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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Anubis-class Cruiser (12/20/24)

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What would you like to see in Blackrock?

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards  (Read 1901345 times)

Silver Silence

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 - Update out! (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2415 on: April 19, 2016, 09:32:51 AM »

I always look at the Eschaton and think it should be a battlecruiser or something because seeing it in the market, I don't see any obvious cargo crates or those big Phaeton tanker pieces that make me think "oh, that's a freighter".



I find fighters to be the perfect tool for a brdy-only fleet, personally, as being outnumbered and not having enough distractions nullifies a lot of brdy's strengths. Having knights around to keep them in combat is quite cost-effective. It's mostly vanilla fighters that aren't useful, a lot of mods bring quality fighters to the table that are well worth the supplies.

Does it still count if a fleet is mostly an angry swarm of BRDY Serkets? Phase makes them amazing fast-cap units as well as making them pretty survivable and they also amusingly use it to land for repairs as quicky as possible. And if you just throw enough of them on the field they tickle just about anything that doesn't have exceptional laser PD to death.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 10:41:35 AM by Silver Silence »
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Chronosfear

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 - Update out! (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2416 on: April 19, 2016, 09:45:14 AM »

I always look at the Eschaton and think it should be a battlecruiser or something because seeing it in the market, I don't see any obvious cargo crates or those big Phaeton tanker pieces that make me think "oh, that's a freighter".



I find fighters to be the perfect tool for a brdy-only fleet, personally, as being outnumbered and not having enough distractions nullifies a lot of brdy's strengths. Having knights around to keep them in combat is quite cost-effective. It's mostly vanilla fighters that aren't useful, a lot of mods bring quality fighters to the table that are well worth the supplies.

Does it still count if a fleet is mostly an angry swarm of BRDY Serkets? Phase makes them amazing fast-cap units as well as making them pretty survivable and they also amusingly use it to land for repairs as quicky as possible. And if you just throw enough of them on the field .

Release Hell! BRDY Serkets are one of the coolest hottest fighters around the modiverse. Your fleet seems pure fun.
I´m currently running a Diable Fighter Fleet which is aweseome, too
BTW : I remember your Battleship from the "old" days  :'( and miss those ships. how did you get it ( or the mod back in working order )
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 - Update out! (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2417 on: April 19, 2016, 11:08:05 AM »

I only have the ships and weapons but in Nexerelin, that seems to be enough to make them appear around the place. Just landed at a size 4 Independant market that had two Hadrons on the open market. The ships and weapons are pretty much in working order, you can move all the necessary info from ifed to any particular mod or the core files and they should work. It's just a few minutes with Notepad++ and a spreadsheet program. I was tempted to put everything from Ascendancy into my game but I fear for my load times. Plus Ascendancy did it's balance a little differently if I remember correct, not sure how well they'd fare in the vanilla modiverse.

And Diable fighters, I've given Valiants a go because come on, space fighter jets that transform into EVE's Ogres but they do tend to get shot up quite a bit more than Serkets because of their inability to phase and buzz around to a new attack angle like gnats with guns. I did also try Lightning phase bombers and I strongly feel that those things not having a souped up version of the lightning gun as their strike weapon so their pilots can yell "Lightning bolt!" is a missed opportunity and in the ridiculously big blob fights that occur in Nexerelin when invasion and strike fleets all butt heads together, I can just arbitrarily run out of my ability to give orders and they start getting really derpy trying to take on ships with a single Burst PD. Even without orders, Serkets work pretty well and I can always click the lot of them and tell them to run down a ship if they're doing that thing where the AI doesn't want to get close enough to engage this lone fleeing ship because the tailguns might hurt them. At least with fighters, I can deploy more when the AI acts up, as opposed to a few hundred thousand credits on a new cruiser, weapons and crew.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 - Update out! (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2418 on: April 19, 2016, 12:36:36 PM »

Re: Convergence.  Much like "combat freighters", I'd love to see a bit more combat ability on a "combat carrier".
yeah, that would be nice. something like a large missile mount for support and enough durability and smaller mounts to reliably deal with a few fighters or frigates.
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 - Update out! (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2419 on: April 19, 2016, 02:04:35 PM »

