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Author Topic: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis  (Read 660 times)

Bungee_man

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Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« on: November 24, 2024, 05:31:37 PM »

I've seen a bunch of posts here and elsewhere from new players confused that a faction that's at 100/100 reputation with them is harassing/attacking their colonies. It's an understandable thing to be confused about - reputation impacts a lot of subtle things, like patrol behavior, but sometimes doesn't show up where you'd reasonably expect it to.

As a simple fix, base Crisis growth rate could be scaled between 0.5 and 2.0 (rate * 2^(-rep/100)), as reputation moves between 100 and -100, with a line item indicating that while being on good/bad terms makes them more reluctant/enthusiastic about harming your interests, the factions do have their own interests to worry about, and will continue to act against you until the conflict is resolved decisively.

As a more detailed change, reputation could impact dialogue where it makes sense to do so. A 100/100 Hegemony player might be able to say "hey, we're friends", and get a response along the lines of "friends don't let friends recklessly prod at weapons of mass destruction", for instance, and certain openings here or there might be more polite - a Luddic Chuch fleet might be unwilling to extort or threaten the player at high reputation, and a Diktat raider might say "Listen, I'm as confused as you are, but I have my orders" before attacking.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2024, 05:34:24 PM by Bungee_man »
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Serenitis

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2024, 02:30:20 AM »

This would need the player's ability to accumulate reputation to be curtailed significantly and/or reputation degrading over time.
Currently it is trivially easy to get 100/100 rep with all major factions without even trying - I've done this accidentally many times just paying bills with bounties.
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Darloth

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2024, 06:25:11 AM »

This would need the player's ability to accumulate reputation to be curtailed significantly and/or reputation degrading over time.
Currently it is trivially easy to get 100/100 rep with all major factions without even trying - I've done this accidentally many times just paying bills with bounties.

Given the descriptions of what that reputation means, that seems reasonable anyway.  100 makes you kind of a big deal to that faction.

It is also very weird how factions at 100 rep will happily fight you in a colony crisis, so I think something ought to be done.  More options that -spend- your reputation to achieve goals would probably be my suggestion.  Maybe the league won't blockade you quite so much if you keep buying them off with, say, 40 point reputation hits, but then of course you need to actively be doing a lot FOR them, which seems reasonable to me.  Perhaps a temporary reprieve to get your colonies in order before the Heg inspectors return, for a chunk of rep, but only once, for their crisis?  Stuff like that.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2024, 09:54:17 AM by Darloth »
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2024, 07:10:15 AM »

There's definitely room to improve the reputation system. For now it's at least easy to understand and it doesn't accidentally incentivize unfun play patterns. I think of it kind of like the upcoming simulator update where it's a game system that does its job *fine.* It will probably need to be improved at some point, but that improvement would be a big chunk of time spent not developing other things like the endgame content. I don't think there's any rush to fix it and I'm okay with that.

Colony crises are a big part of the midgame content, and bypassing some of them just by farming reputation wouldn't be all that fun. At the end of the day, you are just a mercenary captain as far as the core worlds are concerned. They may like you a lot, but if your colonies start to undermine their influence then they're going to take action. At most it would be nice for the game to at least acknowledge your reputation by having things play out a little differently depending on how much they like you.

If you have high reputation with a faction they can send envoys to ask you nicely first. Then the actual crisis happens when you refuse. You could even have a story point option to use your connections within the faction to lower the strength of the crisis (it's probably too much to ask to prevent it outright). If a faction doesn't like you, then you get no warning and no story point options.

Diving further into the reputation system itself, it might be a good idea to have your captain develop a reputation based on your actions. Something like an honor meter, where doing good deeds raises your honor and backstabbing people lowers your honor. If you have low honor your maximum reputation with most factions would be reduced, while it would be increased for unscrupulous groups like pirates and tri-tachyon. Having high honor on the flipside would raise your maximum reputation with most factions and have an inverse effect with pirates and tri-tachyon. The idea sounds cool, and I want to think of way to make work, but the problem is that right now it's just reputation with extra steps. It would need to do more to justify its existence.
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Scorpixel

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2024, 07:32:16 AM »

This would need the player's ability to accumulate reputation to be curtailed significantly and/or reputation degrading over time.
Currently it is trivially easy to get 100/100 rep with all major factions without even trying - I've done this accidentally many times just paying bills with bounties.
Straight-up copying Rimworld's homework might do the job. Have a "baseline" toward which reputation drifts toward over time and ranks of trust survive going down, as in "cooperative" could be reached at +90 and stay cooperative until +50, with reputation(goodwill) being spent through actions/dialogue options.

