoluted mechanic-wise.
As it is now, poor loyalty requires very little xp to improve. So a ship will need to fight in many large battles to go from "loyal" to "feircly loyal," but all it takes to go from "mutinous" to "openly insubordinate" is surviving one small battle. So it's already pretty similar to the second part of your idea, but allowing low loyalty to recover over time without requiring deployment might be a good addition. I'll add that to the list.

Also another newer feature I’ve been enjoying is listening to the bar story tellers and hear them telling a story about my ships :)  that’s a really nice touch I’ve noticed recently and it’s been really nice!
Glad you like it!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Oni on March 06, 2022, 01:56:26 AM
Now that I've played a while with the new system, some thoughts:

I do like how it no longer arbitrarily gives and takes away ship qualities, and that loyal crews can eventually give you encounters to fix the ships problems.

That it randomly assigns what qualities your ship gets still kinda annoys me though, yeah I know that there are plenty of random events that let you switch them out... but it still feels like one random quality for a different random quality.

Maybe if we could get some way to direct things... maybe through those bar encounters. Like say the ship's captain (or 1st mate if we're the Captain) asks us advice on what to focus on. Depending on what we say will influence the kind qualities that'll come up.  Hmmm..

For instance, make those "Swap Quality A for Quality B = Yes or No?" events happen more rarely, but give us more influence when they do happen. Like the crew asks us if they should keep Quality A, if we say no then they ask us what they should focus on. We get a short list of general terms and we'll get something related to that choice. Like say we pick 'Flux' then the new quality will have something to do with Flux.

Anyway, something to think about. Overall though I think the new system's working perfectly well.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Yunru on March 06, 2022, 04:05:28 AM
If I wished to... ah, "Localise" this, how much is exposed for "translation"?
Spoiler
Because I'm totally not trying to recontextualise this into being Shipgirl personalities.
[close]

I seem to have hit a wall: I can't find where the text for the reputation hullmod is stored.

Update: Found it, but can't compile because (after adding a *** tonne of reference jars) "The method createSalvageDefenderInteraction() is undefined for the type ModPlugin"
What am I missing?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 06, 2022, 10:51:11 AM
That it randomly assigns what qualities your ship gets still kinda annoys me though, yeah I know that there are plenty of random events that let you switch them out... but it still feels like one random quality for a different random quality.

Maybe if we could get some way to direct things... maybe through those bar encounters. Like say the ship's captain (or 1st mate if we're the Captain) asks us advice on what to focus on. Depending on what we say will influence the kind qualities that'll come up.  Hmmm..

For instance, make those "Swap Quality A for Quality B = Yes or No?" events happen more rarely, but give us more influence when they do happen. Like the crew asks us if they should keep Quality A, if we say no then they ask us what they should focus on. We get a short list of general terms and we'll get something related to that choice. Like say we pick 'Flux' then the new quality will have something to do with Flux.

Anyway, something to think about. Overall though I think the new system's working perfectly well.
Thanks for the feedback! Generally, this mod is designed to be about working with/around random traits. The hullmods a ship has are fully controlled, so I don't want traits to just be micro-hullmods. I do see where you're coming from though, and I do think it would be cool to give people more choice when it comes to the overall trends of their ship's reputations. The type of event you suggested could work well for that, but I'll have to give some thought to how to do it properly because, thematically, traits aren't something anyone has much control over. At the very least, I'll add a console command to change the reputation themes of your ships.

If I wished to... ah, "Localise" this, how much is exposed for "translation"?
Spoiler
Because I'm totally not trying to recontextualise this into being Shipgirl personalities.
[close]
lol Hey, whatever floats your boat  ;D
Sorry I didn't make things more localization friendly!

Update: Found it, but can't compile because (after adding a *** tonne of reference jars) "The method createSalvageDefenderInteraction() is undefined for the type ModPlugin"
What am I missing?
Starship legends and ruthless sector both insert functionality into salvage defender interactions, which makes it necessary to jump through a few hoops to ensure compatibility. Starship legends overrides ruthless sector (if active), but then tells it to do its thing by creating and executing its interaction code. This happens in starship_legends.campaign.rulecmd.SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction. You should be able to compile if you include the ruthless sector jar as a dependency, just like you would for LazyLib. Ruthless sector is only required to compile though, not to use the mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Farya on March 06, 2022, 11:44:59 AM
It seems like reputation is not blacklisted correctly for some ships. I have seen some ships gaining phase related reputation traits without having anything phase related in them. Also shouldn't ships with Automated Ship hullmod be excluded from crew loyalty and crew related traits? Or at least have those renamed like in previous version.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Yunru on March 06, 2022, 12:39:22 PM
Starship legends and ruthless sector both insert functionality into salvage defender interactions, which makes it necessary to jump through a few hoops to ensure compatibility. Starship legends overrides ruthless sector (if active), but then tells it to do its thing by creating and executing its interaction code. This happens in starship_legends.campaign.rulecmd.SL_SalvageDefenderInteraction. You should be able to compile if you include the ruthless sector jar as a dependency, just like you would for LazyLib. Ruthless sector is only required to compile though, not to use the mod.
Hmm, this is what I've got for references (that line is also the only issue):
Code
    "java.project.referencedLibraries": [
        "lib/**/*.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\starsector-core\\*.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\mods\\MagicLib\\jars\\MagicLib.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\mods\\LazyLib\\jars\\LazyLib.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\mods\\GraphicsLib\\jars\\Graphics.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\mods\\Console Commands\\jars\\lw_Console.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\mods\\Nexerelin\\jars\\ExerelinCore.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\mods\\Ruthless Sector\\jars\\RuthlessSector.jar",
        "d:\\Program Files (x86)\\Fractal Softworks\\Starsector95.1\\mods\\Vayra's Sector\\jars\\VayraSector.jar"
    ],
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 06, 2022, 01:05:00 PM
It seems like reputation is not blacklisted correctly for some ships. I have seen some ships gaining phase related reputation traits without having anything phase related in them. Also shouldn't ships with Automated Ship hullmod be excluded from crew loyalty and crew related traits? Or at least have those renamed like in previous version.
Thanks for pointing out these issues!
Ships with special defense systems (like the vanguard) are considered phase ships by the game engine... It's fixed in dev.
Alternate phrasing should still be being used for automated ships. If not that's a bug. I'll look into it soon.

Hmm, this is what I've got for references (that line is also the only issue):
Are you using the most recent version of ruthless sector? Not sure what could be going wrong if so...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Yunru on March 06, 2022, 01:43:07 PM
=
Are you using the most recent version of ruthless sector? Not sure what could be going wrong if so...
That might be it! 1.2.9 isn't the latest.

EDIT: YESSSSSS! Shipgirl Legends UwU lives!
Now if only I could make it an expansion to the mod rather than having to have it as a replacement.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Ali on March 06, 2022, 02:20:07 PM
I can only have 2 traits per tier now! :(

What happened to allowing user to adjust settings the way they want? :(
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 07, 2022, 06:45:39 AM
That might be it! 1.2.9 isn't the latest.

EDIT: YESSSSSS! Shipgirl Legends UwU lives!
lol... Glad it worked!

I can only have 2 traits per tier now! :(
Yes, sorry about that. Unfortunately, I had to remove the traitsPerTier setting during the overhaul because it would've complicated some of the new code too much.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Serenitis on March 07, 2022, 07:39:07 AM
Just as a random interjection...
Changing "loyaltyLevelsLostWhenDisabled" from 2 to 1 has made playing a recovery heavy style considerably more manageable.
Crews still get upset when thier ship gets KOed, but you don't have to eat -60% CR etc. if a ship gets unlucky two battles in a row (which is trivially easy to have happen).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 07, 2022, 08:17:44 AM
Also shouldn't ships with Automated Ship hullmod be excluded from crew loyalty and crew related traits? Or at least have those renamed like in previous version.
So I tried to reproduce this issue without any luck. Automated ships in my game correctly display descriptions and trait names that are appropriate for ships with no crew. The mod checks if the minimum crew requirement is zero to decide if this should be the case. Do your automated ships require crew for some reason?

Just as a random interjection...
Changing "loyaltyLevelsLostWhenDisabled" from 2 to 1 has made playing a recovery heavy style considerably more manageable.
Crews still get upset when thier ship gets KOed, but you don't have to eat -60% CR etc. if a ship gets unlucky two battles in a row (which is trivially easy to have happen).
Yup! I'm working on improving that situation now, actually. The plan is to keep the base loyalty loss the same, but reduce it based on crew casualty reductions (from all sources) and the relative strength of the recovered ship against the strongest enemy ship.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.0.1 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Ali on March 07, 2022, 12:07:21 PM
Is there not some other way a setting can be put in to allow us to change the traits per tier?

ie, be able to have traits in 4's instead of 2's maybe?


Nevermind, got the hang of the console now to add in the traits i favour! Many thanks for giving us that option :)
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 14, 2022, 04:47:06 PM
Starship Legends 2.1.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Not save compatible with versions prior to 2.0.0

Improved various aspects of how the loyalty system works with automated ships and neural links:
     Replaced inappropriate phrasing related to loyalty and automated ships. For AI cores, loyalty is now referred to as "integration status"
     Fixed "loyalty" to AI cores being forgotten when cores were removed
     Neurally linked ships are counted as being controlled by the player for purposes of loyalty
Fixed a certain bar event from making it possible to have officers in excess of officer capacity
Fixed special defense systems (like the vanguard's damper field) being counted as phase cloaks, resulting in irrelevant phase traits (which will be replaced automatically)
Added SetRepTheme console command, granting more control over the type of traits ships get
     Note: It's pretty easy to create your own, new themes in "\Starship Legends\sun_sl\data\rep_themes"
Changed how loyalty loss works to be more forgiving to ships that are relatively weak, or intended to be recovered frequently:
     Ships lose up to two loyalty levels when disabled (as before)
     Loyalty loss is reduced based on crew loss reduction from all sources (e.g. Reiniforced Bukheads, Damage Control, Containment Procedures)
     Loyalty loss is reduced based on the ship's estimated strength compared to the strongest ship in the enemy fleet
     Added new settings to support these features
Changed: D-mods are now factored in to the strength estimation of player ships
Changed: Reduced the effects of ship system related traits by 1/3
Changed: Destroyed ships that aren't recovered are now shown on battle reports
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: zrx1000 on March 18, 2022, 11:09:32 AM
I encountered an error after the fight with the 2 nightmares guarding the Sunrider derelict from the Sunrider mod.

Spoiler
16950715 [Thread-7] INFO  sound.public  - Cleaning up music with id [battle_ambience_01.ogg]
16951111 [Thread-9] INFO  sound.public  - Creating streaming player for music with id [faction_tritach_encounter_02_hostile.ogg]
16951111 [Thread-9] INFO  sound.OooO  - Playing music with id [faction_tritach_encounter_02_hostile.ogg]
16952783 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.reportBattleOccurred(CampaignScript.java:247)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.reportBattleOccurred(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.applyAfterBattleEffect sIfThereWasABattle(FleetEncounterContext.java:792)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl$4.coreUIDismissed(FleetInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:1612)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.o0Oo$2.coreUIDismissed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.OO0O.dismiss(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.coreui.O0O0.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.?00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.V.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

16952784 [Thread-3] INFO  exerelin.campaign.StatsTracker  - Tracker tracking battle
16952788 [Thread-3] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.SunriderSalvageDefenderInter action$1  - Resetting music
16952815 [Thread-7] INFO  sound.public  - Cleaning up music with id [faction_tritach_encounter_02_hostile.ogg]
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 18, 2022, 10:08:15 PM
I encountered an error after the fight with the 2 nightmares guarding the Sunrider derelict from the Sunrider mod.
Thanks for reporting this! I think I found what might cause this. Should be able to look into it tomorrow after work. Could you explain how to access this fight so I can test it?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: zrx1000 on March 19, 2022, 02:35:23 AM
I didn't do anything special. Just installed the Sunrider mod, then looked for Ava in a bar somewhere in the core worlds. I'm not sure of her exact spawn conditions.

1. Accept her mission to find the Sunrider.
2. Go to a pirate boss (there's one in Donn) and spend 100000 credits to find the location of another NPC, Jinta.
3. Go to Jinta and make Ava talk to find the location of the Sunrider.
4. Go to the system and try to salvage the Sunrider; there's a battle that causes the error afterwards.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Piranhabunny on March 20, 2022, 06:33:04 AM
Hello Sundog

In your old version I was able to tweak it so I didn't get negative traits. Is that not possible anymore?

Regards

PB
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 20, 2022, 09:58:24 AM
I didn't do anything special. Just installed the Sunrider mod, then looked for Ava in a bar somewhere in the core worlds. I'm not sure of her exact spawn conditions.
Cool. Thanks! I should be able to find the conditions easily enough by reading the code.

In your old version I was able to tweak it so I didn't get negative traits. Is that not possible anymore?
It's still possible, there are just different settings for it. Namely:
Quote
   "maxInitialNegativeTraits":4,
   "minInitialNegativeTraits":1,
   "minNegativeTraits":1, # This is the minimum number of negative traits a ship may have due to events
Setting all of those to 0 will make it so your ships only get positive traits.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: captshetz on March 20, 2022, 06:49:33 PM
I got the starship legends error notification after using the "goto" commandconsole command and traveling to a system with a bounty.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 21, 2022, 06:31:30 AM
Hmm... can't think of anything that might've caused that. When it happened, starship legends would've recorded something in your log file that can tell me exactly which part of the code failed. If you could find that info for me I'd be very grateful! Here's how:
1)  Locate the starsector.log located in Starsector folder:
Starsector\starsector-core



2)  Obtain the specific information from starsector.log.  Posting the entire starsector.log is not necessary, it is not most effective way to provide information to modders.   In order to provide the most useful information, scroll down to the bottom of starsector.log until you see the line that look similar to this:

ERROR (Any kind of error log)  - java.lang.NullPointerException

Example:
Here is an example of CTD log:

Code
179855 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
at src.lt.data.scripts.campaign.Lt_CampaignSpawnSpecialFleet.advance(Lt_CampaignSpawnSpecialFleet.java:60)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

See where it say 179855 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException with the rest of lines below it?  That's is what you want to provide when posting crash log.

Note that the error will only be at the bottom of the log if it *just* occurred.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: socker713 on March 22, 2022, 10:18:41 PM
How can I improve crew loyalty?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 23, 2022, 11:50:47 AM
By deploying ships in battle with an officer (or your character). Each time a ship is deployed with an officer it earns progress toward increased loyalty toward that officer. The amount of progress depends on a number of things, but mostly the amount of XP earned from the battle.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Histidine on March 24, 2022, 08:59:53 AM
After getting down to Conflicted, two of my AI cores don't seem to be improving their integration level even after multiple battles in which they fought and won. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.0 - Overhauled and Streamlined
Post by: Sundog on March 24, 2022, 05:03:19 PM
Bug. Cores aren't earning any loyalty progress... Thanks for bringing it to my attention! The ID of AI core captains changes frequently, so I had to make an exception to basically just use the type of core as their ID. Turns out I missed a spot. I'll get a patch out on the 27th or 28th.
Title: Re: [0.9.1a] Starship Legends 1.5.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 28, 2022, 11:44:03 AM
Starship Legends 2.1.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Not save compatible with versions prior to 2.0.0

Fixed integration status (loyalty) progression not working correctly for AI cores
Fixed an error that would occasionally occur during some bar events
Fixed an error that occurred after a certain battle from the Sunrider mod
Fixed displaying the player character as the captain of neurally linked ships when the player character is assigned to a non-linked ship
Fixed the possibility of hullmods being chosen as s-mods that aren't allowed to be s-mods
Fixed the possibility of generating D-hull ships with no d-mods
Changed: Famous flagships are now more likely to have more s-mods and traits
Changed: added verbiage to make it clear that famous flagship rumors are intended to narrow down the location of bounty targets
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Heukaryote975 on May 01, 2022, 11:49:59 AM
is this mod could conflict with progressive s-mods ? thank you for your work !
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 01, 2022, 04:20:18 PM
Thanks for your interest!  ;D
No one has reported any conflicts with Progressive S-mods and I can't think of any reason why there would be any conflicts, but I have not personally tested them together, so I can't rule out the possibility.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Onoya on May 02, 2022, 02:15:13 PM
Hey, i installed this mod on a new save, gained traits after my first battle, but can't see it in the refit menu

Where can i find it? Good job for the mod btw!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2022, 04:15:52 PM
Thanks, and welcome to the forum!  ;D
If the battle report says a ship gained a trait and you don't see the "Notable" hull mod in the refit screen for it then something's wrong. I'm not aware of anything that would cause that... unless perhaps the ship has a base variant that's never been altered, perhaps, but that seems unlikely (edit: unless it's a starting ship that you've never modified?). I'll have to do some tests. Would you be able to send me your save file or run PrintStarshipLegendsData using console commands?

edit 2: I just tried to reproduce the issue by starting games without starship legends, saving, enabling it, and fighting a battle, but the fame hull mod always showed up as it should. This was using the starting "base variants" I mentioned earlier, which have given me trouble in the past, so that's not it. There might be a mod conflict (or perhaps something about the ship) that's preventing starship legends from adding the hull mod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 03, 2022, 09:29:35 PM
Starship Legends 2.1.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Not save compatible with versions prior to 2.0.0

Fixed an error that could occur when choosing traits for ships with undefined defensive systems
Fixed a few typos and grammatical errors
Fixed a few cases where crew-related phrasing could be used for automated ships
Fixed the possibility of gawking spacers to join automated ships
Improved transparency for the cost of agreeing to some bar events, especially where loyalty may be lost
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on May 06, 2022, 01:23:13 AM
Is it possible to set a minimum ship rep score for the mod to start to kick in?  Nothing obvious stands out in the settings file.  I was just hoping to set it so that the majority of my ships have no modifiers on them until they've been in my fleet for a good while or something really noteworthy happens to them.  As well as have all my logistics ships completely stock since they're not doing any fighting and last time I tried the mod I got rather frustrated with freshly bought 0-d mod ships getting significant hits to their cargo capacities or consumption values.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: darkwarrior1000 on May 06, 2022, 02:20:11 AM
I've noticed some things that'd I'd like explained to me. It seems that different ship sizes have different weights to them in the trait rerolls. I get suggestions for frigates more often that not. It might just be weird rng. More importantly is the same ship can get two trait rerolls in a row. I have a tempest in my fleet with an officer and that thing gets nearly 1/3 of the trait reroll suggestions. one time it even gave me the same suggestion twice in a row. beyond that, some ships simply never get reroll suggestions. My flagship is an eradicator P and I've never had any suggestions to reroll the traits on that thing for 5 ingame years with the average day interval for suggestions set to 10. I tried removing all ships from my fleet except for a phaeton and it and then I set some other officer to pilot it but I guess 2 ships is too few to trigger trait rerolls. It's just that all the sidegrade suggestions go to the same ships and I'm not quite sure what to do. I've had a pair of centurions for a while and they've got over a dozen rerolls between the 2 of them but my flagship has had none for a long time. Do you know why that would be?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Freakycrafter on May 09, 2022, 07:21:48 AM
Hey, I was wondering if there is any way to adjust the amount of traits per tier your ships could get like in the older version or if you're planning to add it back in if it wasn't. I really miss my ships with all the reputations after updating the mod :D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Onoya on May 09, 2022, 07:44:32 PM
I found it, thx!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 13, 2022, 08:39:27 AM
Hi all, sorry for the late replies. Just got back from travelling.


Is it possible to set a minimum ship rep score for the mod to start to kick in?  Nothing obvious stands out in the settings file.  I was just hoping to set it so that the majority of my ships have no modifiers on them until they've been in my fleet for a good while or something really noteworthy happens to them.
It sounds like you'll want to increase the amount of xp required for a ship to become notable. You can do that in the options file by increasing "xpRequiredOnAverage" for the notable reputation tier.  You can also adjust the rate at which different ships earn xp by adjusting the various "xpMult" settings. (You can prevent civilian ships from getting any traits this way.) Note that in versions 2 and later player level increases xp gain by quite a bit (up to 10 times at max level).


I've noticed some things that'd I'd like explained to me. It seems that different ship sizes have different weights to them in the trait rerolls. I get suggestions for frigates more often that not. It might just be weird rng. More importantly is the same ship can get two trait rerolls in a row. I have a tempest in my fleet with an officer and that thing gets nearly 1/3 of the trait reroll suggestions. one time it even gave me the same suggestion twice in a row. beyond that, some ships simply never get reroll suggestions. My flagship is an eradicator P and I've never had any suggestions to reroll the traits on that thing for 5 ingame years with the average day interval for suggestions set to 10. I tried removing all ships from my fleet except for a phaeton and it and then I set some other officer to pilot it but I guess 2 ships is too few to trigger trait rerolls. It's just that all the sidegrade suggestions go to the same ships and I'm not quite sure what to do. I've had a pair of centurions for a while and they've got over a dozen rerolls between the 2 of them but my flagship has had none for a long time. Do you know why that would be?
This mostly comes down to weird RNG.  Sounds like I might need to change things up to ensure more even distribution.  The likelihood for a ship to be chosen for trait suggestions is proportional to the number of traits it has, with civilian ships being half as likely to be chosen.  There are no other factors.  So, for example, an onslaught with 8 traits would be 4 times as likely to be chosen as a dram with 4 traits.  Trait suggestions are less likely to occur at all if you have few notable ships in your fleet, but it can still occur rarely as long as there is at least one ship in your fleet with at least one trait.  If the total number of traits in your fleet from all ships is 50 or more, then new trait suggestions will be as likely as possible.
I know it's not a real solution, but if you really want to you can use console commands to change traits to whatever you want.


