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Author Topic: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign  (Read 15592 times)

Icelom

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2012, 08:08:53 PM »


I didn't 'call' them out on anything but gameplay issues such as the slowness of progression in the campaign.  Why not space monsters, pirate society (They're in the game already!), or inter-factional war (Also already in the game, read the fluff!), but that doesn't mean that I cannot suggest their additions.  I write down what I think would be best or would be something interesting to try out.  What's wrong with a customization that's actually customizable?  Currently there's not much you can do as all the variants are pretty much as optimized as they can get, unless they use the Salamander MRM which you just trade out for the Harpoon, but that's it.  Graphical indicators of broken armor aren't in, you cannot tell how much armor you have left in total, only your hull and flux capacities.

Auto-pilot is simply better in the area of weapons control, reflexes and mathmatics.  If it relies using more than one mouse or quick math calculations than computers will always be better.  There's a reason why in fighting games it's nearly impossible to beat an AI if the developers wanted to.  They can perfectly time counters, blocks, attacks, etc. at such a rate that you cannot.  Turrets in starfarer can attack several different targets whereas if you're in control they can only target what you aim at.  There's a reason why big blue was able to defeat the best chess player, and that's because it could calculate 200 billion moves in every 3 minute periods.  The main problem is that beyond things like maneuvering, shield management, and other such there's little reason not to leave your weapons on auto-pilot.  Sometimes the game's total auto-pilot is even better than the player, not always but it certainly can be.  Especially at the 'Elite' rank, I hope you realize that there's a huge difference between the strength of green and elite ranks.

Let's take an average frigate, they cost about 7,500 credits.  Most battles don't even generate that much especially early on you can earn as low as 300 per battle.  So that means at the lowest rate it takes 25 battles without a loss to either replace a broken ship or get a new one for the fleet.  However it's more commonly 500 credits so that's about 15 battles.  So, tell me how is not losing 1-2 ships not a crushing blow?  That's easily double what you could ever earn in a single battle against fleets that could easily destroy the entire thing.

Chesse is a finite game, while complex it is finite making it much more easy to program you dont really need AI you just need massive computing power to try every possible combination. (thats basically what the current AI is, but its getting more complex in being able to rule out options and speed up the whole process.)

At any rate, i can and do outpreform the AI on a constant basis, and alex as stated the AI has no advantage over the player meaning they set up autofires just like us and can only control 1 weapon group at a time not on auto fire and that weapon group behaves just like one manual controled by the player. Ya i cant fire my pd weapons better then the autofire can, so i let the auto fire do it... but i can most cerntainly control my antimatter blasters or larger slower rate of fires alot better then the ai can. I am better at leading fast targets, knowing when not to fire beacuse of flux issues and when to fire based on the enemies state. The AI in this game is great but it needs a bit of a tweak its really bad at sheild managment when near full flux and it also does not like to take armor damage when it should to maximize firepower.

You dont know the exact amount of armour you have left but you get a good idea of what the state of your armor is like and that is indeed a graphical indicator what you are asking for is a numerical indicator (so dont shoot someone down for saying there allready is a graphical indicator) and i think thats not a good idea as armour is not just a chunk of points that has to go to 0, there would be no meaningfull way to represent this as a number since every bit of hull has its own amount of armor so having 1000 armor left means nothing if they are shooting you where you dont have any armor left, and the current "graphical" indicator shows us where we have armor. I think adding a numerical armor indicator like you asked would confuse things and actually provide little info if any that is actually usefull.

In your 15 battles to replace a loss statement you are forgeting that you can capture ships that are now free (minus a small marine and supply cost)... Factor in those numbers when you are doing your how many battles it takes to recover calculations. Its allready painfully easy to build a giant ass fleet and i am hopeing in the next realease it becomes harder. Personaly what i would like is to be able to capture more ships but have more costs asociated with capturing and repairing them so i can get access to more ships but have to make decisison on what ones i want and what ones should be skuttled. as it sitts right now you can have a good fight and double your fleet value (or more) that seems outragous.

There is nothing wrong with having ideas, i just disagree with some of the precieved problems you have with this game.

