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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Nexerelin v0.9.6c "Earth and Sky" (update 2020-03-28)  (Read 1139769 times)

Ogaburan

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1815 on: December 23, 2018, 02:44:53 PM »

for me personally, the faction warfare is the main thing i care about, so i would prefer barebones functional version of that as soon as it is ready, without it i feel like i have no real context for what to do with my fleet after it has gotten out of the early game, helping a faction take over the world on starfarer difficulty (for that -25 own faction diplomacy) provided necessary context for me in the past, with the new updates and lack of nexerelin i have already done everything there is to do in vanilla so im just waiting for the main feature of nexerelin to come to 0.9 at this point
THIS, was just about to post the exact same thing...
Spoiler

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For me, context is one of the few things this game lacks.
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Singrana

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1816 on: December 23, 2018, 05:29:01 PM »

as a little follow up to my comment about context, one type of context the game HAD was the fact that in order to sustain the supply cost of a large fleet you kinda had to risk it in battle to make the monies you need, in battle you may lose your stuff and be knocked down to the early-game AGAIN, having to sometimes play the early-game multiple times stretched the game out a lot for me, and the TERROR of losing a big fight and getting knocked down again added a lot of WEIGHT to those fights, now however, many fancy ships and weapons need blueprints to be found much, so they require a colony, but once you have a colony you have so much passive income that you can just directly rebuild your late-game army should you lose it (also btw, late-game fights are not by themselves as fun to FLY as mid-game fights, they are only satisfying for me in the sense that the fleet i have worked hard through challenges is now finally paying off, watching swarms of strike-craft obliterating enemies is quite cathartic). i think colonies should have their maximum net income restricted with some kind of progressive income tax, say making an infinitely good colony generate 200K monthly, but conversely a bad colony should have its potential net loss limited in the same way to -200K
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Histidine

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1817 on: December 24, 2018, 03:55:53 AM »

I've almost gotten it to a barebones update level (despite certain distractions). Playtesting should still take some time, but with a bit of luck a beta release should be available circa mid-January.

Hmm, I think an income tax would be a good solution to the problem of excess player markets once the player starts conquering the sector (+ removing the stability penalty for exceeding the limit). Better than the ideas I had, at any rate. Thanks for the mention!
Although I probably won't mess with the colony economy directly for the first iteration, and most likely not until Starsector 0.9.1.
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Singrana

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1818 on: December 24, 2018, 04:57:31 AM »

well by all means, if a technically playable version exists i want to playtest it, i stream my starsector and im quite patient at trying out pretty much everything in "new games", at any rate i could at least thumbs up or thumbs down it in terms of fun compared to last nexerelin version, basically as long as factions conquering is in i would be interested
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Hazard

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1819 on: December 24, 2018, 04:58:48 AM »

Who'd be the entity collecting the tax, though? Especially later on, when your economic and military strength becomes equal to the biggest players in the sector or even stronger.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1820 on: December 24, 2018, 05:21:47 AM »

Who'd be the entity collecting the tax, though? Especially later on, when your economic and military strength becomes equal to the biggest players in the sector or even stronger.
I'm interpreting "tax" as a metaphor that explains how it's calculated (as % of profits), the one I have in mind would actually be presented to the player as an "inefficiency overhead" or somesuch. A literal tax would obviously not work, especially once the player starts looking for a way to refuse to pay.

(The specific idea I have is multiplying net market income by something like 0.9x for each market the player has over their personal administration cap, so 3 too many markets would be 72.9% income. You could still have a handful of hyper-profitable colonies and give the rest away to independents or somesuch, but as mentioned I'll wait to see what effect Alex's 0.9.1 changes have.)
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Hazard

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1821 on: December 24, 2018, 06:21:22 AM »

Ah, I see.

Well, I'm certainly looking forward to the update. The Sector always feels so quiet without Nexerelin. ;)
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Singrana

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1822 on: December 24, 2018, 07:15:12 AM »

regarding the "too much money from planets" issue, just a single colony making 500 000 a month in net (sometimes negative tho since it loses and gets harassed sometimes) is more than enough to ruin vanilla i find, so a 0.9 multiplier per EXTRA MARKET with no other changes to colonies would still essentially not touch my problem, but ofc in nex you will have things to pay for (suggestion to make invading planets for factions not pay a bounty, only COST you, since you are spending your capital to change the political landscape, should probably be an intrinsic goal instead of an instrumental goal)

also another thing, just nerfing all colony income in general (or having penalties for controlling too many markets (vanilla already has the stab penalty that is similar to the 0.9 per market thing)) only further forces the player to only colonize the best possible planets, where as reducing all uppkeep, and reducing all market share income equally could curb the excessive money without ruining 200 hazard worlds
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 07:30:05 AM by Singrana »
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Harpuea