As an example: "Request aid (-20 goodwill: requires:welcoming)" should be cookie-cutter enough to apply for a variety of situations.

For harder progression, have those thresholds not function linearly, neutral->cordial-->friendly--->welcoming----->cooperative, that or have the impact of certain friendly actions (trade, exploration?) lose strength or even be nullified past certain thresholds.
Could also help the other way around, being caught without a transponder with someone already hostile shouldn't make the faction curse your bloodline.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2024, 07:40:42 AM by Scorpixel »
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Bungee_man

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2024, 12:14:18 PM »

If you have high reputation with a faction they can send envoys to ask you nicely first. Then the actual crisis happens when you refuse. You could even have a story point option to use your connections within the faction to lower the strength of the crisis (it's probably too much to ask to prevent it outright). If a faction doesn't like you, then you get no warning and no story point options.

I think this fits well - crises are going to happen either way, because they represent conflicts of interest that need a hard resolution of some kind, but they might happen slower and more politely if you're on good terms with a given faction. Just to clarify on your earlier sentences, this would only slow growth of a crisis with a maxed out friendly faction by half - nothing would by bypassed; the idea is to integrate the two mechanics believably and justify the discrepancy to new players.



This would need the player's ability to accumulate reputation to be curtailed significantly and/or reputation degrading over time.
Currently it is trivially easy to get 100/100 rep with all major factions without even trying - I've done this accidentally many times just paying bills with bounties.

Having reputation be more detailed in general and reflect the player's 'favorite' factions is also nice, but crises generally show up around midgame, when the player isn't usually at 100/100 with everyone yet.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2024, 12:17:02 PM by Bungee_man »
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Darloth

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2024, 03:37:57 PM »

Usually is far from always, though.  In the run I did before last, I commissioned with the Persean League at game start, built them up to 100, and then plopped a colony, and kept doing Persean League missions and things.  I had in fact -planned- to join the league... and then suddenly I don't get a polite "oh, your colony is large now, you can finally join us!" I get a blockade, angry sounding messages/hostile fleets, and they're charging a 20% -gross- income tax (my colonies would have been making negative profit with this)?!  My disappointment was immeasurable, and I dropped the commission and blew up their stuff, which, honestly, doesn't say good things about me as a budding trade partner but come on, no way of negotiating anything better without at least -some- form of combat was a bit much.

It's certainly a thing that can happen, and almost acts as a weird pseudo-punishment for a player waiting a little longer or being extra prepared.  Sure they have more intrinsic options to deal with the crisis because of their own preparations, but it just -feels- weird that the factions don't acknowledge any of the stuff you've done for them, potentially a lot, at that point.  Even if it's just some additional dialogue about how they're under orders, or nobody gets exceptions from the AI core inspectorate (even though people clearly do, sometimes, with limitations)... That's why I agree that none of these should outright avoid crises, but they should slow them, make them more polite, and potentially grant easier access to non-combat resolutions.
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Bungee_man

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2024, 08:48:36 PM »

It's certainly a thing that can happen, and almost acts as a weird pseudo-punishment for a player waiting a little longer or being extra prepared.  Sure they have more intrinsic options to deal with the crisis because of their own preparations, but it just -feels- weird that the factions don't acknowledge any of the stuff you've done for them, potentially a lot, at that point.  Even if it's just some additional dialogue about how they're under orders, or nobody gets exceptions from the AI core inspectorate (even though people clearly do, sometimes, with limitations)... That's why I agree that none of these should outright avoid crises, but they should slow them, make them more polite, and potentially grant easier access to non-combat resolutions.

Sounds right to me. Slower crisis growth on the main screen (faster, if the player is hostile), and a bit friendlier dialogue when the crisis itself is encountered. As a stretch, making the peaceful resolution more seamless, or having the intermediate fleets behave a bit less deleteriously would further sell it.
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Vind

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Re: Dovetail Reputation and Colony Crisis
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2024, 12:59:09 AM »

Old reputation reward with access to faction comm relays was fine. Flying all around the core just to collect different mission offerings is a boring activity.
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