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[Mordodrukow]

seriously, how did it live that long? Ody's should be able to catch a HH

I m asking exactly the same question every time! It even has Unstable injector. It must catch him. I dont know whats the problem they always have.

In both these cases, the AI thinks it is winning

In both cases i want AI to follow simple orders, not think. They already have rally point, why i must spend more command points for "avoid" orders? I ll say more: in different situations i tried avoid orders, tried eliminate orders, tried combinations of all that. It doesnt work unless my fleet is already has so big advantage, that i can simply order full assault. The only orders which work well are: full assault, full retreat, retreat and sometimes - escort (And that one has other problems: if you order to follow you, those idiots will block you from the rear by shields, when you need to fall back. And you cant order to escort anybody else, because they will fly away and die so fast, like it is their primary purpose).

Its an issue that players need to be aware of, and try to fix

Player must fix that issue? Yes, i know, that i need big range or fast skirmishers (my Fury can finish some destroyers fast even when AI piloted, but i cant deploy Fury every time), i said it earlier, and i ll repeat: it is not OK. It IS a problem, that the game gives you like 2 or 3 ways to play it, or offers to suffer if you dont agree.

[Histidine]

I mean that's clearly a bug that should be reported to Alex, even if it may not be readily fixable. It'd be one thing if the affected player ship had been herded away by superior opposition, but that's not what happened here.

When I issue a rally/defend order I mean "go here", not "go here right after spending several minutes chasing this one smaller ship". If I wanted the ship killed first I'd have issued an eliminate or engage order to the player ship involved, or no order at all!

(Possibly related bug from 0.9.1: AI can't find disengage path)

[Lucky33]

Some general rules.

1. You want the AI to follow orders? Use reckless officers. There are some restrictions but typically it works most of the time. So if even the reckless ones are unable to comply than most likely the problem is the situation that you get your ships into.

2. Respect the rank. Smaller ships are literally afraid of the bigger ones.

3. If you want AI to be able to directly attack enemy ship than make sure that your ship has:

a) about x 1.5-2 speed advantage without mobility system on your side but with the inclusion of the enemy one.
b) enough flux to not get into about 0.5 flux capacity after single 2-3 sec burst from the enemy.
c) enough pd to almost instantly destroy any rockets/missiles.

Only when all of this demands are met you can assign your ship to attack a single target head on and expect certain results. If not you are wasting your command point on a wild goose chase.

4. When you send in multiple ships against single one, those in the middle will act as a hold in while other attempt to flank the target. They can fail for a number of reasons. But the central ones will still wait for them to conclude. In this case you should remove your order. The major reason for a failure is that flankers got flanked themselves. Especially in the case of the non-reckless officers. This is why you are expected to think ahead.

5. After getting above 50% of the flux pool the non-reckless ships will start their backing-off routine. This is the worst time to commence the attack on the said ships. You either destroy them in one go or do not bother with the pursuit. Everything in between is the overcommitment for no good reason. You are wasting your ships time.

6. Combined arms. Everything magically starts to work when you destroy the target's engine at the start of the assault. Most people doesn't run fleets optimized to produce the omega level alpha-strike capable of instantly poping any target on the battlefleet. But, for more obscure reasons, they also completely ignore the disabling measures. It doesn't help. You have three options: a) overkill, b) over-speed and c) disable. Not using a single one shouldn't be treated as the AI's fault.

[Locklave]

Full assault order, aggressive officer, enemy crippled, flux less then 25%, back off and vent flux... my head explodes.

[Hessu]

It feels like the enemy AI is much better in this patch while own team AI is horrible. It felt better at previous patch. I think it might something to do with the ECM and nav buffs that the enemy always get full bonus, because they got leaders in every ship and got *** ton of frigates that get those buffs.

It sucks, but i guess you gotta just use railguns and other long range stuff.

[Lucky33]

Full assault order, aggressive officer, enemy crippled, flux less then 25%, back off and vent flux... my head explodes.

Aggressive is not reckless. Only the latter actually ignores the surroundings and the flux level. The former will only try to close the range.

[Scorpixel]

It feels like the enemy AI is much better in this patch while own team AI is horrible. It felt better at previous patch. I think it might something to do with the ECM and nav buffs that the enemy always get full bonus, because they got leaders in every ship and got *** ton of frigates that get those buffs.

It sucks, but i guess you gotta just use railguns and other long range stuff.

The extreme cowardice problem of the AI is far less blatant with a range advantage, in 9.1 you always had it without even trying and it showed with how easy it was to contain the enemy (even while outnumbered 2:3), but in the current version you're doomed to have inferior reach due to the enemy having double/triple the officiers.

The orders really need to be stricter on the AI, stuff like having your entire fleet dance around an assault objective instead of taking it because a Hound is within 3k range is far too common.

[Hessu]

Is there someway to remove ECM altogether from the game? Battles might work better that way.

[BreekiJack]

It feels like the enemy AI is much better in this patch while own team AI is horrible. It felt better at previous patch. I think it might something to do with the ECM and nav buffs that the enemy always get full bonus, because they got leaders in every ship and got *** ton of frigates that get those buffs.

