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[Grievous69]

@Hiruma Kai
I'm also perfectly fine with it being buffed to the worth of a 20 DP ship. It's just that I've more often heard suggestions and arguments to make it cheaper, rather than buffing it directly. Actually Megas suggested multiple times a small OP increase, like 5 or 10. That would maybe be a nice little touch.

I honestly don't pay much attention to names like "light" or "fast", but it would be pretty weird to have a 25 DP light cruiser, or 15 DP heavy cruiser. Also Eagle is going to be 18 DP, not 15.

EDIT: @Foof
Universal mount idea is cool but isn't it even more similar to a Medusa then? I feel like such mounts on high tech ships make for samey builds, which isn't a big deal tbh since there's only so much to do with a high tech ship with only mediums and smalls. Hmmm it sounds fun to me but somehow feels wrong, not sure how to put it.

[Hiruma Kai]

As I'm in the camp that Fury seems to work Okay at 20 DP for me, I haven't been presented evidence that a buff is absolutely necessary.  However, something small on the scale of an OP bump like Grievous69 suggests or a universal mount addition like Foof suggests sounds reasonable to me and doesn't shake things up too much.  If the Medusa is getting a 5 OP bump at 12 DP, maybe the Fury should get a 10 OP bump at 20 DP.  A large buff like the Eagle got would be way too much I think.

If I remember correctly, I think the sentiment to make it cheaper comes from a statement by Alex that he really liked how the Fury was and didn't want to adjust how it flies, just it's balance point.  So my arguments may fall flat against "the Fury just feels right as is". 

[Draba]

If you're saying the Fury isn't worth 20 DP, then I'd advocate that it be buffed until it's worth 20 DP.  Dropping to 18-19 DP is another option, with or without buffs.  But I feel 15 DP is really too close to two other already existing ships with nearly the same doctrine and access to nearly the same weapons.  You can put a Medium missile (or two small missiles), a Heavy Blaster and an Ion Pulser on a Medusa, on a Hyperion, or on a Fury.

Don't have a strong opinion about Fury either way, just wanted to note that I don't feel the Hyperion is a very good comparison point for "standard" ships around ~15 DP.
Maintenance makes it clunky to fit, has ~frigate level durability with shields down, very limited loadout, up until now it basically needed SO to not leave half its power unused, ...
Medusa is still pretty close at 12 ofc.

[Alex]

Not even hammers:

LP manticore running around with SO, cyclone and double HMG

Improved reaper looks nastier, with officer skipping racks is an option and there'll still be OP to spare.
Squall damage going up and that were the 2 things that looked far out of line when first reading the notes.

I'd say racks are entirely unnecessary - the odds of it surviving long enough to use even the base Cyclone ammo seem low!

Is the lp manticore's system still the cannister flak? It would be interesting to change that to burn drive for maximum in your face torpedo strikes! Probably objectively worse in terms of performance but also terrifying stacked on top of SO.

Tempting! Basically the Pather Venture, though, and I don't want to keep hitting the same note. Maybe Fast Missile Racks could be fun, alongside more DP, hmm.

As I'm in the camp that Fury seems to work Okay at 20 DP for me, I haven't been presented evidence that a buff is absolutely necessary.  However, something small on the scale of an OP bump like Grievous69 suggests or a universal mount addition like Foof suggests sounds reasonable to me and doesn't shake things up too much.  If the Medusa is getting a 5 OP bump at 12 DP, maybe the Fury should get a 10 OP bump at 20 DP.  A large buff like the Eagle got would be way too much I think.

Would you mind sharing a good build or two?

[Amoebka]

Is the lp manticore's system still the cannister flak? It would be interesting to change that to burn drive for maximum in your face torpedo strikes! Probably objectively worse in terms of performance but also terrifying stacked on top of SO.

Colossus already has both the hammer barrage and the burn drive.

[Doctorhealsgood]

Shield shunt is very cheap so it's on a fairly short list of hullmods whose build-in effect is quite high (but still aligns with the base effect, either in stats or at least in spirit.)

I see. Although the issue is less about the bonus and more about that current shield shunt is weaker than it probably should (No shield for 15% armor feels eeeeeh) but then when you S-Mod it it jumps to 30% and that is way better. So there is this situation where shield shunt is either too weak to consider or now a viable choice at a premium.
In short in the current state shield shunt more or less comes with a tax for it to work at a level that is worth the mechanical shift that it comes with.
Or something like that. I am not good at words.

Well that aside can i pry you about the s-mod effects of converted hangar and defensive targeting array?

[Thog]

Hello, is this the temp agency? Excellent. I need to hire 1000 people to update a ... uh ... sizable modlist. Yes, I'll hold. :|

[liam10000888]

super excited! been chomping at the bitt for this update ever sense the april blog post on the website about new ludite lore!

