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[Killer of Fate]

The argument that SO is boring because, in part, it basically removes some game mechanics (which I assume includes "active venting" and "managing zero-flux boost") doesn't really make sense because SO practically enables a reckless, "berserker" playstyle that sacrifices battle longetivity and survivability for the ability to inflict greater damage in the short-term.

Longetivity is a non issue. Hardened Subsystem exists and every half decent SO build uses it. Even against double Ordos PPT will not be a problem.

As for survavibility, it highly depends on the ship. Are you a low tech ship not designed to fight at arms' length ? Yeah, sure. Are you a midline ship ? It's a bit better, but you tend to have less weapons mounts than low tech ships to spam weapons so why not.

Are you a high tech ship ? Lol. Lmao. 0.6 shield efficiency + 360 ° shield + Elite Field Modulation + S-modded Stabilized Shield = unless I do something really, really stupid, I will not die. In truth, I'm even more resilient thanks to SO.

I find SO boring for the simple reason that SO overwhelmingly favors a tiny number of weapons to the detriment of all others. That certain weapons are more interesting than others on certain ships, and tend to orientate builds, is normal. But SO really focuses builds too much on a hyper-restricted number of weapons.

you're not finding SO boring...
You're finding s-mods boring

But again. Generally High Tech feels necessary to pair SO with cause range limitations are already super harsh. Forcing ships of theirs to go into ranges comparable to that of SO... But eh...

Instead of going into SO, I just tend to coordinate my fleet into cohesive assaults via Full Assault command and proper builds that create enough durability for ships to survive long enough to get into position before a push.

But if you have s-mods. It's true that any sort of strategy is thrown out the window, cause you have strong force advantage. Generally, vice versa applies to Remnants which receive hilarious benefits from elite skills. Hence why I generally despise fighting them...

[PixiCode]

There's almost no ships that 'require SO to be even remotely viable.' This is going off of the idea that 'viable' means 'capable of having suitable impact per DP when used in any 400 battlesize, sub ~700? DP battle.' That's a fun thought experiment though; if you agree with my definition of viable, I would like it if you listed off ships you think require SO to be viable and we could theory it out or even do some testing. If you don't, then I'd like to hear what you think viable means. It's a pretty subjective term I think.

if you list something like the Hermes I will cry, don't do that.

About any changes to SO, I have no strong opinions on it. I have some thoughts on possible changes, but I don't feel confident that they would be smart changes.

Fury.

Spoiler

[close]

I didn't pilot my omen at all, I had it on autopilot while I microed the fleet. I converted two officers into mercenaries so that I would not need to keep the Officer Management skill. Officer conversion to mercenary is a vanilla feature that happens as part of re-speccing out of Officer Management, or really any skill that influences your officers.

Sorry it took a little while, I haven't used Fury very often so it took a bit to get them down. I retreated and re-engaged once to regroup. The build was;

OFFICER: Elite Helms, Elite Missile, Elite OrdExpert, TargetA, EnergyWep, Combat Endurance

HULLMODS: S-mod Armored Weapon Mounts, S-mods Hard Shield, Expand Missile, Front Shield, Integrated Targeting Unit, Automated Repair Unit

WEAPONS: 1 Kinetic Blaster, 2 Ir Pulsers, 2 Mining Lasers, 2 Proximity Charge Launchers

30 Capacitors, no points into vents.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

There's almost no ships that 'require SO to be even remotely viable.' This is going off of the idea that 'viable' means 'capable of having suitable impact per DP when used in any 400 battlesize, sub ~700? DP battle.' That's a fun thought experiment though; if you agree with my definition of viable, I would like it if you listed off ships you think require SO to be viable and we could theory it out or even do some testing. If you don't, then I'd like to hear what you think viable means. It's a pretty subjective term I think.

if you list something like the Hermes I will cry, don't do that.

About any changes to SO, I have no strong opinions on it. I have some thoughts on possible changes, but I don't feel confident that they would be smart changes.

Fury.

Spoiler

[close]

I didn't pilot my omen at all, I had it on autopilot while I microed the fleet. I converted two officers into mercenaries so that I would not need to keep the Officer Management skill.

