Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Wyvern]

So, with the upcoming conversion of (some?) drones from ship systems to built-in fighter LPCs, I've started to think about other ship systems that could be converted into weapons.

EMP emitter: This basically is a weapon; the only reason to keep it as a ship system is because it locks out other guns from firing.  Is that behavior really needed?  Would this be better as a weapon, with some other ship system being installed on the Omen and the Shade?  Could it be made a weapon and still keep that behavior?

Flares: Several mods introduce flare weapons, and those work just fine.  They would work slightly better if we could set a weapon group to fire when we hit its number rather than selecting, though.  (That'd be a nice feature for missiles, too.)  On the other hand, flares-as-ship-system provide a nice low-impact system for when we don't want to give a ship anything too exciting.

I'm putting this thread in discussions rather than suggestions, because I'm not at all sure converting these to weapons would actually be a good idea; I just want to toss the idea out there and see what discussion comes of it.

[Megas]

EMP emitter: This basically is a weapon; the only reason to keep it as a ship system is because it locks out other guns from firing.  Is that behavior really needed?

It seems to be intended.

I get annoyed to no end when it EMPs everything I need then the ship stays helpless discharging at nothing for a few more seconds because my ship cannot shoot.  Shade can phase cancel, but Omen is stuck.  This is one reason why I consider EMP Emitter a junk ship system, possibly worse than other detrimental ship systems like Accelerated Ammo Feeder.

P.S.  The one ship system I think would work better as a built-in hullmod is the Gryphon's missile forge system.  However, Alex prefers it as a system and gave his reasons.

[Thaago]

Accelerated ammo feeder is an excellent system. It lets you put more damage into the enemy in a faster amount of time, all the while lowering the amount of flux/shot of the firing ship. The system turns the Lasher into a monster. It helps the Hammerhead considerably, but the ship has too poor base flux stats to be truly good.

Flares are interesting, because as they stand they have limited charges, and if they were weapons then the consistent option would be infinite ammo. Which, considering a decent reload time, I think is just fine.

[Harmful Mechanic]

Also, the problem with flares is that you need to be able to deploy them instantly with a keypress for them to have utility. Screwing around in fire groups would defeat the purpose. (Not that I don't love aftermarket flares; they're a good option to have, but clearly second-best).

Something like the EMP Emitter is more arguable, but one of the things I like about it is that I can use it as a sort of 'hold fire, go defensive' command, a bulwark against finisher missiles and fighter swarms. Also good to have available at a single, consistent keypress.

I think any complex weapon that needs to be strictly employed probably benefits from being made a ship system rather than a weapon mount. Especially if it has multiple linked launchers, or needs to be available instantly.

[Megas]

Accelerated ammo feeder is an excellent system. It lets you put more damage into the enemy in a faster amount of time, all the while lowering the amount of flux/shot of the firing ship. The system turns the Lasher into a monster. It helps the Hammerhead considerably, but the ship has too poor base flux stats to be truly good.

That is the problem.  The ships that have the ammo feeder system have bad flux stats, bad enough that even the flux discount from the system does not help enough.  The only weapons Lasher can use comfortably with the ammo feeder are mortars and LMGs (and Vulcans).  If ship tries to use multiple assault ballistics (LAG, AC, railgun, needler) without additional OP and maybe greater than max vents, flux will be maxed quickly.  This is why I call Lasher a machine gun boat, because it, at least under AI control, does not have the flux stats to use other weapons very effectively without killing itself with the ammo feeder.  As for Hammerhead, its base capacity is so bad (barely more than Enforcer) that is needs to pump capacitors to not max flux quickly once it starts fighting and taking hits on shield.  Unlike Enforcer, Hammerhead does not have enough OP, even with max OP, to get sufficient flux stats without sacrificing weapons and hullmods.  Other (three) combat destroyers with max OP have enough OP to not make such hard choices.

[Cycerin]

It's probably easier for most people to hit the hotkey for ship system than it is to navigate weapon groups, toggle autofire or fire manually.

[TaLaR]

Or Alex could just add keybindings to fire a weapon group without switching. Would be useful for missiles in hardpoints (you are already facing enemy, that's as much targeting as needed for most missiles) and any undirected weapons, if they ever appear.

[Deshara]

Also it'd be useful for dedicated alpha-strike weapons, and weapons with severely limited ammo supply or weapons that you never want being left on auto-fire but also don't want to control
A lasher's kinetic shield-breakers, a kite's backup LAG, a Falcon's dual-hammers.

Also,

Accelerated ammo feeder is an excellent system. It lets you put more damage into the enemy in a faster amount of time, all the while lowering the amount of flux/shot of the firing ship. The system turns the Lasher into a monster. It helps the Hammerhead considerably, but the ship has too poor base flux stats to be truly good.

That is the problem.  The ships that have the ammo feeder system have bad flux stats, bad enough that even the flux discount from the system does not help enough.  The only weapons Lasher can use comfortably with the ammo feeder are mortars and LMGs (and Vulcans).  If ship tries to use multiple assault ballistics (LAG, AC, railgun, needler) without additional OP and maybe greater than max vents, flux will be maxed quickly.  This is why I call Lasher a machine gun boat, because it, at least under AI control, does not have the flux stats to use other weapons very effectively without killing itself with the ammo feeder.  As for Hammerhead, its base capacity is so bad (barely more than Enforcer) that is needs to pump capacitors to not max flux quickly once it starts fighting and taking hits on shield.  Unlike Enforcer, Hammerhead does not have enough OP, even with max OP, to get sufficient flux stats without sacrificing weapons and hullmods.  Other (three) combat destroyers with max OP have enough OP to not make such hard choices.

That's why I love the ammo accelerator. It doesn't actually do any good with weapons that are already flux ineffective but gives a ship the ability to mount low-output flux-effective weapons that frequently don't have the alpha output to otherwise go toe-to-toe with a ship armed with LAGS and needlers. Have you ever taken a brawler armed with a pair of mortars and a pair antique cannons and pounded a lasher's face in with it? It's really satisfying. If we had a few more of the ye-old-timey flux-efficient low-output guns I'd actually actively ask for a modified ammo feeder system that sacrifices the flux boost for more reusability to SPECIFICALLY be used on old, outdated ships that are min-maxed for their flux reserves to be untouched by their armament

[Megas]

I used light mortars in pre-0.6 versions when I can buy a Lasher before I can buy LAGs.  It works, but it is still annoyingly underpowered.  I prefer LAGs and no ship system over mortars and ammo feeder.  Ammo feeder works great with machine guns.  Combined with Safety Override, Lasher does one job very well - machine gun boat.  It does not use other assault weapons well due to flux buildup.  Well, Lasher can use other weapons decently if the player has Flux Dynamics 10 and pumps vents to 15 or more.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

Or Alex could just add keybindings to fire a weapon group without switching. Would be useful for missiles in hardpoints (you are already facing enemy, that's as much targeting as needed for most missiles) and any undirected weapons, if they ever appear.

Would love such a feature for mixed gun/missile loadouts.

[Solinarius]

Or Alex could just add keybindings to fire a weapon group without switching. Would be useful for missiles in hardpoints (you are already facing enemy, that's as much targeting as needed for most missiles) and any undirected weapons, if they ever appear.

Been wanting that for such a long time.