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Reshy

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2012, 06:54:06 PM »

What's wrong with a customization that's actually customizable?  Currently there's not much you can do as all the variants are pretty much as optimized as they can get, unless they use the Salamander MRM which you just trade out for the Harpoon, but that's it.
that's not true, Variants are only semi optimized... to be honest, i never use the preset variants and always equip my ships how i think it suits me best, especially because PD isn't PD, you can for example use different PD weapons to save some OP and spend them somewhere else
the people who created the variants are just humans too, there is no reason why you couldn't be as efficient as they are when equiping your ship with weapons and hull mods
also... salamander MRM's are quite nice :P


Graphical indicators of broken armor aren't in, you cannot tell how much armor you have left in total, only your hull and flux capacities.
there is graphical indication of armor in the bottom left, the little image of your ship, when the armor get's damaged it changes
also, your ship itself displays broken armor pretty good, it changes the sprite

any other way of displaying armor might be difficult to realize... armor isn't a total, there is no total armor
armor is directional, you have front, rear and side armor...
displaying that in a HUD will take up a lot of place, clumping up the UI


Auto-pilot is simply better in the area of weapons control, reflexes and mathmatics. Turrets in starfarer can attack several different targets whereas if you're in control they can only target what you aim at. The main problem is that beyond things like maneuvering, shield management, and other such there's little reason not to leave your weapons on auto-pilot.  Sometimes the game's total auto-pilot is even better than the player, not always but it certainly can be.  Especially at the 'Elite' rank, I hope you realize that there's a huge difference between the strength of green and elite ranks.

Auto Pilot is not that good, it certainly has it's place but if in doubt it's always better to control your ship yourself
Reason for that is that AI's are always limited in certain ways, Humans are way better at decisionmaking than any computer
as a human player you can optimize shield usage and positioning, flying and most importantly weapons

Yes! you have to set certain weapons on autofire, because you can't keep up with the AI, you can't deal with PD yourself
but in 90% of all cases you should control your main gun and all missiles yourself, the AI won't use that extra bit of range outside what's your "real" range, it's only sub par at stoping to fire when your flux get's too high or just to not fire because you are under attack... or when it wouldn't make sense to fire because you are already at 50% flux and can't bring the shield of your opponent down like that etc.
The AI can't prioritize targets in a way you can... it does to a certain amount but it can't keep up with you...
The AI can't tell that it is outgunned before getting into trouble
the AI will sometimes maneuver itself into a position where it is trapped and takes a lot of dmg... it lacks spacial awareness
and you have much more freedom when flying with a ship... the AI would never fly around a fleet to snipe the weak part of the fleet (carriers!)


There's a reason why big blue was able to defeat the best chess player, and that's because it could calculate 200 billion moves in every 3 minute periods.

this only is partly true, computers suck at calculating somethings
the best example are spacial relationships
just last year, scientiests made a breakthrough in fighting HIV/AIDS
this was only possible because of Fold.it, where gamers try to solve the riddles of biology by folding Aminoacids in a special developed game
Gamers were able to solve a special aminoacid in only 3 weeks, that couldn't be solved by computers designed to solve such things in 3 years



Ships also are randomly assigned a task when you set a capture/assist/waypoint/etc.

Rumor is, there is a priority list inside the game
the most suited ship get's assigned to the order





Thing is that I'm weighed down by all sorts of interesting weapons but none of the ships can really use them.  Let's take the Tachyon Lance, currently only the Paragon, Odyssey, Apogee, and Sunder ships can carry it.  Out of all the various ships only 4 can use it, and that's without stripping the ship of other stuff just to get the massive 32 ordinance space.  So pretty much the only use I get out of it is vendor trash, or as a replacement for a damaged Paragon.  Only the Medusa, Shuttle, Brawler, and Paragon ships carry the 'Universal' slots, that's a terrible selection.  While the Medusa and Paragon are no doubt good, there hard to get and the other two are rather rubbish. 

It's simply not possible to do something hilarious like make a frigate that has a Tachyon laser, which disappoints me greatly.



The problem is that it's too subtle and is imprecise.  Actually armor is a total, each ship has a certain amount of armor on different points of the ship.  So it can be quantified it just hasn't been done.