Hey, I was wondering if there is any way to adjust the amount of traits per tier your ships could get like in the older version or if you're planning to add it back in if it wasn't. I really miss my ships with all the reputations after updating the mod :D
There is, actually, although it's not properly tested yet. There is a "secret setting" called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the options file to change the number of traits you get at each tier.  If you want ships to get 6 traits at each tier then you could edit the options file to look like this at the end:
Quote
   "showNewTraitNotifications":true,
   "removeAllDataAndFeatures":false,
   
   "traitPairsPerTier":3,
}


I found it, thx!
Glad to hear it!  So do you think the reputation hullmod was there right after the battle, or do you think it was added later on?  Just trying to decide if it's something I should continue to investigate.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Droll on May 13, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
Hey, I was wondering if there is any way to adjust the amount of traits per tier your ships could get like in the older version or if you're planning to add it back in if it wasn't. I really miss my ships with all the reputations after updating the mod :D
There is, actually, although it's not properly tested yet. There is a "secret setting" called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the options file to change the number of traits you get at each tier.  If you want ships to get 6 traits at each tier then you could edit the options file to look like this at the end:
Quote
   "showNewTraitNotifications":true,
   "removeAllDataAndFeatures":false,
   
   "traitPairsPerTier":3,
}

Be careful about doing this on an ongoing save. I just did it and although traitPairsPerTier was set to 4. For some reason each tier on my ships has 8 traits instead of 4. Note that I had ships which had achieved legendary status in my campaign.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 13, 2022, 12:15:19 PM
Right, so unlike in versions prior to 2.0, the setting is traitPairsPerTier instead of traitsPerTier, meaning ships will get that many pairs of traits each tier (so twice that number of traits). This limitation was necessary due to fundamental changes in how trait growth works in 2.0+, and the reason I removed traitsPerTier in the first place. For ongoing saves, changing this setting won't change the traits a ship has at all, but will change its tier to match the number of traits it has, which is why your legendary ships with 8 traits became notable ships with 8 traits.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Droll on May 13, 2022, 03:18:54 PM
Right, so unlike in versions prior to 2.0, the setting is traitPairsPerTier instead of traitsPerTier, meaning ships will get that many pairs of traits each tier (so twice that number of traits). This limitation was necessary due to fundamental changes in how trait growth works in 2.0+, and the reason I removed traitsPerTier in the first place. For ongoing saves, changing this setting won't change the traits a ship has at all, but will change its tier to match the number of traits it has, which is why your legendary ships with 8 traits became notable ships with 8 traits.

Oh I probably should have read the damn parameter more closely lol. Yeah in that case nothing weird is happening, it's like the Sith version of 1.0. Always 2 there are.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 13, 2022, 04:11:02 PM
Yeah in that case nothing weird is happening, it's like the Sith version of 1.0. Always 2 there are.
Yeah, pretty much  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Freakycrafter on May 14, 2022, 04:03:58 PM
There is, actually, although it's not properly tested yet. There is a "secret setting" called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the options file to change the number of traits you get at each tier.  If you want ships to get 6 traits at each tier then you could edit the options file to look like this at the end:
Quote
   "showNewTraitNotifications":true,
   "removeAllDataAndFeatures":false,
   
   "traitPairsPerTier":3,
}
Nice, thank you so much  ;D
I used to play with as many traits as possible with the old version and thought it just got removed, maybe you should keep the option in the config by default and just keep it on 1 by default.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: darkwarrior1000 on May 14, 2022, 11:15:59 PM
Quote
This mostly comes down to weird RNG.  Sounds like I might need to change things up to ensure more even distribution.  The likelihood for a ship to be chosen for trait suggestions is proportional to the number of traits it has, with civilian ships being half as likely to be chosen.  There are no other factors.  So, for example, an onslaught with 8 traits would be 4 times as likely to be chosen as a dram with 4 traits.  Trait suggestions are less likely to occur at all if you have few notable ships in your fleet, but it can still occur rarely as long as there is at least one ship in your fleet with at least one trait.  If the total number of traits in your fleet from all ships is 50 or more, then new trait suggestions will be as likely as possible.
I know it's not a real solution, but if you really want to you can use console commands to change traits to whatever you want.
I guess it really is just weird rng. most of my ships were all well-known or famous at the time so it certainly wasn't an issue of those frigates having a disproportionate chance of being chosen for a perk reroll. That aside, I really like the bar events and would like to increase their frequency. they seem to be related to the trait sidegrades by the look of things but I'm no exactly sure how. is it related to the average additional bar events setting by any chance? Also, I have display ship xp set to true(both options) but I'm not quite sure where to view it. doesn't seem like it comes up in the reports either.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on May 15, 2022, 01:15:15 PM
I'm noticing that crew loyalty is very hard to build up, but extremely easy to lose.  It takes a good half dozen clean fights to get a level of loyalty, but losing a ship once will quickly drain that loyalty by one or two levels.  And yet, in most cases you can just wipe away that issue by swapping officers.  Unless you're playing excessively cautiously, you generally will lose a ship every few battles.  The AI just doesn't take that good of care of your ships.  The penalty for disloyalty feels disproportionate relative to your typical D mod or the benefits for positive loyalty.  You cannot really build ships or characters to address this.  Ships like those with rugged construction, skills like hull restoration, or just straight up paying for restorations can address D-mods.

It also isn't all that common to keep officers on the same ship long enough to build up loyalty early game.  So I tended to not engage with the system that much except to swap out disloyal officers after one of my ships got popped or I got into a tough fight.

On the flip side, the system does not work well with AI run ships.  AI controlled ships have fearless AI, so they're more likely than any other ship you have to be destroyed.  On top of that, you cannot just swap officers to remove disloyalty.  Any core will have the same loyalty status as any other core.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2022, 07:15:10 PM
Nice, thank you so much  ;D
No problem  :)

I used to play with as many traits as possible with the old version and thought it just got removed, maybe you should keep the option in the config by default and just keep it on 1 by default.
That's exactly what I'll do once I'm confident that the setting works properly with values other than 1


I guess it really is just weird rng. most of my ships were all well-known or famous at the time so it certainly wasn't an issue of those frigates having a disproportionate chance of being chosen for a perk reroll. That aside, I really like the bar events and would like to increase their frequency. they seem to be related to the trait sidegrades by the look of things but I'm no exactly sure how.
One of the events is functionally identical to the sidegrade opportunities that randomly pop up, just with additional prose. That's the only way they're related, really.

is it related to the average additional bar events setting by any chance?
The "averageAdditionalBarEvents" setting will increase the total number of events you're likely to see when visiting a bar. To make a particular type of starship legends event more likely you'll want to change the values in the "barEventChanceMultipliers" section.

Also, I have display ship xp set to true(both options) but I'm not quite sure where to view it. doesn't seem like it comes up in the reports either.
You can see XP details in the reputation hullmod tooltip. You should also be able to see a new column in the battle reports that shows the amount of XP each ship earned from the battle.


I'm noticing that crew loyalty is very hard to build up, but extremely easy to lose.
Thanks for the feedback!  I agree with a lot of it, but there are a few things about the loyalty system that I don't do a very good job of explaining anywhere.  The main thing is that it requires exponentially more XP for loyalty to improve at higher loyalty, making it difficult to achieve high loyalty levels, but very easy to recover from low loyalty levels. (At least, that's the goal.)
Loyalty LevelXP Required to Improve
Mutinous800
Openly Insubordinate4000
Insubordinate20000
Doubtful100000
Indifferent500000
Confident1500000
Loyal4500000
I tried to balance this so that players of average skill will generally keep most of their ships somewhere between insubordinate and loyal.  Unfortunately, that's a very difficult thing to do without a significant amount of data to analyze, so it's bound to be off.  Different playstyles also complicate this.  Another related problem is that loyalty is harder to maintain early game due to smaller battles yielding less XP.  This is something I want to address at some point, but I haven't settled on a solution yet.

Loyalty reduction can also be reduced or even negated under the right circumstances.  Weak ships that participate in battles involving strong opponents are far less likely to lose loyalty, as well as ships with any hullmod or skill that reduces crew casualties (e.g. Reiniforced Bukheads, Damage Control, Containment Procedures)

I know all that doesn't address every point you brought up in spite of being rather longwinded and rambley, but I do appreciate you taking the time to give feedback, and I'll keep it in mind when I consider future changes  :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: darkwarrior1000 on May 15, 2022, 07:37:01 PM
Quote
You can see XP details in the reputation hullmod tooltip. You should also be able to see a new column in the battle reports that shows the amount of XP each ship earned from the battle.
(https://i.imgur.com/zlHuxGk.png)
this is all that comes up in the tooltip. I don't see anything about xp in the post battle reports either.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2022, 08:23:16 PM
Hmm... yup. Reproduced on my end. Will be fixed in the next patch. Thanks for bringing that to my attention! In the meantime you should be able to see XP info by enabling dev mode with console commands, but I recommend turning it off before unpausing.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on May 16, 2022, 01:45:51 PM
Thanks for the feedback!  I agree with a lot of it, but there are a few things about the loyalty system that I don't do a very good job of explaining anywhere.  The main thing is that it requires exponentially more XP for loyalty to improve at higher loyalty, making it difficult to achieve high loyalty levels, but very easy to recover from low loyalty levels. (At least, that's the goal.)
Loyalty LevelXP Required to Improve
Mutinous800
Openly Insubordinate4000
Insubordinate20000
Doubtful100000
Indifferent500000
Confident1500000
Loyal4500000
I tried to balance this so that players of average skill will generally keep most of their ships somewhere between insubordinate and loyal.  Unfortunately, that's a very difficult thing to do without a significant amount of data to analyze, so it's bound to be off.  Different playstyles also complicate this.  Another related problem is that loyalty is harder to maintain early game due to smaller battles yielding less XP.  This is something I want to address at some point, but I haven't settled on a solution yet.

Loyalty reduction can also be reduced or even negated under the right circumstances.  Weak ships that participate in battles involving strong opponents are far less likely to lose loyalty, as well as ships with any hullmod or skill that reduces crew casualties (e.g. Reiniforced Bukheads, Damage Control, Containment Procedures)

I know all that doesn't address every point you brought up in spite of being rather longwinded and rambley, but I do appreciate you taking the time to give feedback, and I'll keep it in mind when I consider future changes  :)

If you couldn't just swap officers to reset to indifferent, I think that system would work a lot better.  Good to know that preventing crew loses also leads to better loyalty.  My personal suggestion would be to cut the low loyalty values entirely.  Have the baseline be the minimum.  Then have loyalty be something like a kill streak, it rewards players for keeping their ships alive and not shuffling around their officers.  D-mods and repair costs are already punishment enough for loses.  Say:

Untested (baseline): The crew is still unsure about their officer and is in a 'breaking in' period for their new posting.  -10% Peek operating time.
Indifferent: The crew has no strong feelings about their officer, but work together well enough.  No effects.
Warm: The crew and their officer have worked out their kinks and now work together well, their special skills can now start to shine.  -10% CR decay, +small ship traits.
Confident: Same as before
Loyal: Same as before

Untested is usually cleared after one battle and ships will generally stay at indifferent for extended periods of time.  While warm, confident, and loyal all have relatively similar experience values separating them.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: darkwarrior1000 on May 17, 2022, 12:19:36 AM
Quote
Then have loyalty be something like a kill streak, it rewards players for keeping their ships alive and not shuffling around their officers.
horrible idea. this would punish smart fleet composition for specialized fights as well as changing out your own flagship for specific bounties/engagements.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 17, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
My personal suggestion would be to cut the low loyalty values entirely.  Have the baseline be the minimum.  Then have loyalty be something like a kill streak, it rewards players for keeping their ships alive and not shuffling around their officers.
If I understand your suggestion correctly, it would be very similar to simply removing the negative loyalty levels.  I might add a setting for defining the min and max loyalty levels in the next major update, as long as it doesn't turn out to be more complicated than I expect.  In case you're not aware, it is possible to simply disable loyalty reduction by setting "baseLoyaltyLevelsLostWhenDisabled" to 0.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on May 17, 2022, 08:37:23 PM
Quote
Then have loyalty be something like a kill streak, it rewards players for keeping their ships alive and not shuffling around their officers.
horrible idea. this would punish smart fleet composition for specialized fights as well as changing out your own flagship for specific bounties/engagements.
Loyalty is actually persistent even when switching your officers.  You can have several ships loyal to your captain or officers at the same time.

If I understand your suggestion correctly, it would be very similar to simply removing the negative loyalty levels.  I might add a setting for defining the min and max loyalty levels in the next major update, as long as it doesn't turn out to be more complicated than I expect.  In case you're not aware, it is possible to simply disable loyalty reduction by setting "baseLoyaltyLevelsLostWhenDisabled" to 0.

Yeah, pretty much it is removing negative loyalty or at least making the lowest level fairly minimal for negative effects.  I do think losing loyalty for losing your ships is fine though, just that the disloyal scores go too far in the current version.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SyntacticMelon on May 17, 2022, 11:10:02 PM
This mods great, I really like the extra layer of identity that it can bring to ships, I've been using it since 0.9.1a and loaded it up for my new playthrough.

One thing I've noticed is that it's a lot harder to gain purely beneficial traits even with outstanding combat results whereas a slight boost to the damage rating in the combat calculation in the older version meant that you could guarantee a positive roll with exceptional combat results.

I've tweaked "xpMultPerDamageDealtPercent" to 0.009 but I'm not getting the same effect, is there any other variable I can change to have the desired effect?

I do like the trait side-grade and upgrade events instead of having to mothball a ship and start from scratch, allowing you to slowly specialize ships instead of rolling the dice every time.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Brandon0sh on May 18, 2022, 12:50:11 AM
For your next update, is there any chance you could add a setting that allows us to disable the "this fleet recognizes you because of notable ships in your fleet"? I'm playing Nexerelin and I want to be able to stealth without being recognized because of Starship legends.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 18, 2022, 05:00:19 PM
Yeah, pretty much it is removing negative loyalty or at least making the lowest level fairly minimal for negative effects.  I do think losing loyalty for losing your ships is fine though, just that the disloyal scores go too far in the current version.
Yeah, I can see how some of the lower loyalty levels might be too punishing for some people's tastes.


This mods great, I really like the extra layer of identity that it can bring to ships, I've been using it since 0.9.1a and loaded it up for my new playthrough.
[snip]
I do like the trait side-grade and upgrade events instead of having to mothball a ship and start from scratch, allowing you to slowly specialize ships instead of rolling the dice every time.
Glad to hear it!  ;D

One thing I've noticed is that it's a lot harder to gain purely beneficial traits even with outstanding combat results whereas a slight boost to the damage rating in the combat calculation in the older version meant that you could guarantee a positive roll with exceptional combat results.
For versions 2.0.0 and onward, combat performance only affects how quickly your ships earn fame and loyalty.  Ships will get the same traits no matter how well they do in combat.  It's possible to convert bad traits into good ones under the right circumstances (up to 7 good, 1 bad by default).  You might want to check out the changelog for 2.0.0 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/wiki/Change-Log) if you want specifics.

I've tweaked "xpMultPerDamageDealtPercent" to 0.009 but I'm not getting the same effect, is there any other variable I can change to have the desired effect?
That will increase how much xp ships get from dealing hull damage in battle, making them earn loyalty and reputation faster.  You might want to change how many negative traits ships may get by editing the "reputation growth" section of the options file.  Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with a satisfactory way to support the old combat rating system as well as the new system, so versions 2 and up can't be configured to work the way starship legends used to. For that, you'd need to download version 1.5.6 (see the "old versions" link on the first page).


For your next update, is there any chance you could add a setting that allows us to disable the "this fleet recognizes you because of notable ships in your fleet"? I'm playing Nexerelin and I want to be able to stealth without being recognized because of Starship legends.
Do you have a certain spooky manta ray shaped ship in your fleet by any chance?  Starship legends doesn't change when NPC fleets recognize you, although a few people have requested such a feature.  If I ever do add something like that there will certainly be a setting for it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Üstad on May 18, 2022, 05:14:51 PM
Does this mod affect the game performance in a bad way? Wouldn't keeping tracks of ship performances exhaust the game, I'm asking because I have no idea how it works.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SyntacticMelon on May 18, 2022, 05:48:47 PM

I've tweaked "xpMultPerDamageDealtPercent" to 0.009 but I'm not getting the same effect, is there any other variable I can change to have the desired effect?
That will increase how much xp ships get from dealing hull damage in battle, making them earn loyalty and reputation faster.  You might want to change how many negative traits ships may get by editing the "reputation growth" section of the options file.  Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with a satisfactory way to support the old combat rating system as well as the new system, so versions 2 and up can't be configured to work the way starship legends used to. For that, you'd need to download version 1.5.6 (see the "old versions" link on the first page).


Ah, that makes everything much more clear, thank you!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Satirical on May 18, 2022, 06:44:35 PM
For your next update, is there any chance you could add a setting that allows us to disable the "this fleet recognizes you because of notable ships in your fleet"? I'm playing Nexerelin and I want to be able to stealth without being recognized because of Starship legends.

That is something from vanilla ;)

Also epic mod but im confused now does the default settings make it so that you get one positive trait and one negative trait each rank?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 19, 2022, 06:33:13 PM
Does this mod affect the game performance in a bad way? Wouldn't keeping tracks of ship performances exhaust the game, I'm asking because I have no idea how it works.
This mod has a very low performance cost.  The stuff it keeps track of is insignificant, especially compared to what vanilla keeps track of.  During most frames it does absolutely nothing.  I'd say the biggest performance cost of this mod is that it can sometimes add several milliseconds to the time it takes to generate the dialog menu when you visit a bar, due to some of the bar events having poorly optimized generation code.  Also, I've noticed that very large battle reports won't always scroll smoothly.

Ah, that makes everything much more clear, thank you!
You're quite welcome  ;D

Also epic mod but im confused now does the default settings make it so that you get one positive trait and one negative trait each rank?
Traits always come in pairs in versions 2.0 and up, but they aren't always a positive and a negative. With default settings you will often get two positive traits at later reputation tiers. These are the settings that control how many negative traits your ships can have at max fame:
Quote
   "maxInitialNegativeTraits":4,
   "minInitialNegativeTraits":1,
   "minNegativeTraits":1, # This is the minimum number of negative traits a ship may have due to events
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Regularity on May 31, 2022, 01:19:06 PM
Quick question: Does this mod properly apply the bonuses to all sections of multi-section ships? (You know, the kind where each section has its own fitting and OP points, and fires and vents independently). Since a few mods introduce them, I was wondering if they were supported or not.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 31, 2022, 06:23:31 PM
Does this mod properly apply the bonuses to all sections of multi-section ships?
Yep
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: VolturnianMobster on June 07, 2022, 11:51:48 AM
I set    "rumoredTraitsShown":8 but it still only hows two traits when I hover the trait ingame. Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 09, 2022, 08:21:11 PM
Naw, you're not doing anything wrong. I forgot to make the mod actually read that setting, so it doesn't work... (same for the showXP settings)
It'll be fixed in the next release. Sorry about that!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Raudskeggr on July 29, 2022, 11:59:36 PM
This mod is probably my favorite mod, and one of a couple I'd consider essential; practically vanilla Starsector in my mind now.  Thanks for making this and keeping it up to date!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: CyberSultanVader on July 30, 2022, 02:00:48 AM
Hello it seems like some of the mod options have changed. How do I make it so that my ships dont pick up any negative traits at all? Should I set all these following stuff to 0?

"maxInitialNegativeTraits":2
"minInitialNegativeTraits":1
"minNegativeTraits":1
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 30, 2022, 03:57:36 PM
This mod is probably my favorite mod, and one of a couple I'd consider essential; practically vanilla Starsector in my mind now.  Thanks for making this and keeping it up to date!
;D

Hello it seems like some of the mod options have changed. How do I make it so that my ships dont pick up any negative traits at all? Should I set all these following stuff to 0?

"maxInitialNegativeTraits":2
"minInitialNegativeTraits":1
"minNegativeTraits":1
Yup, that's exactly right!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on July 31, 2022, 10:20:58 AM
Autonomous ships really are rough running AI cores on them in late game fights.  If you deploy them at the start of fights, they're probably going to get destroyed every other time.  They just always get out of position in these giant battles thanks to fearless.  Unless you're constantly grinding very easy battles, it's impossible to keep them at a high integration score.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Jang on July 31, 2022, 11:52:11 AM
Hello, from searching the thread it looks like there used to be a "traitsPerTier" setting, but it doesn't exist in the config anymore. Is there still a way to limit the total number of traits? Like If I wanted to have a maximum of 0 negative traits and 1 positive trait for each ship
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Konturga on July 31, 2022, 07:46:30 PM
I've had this mod for a very long time, and only recently updated in the past month or so. Since coming back, I don't really know what was added or what wasn't.. But I'm really amazed by how connected to the world I am when the people actually start noticing your ships and the legends that follow them. I recently got my first few legendary ships after an eternity, which is understandable, a legend should be difficult to form.. But to know the animated storyteller told that story, complete with where it was built.. It touched a heart I didn't know I had. I actually had to sit there for a moment in silence.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 31, 2022, 09:31:28 PM
Autonomous ships really are rough running AI cores on them in late game fights.  If you deploy them at the start of fights, they're probably going to get destroyed every other time.  They just always get out of position in these giant battles thanks to fearless.  Unless you're constantly grinding very easy battles, it's impossible to keep them at a high integration score.
I'm planning to change it so the loyalty/integration stuff only applies to AI ships if a story point is spent to "fully integrate" the AI core.  That should improve a couple of issues, including this one, hopefully.  If not I might need to add another loyalty loss modifier for AI ships, but I'm hoping that won't be necessary.  I'm not really concerned about making sure high loyalty can be maintained for every type ship, I just don't want any viable ship type or playstyle to be made frustrating or annoying by causing too much negative loyalty.

Hello, from searching the thread it looks like there used to be a "traitsPerTier" setting, but it doesn't exist in the config anymore. Is there still a way to limit the total number of traits? Like If I wanted to have a maximum of 0 negative traits and 1 positive trait for each ship
Well, there's a "secret" setting called "traitPairsPerTier" but it's not properly tested and it's only really useful if you want more traits rather than fewer, as the default value is 1.  If you want to use it you can paste this line into your config file:
Quote
"traitPairsPerTier":1,
You could also limit traits by making the later tiers prohibitively difficult to unlock by simply increasing their xp requirement.