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1823 on: December 25, 2018, 07:04:35 AM »

Please keep humanizing elements such as prisoners, saboteurs, and agents. I really like small aspects that make the game feels more alive rather than just ships and number. Vanilla game is wholesale slaughter of enemy combatants without even a mention of what happens to the defeated.
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grinningsphinx

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1824 on: December 28, 2018, 01:16:45 PM »

as a little follow up to my comment about context, one type of context the game HAD was the fact that in order to sustain the supply cost of a large fleet you kinda had to risk it in battle to make the monies you need, in battle you may lose your stuff and be knocked down to the early-game AGAIN, having to sometimes play the early-game multiple times stretched the game out a lot for me, and the TERROR of losing a big fight and getting knocked down again added a lot of WEIGHT to those fights, now however, many fancy ships and weapons need blueprints to be found much, so they require a colony, but once you have a colony you have so much passive income that you can just directly rebuild your late-game army should you lose it (also btw, late-game fights are not by themselves as fun to FLY as mid-game fights, they are only satisfying for me in the sense that the fleet i have worked hard through challenges is now finally paying off, watching swarms of strike-craft obliterating enemies is quite cathartic). i think colonies should have their maximum net income restricted with some kind of progressive income tax, say making an infinitely good colony generate 200K monthly, but conversely a bad colony should have its potential net loss limited in the same way to -200K

Id prefer not to mess with the economy like this until the games been out quite awhile....you will definitely NOT be rebuilding a 250+ fleet right away, and in Nexerlin, the system threats will be much greater then what it is currently.
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Alphascrub

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1825 on: December 28, 2018, 05:31:16 PM »

Who'd be the entity collecting the tax, though? Especially later on, when your economic and military strength becomes equal to the biggest players in the sector or even stronger.
I'm interpreting "tax" as a metaphor that explains how it's calculated (as % of profits), the one I have in mind would actually be presented to the player as an "inefficiency overhead" or somesuch. A literal tax would obviously not work, especially once the player starts looking for a way to refuse to pay.

(The specific idea I have is multiplying net market income by something like 0.9x for each market the player has over their personal administration cap, so 3 too many markets would be 72.9% income. You could still have a handful of hyper-profitable colonies and give the rest away to independents or somesuch, but as mentioned I'll wait to see what effect Alex's 0.9.1 changes have.)

I think a increased tax/expense system would be a great idea. I had some ideas but overall it seems like it would be a ton of work to implement any of them but ill go ahead and spit ball them out there cause why not.

 
Operation costs for friendly fleets (fuel, supplies, crew salary, fleet tech level ect)

More expensive colony structures (200k battle-station destroys 600k fleet? No repair cost? How did that shity little station take two onslaughts out anyway?)

Greater limits to what you can build on a colony (This colony mines, refines things and produces fuel, this colony makes food and trains crew, this colony builds ships and weapons, ect)

Building requirements based on population (Super high tech maxed out battle-station = size 8 colony).  
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 05:35:33 PM by Alphascrub »
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grinningsphinx

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1826 on: December 30, 2018, 08:54:13 AM »

Thank you for your work Histidine!

Id venture to say that nex is the most core mod of SS.


Could you tell us a little about how nex is going to work under the new format?
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McTrigger

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1827 on: December 30, 2018, 09:05:56 PM »

Update when?
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1828 on: December 30, 2018, 09:55:12 PM »

When it is done.

Histidine

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Re: [0.8.1a] Nexerelin v0.8.4b "War and Peace" (update 2018-09-30)
« Reply #1829 on: December 31, 2018, 07:23:40 PM »

yup!

Could you tell us a little about how nex is going to work under the new format?
Not much is going to change, at least for the initial release. Some stuff has been updated to be consistent with vanilla 0.9 behaviours (e.g. invasion and vengeance fleets will have advance notification before actually spawning) and the intel system also makes some UI enhancements possible, like this.

I've also tweaked the player invasion mechanic a bit, and merged the faction membership system into commissions (so there's no separate join/leave faction handling, it's all done by taking a commission).

Some fancy new features are on the cards, but they're some ways off.
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