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Author Topic: Markets  (Read 54048 times)

firemagelynn

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Re: Markets
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2014, 06:55:08 AM »

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These dev blogs are really well written and I'm thinking about making a tiny web game based purely on this trade simulation thing ^_^

A single system in your game is complex enough for someone to make a whole new game out of the idea! haha (although trade simulations surely aren't new)
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firemagelynn

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Re: Markets
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2014, 08:25:53 AM »

<speculation>
  • Regional Capital : ++tarifs ++stability
  • Orbital Station : ++fuel.use
  • Military Base : ++hand_weapons.use
  • Autofactory – Heavy Industrial : ++supplies.production ++metals.use --food.production
  • Organics Complex : ++food.production
  • Orbital Burns ++fuel.use ++volatiles.use --food.production : ships activating sublight engines while in orbit?
  • Jungle World : ++food.production
</speculation>
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Thaago

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Re: Markets
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2014, 10:39:12 AM »

...

Say I'd really need a lot of supplies, either for my fleet or for a client. To drive down the price I would have to interrupt Jangala's supply export to main supply buyer X, so local stockpiles increase (become green) and the price drops, right? My options to do that are what? Intercepting outgoing fleets with destination X? Arrange for X to get their supplies from another source? Blockade X? Would any of this generate an event?

Or, say I found a good trade source to buy food from. Can I just intercept the incoming fleet from Tartessus and drive the price up that way?

...


It strikes me that to do a lot of these things the player is going to need a better way of interacting with the universe than just combat. Then again the framework for that is already in place with the dialog system - there just needs to be a whole lot of content made for it.


I am personally against an 'unfolding UI' that is unlocked by skills because I am worried that it would create a 'I have to grind until I can play how I want' scenario. I also enjoy figuring out how systems like this work on my own and am annoyed when I think the game is 'babying' me, but I may be a bit odd in that respect.
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Megas

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Re: Markets
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2014, 12:00:22 PM »

Quote
I am personally against an 'unfolding UI' that is unlocked by skills because I am worried that it would create a 'I have to grind until I can play how I want' scenario.
I feel this way already, with my level soft cap in the upper 30's, but my desired power level in the upper 40's to mid 50's.  Skill choices are already stretched thin, and I expect more skills to come as Leadership and Industry get filled out.

That said, the Navigation skill does this already.  Player does not have Navigation 7, he cannot use stars as portals.  I would not be surprised if more skills featured similar unlocks.
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Alex

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Re: Markets
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2014, 03:45:11 PM »

Without any further info, I interpret orbital burns as being an exposure to radiation, in that sense. Maybe limits growing of food, stifled immigration, hard population limit, something along those lines.

Nope! That one's near impossible to guess, though. And is also very cool.


...

Say I'd really need a lot of supplies, either for my fleet or for a client. To drive down the price I would have to interrupt Jangala's supply export to main supply buyer X, so local stockpiles increase (become green) and the price drops, right? My options to do that are what? Intercepting outgoing fleets with destination X? Arrange for X to get their supplies from another source? Blockade X? Would any of this generate an event?

Or, say I found a good trade source to buy food from. Can I just intercept the incoming fleet from Tartessus and drive the price up that way?

...


It strikes me that to do a lot of these things the player is going to need a better way of interacting with the universe than just combat. Then again the framework for that is already in place with the dialog system - there just needs to be a whole lot of content made for it.

Yeah, that's very much the case. For example, the way to drive prices down would be a blockade, but what does that mean in game terms, and would the planet even trade with you, perpetrator of said blockade, after that? (Interrupting trade lanes to a consumer might not make a difference; other consumers would pick up the slack unless that consumer was the only big one). I don't have a detailed answer at the moment, but am very much thinking about this in the same terms - i.e., how exactly can the player interact with this?

There are many ways to go with that, and I think the system itself is amenable to such interaction; it's a question of nailing down the specifics. The other part is providing the player with the necessary information to act; that's what I was getting at when talking about the commodity detail panel not necessarily being final.


Oh, and I noticed that there a breaks in both the symbol rows for hand weapons and crew. What's that about, used vs. stockpiled resource?

