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[Alex]

So Logistics is a fleet stat while combat readiness is a ship stat?

Yep.

Have you thought or considered having Supply as a sort of ammo?

"Cargo" vs "Storage" sounds too complicated; there are already more than enough various capacities and stats to keep track of. So, I don't see doing something like that just on that basis alone.

Are there any plans to have out-of-battle events influence in-battle events?

Spoiler

For example i was chasing Fleet A and Fleet B was chasing me behind.
I engage Fleet A but during the fight Fleet B caught up and enters the fight as a third side and we all engage in a 1-vs-1-vs-1 free-for-all.
I suppose you could count the travel time faster than battle time, so the passage of time in the system would slow down considerably during a player battle, and thus almost instant battles between NPC fleets when the player is out of battle.

[close]

Definite no on a free-for-all. (Travel time IS way faster than combat time, but at the same time, whether battles remain instant or not remains to be seen.)

Any chance, down the line, to have astronomical events actually influence game events?

Spoiler

A red giant turning supernova destroying the whole system. The player has to escape the system, but when he comes back there's a huge amount of mining resources and a black hole in the middle
which will destroy you if you get close (but oh so fun to stride close to it when enemies are behind me. kessel run ftw).
Or a gamma-ray burst as a wide beam across the entire system that does constant damage as long as you remain in it.
Or even a rare, alien-made wormhole that spawns an instance where you can battle overpowered aliens and get cool weird weapons and modules.

[close]

A definite maybe

Spoiler

Doesn't this new system cause priority to play 'double duty' for ship repairs and crew distribution, something that may be unfavorable?

Supposing I had an awesome dreadnought, a secondary combat ship, one or more ships I captured that I'd want to tow around but not ever use, maybe some fighters, and some sort of cargo hauler. Some or all of these ships are lightly damaged. I use a lot of my crew capacity for marines, in case I ever run into a cappable onslaught or something.

The awesome dreadnought got severely damaged, but I don't want to lose it in combat, so until such a time as it's repaired, I don't want to field it in combat at all. Therefore, I don't mind it being undercrewed, because I need my secondary ship fully crewed - but I /do/ want it receiving repairs, at maximum priority, because when it's fixed I'll be fielding it in battle.

Currently, if you want something repaired maximum-fast, you also have to designate it to be fully crewed, which may not be an option if you don't want to fly damaged ships into combat (because you have other ships). This is especially a problem if this damaged ship is vastly larger than the other ships in your fleet: Otherwise you'd be able to field a bunch of smaller ships, and maybe skeletal-crew this one, but as is, all your crew are sucked into the dreadnaught leaving you far fewer ships you can field in combat.


With this you could argue 'But Bob, you have a high crew capacity with this supposition! This shouldn't be a problem!' Okay, then I present this: You used a bunch of smaller ships to defeat and capture a large capital ship of awesomeness. You use most of your personnel capacity for marines, to ensure this can happen. You want to field this giant ship as soon as possible, because it's giant and awesome, but you need your other ships to be crewed in the meantime so you aren't flying this damaged husk into battle. You can't just let it sit at the back of the line for repairs, because your other ships were somewhat damaged too, and you really want to repair this big ship before getting to the rest of them - once you do, you won't need the smaller ships anymore. What do?

[close]

First off, hi and welcome to the forum

Now then: in the situation you describe, you could designate your small ships as having logistical priority, but then suspend repairs on all of them. (If this weren't possible, though, I wouldn't consider this a problem - you shouldn't always be able to get the best of both worlds, otherwise there are no interesting choices. And there's a perfectly plausble lore justification available for linking the two, as someone has to be actually making all these repairs.)

[phyrex]

wouldnt (technically speaking) you need all the manpower possible to repair such a large ship as fast as possible ?
hence the "fully crewed repair team" thing ?

[PCCL]

Doesn't this new system cause priority to play 'double duty' for ship repairs and crew distribution, something that may be unfavorable?

