Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 146

Author Topic: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 502360 times)

Histidine

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4040
    • View Profile
    • Bitbucket profile
    • Email
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #135 on: October 17, 2020, 10:00:04 PM »

Hmm? The patch notes talk about AI fleet composition changes.
Less top-heavy (i.e. fewer large ships), more even mix of ship classes on the high end
    Use "mercenary" type officers to augment the fleets and go above the 10 officer limit
that doesn't seem to address the problem, it only affects composition of a fleet, not the size of it
or am i not understanding something
we have that already, in "maxShipsInAIFleet", but if i set it lower it will not make fleets smaller in the late game, it will only make them to consist of the largest ships possible
i'm talking about hard restrictions of how much fleet points a fleet can possibly have, overriding any other factors(vanilla or modded).
because late game battles can take several hours real time to fight, when combined fleet points of ai fleet exceed maximum possible battle size multiple times over, it's just reinforcements after reinforcements after reinforcements over and over again, all at 10fps at best.

I think you may be missing the "less top heavy" part? The max number of ships is the same but a top-end fleet will have a few capitals (along with smaller ships filling it in) and a bunch of officers rather than a *ton* of capitals and a few token something-elses.

This also reminds me - I may have toned down the number of fleets in the high-end expeditions, but it didn't make it into the patch notes. I seem to remember making some changes with these; will have to have another look.

(Edit: just to be clear, we're very much on the same page as far as what you're describing not being good.)
I think the only vanilla fleets that are clearly oversized are some of the pirate distress call ambushes* (like three fleets of 8-10 capitals + support each) and possibly pirate raids from max level bases. (EDIT: also level >10 person bounties)
 
If mods are making fleets with excessive FP, that's either necessary for the desired function or an issue with the mod.

*possibly due to the fleets being spawned with the fleet size multiplier of the nearest pirate market?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 10:08:34 PM by Histidine »
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2667
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #136 on: October 17, 2020, 10:35:20 PM »

Mhh, is there even enough difference left between "moving slowly" and "going dark" to warrant them being separate options? Seems like turning off your transponder and moving slowly archives almost the same thing as going dark. Minus the 50% detection range reduction, which could just be added to moving slowly.

I just had the though that it might be cool if only "go dark" would extend the phase field of phase ships around the entire fleet (and more effectively), but it would cost them CR at a slow rate. So without phase ships in your fleet there would be no "go dark" option and "move slowly" would take over that function.

"Go dark" is a bit easier to use for a longer period, just usability-wise, and it auto-toggles the transponder off, so that's more convenient, too. "Move slowly" is more of a thing you do intermittently. Still, I get what you're saying, hmm.


Could "Move slowly" be an automated additional stance on top of normal move/sustained burn? When you enter asteroid field/etc it activates, but otherwise you move at speed of other stance.
I mean there seems to be absolutely no reason to use "Move slowly" in clear space, and constantly triggering it on/off can get very annoying (to the point that I'm likely ignore it and just eat asteroid hits if penalty is not too bad).
Logged

SonnaBanana

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 786
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #137 on: October 18, 2020, 02:35:17 AM »

Anyone here believe that medium ballistic weapons which cost 8 OP or less need to be readjusted now that railguns are now 8 OP? Do their OP costs and performance need to be increased? Or it is fine for medium weapons to cost less OP than a light weapon?
Logged
I'm not going to check but you should feel bad :( - Alex

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1945
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2020, 02:58:50 AM »

I don't see why would that be a problem. Even before we had Needlers at 9 OP while Heavy mortar costs 7. That way you have some useful cheap options without having to downsize mounts. I think it's fine for the game to have budget and super elite options for each mount size. Otherwise you'd just be seeing Needlera in almost every medium slot.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Serenitis

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1346
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #139 on: October 18, 2020, 02:59:27 AM »

Quote
Nanoforges: add Pollution when installed; becomes permanent after three months
Is this going to be permanent as in absolutely final, or will you be able to 'upgrade' to a better version of the same thing later?

Hmm, I don't quite understand the question. The Pollution condition will be permanent and nothing removes it, if that's what you're asking.

