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Author Topic: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 554160 times)

Sordid

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1710 on: May 23, 2017, 01:47:42 AM »

There's just even more menus to grind now, and none of the other recently added roadblocks on the way to fun has been removed. Meanwhile elements of the core combat gameplay that have been in dire need of change for years have not been touched at all. The space battlefield is still constrained by an artificial box, the AI is still inhumanly perfect when it comes to things like timing phase cloak or shields but at the same time is perfectly happy to park a friendly frigate right between your ship's guns and an enemy you're shooting at, there's still no way of giving more nuanced fleet-wide orders than "full assault" and "full retreat" (maybe something along the lines of "hey guys, we're outnumbered three to one, maybe stick together instead of suiciding into the enemy fleet one by one"), the HUD colors of enemies and allies are still extremely similar, it's still difficult to tell friendly missiles from enemy ones, and I could go on for some time like this.

The new combat things sure sound nice and all, but I'd happily trade all of those for a fix to even one of the issues mentioned above. I get that's never going to happen; adding new features is a lot more exciting than going back and overhauling old ones that are "good enough". But I'm never going to stop being unhappy about it either.

Edit: Also, are you supposed to be able to recover ships that broke into pieces during the battle?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 02:17:21 AM by Sordid »
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AxleMC131

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1711 on: May 23, 2017, 02:33:32 AM »

... the HUD colors of enemies and allies are still extremely similar...

Okay, I fully understand personal opinions, and I respect people who have them, but what?  ??? Enemies are RED. Allies are YELLOW. Friendlies are GREEN. What part of those colours are "extremely similar"?
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Sordid

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1712 on: May 23, 2017, 03:17:21 AM »

Enemies are RED. Allies are YELLOW. Friendlies are GREEN. What part of those colours are "extremely similar"?

If those were the colors used in the game, there would indeed be no problem whatsoever. But they aren't.
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HELMUT

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1713 on: May 23, 2017, 04:13:44 AM »

Quote
If those were the colors used in the game, there would indeed be no problem whatsoever. But they aren't.

Spoiler
[close]

You might want to take a look at it with another monitor than the one you're currently using, because that's definitely not normal.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1714 on: May 23, 2017, 04:34:22 AM »

^ Thanks for explaining that way better than I did HELMUT.  ;D
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Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1715 on: May 23, 2017, 05:00:44 AM »

settings.json says:

Code
"yellowTextColor":[255,215,0,255], # ALLY
"textFriendColor":[155,255,0,255], # FRIENDLY
"textEnemyColor":[255,100,0,255], # ENEMY
(comments mine)

I find the current colors readily distinguishable at a glance, but ALLY could stand to be closer to FRIENDLY (since confusing the two is far safer than confusing ALLY for ENEMY). Also the blue channel could actually be used.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1716 on: May 23, 2017, 06:24:34 AM »

The space battlefield is still constrained by an artificial box
Your CPU is thankful for not having to render every single ship in both fleets.
Quote
the AI is still inhumanly perfect when it comes to things like timing phase cloak or shields but at the same time is perfectly happy to park a friendly frigate right between your ship's guns and an enemy you're shooting at
There are some things AI can do better and many things it's worse at and making very life-like AI would be too ardours and too hard to spend time trying to achieve it. It's still very good for this kind of game.
Quote
there's still no way of giving more nuanced fleet-wide orders than "full assault" and "full retreat" (maybe something along the lines of "hey guys, we're outnumbered three to one, maybe stick together instead of suiciding into the enemy fleet one by one")
Escort, capture, eliminate, engage, avoid... What exactly would you want? Flanking (which AI does already on its own) or what?
Quote
Edit: Also, are you supposed to be able to recover ships that broke into pieces during the battle?
IIRC yes, it's just harder and ruins ships with D-mods.

zaimoni

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1717 on: May 23, 2017, 10:42:26 AM »

Enemies are RED. Allies are YELLOW. Friendlies are GREEN. What part of those colours are "extremely similar"?