Sorry it took a little while, I haven't used Fury very often so it took a bit to get them down. I retreated and re-engaged once to regroup. The build was;

OFFICER: Elite Helms, Elite Missile, Elite OrdExpert, TargetA, EnergyWep, Combat Endurance

HULLMODS: S-mod Armored Weapon Mounts, S-mods Hard Shield, Expand Missile, Front Shield, Integrated Targeting Unit, Automated Repair Unit

WEAPONS: 1 Kinetic Blaster, 2 Ir Pulsers, 2 Mining Lasers, 2 Proximity Charge Launchers

30 Capacitors, no points into vents.

I will ignore the fact that you used a weapon that is in-between regular weapons and Omega weapons. As well as the fact that it required a level six officer with three s-mods boosted by a 6% damage increase/decrease, along with officer cheesing. I will also ignore that it took you almost 17 minutes to beat a double ordo.

Overall, good job, you found a loadout that works decently and doesn't require SO on the Fury.

I take it none of the Radiants had Paladins on them?

Before I forget, I'm pretty sure Elite PD doesn't increase the range of the Omen's system.

[PixiCode]

You can farm infinite kinetic blasters easily. Caden’s fleet spawns infinitely (or at least more than often enough to get 20 of them) and each kill gives 4-7 kinetic blasters. It also gives you 1-2 Giga blasters. . I could probably sub kinetic blaster with pulse laser and it would basically be just as effective, but why? Kinetic blaster is not a limited weapon, especially if you’re only using 4 of them. They aren’t above the strength of other non-omega weapons - heavy blaster is still superior as long as you have the flux to afford it. I needed more raw dps against shields than 1 heavy blaster does though. If I sub the kinetic blaster for pulse laser I’d be dealing I believe the same overall damage against hull and it would cost me less flux, but I would deal less overall shield damage by I believe 200 dps.

I don’t understand the aversion to maximizing a fleet to take on as much as it can at once. You could just remove officers and skills and smods to fight fewer enemies at once. What does it matter? This was two large ordos. Just split them apart and fight one if you have a worse fleet.

I feel like you’re being pretty backhanded with your reply. Either say you still disagree or dont, this middle ground of passive aggressive ‘well actually’ is frustrating. What does it matter you mean it took me extra time to win the battle? Am I supposed to be speedrunning it? Is that what you see as viable?

Paladin wouldn’t help the radiants. All that much. First, I used 5 target analysis elite omens to be the emp for these fast ships. Emp goes very well with missiles and the omens were officered with system expertise so that they have bonus range. I would keep at range and slowly pick off the fleet as I could, then pounce whenever I see an opening with eliminate orders. The furies were in very close proximity with the enemy during that time, giving the paladin minimal time to attack the proximity charge launchers paladin also tends to use its charges against enemy ships too. While this is useful to help suppress the enemy with some 600? Energy damage per second, it reduces how effective it will be at stopping the pcl.

I loaded the save pre fight to look at the radiant builds. One was a 5x autopulse typhoon build. Another was an autopulser paladin cyclone build with breaches and gravitons. The final one was 1 plasma cannon and 4 tachyon lances with medium breaches.

I was lucky none of them had medium sabots, but that’s partly why I gave my omens elite pd. You’re right that elite pd does not increase omen emp arc range. The pd skill does boost its damage against missiles and fighters though, I also gave my omens 1 pd burst laser so the range would benefit them. This doesn’t guarantee it will stop sabots, but it improves the chances at least. It also saves me the trouble of using op on advanced optics.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

Spoiler

You can farm infinite kinetic blasters easily. Caden’s fleet spawns infinitely (or at least more than often enough to get 20 of them) and each kill gives 4-7 kinetic blasters. It also gives you 1-2 Giga blasters. . I could probably sub kinetic blaster with pulse laser and it would basically be just as effective, but why? Kinetic blaster is not a limited weapon, especially if you’re only using 4 of them. They aren’t above the strength of other non-omega weapons - heavy blaster is still superior as long as you have the flux to afford it. I needed more raw dps against shields than 1 heavy blaster does though. If I sub the kinetic blaster for pulse laser I’d be dealing I believe the same overall damage against hull and it would cost me less flux, but I would deal less overall shield damage by I believe 200 dps.

I don’t understand the aversion to maximizing a fleet to take on as much as it can at once. You could just remove officers and skills and smods to fight fewer enemies at once. What does it matter? This was two large ordos. Just split them apart and fight one if you have a worse fleet.

