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[lyravega]

Unlimited Ballistic Ammo & Regenerating Missile Ammo
Personally, I don't like these changes one bit. And here is why. But before that, you need to understand how I play, and you'll most likely see why I don't like the changes at all. I play as a bounty hunter, at most 2D+1F fleet, rather small so to speak. I am able to take on pretty much anything in one go, except fleets with capital ships, which requires me to fight a battle of attrition.

Attrition you ask? If the enemy capital ship has a lot of ballistic/missile weapons, and just a few energy weapons, the battles sometimes drag on a lot. First thing I do is get rid of any escorts, then let the capital ship run out of ammo. When the enemy capital ship is out of ammo, most of the time it is forced to retreat, where I keep pushing on and eventually they have just a little bit of CR left, while I still have loads. Malfunctions here and there on the enemy ships, while mine are working fine. And eventually the enemy succumbs to the pressure.

And enemy missile boats. Have you seen a lot of these, and them firing at the same time? Lower your shields for a second, and you are dead. Overload, and you are dead. Keep your distance, be patient, and enemy runs out of missiles, which is an opening you've been waiting for. Also, I've run out of ammo more than a few times, which forced me to retreat or call in reinforcements. Contrary to what people thing, you can run out of ammo.

I can talk about many other examples that changes gameplay just because some weapons have limited ammo. But these examples have one common point: small fleets trying to take on bigger ones. Small ships trying to take on bigger ones. So my suggestions are: don't remove the ammo limit; don't make missiles regenerate. Instead, if you really want to adapt these, add two hull modifications instead; one for each, which would manufacture ammunition in combat. But make ammo limit still count for something, even if these modifications are present on the ship.

Flux-to-energy damage
I also don't like this change. Whenever I am using energy weapons, I often try to stay on high flux zone in order to receive a substantial damage bonus. One wild volley hitting my shields would mean overload for me, but that is the price to pay. More than 50% of the times that I am exchanging fire, I am well over 50-60% flux in order to get a bonus to keep the pressure on the enemy.

The main reason
The main reason I don't like these changes is, it takes away what makes each type of weapon unique (flux bonus for energy weapons, limited ammo for ballistics & missiles). I really think it is a mistake. We can always get a mod that "reverts" these changes, but still, please consider what you are doing.

[BillyRueben]

Unlimited Ballistic Ammo & Regenerating Missile Ammo
 First thing I do is get rid of any escorts, then let the capital ship run out of ammo. When the enemy capital ship is out of ammo, most of the time it is forced to retreat, where I keep pushing on and eventually they have just a little bit of CR left, while I still have loads. Malfunctions here and there on the enemy ships, while mine are working fine. And eventually the enemy succumbs to the pressure.

Pretty sure that this change was put in place to counter that exact strategy. If you want your ships punching above their weight now, you need to outfit them to properly fight at that disadvantage.

The main reason
The main reason I don't like these changes is, it takes away what makes each type of weapon unique (flux bonus for energy weapons, limited ammo for ballistics & missiles).

It doesn't. What makes ballistic weapons unique isn't their ammo count, it's a multitude of other factors. Can you honestly tell me that a phase beam is exactly the same as a thumper now? I don't understand why people thing the only thing separating energy and ballistic weapons was that ballistic weapons had ammo. Plus, the missile weapons still have ammo limitations, just certain ones like the salamander where timing was more critical than ammo conservation. Regenerating salamanders also means that the AI will use them more effectively.

Most of these changes (I'd imagine) were to close some exploitable gaps in the AI, and allow them to fight better within the rules of the game.

[Histidine]

A lot of hay was made over the ballistics ammo change in the announcement thread. This tweet by Alex got posted somewhere here before, but I'm linking it again so people know things are subject to change 

On missiles: The only ones that are actually getting regenerating or unlimited ammo are the Salamander MRM, Pilum LRM and Hurricane MIRV. Alex's reasoning (which I think is broadly correct) is that those three in particular are meant to be suppressive weapons fired continuously through an engagement, rather than used for opportunistic damage spikes like the other missiles are. (The AI in particular benefits from the changes here, especially for the Salamander.)

[TrashMan]

Unlimited Ballistic Ammo & Regenerating Missile Ammo
 First thing I do is get rid of any escorts, then let the capital ship run out of ammo. When the enemy capital ship is out of ammo, most of the time it is forced to retreat, where I keep pushing on and eventually they have just a little bit of CR left, while I still have loads. Malfunctions here and there on the enemy ships, while mine are working fine. And eventually the enemy succumbs to the pressure.

