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[Midnight Kitsune]

Hell I'm already limited since the AI will almost always close to knife fight range so why would I give them long range guns?

I think you got it the wrong way, the engagement range the AI chooses is dependent on it's weapon loadout.  If you only give it long range weapons it will keep its distance (sufficient mobility provided).

That's the thing that I'm talking about with the loss of builds! You can't build a ship the way YOU want it, you have to build a ship in a way the AI can use it, meaning that most of the experimental builds can only happen on your ship even though they really only work/ are fun to use on AI ships

[Alex]

It's a question of what opponents you're facing, which is I believe what Gothars is getting at.

If you're facing shieldless enemies, for example, then an "EMP support" role is a thing. If there's a lot of fighters, or an enemy is very missile-heavy, then dedicated PD may be worth it. There are a few other configurations that could be specialized into, provided the right kind of enemy existed. Right now, enemies don't specialize very much, and so balanced, can-handle-anything player ship designs are more optimal.

I know that you are not a fan of hard-counters, Alex, and that's not what I'm suggesting. You can still beat those opponents with a general purpose fleet, but it would take much more ships on your side. At least some dashes of the stone-paper-scissors principle would help to mix things up in a good way, I believe.

The thing I don't want to do is force the player to redesign their ships often due to this kind of thing. If you go to war with, say, the Luddic Church and their fleets are light on shields - that's one thing. If you're encouraged to redesign from encounter to encounter, that's something else.

But, yes, been thinking along similar lines myself, but more in terms of differentiating factions. Will have to see how it plays out.


(Boy, this is getting awfully off-topic.)

[FooF]

You mentioned the core worlds will be "set" but as we explore further and further out, are there (for lack of better term) "levels" or "depth" of just how far out from inhabited space you are? For example, you have the core worlds, the vicinity just beyond them (that the player needs to explore for their own information), the region beyond that where the current factions may still be exploring/exploiting, and then perhaps a swath of systems that haven't been touched since the Domain-era and no one really knows about.

A part of me wants both the comfort of knowing that I haven't "gone off the map" yet (i.e. still colonies/outposts to trade with and whatnot) but if I really want to, I can be the "first" to explore a system, perhaps even planting a Hegemony flag on it if I were so incentivized. If the procedural generation doesn't have an internal logic to it, it breaks the immersion. I wouldn't want to go from a system that seems unexplored, travel seemingly further from civilization and find a  system teeming with every faction. 

If that makes sense.

[Dri]

Just imagine it: you're exploring one of the most distant, hard to reach systems in game and your exploration/salvage fleet flies up to a planet and suddenly something blips into sensor range! A capital sized ship, long dormant! With your max salvage skills you manage to successfully board and reactive its essential systems! It's revealed the ship was a part of some hyperspace jumping experiment gone wrong!

BAM! After dumping hundreds of supplies to repair it you are now the proud owner of an ancient, powerful and unique capital ship from a long lost era! Man, that'd be totally awsome for something like that to be one of the high-end rewards for exploration/salvage!

[Serenitis]

Oh my....
So much yes.
Exploration is probably one of my favourite things in games, so this is looking to be rather fun.

Are salvaged/found items going to be random commodities, or is there going to be equipment in there as well?
Is it going to be possible to "find" usable/repairable hulls?
Is there going to be "unique" things to find that can't be obtained any other way?

A little sad to hear the hull regen perk is going away, as that is one of the best tools for keeping AI friends alive.
But overall, just imagine me turning purple then jumping round in a circle saying "yes" repeatedly. I might even knock some things over, but I won't even notice because yes.

[Alex]

You mentioned the core worlds will be "set" but as we explore further and further out, are there (for lack of better term) "levels" or "depth" of just how far out from inhabited space you are? For example, you have the core worlds, the vicinity just beyond them (that the player needs to explore for their own information), the region beyond that where the current factions may still be exploring/exploiting, and then perhaps a swath of systems that haven't been touched since the Domain-era and no one really knows about.

A part of me wants both the comfort of knowing that I haven't "gone off the map" yet (i.e. still colonies/outposts to trade with and whatnot) but if I really want to, I can be the "first" to explore a system, perhaps even planting a Hegemony flag on it if I were so incentivized. If the procedural generation doesn't have an internal logic to it, it breaks the immersion. I wouldn't want to go from a system that seems unexplored, travel seemingly further from civilization and find a  system teeming with every faction. 

