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[Phenir]

What orders are you even using? You can get a lot of value out of one point. My usual battle plan is to set some defend orders along the middle of the map, or closer to my side if I am fighting a faster opponent, at the start of the battle and set up escort orders. I also usually build pretty wide fleets so I don't have to worry about my onslaughts (their low dp cost helps a lot with this) getting flanked so they can fully focus on what is in front of them. Then just let the enemy come to me and mulch them.

[ocd]

What orders are you even using? You can get a lot of value out of one point. My usual battle plan is to set some defend orders along the middle of the map, or closer to my side if I am fighting a faster opponent, at the start of the battle and set up escort orders. I also usually build pretty wide fleets so I don't have to worry about my onslaughts (their low dp cost helps a lot with this) getting flanked so they can fully focus on what is in front of them. Then just let the enemy come to me and mulch them.

Go to place, shoot target. They struggle immensely with these 2 orders. You can't not get flanked in end game. Unless you're willing to field unofficered ships which is an absolute no from me they are trash enough with officers

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

You're sleeping on the Dominator, seriously, it bullies Radiants with ease.

Could be true, as I've never tested it, but I doubt it.

I will concede that if you go all Onslaught and don't pilot a ship and then issue an order every 1 minute and use the console to outfit them and reload the battle many times it will eventually do something impressive but in a standard iron man game where you also want to pilot none of that happens.

Onslaught works just fine for me, regardless of if I'm piloting or if I'm giving it to an officer. I don't have to use the console to outfit them, generally using the same loadout against all enemy fleets, and reloading generally isn't required unless I don't want to get any D-mods on any ship - and the Onslaught doesn't tend to be the one receiving them. It's very survivable and has a strong weapons loadout. If you don't want to engage with the tactical map mode a lot, just put some escort orders down at the start of the battle and chill. You can perform pretty well that way with a Low Tech fleet, although it isn't optimal and you will probably need more to do big Ordo battles. And the micro managing you have to do to "optimise" Low Tech isn't that bad, I'd say a Midline fleet is worse in that regard, requiring more attention.

Go outfit a Dominator and watch it do a better job at what the Onslaught is supposed to do for a much cheaper cost, a Capital being "just fine" is a waste of officers and dp tbh. I rarely give my Odyssey or Conquest orders they just do their thing. Have to escort the Onslaught personally because AI cannot escort without blocking it's guns constantly. So it's a Capital that needs constant instruction as shown in those videos and it also makes you escort it limiting the flagship because it's stuck on escort duty rather than just killing things quickly.

>Complains about Onslaught just spinning to fight frigates it doesn't need to worry about.
>Says a Cruiser that has only two medium ballistic mounts needed for PD, and two hardpoint large mounts is better.

Likewise, under similar conditions the Odyssey and Conquest require the same volume of orders.

Hector never recorded a five Ordo with five Conquests as they don't have the stats to survive it without something to tank.

[ocd]

You're sleeping on the Dominator, seriously, it bullies Radiants with ease.

Could be true, as I've never tested it, but I doubt it.

I will concede that if you go all Onslaught and don't pilot a ship and then issue an order every 1 minute and use the console to outfit them and reload the battle many times it will eventually do something impressive but in a standard iron man game where you also want to pilot none of that happens.

Onslaught works just fine for me, regardless of if I'm piloting or if I'm giving it to an officer. I don't have to use the console to outfit them, generally using the same loadout against all enemy fleets, and reloading generally isn't required unless I don't want to get any D-mods on any ship - and the Onslaught doesn't tend to be the one receiving them. It's very survivable and has a strong weapons loadout. If you don't want to engage with the tactical map mode a lot, just put some escort orders down at the start of the battle and chill. You can perform pretty well that way with a Low Tech fleet, although it isn't optimal and you will probably need more to do big Ordo battles. And the micro managing you have to do to "optimise" Low Tech isn't that bad, I'd say a Midline fleet is worse in that regard, requiring more attention.

Go outfit a Dominator and watch it do a better job at what the Onslaught is supposed to do for a much cheaper cost, a Capital being "just fine" is a waste of officers and dp tbh. I rarely give my Odyssey or Conquest orders they just do their thing. Have to escort the Onslaught personally because AI cannot escort without blocking it's guns constantly. So it's a Capital that needs constant instruction as shown in those videos and it also makes you escort it limiting the flagship because it's stuck on escort duty rather than just killing things quickly.

>Complains about Onslaught just spinning to fight frigates it doesn't need to worry about.
>Says a Cruiser that has only two medium ballistic mounts needed for PD, and two hardpoint large mounts is better.