"Local supply/stockpiles used locally" vs "excess local supply/stockpiles".


And maybe, instead of "buy price"/"sell price", you could write "You sell for"/"You buy for". As it is now, its ambiguous who the seller or buyer is in each case. Not that it's hard to guess what is meant, but I find myself pausing after reading it.

Where do you mean? I don't see that on either of the two screenshots in the post. Or do you mean in the tooltip? There, it's the credits you get/pay for moving the item to the other side of the trade screen; that *seems* fairly clear. Adding the "You" somehow sounds odd to my ear.

Can't wait. Is that non-Hegemony flag a Sindrian flag? Or does it just mean "neutral"?
Placeholder - it's actually the flag of an entirely different faction, which for now is just used everywhere where there isn't a finished faction flag.

The Coalition? :)

Sort of, but with a different name. Still, chalk up another good guess for you.


I am personally against an 'unfolding UI' that is unlocked by skills because I am worried that it would create a 'I have to grind until I can play how I want' scenario. I also enjoy figuring out how systems like this work on my own and am annoyed when I think the game is 'babying' me, but I may be a bit odd in that respect.

Yeah, that's definitely a concern.

That said, the Navigation skill does this already.  Player does not have Navigation 7, he cannot use stars as portals.  I would not be surprised if more skills featured similar unlocks.

I think there's a qualitative difference between that, and locking away parts of the core UI. "Adding different ways of interacting with a thing where you already expect to see a set of options for interacting with it, and probably don't expect it to be a fixed set" vs "locking away parts of a clearly pre-designed UI". I feel like I'm not articulating this very well.
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Alex

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Re: Markets
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2014, 03:51:57 PM »

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What travesty of a language is this??? Kidding, kidding. Hi, and welcome :)


<speculation>
  • Regional Capital : ++tarifs ++stability
  • Orbital Station : ++fuel.use
  • Military Base : ++hand_weapons.use
  • Autofactory – Heavy Industrial : ++supplies.production ++metals.use --food.production
  • Organics Complex : ++food.production
  • Orbital Burns ++fuel.use ++volatiles.use --food.production : ships activating sublight engines while in orbit?
  • Jungle World : ++food.production
</speculation>

Pretty good - a little of hit and miss in every guess. Except for Orbital Burns; no-one's getting that one.
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Toxcity

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Re: Markets
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2014, 04:25:28 PM »

Will the screen for buying ships be revamped along with the trade screen?

Also how many new factions will be in the update?
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Doom101

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Re: Markets
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2014, 04:39:05 PM »

normally i just drool over these blog posts because i love this game and i'm blinded by it's awesomeness pretty easily. HOWEVER
today i shall take upon myself the challenge of figuring out what this "orbital burns" is.

I've done some research on basically everything involving orbits and or burns before this post...
So, let me load up my speculation shotgun here...


1. the station has thrusters , False, Gothars already suggested it

2. ships activate sublight engines in orbit, false, firemagelynn suggested it

3. going too close to the planet is illegal or impossible due to some reason, possibly a highly volatile atmosphere

4. the Station unlike everything else in the game so far, does NOT orbit around it's planetary or solar body and remains stationary in relation to it, such as a geosynchronous station here on earth except requiring fuel to maintain this position

5. The planet itself has had massive thrusters attached to it allowing it to change it's orbit around the sun ( a longshot is an understatement here) requiring insane amounts of fuel like a black hole of fuel.

6. the orbit (space) is literally on fire at all times, not necessarily true fire but some form of damaging gasses, or nebulae causing ships and stations to require much larger quantities of supplies and decreasing stability

7. Widespread Space std's? ( you really don't want to know what my research led to for this one.... but you should never rule out anything just because of the core concept but only once you have proof of it being false) populations require WAY more medical supplies and has a massive negative impact on production of all goods. but there is lots of cheap crew around to hire....

8. the inverse of 4, the station moves very rapidly around it's planetary or solar body making it hard to dock to?