I feel like you’re being pretty backhanded with your reply. Either say you still disagree or dont, this middle ground of passive aggressive ‘well actually’ is frustrating. What does it matter you mean it took me extra time to win the battle? Am I supposed to be speedrunning it? Is that what you see as viable?

Paladin wouldn’t help the radiants. All that much. First, I used 5 target analysis elite omens to be the emp for these fast ships. Emp goes very well with missiles and the omens were officered with system expertise so that they have bonus range. I would keep at range and slowly pick off the fleet as I could, then pounce whenever I see an opening with eliminate orders. The furies were in very close proximity with the enemy during that time, giving the paladin minimal time to attack the proximity charge launchers paladin also tends to use its charges against enemy ships too. While this is useful to help suppress the enemy with some 600? Energy damage per second, it reduces how effective it will be at stopping the pcl.

I loaded the save pre fight to look at the radiant builds. One was a 5x autopulse typhoon build. Another was an autopulser paladin cyclone build with breaches and gravitons. The final one was 1 plasma cannon and 4 tachyon lances with medium breaches.

I was lucky none of them had medium sabots, but that’s partly why I gave my omens elite pd. You’re right that elite pd does not increase omen emp arc range. The pd skill does boost its damage against missiles and fighters though, I also gave my omens 1 pd burst laser so the range would benefit them. This doesn’t guarantee it will stop sabots, but it improves the chances at least. It also saves me the trouble of using op on advanced optics.

[close]

To answer this simply, the issue with the Fury is that it backpedals until it gets flux locked and then dies. SO fixes this by giving it enough speed to backpedal safely and vent.
To fix this issue outside of SO, it required you to use a near min max level 6 officer with three elite skills and two s-mods.
The Kinetic Blaster is just a better Pulse Laser as it sacrifices two stats that aren't very important to a Pulse Laser. Which means yes, it's better than standard energy weapons.
You also sacrificed all of your vents for more capacity.
The only way you could have made it even better would have been to swap Energy Weapon Mastery for Field Modulation.
This allowed your Furys to backpedal for long enough to scare enemy ships off with the Kinetic Blaster.

While it worked, it crippled your fleets capacity to kill. This is why it took such a long time to kill the enemy fleet, and is probably why you lost one of your three Retributions, almost lost another, along with two Omens and a Falcon.

No, it's not a speedrun, however when determining the overall strength of a fleet, a ship loadout, or just a ship in general, a combination of factors have to be looked at.
Counter fleets and countering fleets is one metric, this provides the generalized useability. Another is time to kill, this provides not only how efficient a fleet/loadout/ship is but also how difficult an enemy can be before it starts running into issues fighting it. The last is how many enemies it can fight, which gives its endurance.

Your loadout fixes the Fury's endurance problem, it however sacrifices killing efficiency massively, is open to being countered due to relying on PCLs for HE and hull damage, and heavy shielding to backpedal safely.
A double Paladin Radiant would have taken an absurd volume of time for your Fury's to kill. A Radiant with Locusts would have also been an issue as a large chunk of PCLs would never connect. Likewise, as you mentioned, a Nova or Radiant that spammed Sabots would have ruined how the Furys were solving the backpedaling issues. While the first two Radiant loadouts are rare, the others are common.
Although the counter issue is rather minimal in comparison to the time to kill issue.

You are correct, you proved your point, but you would have done far better with any other cruiser and appropriate fleet layout. Except the Grendel.

[PixiCode]

I just don’t see why playing slower is bad. you pointed it out like it’s an obvious issue but, I don’t see that really being an issue. I feel like you’re putting too much value in the playstyle. Fighting slowly and picking the enemy apart is one of my favorite ways to play and it still gets the win, though in this case with some losses becasue furies are not that good. They’re viable, but there’s a good reason I have not used furies very often! Also SD Retribution might also be questionable but that’s the first time I used them. I usually officer retributions, but it was a fun experiment that seemed to synergize with the furies.

Same with knowing the limits of your fleet and just not fighting more than 1 fleet at a time, if your fleet just isn’t as strong because you’re not using the meta builds or ships. That’s why I said I see ‘viable’ as ‘not more than 700 DP’ since any more than that and you’re definitively getting into more than 1 big fleet at a time, which you can avoid on the campaign map with fewer officer levels and less optimization I feel like this fleet could do a smaller battle just fine.

