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[mostmodest]

I was thinking about the levelling system of everything and a few other in-game stuffs when I had a brianwave.
Why not have the skills we have now as well as a tech tree?
The way I'm thinking of it is having the skills influence the tech and vice versa. (i.e., you need level 5 in combat and level 2 in tech to get the Medusa (or something...))
The tech tree would enable you to buy new ships and weapons, as well as increasing the value of certain skill matchups.
It's all subject to our glorious leader's discretion, of course...

[Decer304]

Yes, that would add more depth to the game.

[arcibalde]

Wait what? So it will force you to make some skill choices if you want to fly in medusa (for example)? I don't like it. I think it would limit player choices.

[Aethelric]

Wait what? So it will force you to make some skill choices if you want to fly in medusa (for example)? I don't like it. I think it would limit player choices.

It actually provides additional player choices and replayability -- a tech tree represents a large number of options which complement the ship choice; a lack of a tech tree only gives you the choice of ships.  A tech tree would allow you to "spec" a character into low-tech, mid-tech or high-tech. It could also allow you to specialize in different hull sizes, or different weapon types.  We're talking a large number of potential routes here, which you could explore and toy with over multiple playthroughs.

It could also be used for balance: rather than just racing towards one particularly strong ship hull, the player would need to plan out his character's progression.

Basically, I'm completely on board with the idea.

[mostmodest]

It actually provides additional player choices and replayability -- a tech tree represents a large number of options which complement the ship choice; a lack of a tech tree only gives you the choice of ships.  A tech tree would allow you to "spec" a character into low-tech, mid-tech or high-tech. It could also allow you to specialize in different hull sizes, or different weapon types.

That's basically what I was about to say...
We'll stick with the skills for now, unless Alex wants to change it... But basically, as well as hullmods, you would be able to unlock ships with aptitude and skill combos, or something. Say, each level in an aptitude gives points towards a certain level of tech, and those points add to make a tier.

[arcibalde]

It actually provides additional player choices and replayability -- a tech tree represents a large number of options which complement the ship choice; a lack of a tech tree only gives you the choice of ships.  A tech tree would allow you to "spec" a character into low-tech, mid-tech or high-tech. It could also allow you to specialize in different hull sizes, or different weapon types.  We're talking a large number of potential routes here, which you could explore and toy with over multiple playthroughs.

I just don't see how it provides additional choices. If you have A, B, C, D ships, now you can take anyone you like with any combination of skills. But with that "system", you need to have XY skills for A ship or ZX skills for B ship etc. You can't have B ship with ZX skills. That is limiting. Instead of searching for your ultimate build you have pre-def choices and you can't change them.

[Aethelric]

Exactly, you have choices! Choices that actually mean something besides "I can afford this hull and its obviously better" or "this ship looks cooler".

Using your line of thinking, one could easily argue that the game should remove the entire skill system and just replace it with flat, across-the-board increases to stat with each level gained.  This way, you wouldn't be forced to choose between going for armor hull mods instead of PD AI, or whatever.

The problem with that approach is that you end up with a game where you can easily do everything on your first playthrough.  That's really the last thing you want for this kind of game; the player should feel like each playthrough allows them different options and choices, which lead to very different experiences.

[arcibalde]

So if i like ship A i must go with XZ skill over and over and over again. I can't make it with other skill choices. Ain't that a bit repetitive?

edit: And imagine frustration, your fleet is partially destroyed and you got $$ but station does not sell ships that you have unlocked. So you must go somewhere they sell ships you can fly on... And what with ships that you board? Pretty punishing mechanic...

[mostmodest]

So if i like ship A i must go with XZ skill over and over and over again. I can't make it with other skill choices. Ain't that a bit repetitive?

edit: And imagine frustration, your fleet is partially destroyed and you got $$ but station does not sell ships that you have unlocked. So you must go somewhere they sell ships you can fly on... And what with ships that you board? Pretty punishing mechanic...

Firstly, it's more like "Ship X needs tier Y in tech level Z. To do that, I need to invest skill/attribute points in Skill A, B or D." There'll be multiple combos per ship.
You can board any ships, it's just that this mechanic unlocks ships for purchase, rather than having them all there yo buy at the start.
For me, it makes lore-wise sense because as your Captain pilots more and gets more experiences, he learns about technology and ships, allowing him to know how to use them, therefore enabling them to be bought."

[arcibalde]

Firstly, it's more like "Ship X needs tier Y in tech level Z. To do that, I need to invest skill/attribute points in Skill A, B or D." There'll be multiple combos per ship.

So if i need ship X i ether need skill A on level 5 or skill B on level 3 or skill C on level 7? Ain't that be a bit confusing? And what about weapons? Weapons would be there too? Then, chart to represent all that would be like maze. Like that confusing thing (skill tree) from CBT of Path of Exile. There are more subtle methods to prevent player to obtain any ship at any moment in game. In finish game i don't think you'll have all ships to buy in every station.

You can board any ships, it's just that this mechanic unlocks ships for purchase, rather than having them all there yo buy at the start.
For me, it makes lore-wise sense because as your Captain pilots more and gets more experiences, he learns about technology and ships, allowing him to know how to use them, therefore enabling them to be bought."

Errr... Ok, now, you can't learn how to use Paragon when you fly in Wolf (at least that is how i think things work ) For me that do not have any sense. As for captains, you go in space tavern and put job offer for: captain of Wolf frigate and crew. That is how i imagine you get yourself a captain and crew   

[ArkAngel]

I am gonna have to say, I couldn't agree more with archiblade. Having a set path you have to take limits you to options when the system you have now has hundreds of build/ routes. In using a tech tree you limit yourself to concrete  pattern.  Also lore wise, wouldn't the general industry have standardized ideas? Not saying a talon has the same controls as a xephos but, you would think that a pilot could still fly blu any ship without crashing or going into the sun.

[BillyRueben]

So totally going to have to agree with arcibalde and ArkAngel. This "skill tree" system only serves to limit choices, not increase them.

[icepick37]

I am not really against the idea of a tech tree. I think you could implement it in a way that doesn't actually enforce limits, just provides choices and benefits. But I don't think that's what will happen.

We don't really know how tech is going to work out in the real game. What we have now is so radically different in implementation that it's kind of hard to talk about this. We can only really speculate and talk in generalities.

I think the way it will work is more like: purchase this medusa, or buy the blueprint for a hound. One way you have a kicking ship, the other way you have a steady supply of them. You can always go back and make the other choice, but you are definitely locked in (at least temporarily) when you drop resources on stuff since they probably won't just be handed to you.

We also don't know how hard it will be to acquire new stuff like ships. The choices might be more distinctive. Or there may be multiple ways of getting things. Befriending certain factions might lock you out of one way of getting certain tech, but not other harder ways.

[JT]

I've always been of the mindset that anyone can do anything, but only some people can do some things well, and I think that's how Starfarersector sees things and, in my opinion, how it should continue to see things. =)

[Modest]

In my personal opinion this "Tech Trees" system could work as a requiment for being able to actually build ship in Your starbase, but not as a limitation for being able to capture, pilot and buy it. However as far as I know (I may be wrong - if I am please correct me) being able to manufacture paticular ship type will be limited by possesion of correct blueprints (or at least it is planed to be done in this way) which is good alternative to tech tree (and does not mess up character skill menu, do not require ballancing and generally looks easier to implemend).