Wait. Is this the pollution being being made permanent?
I read that as the nanoforge getting 'locked' in place and thus becoming permanent, and was slightly concerned that this might introduce 'gamey' behaviour regarding never using 'inferior' versions of things.

Logged

Arcagnello

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
  • Arguably Heretical, Definetly Insane
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #140 on: October 18, 2020, 03:07:48 AM »

Whew! That's some nice patch notes you got there!

Obvious excitement about the new story and ship/weapon content aside, I am really looking forwards to

1)Improved AI behaviour. Having the AI handle itself better and better every patch would provide us with what I think is a much needed difficulty and quality of life bump at the same time. I am looking forward to my aggressive ships to boost into the enemy with even less abandon also  ;)

2)The much needed carrier spam has finally arrived. Not only we got notoriously overperforming carriers like Drover and Astral dialed back but we also have reinforced deck crew Rebalanced and the most cancer inducing fighter in the game actually cut down to serve it's intended role. Bravo!

I've only got back to being active on the forum for a month but I could easily spot changes done out of suggestions and discussions we had. The thread about the Gladius resulting in buffing both Gladius and Warthog, the thread about armor resulting in the Heavy Armor modspec being buffed and I could go on! I am so glad you guys value direct feedback from a loving community as much as you do. I am probably buying Starsector to some of my friends this Christmas!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 03:09:43 AM by Arcagnello »
Logged
Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
The therapist removed my F5 key.

AcaMetis

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #141 on: October 18, 2020, 03:33:02 AM »

...

Speaking of expeditions, "interesting event that you interact with" just sounds like "annually mandatory babysitting session" to me, honestly. And like it'd limit playstyle because if I have to intervene with my own fleet I'd pretty much be on a timer to amass a final endgame doomfleet whenever I put my first colony down.
...

I've read things like this a lot while lurking in these forums and i still don't understand it. In some of my playthroughs i've started colonizing as soon as half a year into the game and even then i've never found expeditions to be a problem. When fighting them myself i've usually found them to be underwhelming and by the time they might get bigger the colonies tend to be defended enough that they don't even need me.
Maybe they become a problem once they send multiple "very strong" fleets but in my experience they're not in any kind of a hurry to do that. Maybe they will eventually if you keep playing but by that time you'd have all the ships you want in your own fleet anyway.

Now the first pirate fleet, that appears to be scripted to be sent within a few months and tends to be a lot bigger than the ones that spawn from bases afterwards, *that* can be a challenge if you rushed for colonies.
In the current version of the game they're indeed not a problem (aside from making the other factions seem incredibly selfish, suicidal and petty, maybe). But with the upcoming changes I'm afraid of them becoming a problem, if not directly than because of another change indirectly resulting in them being harder to deal with. For example, if the profitability nerfs make it so you just cannot afford to build up colony defences in time they might end up becoming an issue. Of course that specific example I don't think will be an issue, since it should be easily countered by the increased profitability of weapon sales and available work through contacts. But something else unexpected might crop up.

In my experience the scripted pirate base that always spawns and very quickly sends a fleet your way is always a mere level 1 base, even a fledging colony can handle a -1/-10% raid...though they'll start at level 2 in the upcoming patch, and a -2/-30% base will send 2.5× bigger fleets, so...yeah. Anyway the issue isn't -1/-10% bases, it's the existing -3/-50% bases randomly deciding to raid your colonies long before you're ready to handle the fleets they send.

Speaking of expeditions, "interesting event that you interact with" just sounds like "annually mandatory babysitting session" to me, honestly.

Eh, that really depends. I mean, I get where you're coming from, but e.g. (numbers totally made up) if an expedition comes once every ten cycles and is a huge problem you have to scramble to deal with, then that's going to feel differently than a drop-feed of weaker stuff every couple of months. So it's definitely a thing where how much of it there is and what it does/what kind of response it requires changes it qualitatively.

Basically, I'm worried about colonies being overly nerfed in terms of them becoming a permanent ball and chain for the player

Like I said, fair concern, but per my previous response, I think it'll be ok. And if not, it'll need tuning!