You know, I’ve never really seen locust on remnant before. It’s definitively on their known weapons list. Don’t forget though, targeting analysis elite emp arc emitters. The radiant could have 3 paladins with point defense elite and a majority of the PCL would still end up hitting for reasons I already explained. I had to use 2 pcl since only 1 is much more likely to hit shields on high tech ships, yuck. plus it can’t fire those paladins at its rear, all 3 radiants I killed I did so with surround tactics with 2-4 Furies, 1-2 Retributions and some amount of omens. The Radiant won’t be able to stop those 3 heavy maulers either, and the storm Needler does alright hull damage once armor is stripped. I chose Retributions since they fit the Fury style very well and can wipe out fighters faster than odyssey usually can while still doing lots of ship damage. Odyssey would’ve probably still been a good pick though.

Like I said, I had some answers to Sabots. There’s no way to guarantee having answers to sabots, but it’s there at least.

Anyway, I totally agree that SO Fury is better. 100%. I have posts in this thread discussing with others expressing how SO is an upgrade for almost any high tech ship, meaning  to not use SO is a conscious decision to have a worse ship. There’s a few exceptions but even those exceptions aren’t set in stone.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

Spoiler

I just don’t see why playing slower is bad. you pointed it out like it’s an obvious issue but, I don’t see that really being an issue. I feel like you’re putting too much value in the playstyle. Fighting slowly and picking the enemy apart is one of my favorite ways to play and it still gets the win, though in this case with some losses becasue furies are not that good. They’re viable, but there’s a good reason I have not used furies very often! Also SD Retribution might also be questionable but that’s the first time I used them. I usually officer retributions, but it was a fun experiment that seemed to synergize with the furies.

Same with knowing the limits of your fleet and just not fighting more than 1 fleet at a time, if your fleet just isn’t as strong because you’re not using the meta builds or ships. That’s why I said I see ‘viable’ as ‘not more than 700 DP’ since any more than that and you’re definitively getting into more than 1 big fleet at a time, which you can avoid on the campaign map with fewer officer levels and less optimization I feel like this fleet could do a smaller battle just fine.

You know, I’ve never really seen locust on remnant before. It’s definitively on their known weapons list. Don’t forget though, targeting analysis elite emp arc emitters. The radiant could have 3 paladins with point defense elite and a majority of the PCL would still end up hitting for reasons I already explained. I had to use 2 pcl since only 1 is much more likely to hit shields on high tech ships, yuck. plus it can’t fire those paladins at its rear, all 3 radiants I killed I did so with surround tactics with 2-4 Furies, 1-2 Retributions and some amount of omens. The Radiant won’t be able to stop those 3 heavy maulers either, and the storm Needler does alright hull damage once armor is stripped. I chose Retributions since they fit the Fury style very well and can wipe out fighters faster than odyssey usually can while still doing lots of ship damage. Odyssey would’ve probably still been a good pick though.

Like I said, I had some answers to Sabots. There’s no way to guarantee having answers to sabots, but it’s there at least.

Anyway, I totally agree that SO Fury is better. 100%. I have posts in this thread discussing with others expressing how SO is an upgrade for almost any high tech ship, meaning  to not use SO is a conscious decision to have a worse ship. There’s a few exceptions but even those exceptions aren’t set in stone.

[close]

Assuming you hadn't lost ships and secured kills faster, you may have been able to fight three Ordos with that fleet, which would max out the SP bonus. It's also an issue with certain elite bounties offered by VHI military contacts, and especially an issue with the Omega bounty as the Remnants have s-mods.

SD Retribution is questionable because the Retribution is a bad ship, it needs a rework and possibly a graphical overhaul (it looks odd for a Low-Tech ship and mildly suggestive). The idea of having a support doctrine battlecruiser is a good one that I have used extensively with Novas.
Unfortunately, only the Nova and Retribution work with this idea as Odyssey and Conquest require missile expertise.

[Üstad]

Different effects for different tech would be nice. Current SO would fit on Low Tech/Luddic path good enough.

Since it doesn't make sense for the defensive ships of Midline to get SO, they should be able to fire missiles at cost of big amount of flux and be suspectible to critical damage when armor/hull is damaged. No change in range, flux vents or capacitors. This one is hard to balance admittably.

For High tech, increase in overload duration, shield damage, ship turn rate, %15 damage increase, %20 weapon flux cost increase and slowly regenerating armor.