[Amoebka]

been chomping at the bitt for this update ever sense the april

Good news, you can keep doing that for another 3-12 months 

[Slyve]

I can't wait to continue the main story line. Still amazing just how good the writing is in Starsector.
There are LOADS of open world (or open galaxy, if you will) games that excel at the open thing and games, that have absolutely incredible story lines.

Starsector is the only game that i know of, that can pull both of those off this brilliantly.

I gotta emphasize the writing again. It keeps you hooked once you get into it. Especially with all the teasers along the way.

Pretty sure the moment this update releases, I'm gotta get a spontaneos case of... something and unfortunately have to take a week off of work.

[memeextremist]

YAY! new ships and fixes!

[pairedeciseaux]

More hammers? Hammer time!

Looking forward to play with all of this.

Regarding the Fury tangent discussion,

Spoiler

Sabot-based build for my AI-controlled Fury, in current campaign:

1 Heavy Blaster
2 Sabot SRP Pods
4 PD Lasers
1 Mining Laser
(one small energy slot empty)

Pick hullmods among:

Expanded Missile Racks
Integrated Targeting Unit
Reinforce Bulkheads
Shield Conversion - Front

When you build in the first 3 hullmods (EMR + ITU + RB are worth 50 OP) and pay 10 OP for the last one you can do:

30 Capacitors
30 Vents

Depending on officer, you obtain a cruiser-sized brawler providing great to amazing performance. Even officer-less, Fury is a solid choice. I mean... fairly high speed, sustained fire with Heavy Blaster, good shield, kinetic burst with Sabots.

In the past, I have also used Fury without missile (or with a lower amount than in the build above) and was satisfied. Ion Pulser and IR Pulser Lasers are useful here.

I do like the suggestion to add some OP: improved incentive to fill all weapon slots. But truth be told, top priority on this ship is to spend OP on flux stats to support blaster and shield, the rest is icing on the cake.

Also, change the medium missile hardpoint into a synergy one? Like the existing right-side medium turret. It would provide more flexibility for those who want to build a missile-less Fury, like we can on Aurora. Although, sure, medium missile hardpoint might be a defining trait common with Shrike that needs so stay.

[close]

You can't touch this.

[Hiruma Kai]

Would you mind sharing a good build or two?

Vanshilar's got some data and a build in a couple threads, one is:
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=25686.msg383303#msg383303
That compares some kill times of mono cruiser fleets + player Onslaught vs double Ordo.
I thought he did a 15 DP vs 20 DP comparison as well against Ordos but can't find it.  I think the variation he used for that was something like:
1 Heavy Blaster
2 Sabot Pods (linked)
2 IR Pulse Laser
Xyphos
Converted Hangar
Expanded Missile Racks (s-mod)
Integrated Targeting Unit (s-mod)
Hardened Shield (s-mod)
Shield Conversion -Front
Solar Shielding
10 Vents
11 Caps

Individual builds can vary based on what you're trying to do (player pilot, AI, early game first cruiser, late game mono-cruiser fleet, s-mods available or no, skills available or no).

I generally like a Heavy Blaster + Ion Pulsar + Sabot as the primary loadout, although I've also used a Converted Hangar + Xyphos + Heavy Blaster + double missile pods of some flavor with s-mods.  Hullmods will depend on s-mods or not as well.  But some mixture of Front Shields, ITU, Expanded Missile Racks, and Hardened Shields typically.  Converted Hangar if Xyphos.  Add in ion cannons (if no other source of ion damage), point defense, or IR pulse lasers as needed, although typically I only throw on a 2 or 3 small weapons.  Bump vents as needed to match needs (or max), and the rest into capacitors.

Assuming unskilled, no s-mods, AI ship and staying away from Safety Overrides and Converted Hangar, I'd probably go something like:
1 Heavy Blaster (front energy mount)
1 Ion Pulser (synergy mount)
1 Sabot Pod
1 Burst PD or 2 Beam PD
Integrated Targeting Unit
Shield Conversion
30 Caps
24-25 vents

[SapphireSage]

What would your current thoughts be on reducing the OP on the Legion XIV back to what it currently is? I ask because currently, though this is subject to change depending on the new caps, the Legion XIV is considered one of the stronger capitals largely because, unlike its base counterpart, its a capable long range support with its two large missiles and 4 fighter bays while also capable of being a strong front-liner with its tougher armor and 5 medium ballistics for only 40 DP and my main concern is that between the increased number and types of missiles and the +40 OP the XIV Legion has the potential to become even more oppressive compared to its peers. I'd understand if you'd not want to due to Legion XIV's rarity, because its only available to the player, and because it would be weird to not have XIV be a straight upgrade to its non-XIV version, but to that third I'd argue that its weird that the weapon mounts are different compared to its base version in the first place and the lower OP could just be the tradeoff of the conversion to Large missiles over ballistics from base.

[Dri]

Why not try the Legion with its buffs instead of calling for nerfs before it even out the door? The Legion is a Hegemony ship is it not? It and the Onslaught need to stand tall as two big reasons why the Hegemony is still in power.