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Author Topic: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?  (Read 3220 times)

dmc9014

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2024, 07:51:45 PM »

good to know about nex being a cause of the endless fleets. thank you all for that info.
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Ruddygreat

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2024, 01:44:16 AM »

Resolution is always possible. Maybe not if you mod your game but that's not the dev's fault.
The game straight up tells you how you can get the other side to stop being a pain. You can pay tribute to the local pirate boss, same for the path. PL and heg are both resolved in the same way, joining the league. Diktat is stealing their core. For tri-tach, you can raid them to death. For church you just talk to their leader and tell them to stop. And all of these (except tri-tach) are not including the major crisis solution which is combat.

Just taking a moment to point out that (with the exception of the TT suggestion) none of these alternate solutions actually resolve the crisis, they're all the "bad" deals that you can take to prevent the crisis from happening & give yourself more time to prepare.
The crises can only be properly resolved for a reward by fighting the fleets that gets sent at you once the meter fills up.

Killer of Fate

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2024, 12:41:07 PM »

im not convinced.
the concept sounds cool but every game feels the same. first its pirates, then its the path. the design poorly communicates what the player needs to do. resolution isnt always possible. and when it snowballs its WAY over the top. this single feature dominates the game and not in a good way.
Resolution is always possible. Maybe not if you mod your game but that's not the dev's fault.
The game straight up tells you how you can get the other side to stop being a pain. You can pay tribute to the local pirate boss, same for the path. PL and heg are both resolved in the same way, joining the league. Diktat is stealing their core. For tri-tach, you can raid them to death. For church you just talk to their leader and tell them to stop. And all of these (except tri-tach) are not including the major crisis solution which is combat.
a veteran of the game explaining a new player how to enjoy it is the antithesis of good game design tbh. If an individual like this, which there are many of, say the crisis system in its current form is too dominating, they are probably right. We are the ones with a bias. And we should probably try to understand their perspective more than enforcing our own.

I don't think that's an elitist thing, I'm far from a veteran and I didn't have any issues with the crisis system. So far anyway.

Most of the problems mentioned by OP seem to be largely self-inflicted.
You don't need colonies to "fund exploration", especially if you're running Nex and/or some exploration-focused mods. I'd argue that early colonies are more of a drain on resources and later on there's not much to spend that surplus on except more colony stuff. If you're focused on exploring you can just find most of the things you'd have to spend money on if you stayed home.
The various fleets roaming your system are usually only an issue if you do stay home. Otherwise pirates might put a bit of a dent on your profit margins but it doesn't stop you from progressing. As for the actual crisis attacks, they can certainly be a problem the first time you run into them but on subsequent playthroughs you know what to expect and can prepare. Or you simply delay colonies until your fleet can handle whatever is thrown at you.

That said, I agree that crisis fleets not being tied to the actual strength of each faction can feel pretty silly. I also wouldn't be opposed to an option to simply turn the whole mechanic off for players that want their colonies to stay perfectly safe and pristine at all times while they're out in the far reaches of space.
tbh, i just don't like the turn the game is taking. Too many scripted sequences can take away from the player's experience by forcing them onto the same path over and over. The best thing about Starsector was building up your empire. And the vague nature of NPCs made it so that every experience could have been interpreted differently. With the lore of factions being so ominous that everyone could think about them a totally different thing based on stuff like their patrol dialogue, planet descriptions and music. Music being the most important and one of the more beautiful parts of Starsector. Even if it's so short. And the crisis as well as recently added missions are kinda the antithesis of that. Why? Well, I need to explain if I already started. The academy quest is great, but it's also really optional. The way to encounter the academy is to interact with a specific event in a bar, talk with a fleet going somewhere, finding a thing on a planet and then bringing it to the academy, and then choosing to interact with whoever is in there. Also being able not to. Whereas the missions added recently work kinda differently. The Sindrian Diktat mission straight up attacks you in a bar. The LC's mission sneaks onto your selection menu by putting the option to go to a shrine where the bar should be... This feels like something Jehovah's witnesses would do. And the crisis system literally forces you into a series of missions. These things might feel entertaining at first for the first time playing the game and encountering them. But Starsector is a lot about replay value, climbing up, making a specific build to a specific fleet, winning... Gambling your savings. And going forward... Scripted sequences may ruin that experience. Therefore it was good that the Academy quest was so... To some extent hidden. Like in Dark Souls. And this is why imo it's bad for the Crisis to work the way it does now.