It sucks, but i guess you gotta just use railguns and other long range stuff.

The extreme cowardice problem of the AI is far less blatant with a range advantage, in 9.1 you always had it without even trying and it showed with how easy it was to contain the enemy (even while outnumbered 2:3), but in the current version you're doomed to have inferior reach due to the enemy having double/triple the officiers.

The orders really need to be stricter on the AI, stuff like having your entire fleet dance around an assault objective instead of taking it because a Hound is within 3k range is far too common.

Yeah that's a fair point. Btw, and on that line of thought does anyone know how to make the Astral capital ship more agressive ? Whenever i order it to capture a point with other ships it actually backpedals for no apparent reason... I really like the idea of that ship but compared to the legion that responds correctly to orders i'm hesitating using the Astral since it doesn't really seem to attack unless you order it to eliminate a ship in particular

[Drazan]

3. If you want AI to be able to directly attack enemy ship than make sure that your ship has:

a) about x 1.5-2 speed advantage without mobility system on your side but with the inclusion of the enemy one.
b) enough flux to not get into about 0.5 flux capacity after single 2-3 sec burst from the enemy.
c) enough pd to almost instantly destroy any rockets/missiles.

This is not right. Not right at all. If my fleet is only working properly when i have advantages, then its actually not working properly. Most of the time the enemy outnumbers, outofficers, and consecvently outranges you. So i want an ai that works properly in those condition, even without me micromanaging the ships every 15 secound and setting up a quantillion rally point.

When ships ignore orders to stay alive then it's forgivable, but most of the time they ignore orders just to get wrecked in the most stupid ways. This. Is. Not. Right. You can say that people ar not using commands effectively, or they do not have the right builds but thats not the point. A ship is acting stupid. This needs to be fixed.

[Drazan]

Maybe it seems like the enemy ai is better than friendly beacuse the enemy actually know better how to use the commands and what do they do. This is easy for the computer, but for a player commands should be more straightforward. We only get some vague instructions about what orders do and after countless releases we started to work out how do they work, but this is definitely not how combat shpuld be.

[Lucky33]

3. If you want AI to be able to directly attack enemy ship than make sure that your ship has:

a) about x 1.5-2 speed advantage without mobility system on your side but with the inclusion of the enemy one.
b) enough flux to not get into about 0.5 flux capacity after single 2-3 sec burst from the enemy.
c) enough pd to almost instantly destroy any rockets/missiles.

This is not right. Not right at all. If my fleet is only working properly when i have advantages, then its actually not working properly. Most of the time the enemy outnumbers, outofficers, and consecvently outranges you. So i want an ai that works properly in those condition, even without me micromanaging the ships every 15 secound and setting up a quantillion rally point.

When ships ignore orders to stay alive then it's forgivable, but most of the time they ignore orders just to get wrecked in the most stupid ways. This. Is. Not. Right. You can say that people ar not using commands effectively, or they do not have the right builds but thats not the point. A ship is acting stupid. This needs to be fixed.

I've already posted several cases of actually wanky behavior. But your case is completely different.

From the formal real life battlefleet doctrine point of view, situation when your enemy has numerical and quality advantage will result in your defeat if you are to choose to commit your forces into classic line battle. To win you have to either change the situation at the operational level or to use unconventional/asymmetric tactic exploiting the flaws and weaknesses of the larger fleet. The game is mostly about the latter. What leads us to a conclusion. We are both using the same game, however I have no trouble to use my forces. Because I know how they work. From my point of view it is the enemy AI what is ineffective, naive and easy to deceive while doing mistake after mistake. And my fleet is the ruthless, well oiled and smooth working, machine of destruction.

[Rauschkind]

reckless officers, speed advantage, its all a load of ***.
its not working. you keep repeating "solutions" that obviously are based on nothing but assumptions and  that do not work in game.

i have seen ships with reckless officers in pretty tanky and decently fast ships failing in the same way - staying just outside their own weapon range - when attacking *stations* too. i see fast ships not getting in range to very slow ships all the time.
reckless officers will do that just the same as steady ones. reckless officers are just more suicidal overall, like they will show this behaviour even when surrounded by an armada where a steady one would back up much further.
and even if the speed difference can only be described with infinites, they will do so, clearly showing that speed is not what is causing this problem.
another really good proof is that when switching to a ship showing this behaviour, player piloted its usually not an issue to get in range at all. its just the ai deciding not to do so.

[Thaago]

If you have a reproducible case of reckless officers not attacking when given orders, you should submit a bug report. This can either be in the form of a full loadout (including officer and skills) vs simulator enemies, or a save right before a fight that exhibits the behavior (with a description of what to do in the fight for it to happen). There is one currently known bug making ships back off that has been fixed.

[Lucky33]

you keep repeating "solutions" that obviously are based on nothing but assumptions and  that do not work in game

They are based on about 8 years of experience with the game. And the sole reason I'm even partaking in this debate is that it reminded me of my first impressions. And how they were wrong. Now it seems more of a joke that at some point I was actually played by the combat algorithms of this game. What, in a sense, was good. And I have to give Alex that.