Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Feedback: AI problems  (Read 4757 times)

Reshy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
  • White
    • View Profile
Feedback: AI problems
« on: July 04, 2012, 03:03:25 AM »

Ok, been playing around with starfarer a bit more and I noticed fighters need a massive rework.



Bombers need to rework how they drop their payloads so they become less suicidal, currently they try to fly through ships regardless of how many guns are in the way.  This isn't very bright at all.  Bombers should automatically try to attack from odd angles instead of going straight in where all the biggest guns are aimed sort of like fighters instead of making the shortest route to the target.  Furthermore bombers should fly off to the side of the target instead of flying awkwardly through it via space magic.  When bombers finish their payload they should hover around the largest ship if there is no carrier currently deployed.


Fighters also need some rework, they don't strafe instead they fly straight into targets stall and then fly backwards.  What they should do it make a 'fly by' whereas they don't head straight into the ship, but around it while spraying bullets into it by turning while retaining the momentum.  Fighters also shouldn't awkwardly slow down when spraying into ships as if waiting to take a rocket to the face.  Fighters in general need to be less suicidal when there's a carrier and try to save at least part of the squad from complete destruction otherwise.  Fighters returning should also AVOID but not attempt to fight enemies along the return route.


Frigates and Destroyers need to flank better, mainly based on where the guns are aimed at.  On ships with side-facing guns ships will run straight into them, further more sometimes they do the same thing that fighters do which is to fly right up within range of the vulcans and stall for 1-2 seconds and back off.  They also need to be more wary of flux levels when fighting larger ships, EG leave enough so you don't overload from a single round.


Frigates with shorter ranged weapons than the opponent shouldn't stall when trying to attack.  On the Sinking the Bis'mar AI control ships pretty much refuse to attack the onslaught because it out ranges them, especially the hyperion.


Sometimes ships just randomly drop shields even while being actively attacked and having little to no flux levels.


All AI ships regard unguided rockets as missiles rather than bullets, and that should be changed.


Weapons on auto-fire or being used by the AI shouldn't try to blast through an asteroid/hulk and instead should pause until there's a clear line of sight.  Neither should ships hover closer when blocked and not firing by debris.  Furthermore auto-firing weapons shouldn't start firing before they have swung around to the target.  Same goes with the AI's aim as they seem to have problems not wasting half of the auto-pulse's burst on vacuum.


Ships that are high on hard flux should vent even when being affected by a pressure weapon like graviton/high intensity laser so long as they're not in range of the other weapons.  Furthermore, ships that are faster than the enemy should vent sooner since they can stay out of range more easily.  They also should take advantage of the enemy's acceleration/deceleration stalling when backing off to vent flux or at least drop shielding (Assuming all enemies are out of range/ammo).


The AI should better take advantage of the ability to strafe with their ships so they can keep the side with the firepower aimed at enemies.




The AI also needs to properly deal with being too close to other ships, when sandwiched between two different ships it will stall and that's bad for when you have two cruisers or capitals duking it out with it being obliviously in the middle.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 07:18:19 PM by JamesRaynor »
Logged

BillyRueben

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 06:48:19 AM »

Bombers...
My only issue with bombers is that sometimes they decide to drop their payload a little too early and end up bombing my engines. They don't fly through a ship, they fly over it. The strike rally command is your friend when trying to set up a bombing run.

Fighters...
Really? It seems like every time I have fighters attacking a big ship, they circle strafe the hell out of it. I can't think of a better way for them to fly.

All AI ships regard unguided rockets as missiles rather than bullets, and that should be changed.
No idea what you mean by this. The ships avoid them like they should, and they fire their PD defenses at them, which is one of the big advantages to having rockets to begin with.

Ships that are high on hard flux should vent even when being affected by a pressure weapon like graviton/high intensity laser so long as they're not in range of the other weapons.  Furthermore, ships that are faster than the enemy should vent sooner since they can stay out of range more easily.  They also should take advantage of the enemy's acceleration/deceleration stalling when backing off to vent flux or at least drop shielding (Assuming all enemies are out of range/ammo).
This is either already fixed or on the way to being fixed. I think I saw it in the new patch notes.
Logged

Starlight

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • Vulpes Ex Machina
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2012, 08:09:52 AM »

I do agree that fighters need to be more evasive.  I'm sure I've seen a lot of fighters taking a lot more fire then they should have been for lack of evasive manuevers. 

I also agree that the AI does seem to have some difficulty aiming rockets and tends to let them go way too early or with next to no chance of hitting.  This applies to Reaper Torpedoes as well (and my own CCTS.) 

I think good crews go some way towards changing both of these issues (better crews seem to evade and aim better) but at the moment I do beleive we're seeing too many wasted munitions and fighters with Regular or even Veteran crews. 
Logged
Starlight; Vulpine Space-Adventurer.  Fond of lasers.