On the other hand, new players' frustrations are kinda different to mine. The thing about crisis is that it definitely feels like a threat worthy of an experienced player. But the game does not prepare you enough to said threat. Therefore it should be entirely optional of when that threat appears. And the player should have the option of encountering it the moment they feel comfortable with it. Otherwise it will just squash them, because the game's mechanics are exceptionally convoluted. And on top of that the game isn't like Dark Souls. If you die, you reload the save. But it's not like you can git gud. Most of the things in the game are about just completely shifting how your fleet is and what kind of skills you picked. So, it feels less like a skill check and more like a knowledge test. Therefore the appearance of sudden challenges isn't as interesting. And the game feels way more enjoyable when it just gives you... Options.

I feel like the crisis should be averted. And the old system of expeditions should be brought back, but toned down significantly. So that raids and expedition fleets are far more rare. And the crisis events should be reworked into their own missions. And they along the current Sindrian Diktat and LC one should be made as hidden as the academy quest. And the player should only be interacting with said quests if they choose to. Not because someone beat them up in a bar. And then teleported to Volturn the next day.

The only exception to this should be the Hegemony crisis. If the player actively chooses to use AI, it's their own fault they got the attention of the Hegemony. LC, Sindrian, PL, TT crisis however feel kinda forced... And I wish these factions were restored to their old state in which they seemed too busy doing their own shady business to notice you. With the exception of an occasional rogue political cell coming all the way to your world to make you feel miserable for no particular reason.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2024, 12:42:56 PM by Killer of Fate »
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Phenir

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2024, 12:58:47 PM »

And the crisis system literally forces you into a series of missions.
Only if you choose to interact with the colony system. Same goes with the quests. Nothing forces you to do them. You get introduced to them (just like the academy line which you seem to adore) and then it's up to you to follow through. They don't have timers or even unique rewards unlike the academy which awards gate travel so you are definitely going to do that quest every playthrough. That eventide party will go on forever if you let it.

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TT crisis

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rogue political cell coming all the way to your world to make you feel miserable for no particular reason.
Basically what the TT crisis is. Some TT execs thought they could get a promotion out of forcing you out of the market and it turned out to be a really dumb idea.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2024, 01:16:19 PM »

And the crisis system literally forces you into a series of missions.
Only if you choose to interact with the colony system. Same goes with the quests. Nothing forces you to do them. You get introduced to them (just like the academy line which you seem to adore) and then it's up to you to follow through. They don't have timers or even unique rewards unlike the academy which awards gate travel so you are definitely going to do that quest every playthrough. That eventide party will go on forever if you let it.

Quote
TT crisis

Quote
rogue political cell coming all the way to your world to make you feel miserable for no particular reason.
Basically what the TT crisis is. Some TT execs thought they could get a promotion out of forcing you out of the market and it turned out to be a really dumb idea.
the way how the Academy quest works is that you can easily pretend that it simply does not exist. It doesn't even affect the world in that much of an extreme extent. Like the Luddic Church crisis implying that a visible chunk of the Luddic Church population is trying to escape towards outer colonies because living on Gilead and Tartessus is just that awful.

The TT crisis working the way it does now is understandable, I suppose. But it feels weird that the entirety of TT nation would negotiate a deal with you. The colonies to me always felt somewhat like a non-canonical addition to the game. The implication that the player is actually... Canonically most likely the most dangerous person in the entire Persean Sector feels lore-breaking. Especially considering we are only limited to a single fleet at a time. And the lore-friendly solution to this problem would be to simply never acknowledge the infinite power the main character holds. Which is what made expeditions what they were. It didn't matter how many of them we killed. They were infinite. Because the world we existed in wasn't the same one we were playing. Those were two separate dimensions. One of them existing for the sake of storytelling, the other for the sake of the game. But now that feels like no longer the case. And the Commander Shephard syndrome is currently corrupting the beauty of the game's story. Which focused on normal people doing normal things. Because they are now all eclipsed by yours truly. Us. The only one who exists outside the bounds of the world they live in.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2024, 01:29:52 PM »