I've had this mod for a very long time, and only recently updated in the past month or so. Since coming back, I don't really know what was added or what wasn't.. But I'm really amazed by how connected to the world I am when the people actually start noticing your ships and the legends that follow them. I recently got my first few legendary ships after an eternity, which is understandable, a legend should be difficult to form.. But to know the animated storyteller told that story, complete with where it was built.. It touched a heart I didn't know I had. I actually had to sit there for a moment in silence.
I'm very glad to hear that!  ;D
It took me way too long to get around to adding that event to the mod.  Should've been day one!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on August 01, 2022, 08:14:08 PM
I'm planning to change it so the loyalty/integration stuff only applies to AI ships if a story point is spent to "fully integrate" the AI core.  That should improve a couple of issues, including this one, hopefully.  If not I might need to add another loyalty loss modifier for AI ships, but I'm hoping that won't be necessary.  I'm not really concerned about making sure high loyalty can be maintained for every type ship, I just don't want any viable ship type or playstyle to be made frustrating or annoying by causing too much negative loyalty.
Just keeping my ramparts at 'nominal' with no upsides or downsides is the real pain.  I really mean it when I say that if I deploy them, unless the fight's already almost over, they're probably going to die.  It's like 50/50 if I can get them to retreat or not after they get themselves out of position.  You get a ton of firepower out of deploying ramparts for only 15 DP and they don't really pick up D-mods after recovery thanks to rugged construction and hull restoration.  I might have to just play without the cores.  With that fearless behavior, you pretty much have to be running them assuming they're going to die frequently.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 02, 2022, 06:04:51 PM
ramparts
That might be a big part of the problem, actually.  Explorarium/derelict drones are simply very fragile.  I thought you were talking about remnants (the blue, high-tech automated ships).  Either way, loyalty only applying to fully integrated AI cores should help quite a bit.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Konturga on August 05, 2022, 11:28:21 PM
I haven't tried selling a ship yet during the event, so this may already in there.. But when you sell the ship during the event, do you add it to the pool of ships in wanted bounties? It'd be interesting to see that ship come back to haunt you, especially if you ended up selling something.. Terrifying.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 06, 2022, 07:01:16 PM
Ha!  That's a good idea.  Unfortunately it wouldn't be as easy as simply adding the ship to a pool though.  The best way to go about it would probably be to make an entirely new type of event for this scenario.  That would be a lot of work for something that would rarely happen though...  Perhaps I should make it possible to somehow rediscover/fight your own famous ships that are lost for *any* reason.  I'll add that to my list of wanted features, but I can't promise anything.  Thanks for the suggestion!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Konturga on August 07, 2022, 12:01:26 AM
I think that's understandable. Because of the fact the ships are unique, not only would the ship need to be saved, but there would have to be custom bounties that run parallel to the ones the game already establishes. That sounds a bit rough. I imagine that difficulty would be similar to a suggestion of having enemy fleets react to legendary ships in your fleet, whether through slightly different text or whatnot.

I'm not expecting anything, nor should I, I think. This mod has been wonderful as it is, and it's become an irreplaceable part of my playthroughs. And playing around with that new feature of decreasing loyalty to remove a negative trait is really scratching that itch to eventually nail that perfect ship. I'll get there one day.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zr0Potential on August 10, 2022, 07:07:20 PM
Hello, big fan of your mod, really adds a layer of Role Playing with building up your reputation over the cycles

Just wanted to report a missing space and that the "ty" in "loyalty" should also be yellow in the attached pic (I don't know how to embed pictures)

Also is there a blacklist check opposite traits because I found a ship with both Oblivious PD Gunners and Skilled PD Gunners (unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot of it)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 10, 2022, 11:29:46 PM
Just wanted to report a missing space and that the "ty" in "loyalty" should also be yellow in the attached pic (I don't know how to embed pictures)
Thanks for pointing that stuff out!  It will be fixed in the next release.

Also is there a blacklist check opposite traits because I found a ship with both Oblivious PD Gunners and Skilled PD Gunners (unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot of it)
That's not supposed to be possible without the use of console commands.  I'll try to figure out how it might happen.  Do you remember how you found the ship?  As in, was it a famous flagship/derelict from a bar event, one of your own ships, etc?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Farya on August 11, 2022, 12:13:58 AM
Infernal Machine is it's own start with Underworld
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: antsh on August 11, 2022, 06:59:26 AM
Just wanted to report a missing space and that the "ty" in "loyalty" should also be yellow in the attached pic (I don't know how to embed pictures)
Thanks for pointing that stuff out!  It will be fixed in the next release.

Also is there a blacklist check opposite traits because I found a ship with both Oblivious PD Gunners and Skilled PD Gunners (unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot of it)
That's not supposed to be possible without the use of console commands.  I'll try to figure out how it might happen.  Do you remember how you found the ship?  As in, was it a famous flagship/derelict from a bar event, one of your own ships, etc?

I had something similar with lazy and determined (I think) crew. Are they supposed to be mutually exclusive?

Love this mod, by the way.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zr0Potential on August 11, 2022, 08:56:00 AM
Also is there a blacklist check opposite traits because I found a ship with both Oblivious PD Gunners and Skilled PD Gunners (unfortunately I didn't take a screenshot of it)
That's not supposed to be possible without the use of console commands.  I'll try to figure out how it might happen.  Do you remember how you found the ship?  As in, was it a famous flagship/derelict from a bar event, one of your own ships, etc?

Happy to help, and yes I found the opposite traits ship in the animated storyteller bar event for a wanted fleet leader
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 11, 2022, 10:08:48 PM
I had something similar with lazy and determined (I think) crew. Are they supposed to be mutually exclusive?

Love this mod, by the way.
Thanks!  ;D
Traits with opposite effects are supposed to be mutually exclusive, yes, but I think the traits you saw might not have been opposites.  The names are a bit confusing, but "lazy crew" reduces CR recovery speed outside of combat and "determined crew" increased peak performance time.  The opposite of lazy crew is industrious crew and the opposite of determined crew is spineless crew.

Happy to help, and yes I found the opposite traits ship in the animated storyteller bar event for a wanted fleet leader
Thanks!  That will reduce the area I need to search by quite a bit.

Although... now that I've checked it seems that you may have fallen victim to the too-similar trait names I came up with the same way as antsh.  Oblivious PD gunners isn't actually the opposite of Skilled PD gunners.  Vigilant/Oblivious PD gunners affects the range of PD weapons, while Skilled/Inept PD gunners affects PD damage.  I didn't even realize they weren't opposites at first, so maybe it's time to consider renaming some of the traits to be a bit less confusing/conflationary.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zr0Potential on August 12, 2022, 06:34:09 PM
Happy to help, and yes I found the opposite traits ship in the animated storyteller bar event for a wanted fleet leader
Thanks!  That will reduce the area I need to search by quite a bit.

Although... now that I've checked it seems that you may have fallen victim to the too-similar trait names I came up with the same way as antsh.  Oblivious PD gunners isn't actually the opposite of Skilled PD gunners.  Vigilant/Oblivious PD gunners affects the range of PD weapons, while Skilled/Inept PD gunners affects PD damage.  I didn't even realize they weren't opposites at first, so maybe it's time to consider renaming some of the traits to be a bit less confusing/conflationary.

Ah I see, might be a good consideration to rename them then since it feels kinda weird having a ship known for having Vigilant whilst Inept PD Gunners (at least imo).
 
Might I suggest, if finding the renames hard to really differentiate between the effects, to combine them instead (ex: Skilled PD Gunners = +Range +Damage, Inept = vice versa)?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Konturga on August 12, 2022, 10:53:57 PM
Could use the format for some of the other options,

"Faulty PD rangefinder/targeting systems" for less range,
"Overclocked PD rangefinder/targeting systems" for more.

Should help separate the crew from the systems, might make it easier.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 13, 2022, 10:56:26 PM
Might I suggest, if finding the renames hard to really differentiate between the effects, to combine them instead (ex: Skilled PD Gunners = +Range +Damage, Inept = vice versa)?
Traits only have one effect, in order to keep things simple and clean.  Changing that would require a rewrite of a lot of code. The file where traits are defined would have to be redesigned as well.  Not a bad idea, but not something I can afford the time to do.

Could use the format for some of the other options,

"Faulty PD rangefinder/targeting systems" for less range,
"Overclocked PD rangefinder/targeting systems" for more.

Should help separate the crew from the systems, might make it easier.
Yeah, I'll probably end up doing something along those lines.  Only problem is that some unexpected weirdness might happen in ongoing games if a trait switches from a crew trait to a non-crew trait.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Cheru on August 16, 2022, 12:10:49 AM
Hello there.
Haven't played this mod or Starsector in general in over a year and I kind of fail to receive any reputation on my ships. I've been playing for one in-game year - mining and sapvaging, no fights yet. Am I doing something wrong? Back in the day my ships gained reputation, good or bad one pretty quick. This time I don't even see any reputation info on a ship screen. Are there any incompatibilities? Please help.

Scratch that. Looks like I just had to gain a lot more xp than usual.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 16, 2022, 04:32:50 PM
Yeah, the xp earned from salvaging and most non-combat activities is very low compared to what you get from a decent sized battle. Still, I would still expect some of your ships to at least be notable after a year.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Zr0Potential on August 16, 2022, 08:38:44 PM
Might I suggest, if finding the renames hard to really differentiate between the effects, to combine them instead (ex: Skilled PD Gunners = +Range +Damage, Inept = vice versa)?
Traits only have one effect, in order to keep things simple and clean.  Changing that would require a rewrite of a lot of code. The file where traits are defined would have to be redesigned as well.  Not a bad idea, but not something I can afford the time to do.

Ahh I see, understandable yeah, better distinct names it is then  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on August 20, 2022, 11:28:20 AM
Something happened and the message "Starship Legends encountered an error". Went to check the log and found this:

2161574 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    com.fs.starfarer.api.util.Misc.isPlayerOrCombinedContainingPlayer(Misc.java:2112)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.FleetEncounterContext.getRecoverableShips(FleetEncounterContext.java:1395)
    exerelin.campaign.battle.NexFleetEncounterContext.getRecoverableShips(NexFleetEncounterContext.java:64)
    starship_legends.CampaignScript.advance(CampaignScript.java:453)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

Frankly, you should just let the mod crash the game instead of making it say that the mod encountered an error
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 21, 2022, 10:45:26 PM
Hey, thanks for letting me know and sorry about the trouble!  Looks like it might be difficult to pin down the cause of this one.  Did this occur during the post battle dialog?  Any chance there was something unusual about the battle, or does this error occur reliably in your game?

Frankly, you should just let the mod crash the game instead of making it say that the mod encountered an error
Yeah, probably.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Arthur_The_Ok on August 22, 2022, 03:25:12 AM
It happened post battle dialog, and there was nothing unusual about the battle. It could be because I salvaged an Armaa strikecraft, but IIRC that was fixed, right?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 22, 2022, 02:11:23 PM
I'm not aware of any bug with Armaa strikecraft.  Not an incompatibility with starship legends, I hope?

So I don't think I'll be able to pinpoint the root cause, but the stack trace you gave me told me enough to prevent the issue, at least. Thanks again for your help, and just for reporting bugs in general, which it seems like you do a lot. People like you can improve the stability and quality of a modding ecosystem by quite a bit.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: JenkoRun on August 24, 2022, 06:36:46 AM
Is there a way to exclude the luddic path explosive tanker from the system? It's a suicide ship so I don't want it accumulating a bad rep for doing its job, cheers.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 24, 2022, 05:27:28 PM
Are you referring to the IED ships added by the Luddic Enhancement mod? If so, aren't they supposed to be impossible to recover anyway? In the current version of starship legends loyalty is only lost when a ship is disabled, so if a ship can't be recovered it will never lose loyalty.

To actually answer your question, though, there is no way to exclude only a specific type of ship from the loyalty system or the reputation system.  Reputations are no longer influenced by battle performance in any way, so that shouldn't matter for your case. You could prevent the loyalty system from affecting specific ships by simply not assigning officers to them. Finally, if no other option is suitable, you could use console commands to fix the loyalty of your ships however you like.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: PasDeBras on August 26, 2022, 02:28:20 AM
I believe you can recover an IED ship if it's yours and you win the fight.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 27, 2022, 04:36:50 PM
Hmm... if that's so it seems not to be the intent of the author:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/8MhMbHq.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: voltaxic_rift on September 06, 2022, 08:25:25 AM
how to edit the STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini to make Loyalty would not lose when ship taken damage, or even grow loyalty when taken damage.

many ships are born as a Tank and many battle are really cruel.  taken damage are hardly to avoid.  So I want to change it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 06, 2022, 01:58:51 PM
As of version 2 ships only lose loyalty when they're disabled. Damage taken has no effect.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Catscrath on September 07, 2022, 02:44:59 PM
So with Nexerelin, if you are playing as the Luddic Path, your ships die a lot, so do pirates to a lesser extent. But the Path are fanatics and Pirates are usually insane so is there any system for reducing or not effecting the player if they are playing under those factions? I just don't think it makes much sense that my holy martyrs of Ludd suddenly get sad and angry with their captain when their suicide IED ship dies in combat.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 08, 2022, 07:39:02 PM
I don't have any plans to customize how loyalty works based on the player's faction relationships. The IED ships from LP Enhancement aren't supposed to be recoverable. For atypical playthroughs that the loyalty system doesn't work well with, I'd recommend editing starship legend's settings to suit the playthrough to your liking.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ladean on September 12, 2022, 09:55:50 PM
I'd like to make a suggestion.

Add another level above legendary and have it be insanely hard to get, like I would say around 3 to 4 times harder than legendary. Why? Well it would be cool to see your ship or a foe that you know for a fact has a very high chance of murdering you! Just from playing for awhile i have just seen it gets kinda funny seeing legendary ships getting blasted apart like a stick butter vs a gun and would spice things up even more but of course be super rare. 

As for a name for said rank, i would think something along the lines of "mythical" would be great :D 

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: robepriority on September 13, 2022, 10:14:55 AM
I'd like to make a suggestion.

Add another level above legendary and have it be insanely hard to get, like I would say around 3 to 4 times harder than legendary. Why? Well it would be cool to see your ship or a foe that you know for a fact has a very high chance of murdering you! Just from playing for awhile i have just seen it gets kinda funny seeing legendary ships getting blasted apart like a stick butter vs a gun and would spice things up even more but of course be super rare. 

As for a name for said rank, i would think something along the lines of "mythical" would be great :D

Feels like a mod balance issue - traits are strong, but they shouldn't override other components of fleet design when determining strength.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 14, 2022, 08:50:05 PM
Yeah, balance is definitely an important consideration here. I feel like the default configuration already adjusts stats enough to be a bit disruptive to balance, so I'd rather not increase those adjustments further. It sounds like the problem is that legendary ships are too common for long-running games. I don't think an additional reputation tier would fix that. It's a difficult situation to improve, since increasing the threshold for the max tier (whatever that may be) would result in rep growth being frustratingly unattainable for players who prefer shorter runs. Trait growth rate is something I've just tried to balance the best I can, but there might be some clever way to make it more satisfying for a broader range of people that I haven't considered.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ladean on September 14, 2022, 09:38:06 PM
Yeah, balance is definitely an important consideration here. I feel like the default configuration already adjusts stats enough to be a bit disruptive to balance, so I'd rather not increase those adjustments further. It sounds like the problem is that legendary ships are too common for long-running games. I don't think an additional reputation tier would fix that. It's a difficult situation to improve, since increasing the threshold for the max tier (whatever that may be) would result in rep growth being frustratingly unattainable for players who prefer shorter runs. Trait growth rate is something I've just tried to balance the best I can, but there might be some clever way to make it more satisfying for a broader range of people that I haven't considered.

Well I can think of one way, simply make different versions of the mod, A fast, normal, slow and so on if needed, you'd be doing what the "A new level" mod did. With this you could just go crazy really, If people want to do a faster run then they can use the faster version of this mod and obtain the highest ranks without spending years of time and then for me I would the normal speed with an extra rank and so on, you could just then add the extra rank to all versions sense you don't have to worry about progression speed to much.

A second way would be to have a multiplier, like 1x to 3x that can be set in the settings file and advertise this function on the main page so players know they can change the speed as they see fit.

And lastly you could just use a transdimensional [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] with 7000 units of lobster then add [REDACTED] and cook for [REDACTED] and with that you could buy 8 units of drugs and let the thing do its work!


Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on September 15, 2022, 12:27:36 PM
Another option could be that a legendary ship is something that has to be intentionally set by the player and they are limited by how many they can make in a run of the game.  A ship that has reached such a high rank in attention could have an opportunity to gain special attention.  With the player spending resources like story points and cash for some added modifications, extra perks for the crew, and giving a little media attention to the ship.  The player then does a short quest where they take the ship to specific ports for media stunts, a vacation/team building event for the crew, and overhaul in the port.  Something suitably epic for a ship becoming legendary in the hearts and minds of the sector and her crew.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 16, 2022, 09:13:46 PM
Thanks for sharing the ideas, guys! I do like the idea of giving players more control over which of their ships gain notability faster.

And lastly you could just use a transdimensional [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] with 7000 units of lobster then add [REDACTED] and cook for [REDACTED] and with that you could buy 8 units of drugs and let the thing do its work!
Brilliant!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Thogapotomus on September 19, 2022, 06:37:01 PM
I'd like to know if cursed is working as intended. The tooltip says +3% spontaneous malfunction chance. I'm assuming it's been on my ship from when I recovered it, because it hasn't been disabled since I've acquired it. I've also never noticed a malfunction. However in my last battle and the pursuit, my weapons were constantly malfunctioning while at 100% CR. I have 4 and basically 1 to 2 were down for most of the fight. It was so bad I thought my game had bugged out, before I realized what was causing it. *edit* After looking at it in the sim, my engines are going out as well. It's very cursed. */edit*  Is there an easy way I can change the ship's traits? I've looked through the files and my save, but I haven't really found anything definitive enough to try changing. *edit* Ah, I found how to do it with the console thanks to your command list. Thanks for that! So thoughtful. */edit*

I just updated the game from 0.95 and have been playing for a bit. Only after looking into the cursed issue did I realize you changed how traits were gained. I love this mod, but the change feels really bad. I can understand why you did it, but it still hurts having no impact in regard to what traits we get. Thanks for giving us the option to disable negative traits though. I wouldn't mind them if I had any influence over them, but having an easy way to disable them is very nice. I wish I had utilized it sooner.

You've given us the ability to see rumored traits, but is there anyway we could perhaps choose what they are? Actually having the crew work towards a specific goal, would be nice. Like a general area of focus as opposed to actually just picking the traits. Anyways, thanks for the mod. It's good enough that it should be in vanilla.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: White Hound Black Lotus on September 21, 2022, 01:10:11 AM
How do you know what reputation your ship is at?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: MattyK on September 21, 2022, 08:10:58 AM
How do you know what reputation your ship is at?

Refit screen, it's shown above your hullmods. If there's no reputation (Notable, Well Known, Famous, etc.) then it hasn't received enough EXP to earn it a trait yet.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 22, 2022, 09:20:03 PM
I'd like to know if cursed is working as intended.
I vaguely remember fixing a bug like what you described, but I don't see it in the change log, so I might be mistaken. Have you seen the same problem with excessive malfunctions again since updating to the most recent version? Thanks for letting me know about the issue!

I just updated the game from 0.95 and have been playing for a bit. Only after looking into the cursed issue did I realize you changed how traits were gained. I love this mod, but the change feels really bad. I can understand why you did it, but it still hurts having no impact in regard to what traits we get.
You've given us the ability to see rumored traits, but is there anyway we could perhaps choose what they are? Actually having the crew work towards a specific goal, would be nice. Like a general area of focus as opposed to actually just picking the traits.
I miss a lot of things about traits being based on combat performance as well, but sadly the down sides were too much...
You do still have some impact on trait growth in version 2 though. There are events that allow you to replace a good trait with a different good trait (and same for bad traits). With high enough loyalty you can also get events that allow you to "fix" bad traits in exchange for losing some loyalty.

Anyways, thanks for the mod. It's good enough that it should be in vanilla.
Thanks!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Taverius on September 28, 2022, 01:28:00 AM
I don't really understand the INI file.

What I want to do:


Halp?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 28, 2022, 04:57:10 PM
Sounds like you'll want to reduce "globalEffectMult" and "maxInitialNegativeTraits"
Reducing "globalEffectMult" will make the traits of enemy NPC fleets weaker as well, so if you want that to stay the same you'll need to adjust "fleetTraitEffectMult" to compensate. So if you reduce globalEffectMult by half, for example, you'd want to double fleetTraitEffectMult

None of my ships have more than 1 positive to go with the negative.
I think it's worth pointing out here that ships earn the "worst" trait pairs first, so new ships will often start off with worse reputations than what they'll end up with.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Taverius on September 29, 2022, 03:17:22 AM
Thanks, I'll try that.

I went with 0.75 and no fleet adjustment. Let's see how that goes :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DanzyDanz on October 03, 2022, 05:47:41 AM
coulda swore there was an options to have more than 2 traits per tier. did it disappear? if so, how to add it back?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 03, 2022, 07:45:28 AM
You're right. In version 2 I restructured everything so that traits are earned only in pairs, making the "traitsPerTier" setting obsolete. However, there is a "secret" setting called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the settings file. It's not in there by default because it hasn't been tested properly yet and might cause issues, so use at your own risk, and if you do, please report any issues so I can fix them up. You can add the setting by adding the line below to any part of the configuration file.
Quote
"traitPairsPerTier":1,
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Coward on October 03, 2022, 09:25:37 AM
You're right. In version 2 I restructured everything so that traits are earned only in pairs, making the "traitsPerTier" setting obsolete. However, there is a "secret" setting called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the settings file. It's not in there by default because it hasn't been tested properly yet and might cause issues, so use at your own risk, and if you do, please report any issues so I can fix them up. You can add the setting by adding the line below to any part of the configuration file.

I have been using this option for a while + configuring SL to only provide positive traits (I like protagonist syndrome ok), but I've noticed that this only seems to work properly with a trairPairsPerTier value of 2; I have it currently set to 3, but eventually ships stop earning traits at Famous level, and the "Rumored Traits" show no new traits to earn

Adding new traits manually on top of the existing traits of a famous ship works fine, and correctly pushes it up to Legendary, so I assume this is unintended behavior of some sort
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: DanzyDanz on October 03, 2022, 06:25:03 PM
You're right. In version 2 I restructured everything so that traits are earned only in pairs, making the "traitsPerTier" setting obsolete. However, there is a "secret" setting called "traitPairsPerTier" that you can add to the settings file. It's not in there by default because it hasn't been tested properly yet and might cause issues, so use at your own risk, and if you do, please report any issues so I can fix them up. You can add the setting by adding the line below to any part of the configuration file.
Quote
"traitPairsPerTier":1,

Thanks! I just got back to the sector since .95a, can't start a playthrough without this mod!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2022, 09:19:23 PM
I have been using this option for a while + configuring SL to only provide positive traits (I like protagonist syndrome ok), but I've noticed that this only seems to work properly with a trairPairsPerTier value of 2; I have it currently set to 3, but eventually ships stop earning traits at Famous level, and the "Rumored Traits" show no new traits to earn

Adding new traits manually on top of the existing traits of a famous ship works fine, and correctly pushes it up to Legendary, so I assume this is unintended behavior of some sort
Thanks for the info! I took a quick look and reproduced similar behavior. Pretty sure I know why this happens, but I need to do a bit more digging. I should have it fixed up for the next update.

Thanks! I just got back to the sector since .95a, can't start a playthrough without this mod!
;D Have fun!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on October 06, 2022, 02:41:32 PM
So this one's a weird little corner case: I picked up the Ziggurat, immediately mothballed it (didn't quite have the crew on hand for it), and a bit later the little scrolling message went by saying it had gained traits... but it used trait descriptions as if it were an AI-controlled hull.

The mouseover in the refit screen shows the correct crewed-hull terms, however.