Reshy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
  • White
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2012, 06:14:15 PM »

Bombers...
My only issue with bombers is that sometimes they decide to drop their payload a little too early and end up bombing my engines. They don't fly through a ship, they fly over it. The strike rally command is your friend when trying to set up a bombing run.

Fighters...
Really? It seems like every time I have fighters attacking a big ship, they circle strafe the hell out of it. I can't think of a better way for them to fly.


Bombers fly into the ship's shield and can hit the ship directly.  Bombers also are subject to more weapon's fire when doing so when they could pull away once their payload is exhausted.


Fighters have the problem of stalling when they start firing, they don't keep moving at full speed.  They do not strafe properly which leads to a lot of unnecessary losses.
Logged

Vandala

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • We need ponies, ponies in spaceships!
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2012, 06:19:12 PM »

Bombers...
My only issue with bombers is that sometimes they decide to drop their payload a little too early and end up bombing my engines. They don't fly through a ship, they fly over it. The strike rally command is your friend when trying to set up a bombing run.

Fighters...
Really? It seems like every time I have fighters attacking a big ship, they circle strafe the hell out of it. I can't think of a better way for them to fly.


Bombers fly into the ship's shield and can hit the ship directly.  Bombers also are subject to more weapon's fire when doing so when they could pull away once their payload is exhausted.


Fighters have the problem of stalling when they start firing, they don't keep moving at full speed.  They do not strafe properly which leads to a lot of unnecessary losses.

But is that a AI problem or are they just losing the 0% flux speed boost due to the weapon fire?

Reshy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
  • White
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2012, 07:00:18 PM »

Bombers...
My only issue with bombers is that sometimes they decide to drop their payload a little too early and end up bombing my engines. They don't fly through a ship, they fly over it. The strike rally command is your friend when trying to set up a bombing run.

Fighters...
Really? It seems like every time I have fighters attacking a big ship, they circle strafe the hell out of it. I can't think of a better way for them to fly.


Bombers fly into the ship's shield and can hit the ship directly.  Bombers also are subject to more weapon's fire when doing so when they could pull away once their payload is exhausted.


Fighters have the problem of stalling when they start firing, they don't keep moving at full speed.  They do not strafe properly which leads to a lot of unnecessary losses.

But is that a AI problem or are they just losing the 0% flux speed boost due to the weapon fire?


They fly straight into enemies spraying weapons then stalling as they try to slow down to start moving in reverse.
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7233
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2012, 09:43:00 PM »

I've also noticed that fighters will try to stay in formation waaaay too much - to the point where only the 'lead' ship in a wing can fire, because the others are trying to stationkeep rather than fight.
Logged

Starlight

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • Vulpes Ex Machina
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 09:57:07 PM »

I've also noticed that fighters will try to stay in formation waaaay too much - to the point where only the 'lead' ship in a wing can fire, because the others are trying to stationkeep rather than fight.

Yes.  I am also not a fan of this.  I've noticed this often. 
Logged
Starlight; Vulpine Space-Adventurer.  Fond of lasers.

Archduke Astro

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • 99 AU from anywhere
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 10:50:42 PM »

I've also noticed that fighters will try to stay in formation waaaay too much - to the point where only the 'lead' ship in a wing can fire, because the others are trying to stationkeep rather than fight.

Yes.  I am also not a fan of this.  I've noticed this often. 

Same here, on both points. In smaller battles, where fighters often comprise a greater total percentage of your fleet's investment as well as combat potential than in big fights, this behaviour is distressing.
Logged
We thought our last moment had come
when we got a message up the voice pipe
saying that 'A' Turret magazine was on fire.....

Vandala

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • We need ponies, ponies in spaceships!
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 11:29:15 PM »

They fly straight into enemies spraying weapons then stalling as they try to slow down to start moving in reverse.
Yeah, that's rather painful. And should be looked at.

NikolaiLev

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2012, 12:01:50 AM »

Can't argue with any of these complaints, to be honest.  I've seen just about every one at some point or another.
Logged


Reshy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
  • White
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2012, 02:02:32 AM »

Can't argue with any of these complaints, to be honest.  I've seen just about every one at some point or another.


The most frustrating one I've met is my Eagle dropping it's shield when it's only at 1/3rd flux right as a paragon fires it's lances.  It's aggravating seeing something so blatant happen in game.  Same with venting, ships vent when they have no choice, instead of when the enemies back off briefly.
Logged

Vandala

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • We need ponies, ponies in spaceships!
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2012, 02:30:04 AM »

Sometimes it is beneficent to vent in the middle of combat and take it on armor. Its a big risk but a valid tactic. But not for all situations and ships.

Reshy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
  • White
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 03:33:36 AM »

Sometimes it is beneficent to vent in the middle of combat and take it on armor. Its a big risk but a valid tactic. But not for all situations and ships.


It's better than overloading or having to vent while the ships are just starting their attack again.
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7233
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback: AI problems
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 06:49:31 AM »

The venting is mentioned in the patch notes (will vent when low flux but not engaged) but I don't know how 'aggressive' the AI will be with it... I guess we'll see.
Logged