I have almost all the ships I mainly use at elite level, they're nigh invulnerable unless severely outmatched.  They're only bad at prioritizing targets which can easily be fixed by issuing a 'Strike' order for your ship (Which by the way there needs to be a lot more tactical options).  The only quirks I've seen with the elite AI is that they sometimes don't activate shields on minor collisions (Which do less than ten damage) when not in combat and sometimes firing off missiles and turning at the same time.  Besides that they're just as good if not better at maneuvering the shields and the ship than me at elite rank.  Speaking of maneuvering, try to make your ship come to a complete halt with absolutely no drift at all.  You'll find this is very hard, but the computer does it all the time.  While certainly not cheating, the AI can do a lot that a player simply cannot do in terms of reflexes.


That's because the AI only works within the parameters in which it was programmed.  Unless it's one of those fancy AI's that possess artificial curiosity and the ability to learn than of course it won't because it cannot learn or adapt to the task needed.


There is a priority list, it however will randomly choose which is the most fit if you have say.... 5 of the same fighter or frigate.  To the point where you'll have ships cross by each other because one started on the left and is heading right and vice versa which is incredibly annoying.  If you try to add multiple commands ships randomly switch what they're doing.





Chesse is a finite game, while complex it is finite making it much more easy to program you dont really need AI you just need massive computing power to try every possible combination. (thats basically what the current AI is, but its getting more complex in being able to rule out options and speed up the whole process.)

At any rate, i can and do outpreform the AI on a constant basis, and alex as stated the AI has no advantage over the player meaning they set up autofires just like us and can only control 1 weapon group at a time not on auto fire and that weapon group behaves just like one manual controled by the player. Ya i cant fire my pd weapons better then the autofire can, so i let the auto fire do it... but i can most cerntainly control my antimatter blasters or larger slower rate of fires alot better then the ai can. I am better at leading fast targets, knowing when not to fire beacuse of flux issues and when to fire based on the enemies state. The AI in this game is great but it needs a bit of a tweak its really bad at sheild managment when near full flux and it also does not like to take armor damage when it should to maximize firepower.

You dont know the exact amount of armour you have left but you get a good idea of what the state of your armor is like and that is indeed a graphical indicator what you are asking for is a numerical indicator (so dont shoot someone down for saying there allready is a graphical indicator) and i think thats not a good idea as armour is not just a chunk of points that has to go to 0, there would be no meaningfull way to represent this as a number since every bit of hull has its own amount of armor so having 1000 armor left means nothing if they are shooting you where you dont have any armor left, and the current "graphical" indicator shows us where we have armor. I think adding a numerical armor indicator like you asked would confuse things and actually provide little info if any that is actually usefull.

In your 15 battles to replace a loss statement you are forgeting that you can capture ships that are now free (minus a small marine and supply cost)... Factor in those numbers when you are doing your how many battles it takes to recover calculations. Its allready painfully easy to build a giant ass fleet and i am hopeing in the next realease it becomes harder. Personaly what i would like is to be able to capture more ships but have more costs asociated with capturing and repairing them so i can get access to more ships but have to make decisison on what ones i want and what ones should be skuttled. as it sitts right now you can have a good fight and double your fleet value (or more) that seems outragous.

There is nothing wrong with having ideas, i just disagree with some of the precieved problems you have with this game.


They indeed can do things that players cannot realistically do, you need to play with the elite AI some more.  The elite AI is pretty good at shield management with a few quirks I mentioned above.  I found that regular/green AI was about as dumb as bricks, but the Elite AI was about as tactical or better than I was, even possessing good flanking ability.

Even if that is the case that they can only use one at a time, that doesn't mean they can switch between weapons within a few milliseconds of each other. 


As for how armor could be better indicated?




Currently armor is either Green or Gray, some more variations between those points would help tell you how much armor is left.  Could start as blue (undamaged), green (>75%), yellow (>50%), orange (>25%), red (<25%) and grey (0%).
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Dreyven

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2012, 08:09:23 PM »


Only the Medusa, Shuttle, Brawler, and Paragon ships carry the 'Universal' slots, that's a terrible selection.  While the Medusa and Paragon are no doubt good, there hard to get and the other two are rather rubbish.  

this has been discussed to a great extend, it's really hard to justify universal slots, especially bigger ones...
story wise (in terms of different era's not having acces to certain technology)
balance wise (cookie cutter... the flak weapons are the best PD you can get, the antimatter has the highest burst etc.)
it actually takes variety from the game, if you are not forced to do otherwise you will start to only use your favorite 1 or 2 weapons, also the ships start to feel less unique...

