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[Nanostrike]

I think I already mentioned this - that's not how it works.

If you issue an intercept order on the enemy fighter, *one* of your nearby fighter wings (or fast frigates) will break off and go after it. If you need to beef if up, you could use a direct order to add another ship to the mix.

If the system worked that way, it'd be amazing.  But it doesn't, unfortunately.  The problem tends to arise when the AI makes really questionable decisions, forcing you to use your Command Points to correct AI oversights rather than to enhance your strategy.

Lets take the intercepting fighters example.  I've given my capture orders and such, everything in the fleet is moving.  But out of nowhere, a bomber wing appears on the left flank.  I give the Intercept order...and it assigns a seemingly random Frigate from across the map to intercept them.  I would much rather have my nearby Talon Wing or Point Defense Frigate do that, because they can certainly do it a hell of a lot better than my Brawler Gunship.

If you're gonna have the really general stuff, you need to tweak the AI, so that it realizes that Point Defense Frigates and Fighters are better interceptors than Assault Gunships.  Or that my Close Support Frigate would be better at striking a Carrier than my Point Defense Frigate.  IMO, the best way to do that would be to let the player add "Tags" to ships before a battle.  "Tag" a wing of fighters as Interceptors so they prioritize enemy fighters and bombers.  "Tag" a Frigate as Attack, Close Support, Assault, Point Defense, ect.  So the AI would know what it's best at when auto-assigning.

And, for the love of god, stop making AI-controlled Fighter Wings ignore Bombers/Torpedo Bombers and charge at Capital Ships that they can't hurt.


The Command Point limit is the biggest issue.  You can't correct bad AI decisions without wasting several Command Points.  I cringe when I see my Talon Wing targeting a capital ship, my Carrier trying to intercept a pack of Frigates, or my Pirhana Bombers trying to Intercept a wing of Broadswords...

Other issues that need addressed:

1) Damaged ships don't seem to know when they need to get out of the fight.  I frequently have to order Fighter Wings to manually Repair and Refit because they won't do it on their own when they're all almost dead.  They tend to wait until only 1 ship remains before repairing, even if all 3 ships have almost no hull left.  Crippled frigates have similar behavior.  I've never seen them retreat on their own.

2) Specific orders regarding Fighters.  "Fighter Screen" for capital ships instead of general Escort (Would make the assigned fighters prioritize enemy bombers and fighters attacking the ship they're screening over any other threats.), and "Intercept Strikecraft" or something similar would be good for telling available Fighters or Point Defense Ships to intercept instead of assigning a random ship.

3) Some sort of self-preservation setting for ships that are heavily damaged or crippled.  Or at least some notification that they're taking heavy damage.  Currently, you can manually retreat them, but I usually don't even notice they're in trouble until they're dead.

4) The Command Points seem really arbitrary.  If someone wants to play the Command System a ton to strategically win battles, he should be able to do that without having to work around the Command Point System.  It really feels like just tacked on difficulty.  A nice fix for this would be making Assign Task not cost Command Points.  You'd be able to bolster orders and specify what you want each ship to do.  And counteract bad AI choices (No, Talon Wing, you shouldn't intercept that Onslaught).  Hopefully officers and character skills should help that, but it definitely needs tweaked.

5) Once an order is completed (IE: A ship retreated, a fighter wing repaired, a target you specified is destroyed), getting the Command Point back after an order is successfully carried would be a nice way to ensure that you can keep assigning points.  Perhaps add some sort of Character-Based skill that does that if you design your character in that way?

[Iscariot]

Escort, as an order, currently just doesn't work, according to Alex.

Regardless, I would rather have 'escort' and 'intercept' work than eliminate command points and the conservative command system with it. Personally, I've never had a problem with the intercept order, but I agree that it could probably be refined if the AI could increase or decrease its determination to stay and fight depending on the disposition you order them to take up, ie 'fight to the last man', 'retreat when necessary', or 'flee at first contact'.