I'd guess that this is due to the hull being mothballed, and thus technically having a skeleton crew requirement of zero? But I haven't tested this with other hulls.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: jocan2003 on October 06, 2022, 03:25:30 PM
Its been a long time but i swore bad trait would turn into good trait after enough xp was earned, isnt it a feature anymore?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 06, 2022, 09:12:07 PM
I'd guess that this is due to the hull being mothballed, and thus technically having a skeleton crew requirement of zero?
Yup! Someone else reported this recently and it's on my to do list. Thanks for pointing it out!

Its been a long time but i swore bad trait would turn into good trait after enough xp was earned, isnt it a feature anymore?
Prior to version 2 traits would sometimes be added and removed based roughly on combat performance. Traits can be improved and adjusted in the current version as well, but not in the same way. Now, you will sometimes get the choice to "fix" a bad trait when the crew of a ship becomes loyal enough to their officer.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Thogapotomus on October 10, 2022, 09:46:25 AM
I'd like to know if cursed is working as intended.
I vaguely remember fixing a bug like what you described, but I don't see it in the change log, so I might be mistaken. Have you seen the same problem with excessive malfunctions again since updating to the most recent version? Thanks for letting me know about the issue!

I went back to the save before I removed the cursed trait and took a quick video. The malfunctions do seem to happen at random times. Sometimes there's not many malfunctions, but other times I was having 2 things constantly down. I sped up combat by x2 so this isn't as bad as it looks, but it still seems excessive. I've had combat starts where both engines would flame out immediately which, while funny, is really annoying. This is on 2.1.2

https://youtu.be/NSyltNzxAes
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 10, 2022, 12:38:00 PM
Thanks for taking the time to make the video! That is a bit more dysfunctional than I'd expect...

So I counted 6 malfunctions over 90 seconds, which is actually 180 since time is doubled with Speed Up. So 2 malfunctions per minute. "2.5% malfunction chance" means (or is supposed to mean) that there is a 2.5% chance of a random malfunction about once per second, which roughly works out to 1.5 malfunctions per minute. Not too far off, but I agree that it's too much. I took a look at the relevant code and noticed a mistake that would cause the malfunction chance to proc about twice as often as intended, so I fixed that up. Cursed will still be more debilitating than other negative traits, but hopefully that will make it a bit less annoying.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Thogapotomus on October 10, 2022, 04:13:03 PM
Thanks for taking the time to look into it. I think the real issue is that the malfunction chance hurts way more on ships with fewer components. It would be way less painful if I had every mount filled, even if you kept the same frequency as in the video. The other issue is that the frequency is actually random, or so it seems. In the video I took, they are actually pretty evenly spread out, which doesn't usually happen. Sometimes you'll go a full minute or so without anything happening. Other times you'll have two or possibly three happening at the same time. Again, with only 4 weapons on a ship, it really hurts. In any case, halving the frequency will definitely make it more palatable.

Also, cool-running drive stabilizer is way too strong. Takes sensor profile into the negatives easily. I've never seen it come up naturally though, so I'm guessing this is something you're probably not supposed to have, as you actually have the Well/Poorly Insulated trait, but I figured I'd mention it just incase.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 10, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
I think the real issue is that the malfunction chance hurts way more on ships with fewer components.
That's a good point! I'll scale the chance based on total (edit: in-use) weapon/engine slots.

Also, cool-running drive stabilizer is way too strong. Takes sensor profile into the negatives easily. I've never seen it come up naturally though, so I'm guessing this is something you're probably not supposed to have, as you actually have the Well/Poorly Insulated trait, but I figured I'd mention it just incase.
Only ships with built-in drive field stabilizers (tugs) can get that trait, which prevents negative profile because tugs have huge sensor profiles due to the hullmod.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Thogapotomus on October 10, 2022, 06:57:51 PM
That's a good point! I'll scale the chance based on total (edit: in-use) weapon/engine slots.
I'm glad modifying the trait was something that was relatively minor to change. I think that will be a solid change.

Only ships with built-in drive field stabilizers (tugs) can get that trait, which prevents negative profile because tugs have huge sensor profiles due to the hullmod.
Oh that makes sense. I've literally never used a tug simply due to it's sensor profile.

I appreciate you taking the time to look into this!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Stopple on October 12, 2022, 06:09:47 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/GQBnNGW/oxy.png)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: YourLocalMairaaboo on October 12, 2022, 06:24:47 AM
The opposite of lazy is "dutiful", and the opposite of professional is "incompetent". This is no oximoron. It just means they rarely do anything, but when they do, they do it well.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 12, 2022, 05:11:31 PM
Good points, guys! Those trait names may not be contradictory in the strictest sense, but they can certainly be confusing together. The meaning of "professional" is simply too broad not to result in conflicts like this. Same with "dutiful." I'll rename...
Professional crew to Fastidious crew (+CR limit)
Dutiful crew to Trusting crew (+loyalty growth)
Obstinate crew to Cynical crew (-loyalty growth)

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Farya on October 13, 2022, 03:58:01 AM
For some reason Eradicator and Barbarian in my fleet are treated as AI ships when it comes to crew loyalty. Game shows it as AI integration status on combat log.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Yunru on October 14, 2022, 01:58:30 PM
I could of sworn there was a config option for maximum total negative traits, but can only find one for intial negative traits, am I going crazy?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 14, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
For some reason Eradicator and Barbarian in my fleet are treated as AI ships when it comes to crew loyalty. Game shows it as AI integration status on combat log.
Thanks for letting me know! I'll check it out soon. Were they mothballed by any chance?

I could of sworn there was a config option for maximum total negative traits, but can only find one for intial negative traits, am I going crazy?
Sounds like you're looking for "minNegativeTraits" which is the fewest negative traits a ship can eventually end up with after events. "maxInitialNegativeTraits" is basically the same thing as maximum negative traits, because there's no way to turn good traits into bad ones.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Farya on October 15, 2022, 01:34:03 AM
For some reason Eradicator and Barbarian in my fleet are treated as AI ships when it comes to crew loyalty. Game shows it as AI integration status on combat log.
Thanks for letting me know! I'll check it out soon. Were they mothballed by any chance?
That *might* be the case, but honestly I don't remember if I mothballed these two before I checked the log or after.
Also that bug occurs on Post-battle Log window only. When examining hullmod in loadout menu, it correctly shows crew loyalty.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on October 15, 2022, 05:34:11 PM
I come bearing a minor typo! During the storyteller talking about one of your ships event, "to being disabled during hard-fought battle" - is missing an 'a'. Should be "during a hard-fought battle".
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 16, 2022, 06:59:53 AM
I come bearing a minor typo! During the storyteller talking about one of your ships event, "to being disabled during hard-fought battle" - is missing an 'a'. Should be "during a hard-fought battle".
Fixed! Thanks for pointing it out  :)

That *might* be the case, but honestly I don't remember if I mothballed these two before I checked the log or after.
Also that bug occurs on Post-battle Log window only. When examining hullmod in loadout menu, it correctly shows crew loyalty.
Ok, figured it out. Ships won't show up on battle reports if they're mothballed during the battle, but if you mothball a ship afterward, the report will use the ship's current state, see that it requires no crew, and think it's an AI ship. For now I'll change it to look at the base minimum crew of the hull type instead, which should never change. This will cause it to display incorrectly in cases where a hullmod has been installed to transform a crewed ship into an AI ship, but afaik Sylphon is the only mod that does this, and it's not officially up to date. Eventually I might need to come up with a method of for detecting AI ships that considers more factors, but for now I think I'll keep it simple.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Yunru on October 16, 2022, 11:06:21 AM
Just a heads up that I also have a hullmod that automates ships.
Although it does it by adding the Automated hullmod, so I suppose you could just check for that.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 16, 2022, 12:20:15 PM
Just a heads up that I also have a hullmod that automates ships.
Ah, I was hoping someone would point it out if there were other methods of automating ships. Thanks! I'll see what I can do about improving compatibility with that feature. Could you tell me which of your mods adds it?

Although it does it by adding the Automated hullmod, so I suppose you could just check for that.
Unfortunately I couldn't rely on all mods with similar features to do the same, so checking for that can get dicey. I think I'll probably just keep checking if ship.minCrew <= 0 and resorting to more complicated checks only if the ship is mothballed. That should be fairly robust.

Edit: This should work in all cases for your mod, right?
Code
    public static boolean isShipCrewed(FleetMemberAPI ship) {
        return ship.isMothballed()
                ? (ship.getHullSpec().getMinCrew() > 0 || ship.getVariant().hasHullMod(HullMods.AUTOMATED))
                : (ship.getMinCrew() > 0);
    }
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Frosterus on October 16, 2022, 09:54:54 PM
So how quickly does disloyalty build up? Because fights in end-game Starsector, especially against the REDACTED, usually results in almost half of my fleet being disabled.

I personally don't see how all of my ships wouldn't be disloyal in the constant fight night against the robots.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Yunru on October 17, 2022, 05:14:41 AM
Just a heads up that I also have a hullmod that automates ships.
Ah, I was hoping someone would point it out if there were other methods of automating ships. Thanks! I'll see what I can do about improving compatibility with that feature. Could you tell me which of your mods adds it?
Unsurprisingly, it's Yunru Hullmods :P

Quote
Although it does it by adding the Automated hullmod, so I suppose you could just check for that.
Unfortunately I couldn't rely on all mods with similar features to do the same, so checking for that can get dicey. I think I'll probably just keep checking if ship.minCrew <= 0 and resorting to more complicated checks only if the ship is mothballed. That should be fairly robust.

Edit: This should work in all cases for your mod, right?
Code
    public static boolean isShipCrewed(FleetMemberAPI ship) {
        return ship.isMothballed()
                ? (ship.getHullSpec().getMinCrew() > 0 || ship.getVariant().hasHullMod(HullMods.AUTOMATED))
                : (ship.getMinCrew() > 0);
    }
Definitely!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 17, 2022, 07:29:12 AM
So how quickly does disloyalty build up? Because fights in end-game Starsector, especially against the REDACTED, usually results in almost half of my fleet being disabled.
Ships can lose as many as two loyalty levels when disabled, but might not lose any at all. Ships get "resistance" to losing loyalty from effects that reduce crew casualties and from being outmatched. So for example, if you bring a Kite that has blast doors into a fight with Radiants it might not lose any loyalty if it's disabled, and never more than 1. A Paragon would lose the full two loyalty levels if it were disabled in the same fight. Skills that make crew safer (containment procedures and damage control) also prevent loyalty loss, and all effects stack.

Unsurprisingly, it's Yunru Hullmods :P
Yeah, yeah, guess I should've known  ::)
I'll do a few quick tests to make sure your automation hullmod doesn't confuse starship legends. Thanks again for pointing it out to me  :)

Definitely!
Actually, I missed a "!" in there before the hullmod check  ::)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on November 02, 2022, 04:52:35 PM
A minor suggestion: for the ship sale event, where someone wants to buy one of your famous hulls, I'd suggest adding a story point refund mechanic for s-mods - have it grant the same bonus XP you'd get from scrapping the hull.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 03, 2022, 04:25:01 PM
Hmm... that's a good idea...
The price you're offered in that event actually factors in s-mods though, so it already compensates you for SP, just in a different way. However, it scales the base price of the ship based on s-mods rather than considering the value of the SP themselves. So it offers much less $ for SP spent on a Hound than SP spent on an Onslaught. For the sake of simplicity* I might just increase the buy offer price based on a flat amount proportional to the bonus XP you'd get from scuttling. Now I just need to decide how many credits one SP is worth...

*And because I'm generally not a big fan of the whole bonus XP system to begin with, even though I <3 SP
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on November 03, 2022, 07:52:53 PM
Ahh, that's fair. I'm not entirely a fan of the bonus XP system either - my first thought for a suggestion was actually direct refund of story points, with bonus XP only getting involved for fractional values.

What the credit value of a story point is, though. Hrm. Early game that might be as low as a mere 100k - but early game you're not going to be seeing these events much, I think? At least, they only seem to turn up for fairly well advanced ships.

Late game I'm generally not in need of cash; I only accepted the offer that one time because I was curious if it had a refund mechanic & I was planning on retiring the hull in question anyway. Most of the time when this comes up it's on a hull I've no interest in selling regardless of price.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 04, 2022, 06:11:09 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't expect many people to accept that offer under normal circumstances. It's mostly just there for flavor, but it won't hurt to at least make it a bit more enticing.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: TheTangy on November 21, 2022, 08:52:48 AM
This mod does not seem to have been updated on the main modlist as 0.95.1a compatible, so people may be missing out.

Unless I'm missing something?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: SpaceDrake on November 21, 2022, 11:00:43 AM
Outside of a few exceptions, you can assume that any .95 mods will work just fine in .95.1.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 21, 2022, 04:30:09 PM
This mod does not seem to have been updated on the main modlist as 0.95.1a compatible, so people may be missing out.
Yeah, I should probably bug a moderator to fix that at some point.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Modo44 on December 18, 2022, 12:07:48 PM
It would be nice if one could disable the ship traits notification for specific ships, not for everything. While I care about the specifics of my core fleet, I could not give two s#its about some disposable frigates or freighters. The either-or approach means you either see nothing, or your intel gets spammed with "important" notifications that aren't.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 19, 2022, 08:58:10 AM
I could maybe split it up into a few categories for which ships notifications are shown for, but I can't think of a clean way for people to designate specific ships as worthy of notifications. I wouldn't want to add too many categories for the sake of avoiding clutter, so maybe different notification settings for ships with/without officers?

Is there a certain scenario of set of options that lead to the notifications being problematically spammy? That could be useful to know in order to address the issue more effectively. In my experience the notifications are very infrequent, as the vast majority of the traits my ships get are shown on battle reports. Did you add starship legends to a game where you already had a large fleet? Did you increase traitPairsPerTier, or something else that would make the occurrence of new traits more frequent?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Modo44 on December 19, 2022, 12:00:55 PM
Yes, a separate setting for ships with and without officers should mostly take care of it.

I do not mean spam in the sense of "too many messages", but in the sense that many end up irrelevant. If I understand the feature correctly, you have to click through one proposal to get the next one, which adds tedium.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 19, 2022, 04:53:12 PM
Ah, you were talking about the notifications for trait sidegrade suggestions. That makes more sense. I thought you were talking about the notifications for new traits. I think a setting to only suggest sidegrades for ships with officers is worth adding, so that'll be in the next version. Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on December 19, 2022, 08:26:04 PM
Huh. I mean, sure, a lot of the sidegrade suggestions end up irrelevant - do I want to swap improved armor for improved shields on one of my freighters? Nah, don't care.

...But definitely not all of them. Will I swap improved armor for reduced supply usage on a freighter? Absolutely.

(And even for main combat ships - am I going to trade out 'Deadly' for anything else? Almost certainly not.)

...That said, there are situations where the 'new traits' messages can get spammy: if you just purchased or recovered a bunch of new ships all at once, then it takes very little XP to get their first set of traits, and I frequently see that trigger off exploration. Still, that's kindof a niche case, and it doesn't really bother me that much.

If I understand the feature correctly, you have to click through one proposal to get the next one, which adds tedium.
I'm pretty sure you're not understanding the feature correctly? At least, if it offers a sidegrade I don't care about, there doesn't seem to be any penalty from just letting it expire rather than tracking it down and explicitly saying 'no thanks'.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 19, 2022, 09:35:37 PM
Huh. I mean, sure, a lot of the sidegrade suggestions end up irrelevant - do I want to swap improved armor for improved shields on one of my freighters? Nah, don't care.

...But definitely not all of them. Will I swap improved armor for reduced supply usage on a freighter? Absolutely.

(And even for main combat ships - am I going to trade out 'Deadly' for anything else? Almost certainly not.)
Yeah, the default behavior will stay the same, but I think the option is easy enough to add in this case.

...That said, there are situations where the 'new traits' messages can get spammy: if you just purchased or recovered a bunch of new ships all at once, then it takes very little XP to get their first set of traits, and I frequently see that trigger off exploration. Still, that's kindof a niche case, and it doesn't really bother me that much.
Yeah, I'm not too concerned about those scenarios either.

If I understand the feature correctly, you have to click through one proposal to get the next one, which adds tedium.
I'm pretty sure you're not understanding the feature correctly? At least, if it offers a sidegrade I don't care about, there doesn't seem to be any penalty from just letting it expire rather than tracking it down and explicitly saying 'no thanks'.
Only one sidegrade suggestion is offered at once, so letting them expire might delay the next one. Not really a penalty, but some people might want to resolve them as soon as possible to make sure the next one isn't delayed.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: sirskips on December 31, 2022, 05:08:19 PM
Hey I found this dog running around does he belong to you?


package wisp.questgiver.wispLib

import com.fs.starfarer.api.GameState
import com.fs.starfarer.api.Global
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.CampaignUIAPI
import java.awt.Color

class CrashReporter(private val modName: String, private val modAuthor: String?, private val game: ServiceLocator) {
    /**
     * Originally created by Sundog in
     * [Starship Legends](https://bitbucket.org/Nate_NBJ/starship-legends/src/default/src/starship_legends/ModPlugin.java)
     */
    fun reportCrash(throwable: Throwable): Boolean {
        try {
            val message = "$modName encountered an error!\nPlease let ${modAuthor ?: "the mod author"} know."

            game.logger.e(throwable)

            if (game.combatEngine != null && Global.getCurrentState() === GameState.COMBAT) {
                game.combatEngine.combatUI.addMessage(1, Color.ORANGE, throwable.message)
                game.combatEngine.combatUI.addMessage(2, Color.RED, message)
            } else if (game.sector != null && Global.getCurrentState() === GameState.CAMPAIGN) {
                val ui: CampaignUIAPI = game.sector.campaignUI
                ui.addMessage(message, Color.RED)
                ui.addMessage(throwable.message, Color.ORANGE)
                ui.showConfirmDialog(message + "\n\n" + throwable.message, "Ok", null, null, null)

                if (ui.currentInteractionDialog != null) ui.currentInteractionDialog.dismiss()
            } else return false
            return true
        } catch (e: Exception) {
            return false
        }
    }
}
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 31, 2022, 08:47:57 PM
Hey I found this dog running around does he belong to you?
Nope. Looks like a friendly stray to me
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 02, 2023, 01:37:46 AM
If I understand the feature correctly, you have to click through one proposal to get the next one, which adds tedium.
I'm pretty sure you're not understanding the feature correctly? At least, if it offers a sidegrade I don't care about, there doesn't seem to be any penalty from just letting it expire rather than tracking it down and explicitly saying 'no thanks'.
Only one sidegrade suggestion is offered at once, so letting them expire might delay the next one. Not really a penalty, but some people might want to resolve them as soon as possible to make sure the next one isn't delayed.
Would it be possible to remove that "one side-grade at a time" limitation and just have just some interval between side grade suggestions? Like one per month (at 100 days, that up to 4 in the queue, all different ships) and/or at most one after every major fight. "Major" being fights that have objective points on the map, not including pursuit fights.

For the former, it'll weigh more toward civilian ships/ships that haven't deployed recently. After a fight would weigh more toward deployed ships in that fight (but not for ships that have or had a recent side-grade proposal).

I have to admit that having to pay attention to the log notices and immediately resolve them is kinda hit/miss with me. I sometimes miss the notices because they fly by before I even see them. (The "New" category in the logs needs like 30-day record or something. Right now, if you even just glance at it, it'll mostly clear itself the moment you view anything else.)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 03, 2023, 07:17:45 AM
Yeah, I think those are good reasons to remove the limit, although I'd like to avoid making it more complicated than "approximately one trait suggestion per month or so." I recall having a few good reasons to limit it to just one at a time, but I'm pretty sure they all had to do with simplifying the code rather than improving gameplay. I'll take a look and see what I can do. Shouldn't be a problem, but no promises.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on January 03, 2023, 09:42:31 AM
I mean, if you want to keep it one at a time, you could just have the timer until the next one's available start counting from when the previous one was offered instead of when the previous one was accepted/dismissed.

(Assuming that this is on a timer, likely with an RNG component to how long it is, and further assuming that the minimum time requirement is equal to or greater than the maximum duration before a trait swap option expires.)

...But making the offers independent might be cleaner? ./shrug. I haven't gone and looked at your code.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 03, 2023, 01:35:29 PM
I mean, if you want to keep it one at a time, you could just have the timer until the next one's available start counting from when the previous one was offered instead of when the previous one was accepted/dismissed.
That's actually exactly how it works. The only time there would ever be a delay is when a sidegrade suggestion remains unresolved so long that a new one would've popped up.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Modo44 on January 04, 2023, 02:10:41 AM
I'm sure different people will have different ideas as to what the "correct" intervals are. Maybe a player accessible setting would be useful here.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.1.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 04, 2023, 07:26:41 AM
I'm sure different people will have different ideas as to what the "correct" intervals are. Maybe a player accessible setting would be useful here.
It's already adjustable via "averageDaysBetweenTraitSidegradeSuggestions" in STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini
In the upcoming version this setting (along with most of the others) will be available via a proper in-game interface thanks to Lukas04's LunaLib (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25658.0).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 08, 2023, 05:13:53 PM
Starship Legends 2.2.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Not save compatible with versions prior to 2.0.0

Highlights:
Improved reputation growth to give players more control while also making legendary ships more uncommon/special
Integrated with LunaLib  (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25658.0)to add a settings menu
Added three new traits that affect loyalty loss chance, the best of which can only be earned by ships with rugged construction
Added ships lost by the player to the pool of possible derelicts for famous derelict salvage missions
Added integration features for the creation of new traits by other mods
Changed: AI cores are no longer affected by integration status (loyalty) unless fully integrated
Various fixes and improvements

Full change log for 2.2.0: https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/tag/v2.2.0
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Laf on January 08, 2023, 06:33:00 PM
Can anyone help me with this pls. Just updated the mod and created a new run
java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: starship_legends/LunaSettingsChangedListener
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 08, 2023, 08:26:56 PM
Sorry about that!
Looks like I added a LunaLib reference somewhere that causes issues when LunaLib isn't running. I'll get a fix out tonight.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 08, 2023, 08:45:52 PM
All fixed. Sorry for the trouble!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 10, 2023, 04:53:24 PM
Stupid question/request:
For the ship traits, would it be possible to, over time, have them slowly all work towards the Legendary multiplier? I've noticed that traits get better based on which ones came first. (So your first Notable traits will be your eventual Legendary traits.) Any way to get it so all your traits can be Legendary given enough time and XP without having to do a bunch of (re)coding, assuming this would would be a worthwhile change?