how much it actually makes sense...
one of the mods has a frigate with 4 small universal slots in it...
i noticed that this doesn't really add anything, you are more or less forced to use certain weapons anyways
4 energy weapons doesn't make sense at all, they cost waaay too much flux to be viable
4 ballistic weapons might be, but why would you? you could take the lasher and have 5 + 2 missiles
2 weapons and 2 missiles seems legit but it's basically what other ships offer aswell
4 missiles runs out of steam too fast
combining energy and ballistic weapons doesn't make too much sense


It's simply not possible to do something hilarious like make a frigate that has a Tachyon laser, which disappoints me greatly.

it's really hard to justify something like that in the actual game... this would require a frigate with a large mount... how do you balance that?
you would need to create a ship that has a large energy mount but it wouldn't have anything else...
it would be incredible weak against... anything that comes close to it (because the only energy weapons a frigate could support with it's weak flux values would be the long range support type of weapons and the autopulse cannon... and even the autopulse generates quite some flux and isn't even really good on it's own)

however, if you want it... there's a mod that has it
i think it's starfarer extended which features a frigate with a large mount
the energy one is kinda not fun, but the one with the large ballistic mount is quite good (actually quite OP :P)



The problem is that it's too subtle and is imprecise.

i think my main question would be...
y do you want and/or need something like that?
i don't really see a use for it...


I have almost all the ships I mainly use at elite level, they're nigh invulnerable unless severely outmatched.

well, i would guess that you are not supposed to have a lot of elite crew and that in the real game it will be hard to get enough elite crew for more than 1 or 2 ships...
i bet you only have that much because you are camping the spawn for ages ...


Speaking of maneuvering, try to make your ship come to a complete halt with absolutely no drift at all.  You'll find this is very hard, but the computer does it all the time.

nothing more easy than that... press and hold C


There is a priority list, it however will randomly choose which is the most fit if you have say.... 5 of the same fighter or frigate.  To the point where you'll have ships cross by each other because one started on the left and is heading right and vice versa which is incredibly annoying.  If you try to add multiple commands ships randomly switch what they're doing.

i think that alex has said something like "the AI also takes into account which ship could be the first to arrive at the target"
also different objectives have different priorities... that's probably which does the switching...


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Icelom

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 01:47:06 AM »


They indeed can do things that players cannot realistically do, you need to play with the elite AI some more.  The elite AI is pretty good at shield management with a few quirks I mentioned above.  I found that regular/green AI was about as dumb as bricks, but the Elite AI was about as tactical or better than I was, even possessing good flanking ability.

Even if that is the case that they can only use one at a time, that doesn't mean they can switch between weapons within a few milliseconds of each other. 


As for how armor could be better indicated?




Currently armor is either Green or Gray, some more variations between those points would help tell you how much armor is left.  Could start as blue (undamaged), green (>75%), yellow (>50%), orange (>25%), red (<25%) and grey (0%).

I know i am better at piloting then the ai, because only i can keep fragile ships alive. i give the ai the robust ones.

You are dividing the armor up into "zones" again its down to very small hit locations thats a tone of coloured zones that will not be usefull at all you cant just carve a ship into 8ths or whatever someone will see oh its yellow on my front get hit for direct hull damage there because in that spot of that colour zone there is no armour... To me that would be endlessly fustrating right now i can quickly asses where my armour is weak and where it is not i really dont think it needs to be changed.

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Degraine

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 03:00:59 AM »

As for how armor could be better indicated?



Currently armor is either Green or Gray, some more variations between those points would help tell you how much armor is left.  Could start as blue (undamaged), green (>75%), yellow (>50%), orange (>25%), red (<25%) and grey (0%).
A slightly more distinctive palette for tracking armour levels is something I can get behind. There's just something about the way it looks right now that doesn't catch my eye when chunks of armour are getting blown off. Maybe I just need to remember to look down there more often during a fight.
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Deathven

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2012, 04:52:26 PM »

As for how armor could be better indicated?



Currently armor is either Green or Gray, some more variations between those points would help tell you how much armor is left.  Could start as blue (undamaged), green (>75%), yellow (>50%), orange (>25%), red (<25%) and grey (0%).
A slightly more distinctive palette for tracking armour levels is something I can get behind. There's just something about the way it looks right now that doesn't catch my eye when chunks of armour are getting blown off. Maybe I just need to remember to look down there more often during a fight.