(I don't think the item restrictions are *that* punishing, that is, you should be able to find a planet that you can use any given item on without too much trouble. An optimal one is another question, but that's already the case...)
True. And honestly the "fewer, but more problematic" angle would probably work better in a "the universe actually makes sense" sort of way, because honestly I'm not sure why the various factions repeatedly send these massive doomfleets to die against the vastly superior defence fleets and (Alpha Cored) star fortresses that they died on the last many times they tried. Especially instead of protecting their own colonies against the many pirates that raid them into decivilizing. To name one particularly egregious example, in one save I've got...four or five size 10 colonies (good system Cryosleeper ;D) each with an Alpha Core admin, Alpha Core star fortress, Alpha Core military base (high command in one case), Alpha Core heavy batteries and Alpha Core Red Planet Device. You'd think the factions would learn that sending two fleets is not going to stop me from cutting into their ore export, and yet...

If the option remains to bribe off these fleets, either with money or with favors, that'll also help. Just in case I get caught unprepared (I...might have a bad tendency to cut the defence budget in favor of more growth sometimes ::)) or really don't want to bother right that moment. Especially now that building up faction relationships should be easier with contacts (before like 99% of all mission only boosted the Independents) it'll be easier to grease the wheels with something other than a giant pile of...recycled pirate fleets whenever a system bounty pops up.

And yes, however the situation will end up actually playing out ingame it'll probably need and get tuned afterwards. Given the number of changes and especially completely new/overhauled features I'm fully expecting a few patches to fix the inevitable mistakes. And they'll be great fun to try out.
Logged

pairedeciseaux

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #142 on: October 18, 2020, 05:42:15 AM »

Jumping into the Mark IX (and Onslaught) side discussion: Mark IX Autocannon is in a good place, IMO.

Spoiler
Basically it is a large size Heavy Autocannon. What they have in common:
  • Both shoots a volley of projectiles with no charge-up delay and with the same projectile speed.
  • Both provide sustained kinetic pressure, whereas Heavy Needler provides strong kinetic bursts.
  • Per-projectile damage is mid-range compared to other kinetic weapons of the same size, neither high nor low. This tends to not only damage shields, but also slowly strip armors and hulls.

What is different:
  • Mark IX Autocannon has faster turn rate: 10 vs 7. It does matter on Onslaught.
  • Mark IX Autocannon shoots 4 projectiles per volley vs 3 for HAC.
  • Mark IX Autocannon has much higher per-projectile damage: 200 vs 100, so higher armor stripping power and longer shield overload duration.
  • So the per-volley shield damage is 1600 vs 600 (if all projectiles hit).
  • Mark IX Autocannon has longer range: with ITU on capitals, that’s 1440 vs 1280, 160 more, so Mark IX will always fire at least one volley before HAC fires its first volley.
  • Mark IX Autocannon has better accuracy and it shoots its 4 projectiles in a tighter time frame, so better effective DPS against small/moving targets.
  • Mark IX Autocannon has a longer overall volley re-fire delay: 2.3 seconds vs 1.4, which is a drawback (but not as bad as with Heavy Needlers). I still consider this to be sustained fire, especially when shot at long range.
  • Mark IX Autocannon delivers 348 DPS vs 214 (if all projectiles hit).
  • Mark IX Autocannon has a 230 per-projectile flux cost, HAC has 100.

Considering Mark IX is 18 OP and HAC is 10, I would say we got a decent deal. You could reduce the per-projectile flux cost to, say, 220, but I suspect it would not really matter in the end. Hmm, and/or maybe raise the per-projectile flux cost of HAC to 110. :)

On Onslaught, my typical load-out has: 1 Mark IX Autocannon in the center and 2 Heavy Autocannons in the front side. This never disappoints. Both gun types work well-enough together. This way the Mark IX provides superior kinetic front range (which I consider important on this ship) and good overall kinetic effectiveness.

On Conquest, my typical load-out has: Mark IX Autocannons in the front large ballistic slots on both sides, and Heavy Autocannons in the next medium ballistic slots on both sides.