Pretty sure that this change was put in place to counter that exact strategy. If you want your ships punching above their weight now, you need to outfit them to properly fight at that disadvantage.

And yet this is a valid, logical strategy.
Smaller fleets have historically taken on larger ones by using hit-and-run attacks

[Linnis]

That is not what hit and run strategy is. That is let them punch me slowly till they get tired then I kill them strategy.

[CrashToDesktop]

And yet this is a valid, logical strategy.
Smaller fleets have historically taken on larger ones by using hit-and-run attacks

The hit-and-run tactic in our world has never intended to run the enemy dry of ammunition.  Hit-and-run involves taking a bite out of the enemy and running away, rinse and repeat.  Constantly engaging the enemy and re-engaging the enemy in seperate compaign map battles with massive strike forces would be more of a hit-and-run.

[lyravega]

That is not what hit and run strategy is...

"Hit and run" is an example for a tactic in "attrition war". The main topic is "attrition war" not just "hit and run".

-Taking escorts out
-Making enemy run dry (which usually leads to the one below)
-Chewing enemy hull/armor
-Lowering enemy CR while maintaining an acceptable one

All above are stuff I use in attrition war.

The hit-and-run tactic in our world...

I'm sure this game is based on 100% true historical facts and stuff. Right? And please tell me how the little list above doesn't belong in hit-and-run tactics?

[lyravega]

A lot of hay was made over the ballistics ammo change in the announcement thread. This tweet by Alex got posted somewhere here before, but I'm linking it again so people know things are subject to change 

Thanks for the link, this keeps the "uniqueness" (it's a word now) of the ballistic weapons while introducing a meaningful mechanic to the game.

[TrashMan]

And yet this is a valid, logical strategy.
Smaller fleets have historically taken on larger ones by using hit-and-run attacks

The hit-and-run tactic in our world has never intended to run the enemy dry of ammunition.  Hit-and-run involves taking a bite out of the enemy and running away, rinse and repeat.  Constantly engaging the enemy and re-engaging the enemy in seperate compaign map battles with massive strike forces would be more of a hit-and-run.

Without proper supply lines or logistical support, forces can (and have) run out of ammo. Running the enemy dry out of ammo/supplies IS a valid military strategy and there are numerous instances of admirals/generals deliberately provoking enemy forces they knew can't resupply.
Naturally, forces that were low on ammo would avoid combat if possible, conserve ammo and try to link up with support.

Since space is a premium commodity in space, and extra mass is the enemy, it makes sense to me that warships would use it carefully and would rely on supply ships to replenish stocks during breaks in combat.
Your average soldiers carrier a total of 5-6 clips for a weapon.
That is considered enough for 2 short engagements, but when caught in protracted ones, soldiers did run out of ammo.

***

The abuse in this case is re-engaging and costing the enemy the CR. Can be easily fixed by having the AI go for resupply or including repair/resupply ships that boost CR recovery of all ships.

[CrashToDesktop]

@lyravega
Sure, it's not real.  But it does seems corny in a game, especially in a game where you can't resupply ammunition in any way, shape, or form.

@TrashMan
Yup, I know enough of that.  But this isn't history or real life, as lyravega said.

~~

I can agree that this change does somewhat make the weapon types less unique, but the upcoming change with magazines and reload (from what I can tell, mostly for Ballistic weapons) should help with that.  I'd really love it if Alex continued on with this.

Also, why should energy weapons be king of the hill in terms of how they work?  If your playstyle happens to not fit in with the changes, adapt and change.  I'm perfectly fine with it (if anything, overjoyed if this and reloads get added).  Not everything is going to stay the same in this Alpha version of the game.

[TrashMan]

@TrashMan
Yup, I know enough of that.  But this isn't history or real life, as lyravega said.

This isn't RL, so logical/rational behavior for various actors shouldn't be there?

Should we have any faction act by un-logic, since logic is realistic?

"Sir, we out of ammo and badly damaged! I suggest we ram the nearest star!"
"Good thinking officer! All hands, stay on the ship! Vent our oxygen!"
"Dumping fuel now sir!"

[SafariJohn]

TrashMan, quit being so passive-aggressive. It's not adding anything to the discussion.

[TrashMan]

And here I though I was being funny.

Maybe you should quit being so over-sensitive?

I know intent/tone doesn't travel well via text, but lower the projection.
Here, have some smileys, maybe they will help

[SafariJohn]

Smilies make anything better. 

[TrashMan]

We cool?