im not convinced.
the concept sounds cool but every game feels the same. first its pirates, then its the path. the design poorly communicates what the player needs to do. resolution isnt always possible. and when it snowballs its WAY over the top. this single feature dominates the game and not in a good way.
Resolution is always possible. Maybe not if you mod your game but that's not the dev's fault.
The game straight up tells you how you can get the other side to stop being a pain. You can pay tribute to the local pirate boss, same for the path. PL and heg are both resolved in the same way, joining the league. Diktat is stealing their core. For tri-tach, you can raid them to death. For church you just talk to their leader and tell them to stop. And all of these (except tri-tach) are not including the major crisis solution which is combat.
a veteran of the game explaining a new player how to enjoy it is the antithesis of good game design tbh. If an individual like this, which there are many of, say the crisis system in its current form is too dominating, they are probably right. We are the ones with a bias. And we should probably try to understand their perspective more than enforcing our own.

I don't think that's an elitist thing, I'm far from a veteran and I didn't have any issues with the crisis system. So far anyway.

Most of the problems mentioned by OP seem to be largely self-inflicted.
You don't need colonies to "fund exploration", especially if you're running Nex and/or some exploration-focused mods. I'd argue that early colonies are more of a drain on resources and later on there's not much to spend that surplus on except more colony stuff. If you're focused on exploring you can just find most of the things you'd have to spend money on if you stayed home.
The various fleets roaming your system are usually only an issue if you do stay home. Otherwise pirates might put a bit of a dent on your profit margins but it doesn't stop you from progressing. As for the actual crisis attacks, they can certainly be a problem the first time you run into them but on subsequent playthroughs you know what to expect and can prepare. Or you simply delay colonies until your fleet can handle whatever is thrown at you.

That said, I agree that crisis fleets not being tied to the actual strength of each faction can feel pretty silly. I also wouldn't be opposed to an option to simply turn the whole mechanic off for players that want their colonies to stay perfectly safe and pristine at all times while they're out in the far reaches of space.
tbh, i just don't like the turn the game is taking. Too many scripted sequences can take away from the player's experience by forcing them onto the same path over and over. The best thing about Starsector was building up your empire. And the vague nature of NPCs made it so that every experience could have been interpreted differently. With the lore of factions being so ominous that everyone could think about them a totally different thing based on stuff like their patrol dialogue, planet descriptions and music. Music being the most important and one of the more beautiful parts of Starsector. Even if it's so short. And the crisis as well as recently added missions are kinda the antithesis of that. Why? Well, I need to explain if I already started. The academy quest is great, but it's also really optional. The way to encounter the academy is to interact with a specific event in a bar, talk with a fleet going somewhere, finding a thing on a planet and then bringing it to the academy, and then choosing to interact with whoever is in there. Also being able not to. Whereas the missions added recently work kinda differently. The Sindrian Diktat mission straight up attacks you in a bar. The LC's mission sneaks onto your selection menu by putting the option to go to a shrine where the bar should be... This feels like something Jehovah's witnesses would do. And the crisis system literally forces you into a series of missions. These things might feel entertaining at first for the first time playing the game and encountering them. But Starsector is a lot about replay value, climbing up, making a specific build to a specific fleet, winning... Gambling your savings. And going forward... Scripted sequences may ruin that experience. Therefore it was good that the Academy quest was so... To some extent hidden. Like in Dark Souls. And this is why imo it's bad for the Crisis to work the way it does now.

On the other hand, new players' frustrations are kinda different to mine. The thing about crisis is that it definitely feels like a threat worthy of an experienced player. But the game does not prepare you enough to said threat. Therefore it should be entirely optional of when that threat appears. And the player should have the option of encountering it the moment they feel comfortable with it. Otherwise it will just squash them, because the game's mechanics are exceptionally convoluted. And on top of that the game isn't like Dark Souls. If you die, you reload the save. But it's not like you can git gud. Most of the things in the game are about just completely shifting how your fleet is and what kind of skills you picked. So, it feels less like a skill check and more like a knowledge test. Therefore the appearance of sudden challenges isn't as interesting. And the game feels way more enjoyable when it just gives you... Options.