Supposing I had an awesome dreadnought, a secondary combat ship, one or more ships I captured that I'd want to tow around but not ever use, maybe some fighters, and some sort of cargo hauler. Some or all of these ships are lightly damaged. I use a lot of my crew capacity for marines, in case I ever run into a cappable onslaught or something.

The awesome dreadnought got severely damaged, but I don't want to lose it in combat, so until such a time as it's repaired, I don't want to field it in combat at all. Therefore, I don't mind it being undercrewed, because I need my secondary ship fully crewed - but I /do/ want it receiving repairs, at maximum priority, because when it's fixed I'll be fielding it in battle.

Currently, if you want something repaired maximum-fast, you also have to designate it to be fully crewed, which may not be an option if you don't want to fly damaged ships into combat (because you have other ships). This is especially a problem if this damaged ship is vastly larger than the other ships in your fleet: Otherwise you'd be able to field a bunch of smaller ships, and maybe skeletal-crew this one, but as is, all your crew are sucked into the dreadnaught leaving you far fewer ships you can field in combat.


With this you could argue 'But Bob, you have a high crew capacity with this supposition! This shouldn't be a problem!' Okay, then I present this: You used a bunch of smaller ships to defeat and capture a large capital ship of awesomeness. You use most of your personnel capacity for marines, to ensure this can happen. You want to field this giant ship as soon as possible, because it's giant and awesome, but you need your other ships to be crewed in the meantime so you aren't flying this damaged husk into battle. You can't just let it sit at the back of the line for repairs, because your other ships were somewhat damaged too, and you really want to repair this big ship before getting to the rest of them - once you do, you won't need the smaller ships anymore. What do?

well, I presume you would need the crew on board to do the actual repairs...

for non-deployment, just don't deploy or retreat at start

gameplay wise, I think it makes sense to have to sacrifice the manpower to keep a ship operational (as in, many things are happening on board) but not have it in combat

EDIT: welp, didn't see the whole 3rd page, guess my opinion is expressed already

[Gothars]

OK, let me in on the hole-poking

Say I have three ships: A combat ship, a support ship and a freighter. I have not enough crew for all of them. I want my combat ship to be at high CR, so I give it logistical priority. I would like to have my support ship combat capable too, don't care about the freighter's CR, though. Now my remaining crew gets evenly distributed between the two and they both end up not combat ready (<10% CR I think?). Is there anything I can do to get my support ship into the fight without diminishing my combat ship's CR?
Sorry for deliberately constructing messy scenarios


OK, some more serious and general feedback:
I really like the LR concept, but I'm not sure about the implementation of the "Fleet Member Controls" at all. Maybe I still just don't fully grok it. You said this is supposed to be streamlining, I can see that in LR. But what about crew distribution? Before you had one way of controlling that, now there are 3: Logistical priority, max crew level setting and position.

Spoiler

Any ships flagged as a “logistical priority” receive first pick of supplies for repairs, and crew. Any leftover crew and supplies then go to the rest of the ships, which in the case of repairs often means nothing until the priority ships are done. Both supplies and crew are distributed evenly among the ships in each group.

The maximum level of crew to use on a given ship can be set. If no low-level crew is available, higher level crew will then be used.

Ship position does matter for crew allocation in that the highest-level crew goes to the first ship to need it, with "logistics priority" ships getting first dibs, in the order they are listed. That's actually the only thing it matters for now.

[close]

Also, you now get a bunch of new flags and toggles. At the moment you just have 2 (flagship/repairs) and position, for the update I count 8 (flagship/repairs/mothball/logistic p./crew level 1-4) and position (although that is less important). Of course it's completely premature to judge the ease of use of those controls without even seeing a screenshot. From what I imagine it has to be much more cumbersome, though. Of course you can do many new things with this and exert finer control, but I'm not convinced it will be worth it.


(At the moment I'm trying to come up with a way to implement all the options in a purely position based UI, I really liked the concept of just dragging a ship to a specific position to determine its status. Of course this is also premature, but I can't help thinking about it.)