If that makes sense.

Yeah, that makes sense. Procedural generation naturally will try to follow some kind of internal logic for what goes where; I'm sure it'll produce something funky now and again, but it'll aim for things that "make sense" in general. (And it won't produce "teeming" systems in the first place!)

Just imagine it: you're exploring one of the most distant, hard to reach systems in game and your exploration/salvage fleet flies up to a planet and suddenly something blips into sensor range! A capital sized ship, long dormant! With your max salvage skills you manage to successfully board and reactive its essential systems! It's revealed the ship was a part of some hyperspace jumping experiment gone wrong!

BAM! After dumping hundreds of supplies to repair it you are now the proud owner of an ancient, powerful and unique capital ship from a long lost era! Man, that'd be totally awsome for something like that to be one of the high-end rewards for exploration/salvage!

Yeah, I like the sound of that

Are salvaged/found items going to be random commodities, or is there going to be equipment in there as well?

There'll be weapons, at least. Possibly some other things. Pure commodities aren't super exciting right now, but for example heavy machinery will have more meaning now that it's used for surveying and salvage. Hopefully a few others will follow suit.

Is it going to be possible to "find" usable/repairable hulls?

Maybe

Is there going to be "unique" things to find that can't be obtained any other way?

Also maybe? One thing about that is if it's something that's vital to have, then it's probably not a good idea to rely on the RNG serving it up, so I'd expect there would be some reliable (but more expensive?) ways of obtaining those kinds of things. But something unique and non-vital (i.e. a custom ship?), that could very well happen.

But overall, just imagine me turning purple then jumping round in a circle saying "yes" repeatedly. I might even knock some things over, but I won't even notice because yes.

[Alex]

Also the inferral of perhaps more powerful drones that you may come across in, say, more Special Circumstances.

I've just re-read almost all the Culture Series books, I can't stop myself thinking like this anymore.

Ahhh yes. Those are some good books; I should re-read them. (Have you read "Against a Dark Background"? Also Banks, and also really good; read it due to David recommending it a while back.)

Several like this in the blog post - nice, simple additions that hit bang-on with the current flavour of the world and the game and should only add to the experience.

Not quite sure what you mean here - maybe there's a word missing or something? I mean, I get the general drift, but even so.

[Gothars]

The thing I don't want to do is force the player to redesign their ships often due to this kind of thing. If you go to war with, say, the Luddic Church and their fleets are light on shields - that's one thing. If you're encouraged to redesign from encounter to encounter, that's something else.

Makes sense. So, you're saying the factions will be further differentiated in their loadouts and fleet compositions?

An approach I could imagine is that for battles where you need a fleet (e.g. faction wars) loadouts have to rarely change, but battles where you only need a ship (if you do it right) can require more variation, since you can just select the most apropriate ship. For example, while big pirate fleets remain relatively well-rounded, small pirate fleets could be very specialzed in different ways (missile, fighter, . Then you can of course take out those small fleet with your whole fleet, but you can also be more cost-efficient and choose just the one of your specialist ships thats strong against their special. That would give those specialzed ships a reason to exist, without requiering frequent re-design. 

For me at least the cases were I defeated an enemy very efficiently because I had just the right tools were a lot of fun.

 

[Troll]

One huge leap after another. Two updates with large content addition and mechanics, nice.
I really like where it goes.

Just imagine it: you're exploring one of the most distant, hard to reach systems in game and your exploration/salvage fleet flies up to a planet and suddenly something blips into sensor range! A capital sized ship, long dormant! With your max salvage skills you manage to successfully board and reactive its essential systems! It's revealed the ship was a part of some hyperspace jumping experiment gone wrong!

BAM! After dumping hundreds of supplies to repair it you are now the proud owner of an ancient, powerful and unique capital ship from a long lost era! Man, that'd be totally awsome for something like that to be one of the high-end rewards for exploration/salvage!

Any X player thinking of the Aran here (X3 TC more precisely)?