I feel like the crisis should be averted. And the old system of expeditions should be brought back, but toned down significantly. So that raids and expedition fleets are far more rare. And the crisis events should be reworked into their own missions. And they along the current Sindrian Diktat and LC one should be made as hidden as the academy quest. And the player should only be interacting with said quests if they choose to. Not because someone beat them up in a bar. And then teleported to Volturn the next day.

The only exception to this should be the Hegemony crisis. If the player actively chooses to use AI, it's their own fault they got the attention of the Hegemony. LC, Sindrian, PL, TT crisis however feel kinda forced... And I wish these factions were restored to their old state in which they seemed too busy doing their own shady business to notice you. With the exception of an occasional rogue political cell coming all the way to your world to make you feel miserable for no particular reason.

Yeah, we seem to have very different preferences when it comes to content and how it is delivered.
I only return to this game every few versions because after a few playthroughs I feel I've done everything there is to do and it gets stale. I certainly wouldn't be interested in yet another exploration run where I just leisurely travel around, or yet another round of colony building without any pressure, while I grow to be the dominant power of the whole sector. I've done all that in previous versions.
From a lore perspective I also don't really see how all factions except the Hegemony should just leave you be. Considering the state of the sector you quickly grow into a comparative powerhouse once you start building colonies, so I'd expect them to be very worried and try to do something about it.

As I said, I wouldn't mind the option to turn crisis or other scripted interactions off, but your description of an ideal state sounds like the gameplay from several versions ago and if it was returned to that as the default I'd probably stop playing altogether.
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Phenir

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2024, 01:45:47 PM »

the way how the Academy quest works is that you can easily pretend that it simply does not exist. It doesn't even affect the world in that much of an extreme extent. Like the Luddic Church crisis implying that a visible chunk of the Luddic Church population is trying to escape towards outer colonies because living on Gilead and Tartessus is just that awful.
I was comparing to the other quests, not the crises. Other quests can give rewards but those rewards don't actually need the quest as you can just stumble upon them while exploring. Academy on the other hand gives you something you absolutely cannot get anywhere else. You must do the entire chain for gate travel, you can't just fly up to the gate and put in the konami code (that you learned while exploring) or something and unlock gate travel. You will be doing this quest every playthrough you want that reward on, which is probably all of them. So this:
The academy quest is great, but it's also really optional.
doesn't really work.
Colony crises are only "forced" if you want what colonies provide, which is primarily money and ship/weapon production. But money can be gotten in other ways. Bounties, trading, commissions, basically everything the player does makes money as long as they do it well. And production can be gotten through contacts. Complaining about being forced to do crises is like complaining about having to do Usurpers for an executor. Maybe next playthrough, don't go into colonies. Instead, get some contacts so you have high paying bounties and can get nanoforge access occasionally. Now you have everything colonies give without the crises.
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dmc9014

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2024, 06:50:29 PM »

phenir, don't you think proposing a solution to not engage with one of the largest most complex and defining systems within the game to avoid ONE particular feature is kinda counter productive?

i honestly dont get why some people so vigorously defend it rather than engage in a debate of how it could be improved. you have to admit its a very divisive feature that some folks really don't like.

i tend to agree with killer of fate, but ill put my own spin on it. if you choose to engage with all the game has to offer, the crisis system utterly dominates how that game will progress. and its largely the same every time. it feels so contrived and arbitrary.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2024, 10:21:36 PM »

phenir, don't you think proposing a solution to not engage with one of the largest most complex and defining systems within the game to avoid ONE particular feature is kinda counter productive?

i honestly dont get why some people so vigorously defend it rather than engage in a debate of how it could be improved. you have to admit its a very divisive feature that some folks really don't like.

i tend to agree with killer of fate, but ill put my own spin on it. if you choose to engage with all the game has to offer, the crisis system utterly dominates how that game will progress. and its largely the same every time. it feels so contrived and arbitrary.