Re: Convergence.  Much like "combat freighters", I'd love to see a bit more combat ability on a "combat carrier".
yeah, that would be nice. something like a large missile mount for support and enough durability and smaller mounts to reliably deal with a few fighters or frigates.
That's actually a different thing than I was asking for - a traditional carrier would have a large missile mount or two (see: Astral), and be intended to stay in the back and toss around fire support.  I'd be looking more for energy or ballistic mounts for a ship that can fight in the front lines - maybe not as well as a dedicated combat vessel, but at least durable enough to be worth fielding without fighters involved.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 - Update out! (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2420 on: April 19, 2016, 03:45:50 PM »

ah, okay. sorry about that. ^^

i'd be fine with either, although i think the sprite doesn't really look like a ship that's supposed to fight at the front lines.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2421 on: April 20, 2016, 03:05:30 AM »

Here's something I did for fun:

It's Forlorn Hope except you play as a Morpheus instead of a Paragon. To install: extract into /mods, over the current BRDY v0.8.5 folder.

Note: Very hard even if you know what you're doing. Try not to rage.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2422 on: April 22, 2016, 03:24:14 PM »

i found a small bug that's caused by ships having fractional deployment costs, specifically the Eurypterus' 9.5 in this case. Alex replied that fractionals aren't supported, so you should probably change it to just 9 or 10.
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2423 on: April 22, 2016, 04:25:00 PM »

The Asura works fine on my end. The speed boost was removed, but the phase cloak uses the same stat script as vanilla phase cloaks.

i found a small bug that's caused by ships having fractional deployment costs, specifically the Eurypterus' 9.5 in this case. Alex replied that fractionals aren't supported, so you should probably change it to just 9 or 10.

Thanks for finding that out. What do you think, is the Eurypterus worth 9 or 10?

Here's something I did for fun:

It's Forlorn Hope except you play as a Morpheus instead of a Paragon. To install: extract into /mods, over the current BRDY v0.8.5 folder.

Note: Very hard even if you know what you're doing. Try not to rage.

Lol im gonna try this later. also you used the old morpheus sprite : (
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2424 on: April 22, 2016, 09:36:52 PM »

Thanks for finding that out. What do you think, is the Eurypterus worth 9 or 10?
I'd say 9 at most to me...
To be honest, I don't know how to use this ship right. Narrow shield, only three frontal medium hardpoints for your main firepower, maneuverable especially compared to other BRDY ships
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2425 on: April 23, 2016, 04:02:37 AM »

Asura's working fine for me as well. are you sure you're not just getting confused by using it as player-piloted ship? ^^


i'd say the Eurypterus deserves a 10, compared to Shrimp's 9 and Scorpion's 13 (although i also feel the Scorpion is overprized compared to the other two BRDY and the four vanilla destroyers).

i use mine as artillery with two Hypervelocity Drivers and an Extended Gale. that's less firepower than something like an Enforcer could bring, but the high base speed and mobility system make it very good at kiting even fast targets, and avoiding getting surrounded. although the Extended Shields hullmod is still pretty much necessary, mostly because of missiles like the Hurricane MIRV that can just bypass the narrow shield and can't be stopped entirely by just two small PD mounts.

i think two Dual Shards + some missile also works nicely.

the ship does however have the issue of the ai not being able to properly handle multiple hardpoint weapon groups. my setup works well with HVDs and Gales grouped together, as they have identical projectile velocity and almost identical range, but it can be a problem for other combinations of non-missile weapons. maybe either the two hybrids or the universal should be changed from hardpoint to a narrow turrent arc?
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OOZ662

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2426 on: April 24, 2016, 03:02:38 PM »

Is the Particle Rifle meant to have a weird ammo count? Two clips of 6 for 16 shots so it actually "reloads" three times.
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2427 on: April 25, 2016, 01:01:16 PM »

It kinda ended up in that weird spot due to continous balance tweaks. I might change it to make sure it sums up more elegantly. But most of the time, you won't notice this ingame.
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OOZ662

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2428 on: April 25, 2016, 01:59:24 PM »

