Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

All of its killing power is locked in hardpoints, meaning it has to turn to kill. If non-Reckless AI wasn't so bad with hardpoints I would say 9 is fine. It also has less missile power, and PD power than either of the other two destroyers. It's not as tanky as the Enforcer, nor does it have the Shrike's shielding, which means it gets killed a lot more in an escort role.

I still don't buy it. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, just trying to clarify; 8 DP Hammerhead alone is too much of a buff all by itself. a DP reduction with no nerfs to the Hammerhead has some issues.

At some 72% of the cost of Sunder, 8 DP hammerhead becomes an outright superior version to SO Sunder. It becomes a superior version of the Enforcer at any point besides early game due to their flux differences and system difference. Enforcer's armor is unfortunately not very useful in the 'midgame' which I vaguely define as bounties with a capital or many cruisers, station battles and colony crises. Enforcer's low top speed makes it too slow to react to overwhelming damage. Making the 2 missiles into composites makes this even more extreme. It does not make the Hammerhead a PD escort by default (Certainly an option though) - it also becomes a DP efficient weapons platform. It actually threatens to dethrone the Manticore for escort duty; you can make a 2 LAC, 2 Light Needler, 2 Mauler setup with BRF, ITU, Escort Package. Or you could use some PD Elite railgun/lac/railgun nonsense if you like. Either way with AAF, this seems a bit much when it also has better top speed and shields all for 4 less DP. The hardpoints of Hammerhead are a thing to consider, but 4 less DP is I think worth it in this suggested buff. It would have less missile power than both, but the lack of OP on the Manticore makes it struggle to get full value from both its ballistics and its missiles, while the enforcer's weakness of very low speed and flux dissipation do not get compensated enough by 4 small missiles.

8 DP Hammerhead almost entirely making Shrike irrelevant, as the cheapest non-buffalo2 destroyer for dealing damage available - with potential CH options. Hammerhead would usually become the superior option, I feel.

Hammerhead can't hunt frigates as well in the early to mid game. Late game the medium missile support + medium turreted energy makes it a better escort. Hammerheads also can't escort the Retribution, Aurora, Odyssey, or Nova effectively due to lacking a movement system. Granted the Shrike does not use its system as much as it could due to turning towards nearby enemies.

Once the retreating AI is fixed, the Shike's Plasma Burn can be used to save it. In the meantime, setting a waypoint until it's backed off enough and then direct retreating works. Hammerheads have to be told to retreat well before the majority of the fleet if you're running a faster fleet.

Why would I pay 10 DP for a Hammerhead when I can pay 11 DP for the same kinetic firepower on a Shrike with CH Sarissa? The only downside is OP cost, which is negligible as you don't have to pay for as many vents thanks to the kinetic damage being free.

[Killer of Fate]

note Hammerhead with Mauler and Velociraptor is really strong, whilst Arbalest, Heavy Mortar Arbalest isn't because of the current hardpoint glitch

After the next update this should be somewhat fixed, and Hammerhead could see far more play by the virtue of it having stronger options

information no longer certain

[Princess of Evil]

A frigate will inevitably get cocky, and get vaporized by 4 ACGs worth of firepower before it can even reverse its engines.

Composite Hammerhead would get better at SO, but i would like to see what Alex wants to cook with SO first.

[Killer of Fate]

A frigate will inevitably get cocky, and get vaporized by 4 ACGs worth of firepower before it can even reverse its engines.

Composite Hammerhead would get better at SO, but i would like to see what Alex wants to cook with SO first.

tbh, I want SO to be left as is...

The issue lies somewhere else

And a change to SO could be far too costly. It could also severe a large chunk of the playerbase. There are a lot of people who enjoy SO in its current form. Arguing for nerfing it is like arguing for nerfing Paragon...

The only difference is that dev said it should be done or at least considered if I recall correctly... Which now makes it okay to say SO should be nerfed. If dev said Paragon was overtuned, people would agree that it would need a nerf too... Probably.

[Princess of Evil]

I think the main problem with SO is that there just aren't a lot of ships that want it, and the ones that do are already pretty strong as is.

[Killer of Fate]

I think the main problem with SO is that there just aren't a lot of ships that want it, and the ones that do are already pretty strong as is.