[Alex]

OK, let me in on the hole-poking

Say I have three ships: A combat ship, a support ship and a freighter. I have not enough crew for all of them. I want my combat ship to be at high CR, so I give it logistical priority. I would like to have my support ship combat capable too, don't care about the freighter's CR, though. Now my remaining crew gets evenly distributed between the two and they both end up not combat ready (<10% CR I think?). Is there anything I can do to get my support ship into the fight without diminishing my combat ship's CR?
Sorry for deliberately constructing messy scenarios

No, there isn't. If there were, civilian ships might as well not require any crew to run at all. It might make sense to add some kind of super-low-CR-based campaign-level penalty to non-mothballed ships, just to make the need for crew on non-combat ships more explicit.

Spoiler

OK, some more serious and general feedback:
I really like the LR concept, but I'm not sure about the implementation of the "Fleet Member Controls" at all. Maybe I still just don't fully grok it. You said this is supposed to be streamlining, I can see that in LR. But what about crew distribution? Before you had one way of controlling that, now there are 3: Logistical priority, max crew level setting and position.

Spoiler

Any ships flagged as a “logistical priority” receive first pick of supplies for repairs, and crew. Any leftover crew and supplies then go to the rest of the ships, which in the case of repairs often means nothing until the priority ships are done. Both supplies and crew are distributed evenly among the ships in each group.

The maximum level of crew to use on a given ship can be set. If no low-level crew is available, higher level crew will then be used.

Ship position does matter for crew allocation in that the highest-level crew goes to the first ship to need it, with "logistics priority" ships getting first dibs, in the order they are listed. That's actually the only thing it matters for now.

[close]

Also, you now get a bunch of new flags and toggles. At the moment you just have 2 (flagship/repairs) and position, for the update I count 8 (flagship/repairs/mothball/logistic p./crew level 1-4) and position (although that is less important). Of course it's completely premature to judge the ease of use of those controls without even seeing a screenshot. From what I imagine it has to be much more cumbersome, though.



(At the moment I'm trying to come up with a way to implement all the options in a purely position based UI, I really liked the concept of just dragging a ship to a specific position to determine its status. Of course this is also premature, but I can't help thinking about it.)

[close]

Right, but the crew level control is one I'd not expect to see much use; it probably won't receive prominent billing in the UI. So, really, we're talking two extra toggles: mothballing and logistical priority. Both of those (as well as the "repair expenditure" limit) come along with logistics, so there's some increase in complexity there. On the other hand, there's a decrease in complexity in other areas since a lot of things get rolled into logistics, as well as it being a more flexible system overall. I think the tradeoff is a worthwhile one, but only playtesting - and getting the release out - will really tell.

[icepick37]

It sounds elegant. Takes a while to sink in, though that could just be me being slow. I figure this will FEEL right when I am actually playing with it, haha.

Though a learning curve is a not a bad things (as this game shows in combat at least. 

[Ripper1776]

You currently have two settings for ships, Combat and Mothballed.  I would argue for three and for changing the mothballed name.  As I understand it, the mothballed ships are those that fly with the fleet, but you don't want to use them in combat or give them a lot of support, i.e. crew and supplies.  Instead, call that Reserve, the ships that aren't ready to come in, but can be brought up when needed.  Oh, and I'd think they would still need a minimal crew and supplies if they're running around with the fleet.  For the other two designations, Combat = high crew levels and supplies, Non-Combat = whatever they need to function.  Non-Combat would be the ships you keep around for their usefulness outside of combat, freighters and the like.  Also, mothballing really would be what you do when you park a ship back at base.

On Boarding.  If you want to make it harder, I can see that.   But don't make it too hard.  Capturing the occasional ship to add to the fleet or sell is nice.  Gives a little variety to endlessly popping small pirate or other groups and just picking up cash, supplies, and fuel.

Can't wait to try out the new stuff.  Great Game  .

Ripper 1776

[bobusdoleus]

Now then: in the situation you describe, you could designate your small ships as having logistical priority, but then suspend repairs on all of them. (If this weren't possible, though, I wouldn't consider this a problem - you shouldn't always be able to get the best of both worlds, otherwise there are no interesting choices. And there's a perfectly plausble lore justification available for linking the two, as someone has to be actually making all these repairs.)

