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Total Members Voted: 1431

[Sy]

as Amazigh says, "close support" is pretty much exactly what you are describing the missiles are useful for.

Starsector has a bit of a missile problem in general, and things like Harpoons are the main culprits. the old Voidspears were very similar in that respect. so now they are more of a support missile, while the new Rage SRMs are powerful damage dealers that still mostly manage to avoid the issues of Harpoons & co.

[ProdigyToby]

as Amazigh says, "close support" is pretty much exactly what you are describing the missiles are useful for.

Starsector has a bit of a missile problem in general, and things like Harpoons are the main culprits. the old Voidspears were very similar in that respect. so now they are more of a support missile, while the new Rage SRMs are powerful damage dealers that still mostly manage to avoid the issues of Harpoons & co.

  Those rage SRM are not that great either.  The damage is okay, their accuracy is questionable, but there is already a better vanilla option.  I guess you're right though, they do avoid the "problem" of Harpoons I guess, in that Harpoons are a solid choice all around, whereas the rage SRM makes you think twice about buying it.  Frankley I dont see a point in them, if your going to increase the risk of damage to your hull by getting close enough for these missiles to hit (and you have to be VERY close because these things lose fire in like one second) then they SHOULD do more damage than the Harpoons, which are a medium range missile.  Right now the harpoon offers better damage than the SRM rage without the increase in risk because of its range.

  Im sure most people have already played vanilla and are getting tired of it already and thus come to this forum to mod their game for something different, which Is why I make my best effort to see if I can make these modded weapon systems and ships work, but alot of the time I just go back to the vanilla systems because they are just more tried, true, and effective.  I feel like modders are afraid to make something just alittle bit too strong (maybe theres some kind of modder council or something and they will get voted off ) when the whole point of modding, in my opinion, is to make the game more fun and increase the longevity.  I want the SRM rage and the other modded weapon systems to feel "impactful" at least, and its not what I get when I use the new Voidspear or these new SRM, they are obviously tuned very finely to not overshadow the vanilla options, which is good "balanced" design.  They are alittle too tuned though, to the point where the vanilla option kinda feels like the best choice even though you went through the trouble of downloading the mod for something different.  Im just ranting at this point though, getting off topic.  I think the aesthetics of this particular series of ships is amazing, although they feel alittle underwhelming at the moment, especially in the hands of the AI who cant make use of how these ships are designed. 

[Tartiflette]

   You see, the core of the problem is that vanilla balance usually covers a very wide spectrum. The difference between a (D) Hound and a Hyperion is mindbogglingly large, so is the difference between an Arbalest and a HVD, or an Assault Chaingun and a Heavy Mauler... The issue here is that missiles are the exception.

   A large portion of them are very efficient, wildly available, and placed very high up there in term of punch you get for your OP spent (way too much powerful imo). Harpoons, Sabots, Reapers, Atropos, Annihilator Pods, Typhoons, Tornadoes, Cyclones, Locusts... All those are already terrific weapons systems, that leaves very little room for modders to add new missiles: even if they are only slightly more efficient than their closest vanilla counterpart in a specialized area, they instantly becomes overpowered.

   Since most modded factions' lore require faction specific weapons to fill every role instead of using directly the vanilla ones, they then have to use sub-par equivalent with a twist to make them interesting. And in the end I think most of those modded missiles are actually more balanced next to other types of weapons compared to vanilla missiles.

[Alphascrub]

 So what was the point of voidspear missile change?  I used to use these as a generic missile to add some extra dps, now they are completely something different.  If you try to use these in a close range situation (I think the description says its a close support missile?) they literally fly in a slow arc in front of your ship in groups of 4 like "hey shoot us down".  If you try to use them vs anything with more than one decent point defense maybe like 1 or 2 missiles will actually make it, and they also feel like they do a lot less damage.  The only time ive seen these new voidspears do anything useful is when using them from a pretty decent range (so they can do that silly arc at a safe range) and hitting a larger ship because of their new slow speed.  Even then the damage is pretty mediocre (4 of these hitting a sunder did about 15% shield damage?  Which was quickly regenerated), and very bad vs hulls.  I thought they were fine before, they had a purpose, which was just extra on command dps when you needed it, now they are so awkward and ineffective, unless maybe you manage to hit something with like 12 of them or something. 

  I really like the new destroyer.  Decent tanky-ness, its fast, you can put shredders on there to be a good support ship.

I feel like the change made voidspear more of a general purpose missile. Their cheap,  and can put pressure on shields and do damage to armor If a ship is already close to overload then these can push it over the edge rather it be from PD systems or it actually hit the shields... In return some AI will allow the missile to take a hit rather than overload. Basically in mind mind the voidspear is an excellent thing when you want to throw it at a target and create pressure. One way or the other when used properly it can fit a number of roles and function pretty well in those roles. Its far from the best missile but its still pretty great in general purpose.

[Cycerin]

I'm not going to change a balanced weapon to be better than vanilla equivalents in all situations - it's okay if there are some weapons offered by the faction that are preferrable to vanilla weapons in many situations, but not all the weapons should be like that. This is also because faction mods offer both content for the player to use as well as an additional enemy - fighting the faction should be unique in its own way and not completely overwhelming, with opportunity for counterplay. But anyway what I'm concerned with is finding niches and enabling an interesting tradeoff, so like you say, think twice before buying it. If a weapon has no arguable worth whatsoever, then it needs fixing, but I don't feel there are any cases like that in the mod currently.