And while I'm here: Is the mod hardcoded for 4-levels/ranks, or can we add more ourselves to the relevant .CSV files? I kinda wanna add a fifth trait rank ("Mythical"? Mainly for one more set of traits) and maybe spread out the Crew Loyalty bonus with more ranks there as well.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 10, 2023, 08:21:52 PM
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you on both counts... Neither of those things are currently possible, and making them possible would require a significant restructuring of the code. The idea of all traits gradually working their way toward legendary is an interesting idea as an expanded progression mechanic. I'll keep it in mind in the future, but I'm rather fond of the way it works now. It doesn't make much of a practical difference, but I like how two ships with the exact same traits can still have different stats based on the trait order.

Adding new reputation tiers is something that is asked about and requested rather frequently, but the four tiers are so deeply built-in to the code that I'm not sure there's a way to make them expandable, short of a major overhaul. There might be a way to make it work that I haven't considered though, so I'll give it a think.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 11, 2023, 03:11:45 PM
Thank you for the reply. I totally get it. I figured it might require significant effort, so I'm not disappointed or anything. I just thought I'd throw that out there. Maybe when SS hits v1.0 or beyond. Or not. SS has a very extensive mod community for an Alpha game. I've seen plenty of mod go by the wayside as time passes. (I'm sad about Tartiflette distancing himself from SS, but I get why. Life goes on and all that.)

Still, thanks for the mod and your time!

P.S. I do hope the features from some mods make it into SS by default. Though, I can see that being a legal nightmare and something Alex may not want to deal with. RPG mechanics for individual ships is pretty fun, honestly (if a bit OP across several mods put together).
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 11, 2023, 04:34:56 PM
Thanks for understanding!  :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: darkwarrior1000 on January 14, 2023, 08:10:13 PM
In the most recent update the text for trait sidegrade suggestions that describes what a particular trait does has turned a very dark gray. This makes it difficult to read since there isn't much contrast between the dark gray text and the dark background of the intel screen menus. Could you revert it to white or use some other bright color so it stands out against the intel screen background?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 15, 2023, 08:10:09 AM
Yeah, I think that would be better. I'll change it. Not sure why I chose gray for that.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 15, 2023, 04:23:30 PM
Say, have you considered adding a HullMod for 0 (zero) OP called something like "Fixed Specs" or similar so ships stop asking for side-grades if they have a Trait set the player is happy with? Now that I have a far better chance at actually seeing and resolving the requests, I find myself resolving a lot of side-grades I don't want to change. (It's mainly for non-combat/logistics vessels that don't have many traits yet.)

NOTE: I have changed a few things about the mod (bumped up the trait count), which is probably why it's apparently favoring side-grades for my lesser-known utility ships (more side-grades to choose from), but I imagine that at some point, players will have a ship with traits they'll what to keep as-is. I also think it might help focus side-grades onto ships the player does what to have, though maybe it'll take longer between side-grade opportunities (for the same ship) with the smaller pool of eligible ships.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 15, 2023, 05:35:54 PM
Hmm... I wouldn't want to use a hullmod for it, but I suppose I could make it possible to prevent further sidegrade suggestions for specific ships by adding a new button to the sidegrade suggestion intel. I'll add that to the list of things to consider for future updates.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 15, 2023, 09:00:38 PM
The only reason I mentioned the option as a hullmod is because it would be easy to turn on/off for fleet management. This would make it possible to stop side-grades for utility/logistic ships that take a bit longer to accrue traits (but still earn the trait ranks) so you can concentrate on combat ships whose side-grades might be more important to swap.

Though if you want to make it a permanent decision... I can see that. Though I'd probably advocate for a small boost in trait power if you lock them in.

Or just an option to defer side-grades for a particular ship for like a year or so. I just don't know how much flexibility you either want to give a player or are even able to give them via the intel screen.

Or, if you're feeling generous, both: some method to pause side-grade suggestions, then when a player feels like they have the right traits for a ship, lock them in and maybe get a Rank bonus (in terms of effectiveness) or something.

"Fixed Specs/Locked Design: The ship's crew can no longer tinker with the ship's systems at will. Since they can't changes the specs anymore, they've learned to exploit their ship's quirks to the fullest. Effectiveness of all traits increased by 1 Rank."

Just throwing out ideas. I just hope it's something worthwhile to/for you given the effort needed to implement it. (Assuming any of it is a good idea to begin with.)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 15, 2023, 11:16:22 PM
I do think it's a worthwhile goal to give players more ways to prevent sidegrade suggestions they don't care about, although I don't consider it a priority. The trouble is that it's simply very difficult to implement an interface that's well suited for that purpose. A 0 OP hullmod would work, as you suggest, but that would have several downsides (chiefly, that a lot of people find that kind of workaround off-putting). A button in the intel panel would have disadvantages, too, like the permanence of it, as you pointed out. I'm not aware of a solution that I think would be worthwhile, at the moment, so for now I'll just sit on the issue until/unless that changes.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on January 16, 2023, 12:00:51 AM
Obviously*, the optimal** solution here is to introduce a third, story-point-costing option to the bar event where you talk to your officers, where you get to say "No, that ship is perfect as she is."

* Not actually obvious.
** Probably not optimal, either.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 16, 2023, 12:25:12 AM
I do think it's a worthwhile goal to give players more ways to prevent sidegrade suggestions they don't care about, although I don't consider it a priority. The trouble is that it's simply very difficult to implement an interface that's well suited for that purpose.[Emphasis Added] A 0 OP hullmod would work, as you suggest, but that would have several downsides (chiefly, that a lot of people find that kind of workaround off-putting). A button in the intel panel would have disadvantages, too, like the permanence of it, as you pointed out. I'm not aware of a solution that I think would be worthwhile, at the moment, so for now I'll just sit on the issue until/unless that changes.
I figure that would be the case given the game's state and current design priorities. It'd be nice if you could hack into the Fleet screen and add another ship-state button akin to "Stop Repairs" or "Mothball". Wonder if there's an API for that or if Alex would float the idea of adding one if there isn't... (Because now that I think about, there are a few things I would love to have added to the fleet management screen...)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 16, 2023, 07:17:04 AM
I think the best way to go about it might be to add a "prevent sidegrade suggestions" button to sidegrade intel items that would also prevent them from expiring and add a button for re-enabling suggestions.

Obviously*, the optimal** solution here is to introduce a third, story-point-costing option to the bar event where you talk to your officers, where you get to say "No, that ship is perfect as she is."

* Not actually obvious.
** Probably not optimal, either.
Yeah, giving some sort of order is the direction I'm thinking in, too, but I'd prefer for an option like this to be more freely available, and to be reversible.

It'd be nice if you could hack into the Fleet screen and add another ship-state button akin to "Stop Repairs" or "Mothball". Wonder if there's an API for that or if Alex would float the idea of adding one if there isn't...
I'm fairly certain the API doesn't provide a method for that. Might be worth suggesting. I'm sure it could be done anyway, but probably not in a way I'd be willing to implement.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 16, 2023, 12:14:37 PM
I think the best way to go about it might be to add a "prevent sidegrade suggestions" button to sidegrade intel items that would also prevent them from expiring and add a button for re-enabling suggestions.

I can see that, given what we can work with now. Would you need to add another category to the Intel filters to make it easier to track those decisions? I currently look under "Important" to find side-grade requests. Don't recall if there was another category I could find them under.

It'd be nice if you could hack into the Fleet screen and add another ship-state button akin to "Stop Repairs" or "Mothball". Wonder if there's an API for that or if Alex would float the idea of adding one if there isn't...
I'm fairly certain the API doesn't provide a method for that. Might be worth suggesting. I'm sure it could be done anyway, but probably not in a way I'd be willing to implement.

If it has to be done on the modder's side, sound like something for the likes of LazyLib rather than your mod. It seems like something all the modders could use if they want/need it.

Oh, any thoughts on adding an option to make the Trait and Loyalty multipliers multiplicative with each other rather than additive for us tinkerers? Or do you prefer the flat additive feature for a reason?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 17, 2023, 05:25:01 PM
Would you need to add another category to the Intel filters to make it easier to track those decisions? I currently look under "Important" to find side-grade requests. Don't recall if there was another category I could find them under.
They're under the "fleet log" category. I try to avoid using new intel tags since that real estate is already very cluttered.

Oh, any thoughts on adding an option to make the Trait and Loyalty multipliers multiplicative with each other rather than additive for us tinkerers? Or do you prefer the flat additive feature for a reason?
Are you requesting a setting to make loyalty multiply the effects of traits instead of adding to them? If so, I'm afraid it's not in the cards. Options that allow variables to be adjusted is one thing, but adding alternative formulas compounds the work required to test and maintain the code by quite a bit. Generally I prefer for numbers to interact in additive ways because it makes things cleaner (in terms of both UI and game mechanics) and easier to understand/explain.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: StahnAileron on January 17, 2023, 11:23:18 PM
They're under the "fleet log" category. I try to avoid using new intel tags since that real estate is already very cluttered.
"Cluttered" is putting it lightly when you have a sizeable number of mods installed... ::)

Are you requesting a setting to make loyalty multiply the effects of traits instead of adding to them? If so, I'm afraid it's not in the cards. Options that allow variables to be adjusted is one thing, but adding alternative formulas compounds the work required to test and maintain the code by quite a bit. Generally I prefer for numbers to interact in additive ways because it makes things cleaner (in terms of both UI and game mechanics) and easier to understand/explain.
Sure thing. I get it if you're trying to stick with "Simple is best." ;D

Thanks for giving me your time and all the effort put into the mod! :D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 18, 2023, 02:40:47 AM
Thanks for giving me your time and all the effort put into the mod! :D
And thanks for your feedback! It means a lot :)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Fordo on January 18, 2023, 04:27:51 PM
Added ships lost by the player to the pool of possible derelicts for famous derelict salvage missions
I think I've encountered an issue/bug with this new feature. Intact ships I've left in storage at the Abandoned Terraforming Platform at Asharu are being considered "destroyed" or "lost" by the mod, so I will sometimes get bar storytellers telling me about where to find them in some far off nebula... and when I dismiss the mission and go back to storage to check on the ship in question, it's still there, but heavily damaged and with new D-mods as if it were the derelict.

I'd tried doing one of these salvage missions on a unique ship, hoping through oversight it would somehow entreat me to a copy (so I would then have two), but it just pulled the exact same ship out of storage and made the whole journey a bit silly.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 18, 2023, 08:55:13 PM
Thanks for bringing that to my attention! The mod is supposed to check all storage locations to check if the ship was lost or merely stored. At one point I confirmed that the check included abandoned storage locations, but I guess I must've broken that somehow. Sorry about the d-mods!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 19, 2023, 12:20:35 AM
Starship Legends 2.2.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Not save compatible with versions prior to 2.0.0

- Fixed bar patrons sometimes thinking one of the player's ships is a lost derelict, when in reality it's just stored at an abandoned station
- Fixed ships with maxed out traits not being chosen for sidegrade suggestions
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: rogerbacon on January 19, 2023, 12:27:31 PM
I just tried to add  "Carter's Freetraders" mod and when I try to run the game I get this error message. Starship Legends has been running fine until I tried to add this one in. I posted in that thread but I'm posting here as well just to make you aware of a possible incompatibility issue.

(https://i.ibb.co/V25DQsz/temp.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
monopoly multiplayer unblocked (https://freeonlinedice.com/)

Great mod, by the way.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dazs on January 19, 2023, 02:40:20 PM
Sundog,

I have installed the latest update and am not having the issue as stated above. I am honestly confused at the error message as it calls for line 445 which CFTmodPlugin does not have. And when I look under Starship Legends code I do not see a pathway to data/scripts but there is a file in the JAR starship_legends\Util$1.class which it may be referencing.

Below is my code for CFTmodPlugin (which should have no interaction with your mod) if that helps:

Spoiler

package data.scripts;

import com.fs.starfarer.api.BaseModPlugin;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.Global;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.PluginPick;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.CampaignPlugin;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.econ.MarketAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.StarSystemAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.characters.PersonAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.ids.Skills;
import data.scripts.world.CFT_gen;
import exerelin.campaign.SectorManager;

public class CFTmodPlugin extends BaseModPlugin {

    @Override
    public void onNewGame() {
   boolean haveNexerelin = Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("nexerelin");
   if (!haveNexerelin || SectorManager.getManager().getCorvusMode()){
            new CFT_gen().generate(Global.getSector());
        }
    }
 
}
   
[close]

 I am honestly stumped and perhaps you could shed some light.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 19, 2023, 05:58:26 PM
Huh. Well that's quite baffling. I haven't managed to reproduce the crash either.

@rogerbacon: Thank you for reporting this! It might be worth reinstalling both mods (being careful to completely delete both mods prior to replacing them). With how strange that error is, it almost seems like some files got scrambled somehow.

If that doesn't work, would you mind walking us through what happened between the last time the game worked correctly and the first occurrence of the crash? If I understand correctly, Starsector crashed with this error while the game (not a save file) was loading after you enabled the latest version of Carter's Freetraders for the first time. Is there anything else that might've been relevant?

@Dazs: Yeah, I'm having a hard time figuring out how our mods even intersect here. I can't find a reference to data/scripts/util.java at all. The class starship_legends\Util$1 is a comparitor that is only used in the constructor for battle reports, and I don't see any reference to it (or anything starship legends related, for that matter) in your scripts. My best guess is that a script that uses a function from starship_legends.Util somehow ended up in the files for rogerbacon's install of CFT, causing Janino to get confused.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: turtlebacons on January 20, 2023, 02:58:59 PM
hey! love your mod and have always included them in my runs since i started playing which I'm pretty sure has been since 2019-2020, great work on it, and the reason i'm writing this is that i have a HUGE issue that breaks this mod.

i suspect it's realistic combat mod that conflicts with this mod as it's the only mod that changes most combat-related events. as for the issue it's this: none of the battles register, they happen but when i see the battle log it shows as if none of my ships did any damage or receive any, it only logs when a ship is destroyed and this is extremely annoying as i will quickly get insubordinate crews and negative buffs.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 20, 2023, 07:12:48 PM
Hey, thanks for pointing that out! This is the first time I've heard about this incompatibility, but apparently Liral already knows about it. That exact issue is listed in the compatibility section of the original post for Realistic Combat. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything we can reasonably do to fix it (edit: Actually, it looks like Liral may have been kind enough to make it reasonable for me to fix this. I'll look into doing so), so I'll list the problem in the description of starship legends as well.


Not gaining XP from damage dealt will slow down the rate at which loyalty and reputation improve, but loyalty only decreases when ships are disabled (as of version 2). To compensate for the reduction in XP from damage, you might want to consider increasing XP from other sources. You can use the in-game options menu provided by LunaLib (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25658.0) to easily make adjustments.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: turtlebacons on January 23, 2023, 01:00:34 PM
Hey, thanks for pointing that out! This is the first time I've heard about this incompatibility, but apparently Liral already knows about it. That exact issue is listed in the compatibility section of the original post for Realistic Combat. Unfortunately, I don't think there's anything we can reasonably do to fix it (edit: Actually, it looks like Liral may have been kind enough to make it reasonable for me to fix this. I'll look into doing so), so I'll list the problem in the description of starship legends as well.


Not gaining XP from damage dealt will slow down the rate at which loyalty and reputation improve, but loyalty only decreases when ships are disabled (as of version 2). To compensate for the reduction in XP from damage, you might want to consider increasing XP from other sources. You can use the in-game options menu provided by LunaLib (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25658.0) to easily make adjustments.

thank you! i wish you best of luck on you and your current/future mods
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 23, 2023, 01:52:39 PM
Thanks!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: CapnHector on January 25, 2023, 05:12:00 AM
Hi, this is from version 2.1.2 but I didn't see a change in the changelog so I thought I'd post it. The last line in orange doesn't seem right, or the note about losing crew for that matter.

(https://i.ibb.co/gFxJXrJ/image.png) (https://ibb.co/yBrqMNq)

Also, I really appreciate this mod, it's a great addition that the ships have a personality, thanks.

Edit: nevermind, found it in the changelog for 2.2.0.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Fordo on January 25, 2023, 03:59:58 PM
Finding: A ship I sacrificed to an Engineering Hub from Industrial.Evolution was rediscovered by a storyteller floating in a nearby system. I recovered it and took it back to a Repair Dock, also from Ind.Evo, and I got another storyteller for the same ship while it was sitting in that "storage". This is probably an obvious limitation -- Starship Legends can't be expected to account for new storage facilities and ways of losing/sacrificing ships in every other mod -- but it was amusing so I figured I'd share.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 25, 2023, 05:17:46 PM
Also, I really appreciate this mod, it's a great addition that the ships have a personality, thanks.
Glad to hear that! I really appreciate your scientific contributions to the body of Starsector-related knowledge  ;D

Finding: A ship I sacrificed to an Engineering Hub from Industrial.Evolution was rediscovered by a storyteller floating in a nearby system. I recovered it and took it back to a Repair Dock, also from Ind.Evo, and I got another storyteller for the same ship while it was sitting in that "storage". This is probably an obvious limitation -- Starship Legends can't be expected to account for new storage facilities and ways of losing/sacrificing ships in every other mod -- but it was amusing so I figured I'd share.
Thanks for sharing! I was concerned things like that might happen. The only way I can check if a ship was "lost" is to search anywhere a player might still have it, which can get pretty unreliable when other mods come into play. For the sake of compatibility, I think I'll add a setting to toggle previously owned ships becoming famous derelicts and set it to false by default.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Euripides on January 26, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
How long do famous derelicts/fleets last?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 26, 2023, 05:45:15 PM
Good question. I'll add it to the Q&A section of the OP.

The answer is that it's a bit complicated.

Derelicts will typically last forever unless an NPC fleet is trying to recover it. If that's the case, the time remaining is noted in the intel screen (typically up to 72 days). Even after the NPC fleet recovers the derelict you can still recover it by fighting them before they return home and despawn. If the NPC fleet is destroyed for any reason prior to recovering the derelict, then the derelict will last forever.

Famous flagships and the fleets they belong to already exist before the bar event occurs. Starships legends does nothing to change the behavior of those fleets, so it doesn't control how long they last, aside from trying to choose fleets that won't be destroyed or despawn too soon.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: TimeDiver on February 13, 2023, 05:37:43 PM
Sundog, ever since this mod was updated for v0.95a and newer (so, v1.5.0 and newer) it now seems to override the XP multiplier that would normally result from lopsided battles via your Ruthless Sector mod; I've tried adjusting as many of Starship Legends' own XP multipliers (via the LunaLib in-game menu) to 1.0 to see if it would compensate, but no go.

I've done this because I am far too impatient to build up reputation the 'intended' way, and picking lopsided fights (that is, lopsided against my fleet) to get rep gains in the double-digit range... and using Console Commands to adjust the faction reputations is too far for me.

Is there a setting in either of those two mods of yours that would let Ruthless Sector's post-battle XP multipliers have higher priority than those of Starship Legends? Or would that require a re-compile via the Java SDK (or similar) after editing the source files?

EDIT: Pardon, it seems that I've misunderstood how these mods interact; adjusting those multipliers in Starship Legends only affects the gain of traits and ship/officer loyalty, NOT player/officer levels and reputation. Now I have to go through each and every one of Ruthless Sector's .ini file settings to see which one will work instead...
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: noname1208 on February 13, 2023, 06:19:36 PM
Hello Sundog!

First and foremost I want to thank you for this mod, it's a lot of fun and adds a lot to the general gameplay <3

Secondly I came across a bug though I'm not certain on which mod may have caused this bug or if it's potentially a vanilla thing. I lost a huge battle and set myself back many cycles of work and later on I came across a story teller telling me about my previous flagship. In the description window it showed one of my officers which I assumed had been piloting it at the time though I swear it was my own ship at the time. I can't remember.

When I get to the ship I see the officer icon still there and when I recover the ship I realize it's *duplicated* my officer with the ship. The officer does not show up in the officer list and does not count towards maximum officers but if I change the officer of that ship it moves the clone to the ship that the officer was in. The clone does exist in the ship itself and enhances the ship as if she were a true officer.

Now this is a UAF ship and it just so happens to be one of the two unique elite UAF officers that was duplicated so it could be on that end too. I'm not sure how your mod works on the back end. Should I instead report this to Ryxsen? I'm sorry if this is a repost, I didn't see anything about duplicated officers in the search function.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 14, 2023, 05:11:24 PM
[snip] adjusting those multipliers in Starship Legends only affects the gain of traits and ship/officer loyalty, NOT player/officer levels and reputation.
That's correct.

Now I have to go through each and every one of Ruthless Sector's .ini file settings to see which one will work instead...
Sounds like you're looking for this:
Code
	# XP MULTIPLIER CALCULATION #
# Only relevant if scaleXpGainBasedOnBattleDifficulty is true
# The XP Multiplier for each battle is calculated as follows:
# (strengthOfAllEnemyShips / strengthOfDeployedPlayerShips - minDifficultyToEarnXp) * xpMultiplierAfterReduction
"minDifficultyToEarnXp":0.5,
"xpMultiplierAfterReduction":3.0,

First and foremost I want to thank you for this mod, it's a lot of fun and adds a lot to the general gameplay <3
;D

In the description window it showed one of my officers which I assumed had been piloting it at the time though I swear it was my own ship at the time. I can't remember.
Perhaps you transferred to it before/during the battle?

