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[happycrow]

Alex,

"Scythian" -- Extremely fast dedicated Pilum launcher next. 

[Draba]

I also think it's a few too many lines of text just to make paladin OK on 1 ship.
Not even sure it'll be that attractive here, stats+mounts+temporal shell = gigacannons+reapers+some PD fighter to me.
Have to try ofc, and making gigacannon decent on something is also a win.

[Killer of Fate]

I also think it's a few too many lines of text just to make paladin OK on 1 ship.
Not even sure it'll be that attractive here, stats+mounts+temporal shell = gigacannons+reapers+some PD fighter to me.
Have to try ofc, and making gigacannon decent on something is also a win.

if it works then why not?

[THEASD]

So, will WEAPON FLUX/SEC reflect the actual FLUX produced by the weapon now?

In the past, modifications to weapon firing rate and direct to weapon FLUX will not be reflected in this number, which is weird.

[PixiCode]

I'd say it's probably take 1! The Champion wasn't meant to be primarily a PD cruiser, though making the Paladin decent on it was something that I aimed for. I think it still *is* decent, just not enough to overcome the other options.

I don’t know if this is useful information, but in 0.97 ive been using Paladin in only two not-joke ways,

Paladin Sunder bruiser, Paladin Sunder support for paragon tachyon spam and the companion to a plasma cannon on the Prometheus2.

For the Sunder, I find it’s really potent to fit it with paladin, 2 light needlers and 2 phase lances. Its still not a particularly durable destroyer but it’s a very cheap to setup independent build (no smods or officer needed)for the early game which also severely bullies any and all frigates, destroyers and shieldless ships. And then for paragon beam spam it’s just nice to have a whole lot of paladins focus on 1 flanking frigate and see it evaporate.

For the prometheus2, it’s got a surprisingly high top speed so it can be built with a plasma cannon playstyle. Paladin just happens to suit it nicely in that case, it gets the same EWM bonuses (if any) and it’s not like the prometheus2 can afford much else at that point.

I’m not sure the paladin will be used for a true PD role in any further cases with the 0.25 buff - it might see some new hybrid uses, such as a fun HSA SO Champion and heavy blasters? Goofy idea, idk. Either way, it’ll make builds that enjoy the paladin feel even better, which is nice. And obviously it’ll fit the Anubis very well. Interested to see how it plays out.

[Brainwright]

3 heavy energies, temporal shell- man I see why it's so heavily nerfed
I wonder how it'd go shield shunted

This person gets it.

This ship is a platform for temporal shell.  The 1/2 penalties to everything are due to the fact time dialation is so powerful.  The Scarab is gated by its limitation to small energy weapons.  This thing will largely be able to float in and out of combat at will, recharging its paladins every time.  It looks like it will be very hard to pin down.

I plan to use it to anchor small squadrons of destroyers and frigates. It's pretty hard to split a fleet and encircle the opponent before the outcome is already decided.  Maybe this will fare better.

[TheLaughingDead]

Yep, the temporal shell (and gigacannon's existence) looks to be a liiittle overlooked in some of these comments. This ship is going to be a beast. Even at 20 DP it would be decent, but I somehow expect its DP to be lower. Put your bets in now, I'm guessing 18 DP!

[Vanshilar]

Yep, the temporal shell (and gigacannon's existence) looks to be a liiittle overlooked in some of these comments. This ship is going to be a beast. Even at 20 DP it would be decent, but I somehow expect its DP to be lower. Put your bets in now, I'm guessing 18 DP!

Based on the first screenshot, with 182 DP available to be deployed but with the player having deployed an Onslaught and an Anubis, if the player has 240 DP then this would work out to 18 DP for the Anubis.

[Tranquility]

I noticed this line from the blog post about the penalties for Design Compromises:

• The rate of fire of missile weapons is halved

But the picture for the hullmod says "the rate of fire for missile weapons is reduced by 50%", with similar wording as the one for EMR's S-Mod penalty ("Reduces rate of fire of missiles by 20%"). In other words, it's just increasing the refire delay for missiles weapons by 50%, not 100% - which is what "halving" would presumably mean in the context of nerfing. Is it intended to be a 50% penalty (i.e. 50% longer refire delay) or a 100% penalty?

...

Based on the first screenshot, with 182 DP available to be deployed but with the player having deployed an Onslaught and an Anubis, if the player has 240 DP then this would work out to 18 DP for the Anubis.

The screenshot showing the Anubis monofleet seems to corroborate this. I counted 10 Anubis (give or take 1 or 2; a few are shown as off-screen icons, and I'm not if those icons still show up for the ones still visible on the screen edge), and there's 60 DP available to deploy on the player's side. Assuming a full 240 DP deployment, it works out to 18 DP per Anubis, which is what you've also calculated for the first screenshot!

[Amazigh]

- It does deal hard flux damage from its explosion -

Unless you've changed how the script works, then the paladins explosion doesn't. The script (at least currently) specifically doesn't do any damage to the target of the beams, so a paladin is only a hardflux source if you install High Scatter Amplifier, and that feels more like a "meme build" than something standard/serious to me.

- it's not *that* far off from doing primary-weapon-levels of damage, so if all of a sudden you can focus more of them on the same target, while shooting over friendly ships, etc...