[helias]

Anyway, I totally agree that SO Fury is better. 100%. I have posts in this thread discussing with others expressing how SO is an upgrade for almost any high tech ship, meaning  to not use SO is a conscious decision to have a worse ship. There’s a few exceptions but even those exceptions aren’t set in stone.

Afflictor, Omen, Shade, lol. Tempest & Wolf are arguable, but I think I'd disagree with it. Hyperion is arguable too after the changes to its ship system, but I think I would agree with it. Haven't used Scarabs too often because I hate looking at them, but I'd agree with SO is better there. Probably TT Brawlers too, but I just haven't used those period.

Harbinger, lol. SO Medusa is pretty good, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's better than Escort Package. It's pretty good on Shrikes too, but they already have a lot of hullmods they want and not a lot of OP to spare; probably still worthwhile though, I'll give you that. Pirate Shrikes definitely do not have the OP to support SO though, and you can make a case that the hybrid slot makes them better than baseline Shrikes.

Doom, lol. Aurora & Fury are definitely better with SO though, as has been discussed so often to this point.

That's six ships that definitely prefer having SO over not, versus three where it's debatable one way or the other, and six where you really should not be running SO. You can't take SO on capitals so they obviously can't be considered, though I definitely would if I could because that sounds fun. Either way, I don't think it's fair to say that SO is an upgrade for almost any high-tech ship. If you don't count phase ships it's much closer, but I don't that's a fair thing to do either.

[Princess of Evil]

Don't knock HA SO Doom till you try it. It's hilarious.

[kaoseth]

Personally, I think it's time for SO to remade.  Here's what I'd do.   

First, remove all penalties, and change OP cost to normal range. 

Second remove SO's speed bonus and range penalty, and retire the Unstable Ignition hullmod.  Make a new stat for "Engine Overthrust" that behaves like "Flux Vents" and "Flux Capacitors".   Each OP spent into it gives a small speed boost and range decrease.  (speed boosted/range penalty per point based on ship size).  This way you keep access to the speed/range tradeoff and any ship can access it. 
 
Third, SO becomes "Weapon use causes X% less flux and has a chance to cause EM damage to both hull and weapon.  This damage can't be reduced."  This makes SO the dangerous thing that the words "Safety Override" implies.  (Only Steady and below aggression stops firing when at low hull). 

[PixiCode]

To Hellas;

To preface again since what you quoted misses the context (at no fault of your own, I have too many posts here) of my discussions here, my gripe is that most HT ships get straight upgrades with SO, which either means either with SO the ships have the PPT to work in a slower playstyle fleet or, the point that I underlined in my other posts, the ‘best’ way to use that high tech ship is by making your whole fleet SO since your ppt will be low anyway. Then that low ppt makes you need to rush your gameplay, likely with full assault since SO ships cover each other pretty well with SO and slower kills means ppt lost. I’m not really against SO being best for some ships, but I am against how it encourages deliberately avoiding the hullmod or rushing your gameplay if you want to use certain HT ships.

Remember, SO makes a ship potentially do more, sometimes a lot more, with their DP and I would argue for most HT ships that ‘more’ is better than the longer PPT, less impact of not having SO.

Afflictor and Shade - give it the phase tuning skill, wolfpack, hardsub and combat endurance and I think SO is great on these ships, the more speed a phase ship has the better the AI can pilot it. I say ‘think’ since I haven’t tested SO on them so I’m not going to argue one way or another, could be with phase tuning and helms alone they have enough speed and having more doesn’t improve it.

Omen - loves getting SO. More opportunity to use emp arc emitter which iirc won’t get reduced range, more opportunities to get AMBlaster hits, more speed to avoid damage, the higher flux might even make it more survivable with field modulation elite. While it’s a ‘sometimes’ exception that can also  be used as an escort or harasser for a slow playing fleet, it still has pretty low PPT. Not low enough to make it unusable for that role obviously, but I don’t think it’s best-in-class for that reason.

Tempest - it just does much more with SO than without. The flux gets fixed, 600 vs 450 range is not much of a concern for such a fast ship, its drones die by design anyway so keeping range to preserve drones is whatever.

Wolf - Same as Tempest, but I have literally never used wolf [P] so, just a forewarning there.