Now this is a UAF ship and it just so happens to be one of the two unique elite UAF officers that was duplicated so it could be on that end too. I'm not sure how your mod works on the back end. Should I instead report this to Ryxsen?
Unless the officer is somehow tied to the ship in some special way, the bug is almost certainly caused by starship legends. If that turns out not to be the case I'll get in touch with Ryxsen. Thank you for reporting!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: noname1208 on February 14, 2023, 07:09:05 PM
I'm 80% sure I was piloting the ship through the whole battle but that's not all that helpful to you ^_^'

As far as I know she shouldn't be tied to that specific ship unless there is some coded connection. It was a Lillaru class Heavy Cruiser which is common on the market and the officer didn't come with any ship when I got her

If you need any material I did happen to take a couple screenshots of the storyteller before I salvaged the ship, showing off Starsector to a friend, and I took more after I realized what had happened. Or even the current save come to think of it.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 14, 2023, 07:40:24 PM
It's kind of you to offer those files! I'm pretty sure I know what's going wrong, so in this case I don't think they will be necessary, but I'll let you know if I change my mind.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 20, 2023, 07:28:46 AM
If you need any material I did happen to take a couple screenshots of the storyteller before I salvaged the ship, showing off Starsector to a friend, and I took more after I realized what had happened.
Hey, so would you still be able to send those screenshots? I sent you a PM a few days ago but I think you might not have noticed it. I haven't managed to reproduce the issue you had and I suspect that I've misinterpreted how the issue cam about.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: noname1208 on February 21, 2023, 07:41:10 PM
Yeah no problem, sorry about that. I kind of forgot PMs were a thing
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 27, 2023, 12:43:02 PM
Starship Legends 2.2.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Not save compatible with versions prior to 2.0.0

Fixed loyalty toward officers that are temporarily removed from the fleet sometimes being forgotten
Fixed: lost player owned ships will now only be chosen for "famous derelict" stories if they were actually lost in battle
Fixed a bug that would break some famous flagship rumors, turning them into bogus stories
Fixed the possibility for officers to be partially cloned under specific, rare circumstances
Updated LunaSettings integration to be fully compatible with LunaLib version 1.3.X
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: herkul121 on March 02, 2023, 06:06:39 PM
This mod is Brutal if You are running wolfpack of couple of frigates. What I mean I was using like 19 grims from no such organization (Wolf frigate but with ion pulsar and phase ship) with officers as they die alot they get a lot debuffs for their Peak time and there is no way to reset captains relations with its crew. So I head grim with couple of d-mods nothing special openly hostile crew and some famous traits on it. As I spawn that frig in It screams its out of peak performance and have to hop out of battle. Rest will follow shortly after it. This mod is best if You plan to do Capital ships run. I really like idea of this mod however this mod single handedly did ruin my run. Is it possible for me to disable debuffs on my ships? I want to fix my game?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: TimeDiver on March 02, 2023, 06:25:15 PM
I really like idea of this mod however this mod single handedly did ruin my run. Is it possible for me to disable debuffs on my ships? I want to fix my game?
1. Download/extract the Console Commands mod from the following thread: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0

2. In-game, after loading the saved game, make use of the ClearRep console command (to open the console, the default hotkey combo is Ctrl + Backspace).

Example: ClearRep All will remove all traits from all ships in your current fleet, or ClearRep <insert ship name> will remove traits from just that one ship.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 02, 2023, 06:57:23 PM
^ Yup. If you want a clean slate for loyalties you can use "setLoyalty 0 all"
You can prevent any debuffs from accrueing by editing the settings file or using the LunaLib settings menu. Just set "max initial negative traits" and "max loyalty lost" to 0.
Capital ships aren't the only ships that can avoid being disabled. Wolf packs can actually be extremely effective.

Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Volsungare on March 14, 2023, 01:24:41 PM
Would it be possible to add a feature (that can be toggled off if people don't want it), that sets ships to Notable once they reach legendary status?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 14, 2023, 08:04:57 PM
Hmm... you mean like a way to prestige ships? If so it's on my list of new features to consider. I haven't ironed out enough of the details yet to start working on something like that, though, and it's pretty low on my list of priorities. My main hang up with the idea is trying to figure out a plausible in-fiction explanation for how/why it would work that way (not to mention how to explain it to players). So I might make something like that someday, but probably not any time soon.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Volsungare on March 21, 2023, 02:19:08 PM
Hmm... you mean like a way to prestige ships? If so it's on my list of new features to consider. I haven't ironed out enough of the details yet to start working on something like that, though, and it's pretty low on my list of priorities. My main hang up with the idea is trying to figure out a plausible in-fiction explanation for how/why it would work that way (not to mention how to explain it to players). So I might make something like that someday, but probably not any time soon.

Not so much prestige, but as a game play element. If your ship(s) is/are so famous stories are being told, it should be recognizable even with transponder off. Wouldn't it be along the lines of "if ship is of rank legendary, apply unique tag" and have it set to run on rankup and/or do a check before initiating battle?
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 22, 2023, 08:12:33 AM
Ah, ok. That's been brought up before and I think it could be a neat option. It would need to be off by default for several reasons, but I think you're the third person to suggest it? I'll look into adding it for the next major update, but no promises!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Volsungare on March 22, 2023, 08:16:43 AM
Ah, ok. That's been brought up before and I think it could be a neat option. It would need to be off by default for several reasons, but I think you're the third person to suggest it? I'll look into adding it for the next major update, but no promises!

Agreed it would need to be off by default, would probably *** off too many people. Thanks for listening to the idea.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: krisslanza on March 22, 2023, 11:19:04 AM
Ah, ok. That's been brought up before and I think it could be a neat option. It would need to be off by default for several reasons, but I think you're the third person to suggest it? I'll look into adding it for the next major update, but no promises!

To be honest, I already thought it kinda worked that way. It would make sense.
I can understand it being a toggle though, for sure.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Justinx931 on March 23, 2023, 01:22:58 PM
all my ships are stuck at famous tier with traitpairspertier: 2, i changed it to 3 previous game then changed it back to 2 on new game and been stuck to famous since.

the rumored next traits are at 0% which is odd as well, the XP to next tier is already over the limit when i turned the option to see the xp thing. (unless K is lesser than M)

(https://i.imgur.com/uxK1cmE.jpg)

i searched the topic and saw someone with the same issue, but that was a awhile ago. same as the dude, i console in addtrait and it gets bumped up to legendary.

Edit: two of my ships seemed to have reached legendary on their own anyway: sierra and lions guard conquest, but sierra has 2 pairs of traits while conquest only 1 pair, idk what's going on with that.

also had this for There be Juggernaut's Overslaught ship on its module, didn't had a error with another ship with modules(first persean empire niemowle)
(https://i.imgur.com/J8NDK8z.jpg)
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 23, 2023, 04:54:54 PM
the rumored next traits are at 0% which is odd as well, the XP to next tier is already over the limit when i turned the option to see the xp thing. (unless K is lesser than M)
Rumored traits don't provide any effect, so it's normal for them to say +0%. The number is there mostly just to let you know whether it will be positive or negative. K is for thousand (from the Kilo prefix, I guess) and M is for million, so there's nothing wrong there. The xp required for each tier is exponential, so it's normal for legendary traits to take much longer to get than famous ones.

Edit: two of my ships seemed to have reached legendary on their own anyway: sierra and lions guard conquest, but sierra has 2 pairs of traits while conquest only 1 pair, idk what's going on with that.
Not sure what you mean. Does Sierra have 4 traits and the conquest has 2, even though they're both considered legendary?

also had this for There be Juggernaut's Overslaught ship on its module, didn't had a error with another ship with modules(first persean empire niemowle)
I'll see if I can figure out what's going wrong there. Thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Justinx931 on March 24, 2023, 06:44:27 AM
the rumored next traits are at 0% which is odd as well, the XP to next tier is already over the limit when i turned the option to see the xp thing. (unless K is lesser than M)
Rumored traits don't provide any effect, so it's normal for them to say +0%. The number is there mostly just to let you know whether it will be positive or negative. K is for thousand (from the Kilo prefix, I guess) and M is for million, so there's nothing wrong there. The xp required for each tier is exponential, so it's normal for legendary traits to take much longer to get than famous ones.

Edit: two of my ships seemed to have reached legendary on their own anyway: sierra and lions guard conquest, but sierra has 2 pairs of traits while conquest only 1 pair, idk what's going on with that.
Not sure what you mean. Does Sierra have 4 traits and the conquest has 2, even though they're both considered legendary?

also had this for There be Juggernaut's Overslaught ship on its module, didn't had a error with another ship with modules(first persean empire niemowle)
I'll see if I can figure out what's going wrong there. Thanks for letting me know!

Hello and thanks for the reply, apparently i was just confused on some ships not getting the full traits on legendary, the "progress to next tier" is what i was following to get to legendary, and it goes away after getting the first pair of traits, theres no indication on when the 2nd pair will show up(atleast to my knowing), since legendary requires so much xp i just assumed something was wrong with ships not getting the last pair of legendary traits.

Cleared up for me when i finally went and did all the HVB and IBB's around to get the bulk of XP.

thanks for clearing up the xp thing, i'll see if traitspertier 3 works correctly next run too.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 24, 2023, 07:23:22 AM
the "progress to next tier" is what i was following to get to legendary, and it goes away after getting the first pair of traits
Ah, you must've been referring to the first pair of *legendary* traits! If the "progress to next tier" statement goes away before getting max traits that's something I should fix. I'll rename it to "progress to next pair of traits" and make it work as such. Thanks for pointing that out!

i'll see if traitspertier 3 works correctly next run too.
Fair warning: it won't! From the settings file:
Quote
"traitPairsPerTier":1, # 1 or 2. 1 is recommended. 2 will result in atypical trait selection. 3 will result in ships not being able to get the max number of traits
There simply aren't enough trait types for most ships to get so many traits. I'll consider enabling duplicate traits in such cases, if it turns out to be feasible.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Justinx931 on March 25, 2023, 11:03:31 AM
There simply aren't enough trait types for most ships to get so many traits. I'll consider enabling duplicate traits in such cases, if it turns out to be feasible.

can't it just use civ trait's when you run out of the combat ships trait? i do have 0.9 chance of skipping civ traits on combat ships but when there's nothing else it should just pull from the civilian trait pool.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 25, 2023, 11:34:38 AM
It should already be doing that. I just did a quick test and that's the behavior I'm getting. Are you seeing something different?

edit: While testing this I was getting fewer total traits than expected, so I did some digging and found out that the code for determining traits includes a flawed check for duplicates. Normally it wouldn't cause any issues, but if traitPairsPerTier is 3 or more then it will effectively limit the number of traits you can get. The next update will include a fix!
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Dazs on April 15, 2023, 02:37:56 PM
Hi Sundog, I recently received a crash report on the Hiver Swarm forum that deals with an interaction between Hiver and Starship Legends. I am baffled by it myself since I use this mod alongside Hiver with no issues and the code from the crash report makes references to things that are not in either mod as far as I can see. Here is a copy of the crash they reported on the Hiver Forum:
Code
88494 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:226)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:178)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
... 2 more
Caused by: org.codehaus.commons.compiler.CompileException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileError(UnitCompiler.java:10174)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:419)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:658)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:622)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.access$200(UnitCompiler.java:185)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler$2.visitAnonymousClassDeclaration(UnitCompiler.java:345)
at org.codehaus.janino.Java$AnonymousClassDeclaration.accept(Java.java:894)

Maybe you can help rogerbacon (the player who reported the crash) better than I can.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on April 16, 2023, 04:02:57 AM
Just replied in the Hiver thread, since that's where it was originally reported:
@rogerbacon: This issue seems very similar to the one you had a few months ago: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.msg385922#msg385922

Did my suggestion about reinstalling both mods work in that case? Unfortunately I still can't offer much advice other than that. Like Dazs, I'm not getting any issues when I use Hiver and starship legends together, and I'm not aware of anyone other than you getting this particular type of error.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: CapnHector on May 01, 2023, 03:15:08 AM
Hi, this event was spawned in 2.2.1 (turns out I am really lazy at updating) but it does not seem in the changelog that you fixed this and updating to 2.2.2 did not change the wording.

(https://i.ibb.co/YymrXnk/Screenshot-2023-05-01-130631.png) (https://ibb.co/4YzQ2vT)

Some things
1) They are asking to buy an automated ship (this is fine by me but it is in fact illegal, I guess it is intentional because this part is correctly worded)
2) There is still a reference to the crew of the ship here
3) Selling the ship does not give any bonus XP, which seems to make selling it a really bad move considering that it has 3 S-mods
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2023, 07:59:47 AM
Thanks for pointing that out! Pretty sure it's an oversight that hasn't been fixed in 2.2.2. Not sure if I'll update the wording or just exclude automated ships from this event entirely, given how awkward it is in such cases. As for S-mods and bonus-xp, the offer amount is increased by 1 credit for every 5 bonus xp you would get for scuttling the ship. That ratio probably needs to be increased quite a bit and I'll take a look at doing so, but I'm ok with these offers not being *particularly* enticing. They're mostly just there to make famous ships seem famous. I try to stay away from anything to do with bonus xp mostly for reasons of personal preference. I generally really like the SP system, but bonus xp has always struck me as nothing but a needlessly complex way to split SP.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: CapnHector on May 02, 2023, 09:33:54 PM
Honestly, thinking about it, being able to sell automated ships is kind of flavorful, although it will probably be such a rare occurrence that it's quite reasonable if you just remove it. But if you keep it it could be somehow extra risky or have a Tri-Tachyon or Pirate flavor.

Not giving out bonus XP is fine (it is a weird system) and the encounter serving to illustrate your ship's reputation is fine. If it's meant to be a legitimate offer though, I think an acceptable rate for a triple S-modded rare (not obtainable through markets) ship would be about 10x this, so to the tune of 1-1.5 million credits. Then it would roughly correspond to the effort to get a new one.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 02, 2023, 11:41:53 PM
Yeah, I like the idea of being able to sell automated ships in special events like this as well, but I'd want to do it right, and that would take a non-trivial amount of work. For now I've prevented the event from choosing automated ships, but I've added "lore-friendly buy-offers for automated ships" to my todo list. Hopefully I'll be able to do the idea justice before too long.

I agree that 1 to 1.5 mil is a much more reasonable offer. One of the main problems is that the xp bonus refund varies wildly based on when the s-mods were built-in. It could be as much as 1 mil xp per s-mod or less than 7,000 xp. As much as I like to stick with vanilla conventions wherever possible, I'm very tempted to simply increase the offer by $500k per s-mod, regardless of how much xp was actually invested in it. Maybe I'll do that if Alex removes the bonus xp refund for installing low-OP hullmods now that he's implemented Better Deserved S-Mods.
Title: Re: [0.95.1a] Starship Legends 2.2.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: VolturnianMobster on May 07, 2023, 06:11:00 AM
Thank you a lot for this fantastic mod, Sundog. I really appreciate your quick responses and bugfixes in this thread too :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 07, 2023, 09:10:24 AM
Starship Legends 2.3.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
Please note that this version has not yet been thoroughly tested with Starsector 0.96a

- Updated for Starsector 0.96a
- Updated LunaLib support to take advantage of new features
- Fixed the max number of traits a ship could get being unnecessarily limited with increased traitPairsPerTier setting
- Fixed: Captains at bars no longer offer to buy automated ships.
- Fixed progress text not being displayed after getting the first legendary trait pair when traitPairsPerTier is set higher than 1
- Changed: Captains at bars offering to buy ships now pay much more for ships with s-mods
- Changed: The max CR of ships with integrated AI cores is no longer reduced by low integration status

Thank you a lot for this fantastic mod, Sundog. I really appreciate your quick responses and bugfixes in this thread too :)
;D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: TalRaziid on May 09, 2023, 07:03:47 PM
- Changed: The max CR of ships with integrated AI cores is no longer reduced by low integration status
  Spark my memory, integrated AI cores are just AI cores on automated ships as officers, oooor?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 09, 2023, 08:41:38 PM
Not quite, no. It wasn't this way in older versions of Starsector (I think before 0.95.1a?), but you can spend a story point to "fully integrate" an AI core into an automated ship. This gives the core an extra skill, but makes it so it can never be removed. To smooth out some problems with how integration status (the AI version of loyalty) works, I made it so that only "fully integrated" AI cores can gain or lose loyalty. So that change doesn't matter for cores that aren't fully integrated.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Havoc on May 19, 2023, 05:21:57 AM
hi, where can I disable negative traits?
I've tried in the .ini and in lunasettings.csv
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 19, 2023, 04:44:57 PM
If you're using LunaLib you'll want to set both "Maximum Initial Negative Traits" and "Minimum Initial Negative Traits" to 0 using the in-game interface. LunaSettings.csv isn't something you should ever need to edit. If not using LunaLib you can open STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini and change this:
Quote
   "maxInitialNegativeTraits":4,
   "minInitialNegativeTraits":1,
...to this:
Quote
   "maxInitialNegativeTraits":0,
   "minInitialNegativeTraits":0,
glhf!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Havoc on May 21, 2023, 09:41:09 AM
I had
Quote
# REPUTATION GROWTH #
   "maxInitialNegativeTraits":0,
   "minInitialNegativeTraits":0,
   "minNegativeTraits":0, #1# This is the minimum number of negative traits a ship may have due to events
but still negative traits

is it possible that it is still somewhere overwritten?

edit:
in the ingame menue it was still 4;1;1;
now I set it to 0

thanks

edit2:
on restart it changes again to 4;1;1,
lol ,forgot savebutton in the menue
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 21, 2023, 11:22:37 AM
Yeah, LunaLib settings take precedence over OPTIONS.ini settings
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Question Mark on May 23, 2023, 07:27:38 AM
Starship Legends 1.5.3 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Changed: Made a few trait/hullmod combinations incompatible (for example, shield traits are now incompatible with Shield Shunt)

Hi, this doesn't seem to be working in the current version (2.3.0) on Starsector 0.96RC10.

I have an Onslaught with S-modded Shield Shunt installed and it's getting shield trait sidegrade suggestions. Haven't seen any bar events for it so I don't know if those are also affected.
I'm also using Progressive S-Mods (https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=23006.0) mod in case it's a potential source of incompatibility.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: FreyjaKitty on May 23, 2023, 09:56:35 AM
I love how much character this mod adds!

Trading war stories with other grizzled vets after cycles of bloody strife is an absolutely incredible feeling that helps the roleplaying aspect as much as it does give opportunities to find new and exciting ships. Thank you very much for all your hard work!

Oh, and almost forgot to add, I love the modularity of the mod settings, fantastic work on that!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 24, 2023, 10:24:27 AM
I have an Onslaught with S-modded Shield Shunt installed and it's getting shield trait sidegrade suggestions.
I just found the issue and fixed it up for the next update. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

I love how much character this mod adds!

Trading war stories with other grizzled vets after cycles of bloody strife is an absolutely incredible feeling that helps the roleplaying aspect as much as it does give opportunities to find new and exciting ships. Thank you very much for all your hard work!

Oh, and almost forgot to add, I love the modularity of the mod settings, fantastic work on that!
Glad you enjoy the mod! It's very kind of you to take the time to say so. Thank you!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Question Mark on May 24, 2023, 06:49:37 PM
I have an Onslaught with S-modded Shield Shunt installed and it's getting shield trait sidegrade suggestions.
I just found the issue and fixed it up for the next update. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
Cheers. Similar if not the same issue also applies to ships with S-modded Safety Overrides (possible with Progressive S-mods) getting vent traits.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 25, 2023, 10:06:05 PM
Yeah, that'd be the same issue. Looks like just forgot to consider trait/s-mod compatibility when I replaced a big chunk of the code responsible for checking trait relevance.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: cfriend on May 27, 2023, 11:07:28 AM
Thank you very much for making this mod, it has made the game much more immersive for me, and leads to a lot of fun RP moments.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 27, 2023, 09:19:43 PM
Happy to hear that! Welcome to the forum  ;D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on May 30, 2023, 10:23:33 PM
A minor bug: If you have a ship with reduced maximum CR due to d-mods, and you have the trait that reduces the effect of d-mods, that trait does not affect the ship's actual maximum CR. (It does affect what the d-mod tooltips claim they're reducing your CR by, but the actual expanded CR tooltip still shows the unmodified full effect.)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on May 31, 2023, 09:44:56 AM
Good catch! After about an hour of digging I think I finally understand why this happens. Unfortunately, the API method starship legends relies on to retrieve the identity of ships while it applies trait effects doesn't work in some cases, and one of the cases seems to be while computing max CR. I'll put in an API request, but if that doesn't work I'm not sure how I'll handle this...
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: starman13 on June 07, 2023, 07:00:39 AM
Do the rumors about patrol fleet flagships not get entered into the fleet log intel like derelict rumors do? I seem to recall the rumors were on the intel screen in the past.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 07, 2023, 09:37:43 AM
They do get entered into the fleet log intel, but sometimes the intel items don't last long. Most of the fleets those rumors refer to are just normal fleets spawned by the base game, and sometimes they're destroyed shortly after being chosen for such rumors. Once the fleet is destroyed the intel is removed (there may or may not be a delay afterward, not sure). I try to choose fleets that will last more than a month, but it doesn't always work out.

Also, thanks for reviving Starpocalypse!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: starman13 on June 07, 2023, 08:14:24 PM
Thanks.

What you describe is the way I remember it working, but I'm not seeing the intel items at all. When I checked the intel screen just after exiting the bar and before leaving the planet I still don't see the rumors under the fleet log (unless it's a rumor about a derelict). I'll try testing without any other mods installed to see if I can reproduce the issue.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: hidefreek on June 08, 2023, 01:34:08 AM
I have a question.
Is Inspired the highest ranked or it's ranked higher than this?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on June 08, 2023, 08:22:12 AM
What you describe is the way I remember it working, but I'm not seeing the intel items at all. When I checked the intel screen just after exiting the bar and before leaving the planet I still don't see the rumors under the fleet log (unless it's a rumor about a derelict). I'll try testing without any other mods installed to see if I can reproduce the issue.
That's no good! I'll check it out. I don't think that would be something caused by interference from another mod, but you never know.

Is Inspired the highest ranked or it's ranked higher than this?
Inspired is the highest loyalty level.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Talkie Toaster on July 07, 2023, 02:43:23 AM
Is the mod designed with any easy ways to hook into the XP system?

I'd like to make a mod that encourages you to try a variety of hulls, by tracking XP earned on a per-hull basis and when it hits a certain value (probably ~= enough to make a ship Legendary) the hull is Mastered and grants to you a SP. So then you're encouraged to rotate the hull out of your fleet and try a new one, to get more SP.

Basically just a way to stop me defaulting to Tempests & Medusas forever. Sound practical, or is there no real way to do it?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 07, 2023, 08:16:32 AM
That's a cool idea! But unfortunately, no, this mod only counts XP for individual ships. There's no way to configure it to share xp among all ships of the same hull type. I can't think of any other mods that might encourage trying a variety of hull types either, but there might be something I don't know about. You might try making a suggestion post. Someone might be able to point you to some way of doing something similar, or someone might try to make a new mod for your idea.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Talkie Toaster on July 07, 2023, 03:59:22 PM
That's a cool idea! But unfortunately, no, this mod only counts XP for individual ships. There's no way to configure it to share xp among all ships of the same hull type. I can't think of any other mods that might encourage trying a variety of hull types either, but there might be something I don't know about. You might try making a suggestion post. Someone might be able to point you to some way of doing something similar, or someone might try to make a new mod for your idea.
Ah, I wasn't expecting it to be a thing already built into this mod! My question was more, is there an easy way for other mods to hook into your XP tracking system? E.g. hooking into the post-battle XP summary screen? Then per-hull XP tracking could be handled by the other mod, without having to duplicate all the work of calculating what XP should be awarded. Progressive S-Mods and Starship Legends both have their own independent ship-based XP systems, and adding a third separate ship XP system would seem a bit much.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 07, 2023, 05:59:01 PM
Ah, gotcha. Starship legends doesn't offer any integration features to hook into the XP system that way either, and I can't think of any unofficial way to do so, at least not off the top of my head. Your best bet is probably to fork the github repo (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends), rebuild the project with edited source code, and publish it as a different mod.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Talkie Toaster on July 08, 2023, 07:28:11 AM
Cheers, I'll just do that then!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: TimeDiver on July 08, 2023, 11:35:48 PM
Not quite, no. It wasn't this way in older versions of Starsector (I think before 0.95.1a?), but you can spend a story point to "fully integrate" an AI core into an automated ship. This gives the core an extra skill, but makes it so it can never be removed. To smooth out some problems with how integration status (the AI version of loyalty) works, I made it so that only "fully integrated" AI cores can gain or lose loyalty. So that change doesn't matter for cores that aren't fully integrated.
How does this work for AI characters that can change their 'host vessel', such as Secrets of the Frontier's Sierra, or with the 'Digital Soul' hidden skill from Tahlan Shipworks enabled, a player character who can directly command REDACTED ships?