Paladin is (at least currently) at best loosely comparable to the Autopulse Laser, (i'm not comparing it to the gigacannon despite having the same sustained DPS, because of the extreme hitstrength of the gigacannon) but has only 2/3 of the sustained DPS, 2/3 of the hitstrength (1000 "damage/sec", split into 5 beams each at 200 damage/sec, then halved to get 100 hitstrength)
In terms of burst damage the Autopulse has over double the burst output, but eats through its charges (roughly) twice as fast so there is a more even comparison there, but you have to consider that when combined with the paladin being soft flux damage, and being less effective against armor it's not as close anymore.
But then we get to the real issue with using the paladin as an offensive weapon, (and this issue even has an impact on its use as a PD weapon!) it is a short duration burst beam. Due to how burst beams work, you very rarely get the actual listed damage with every pulse, due to the in-engine beam damage tick calculation not lining up with the actual time the beam is active.
I did some basic and easily repeatable testing to give an example of this:
Sim Atlas (1.0 shield) single Paladin shots, I saw damage values from single shots ranging from 143 to 180, when they should be doing 200, so i was losing somewhere from ~10%-30% of each shots damage.
And if you then take this burst beam bug/issue into account when looking at the paladins stats (let's average it at a 20% loss as that seems somewhere around the average from testing) you get: ~533 burst DPS, 160 sustained DPS, and that's far less appealing as far as damage values go for a large weapon.

 This was a bit of a wall, but TLDR: paladin isn't all that great as an anti-ship weapon in the first place, and does less damage than it's statcard suggests because of an engine "bug" with how beams work.


I think if the goal is "make people use the paladin more" then rather than cutting flux/damage from 0.75 to 0.25, it might be better to only go down to 0.4-0.5, but increase the damage it deals by somewhere from 20-50%.

Yep, the temporal shell (and gigacannon's existence) looks to be a liiittle overlooked in some of these comments. This ship is going to be a beast. Even at 20 DP it would be decent, but I somehow expect its DP to be lower. Put your bets in now, I'm guessing 18 DP!

From the screens shown, with no caps and no skills the ship has 7200 flux capacity to start with (and any flat bonuses (Caps/Ordnance Expertise) will scale slower thanks to design compromises)
Due to the doubled flux cost to fire energy weapons, Gigacannon is going to cost 3000 flux per shot. that's nearly half of your capacity to fire a single shot, imho that sheer fraction of your flux bar to fire a shot is going to make gigacannons far less appealing than you might think at first.

[Bungee_man]

I see that the threads here on Paladins and large energies were noted upon. It does go to show how useful Temporal Shell is, that a ship can have those kinds of debuffs and still be viable (partially because it doubles as an increase in soft flux dissipation).

One thing I'm a little worried about that other people address is that Xyphos is almost always going to be a more appealing option, since it's such a fast ship. Bombers would theoretically work for a dedicated support build, though - it'll be interesting to see whether anyone builds it as a 'super Sunder', escorting capital ships with a set of HILs and Advanced Optics to force shields up and finish off fluxed-out targets, with a Paladin and TS mitigating its usual vulnerabilities.

[TheLaughingDead]

From the screens shown, with no caps and no skills the ship has 7200 flux capacity to start with (and any flat bonuses (Caps/Ordnance Expertise) will scale slower thanks to design compromises)
Due to the doubled flux cost to fire energy weapons, Gigacannon is going to cost 3000 flux per shot. that's nearly half of your capacity to fire a single shot, imho that sheer fraction of your flux bar to fire a shot is going to make gigacannons far less appealing than you might think at first.

This thing, it is true! And I hadn't considered that. I do feel that the temporal shell's x3 dissipation will help in that regard. Also worth noting, the second screenshot shows substantially better flux stats (12k cap and 700 dis), but I'm not sure which one is "real" (or possibly neither, since these are development pictures).

[Syfa]

I would love to see an option for it to get another bay (eg, adding a line to design compromises that allows it to use converted hangar to take it from 1->2, similar to how the invictus has vast hangar) so it could *potentially* function as a light carrier or a defensive targeting array skirmisher. I'd also love to see some support fighters that actually wield gravitons.

To launch into some of my gripes about energy weapons, it really feels like big parts of it need rebalancing, the non-specialized damage can be quite frustrating. I'd love to see some "light gravitons" or something.

Overall I like this ship, though I must say it feels like a weird "super-champion" alternative-tech design that trades its light mounts and large missile for a fighter bay, some more speed, and temporal shell.

[Tranquility]

...

This thing, it is true! And I hadn't considered that. I do feel that the temporal shell's x3 dissipation will help in that regard. Also worth noting, the second screenshot shows substantially better flux stats (12k cap and 700 dis), but I'm not sure which one is "real" (or possibly neither, since these are development pictures).

You also have to consider that the Temporal Shell system generates 25% of base flux capacity as soft-flux every time it is used. At the Anubis' base flux capacity stat of 12000, each system use is 3000 flux, which translates to it using a little over 40% of the Anubis' 7200 nerfed flux capacity. And due to the Anubis also having a 40% penalty in flux dissipation, it has a harder time dissipating off the soft-flux burst from Temporal Shell, limiting the burst potential further.

That said, 1 Gigacannon might still be fine, especially since the long reload time is partially-compensated by the 3x timeflow bonus from Temporal Shell. I could see a 1 Gigacannnon/2 Paladin build working out pretty well as a general-purpose escort cruiser, or perhaps as an mobile anchor for faster high-tech ships.

[Caymon Joestar]

I’m on the camp of the ship trying to push paladins/gigacannons so much that it ends up becoming limited in the number of fits in the attempt to not just spam 3 tactys.

I been thinking on a possible alt way of getting the same result without limiting it so heavily

I think lowering the OP of Large Energy with the Point-Defense tag by 5-10 and raising the OP of other Large Energies by 10 with reducing the flux generation from double to 50% while keeping the other 2 debuffs would get the same result

Though you would have to reduce the amount of op it has because idk if 170 is the final amount but that’s an awful lot with so few slots