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Author Topic: Warp drive more feasible than first thought  (Read 22653 times)

Upgradecap

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 01:32:06 PM »

 I'd actually prefer bodily immortality than being inside a computer, no matter how advanced. Though that may just be me.
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Gothars

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 01:40:32 PM »

I'd actually prefer bodily immortality than being inside a computer, no matter how advanced. Though that may just be me.

When technology is advanced enough to offer mind computer transfer for common people fully featured android bodies will be old news. You can download yourself and have many bodies!
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Upgradecap

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 01:47:18 PM »

So......


I can be me, but i can't die because everyone i get bored of a body, i can just change? Sign me up! !
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TJJ

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 06:27:13 PM »

I'd actually prefer bodily immortality than being inside a computer, no matter how advanced. Though that may just be me.

When technology is advanced enough to offer mind computer transfer for common people fully featured android bodies will be old news. You can download yourself and have many bodies!

You're assuming consciousness is something tangible that can be transferred, rather than extra-dimensional interactions.

If you could transfer consciousness, then you could copy it.
The concept of self falls down when multiple instances of you can exist.
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naufrago

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 06:52:44 PM »

If this new theory requires ~800kg of mass (Voyager 1's launch mass) be converted to energy, that means the space craft would need to be able to harness the equivalent power generated by ~344 Tsar bombs.
While it's not unimaginable for us to be able to generate such huge amounts of energy, the material sciences necessary to harness such huge energy levels are completely unimaginable.

I'm aware of that. I said 'more feasible than first thought,' as did the article. I took great pains to imply that nobody expects this sort of advancement to happen overnight. Also, 'exotic matter' just means we don't know what it'll have to be made of yet.

With just a small change to the shape of the theoretical warp drive, they reduced the energy required by many orders of magnitude, less than a decade after the theory was first proposed. Further refinement to the geometry and other things mentioned in the article could potentially lead to even lower power requirements. Combine that with advances to energy production and material sciences, and it's entirely possible that this sort of warp drive could become a reality within half a century (keyword: possible).

It's important not to look just at the current requirements of the design, but to look beyond that. The design isn't feasible in its current state, and nobody's arguing that it is. What's important is how massive of an improvement it is over the previous theoretical design with such a small change. There's at least one example of a theory progressing relatively rapidly to practical application (the nuke), so it would be crazy to completely dismiss the possibility.

This is all assuming this sort of thing gets properly funded. I think it will, since a device that can warp space-time has practical military applications (like the nuke) in addition to its use as an engine.

Warping space-time could be a very potent defensive tool, especially for anything with wheels/treads. Warp the area in front of an incoming bullet or artillery shell and you can change its trajectory slightly, basically using refraction. All you need to do is activate it for a few milliseconds at a time to change the trajectory by a couple degrees. It's much easier (requires less energy) and safer to deflect incoming fire slightly than to outright stop it with armor. If there's an explosion next to you, warp space for a few milliseconds so that the blast wave has to travel a little longer and dissipate more before it hits your armor (a shockwave's energy dissipates proportional to 1/r^2, so a very effective use).

No way of knowing how much energy that sort of thing will ultimately require, but you can bet DARPA would be interested in it.
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Gothars

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2012, 03:00:23 AM »


You're assuming consciousness is something tangible that can be transferred, rather than extra-dimensional interactions.

If you could transfer consciousness, then you could copy it.
The concept of self falls down when multiple instances of you can exist.

There's not much to assume. All higher brain functions have been (more or less precisely) linked to specific regions of the brain. All aspects of what we call consciousness can be hampered or disabled by lesion or illness of specific brain regions. Many of those aspects can be observed in animals and found mirrored in their brains. Consciousness is accounted for in the physical world.

And I don't think the concept of self would fall because of any kind of cloning. Think monozygotic twins, they are identical at conception, but due to slight variance in perspective and experience they become individuals. Sometimes extremely similar, but individuals . If you would clone or make multiple copies of a human consciousness they would diverge in their first second of existence, cancelling their non-individuality.


Warping space-time could be a very potent defensive tool, especially for anything with wheels/treads. Warp the area in front of an incoming bullet or artillery shell and you can change its trajectory slightly, basically using refraction. All you need to do is activate it for a few milliseconds at a time to change the trajectory by a couple degrees. It's much easier (requires less energy) and safer to deflect incoming fire slightly than to outright stop it with armor. If there's an explosion next to you, warp space for a few milliseconds so that the blast wave has to travel a little longer and dissipate more before it hits your armor (a shockwave's energy dissipates proportional to 1/r^2, so a very effective use).
No way of knowing how much energy that sort of thing will ultimately require, but you can bet DARPA would be interested in it.

Warping time-space to defect bullets? That is like suggesting to use an atomic blast to deflect an arrow, way out of (energy-)proportion.