[Cycerin]

Haha, unique hulls and weapons would be fun. For some reason my brain automatically goes to Diablo-style prefixed modifier hulls and weapons. Ancient Ceremonial Onslaught. Retrofit Reverse-Engineered Hypervelocity Driver of Smiting.

Not what the game needs, but yeah, the dangling carrot of finding something unique (even if it isn't strictly better) would be good.

[Alex]

Makes sense. So, you're saying the factions will be further differentiated in their loadouts and fleet compositions?

Not exactly "will", but it's one of many many things that had been discussed internally at one point and viewed in a positive light

That'd be good, right? If we're talking about something that's a "fun multiplier" for combat, that mixes it up and gets more mileage out of it - without even fundamentally changing it - that sounds like a lot of bang for the buck.

An approach I could imagine is that for battles where you need a fleet (e.g. faction wars) loadouts have to rarely change, but battles where you only need a ship (if you do it right) can require more variation, since you can just select the most apropriate ship. For example, while big pirate fleets remain relatively well-rounded, small pirate fleets could be very specialzed in different ways (missile, fighter, . Then you can of course take out those small fleet with your whole fleet, but you can also be more cost-efficient and choose just the one of your specialist ships thats strong against their special. That would give those specialzed ships a reason to exist, without requiering frequent re-design. 

For me at least the cases were I defeated an enemy very efficiently because I had just the right tools were a lot of fun.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying here. Counterpoint: by the time you've got multiple ships and can afford to have some of them be specialized (meaning, you're sacrificing total fleet strength!), you're probably not very interested in fighting small pirates. It might still happen, but is it a case worth building for?

Right now, the low-end pirate ships are designed so that each variant is different to play against, with different strengths and weaknesses, but stuff that's meant to be (mostly) overcome tactically. I think that turned out pretty well, especially if one looks at pirates as sort of an introduction to tougher fights. Changing small pirate fleets to be specialized would largely throw this out.

Ancient Ceremonial Onslaught.

... is it wrong that I want one?

[Megas]

Rather than find ancient ships and weapons of domination, I prefer to find blueprints or autofactories that let me build modern ships and weapons of domination.

[Alex]

Rather than find ancient ships and weapons of domination, I prefer to find blueprints or autofactories that let me build modern ships and weapons of domination.

Well yes, that's the Responsible thing to do design-wise.

[Serenitis]

It would be quite a lot of fun if sometimes in hidden places you could find little add-on things you could bolt on to a ship to enhance it.
Find a "mysterious device" and it prompts you to pick a ship to attach it to, and when you do it gives that ship a buff to doing a certain thing.
Have the boost given determined when the loot is spawned so savescumming does nothing.
(I can think of so many boosts this could give....)

Ahhh yes. Those are some good books; I should re-read them. (Have you read "Against a Dark Background"? Also Banks, and also really good; read it due to David recommending it a while back.)

It would be p. cool (and amusing) if you could work in a band of solopsist mercenaries somewhere.

[mendonca]

Several like this in the blog post - nice, simple additions that hit bang-on with the current flavour of the world and the game and should only add to the experience.

Not quite sure what you mean here - maybe there's a word missing or something? I mean, I get the general drift, but even so.

Huh, yeah it does read a bit like a chat-bot or something, I guess.

Maybe I have always been a chat-bot?

It was just that the new features; of themselves; don't appear particularly complicated additions (at face value, at least). They don't really add much content or change the game too much when taken individually and treated simply.

Like the debris field; big deal it's just a different way to get to the salvage screen.
Automated drones; big deal it's just another poxy new entry-level enemy.
Procedural systems; whatever we got mods to do that.
&c.

But in each point - there is something in addition to just being simple new toys ... in that they are implemented sufficiently cleverly and carefully that you can almost feel the self-reinforcing, reverberant nature of all the new things bouncing off each other AND the current iteration of the game as we know it.

There's kind of a feeling about it ... It just makes me feel like it's all going to 'work'.

(Have you read "Against a Dark Background"? Also Banks, and also really good; read it due to David recommending it a while back.)

You know what, I haven't. I read  'The Algebraist' (awesome) pretty much immediately after David's literary blog-post; but then that just got me sucked in to finishing off all the Culture stuff after remembering how much I enjoyed Banks. It'll go next on the list though, cos why not?