I think the new Voidspear is good as a pressure weapon in a lot of situations, especially with missile spec and when backed up with long range ballistic weapons.

[Sy]

Right now the harpoon offers better damage than the SRM rage without the increase in risk because of its range.

actually, Rage SRMs have higher damage than Harpoons. the small version fires double 600 damage missiles, compared to Harpoons' single 750. and although they lack range and maneuverability, they also have higher speed, which makes them harder to shoot down and more suited as dedicated "finisher"-missiles. overall i prefer using Rages now, at least on ships i pilot myself.

i don't think Rages are better than Harpoons, but they better fit what i want out of limited ammo high explosive missiles on my flagship. the fact that they don't feel as stupidly unfair (as they don't work as well in large swarms, and require better timing and aiming) as Harpoons do in some cases is a nice bonus, to me.

[ProdigyToby]

   You see, the core of the problem is that vanilla balance usually covers a very wide spectrum. Snip

  That probably IS the problem now that I think about it.  Vanilla missiles might just be too damn good already.

I feel like the change made voidspear more of a general purpose missile. Their cheap,  and can put pressure on shields....

  Really?  I feel like they do very little damage now, and just have trouble surviving to reach their target.  The damage on armor is very questionable though, feels very weak.  The old Voidspear felt more general purpose because it went straight for the target for some general purpose energy damage.

I'm not going to change a balanced weapon to be better than vanilla equivalents in all situations - it's okay if there are some weapons offered by the faction that are preferrable to vanilla weapons in many situations, but not all the weapons should be like that. This is also because faction mods offer both content for the player to use as well as an additional enemy - fighting the faction should be unique in its own way and not completely overwhelming,

  I dont think that will ever be the case because the AI just throws ships into the fray with disregard to how they are designed, so Blackrock tends to be one of the easier factions for me to deal with.  One of the issues I see with the voidspear is that in addition to not doing a great deal more damage than a vanilla alternative, its also unsafer to use because of its behavoir when its fired.  What was the intention in having it do its very unique arc?  Sometimes its so strange because when you fire it up close it starts going crazy and just does these turns in space for a good twenty seconds before it hits its target.

[Cycerin]

No, the weird maneuvering that occasionally happens is an unforeseen effect of lowering the missiles' maneuverability. I need to look into it for the next patch, but I haven't really had much time for modding lately.

[Sy]

i've noticed another little weirdness with Voidspears: ships firing them at long range, mainly carriers that try to stay away from all enemy ships, seem fond of venting flux after firing only one or two of the four missiles from a Voidspear Pod, which interrupts the firing of the salvo. i imagine that's just an unfortunate combination of long range, flux cost and firing in salvos rather than single missiles.

[Cycerin]

I'll probably just remove the flux cost from them actually, it leads to weird *** like that, and doesn't meaningfully impact gameplay that much otherwise, except meaning ships cant 0-flux when firing them.

[HellBent]

Best looking, most fun and just damn best mod faction out there.
Need more good ships like that.
Only feedback would give is that the advanced destroyer is not worth the very high deployment cost in battles and strike craft appear VERY rarely in blackrock systems

[TaLaR]

Only feedback would give is that the advanced destroyer is not worth the very high deployment cost in battles

Nope, totally disagree here.
Desdinova is the ultimate playership (all mods included) in terms of having best combination of mobility, firepower and range. The only other comparable ship is IBB Stheno (which may be actually superior overall), but it's an unique.

[Sy]

i agree on Desdinova, but "that advanced destroyer" might mean Morpheus. i don't think that needs a buff either, but it might feel underpowered (for it's very high cost) to newer players, as it takes a bit of practise and a large fleet around it to make full use of its special abilities.

[TaLaR]

i agree on Desdinova, but "that advanced destroyer" might mean Morpheus. i don't think that needs a buff either, but it might feel underpowered (for it's very high cost) to newer players, as it takes a bit of practise and a large fleet around it to make full use of its special abilities.

Missed that possibility .
Morpheus is too narrowly specialized for my taste:
- it is good against smaller and same-size ships, especially ones without 360 degree shields (which is most of them)
- since it's builtin missiles can not be reasonably dodged, it is perfect counter to mobility-reliant ships like Desdinova/Medusa, but such ships aren't too much trouble under AI's control anyway.
- Not so good against Capitals with their huge flux and health pools. If enemy still is not flux maxed after triple missile burst + adsorb attack, Morpheus can't do much past this point.
- Also very weak against Cruisers/Capitals with decent beam weapons.

[Sy]

yeah, powerful beam weapons like Tachyon Lance or the new High Intensity Laser seem to be Morpheus' hard counter. i think the inbuilt armor hullmod should have some beam damage reduction. the ship system helps getting out of trouble when targeted, since those beams tend to have very low turret turn speed, but it's still an issue if you're trying to do damage.

but otherwise i think Morpheus does fine against large ships -- just not in a straight 1v1. it's extremely effective at overwhelming enemies that are already under some pressure from other allied ships, even if that pressure wouldn't otherwise amount to any noteworthy damage done. and a strong blast from the "absorb attack" (like when several torpedos are sucked in) can put huge pressure on pretty much anything that isn't a Paragon.

also keep in mind that Morpheus' absorb ability can be used as powerful support when one of your own ships is in trouble. getting rid of a missile/torpedo salvo or providing a couple crucial seconds of negated enemy fire can really mean the difference between a dead cruiser and one that's ready to keep on fighting after a short flux vent.