But, as you, I think its really exiting that this technology became more feasible so fast, and might become even more feasible in the future. Not only for the aspect of visiting other worlds. Most scientific analyses I know of deem a contact with any extraterrestrial civilization unlikely, simply due to the insurmountable distances between everything. Well, the mountain just became a hill.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 03:15:40 AM by Gothars »
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2012, 01:41:32 PM »

I wouldn't say that all of humanity needs to end - there are exceptions to the rule. I mean, sure thing, there are 1 smart guy for each 10 idiots, but that's not to say that the smart guy needs to die, is there?
No, you are wrong. There is 1 decent guy/girl for each 1.000 or more idiots...  And i horrified with thought: Humans CAN space travel to other galaxy's. What horror would we bring to other aliens. What terror we would throw at them. Our entire history is a blood bath and we do that to each other. I can't even think what would we do to not earthlings... I really, really hope that human race never ever have something like FTL. We are bogeymen.

Actually most of history is extremely boring and average stuff.... it's just that once in a while a bloodbath happens, it's so much more interesting that it robs all the attention.

It's just not feasible to have more killing than living and grow at the same time (unless you have some really weird ritualistic society that kills its members once they are done reproducing).  The sheer size growth of human civilization speaks a lot of good about its stability.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 01:43:11 PM by Gaizokubanou »
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Gothars

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2012, 01:50:03 PM »

And yet it's growth is what might become humanities demise, for the overboiling life which our future promises might prove deadlier then all the murder of times past...

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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2012, 02:12:29 PM »

And yet it's growth is what might become humanities demise, for the overboiling life which our future promises might prove deadlier then all the murder of times past...

Raise standard of living and rights for women and overpopulation is solved rather easily.

That is lot harder than said though lol
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Upgradecap

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2012, 02:19:35 PM »

I'd recommend genocide by asteroids for the overgrowth problem. ;D
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Rowanas

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2012, 02:53:15 PM »

As fantastic as a we are as a species, I reckon we should continue full-steam-ahead on this whole "advance to our own destruction" thing we've got going. We're not a very happy species at the moment, and holding out isn't going to get us anywhere. Either our technology will kill us, or it'll make us happier, and either one is one up from where we are now.

Brave New World or bust!
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2012, 06:59:33 PM »

As fantastic as a we are as a species, I reckon we should continue full-steam-ahead on this whole "advance to our own destruction" thing we've got going. We're not a very happy species at the moment, and holding out isn't going to get us anywhere. Either our technology will kill us, or it'll make us happier, and either one is one up from where we are now.

Brave New World or bust!

Somebody needs to get laid ;D

Is this sort of hate on humanity the new cool sci-fi geek thing to do or are starfarer board members just that depressed?  So much judgement being handed out on these topics...
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Rowanas

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2012, 02:08:11 AM »

As fantastic as a we are as a species, I reckon we should continue full-steam-ahead on this whole "advance to our own destruction" thing we've got going. We're not a very happy species at the moment, and holding out isn't going to get us anywhere. Either our technology will kill us, or it'll make us happier, and either one is one up from where we are now.

Brave New World or bust!

Somebody needs to get laid ;D

Is this sort of hate on humanity the new cool sci-fi geek thing to do or are starfarer board members just that depressed?  So much judgement being handed out on these topics...

I think the "hate on humanity" movement is part of a backlash against the toxicity of the systems under which we live. Nihilism and fatalism aren't new, but they're pretty durable.
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2012, 03:19:52 AM »

You're assuming consciousness is something tangible that can be transferred, rather than extra-dimensional interactions.

If you could transfer consciousness, then you could copy it.
The concept of self falls down when multiple instances of you can exist.

Not if you apply time and place as part of defining characteristic of an individual unit (which is something that should be done).  Not that I agree with immortality-through-digital-conversion remotely plausible because I find the whole "download your mind into a computer" more of a "magic" more than sci-fi anyway... Mind isn't digital (nor are digital copies all identical and exists in some sort of fairy land... they occupy real space and time on HDD or whatever we store them in) and any near identical copies of it would be just that, copies.

I think the "hate on humanity" movement is part of a backlash against the toxicity of the systems under which we live. Nihilism and fatalism aren't new, but they're pretty durable.

I just don't get this whole negativity... If world is so much gloom and doom that there is no plausible chance of improvement hence it warrants complete annihilation, then why not just off oneself?  If not, why be a *** about it rather than dealing with it and trying to improve things?  It's like what I tell myself when dealing with frustrating interpersonal relationships... if I'm not going to sue/beat/kill the bastard, make nice and get along.

And the second sentence adds even more to this trend that's already full of irony ;D
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LordHerpDerpington

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Re: Warp drive more feasible than first thought
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2012, 07:37:11 AM »

There's plenty of doom and gloom to be found, if you look for them - Most scientific progress is funded by military needs, people don't like each other for some reason, American government blah blah.

However, there is plenty of awesome things to be found if you look for those instead.


Back on topic, filling the interior of a spaceship with super-efficient fusion engines could work. Just take some water from here initially, then find a nebula or somesuch, and BAM! Hydrogen!
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It sounds as reasonable as the rest of quantum mechanics, so why not? 

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