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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: A Tale of Two Tech Levels  (Read 34954 times)

CrashToDesktop

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #255 on: June 14, 2021, 01:52:12 PM »

I've just noticed that the Eradicator is the return of the ISS Slightly Lopsided Isosceles Triangle!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2021, 10:29:15 PM by The Soldier »
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Alexis Incarnadine

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #256 on: June 24, 2021, 02:04:57 PM »

Would it be a stupid question to ask when these will be implemented in the game, or are they already present?
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EclipseRanger

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #257 on: June 25, 2021, 05:54:30 AM »

Would it be a stupid question to ask when these will be implemented in the game, or are they already present?

They are not implemented as of now.Judging by when update 9.1 got its 9.1a 6 months later,we could also assume that we' ll get 9.5a on September or so.
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xenoargh

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #258 on: June 26, 2021, 02:34:26 PM »

My first reaction to the Burn Drive change:  "Hey, that's what I did in Vacuum, like, five years ago, for roughly the same reasons", lol
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Twilight Sentinel

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #259 on: June 26, 2021, 11:22:42 PM »

Pirates getting another cruiser will be very good indeed.  The fleets of ventures take forever to go through.  For my own sanity's sake I set a 75% modifier on their appearance rate for pirates.
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Brainwright

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #260 on: July 03, 2021, 01:40:00 PM »

The best thing for lowtech ships has always been taking advantage of their efficiency.  Ideally, you would form the bulk of your fleet with low tech and deploy a wing of faster strike craft to inflict actual casualties on the opponent and retreat.  Rinse and repeat until their CR is nothing.

As it stands, that methodology is impossible, largely because the limited engagement mechanic favors npc fleets.

A 100% low tech fleet probably shouldn’t be viable, but they also shouldn’t be hobbled.  Drawn out engagements are where that balance lies.

And this will probably be faster for the player, too, as moving in aggressively and trimming down the opposing fleet until it is at clean engagement level before the npc can bring their entire fleet to bear is less of a slog than chewing through the entire fleet.
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Bummelei

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #261 on: September 12, 2021, 08:42:49 AM »

I personally think that "Termination Sequence" is a bad idea.

For now, we have 2 high end frigates: Scarab which have high amount of firepower, and Tempest which trades some of it for premium tier pd defense and lightning speed.
And you want to cut main strenght of Tempest in favor of very unreliable source of damage, which in reality going to do next to no impact.
From that point Scarab and even cheaper options would look much more apealing than Tempest (without current active system and pd, Tempest is going to be no better than Wolf)

Guess if you want to nerf\fix Tempest, it is better to buff powercrept frigates instead, like Monitor, or Centurion for example. Or maybe add some more premium-tier frigates to the game, like Vanguard (but in that case there gonna be more problems with in game balance so idk)

Interruption of a burn drive is good (long awaited if i can say), but isn't it going even better if burn drive won't disable shields for it's duration?

Concept of Vanguard is interesting, can't wait to see how it performs in reality.

And i have a question at last: will you make something with Venture? In current meta this ship is next to completely useless - complete lack of speed, range, firepower and op makes this ship abysmal in terms of anything, but being useless bullet sponge. Like... it's a cruiser but with firepower of a frigate, which sounds like a joke.
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Amoebka

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #262 on: September 21, 2021, 07:48:38 AM »

I wouldn't call 2 medium + 2 small missiles with FMR and 3 more medium weapon slots "frigate level firepower". Given how we are getting premium armor/hull tanking skills and the ability to reduce DP by up to 50%, spamming Ventures might become a very oppressive strat.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #263 on: September 21, 2021, 09:26:45 AM »

The main problem with venture is speed. The burn is so low, and the ship is also slow in combat. The flux stats are also destroyer level which I think is a better representation of firepower. The missiles probably give it overall light cruiser firepower for the beginning of the fight, but with terrible mobility, that doesn't really work if anything in the enemy fleet has significant firepower. No way to run and too weak to win. It's at best an early game bully, but has the campaign stats of a late game ship.
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Helldiver

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #264 on: September 21, 2021, 09:47:13 AM »

I'm fine with the Venture's combat performance, being an armed freighter and not a warship. It gains a lot of value with mods that make military ships much harder to acquire, being one of the few bigger armed ships sold on the civilian market. That's even supposed to be a trait of the Venture according to its description (usually the flagship in a civilian fleet).
Though that's lost in vanilla where full-on warships are as easy to acquire as buying a bicycle.

For the Tempest, I always expected the Tempest to be weaker than the Scarab, since the Tempest is a regular high tech frigate and the Scarab is supposed to be a super-speshul prototype ship. The Scarab really shouldn't be as common as the Tempest considering that though.
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Bummelei

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Re: A Tale of Two Tech Levels
« Reply #265 on: September 25, 2021, 08:40:17 AM »

I wouldn't call 2 medium + 2 small missiles with FMR and 3 more medium weapon slots "frigate level firepower". Given how we are getting premium armor/hull tanking skills and the ability to reduce DP by up to 50%, spamming Ventures might become a very oppressive strat.

Ship has abysmal problems with flux, and if you don't max it's vents and flux pool to be around 10k+ you ain't going nowhere, and from that point you already don't have enough OP to pick up "extended missile racks" or even get all medium and small slots. And you still desperately need burn lvl and speed, because you have neither range nor great firepower from the very beginning, and without speed you're unable to catch anyone aside from another lowtech cruisers.

The main problem with venture is speed. The burn is so low, and the ship is also slow in combat. The flux stats are also destroyer level which I think is a better representation of firepower. The missiles probably give it overall light cruiser firepower for the beginning of the fight, but with terrible mobility, that doesn't really work if anything in the enemy fleet has significant firepower. No way to run and too weak to win. It's at best an early game bully, but has the campaign stats of a late game ship.

The problem is that for the early game it is too expensive, slow and too fuel-hungry. Therefore, it is easier to take a couple of destroyers as an anchor for the fleet, than buying Venture.

I'm fine with the Venture's combat performance, being an armed freighter and not a warship. It gains a lot of value with mods that make military ships much harder to acquire, being one of the few bigger armed ships sold on the civilian market. That's even supposed to be a trait of the Venture according to its description (usually the flagship in a civilian fleet).
Though that's lost in vanilla where full-on warships are as easy to acquire as buying a bicycle.

For the Tempest, I always expected the Tempest to be weaker than the Scarab, since the Tempest is a regular high tech frigate and the Scarab is supposed to be a super-speshul prototype ship. The Scarab really shouldn't be as common as the Tempest considering that though.

It was fine in the 0.91, i always started with Venture in early game, but now it's just not worth it. And yes, Venture could be considered an armed freighter, if not for the presence of the Mule in the game, which one by the way is still quite good.

I think amount of Scarabs and Hyperions on markets gameplaywise is completely fine and balanced, in comparison with previous patch.
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