I looked through both the .ini file and the LunaLib settings menu, and no obvious options/settings to change/disable the above stood out. If not present, how difficult and/or time-consuming would it be to make an exception for those two scenarios?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 09, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
Cheers, I'll just do that then!
*thumbsup* Best of luck! And sorry in advance for the poorly documented and/or sloppy code!

How does this work for AI characters that can change their 'host vessel', such as Secrets of the Frontier's Sierra, or with the 'Digital Soul' hidden skill from Tahlan Shipworks enabled, a player character who can directly command REDACTED ships?

I looked through both the .ini file and the LunaLib settings menu, and no obvious options/settings to change/disable the above stood out. If not present, how difficult and/or time-consuming would it be to make an exception for those two scenarios?
Not sure how it handles either of those cases. I did some testing with Sierra several months ago, but at the time she was partially implemented and it wasn't clear how the loyalty system should interact with her. This is the first I've heard of Digital Soul, but if it applies to the player-character I'd be surprised if the normal behavior is altered in any way. I'll put those both on my list of issues to look into. It sounds like the loyalty system should treat the AI as a normal officer in both cases, right?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: TimeDiver on July 09, 2023, 07:55:03 PM
Not sure how it handles either of those cases. I did some testing with Sierra several months ago, but at the time she was partially implemented and it wasn't clear how the loyalty system should interact with her. This is the first I've heard of Digital Soul, but if it applies to the player-character I'd be surprised if the normal behavior is altered in any way. I'll put those both on my list of issues to look into. It sounds like the loyalty system should treat the AI as a normal officer in both cases, right?
Should, but instead treats both Sierra (or a player character with Digital Soul) as: "The AI core does not affect the performance of the <insert ship name> because it is not fully integrated."

With no option to 'integrate' (permanently?) either Sierra or my avatar, if they have Digital Soul... which I can re-spec out of by using a story point (or save editing); not an option for Sierra.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 09, 2023, 11:03:51 PM
Yeah, I'll need to fix that then. Thanks for testing it out! In both cases I don't see any need for them to have the same restriction as normal AI cores, so I don't think new options are necessary. I'll just remove the integration requirement for both.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 19, 2023, 08:32:38 AM
Starship Legends 2.3.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed a rare error that could occur with trait side-grade bar events
- Fixed s-mods not being considered for trait compatibility
- Fixed loyalty not applying to player characters with a secret AI related skill from Tahlan Shipworks due to being considered a non-integrated AI core
- Fixed loyalty not applying to a secret AI NPC from Secrets of the Frontier due to being considered a non-integrated AI core
- Fixed loyalty adjustment being mentioned during a bar event even when the loyalty system is disabled
- Fixed the possibility of ships from a secret, hypocritical, hegemony task force getting traits that affect crew-loss
- Fixed civilian ships getting ludicrous xp for dealing damage in combat
- Fixed famous derelict/flagship bar events sometimes listing the AI names for traits instead of crewed names, and vice versa
- Fixed incorrect text sometimes being displayed after accepting "join your officers" bar events
- Fixed being able to swindle the patrons at bars who want to buy a famous ship from you by storing or selling the ship before agreeing to the deal
- Fixed intel for some famous flagship events disappearing instantly
- Fixed the s-mods of famous flagships not being retained after recovery
- Added a note to battle reports to clarify how inflicted damage is calculated
- Changed trait side-grade selection to favor ships with captains, even for civilian ships. Larger ships are also somewhat more likely to be chosen
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kobura on July 22, 2023, 06:04:22 AM
funny story I just now had a java.lang.NullPointerException failure to reload my save and your update to 2.3.1 was the solution!

Thank you for the mod and thank you for your diligence fixing it <3 that was devastating for a short while.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 22, 2023, 07:06:17 AM
Well, thanks! But I don't think I changed anything in the last patch that would fix any sort of load failure. I may be wrong about that, but it's possible the error you ran into was unrelated (and might happen again). I'd be happy to help investigate, if you like.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: CleverLikeMe on July 22, 2023, 09:55:30 AM
I tried to find the answer to this - I'm a relative newbie so apologies in advance.

Is there a way to see the ships in my fleet and things like the effects and loyalty - easily? I tried looking around after I noticed a post battle readout in intel showed me something like that, but I couldn't find it again.

May not even be related to this mod.

I just want to see which ships are at which loyalty and what's going on. having some issues with a couple of ships losing CR very quickly that is likely related.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: atreg on July 22, 2023, 11:30:22 AM
I tried to find the answer to this - I'm a relative newbie so apologies in advance.

Is there a way to see the ships in my fleet and things like the effects and loyalty - easily? I tried looking around after I noticed a post battle readout in intel showed me something like that, but I couldn't find it again.

May not even be related to this mod.

I just want to see which ships are at which loyalty and what's going on. having some issues with a couple of ships losing CR very quickly that is likely related.

Every ship should have a unique built-in hullmod that shows their loyalty levels and other special effects that come with it.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: CleverLikeMe on July 22, 2023, 03:41:37 PM
Yeah, I've got that hull mod. I was hoping there would be a sort of single screen panel to show it all for all current ships in the fleet. All good, just didn't want to be missing it if it was there. More than once I've missed a feature I wanted (or just needed to know about). Was worth an ask.

Thanks1
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 22, 2023, 07:44:20 PM
Hey CleverLikeMe, welcome to the forum! As atreg pointed out, the way to get detailed information about a ship's reputation and the loyalty of it's crew is through the hullmod tooltip. There isn't a screen designed to show a summary of that information, but each battle report will list the loyalty and reputation level of each of your ships at the time of the battle. Battle reports can be found under the "reports" and "new" tags. Hope that helps!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kobura on July 27, 2023, 01:30:57 PM
Well, thanks! But I don't think I changed anything in the last patch that would fix any sort of load failure. I may be wrong about that, but it's possible the error you ran into was unrelated (and might happen again). I'd be happy to help investigate, if you like.

Turns out you're right. Still happening. I don't know why I thought it was better.

failed calling method cause-exception : java.lang.NullPointerException
cause-message : null

I've seen people talk about logs but I've never been able to decipher a damn thing from that gobblygook, so badly so I'm not even sure I'm looking at the right file
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 27, 2023, 06:11:12 PM
This page on the Starsector wiki gives an explanation of how to access the important part of the log: https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Starsector.log
We don't really know anything without that info

I check this forum every 1 or 2 days, so you might want to PM me on Discord @ sundog3161
You can also post in the subforum for modded bug reports and support: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?board=14.0
Or the Discord tech-support channel: https://discord.com/channels/187635036525166592/619635013201428481
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kobura on July 28, 2023, 11:31:59 AM
Discord didn't immediately work. Swapsies? I'm kobura.gif
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on July 31, 2023, 11:08:19 AM
Starship Legends 2.3.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed a crash that occurred when considering military options with Nex enabled and an Olympus (from Interstellar Imperium) in the player fleet
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Lycaeon on August 02, 2023, 10:31:46 AM
Hello! Really appreciate and enjoy the mod, but I would like to ask...

Has it been integrated with Realistic Combat's damage system yet? When searching the thread I found some mention that integration was being planned many months ago, but haven't seen any updates on it since then.

And if it's not integrated, how would you recommend we adjust the XP parameters in lunalib to compensate? I was thinking about reducing XP gained from damage to 0 (As this mod doesn't recognize Realistic Combat's damage model) then adjusting combat ship xp gain parameters to match those of civilian ships.

Thank you for your time!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 02, 2023, 04:47:51 PM
Hey, glad you're enjoying the mod! Liral reached out to me to talk about that incompatibility issue and it turns out they fixed it a while ago. Everything seems to be working properly after a quick test, but please let us know if you see any obviously incorrect damage numbers!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Lycaeon on August 02, 2023, 04:55:06 PM
Hey, glad you're enjoying the mod! Liral reached out to me to talk about that incompatibility issue and it turns out they fixed it a while ago. Everything seems to be working properly after a quick test, but please let us know if you see any obviously incorrect damage numbers!

That's great to hear! I'll keep an eye on my combat ships and let you know if there are any issues.

Appreciate the quick response and thanks again for making the mod!  ;D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Lycaeon on August 06, 2023, 11:07:26 PM
Hey, glad you're enjoying the mod! Liral reached out to me to talk about that incompatibility issue and it turns out they fixed it a while ago. Everything seems to be working properly after a quick test, but please let us know if you see any obviously incorrect damage numbers!

Just sent my mostly inexperienced fleet (Most ships were notable at best) through two major battles and most came out with reputation upgrades, so it's working great so far! The two ships I had with officers didn't gain any loyalty however (Were indifferent before and after the battles), though I'm not sure if this is because loyalty improves much slower than reputation or some other factor is involved. I'm not too worried however, and will keep an eye on things as my game progresses.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on August 07, 2023, 07:00:41 AM
Loyalty does improve more slowly than reputation, at least until a ship becomes famous. Unknown->notable and notable-well-known are very easy to get once you start fighting large battles. Your officers should be earning "confident" loyalty after a few more large battles like that though, so if not please let me know! Oh! Also there's a setting for showing loyalty and rep progress in the reputation hullmod tooltip. That'd be the first thing to check if you suspect something isn't progressing appropriately.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Tecrys on September 15, 2023, 01:39:06 PM
I have a faction of space monsters, so neither crew nor AI persona is applicable for the hullmod fluff text. Can I change that somewehere?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: OmegaInfinita on September 15, 2023, 03:46:00 PM
Hey, glad you're enjoying the mod! Liral reached out to me to talk about that incompatibility issue and it turns out they fixed it a while ago. Everything seems to be working properly after a quick test, but please let us know if you see any obviously incorrect damage numbers!

Just sent my mostly inexperienced fleet (Most ships were notable at best) through two major battles and most came out with reputation upgrades, so it's working great so far! The two ships I had with officers didn't gain any loyalty however (Were indifferent before and after the battles), though I'm not sure if this is because loyalty improves much slower than reputation or some other factor is involved. I'm not too worried however, and will keep an eye on things as my game progresses.

Don't forget, if the ship your officers are commanding is disabled or destroyed you lose loyalty! Even if you go through a big battle, you can still net an overall negative if the ship doesn't do enough to counter it being knocked out! (At least, I'm pretty sure that's how it works, right?)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.3.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 15, 2023, 05:51:41 PM
I have a faction of space monsters, so neither crew nor AI persona is applicable for the hullmod fluff text. Can I change that somewehere?
Hey Tecrys! Glad to see the return of your creepy-crawly void critters! I'm sorry to say there isn't any reasonable way to change most of the fluff text to be appropriate for space-monstrosities. But! Can SVC "ships" be owned by players? If it's an NPC-only faction then I think we can make things work quite well by creating unique SCV traits and only allowing those in the faction reputation file. (See "Answers for mod authors" -> "How can I create new traits" in the OP). Feel free to PM me here or on Discord (Sundog3161) if you'd prefer to collaborate that way.

Don't forget, if the ship your officers are commanding is disabled or destroyed you lose loyalty! Even if you go through a big battle, you can still net an overall negative if the ship doesn't do enough to counter it being knocked out! (At least, I'm pretty sure that's how it works, right?)
Right! Although ships can't do anything to counter being disabled. All loyalty xp they've accrued up to that point is reset.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on September 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM
Starship Legends 2.4.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
-Fixed a spacial formatting issue on battle reports
-Improved support for mods with biological ships:
   -Alternative reputation flavor text and trait names that are appropriate for bio-ships
   -Added bio-ship-specific prose for some bar events
   -To designate a ship as biological, use starship_legends.Integration.registerBiologicalShip("myShipID")
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: LngA7Gw on October 03, 2023, 01:57:36 AM
Note that this seems to cause some weirdness with station defense
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=28097.msg413490#msg413490
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 03, 2023, 10:34:12 AM
Thanks for figuring out what's going wrong and letting me know! I'll try to release a fix for that soon.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Mitroll on October 04, 2023, 11:37:53 AM
Recoil bonuses don't seem to be working.

Steps to recreate:

Install "armored weapon mounts" (vanilla) on a ship, use TMI to observe that weapons' max spread goes down
Install "stiff weapon mounts" (MHM), observe the same
acquire the "stable hardpoints" trait on a ship, no change in max spread

Unless TMI just can't see the bonus from starship legends for some reason? TMI seems to be able to see other things like venting mult boosts from Starship Legends.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2023, 12:04:01 PM
Starship Legends 2.4.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed attacking stations instead of helping them when engaging via "Aid the battlestation and its defenders"
- Fixed biological ships with d-mods having traits with non-biological names
- Added special trait names for crew-related traits that are appropriate for bio-ships ships with no crew
- Changed: Stable/Unstable Hardpoints now affect max weapon spread in addition to spread-per-shot

Recoil bonuses don't seem to be working.
Stable/unstable hardpoint traits only affected spread-per-shot, not max spread. I think it makes sense for both stats to be modified, however, so now they do. Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: soxsure on October 04, 2023, 05:15:35 PM
I installed the update and now I can't select "military options" at a colony held by enemys. Throws me back to the campaign map and says in angry red text to contact you. So here I am xD

 
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2023, 05:28:46 PM
Thanks for letting me know! Looks like I have a hotfix to make...
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2023, 06:03:58 PM
I installed the update and now I can't select "military options" at a colony held by enemys. Throws me back to the campaign map and says in angry red text to contact you. So here I am xD
I wasn't expecting to have any trouble reproducing this issue, but here I am... Would you mind providing a few extra details to help me out?
Thanks for any additional info you can provide!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: soxsure on October 04, 2023, 06:36:21 PM
1. Yea
2. No
3. No
4. Not right now sorry, next time I see my pc is in 2days );

Add. Info.. there was a defense fleet on it's way to defend this colony. But not yet in system. Sent with nex fleet request based off my own colony. Besides that nothing special I could think of.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 04, 2023, 08:28:47 PM
Starship Legends 2.4.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed error introduced in 2.4.1 that sometimes occurred when selecting "consider your military options"

@soxsure: Thanks again for the timely report. I couldn't determine what was causing the error, but the update above should take care of it. If you're still up for it, I'd still appreciate that stack trace just so I can understand what went wrong.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: IroncladLion on October 11, 2023, 03:59:30 PM
Thanks for the 2.4.2 fix, was getting that bug consistently!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Jimminy Crimbles on October 11, 2023, 04:30:57 PM
small bug with the experimental hull modifications mod. ships modified with EHM have their flavor text changed to the AI variant. this seems to be a wholly cosmetic issue, the ships work fine otherwise.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 12, 2023, 12:04:42 AM
Thanks for the 2.4.2 fix, was getting that bug consistently!
No problem. Sorry for the trouble in the first place!

small bug with the experimental hull modifications mod. ships modified with EHM have their flavor text changed to the AI variant. this seems to be a wholly cosmetic issue, the ships work fine otherwise.
I just tried with a bunch of different hullmods from EHM and the only one that changed the flavor text to the AI variant was "AI Switch" so I'm guessing there's something else at play. Starship legends decides to use AI verbiage if a ship has a minimum crew requirement of zero. Is that the case for your ships?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Jimminy Crimbles on October 12, 2023, 08:09:53 AM
small bug with the experimental hull modifications mod. ships modified with EHM have their flavor text changed to the AI variant. this seems to be a wholly cosmetic issue, the ships work fine otherwise.
I just tried with a bunch of different hullmods from EHM and the only one that changed the flavor text to the AI variant was "AI Switch" so I'm guessing there's something else at play. Starship legends decides to use AI verbiage if a ship has a minimum crew requirement of zero. Is that the case for your ships?

huh. yes, but also no? turns out some of my ships did have 0 min crew, but i'm sure there was something else happening there. it was before i added AI subsystems integration* and i was playing around with modding my ships, and i distinctly remember spending a good 30 seconds looking back and forth, wondering why adding and removing the EHM hullmod made the ship's reputation text flip flop between the crewed and AI variants. i can't seem to reproduce it now, though.

*from emergent threats, not EHM's AI switch**. it just sets min crew to 0, doesn't turn it automated
**didn't remember the switch existed until way later, so it definitely wasn't that.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 12, 2023, 05:05:57 PM
Ok, gotcha. If you do find a way to consistently make the mod use the wrong type of flavor text I hope you'll let me know!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: jorisR31 on October 14, 2023, 08:49:24 AM
hello everyone.

first thanks for your mod.

as requested I send you an errur meeting in the game :

858985 [Thread-3] ERROR starship_legends.ModPlugin  - null
    starship_legends.campaign.rulecmd.SL_ShowMarketDefenses.execute(SL_ShowMarketDefenses.java:48)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.oOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.execute(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.campaign.rules.C.runScript(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.applyRule(FireBest.java:106)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.execute(FireBest.java:51)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.FireBest.fire(FireBest.java:57)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.fireBes t(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:177)
    com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.optionS elected(RuleBasedInteractionDialogPluginImpl.java:210)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.classsuper$1.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.OoOO.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.n.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.Ò00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.I.processInput(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.ui.W.super(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)

Meeting when i try to launch hostile action on some planet without starbase apparently
don't make crash the game
can be cause by plenty things because I play with more than 80 mods X)
if you need more info, please tell me I can recreate the trouble when needed

thanks for your work  :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: jorisR31 on October 14, 2023, 08:52:34 AM
anbd i just come to see you have improve your mods in another version which correct this XD


sorry for my previous message and have a good day :)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: TrashMan on October 14, 2023, 10:31:55 AM
I find it very hard to build up loyalty for some ships that are fragile by design and the AI isn't best using. So they end up dying a lot. Even tough they do 600%+ damage, captains still keep loosing loyalty.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: OmegaInfinita on October 14, 2023, 07:34:38 PM
I find it very hard to build up loyalty for some ships that are fragile by design and the AI isn't best using. So they end up dying a lot. Even tough they do 600%+ damage, captains still keep loosing loyalty.

I mean, you can't have a loyal crew if the crew is replaced every battle, yeah? Wouldn't matter how much damage you do if you die lol
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 14, 2023, 10:37:27 PM
anbd i just come to see you have improve your mods in another version which correct this XD

sorry for my previous message and have a good day :)
No worries! Thanks for reporting regardless  :)

I find it very hard to build up loyalty for some ships that are fragile by design and the AI isn't best using. So they end up dying a lot. Even tough they do 600%+ damage, captains still keep loosing loyalty.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll keep an eye on this next time I do some playtesting. In my experience ships that do a lot of damage typically also survive reliably. Would you mind providing an example of the type of ship you're having the issue with so I can try it out at some point?
In the meantime, you might consider tweaking some of the loyalty settings or even editing "Starship Legends/sun_sl/data/loyalty_levels.csv" a bit.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 18, 2023, 05:34:45 PM
Starship Legends 2.4.3 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed an error caused by accepting a trait-swap offer when the original trait had already been removed
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Effrenatus on October 19, 2023, 03:26:26 AM
I have used this mod a year ago and i remember that i got the ship traits relatively fast, perhaps saw the Mod that contains them from the beginning, could that be?
Now i don't see any popping up, do they come with time? I'll upgrade from 2.4.2 to 2.4.3 now and see....

EDIT: Oh i realize i am not sure if i started a new game after adding this mod, is that needed?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 19, 2023, 08:12:04 AM
New game shouldn't be necessary. New traits are granted based on XP gain, so it might take a bit if you're not fighting any battles, or only fighting very small ones. Typically ships will get their first pair of traits from their first medium-sized battle. If you've been fighting battles against fairly big fleets without ships earning their first traits then it might be worth double-checking to make sure starship legends is activated in your mod list. Not sure what you mean about the Mod that contains traits from the beginning.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Effrenatus on October 19, 2023, 11:43:25 AM
Thank you. Yes I my battles were small and not many, or in participated in NPC battles a bit. I only have some frigates for now. ^^ I guess that will take a bit more then...
By "Mod with traits" i ment the hull mod that would contain the ship traits. I guess on my old PC i was deeper in the game and had bigger battles.
I will see, thanks for answering!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 19, 2023, 04:44:23 PM
Ok, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying! The hullmod that contains the ship's traits won't show up until they earn their first trait. Things seem to be working correctly on my end, but if you still aren't getting any traits once you start having bigger battles I hope you'll let me know.
Also, welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Effrenatus on October 20, 2023, 11:11:31 AM
Thank you very much. :) I will let you know in that case!
EDIT: Works, no problems, i was just too impatient! :D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Lycaeon on October 21, 2023, 10:50:04 AM
I've encountered a problem with the latest version. If you click on the 'Join your officers for a drink' bar quest before your ships have accumulated any traits it kicks you out of the planet and a red message appears saying there is an error and to let you know. I had only a single weaponless kite (Nexerelin Spacer Start) but the error will probably apply even with multiple traitless ships.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 21, 2023, 07:26:31 PM
Thanks for letting me know! I'll fix that up soon...
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.3 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Lycaeon on October 22, 2023, 11:51:26 AM
Thanks for letting me know! I'll fix that up soon...

Sweet! My suggestion would be to have the mission not show up in bars until your ships have at least a few traits for it to apply to, as it doesn't really serve a purpose until then.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 23, 2023, 09:45:36 AM
Starship Legends 2.4.4 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed an error that could occur when starting the "Join your officers for a drink" bar event while no ships in the player fleet have reputation

My suggestion would be to have the mission not show up in bars until your ships have at least a few traits for it to apply to, as it doesn't really serve a purpose until then.
True! This version should do that for the most part, but I still can't quite guarantee it due to how the bar event system works and how freely ships and their reputations can be added and removed. If the event is shown anyway for some reason, it will just invalidate the event and say "You talk with your officers for a while, but nothing significant comes of it."
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: F2PVegan on October 25, 2023, 08:40:40 PM
Not sure if this is something that's been brought up before, and there's a good chance I'm just missing something totally obvious, but the crew side grade suggestions doesn't work for me. I started a play through, and the moment I got my first traits on my first ship I had an immediate crew suggestions, but then haven't had a single one past that the entire time I've been playing.
I don't even know how you would begin to figure out why that's the case though, just thought I would share my experience in case it helps
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 26, 2023, 08:58:11 PM
Thanks for letting me know! It's working as expected for me, but there might be some other factor that's messing it up in your game. Sidegrade suggestion frequency is based on the "days between sidegrade suggestions" setting, but they're less frequent if there aren't many traits in your fleet (between all ships). Did you ever adjust that setting by any chance? Setting it to zero will disable sidegrade suggestions completely. How much time has passed (in game) since you got that first suggestion?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on October 28, 2023, 04:15:37 PM
Something's messed up (for me) with the "Join your officers for a drink" event - since I upgraded to v2.4.4, that event has only had the "nothing significant comes of it" outcome, despite my fleet including plenty of well-storied ships.