Scarab - I have used Scarab a lot - but only non-SO ones. I do assume it gets better impact per DP with SO even keeping in mind the ppt issues, but since I’ve barely used SO Scarab that’s just an assumption

TT Brawler - unless you’re using beams, TT Brawler is a uniquely DP efficient way to spam gravitons, I don’t see why you wouldn’t use SO. More opportunities to hit AMBlasters, more opportunities for ion pulser action, more flux for heavy blaster. Less chance for the brief moment Plasma Jets isn’t online to be caught out. I don’t think beam spam fleets are anything more than viable right now, but hey that’s a slight exception.

Hyperion - This is a case where SO isn’t just an upgrade, Hyperion might require SO to get its DP value when piloted by the AI. It’s a great ship but the AI just doesn’t seem to get much impact to warrant all the investment if you don’t give it SO. At the least it’s a big power upgrade.

Harbinger - SO is arguably the best AI-piloted build for Harbinger. Arguably since it’s not proven obviously, but here’s why I assert that. The top speed helps fix Harbinger AI. Phase tuning helps counteract the SO PPT penalty, too. I actually tested this one a lot since I used it in a vanilla tourney.

Medusa - I only really see Escort Package on this thing as a companion to a short range capital. Retribution, not-beam Odyssey, Storm Needler Prometheus. In those cases, I’d use S-Mod escort package and SO together. I think Escort Package Medusa for the range is ok, but given how strong Sunder and Manticofe are for that role and how good Medusa is when it isn’t tied next to a capital, I don’t see it. One thing I know though is that Medusa can be used for an endurance battle’s flanks - keep the medusa in a corner of the map far away to conserve ppt, Rush them in to secure flanks/rear, hide again. SO Medusa could do this faster and so maybe conserve ppt overall, but I haven’t tested it.

Shrike - I’ve used  non-SO Shrikes and SO Shrikes before. They actually strongly enjoy the SO buff since it helps fish them out of any bad situations their system put them into. SO Shrike seems to live longer on average even with lower PPT, though Shrike is still prone to death either way. Pirate Shrike has enough OP for SO. Either it’s early in the game when you don’t actually need as many hullmods that you hinted at and the power increase of SO is more valuable, or it’s late game and you have 2-3 smods to give Pirate Shrike.

SO Doom - this might be a case similar to the Harbinger. Line the Omen System range should be unaffected, top speed might fix phase ai, phase tuning gives enough ppt to counteract SO. I haven’t used it in AI hands yet though, so idk.

[SCC]

Do you use Detailed Combat Reports mod? What was the highest pro-rata DP for your SO Harbinger?

[PixiCode]

Detailed combat results (as far as I know :0) doesn’t work on the main menu mission screen, I used the PvP mission AI Battles to test Harbinger builds for the tourney I referenced. I’m curious to see if it would get higher than your what was it, 78 pro rata DP harbinger?

The tourney was in 0.96 so it’s possible ai changes from then to now have changed it, or ai changes in a future patch could change it more.

EDIT: I did some preliminary testing today, setting up a little fleet based off of a Harbinger-featuring (one) fleet that SCC did. So far it's probably... around the same strength? I suck at piloting SCC's Radiant fleets since I have no experience at it, but I got a few glances at the Harbinger and it was absolutely kicking ass before it reached 33% hull. PPT wasn't even the issue. It probably ran into some annoying phase beam glimmer or something, I saw a tachyon brilliant somewhere around the fleet too.

Maybe I'll change my opinion to SO Harbinger being better than non-SO Harbinger if it's in a wide fleet, but reverse that if it's a taller fleet without Coordinated Maneuvers? Needs more testing.

[Megas]

Hyperion - This is a case where SO isn’t just an upgrade, Hyperion might require SO to get its DP value when piloted by the AI. It’s a great ship but the AI just doesn’t seem to get much impact to warrant all the investment if you don’t give it SO. At the least it’s a big power upgrade.

Problems I had with non-SO Hyperion...

1) AI did not teleport away from danger when it is safe to escape and vent.  Instead, it wastes more-or-less half of its PPT backpedaling (one time, I saw it waste one minute doing nothing but backpedaling), kind of like Fury.  Non-SO Hyperion is surprising slow when it does not use its teleporter.  With SO, it can backpedal away fast enough.

2) Not enough dissipation to support non-missiles in all three mounts.  Without SO, I have to undergun or use no-flux missiles in the universal.