9.Alex hasn't decided yet thus its impossible to guess.

i realize some of these make either little sense or wouldn't impact gameplay very much but hey thats the point of a shotgun, to cover all the bases. at the moment these are all i can think of, i shall return though with more ideas if all of these turn out fruitless.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Markets
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2014, 04:53:52 PM »

I'm going to fancy a guess on Orbital Burns - it may or may not have to do with the waste product of the Orbital Station.  I'm going to say it increases fuel consumption (if hyperspace fuel could possibly be used to burn waste ;D), increases volatile production, but adds stability to the station.  Just an out-of-the-box speculation.

And I think Eos shall be the name of our new, asteroid-rich system, where we'll get to play around with our new frigate carrier. :D
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frag971

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Re: Markets
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2014, 04:54:41 PM »

Good question. I don't have a good answer quite yet. I will say that I don't feel strange about XP being used to improve areas the XP wasn't gained through though, that's just how this sort of system works. Systems that force you to use skills (or at least areas of skills) to improve them have their own problems.
Maybe change the way skills leve up? What about selecting one skill in each tree/section and every XP earned is split between them. But learning new skills require some sort of schematics, manuals or data slices or whathaveyou...

Say i select Damage Control, Fleet Logistics, Flux Dynamics and whatever industry skill there will be. I win a battle and get 10000 exp: Each of those skills get +2500 exp to fill the bar and raise a rank. I still need to unlock other skills to be able to assign exp gains to them. At the start of the game we can chose one skills per tree. No need for character levels or aptitude points.

Now, affecting planets in some way would earn you exp and while it would improve how my crew shoots at enemies they don't suddently learn Autoloader Reprogramming because the player earned phat cash in a trade.

Pretty good - a little of hit and miss in every guess. Except for Orbital Burns; no-one's getting that one.
My guesses:
1. "Orbit" is a new gameplay map mode where the player enters a planet's orbit where it has the station and new gameplay elements. It is used in station gameplay, mining/exploration, etc...
2. It is a new skill that reduces the penalty for being near a planet or even speeding up in a gravity well. The most likely.
3. Some sort of pagan space wickerman festival.
4. When you add insult to injury in an NPC conversation... from orbit.
5. A skill or module that allows the ship to reach full speed instantly when leaving a planet.
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BillyRueben

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Re: Markets
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2014, 04:56:16 PM »

Except for Orbital Burns; no-one's getting that one.

And now I have to chime in.

Outpost to outpost "fast travel"?
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Toxcity

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Re: Markets
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2014, 04:58:44 PM »

Maybe Orbital Burns has something to do with the system's star?
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Gothars

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Re: Markets
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2014, 05:18:02 PM »

Without any further info, I interpret orbital burns as being an exposure to radiation, in that sense. Maybe limits growing of food, stifled immigration, hard population limit, something along those lines.

Nope! That one's near impossible to guess, though. And is also very cool.

Ok, another guess: The station is in low orbit and in constant friction with the upper atmosphere, dragging a trail of fire across the sky! No idea what that would mean for the market, though...

Except tourism! Put a marshmallow on a stick, then hold it out of a window - voila, a tasty "Orbital Burn"! ;)



And maybe, instead of "buy price"/"sell price", you could write "You sell for"/"You buy for". As it is now, its ambiguous who the seller or buyer is in each case. Not that it's hard to guess what is meant, but I find myself pausing after reading it.

Where do you mean? I don't see that on either of the two screenshots in the post.

Second screenshot, on the right, under the description of "food". Something like "Buys for"/"Sells for" would also work to make the direction clear, more or less.


I think there's a qualitative difference between that, and locking away parts of the core UI. "Adding different ways of interacting with a thing where you already expect to see a set of options for interacting with it, and probably don't expect it to be a fixed set" vs "locking away parts of a clearly pre-designed UI". I feel like I'm not articulating this very well.

Yeah, it's like adding a bullet point to a list vs. cutting out part of a picture.
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David

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Re: Markets
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2014, 05:48:57 PM »

Orbital Burns: Nope, no one's got it. I kinda want to tell but it's too much fun watching everyone try to guess - truly, to be a game developer is to be a sadist who derives pleasure from the pain of players.

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Dark.Revenant

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Re: Markets
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2014, 05:53:11 PM »

It's obviously just a poster of Mr. Burns from The Simpsons plastered onto the hull of the planet's orbital station.  Reduces morality.
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