On Dominator I often use either a pair of Mark IX Autocannons in large slots together with medium HE guns in the medium slots, or a pair of Heavy Autocannons in the medium slots together with large HE guns in the large slots. Sometimes I mix 1 Mark IX Autocannon with another large gun, and a least 1 Heavy Autocannon.

Same general approach on Legion as on Dominator.

(notice I did not mention using Heavy Needler on any of those ships)

My points being,
  • overall Mark IX and HAC serve the same purpose in a similar way
  • Mark IX has clear performance advantages compared to HAC, and some downsides too
  • needlers are entirely different beasts.
[close]
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1945
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #143 on: October 18, 2020, 06:37:51 AM »

I don't get how you not using Needlers on those shipa proves anything. You also said you don't use flaks on Dominator medium slots so I'm taking it all with a grain of salt. And yes obviously Mark IX is stronger than the HAC, if it wasn't, something would be very wrong. Now you listed all of the differences but forgot the most important one, losing efficiency (aren't large weapons supposed to be efficient anyways?). So you get a choice like this: Use a weapon with better sustained damage and better shot/dmg and worse everything, or the opposite which is cheaper than the first.

Again, it's not a bad weapon, but it shouldn't have 1.15 efficiency for its performance.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

CoverdInBees

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #144 on: October 18, 2020, 06:47:44 AM »

...
In my experience the scripted pirate base that always spawns and very quickly sends a fleet your way is always a mere level 1 base, even a fledging colony can handle a -1/-10% raid...though they'll start at level 2 in the upcoming patch, and a -2/-30% base will send 2.5× bigger fleets, so...yeah. Anyway the issue isn't -1/-10% bases, it's the existing -3/-50% bases randomly deciding to raid your colonies long before you're ready to handle the fleets they send.
...

The base is always a small one indeed, at least afaik. But the first fleet it spawns/that gets spawned along with it seems to be independant from that base and/or the normal rules.
I haven't done *that* many playthroughs, but in my experience that scripted fleet usually comes with multiple capitals (5+ iirc) and decent support fleets, while the "normal" fleets for a freshly spawned base like that have maybe 2 or 3 plus weak support fleets.
If you rushed hard enough that you only have a handful of combat ships with maybe 1 or 2 cruisers at the higher end that can still pose a real problem. Especially if the fleets arrive a few weeks *before* you're able to complete an orbital station, as it tends to do more often than not.

Luckily it's not the end of the world even if you get raided though. For that reason i don't think it's a problem if a -3 base randomly switches to your system either, since that's pretty rare in the first place.

As for the original point, about expedition forces and them maybe becoming stronger (relative to the colonies). Could be that that happens, and could be that they become so strong it's too much, but i don't really fear it from reading the various changes. So i guess we'll have to wait and see on that one. (Also remember that playtesting doesn't even seem to have started yet)


...
FWIW, what you're describing sounds exactly right to me. If I had to guess, I think there's a tendency to gloss over this interval - which probably makes up for most of the playthroughs for many players - because it's not a "stable end state", if that makes sense. Which, I mean, fair enough on that count, but also a grain of salt.
...

Ah yeah makes sense. I think i've only done one playthrough where i played for 15 years or so, and probably colonized pretty late on that one, because there isn't enough "endgame" to keep things interesting/challenging once you start running multiple capitals (plus fully fleshed out support fleet/maxed officers/etc) imo. So might be that i've only dipped my toe in that "stable end state", or never even seen it yet.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 07:15:14 AM by CoverdInBees »
Logged

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 10845
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #145 on: October 18, 2020, 07:13:25 AM »

Again, it's not a bad weapon, but it shouldn't have 1.15 efficiency for its performance.
If there will not be an elite medium-range heavy kinetic, I agree.  With small, we have light needler and railgun.  With medium, we have heavy needler.  With heavy, we have... nothing.  Closest Mark IX has to a useful medium-range alternative is downsizing to Heavy Needler.

If there will be a new heavy kinetic, or Storm Needler upgraded to 800+ range (why is Heavy Needler the only needler with 800 range), then Mark IX being mildly inefficient may not be a problem.