If those were the colors used in the game, there would indeed be no problem whatsoever. But they aren't.
I was going to guess that the problem might have been
Code
"colorblindMode":true
in settings.json, since the colors in the forum post are comparable to the colors used in the game and the forum post colors are distinct.  However, when I tried this no colors obviously changed on a game in progress; only the intro screen was clearly adjusted for red-green colorblindness.  (Blue-yellow is much rarer and I wouldn't expect a color blind setting to work for that.)
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1718 on: May 23, 2017, 11:34:46 AM »

Enemies are RED. Allies are YELLOW. Friendlies are GREEN. What part of those colours are "extremely similar"?

If those were the colors used in the game, there would indeed be no problem whatsoever. But they aren't.
I was going to guess that the problem might have been
Code
"colorblindMode":true
in settings.json, since the colors in the forum post are comparable to the colors used in the game and the forum post colors are distinct.  However, when I tried this no colors obviously changed on a game in progress; only the intro screen was clearly adjusted for red-green colorblindness.  (Blue-yellow is much rarer and I wouldn't expect a color blind setting to work for that.)
Actually, GraphicsLib has a somewhat experimental colorblindness mode
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Sordid

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1719 on: May 23, 2017, 12:44:23 PM »

Quote
If those were the colors used in the game, there would indeed be no problem whatsoever. But they aren't.

Spoiler
[close]

You might want to take a look at it with another monitor than the one you're currently using, because that's definitely not normal.

Colors AxleMC131 used in his post: xxxxxxxx

Colors used in the game itself:       xxxxxxxx

If you're having trouble seeing how those are nowhere near the same and how the in-game colors are very similar, you might want to take a look at it on another monitor. It doesn't help that a lot of the UI elements that use those colors are either composed of thin lines (ship bounding boxes) or translucent (screen edge icons). God help you if you find yourself on a map with a brown background.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 01:42:13 PM by Sordid »
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PCCL

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1720 on: May 23, 2017, 12:50:24 PM »

Also the blue channel could actually be used.

blue is used for dead stuff. Though I imagine those can be shifted to grey without too much issue? note to self to play around with those settings when I get home
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1721 on: May 23, 2017, 12:56:30 PM »

@ Sordid:  Can you be more specific with "more menus to grind", among other things?

For me, more annoying is AI's new fighting quirks, such as kiting like an annoying turtle player in a fighting game unless they have the numbers to swarm and destroy the enemy like a pack of xenomorphs.  Combat is slower paced than before.  So slow that I have resorted to doubling the global combat speed to have something resembling combat during 0.54 to 0.7x.
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zaimoni

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1722 on: May 23, 2017, 02:48:23 PM »

Quote
If those were the colors used in the game, there would indeed be no problem whatsoever. But they aren't.

Spoiler
[close]

You might want to take a look at it with another monitor than the one you're currently using, because that's definitely not normal.

Colors AxleMC131 used in his post: xxxxxxxx

Colors used in the game itself:       xxxxxxxx
That is proof positive it's your monitor/driver combination; this looks typical for a software gamma correction that isn't needed. 
The colors on your monitor are nowhere close to what is requested by SS.
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zaimoni

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1723 on: May 23, 2017, 02:54:49 PM »

I was going to guess that the problem might have been
Code
"colorblindMode":true
in settings.json, since the colors in the forum post are comparable to the colors used in the game and the forum post colors are distinct.
Actually, GraphicsLib has a somewhat experimental colorblindness mode.
I had been holding off on installing GraphicsLib until I had a mod that used it, because of the warnings that it didn't play nice with integrated motherboard graphics (which the six-year-old target machine for SS is using).  If that setting only works with GraphicsLib, that's fine.
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.8a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1724 on: May 23, 2017, 03:08:02 PM »

That is proof positive it's your monitor/driver combination; this looks typical for a software gamma correction that isn't needed. 
The colors on your monitor are nowhere close to what is requested by SS.
Checking in a paint program shows that the colours Sordid is posting are almost exactly the same as the colours in HELMUT's pictures; a burnt orange, and a burnt greenish yellow. Checking on both my mac laptop and my windows desktop shows those same colours. As far as I can tell, those are pretty much the colours as requested by SS. They're certainly far closer to the in-game colours than AxleMC's bright red and bright yellow.
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