[Alex]

If the system worked that way, it'd be amazing.  But it doesn't, unfortunately.  The problem tends to arise when the AI makes really questionable decisions, forcing you to use your Command Points to correct AI oversights rather than to enhance your strategy.

Lets take the intercepting fighters example.  I've given my capture orders and such, everything in the fleet is moving.  But out of nowhere, a bomber wing appears on the left flank.  I give the Intercept order...and it assigns a seemingly random Frigate from across the map to intercept them.  I would much rather have my nearby Talon Wing or Point Defense Frigate do that, because they can certainly do it a hell of a lot better than my Brawler Gunship.

That... doesn't happen. The Brawler will be way down on the priority list for an intercept, as the suitability is based largely on the ship's speed. The intercept order also weighs how long it will take something to get there, so the "across the map" assignment should not happen either.

If you're gonna have the really general stuff, you need to tweak the AI, so that it realizes that Point Defense Frigates and Fighters are better interceptors than Assault Gunships.

Already does that. It'll prefer more PD-capable ships for an intercept (making the aforementioned Brawler example even less likely). Now, I'm assuming what you're talking about actually happened, and you're not just making up a random example for the sake of making a point - I'd love to see what the map looked like for that assignment. A Brawler getting assigned from across the map when an interceptor wing is nearby is all but impossible - the only scenario I can see is if all the nearby ships already had direct orders, and couldn't break off for an intercept (which has higher priority than just about anything else).

And, for the love of god, stop making AI-controlled Fighter Wings ignore Bombers/Torpedo Bombers and charge at Capital Ships that they can't hurt.

I think you'll like the new escort behavior, then - fighter wings will stay by your ship and actively intercept incoming fighters and missiles.

Also - interceptors already preferentially target nearby fighters and bombers.

And counteract bad AI choices (No, Talon Wing, you shouldn't intercept that Onslaught).
... or my Pirhana Bombers trying to Intercept a wing of Broadswords...

Ok, now you *are* making stuff up!

I do appreciate you taking the time to offer your feedback, though. I just want to note that if you refrain from exaggerating, it'll be more useful in improving the game

[Sordid]

The intercept order also weighs how long it will take something to get there, so the "across the map" assignment should not happen.

I can verify that it indeed does happen. Not very often, but once in a while it does.

[Alex]

The intercept order also weighs how long it will take something to get there, so the "across the map" assignment should not happen.

I can verify that it indeed does happen. Not very often, but once in a while it does.

Mind taking a screenshot when it does? It's hard for me to picture how it'd happen in the absence of direct orders to all the suitable nearby ships, so seeing it would be really helpful.

Edit: I mean specifically with a slower ship, poorly suited ship. A faster ship getting assigned from across the map can make sense if it gets there faster (or a little later, but is better for the job). Though any screenshots of assignment oddities are welcome.

[Sordid]

I'll keep an eye out for it. Knowing my luck, it's not going to happen again to me, ever.

[icepick37]

A faster ship getting assigned from across the map can make sense if it gets there faster (or a little later, but is better for the job).

Yeah I've seen this a lot. It can be annoying when your talons are nearly at a capture point, then a lasher gets assigned instead as your talons go intercept some bomber wing. But I also appreciate that I now would rather that happen, and if not I can make the assignments. Running out of CP's is bad, but if you set up your early game right, you can usually soldier though late battle okay. (since you'll get more from captures)

[arwan]

i would like to see my fighters also escort bombers. as much as my own ship.. or other ships in my fleet that should have fighter escorts... like carriers.

[ArthropodOfDoom]

Alright, so, the point of this game is that each ship has individual captains, which is great, because it reduces the requirement of micromanagement! I, too, hated the system originally, until I realized that, in campaign, you rarely use up all your points, and it works pretty well for being able to tell people what to do (and the AI usually doing a damn good job of it), and then taking a zippy little flagship and ramming some AM blasters into a capital ship's pooper.

[Abyss]

If the system worked that way, it'd be amazing.  But it doesn't, unfortunately.  The problem tends to arise when the AI makes really questionable decisions, forcing you to use your Command Points to correct AI oversights rather than to enhance your strategy.

