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[Wapno]

As the title says, I got a question:
Is there any way to make beams generate hard flux instead of soft flux? Be it modding, editing core files, scripts or whatever. Anything...?

I was thinking about making a Homeworld mod for Starfarer, but there's a problem - the main cap-ship weapon in Homeworld were ion cannons, a ship killer beam of energy. The problem is that the way Starfarer treats beams is horribly wrong with idea of this weapon. It's supposed to be assault weapon, not "close support" as this game refers to beams. Think of pulse laser, heavy blaster, or autopulse laser transformed into a beam that deals hard flux damage. Unfortunately, I can see no other way to fix this other than making them deal hard flux. Making them deal reasonable damage will make them useless against ships with good shields that can dissipate soft flux quickly, unless used in great number. Making them deal higher damage would make it easier to take down shields, but will then make them overpowered against armor, fighters and hull.

Mod aside, I'm just sick of this stupid mechanic. When I've seen trailer of starfarer on youtube for the first time, I was excited with idea of making a ship that uses only beam weapons, because I love beams. And then I was dissapointed, when I've found out that beams suck, because most ships can shrug them off without any effort whatsoever, unless, again, they're used in great number.

[Upgradecap]

Homeworld mod for this would equal epic win! I am surprised no one thought of it earlier. As for the beams, i'm sorry but i have no idea how to change that, sorry.

[ClosetGoth]

I know it sounds cheesy, but you could try making a projectile weapon with outlandish velocity. Sorry, I can't be of much help.

[Wapno]

I know it sounds cheesy, but you could try making a projectile weapon with outlandish velocity. Sorry, I can't be of much help.

Thanks for trying... but that solution is out of question. Besides, there's no point in inventing an artificial version of something that has been already invented, and it's IN THE GAME (beams). Too bad the beams have been "balanced" in the worst possible way there could be. I don't think "balancing" is even valid word here, since beams in Starfarer are outright underpowered and broken. The only thing I've found them useful for is point defense, and even then ballistic point defense is superior. The tachyon lance is cool too, but that's about it.

[Blade Skydancer]

Well, I do have a mod that introduces a bunch of new beam weapons. >.>;

[Tarkets]

Most homeworld ships don't have shields anyway?

[Wapno]

Well, I do have a mod that introduces a bunch of new beam weapons. >.>;

Yes, and I've seen it. It's kinda cool, GJ man. But the problem is still there - your beams still deal soft flux damage.

Most homeworld ships don't have shields anyway?

I thought about it... and I came to conclusion that I will have to give them shields, so they can compete with vanilla. Without shields, HW ships would be an army of Buffalo MK2's.

[Blade Skydancer]

Unfortunately, that's how the game mechanics work. I don't know what you mean exactly by "hard flux damage", can you please clarify what you mean?

[Wapno]

Unfortunately, that's how the game mechanics work. I don't know what you mean exactly by "hard flux damage", can you please clarify what you mean?

I'm sorry, I've made a mistake in my post above. Fixed already. I meant "SOFT flux".

[Blade Skydancer]

I'm still not sure what you mean by "hard" flux and "soft" flux, honestly.

[Tarkets]

You know when you shoot a ships shields that little vertical bar moves to the right on their flux? Thats hard flux. Basically, as long as their shields are up their flux will never drain below that line, which has all sorts of implications

Soft flux damage raises the targets flux but doesn't move the bar. A lot depends on the weapon, but typically ships with shields can shrug off beam damage pretty easily.

[Wapno]

http://starfarergame.wikia.com/wiki/Flux

Take a look at the section "Hard flux and Soft Flux". They explain it all nicely.

Soft flux damage raises the targets flux but doesn't move the bar. A lot depends on the weapon, but typically ships with shields can shrug off beam damage pretty easily.

That sounds like an euphemism in some situations. High-tech ships can literally bathe in beams and don't care. It's ridiculous when an Apogee cruiser with stock equipment is shooting its high intensity laser from a distance at slower ship for several minutes, because it doesn't do jack against their shield. Beam mechanics in this game are, saying this once again, broken.

[Blade Skydancer]

Ahhh, okay. Well, that's a design choice then. The thing about most beams is they are constant and have practically zero cooldown. What you could do, though, is make all beams have a little bit of EMP damage on them so that they hurt shields more. Making them Kinetic damage, like the Graviton Beam, is also another way to get beams to deal shield damage.

Maybe when we can add new weapon types, we can make a "hard beam" that adds hard flux.

[Wapno]

Ahhh, okay. Well, that's a design choice then. The thing about most beams is they are constant and have practically zero cooldown. What you could do, though, is make all beams have a little bit of EMP damage on them so that they hurt shields more. Making them Kinetic damage, like the Graviton Beam, is also another way to get beams to deal shield damage.

Maybe when we can add new weapon types, we can make a "hard beam" that adds hard flux.

Take a look at graviton beam. According to description it's supposed to be shield buster, and it's pathetic even at that, even when used in great number, but then again, you could use pulse lasers in the same number and deal more damage. This matter has been discussed on this forum before. Kinetic damage type doesn't do much except for making damage 200% against shield, which is not enough. This is especially bad, since it not only doubles damage against shield, but it HALVES damage against hull, which is bad.

EMP? As far as I know, EMP does not deal bonus damage against shields. In fact, I've heard shields are effective at stopping EMP. Besides, it would also make my weapon overpowered due to the fact that it would annihilate victim's system too easily.

[Alex]

Hey there - I'll see about adding the ability to do hard flux damage to beam weapons via mods.

I think you might be missing the point of beam weapons, though Beam weapons are longer-ranged than most equivalent weapons and basically can't miss, and function well in a support role - even if you're not seeing them raise the target's flux, they're still reducing the amount of flux it can spend on firing weapons, and generally in a very efficient manner.

If beam weapons *did* deal hard flux damage, that, combined with their long range and superior speed of high-tech ships would make them much too good at kiting (aforementioned Apogee shooting its one laser at a lower-tech ship that can't close in or get away to counter this). As it stands now, you can't do that because in an equal engagement, pure beam damage can be shrugged off. Note that a larger ship can overpower a smaller one with beams - but *that* is ok, because a smaller ship can generally get away if it wants to.


Anyway, there's more I could go into about this, but ultimately beam weapons are quite strong and efficient. They're just not meant to fill an assault role, which is what you're trying to use them for. I can certainly see a mod wanting to take them in that direction, though (probably with a much reduced range to make them balanced), so I'll take a look at making it an option.