I'd argue that the academy questline dominates playthroughs a lot more. That one takes quite a bit of time and effort on every run, no matter which direction you go, cause gate travel is always a necessity. It always plays out exactly the same too. In contrast, the crisis system only takes some preparation and an occassional intervention once you know what you're doing.

As for improvements, for those of us that enjoy the feature toning it down wouldn't improve anything. The only possibility I see is an option to turn it off, either in the base game or through an overhaul mod. Maybe you could add a quest to delay it indefinitely if you're not sure if you want to engage with it at the beginning of a playthrough.
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Phenir

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2024, 06:45:25 AM »

phenir, don't you think proposing a solution to not engage with one of the largest most complex and defining systems within the game to avoid ONE particular feature is kinda counter productive?

i honestly dont get why some people so vigorously defend it rather than engage in a debate of how it could be improved. you have to admit its a very divisive feature that some folks really don't like.
Colonies are not defining of starsector lmao. The combat is. This isn't a 4x game. If I'd said just don't do combat, you'd have a point (ironically, saying not to engage with colonies almost is saying don't do combat since that is their intended purpose, to bring the player more varied combat). Do you really mean to tell me you play starsector for the colony gameplay?

Hmm, let's see. You provided suggestions, I said why your suggestions don't work, mostly because they are already present.  You say it dominates the game, I say you barely have to engage with it, like once per hour, or can choose not to at all. Sorry, I'm not your yes man, but then it wouldn't be a debate if all you got was agreement now would it? It turns out when you have an opinion, other people can have a differing opinion.

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if you choose to engage with all the game has to offer, the crisis system utterly dominates how that game will progress. and its largely the same every time.
This is a meaningless statement. Of course if you do all the content then you... do all the content. What did you think would happen? This applies to everything the game offers. Every quest goes the same way every time but where are the threads demanding random endings? Every game, remnants have the same 8 ships. To the point where people showed off how well they can optimize killing them. Hegemony always controls Chicomoztec, when's TT's turn at being the big pop center? You see how ridiculous it sounds to complain that when you do X content, you get exactly what you asked for? This isn't a roguelike.

My problem with threads like this one is how overblown they make it. They complain about babysitting when the system rarely demands their attention and for a fraction of their total playtime. They complain about how big and scary the fleets are when they don't even have to fight them if they'd just read. They complain about lore and forget that this is a game, not a book. They don't even try to understand the system and preemptively demand it changed to suit them. NO. You are the player, you are being challenged, you play the game and overcome it.

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Killer of Fate

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2024, 10:33:59 AM »

tbh I played 90% of Starsector without doing the Academy quest. Ever. Only recently I completed it. And I must say I enjoyed for the story it offered. And I would probably enjoy it less if it was forced onto me every time I started a new playthrough. Which I did several of.

Which is the opposite of how I feel about the Usurpers and the Pilgrim's Path. But I already explained why.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2024, 12:22:24 PM by Killer of Fate »
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dmc9014

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2024, 03:43:48 PM »

no sense continuing this. have a good day gentlemen. o7
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Guilty

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2024, 07:09:47 AM »

I learned how to deal with CC so it doesent bother me that much. But TBH i would really like to see months / years pause before certain faction has a PROBLEM with everything that you do.

It seems to me quite dumb that at EXACTLY same moment you created a colony or a industry, CC starts.

add some time in between action and reaction PLEASE !
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Thaago

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2024, 08:28:17 AM »

Isn't the time between action and reaction the bar, which starts at 0? In my latest run I blitzed 3 colonies down at once, with colony items as soon as their initial industries were built, and it still took months to a year for anything to happen.
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DownTheDrain

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Re: I would like to disable colony crisis, is it possible?
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2024, 08:39:31 AM »

Isn't the time between action and reaction the bar, which starts at 0? In my latest run I blitzed 3 colonies down at once, with colony items as soon as their initial industries were built, and it still took months to a year for anything to happen.

I suppose if he covered every new colony in AI cores he might get a quicker reaction.
It's what I've been doing in my last run to get the Hegemony to come fight me. The others usually don't generate much heat once the PL drops out.
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