Wow, isnt that from Starcraft?
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Alex

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2012, 04:58:15 PM »

Speaking of maneuvering, try to make your ship come to a complete halt with absolutely no drift at all.  You'll find this is very hard, but the computer does it all the time.  While certainly not cheating, the AI can do a lot that a player simply cannot do in terms of reflexes.

Real quick note: press and hold 'C'.
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Deathven

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2012, 05:04:01 PM »

Speaking of maneuvering, try to make your ship come to a complete halt with absolutely no drift at all.  You'll find this is very hard, but the computer does it all the time.  While certainly not cheating, the AI can do a lot that a player simply cannot do in terms of reflexes.

Real quick note: press and hold 'C'.

Yep! That would do it! Thank you always Alex for your hard work!
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Reshy

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2012, 06:45:55 PM »


Wow, isnt that from Starcraft?

Yes it is, the wireframe from the dropship to be precise.  I like it because it splits up the ship into several segments, which could be done with armor for when it's damaged or not as it's likely that they're alreayd split up into segments, just that they're undefined.




Real quick note: press and hold 'C'.


Whoops, that's a case of bad reading on my part.  I made some of those mistakes on my OP so feel free to disregard them if they're wrong.







this has been discussed to a great extend, it's really hard to justify universal slots, especially bigger ones...
story wise (in terms of different era's not having acces to certain technology)
balance wise (cookie cutter... the flak weapons are the best PD you can get, the antimatter has the highest burst etc.)
it actually takes variety from the game, if you are not forced to do otherwise you will start to only use your favorite 1 or 2 weapons, also the ships start to feel less unique...

how much it actually makes sense...
one of the mods has a frigate with 4 small universal slots in it...
i noticed that this doesn't really add anything, you are more or less forced to use certain weapons anyways
4 energy weapons doesn't make sense at all, they cost waaay too much flux to be viable
4 ballistic weapons might be, but why would you? you could take the lasher and have 5 + 2 missiles
2 weapons and 2 missiles seems legit but it's basically what other ships offer aswell
4 missiles runs out of steam too fast
combining energy and ballistic weapons doesn't make too much sense



it's really hard to justify something like that in the actual game... this would require a frigate with a large mount... how do you balance that?
you would need to create a ship that has a large energy mount but it wouldn't have anything else...
it would be incredible weak against... anything that comes close to it (because the only energy weapons a frigate could support with it's weak flux values would be the long range support type of weapons and the autopulse cannon... and even the autopulse generates quite some flux and isn't even really good on it's own)

however, if you want it... there's a mod that has it
i think it's starfarer extended which features a frigate with a large mount
the energy one is kinda not fun, but the one with the large ballistic mount is quite good (actually quite OP :P)



i think my main question would be...
y do you want and/or need something like that?
i don't really see a use for it...


well, i would guess that you are not supposed to have a lot of elite crew and that in the real game it will be hard to get enough elite crew for more than 1 or 2 ships...
i bet you only have that much because you are camping the spawn for ages ...


Speaking of maneuvering, try to make your ship come to a complete halt with absolutely no drift at all.  You'll find this is very hard, but the computer does it all the time.

nothing more easy than that... press and hold C

i think that alex has said something like "the AI also takes into account which ship could be the first to arrive at the target"
also different objectives have different priorities... that's probably which does the switching...


[/quote]


Well this is modifying, why not allow you to 'upgrade' slots to larger or change what type they are?  Same with the OP, why can't we pay money to expand it a little bit.  One issue I will note that really should be fixed is that sometimes turrets have really restrictive firing arcs which destroys a lot of customizability due to the turret's inflexability.  You can also add an omni shield emitter to a ship without any shields at all, which is rather counter-intuitive.

Uniqueness does have something to do with it, however I doubt you could upgrade your entire fleet like I suggest without effectively having completed the campaign anyway.  There's also no real issue of it appearing in Missions as you're forced to use whatever variant they give you.  However if there are already weapons that are undoubtedly 'better' than people are going to use them as often as they can anyway, so the uniqueness doesn't really seem to justify to me as a reason not to do it because you already sort of can, it's just heavily restricted.  If anything that means that weapon balance needs to be worked on more than anything as if there's a weapons that is just 'better' than anything else at the same rank than either other weapons are too weak, or that weapon is too strong.