Edit: I've now gotten such an event that is working... for a ship that I acquired after updating to v2.4.4. Not sure what that means for where the issue is.

I am still getting the regular intel-based sidegrades, though.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2023, 07:33:45 AM
Well that is unfortunate and strange... I don't think v2.4.4 included any changes that could result in something like that, but I've certainly been wrong before. What version were you using before updating?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on October 29, 2023, 11:45:04 AM
Looks like I was on 2.4.3 before.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that what happened is that the extra safety mechanism added by 2.4.4 was set to turn off when a ship in your fleet went from "no traits" to "has traits", and that it was therefore treating my fleet as if it had no traits until I acquired a new ship and that new ship acquired traits.

(This, in turn, raises questions about how well it'd work with, say, situations where the player suffered a fleet-wipe, or perhaps just decided to put their entire old fleet in storage and then start with entirely new ships...)

On the other hand, the above is very much a guess based on observed behavior; what I can tell you with confidence is that after updating from 2.4.3 to 2.4.4, I got maybe five or six in a row of "nothing significant comes of it" and that the bar event seems to have returned to functionality after acquiring traits on at least one new ship. (I do not, yet, have an example of a ship that had traits under 2.4.3 being offered trait changes in the bar, but that could easily just be RNG; I've had... maybe two of these bar events since I added some ships to my fleet? Maybe? Might have been just the one, I don't recall for sure.)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on October 29, 2023, 04:16:15 PM
Just got a "Join your officers for a drink" option that picked a ship that had been acquired (and has traits) since I updated to 2.4.4... and "nothing significant comes of it".

...Weird. What's different now versus last night when I got the bar event picking the same ship and actually working? Well, hm. I shut down the game and the re-started and re-loaded my save? That's pretty much the only thing that's changed...

Edit: Well, that hypothesis is sunk too. Next bar event I got worked. No idea what's going on, then. (Though, if it's at all relevant, the 'working' event was a swap negative trait to positive trait, rather than swap trait A for trait B.)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 29, 2023, 10:26:52 PM
Thanks for the detailed info with troubleshooting! I should've mentioned this earlier, but each time a starship legends bar event occurs and "nothing comes of it" an message is printed to the log with details about what went wrong. Would you mind sending that my way next time it happens?

Actually, that info only gets logged for invalid famous derelict/flagship events, so never mind... I'll take a closer look at this tomorrow.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.4 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 30, 2023, 10:01:41 AM
@Wyvern: Ok, so it was caused by a mistake I made with the fix for 2.4.3, which invalidated "Join your crew for a drink" events if the ship chosen for the event no longer had the original trait chosen for the event. Obviously, that should not apply to variations of the bar event that don't involve traits, such as a chronicler joining or sacrificing loyalty to fix a d-mod. Unfortunately I'm a bit of a dunce, so I didn't consider that, and all such variations ended up being invalidated...
Anyway, thanks again for all the help with identifying this! I'm going to try to get a patch out today after investigating the potential issue F2PVegan mentioned.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on October 30, 2023, 10:20:34 AM
Starship Legends 2.4.5 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed some "Join your officers for a drink" bar event variations not working (since v2.4.3)
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Coward on November 20, 2023, 11:25:35 AM
I've been running into a slight bug; it seems that if you have the Skilled Engineers legendary trait with a 3x effect multiplier and an inspired crew, the ship behaves as if at 0% CR and will malfunction in combat without ever repairing disabled/malfunctioned systems. This seems to be due to the increase from inspired, legendary Skilled Engineers pushing the repair rate above 100%, though I haven't put too much effort into replicating it on other ships yet.

It's simple enough to remove the trait and re-add it as notable, which prevents it from going over 100%, so I've fixed it for my playthrough, but I figured it would be important to mention.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 20, 2023, 05:50:39 PM
Thanks for pointing that out! It looks like the underlying issue might affect a few other traits when they exceed +100% as well, so I recommend reducing trait effect scaling to x2 until I release a patch.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 21, 2023, 07:58:36 AM
Starship Legends 2.4.6 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)
- Fixed traits that grant more than 100% repair rate instead preventing repairs (not possible with default settings)
- Fixed some traits not scaling appropriately when approaching +100% bonus
- Renamed traits: Skilled/Incompetent Engineers to Skilled/Inept Mechanics
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Coward on November 21, 2023, 08:16:39 AM
woo, now I can use my 3x trait multiplier again; thanks!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 21, 2023, 09:19:53 AM
No problem  ;D
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Vaelophisnyx on November 26, 2023, 06:03:11 PM
So I've been using diagnostic mode to pin down anything that could be causing slowdown and I've noticed that it seems this mod runs an absolute avalanche of recurring checks on the navigation map, which should only be needed whenever XP is dolled out to the player

am I right that it is this mod doing this?
for context I'm getting:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1095941869847986196/1178515656228999288/image.png)
every single frame
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Shogouki on November 26, 2023, 07:28:30 PM
So I've been using diagnostic mode to pin down anything that could be causing slowdown and I've noticed that it seems this mod runs an absolute avalanche of recurring checks on the navigation map, which should only be needed whenever XP is dolled out to the player

am I right that it is this mod doing this?
for context I'm getting:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1095941869847986196/1178515656228999288/image.png)
every single frame

Huh, that's interesting. 
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 27, 2023, 08:38:52 AM
So I've been using diagnostic mode to pin down anything that could be causing slowdown and I've noticed that it seems this mod runs an absolute avalanche of recurring checks on the navigation map, which should only be needed whenever XP is dolled out to the player

am I right that it is this mod doing this?
I'm not aware of an issue with recurring checks, but I'll look into it. As a quick test I stepped through the code this mod runs for each campaign frame, and it's just checking to see if it needs to do anything else, as it should. It's possible there's a problem somewhere else, though, and this was with a fresh game, so the problem might be caused by the mod not handling a certain state correctly. What kind of checks are causing the problem? Why do you suspect starship legends? Are you only getting this behavior while it's active? Does it persist if you disable the mod with the "remove all data and features" option?

I'm not familiar with diagnostic mode and google isn't coming up with much. I don't understand what your screenshot is saying. Can you link me to instructions/information about it?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Vaelophisnyx on November 27, 2023, 12:46:02 PM
So I've been using diagnostic mode to pin down anything that could be causing slowdown and I've noticed that it seems this mod runs an absolute avalanche of recurring checks on the navigation map, which should only be needed whenever XP is dolled out to the player

am I right that it is this mod doing this?
I'm not aware of an issue with recurring checks, but I'll look into it. As a quick test I stepped through the code this mod runs for each campaign frame, and it's just checking to see if it needs to do anything else, as it should. It's possible there's a problem somewhere else, though, and this was with a fresh game, so the problem might be caused by the mod not handling a certain state correctly. What kind of checks are causing the problem? Why do you suspect starship legends? Are you only getting this behavior while it's active? Does it persist if you disable the mod with the "remove all data and features" option?

I'm not familiar with diagnostic mode and google isn't coming up with much. I don't understand what your screenshot is saying. Can you link me to instructions/information about it?

Diagnostic mode comes from the Shenandoah java pack iirc, over in the Modding subforum. Super helpful!

As far as why I think it's this mod, I don't think I have anything else that runs any checks on specific ships in your fleet on the nav map? And all the ones mentioned at the time had a fame effect or two, while the rest of my fleet had none.
I did try out Clear Commands (glad that still works) and just ran the smart-clear command, erasing ~120 fleets from the game, which seems to have cleared the lag up quite a bit, but not fully.
The save I'm on has a few hours into it but about 90% of that has been spent in outfitting and paused*
And finally! I cannot seem to get the mod to respect the disable setting, it's true but I still have the features of the mod active for some reason.

Edit: To add to why I think it's this rather than more common causes of nav-map lag:
1. no combats have occurred after loading, lag is instant
2. allocating 12Gb of RAM (I have 32 total*) leaves the game resting at 8.5Gb comfortably
3. VRAM is sittin at 3.6Gb free
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 27, 2023, 03:29:57 PM
Thanks for the extra info! I'll dig around and see what I can find out.

Diagnostic mode comes from the Shenandoah java pack iirc, over in the Modding subforum. Super helpful!
Thanks! I'll check it out and see if I can match up some of its output with code from starship legends.

And finally! I cannot seem to get the mod to respect the disable setting, it's true but I still have the features of the mod active for some reason.
The setting still seems to be working correctly for me. Did you change the setting by editing STARSHIP_LEGENDS_OPTIONS.ini by any chance? If you're using LunaLib then its settings system will take precedence over the settings in that file. If you used LunaLib, it might be worth checking to make sure you clicked the "save all" button.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 27, 2023, 04:16:33 PM
Ok, so I started a new game using Shenandoah diagnostic mode and a minimal modlist (this, shenandoah, console commands, LunaLib, LazyLib). I destroyed a few fleets to get the first few traits, then used console commands to add a bunch more to all ships. I didn't see anything in the bat console that looked like your screenshot, just the stuff the game normally logs. Does Shenandoah's Diagnostic_run.bat ever output anything not normally in the log? If not, then the output you posted is likely printed to the log by a mod. If that output only appears for ships with traits, then it's likely that this mod somehow causes whatever mod that's printing that stuff to constantly update something.

Hope that made sense... If not please let me know what I'm missing or what I can clarify.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Vaelophisnyx on November 27, 2023, 04:26:18 PM
so far as I can tell, the diagnostic console output is more verbose and unfiltered than the log? Most of the stuff I was seeing in it appeared nowhere in the log file.
My only other major suspect is probably Nex itself, as it's the only other mod that I can think of that could impact performance like this potentially? Lunalib also doesn't seem to feature a disable option for this mod? Unless it's buried somewhere obscure in the menus for it
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on November 27, 2023, 05:09:54 PM
Lunalib also doesn't seem to feature a disable option for this mod? Unless it's buried somewhere obscure in the menus for it
It's at the bottom of the "Other" tab. It has yellow warning text.
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Debowy_Mocny on December 10, 2023, 08:16:09 AM
I have a question.
WHere i can change traits of my ship?
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on December 11, 2023, 09:51:11 AM
Certain bar events will allow you to make decisions about the traits your ship have, and occasionally you'll get a notification that gives you the option to swap one trait for another. You can also use console commands to force ships to have whatever traits you want. You can get the Console Commands mod here: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=4106.0. To get instructions for how to do that enter the commands "help addTrait" and "help removeTraits"
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RASTIL on January 17, 2024, 01:49:37 AM
I like this mod a lot, especially that crews start a riot whne they are "stuck with a dumbo that leads them to explosion all the time".
Unfortunelly I had to remove it as i suspect it somehow messes with my bar missions, after some time i had either NO missions in bars, or only stuff related to the mod like listen to animated storyteller.   :'(
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 17, 2024, 08:55:04 AM
Thanks for the feedback! Sorry to hear about the trouble with bar events. I've never heard of something like that happening before. I have two theories:
Hope that helps! If not, would you mind providing more details? Are you using any settings or other mods that affect bar events? How long does it take to start seeing the issue? Any idea how I could get it to happen myself? Are there any other reasons you suspect it's caused by starship legends? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: RASTIL on January 17, 2024, 06:01:22 PM
I do not think i messed with average bar events, but with my stellar memory I can't answer with 100 % conviction. It "shoudl not" be a bar hopping thing, as I took notice to it when after about about 3-4 expeditions (what i mean is a lot of time passed) I realised I can't get any bar quests that aren't from this mod.

I got rid of "more bar missions" as with it, i had multiple SL events on every planet and that was just too much. I don't think i got anything else that woudl do anything to bar events. I was on level 17, cycle 209 i think. I wrote the post after confirming my suspicion by simply playing the next run turning off only this mod, so far to cycle 211 without that isssue. Sorry for not being any help.

Anyway once I'm done with current run i'll try again with SL and see if it persists. I allready miss it.

Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.6 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on January 17, 2024, 07:52:16 PM
Thanks for the info! Sounds like it might be caused by a conflict with More Bar Mission, removing it mid-run, or a combination of the two. If I get time I'll do some tests to try to get bar events to stop spawning. I'll also try to figure out how to prevent duplicate bar events from this mod when it's used with More Bar Missions, as that counts as a compatibility issue in my book. Hope your next run is issue-free!
Title: Re: [0.96a] Starship Legends 2.4.5 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 02, 2024, 09:28:14 PM
Starship Legends 2.5.0 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Save-compatible with previous versions

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)

- Updated for Starsector 0.97a
- Fixed effects from "Scrap Heap" and "Battle Scarred" traits not being applied in some cases
- Changed: Sidegrade suggestions are no longer created during the tutorial
- Changed: Persian League fleets are now far less likely to have fighter-related traits
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Ali on February 03, 2024, 02:47:55 AM
Much appreciated Sd!  :D
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 03, 2024, 03:31:11 PM
<3  ;D
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on February 12, 2024, 11:02:27 AM
Are there still loyalty reductions in this with AI ships?  Last time I played with it I ran into pretty significant issues with my AI core Ramparts since they're fearless and can only function as cheap, but very strong for their cost, sacrificial lambs.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 12, 2024, 11:53:12 AM
The loyalty system still applies to AI ships/cores, but only if they are "fully integrated." Since 2.2.0:
Quote
AI cores are no longer affected by integration status (loyalty) unless fully integrated
One of the reasons for that change was to address the very problem you had.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on February 12, 2024, 12:06:16 PM
Thanks for your answer!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 12, 2024, 12:26:24 PM
No problem  :)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Kelenius on February 12, 2024, 03:17:18 PM
Spoiler
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187635036525166592/1206739118747291698/image.png?ex=65dd1a62&is=65caa562&hm=46271ffb3c8905c46faae08b2465ac9dd366c4512f1dfb934ec7e7543d721d0e&)
[close]

This seems... a bit excessive of a price tag for a Monitor, even if it has 3 S-mods and is famous. Not even legendary.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 12, 2024, 05:15:41 PM
Thanks for the feedback! The vast majority of the price comes from the 3 s-mods. Each s-mod increases the price by a flat 400K. I think that's a pretty enticing offer during the early/mid game, but not so much during the late game when these events tend to appear most often. In fact, I'm pretty sure I turned down a similar offer in my current game (it was also for a monitor ;D). What do you think would be a good price increase for each s-mod?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: MulletCat on February 13, 2024, 05:45:45 PM
S-mods should probably be a value multiplier? Then again Story Points theoretically have a "fixed" value regardless of what ship you put it on, so perhaps X amount of flat cost increase plus a smaller multiplier? That might be too complex mathwise lol.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on February 13, 2024, 06:23:06 PM
You could put bounds on it.  So any story point spent must give at least 50,000 credits to the value of the ship, but caps out at 300,000 credits?  Then have each point add roughly 50% to the value of the ship if that ship's value is between 100,000 and 600,000?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 14, 2024, 09:26:34 AM
I'm not certain the price of each s-mod should scale with the base price of the ship it's on at all. The way I see it, all (player installed) s-mods have a roughly equal value regardless of the ship they're installed on. People don't install s-mods in ways that they don't think are useful enough to sacrifice a story point. Monitors, for example, are far more useful than their price would indicate. They're worth spending SP on because they are (arguably) the best "distraction" ship in the game. Ultimately, my goal with the pricing of these offers is to make them difficult and interesting decisions. I don't think players would consider giving up a customized ship with three s-mods for 200K, even if it is just a frigate. *Maybe* if it's a suboptimal early-game bootstrap ship, but that's a bit of an edge-case.

My current plan is to simply reduce the flat price contribution from 400K to 250K per s-mod. I'm open to alternatives, but it'll take some convincing!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on February 14, 2024, 09:53:25 AM
I can see some argument for scaling s-mod pricing with ship size, namely that s-mods in frigates return much larger chunks of bonus XP and are thus in some ways 'smaller investments'...

...But that ignores that, if you've got plenty of bonus XP already, the effective cost is still "one story point right now" with the theoretical return on investment being far in the future.

So, /shrug, mostly? Unless it's very early game or I'm specifically short on credits right now due to colony stuff, I'm not going to trade a three-s-mod ship for 1.2 million credits; cutting that down to three quarters of a million doesn't really change the calculation much either way.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: robepriority on February 14, 2024, 10:00:44 AM
I think there's a variant in another mod where the request refunds the SP you put in the ship - maybe like that?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on February 14, 2024, 11:12:08 AM
It's 75% bonus exp per s-mod on a frigate, 50% for a destroyer, 25% for a cruiser, and 0% for a capital.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.0 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 14, 2024, 12:14:05 PM
It's 75% bonus exp per s-mod on a frigate, 50% for a destroyer, 25% for a cruiser, and 0% for a capital.
Ah, you're right! Well, I'm a putz. I thought bonus XP was still granted for building-in s-mods with low OP costs, not smaller ship sizes.
I think that makes the solution pretty obvious: 100K/200K/300K/400K per s-mod, depending on ship size.

I think there's a variant in another mod where the request refunds the SP you put in the ship - maybe like that?
Yeah, I think that's an event from Nex? Generally I'm not a fan of refunding SP, and I think it's more interesting to offer an exchange of one resource for another anyway.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 19, 2024, 09:50:19 AM
Starship Legends 2.5.1 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Save-compatible with previous versions

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)

- Fixed a rare crash on the intel screen caused by a broken famous flagship event
- Changes to the bar event where someone offers to buy one of your famous ships:
   - Each installed s-mod increases the price by 100/200/300/400K credits (depending on the ship size) instead of always 400K
   - Crew contracts are no longer part of the deal when the ship isn't currently part of your fleet
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Twilight Sentinel on February 25, 2024, 02:30:16 PM
Got my first Legendary ship and read through the storyteller in the bar.  That's a wonderful reward, especially in that it actually pulls the highlights from previous fights and how you got the ship.

https://i.imgur.com/5pFJFEa.png

It did pick good highlights, like a fight against a high end bounty where I got a desperate kill on an enemy capital, whose explosion took the Daedalus out at the same time.  As well as the fight against the TT crisis mercs, which was the most difficult fight I've had in this campaign.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on February 25, 2024, 09:41:46 PM
Thanks for the feedback! Glad you liked the event  ;D
Also, I don't think I actually thanked you for pointing out what I was missing with the whacky s-mod cost adjustment for that other bar event. So thanks for that as well!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: sawert42 on March 06, 2024, 12:14:43 AM
I think that the Rugged trait isn't applied correctly, cause i understand that it's a flat bonus per lasting damage, so if my bonus is 9% and i have 5 D-mods i should get +45% hull integrity.
But in my current game i have ship with base hull of 10,000, and it has +30% from Exotic technologies, +24% from Durable trait, +9% From Rugged trait and i have 5 D-mods on that ship, and +10% From insulated Engine Assembly, So if Rugged is flat for every D-mod i should have a total of 109 Bonus Hull integrity which should put me at 20,900 Hull but i have 18,500 instead and no i don't have any D-mods decreasing Hull.
And just fyi, i'm playing on 0.96 version of starsector and my Starship Legends version is 2.3.0, but i didn't saw that being fixed in the changelogs.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.1 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 06, 2024, 12:46:37 PM
Thanks for pointing that out! So it turns out Durable and Rugged don't stack correctly. Only the last one to be applied takes effect because both traits are from the same hullmod and they both modify the same stat. In your case, it's actually the Durable trait that isn't being applied, while Rugged is being applied in full (10,000 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.1 + 0.45) = 18,500). Looks like these are the only trait types that have this problem. I should be able to force them to stack manually. Hoping to get a patch out soon!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 06, 2024, 01:35:20 PM
Starship Legends 2.5.2 (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321)
Save-compatible with previous versions

(https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/total?color=496B8E&label=Download%20Starship%20Legends&style=flat&logo=DocuSign&logoColor=white)
 (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/releases/latest/download/Starship.Legends.zip)

- Fixed the two trait types that affect hull integrity not stacking their effects


@sawert42: Thanks again for the thorough report! Those numbers really helped me pin down the root cause, and I really appreciate you going through the change log to make sure it hadn't already been fixed. There's a good chance you won't have any issues if you use this version with your 0.96 save if you just edit the gameVersion in mod_info.json. No promises though, so keep a backup save if you try it!
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: sawert42 on March 06, 2024, 08:46:28 PM
Glad i could help, also thanks for the fast fix, tried it and so far the game works and my ship has correct amount hull.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on March 12, 2024, 01:16:31 PM
Would you mind clarifying, please, exactly what the "Skilled Engineers" trait does?

I ask because "+X% repair rate" could be referring to the rate at which hull and armor is restored in the campaign, ala the Field Repairs skill, or it could be referring to the rate at which disabled weapons and engines are repaired during combat, ala the Damage Control skill, or even potentially both.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 12, 2024, 06:18:49 PM
It affects both, although I'm pretty sure that wasn't always the case. Generally I try to make traits do everything people are likely to think they do based on their anemic descriptions (that's not always practical, but for the most part...). If you ever want to know the *exact* effect of a trait you can go to this page (https://github.com/NateNBJ/StarshipLegends/blob/master/src/starship_legends/ModPlugin.java) and Ctrl+F the trait type ID. It's all code, but it's usually pretty readable.
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Axisoflint on March 22, 2024, 11:18:07 AM
Just wanted to say that I thought it was a really neat that the storyteller could tell a story about your own ship that gives you a story point. Didn't know that was even a thing and had it randomly pop up and it was just... really neat, so thanks :)
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Sundog on March 22, 2024, 06:01:06 PM
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for taking the time to say so ;D
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: KingApin on March 27, 2024, 08:17:52 PM
How can I check my fleet reputation and loyalty?
Title: Re: [0.97a] Starship Legends 2.5.2 - Extra flavor for ships, crew, and NPCs
Post by: Wyvern on March 28, 2024, 09:42:34 AM
How can I check my fleet reputation and loyalty?
A ship's reputation is implemented as a non-removable hullmod; the hullmod tooltip has the information you're looking for.