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Author Topic: Boarding  (Read 28229 times)

GUNINANRUNIN

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2012, 01:22:03 PM »

Wait size=power?
I'm sure a high-tech pod could easily out-compute(which implies that hacking into a ship would require brute force...) something like an onslaught
I dunno man.. Iscariot has a very valid point. Maybe if the ship was a mid-line frigate. Almost certainly as a matter of fact. I wonder if you could even 'hack' a lo-tech in the first place.
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Iscariot

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2012, 01:37:34 PM »

I suppose the point about tech disparity is true, but I personally don't believe that it's that outlandish. After all, it's not like an Onslaught doesn't have peerage with a Paragon-- it does. They're comparable military vessels, and it's not like you can't backdate a ship's computer systems. It'd be the first thing I'd do if my opponent was a bunch of slimy, high tech wankers with a penchant for sneakiness.

And it's equally possible that a venerable vessel would be impossible to hack due to outdated software languages and architecture, or an abundance of compartmentalized or analog systems. The number of hoops to jump through to get space-hacking are really not that much fewer than attempting to use infantry in a space fleet engagement.
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The idea is that the various tech levels represent different - not "better" - ways to do things.

BillyRueben

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2012, 01:45:17 PM »

Low tech ships might be even less vulnerable to hacking than mid or high tech ships. Less technology to disrupt and such. Wasn't that a HUGE plot point in Battlestar Galactica?
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Iscariot

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2012, 01:54:57 PM »

Yup! I really liked that part about the new BSG. The Battlestars were 'less advanced' but really consistently kicked the snot out of Cylon ships. And also looked cooler.
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Aleskander

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2012, 02:15:37 PM »

Well the battlestars were built to fight the cylons knowing how to fight them. They technically had computers and used them, they just didn't rely on them to do most of the work, and even then in the new series they did get hacked once or twice. It depends on how alex wanted to explain ship to ship communications, a network or something like radio.

And I really don't see why people think having a bigger computer would be an advantage, in situations like this it's software that matters. I just don't think hacking would be that useful or proclaimed in game.
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GUNINANRUNIN

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2012, 04:23:36 PM »

Low tech ships might be even less vulnerable to hacking than mid or high tech ships. Less technology to disrupt and such. Wasn't that a HUGE plot point in Battlestar Galactica?
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I wonder if you could even 'hack' a lo-tech in the first place.
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Iscariot

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2012, 04:43:34 PM »


And I really don't see why people think having a bigger computer would be an advantage, in situations like this it's software that matters. I just don't think hacking would be that useful or proclaimed in game.

That's like saying having a disproportionately large brain doesn't matter to how smart we are as humans. Yeah, it ain't the whole story, how it's wired matters a lot, hence why we're smarter than whales, but it is absolutely relevant. In the realm of space warships, where maintaining the cyber security would presumably be a priority, and where there would be some standardization in the architecture of computing hardware, it is not unreasonable to assume that for the most part, having more hardware to work with would provide a distinct advantage to the home team.
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Aleskander

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2012, 05:08:28 PM »

Hardware describes how powerful a computer can be. It's like gasoline(there really isn't a good analogy, I don't have to explain this to many people). Software is like the engine, it performs action and controls how effective the gasoline is used. It doesn't matter how much gas you have, if the engine  or software is more advanced, it will still overpower the unit with more gasoline. It isn't exactly like this with software and hardware, but you have made me explain it.
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Iscariot

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2012, 05:31:42 PM »

I don't disagree with that, I just disagree with your assertion that the potential processing power of a computer is irrelevant to it's ability to defend against cyber attack.

If a warship as massive and as expensive as an Onslaught could be brought low by a little hack pod, then there would be no Onslaughts.
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Aleskander

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2012, 05:51:48 PM »

But sadly, it is. It's all about software.

Technically a little hacking pod could bring down an onslaught, seeing as it wasn't built for that(you could also take this down the whole BSG road, but read the next scentince). Yes it would be unbalanced, another reason why I think it shouldn't be added. It's frankly a silly concept.
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xenoargh

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2012, 06:30:38 PM »

<joke> I figure that the only way com works right now must be via two tin cans on a string, since you can only do it up close  ;)

It'd be really cool if, in the future, we can deploy Virus Bombs that bypass shields and do EMP while the OS for components clears its memory or is rebooted, use hacking skills to get better results when talking to people by faking our identity, etc. though :)

/OT
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Iscariot

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2012, 07:12:06 PM »

But sadly, it is. It's all about software.

Technically a little hacking pod could bring down an onslaught, seeing as it wasn't built for that(you could also take this down the whole BSG road, but read the next scentince). Yes it would be unbalanced, another reason why I think it shouldn't be added. It's frankly a silly concept.

Yes, software that both sides for the most part share, and software that is stored and executed by physical hardware.

Yes, a hacking pod could bring down an Onslaught but they demonstrably do not because Onslaughts are still the main ship of the line for the entire Hegemony. We can therefore infer that Onslaughts are well protected enough electronically.

And yes, it's silly.
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LostInTheWired

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2012, 02:13:01 PM »

It's actually kind of surprising how much of the arguments seem to be missing the point.  People say that if a huge laser can't get through, how could a blow torch?  Sure.  Hit the exact same spot on the ship over and over again, then say that.  They can focus on specific points.  Pods would have dedicated hardware for JUST cutting hull.  How did they cut the armor plates in the first place?  Dedicated equipment, and time.  It's not fast, I don't think it ever should be.  I noticed someone talking about how silly it was in X3.  Do you know how long it took?  How difficult it was?  You had to have an extremely well trained team, disabled the targets shields, and even then, unless they were trained enough, they may not even be able to cut through the hull.  Seriously, bad example.  Cutting a hole just large enough for a man and his exosuit to get into a ship, in zero-g, can't be all that big.  Making it difficult is part of the point.  You only board when you know you're going to win and want a little something extra, or an act of desperation.

I think the hacking really doesn't have any place in this, though.  The hacking that happens in most games is just silly, and has nothing to do with how hacking works in the real world.
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arcibalde

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2012, 01:46:13 AM »

But what will you hack? Door? And what if door is locked from inside with something mechanical, that can be only unlock from inside?
And pods that have equipment that can cut hull with given time... Yes, ok, but ship would have sensors for that or something like that so they would know when someone is trying to cut. Then, they would send marine team at given spot to wait cutters, and when they pierce hole, well, marines would take care of them  ;D
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PCCL

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Re: Boarding
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2012, 02:01:58 AM »

X3 boardings (at least the first few of a certain class) are actually some of the most nerve-wracking boarding actions I've ever played.....

The problem with X3 boarding, I think, is that marines are too important and saving is so easy that whenever anything at all goes wrong, reload is the obvious solution.

Here the boardings can happen in battles, making reloads impractical (restart the whole battle?) and marines come in platoons rather than squads (Also there's basically bound to be some losses when taking a ship). Plus some good feedback (gunfire n stuff on the boarded ship) and a "whatever you do don't shoot this ship" or "drop her shields and that's it" command. It might just work well....

I still am not sure if it's worth alex's trouble to implement it though
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