As for variation, why not two pulse/burst lasers, two PDs, and add more flux vents?  What about two ion cannons and two PD's as a ship designed to take down shields with high reliability.  Etc.


On the topic of a Tachyon Lance on a frigate, if you're willing to put a 25,000$ gun on a 8000$ ship than all the more power to you.  It's an end-game weapon (currently anyway) so at that point why not?




Any idea how much armor I lost?


Also, I'm aware of the priorities, however they are assigned pretty randomly.  I can have a ship right next to a place I want defended, then if I change it to assault the ship will move away while another ship half way across the map will take it's place.  That's the problem I have.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 06:55:40 PM by JamesRaynor »
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Deathven

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2012, 07:03:48 AM »


Wow, isnt that from Starcraft?

Yes it is, the wireframe from the dropship to be precise.  I like it because it splits up the ship into several segments, which could be done with armor for when it's damaged or not as it's likely that they're alreayd split up into segments, just that they're undefined.


I thought so, awesome RTS.


But, regarding the "upgradeable slots", wouldn't that be just a little over powered if a frigate had, lets say, the ability to attach some sort of very large ordinance to it?

By the way, I completely agree with you on the assignment priorities.
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Reshy

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2012, 09:52:21 AM »


Wow, isnt that from Starcraft?

Yes it is, the wireframe from the dropship to be precise.  I like it because it splits up the ship into several segments, which could be done with armor for when it's damaged or not as it's likely that they're alreayd split up into segments, just that they're undefined.


I thought so, awesome RTS.


But, regarding the "upgradeable slots", wouldn't that be just a little over powered if a frigate had, lets say, the ability to attach some sort of very large ordinance to it?

By the way, I completely agree with you on the assignment priorities.


In 'Missions' yes, but you cannot actually customize ships.  In the campaign it can be balanced out with upgrade cost.  For example on a frigate it might cost 2000 credits to upgrade a slot to medium, and it might cost an additional 5000 to upgrade it to large.  Then you'd need to likely buy increased OP in order to carry the weapon which could have a cumulative cost, like upgrading a ship's OP by 5 might be 2500 credits, then by 5 more 5000 credits, another 5 could be 7500, and so on.  The more overpowered the ship is the more expensive it will be.  So you can't make an army of lashers carrying Gauss cannon, but you might be able to make one or two 'elites' that have them.


Example:
Gauss Cannon:  8400 Credits

Upgrading to Medium:  2000 Credits

Upgrading to Large:  5000 Credits

Upgrading OP by 5:  2500 Credits

Upgrading OP by 10:  5000 Credits

Upgrading OP by 15:  7500 Credits

Upgrading OP by 20:  10000 Credits

Overall cost:  40,400 credits for modifications.  You could easily buy a nice cruiser or destroyer for that price.

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Dreyven

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2012, 11:31:55 AM »

In 'Missions' yes, but you cannot actually customize ships.  In the campaign it can be balanced out with upgrade cost.  For example on a frigate it might cost 2000 credits to upgrade a slot to medium, and it might cost an additional 5000 to upgrade it to large.  Then you'd need to likely buy increased OP in order to carry the weapon which could have a cumulative cost, like upgrading a ship's OP by 5 might be 2500 credits, then by 5 more 5000 credits, another 5 could be 7500, and so on.  The more overpowered the ship is the more expensive it will be.  So you can't make an army of lashers carrying Gauss cannon, but you might be able to make one or two 'elites' that have them.


Example:
Gauss Cannon:  8400 Credits

Upgrading to Medium:  2000 Credits

Upgrading to Large:  5000 Credits

Upgrading OP by 5:  2500 Credits

Upgrading OP by 10:  5000 Credits

Upgrading OP by 15:  7500 Credits

Upgrading OP by 20:  10000 Credits

Overall cost:  40,400 credits for modifications.  You could easily buy a nice cruiser or destroyer for that price.



i am sceptical... balancing ship upgrades with credits doesn't sound right...
as long as there are infinite enemies, thus infinite amounts of farmable money sources you will always end up with ridicoulous stuff...

i think that other suggestions, like modding Mounts costs OP or! that modding your ship heavily increases it's DP is more balanced
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imperialus