Ah, yes... Fury... Known for being really strong as is. Everyone loves it. It makes it always to at least B tier on all the tier lists...

[Princess of Evil]

Let's not talk about the SO crutch fest that is half of high tech. :p

[Killer of Fate]

Let's not talk about the SO crutch fest that is half of high tech. :p

Eradicator, Cerberus, Lasher aren't really that good in the late game either... At least not interesting to use...

Eradicator is pretty much just a Velociraptor + Mauler spam. Lasher is squishy as heck and it's AI isn't optimised to use LMGs... And it also suffers from hardpoint bug and extreme Tachyon Lance vulnerability

Aurora whilst cool is extremely DP expensive and doesn't use its system aggressively enough to make up for it. And suffers from lack of range or reliance on missiles... It's generally really frustrating to use

Wolf has horrible shield profile and lacks energy. Shrike is extremely fragile and slow for what it's supposed to be...

Enforcer is also just a Velociraptor + Mauler beast that has the kill potential of a pacifist hippie due to extreme lack of mobility. And also requires a XIV variant to fulfil perfectionists thrills making its gameplay more frustrating

Sunder uses beams. That's one ship that doesn't suffer as much without SO, but generally it is also an extremely frustrating ship to use

[Thaago]

For the Wolf, S-mod extended shield is a game changer. It goes from "free kill, just apply flanking!" to "bugger, it just teleported away again". I honestly like the things now, which is so weird to say. Medium energies have gotten much less flux hungry at the same time that there are more ways than ever to get more flux on ships, so it can finally run its guns reliably.

[Killer of Fate]

For the Wolf, S-mod extended shield is a game changer. It goes from "free kill, just apply flanking!" to "bugger, it just teleported away again". I honestly like the things now, which is so weird to say. Medium energies have gotten much less flux hungry at the same time that there are more ways than ever to get more flux on ships, so it can finally run its guns reliably.

And then it runs out of peak operating time, cause it spends 90% of its life venting like a depressed artist

[Princess of Evil]

PPT management is art.

>Eradicator is pretty much just a Velociraptor + Mauler spam

If you're boring and don't want it to do damage, yes.

[Killer of Fate]

PPT management is art.

>Eradicator is pretty much just a Velociraptor + Mauler spam

If you're boring and don't want it to do damage, yes.

so, what's your build?
I never used Eradicators, I just got off the assumption that was the general consensus it followed

[Princess of Evil]

so, what's your build?

Just your basic SO build, ACGs and your pick of anti-shield. It has some trouble with same weight targets until the enemy runs out of missiles, then just bursts all over them. Choice of normal/P is whether you want to kill bigger targets or smaller ones.

[Killer of Fate]

so, what's your build?

Just your basic SO build, ACGs and your pick of anti-shield. It has some trouble with same weight targets until the enemy runs out of missiles, then just bursts all over them. Choice of normal/P is whether you want to kill bigger targets or smaller ones.

Okay, what's your non-SO build?

[Thaago]

...
And then it runs out of peak operating time, cause it spends 90% of its life venting like a depressed artist

I've never had a problem with it spending too much time venting. Heck, if its venting thats usually a good thing, it means that its been doing a lot of damage to the enemy to have built up soft flux! In terms of PPT, Combat endurance (either officer or Support Doctrine) brings it up to 240 with 25% less decay, which lasts through most normal fights. Hardened subsystems brings it up to 330 with 50% less decay, which is enough for the big multi-capital fights.

note Hammerhead with Mauler and Velociraptor is really strong, whilst Arbalest, Heavy Mortar Arbalest isn't because of the current hardpoint glitch

After the next update this should be somewhat fixed, and Hammerhead could see far more play by the virtue of it having stronger options

Just saw this again; what is the hardpoint bug/glitch you keep referencing? The aiming issue? That's really only a problem with fast frigates and fighters not taking into account their own strafing speed, it doesn't effect destroyers very much if at all. Currently Heavy Mortar is strong on the Hammerhead thanks to the reduced recoil. Imo its the best weapon for the ship's mediums, or it could go with 1 and a 3rd kinetic if facing shield tanks.