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[Princess of Evil]

The issue, imo, is perception. People are too used to fleets that endlessly kite an infinite amount of foes. In real game, where you can easily pick enemy fleets off one by one, shield shunt is pretty useful in a fleet that chews through a reasonably sized enemy fleet (ie a single one) so fast that armor damage only matters on the campaign level.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

Even if it was true, why would I stick with armor and only have to deal with it on the campaign map when I can pick shields and not deal with it at all? It's not like lowtech ships get you something in return. Sure you can use shunt and get a bit more dissipation, but their dissipation is lower to begin with, so they really only break even. And then they're slower, less maneouverable and burn more fuel.

It's like Hardened Shields and Heavy Armor. Hardened Shields works equally well on every ship with no downside, while heavy armor beneftis smaller ships(which need it the most) less and has a downside to boot if S-modded in(and it costs significantly more OP too so you definitely want to S-mod it in) Just... why bother? Sure, kinetics are great but you can get these on midline ships that don't have to pay for it with... everything.

[Princess of Evil]

Lowtech ships are more DPS dense and lowtech guns are a lot more flux efficient. And armor is non-linear, so it's a lot more difficult to understand than raw 15% of HS.

[Farya]

Actually how OP would it be to turn Shield Shunt into a hullmod that basically replaces shields with makeshift damper field instead, with normally shieldless ships(but not phased ones) able to mount it at increased cost? It won't be as good as something present on ships that got one by default, but still something useful to reduce damage from torpedo or something else powerful.

[Princess of Evil]

There's no API for it but it's not entirely impossible.

[FooF]

I admit I haven't played with it in a while in a long campaign, but what's the issue with shield shunt that needs to be fixed? As far as I knew there were endgame capable builds that can fight ordos using all the heavily armored bricks, and I think I did a runthrough this time around with it. Might have been last version though, sorry.

It's just an all or nothing strategy fleet-wise: the shieldless ships WILL charge straight in firing all guns thanks to the AI changes to 0 shield, and will dish out more firepower right up until they explode. So the rest of the fleet has to either support that or at least keep up. If the battle looks like its become attritional, with the enemy able to vent their shield damage, either slap on a full assault order and a whole lot of eliminates if you think your ships can win or a full retreat.

From a design perspective, I don't think shield shunt should be good on anything but the most heavily armored ships.

My issue is that the trade isn't worth it, even on the heaviest armored ships. Sacrificing a shield that can eat a torpedo or hold off beams indefinitely for what amounts to 20% more survivability under the best conditions isn't a good exchange. I've argued in other threads the most glaring flaw in Shield Shunted ships is the fact a Kite with a Reaper can defeat the armor of a Shield Shunted Onslaught 30 seconds into the fight and now the ship is gimped the rest of the battle. While this is true of a shielded Onslaught to some degree, shields will protect hull but a shield shunted ship no longer has that option. Shield Shunt just needs a way to mitigate extreme damage.

With the RMB not being used on shield-shunted ships, I think there is opportunity for some sort of "shield flicker" like a temporary Damper Shield. Only lasts like 1 second but it reduces damage by like half. 5 second cooldown. So if you see that rocket barrage come in, you flicker the damper field to absorb the worst of it, and let the armor take the rest. Same with a double Hellbore shot from a Dominator. Unlike Damper Field, it doesn't stop the guns from firing. I don't think there's anything that can be done about beams (maybe Shield Shunt passively reduces all beam damage by 1/3) but for the biggest hits, with a little bit of twitch reflexes, you can mitigate some of it.

[Serenitis]

A way to approach removing shields without turning it into a twitch mini-game could be:
Re-use part of the effect from the old Damage Control skill to give a ship with Shield Shunt an upper bound on the amount of damage it can recieve in a single hit.

Not much use against beams, but that might just be the tradeoff you're supposed to make.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Actually how OP would it be to turn Shield Shunt into a hullmod that basically replaces shields with makeshift damper field instead, with normally shieldless ships(but not phased ones) able to mount it at increased cost? It won't be as good as something present on ships that got one by default, but still something useful to reduce damage from torpedo or something else powerful.

Actually, a pretty neat idea. It would make the ship operate similar to the Vanguard. You would have to remove the bonus armor from the hullmod, but it could work.

Generally you want shield shunt on ships that struggle with flux. Damper field is perfect for those ships because it both keeps the ship safe and allows it to dissipate during the active window. Also, the op cost would have to scale up dramatically for larger ships. A damper field on the onslaught or legion has the potential to be a much bigger game-changer than a damper field lasher.

[Farya]

Actually, a pretty neat idea. It would make the ship operate similar to the Vanguard. You would have to remove the bonus armor from the hullmod, but it could work.

Generally you want shield shunt on ships that struggle with flux. Damper field is perfect for those ships because it both keeps the ship safe and allows it to dissipate during the active window. Also, the op cost would have to scale up dramatically for larger ships. A damper field on the onslaught or legion has the potential to be a much bigger game-changer than a damper field lasher.

Many hullmods scale in price with hull size, so that's perfectly reasonable. But it should probably also have a penalty when s-modded then similar to heavy armor. OR it could instead only reach full potential when s-modded, so it's something you have to commit to.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

Actually how OP would it be to turn Shield Shunt into a hullmod that basically replaces shields with makeshift damper field instead, with normally shieldless ships(but not phased ones) able to mount it at increased cost? It won't be as good as something present on ships that got one by default, but still something useful to reduce damage from torpedo or something else powerful.

Not at all, and really not worth it. If you want to see why, run a shield shunt Mora. The AI spams Damper Field over every tiny amount of incoming HE or EMP. It doesn't have the system when it needs it, and it doesn't need the flux dissipation that DF offers as it has no shield.

[Princess of Evil]

That's mostly because Mora is excessively undergunned for a shunt build (and is slightly underarmored to start ignoring minor damage iirc).

[Farya]

That's mostly because Mora is excessively undergunned for a shunt build (and is slightly underarmored to start ignoring minor damage iirc).

Correct. Undergunned carrier is not exactly a good example here as it has neither good amount for guns to outdakka enemies or any good point defenses to deal with moderate amount of missiles (unlike for example Onslaught with Devastators and flaks). But perhaps some modded ships would? I remember Luddic Enchancement has Lector destroyer with damper field for defenses.

[Megas]

Another problem with today's Shield Shunt is no additional EMP resistance, which means player must get Resistant Flux Conduits and maybe Polarized Armor too or else lose weapons and engines the moment anything with significant EMP shows up.  Some releases had Shield Shunt give EMP resistance too, but then it was removed.  It needs that back.

[Nettle]

Another problem with today's Shield Shunt is no additional EMP resistance, which means player must get Resistant Flux Conduits and maybe Polarized Armor too or else lose weapons and engines the moment anything with significant EMP shows up.  Some releases had Shield Shunt give EMP resistance too, but then it was removed.  It needs that back.

The thing is, PA gives you EMP resistance based on your hard flux, and you can't get it without a shield.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

Another problem with today's Shield Shunt is no additional EMP resistance, which means player must get Resistant Flux Conduits and maybe Polarized Armor too or else lose weapons and engines the moment anything with significant EMP shows up.

Wait, I just realized... Polarized Armor increases armor/EMP resistance the LOWER your hard flux, right?