Lets take the intercepting fighters example.  I've given my capture orders and such, everything in the fleet is moving.  But out of nowhere, a bomber wing appears on the left flank.  I give the Intercept order...and it assigns a seemingly random Frigate from across the map to intercept them.  I would much rather have my nearby Talon Wing or Point Defense Frigate do that, because they can certainly do it a hell of a lot better than my Brawler Gunship.

That... doesn't happen. The Brawler will be way down on the priority list for an intercept, as the suitability is based largely on the ship's speed. The intercept order also weighs how long it will take something to get there, so the "across the map" assignment should not happen either.

That happens in all my random battle games.  The AI will pull capping/patrolling lashers/hounds/talons from across the map, and swap priorities with a perfectly capable ship that was right next to me.  Controlling points is extremely important since there's so many units (multiple cap ships), and a simple intercept command will mess up positioning enough to cost the game.

If you're gonna have the really general stuff, you need to tweak the AI, so that it realizes that Point Defense Frigates and Fighters are better interceptors than Assault Gunships.

Already does that. It'll prefer more PD-capable ships for an intercept (making the aforementioned Brawler example even less likely). Now, I'm assuming what you're talking about actually happened, and you're not just making up a random example for the sake of making a point - I'd love to see what the map looked like for that assignment. A Brawler getting assigned from across the map when an interceptor wing is nearby is all but impossible - the only scenario I can see is if all the nearby ships already had direct orders, and couldn't break off for an intercept (which has higher priority than just about anything else).

It doesn't take into account enough information.  It doesn't factor in the level of danger involved in completing its task.   Last game, the AI wanted to pull a backcapping Hound I had across the map, to fly through through 2 Onslaughts surrounded by 4 Enforcers.  Also, say I have a Wolf with gravitons/3 tacs (something that annihilates fighter wings) close by.  It'll assign the talon wing I had capping instead, and swap their places.  It won't just swap the places of those two units, but it will affect a chain of units, that I had placed all over the map since all their priorities shift.

Another example is when it assigns a wasp wing to intercept a Xyphlos wing (guaranteed casualty) instead of the pulse/Antimatter tempest (guaranteed win).

[Steven Shi]

Just to clarify, the AI assigns ships to follow your fleet command based on their weapon load-out correct?

Is it possible to dictate the role (or multiple roles) of individual ship in the refit window thus overriding the current AI selection criteria? For example, AI regards my cruiser armed with a High Intensity Laser as support but what I really want is to use it to obey my 'Strike' command. Currently you can only do so by individually assign orders but it's quite frustrating and uses up a lot of unnecessary command points.

This should solve situations like when AI chooses to 'Intercept' with a fighter wing half a map away instead of using a closer frigate simply because the frigate might not have the ideal weapons.   

[Gaizokubanou]

Though any screenshots of assignment oddities are welcome.

Do you see that Tempest all the way to the top?  I gave it direct order to defend sensor array alpha, yet it kept moving up north east to fight an enemy.  Worst part is, it kept moving with shields down while missiles were battering it down.  It made me rage because it's pretty common with frigates and only solution I found was to simply order all smaller ships to retreat after they cap control points.

Another problem is when you order a unit to retreat, it'll try to make it out of the map using shortest distance... even if it means it's going through every enemy ships.

[Iscariot]

You have a control order on Sensor Array Alpha, not a defend order.

[Gaizokubanou]

You have a control order on Sensor Array Alpha, not a defend order.

You are right, still, there is that suicidal charging into missile and awful retreat pattern but that's something else.

I wish assignment was more than just adding a ship to existing order...

[Iscariot]

From what I've seen of Tempest behavior, they tend not to raise their shields because with engine boost on, they can outburn every missile in the game. It's kind of infuriating, actually. A lot of times, I'd rather an enemy Tempest keep their shields up and overload so I can pound it into dust than drop its shields, take a few hits, and burn out of my range. Especially since a Tempest with a veteran crew and improved thrusters moves 250  base, and 300 with the engine boost.