Well, that's why I ask instead of stating, because I know most people aren't as weird as me. ;D I never noticed it until I was staring at the stats because it just sits on the back of my Nevermore in an auto group plinking things all day.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2429 on: April 29, 2016, 11:13:44 AM »

sooo... i've been using a few Knights for a bit now and.. i don't know what to think anymore. ^^
i've long considered Knight my 2nd least fav BRDY ship (after Convergence! as i've mentioned a few times already :3) but i gave it another chance now, mostly because i think the sprite actually looks really cool.

the much-criticized turret layout is rather strange, but i can see a certain charm in it. it's somewhere between "awkward" and "creative". let's call it "unconventional". :p
i think the two energy and the small starboard ballistic turrets are the main flaws, i've mostly just left them empty. i suppose they could be used for dedicated broadside loadouts, but those don't synergize well with the Arc Jet Burner, the ai has some trouble with handling them in general, and it would sacrifice the one thing that Knight is pretty good at: swarms of small missiles.
i still found a few loadouts that i like, generally using the frontal hardpoints and at least one of the frontal medium turrets for ballistic firepower (Light Needlers + Extended Gale, Volley Guns + short Gale, or even Shard Guns + Shredder Battery) and the other four universals for missiles that aren't too limited by ammo (like Scalaron Pulses, obviously, or Salamanders). the remaining ballistic turrets are PD.

i always use fighter-heavy fleets, even in vanilla (with increased ship cap) and a BRDY lineup with SS+ balance works very well with swarms of Serkets and Kraits. so having a few carriers right at the frontline that are also able to take and deal about as much damage as an additional destroyer, seems like a good idea. and with Wing Command skill and Expanded Flight Decks hullmod they can take in, rearm and launch Vespas at crazy speeds, effectively flinging near-endless chains of Fury torpedos in all directions.

so for a while now i thought i actually do like Knights after all! \o/


but... :[

for some reason they seem to have serious suicidal tendencies. at first i assumed it was just bad luck, but after several lost Knights, i doubt that's the case. despite now being piloted by cautious officers with skills and loadouts focused on weapon range and mobility, they still keep getting themselves into trouble, only backing off when it's already too late.
the really frustrating thing is that i've been using two Gonodactylus(es?) with short-range loadouts and aggressive officers (and the same Arc Jet Burners) with great success. they were the first combat ships i added to my fleet, i'm now lvl 63, and only once did one of them get disabled. iirc, there were only three other battles total where one of them fell below 50% hull.

i'm not quite sure what's causing this behaviour, but my best guess would be that it's a combination of a) cruiser class, b) carrier hybrid and c) ship system.
despite aggressive officers, the Gonodactylus seem to be a lot more careful about engaging enemies while outnumbered or against large ships. they do burn right into enemies on occassion, but usually only when they can easily deal with whoever awaits them at their target destination.
i believe the ai considers Knights as normal combat cruisers (as they are neither civilian ships nor dedicated carriers) and as such consistently overestimates their strength, not taking into account that roughly half their value comes from the flight deck. that causes them to burn into more dangerous situations more often, and not back off as quickly when things start going badly.

i can think of two solutions to this issue:
1) forcing the ai to consider them as destroyers to better match their actual combat power. i have no clue about coding, so i don't know if this is even possible, but -- assuming my above guesses are correct -- it might solve the problem quite neatly.
2) changing their ship system. giving them Burst Maneuvering Jets, for example, would likely allow them to better advance towards enemies without getting overwhelmed, and to retreat more effectively once that does happen. on the other hand, it would mean they'd lose part of what differentiates them from many other BRDY ships. :/
alternatively, a system like the dual Sentinel Drones of Eschaton or Bulwark Drone of Convergence would also remove their most reckless charges, and provide some distraction for enemies. and i think drones would also fit the carrier hybrid theme.

as it stands now, i think i'll have to 'downgrade' back to Typheus. those don't provide flight decks right in the thick of the battle and don't add much firepower by themselves (not to mention they just don't feel quite as badass), but at least they're very good at staying out of trouble.

and maybe we do get that Knight revamp at some point! ^_^
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