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2012, 07:04:05 AM »

In 'Missions' yes, but you cannot actually customize ships.  In the campaign it can be balanced out with upgrade cost.  For example on a frigate it might cost 2000 credits to upgrade a slot to medium, and it might cost an additional 5000 to upgrade it to large.  Then you'd need to likely buy increased OP in order to carry the weapon which could have a cumulative cost, like upgrading a ship's OP by 5 might be 2500 credits, then by 5 more 5000 credits, another 5 could be 7500, and so on.  The more overpowered the ship is the more expensive it will be.  So you can't make an army of lashers carrying Gauss cannon, but you might be able to make one or two 'elites' that have them.


Overall cost:  40,400 credits for modifications.  You could easily buy a nice cruiser or destroyer for that price.

So why not buy a cruiser or destroyer then?  It seems to me as though it could reach the point of stupidity very quickly.  I mean remember you have a ship with extremely heavy ordinance crammed into a frigate hull.  It'd be like putting a 16 inch gun battery on a PT boat.  Big guns go on big ships for a reason.  Hell, in space assuming we're even nodding in the direction of Newton, a large kinetic weapon would probably fire a small ship backwards with more force than its thrusters could put out.  Likewise a large energy weaon would likely be too big of a drain on a small ships power supply.
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Deathven

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2012, 04:24:53 PM »

In 'Missions' yes, but you cannot actually customize ships.  In the campaign it can be balanced out with upgrade cost.  For example on a frigate it might cost 2000 credits to upgrade a slot to medium, and it might cost an additional 5000 to upgrade it to large.  Then you'd need to likely buy increased OP in order to carry the weapon which could have a cumulative cost, like upgrading a ship's OP by 5 might be 2500 credits, then by 5 more 5000 credits, another 5 could be 7500, and so on.  The more overpowered the ship is the more expensive it will be.  So you can't make an army of lashers carrying Gauss cannon, but you might be able to make one or two 'elites' that have them.


Overall cost:  40,400 credits for modifications.  You could easily buy a nice cruiser or destroyer for that price.

So why not buy a cruiser or destroyer then?  It seems to me as though it could reach the point of stupidity very quickly.  I mean remember you have a ship with extremely heavy ordinance crammed into a frigate hull.  It'd be like putting a 16 inch gun battery on a PT boat.  Big guns go on big ships for a reason.  Hell, in space assuming we're even nodding in the direction of Newton, a large kinetic weapon would probably fire a small ship backwards with more force than its thrusters could put out.  Likewise a large energy weaon would likely be too big of a drain on a small ships power supply.

Agreed, I mean, why stop at anything lower than capital ship? You could upgrade capital ships then too.
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Reshy

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Re: Suggestions & Feedback regarding the Campaign
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2012, 03:29:54 PM »

In 'Missions' yes, but you cannot actually customize ships.  In the campaign it can be balanced out with upgrade cost.  For example on a frigate it might cost 2000 credits to upgrade a slot to medium, and it might cost an additional 5000 to upgrade it to large.  Then you'd need to likely buy increased OP in order to carry the weapon which could have a cumulative cost, like upgrading a ship's OP by 5 might be 2500 credits, then by 5 more 5000 credits, another 5 could be 7500, and so on.  The more overpowered the ship is the more expensive it will be.  So you can't make an army of lashers carrying Gauss cannon, but you might be able to make one or two 'elites' that have them.


Overall cost:  40,400 credits for modifications.  You could easily buy a nice cruiser or destroyer for that price.

So why not buy a cruiser or destroyer then?  It seems to me as though it could reach the point of stupidity very quickly.  I mean remember you have a ship with extremely heavy ordinance crammed into a frigate hull.  It'd be like putting a 16 inch gun battery on a PT boat.  Big guns go on big ships for a reason.  Hell, in space assuming we're even nodding in the direction of Newton, a large kinetic weapon would probably fire a small ship backwards with more force than its thrusters could put out.  Likewise a large energy weaon would likely be too big of a drain on a small ships power supply.


Because cruisers cost more OP and are slower, but they are more durable.  They'd also cost more to upgrade because of the additional slots on board.  I mean do you fight all your battles with just cruisers and capital ships?  I don't, mainly because the game revolves around capture points.
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