Ah, fair point, it is fixable after all.

I'd just add that the lore justification  - having men on your ship to repair them - WOULD make sense, if not for the fact that, if you don't play with the priority settings and just leave the ship languishing in the back, it'll start getting repaired when its turn comes around, even though it isn't fully crewed. That makes a bit of a disconnect.

Thanks for answering the question, even if it was mostly my fault for not thinking about it enough rather than a good question! Oops.

[Reapy]

UI suggestion that I probably don't need to ask for but just wanted to check... is there a tool tip or window of some sort near the LR of the fleet that breaks down all the factors that pop into it?

Like I see say LR 5% in red, so I know I need to fix it. I mouse over it (or maybe is already shown) to see all the things contributing (which already I can't remember ) but like Marine supply use 25%, crew supply use, loss from CR, loss from repairs etc.

Ideally you just want to visit that number, see you need to take action, then at a glance see a summary of problem areas so you can decide you want to say eject some marines into space, mothball a ship or two and halt repairs so you can limp back to base with your phat loot.

It also will help players see all the factors that lead into the LR rating so they can better think on how to form their fleet.

Also color coding of red/yellow/green on number values help people know whether a number is "good" or not, like if I had not read the posts here, seeing a repaired ship at 50% CR with my green crew would make me think the ship needs a lot of work, but if it's colored green it at least hints to me that 50% is OK.

Maybe calling it "+50% CR" would work too, just something to throw my brain off 50% being "at half" and instead more along the lines of "50% more", if that makes sense.

Anyway, interesting updates as usual, I like the LR idea a lot and I can see how those factors again drag more supply ships into fleets, which I like a lot.

[Alex]

UI suggestion that I probably don't need to ask for but just wanted to check... is there a tool tip or window of some sort near the LR of the fleet that breaks down all the factors that pop into it?

Yeah, the logistics tooltip is actually one of the next things on my list There's already an extensive one for CR - it shows the current maximum, the various factors that contribute to it, the effect it has, the recent CR-affecting events, etc. (It's expandable with a hotkey, with the basic version being pared down depending on what screen it's shown in.) The LR one should be in the same vein in terms of detail.

Maybe calling it "+50% CR" would work too, just something to throw my brain off 50% being "at half" and instead more along the lines of "50% more", if that makes sense.

That's actually how it's stated in the tooltip: "Crew experience: +XX%".

[Reapy]

I always knew this man was a genius

[Alex]

@frump: Actually, this isn't the place for it because it's off-topic. You're free to start another thread on the subject or send me an email if you prefer that route.

I'm going to clean this up; apologies to all whose posts were deleted.

[Silver Silence]

Wait, what was deleted? 
So confusing when mods delete posts, then refer to said removed posts. Leaves me thinking "What in blue blazes are you talking about?". Though perhaps worded a bit more....vibrantly...

MID-POST EDIT:
Wait, was it that guy's rant about how development was stale? One step at a time, I say. Can't rush good things.

[icepick37]

The mods do this so people will know NOT to refer back to those posts. Seems like there's always one or two guys who post after anyway, though.

EDIT: Also it seems off-topic to comment like that/this.  :p

[LazyWizard]

UI suggestion that I probably don't need to ask for but just wanted to check... is there a tool tip or window of some sort near the LR of the fleet that breaks down all the factors that pop into it?

Yeah, the logistics tooltip is actually one of the next things on my list There's already an extensive one for CR - it shows the current maximum, the various factors that contribute to it, the effect it has, the recent CR-affecting events, etc. (It's expandable with a hotkey, with the basic version being pared down depending on what screen it's shown in.) The LR one should be in the same vein in terms of detail.

Maybe calling it "+50% CR" would work too, just something to throw my brain off 50% being "at half" and instead more along the lines of "50% more", if that makes sense.

That's actually how it's stated in the tooltip: "Crew experience: +XX%".

Will mods be able to add contributing factors to Logistics and CR and add their own entries to the tooltip?