Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Adraius]

Firstly, thanks for maintaining this list!

I don't have enough experience with capital ships to confidently suggest a a change (this is my first capital ship, captured it), but is the Renegade really tier 2? Sure, it has multiple large turrets and a bunch of smalls, but the large ones are arranged so you can't get more than two on one side of the ship, and the majority of the smalls have horrendous arcs.  It's biggest asset, I've found so far, is a prodigious ability to soak damage while my smaller ships kill its attackers.

Also, the Lightning Phase Bomber doesn't appear on the list, although I can guess where it'll be placed. =)

[Dark.Revenant]

It's cheap, and it's one of the most effective battlecruisers.  It does exactly what you want it to do: stay alive, and keep the enemy busy.  Sure, it's not flexible, but it does that role so well that I think it counts as a T2.

[Cycerin]

It's just really cost-effective. Not only do you get a flight deck, but you get a lot of artillery power from the large/med missile, and it can cover every flank with some form of long-range fire. In addition you have the Burst Drive which gives the ship the ability to get away from incoming torpedo strikes, and lets it reach the front line together with your cruisers/destroyers. Plus the fact it's just generally tough to kill, and doesn't have an obvious weak spot like the other big low-tech ships.

I designed it to have focus fire as its major lack, but it can still deliver some okay concentrated fire with either broadside. Its weakness is being focused by a tough, powerful ship like a Dominator, Dictator or Aurora, or large amounts of bombers. Ultimately its just a jack of all trades ship which also aids it in the tier list, as less well-rounded ships tend to be more situational. Renegade can be used in any fleet with the logistics to spare for it.

[Schwartz]

Firewall PD Wing should be tier 3 or 4. Gladius and Broadsword can both beat it without losses in an even fight.

[Dark.Revenant]

It used to be a lot better.

[Abradolf Lincler]

Why was  the Apogee moved to tier 3? It is my favorite ship and is worthy of tier one if not tier 2.

[Megas]

Recent gameplay changes, such as ballistics gaining unlimited ammo and all ships gaining peak performance.  In earlier versions, Apogee can solo fleets as long as it takes to do the job while Dominator and Eagle can run out of ammo before finishing off a defense fleet.  Now, something like Dominator (or even Eagle) can outfight the Apogee (and not necessarily Dominator vs. Apogee, but comparing Dominator vs. fleet and Apogee vs. fleet), and the Apogee cannot rely on time or the enemy running out of ammo anymore like it used to.

[Toxcity]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. While the tier list is a great resource it doesn't take into account all factors (hullmods available, character skills, etc.).

[Abradolf Lincler]

Recent gameplay changes, such as ballistics gaining unlimited ammo and all ships gaining peak performance.  In earlier versions, Apogee can solo fleets as long as it takes to do the job while Dominator and Eagle can run out of ammo before finishing off a defense fleet.  Now, something like Dominator (or even Eagle) can outfight the Apogee (and not necessarily Dominator vs. Apogee, but comparing Dominator vs. fleet and Apogee vs. fleet), and the Apogee cannot rely on time or the enemy running out of ammo anymore like it used to.

When I flew the apogee I didn't rely on the enemy running out of ammo, I rekt their faces with my super awesome shield and pulse lasers!

[Megas]

That works, but if it did not, and the enemy did not use energy weapons, waiting until the enemy ran out of ammo was an option.  Also, if you want to solo big fleets with ballistics ship, most of them could not do it in one battle, and even if the ship could, you had to conserve ammo when possible, especially stuff like Vulcans.

In the old days, high-tech had indefinite stamina, unlimited ammo, and good shields and specials, despite lousy shot range.  Today, low-tech and most midline have better stamina than high-tech (unlimited ammo, longer peak performance), and can outrange high-tech (most outrange every non-beam energy weapon).  The best low-tech/midline ships have mobility systems that let them keep up with or outspeed otherwise faster high-tech ships.

Apogee is a solid ship, but it lost the advantages it once had.

[CrashToDesktop]

When I flew the apogee I didn't rely on the enemy running out of ammo, I rekt their faces with my super awesome shield and pulse lasers!

Megas doesn't do anything like the rest of us do them.  If it can be exploited, he does it.  Don't bother trying to say anything other than that to him.  It's really not worh the effort.

[Schwartz]

Even without taking the changing metagame into account, the Apogee is not really better than the Aurora, for example. Apogee's got a large mount but two awkward small mounts as well as mediums all the way in the back of the ship. It also has worse flux stats. I've always preferred the Aurora because it can be fitted more comfortably and it's one of the best tanks. I'd probably peg them both as T2. Some modded ships like Tartarus will outgun and outshield them, but for vanilla they're hard to beat.

And for comparison, would you rather field a Nevermore? It deals nice damage but is way more prone to blow up. Even the Heron made it into T2, being as OP-starved as it is. So yeah, I'd say Apogee and Aurora would deserve a T2 spot.

[Megas]

Aurora is rightly placed in Tier 3.  It does one thing very well (Reaper spam) but is sub-par at everything else.

Aurora's weaknesses are the following:

• Destroyer level firepower if missiles are ignored.
• Non-missile mounts are limited to inferior energy mounts.
• Not very mobile despite above average top speed for a cruiser.  (In other words, not fast enough.)
• Sub-par armor and hull.

If you do not want missiles, two Medusa is more effective than one Aurora because they have more firepower and have relatively better defenses (smaller, faster, tough shield, and phase skimmer to avoid taking hits).

Also, if you make the AI fight itself with low-tech ships vs. Aurora, Aurora gets kited and mauled because blasters have terrible range, and it is squishy without its shield.

Aurora is extremely powerful when armed with Reapers and piloted by player with max Missile Specialization.  Just launch Reapers at ships and watch them explode.  Blasters are something to do between Reaper launches.

[Megas]

@ Schwartz:  Agreed on Apogee, especially the awkward mounts.  Apogee is also slower than Aurora.  If the player wants cruiser-level firepower from it, the Apogee needs to give up PD and be driven near point-blank range of enemy ships to get the medium mounts in range.  Its shield is powerful enough to enable this.  If the player wants to kite with Apogee instead, it has destroyer-level firepower at best.  The most annoying thing with Apogee is that large missile mount pointed at an angle.  It is nearly impossible to use Reapers effectively with it.  It is stuck with homing missiles (MIRVs or Pilums) or just leave it empty and spend OP elsewhere.

As a playership, I would pick the Nevermore.  It is very fast for a cruiser (above average speed plus mobility system), it can kite like an Eagle with long-range weapons, and its main gun packs a torpedo-level punch.  True, it is squishy.  I am not sure how well the AI uses the Nevermore.  As a playership, it is comparable with the best stock cruisers (but not outrageous like the Templar's Paladin - that monster is like a mini-Paragon).

[Schwartz]

You don't mention that the Aurora has such massive flux stats that it can fire heavy blasters for way longer than a destroyer and most other ships its size. With heavy blasters in particular, it's less about how many you can fit and more about for how long you can comfortably handle firing them. As such I don't find that the Aurora is light on energy mount firepower at all.

I don't mind the missile angles. MIRVs are truly excellent and sustainable in .65. Yeah, I like the Nevermore as well if it's a carefully piloted player ship. I'm just arguing that firepower alone shouldn't determine a tier. You can turn an Aurora (or an Apogee) into a fortress, which is excellent for NPCs.