Quote
If the option remains to bribe off these fleets, either with money or with favors, that'll also help. Just in case I get caught unprepared (I...might have a bad tendency to cut the defence budget in favor of more growth sometimes ::)) or really don't want to bother right that moment. Especially now that building up faction relationships should be easier with contacts (before like 99% of all mission only boosted the Independents) it'll be easier to grease the wheels with something other than a giant pile of...recycled pirate fleets whenever a system bounty pops up.
Patch notes says story points will be required for bribes (that I like to call extortion payments).  Urge to kill all of the core worlds rising!

It is stupid that the "massive doomfleets" sent to invade your systems are bigger or stronger than their system defense fleets.  It should not be easier to destroy Chicomoztoc (or other major faction's capital world) and the rest of their worlds than it is to defend my colonies.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 07:25:36 AM by Megas »
Logged

ArkAngel

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • The essence of strategy is choosing what not to do
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #146 on: October 18, 2020, 07:41:25 AM »

It is stupid that the "massive doomfleets" sent to invade your systems are bigger or stronger than their system defense fleets.  It should not be easier to destroy Chicomoztoc (or other major faction's capital world) and the rest of their worlds than it is to defend my colonies.
I mean it makes sense if you think about it. For the doomfleet task forces, they take a bit to prepare and bring together ships from where they need to across the faction. Where as, ships defending there territory are just garrisons. I can’t help but think of the Mayasura story mission.
Logged
"Yes... Yes I -am- sending you, alone, unarmed, against the might of the Hegemony defense fleet.  Not to worry - watching how they obliterate your puny frigate will be most... enlightening.  I shall dissect their tactics and emerge victorious!  Any questions? Then get to your ship, you launch in 5."

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 10845
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2020, 07:58:53 AM »

It is stupid that the "massive doomfleets" sent to invade your systems are bigger or stronger than their system defense fleets.  It should not be easier to destroy Chicomoztoc (or other major faction's capital world) and the rest of their worlds than it is to defend my colonies.
I mean it makes sense if you think about it. For the doomfleet task forces, they take a bit to prepare and bring together ships from where they need to across the faction. Where as, ships defending there territory are just garrisons. I can’t help but think of the Mayasura story mission.
It may make sense, but it is unsatisfying for gameplay.  My first priority is to amass enough military strength so that my colonies can take care of themselves and my fleet can be free to do fun things like explore and do quests (or raid enemies like Ordos) instead of being forced to babysit my colonies for an extended period of time.  By the time my system defenses are strong enough, killing all of the core worlds becomes trivial.

Some of those doomfleets ought to be sent to pirate bases and their mortal enemies too.

The strongest named bounties too are overpowered compared to core worlds' system defenses.  If the player's fleet can smash the strongest bounties, that same fleet can sneeze on the core worlds and they all burn down.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 08:01:03 AM by Megas »
Logged

TheDTYP

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #148 on: October 18, 2020, 08:05:28 AM »

The lore junkie in me is positively losing his mind right now...
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4343
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #149 on: October 18, 2020, 08:35:29 AM »

As for the planet size, I think it's unfortunate that your colonies will never be as large as the core world ones. Probably doesn't matter for gameplay, but it feels bad.

That's quite subjective, so: fair enough! I just don't think it makes in-fiction sense.

And for that reason, I, for one, wholeheartedly approve of the switch to smaller player colonies. It never made sense to me that you could reach population sizes within a few cycles that took other factions over 200 cycles to accomplish. If it were me, colonies would also start smaller and slower - not with a spaceport and "population&infrastructure" but with landing pads and homesteads.


Mining stations have a chance to drop a very large quantity of low-value commodities

Speaking of, are there any plans to make mining stations (or other non colony-bound stations) available to the player? There is no real reason I can see why they apparently were a common thing in the Sector before the fall and now fell completely out of use. (Giving some (hint of a ) reason in game would also be fine.)


Some of those doomfleets ought to be sent to pirate bases and their mortal enemies too.

That would do a lot for the believability of the world! And it would be a great opportunity for the player to experience a grand battle early on. Maybe even by joining as a mercenary.
Logged
The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 146