Likewise, under similar conditions the Odyssey and Conquest require the same volume of orders.

Hector never recorded a five Ordo with five Conquests as they don't have the stats to survive it without something to tank.

But it shoots its guns at the target and kills them, Onslaught doesn't simple as that.

I don't care about these videos they show nothing other than anyone with enough time can brute force a win through console and save scumming is has no bearing on actual gameplay.

Since were bring up pointless examples, the Dominator kills the Onslaught in the sim in about 3.5 seconds does this prove anything? No? These videos are the same as using the sim to say x is good actually

[Mishrak]

It's hard for anyone to take what you're saying seriously when you don't want to have a conversation in good faith imo.  You want everyone to accept your view as being correct and any evidence to the contrary is something you don't care about.

This thread is definitely going places.

[ocd]

It's hard for anyone to take what you're saying seriously when you don't want to have a conversation in good faith imo.  You want everyone to accept your view as being correct and any evidence to the contrary is something you don't care about.

This thread is definitely going places.

How about show all the failures of those fights? Where we will see the AI doing silly things that you KNOW it does but won't admit for some reason? Cherry picking a 1 in 500 attempt and calling it proof is that not bad faith?

[PixiCode]

OCD, could you post a video of Dominators carrying a fleet against 2 ordos of remnant with 0 losses of dominators? That would probably help prove your point. I think dominators are better than most people I talk with let on (elsewhere in the community, not on the forums) but I struggle to think dominators are better than onslaught.

[ocd]

OCD, could you post a video of Dominators carrying a fleet against 2 ordos of remnant with 0 losses of dominators? That would probably help prove your point. I think dominators are better than most people I talk with let on (elsewhere in the community, not on the forums) but I struggle to think dominators are better than onslaught.

So it can get nerfed? Nice attempt

Maybe i'll put a video together, that's hours of gameplay though why not just try them yourself?

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

But it shoots its guns at the target and kills them, Onslaught doesn't simple as that.

I don't care about these videos they show nothing other than anyone with enough time can brute force a win through console and save scumming is has no bearing on actual gameplay.

Since were bring up pointless examples, the Dominator kills the Onslaught in the sim in about 3.5 seconds does this prove anything? No? These videos are the same as using the sim to say x is good actually

It doesn't. Dominator struggles to fight anything that doesn't park itself in front of it. It's bad against most of the frigates and destroyers, struggles exceptionally vs all the Cruisers that have movement systems, especially once System Expertise officers come into play, and is out gunned by most capitals. It rarely concentrates fire due to target switching unless it is given a reckless officer and an eliminate order.

The Dominator also armor tanks, which means it turns off center to tank hits on fresh armor. Guess what happens when it does this? It no longer has a firing arc on its main two guns.

An AI controlled Dominator with any build without s-mods or officers vs Sim Onslaught always loses regardless of build. There are some builds that when player piloted can beat Sim Onslaught. Which isn't much of an achievement due to the Sim Onslaught using a bad build, and a Hound with a Mauler being able to achieve the same thing by shooting it in the back.

I'm 100% convinced you're trolling at this point. Post build and most probably mods or shoo.

[ocd]

But it shoots its guns at the target and kills them, Onslaught doesn't simple as that.

I don't care about these videos they show nothing other than anyone with enough time can brute force a win through console and save scumming is has no bearing on actual gameplay.

Since were bring up pointless examples, the Dominator kills the Onslaught in the sim in about 3.5 seconds does this prove anything? No? These videos are the same as using the sim to say x is good actually

It doesn't. Dominator struggles to fight anything that doesn't park itself in front of it. It's bad against most of the frigates and destroyers, struggles exceptionally vs all the Cruisers that have movement systems, especially once System Expertise officers come into play, and is out gunned by most capitals. It rarely concentrates fire due to target switching unless it is given a reckless officer and an eliminate order.

The Dominator also armor tanks, which means it turns off center to tank hits on fresh armor. Guess what happens when it does this? It no longer has a firing arc on its main two guns.

An AI controlled Dominator with any build without s-mods or officers vs Sim Onslaught always loses regardless of build. There are some builds that when player piloted can beat Sim Onslaught. Which isn't much of an achievement due to the Sim Onslaught using a bad build, and a Hound with a Mauler being able to achieve the same thing by shooting it in the back.

I'm 100% convinced you're trolling at this point. Post build and most probably mods or shoo.

Post your build then I'll tell you where you've messed up. No mods, never mods. Though I did change my weapon arcs to periwinkle blue but that's only like a 5% power increase.

[Mishrak]

Post your build then I'll tell you where you've messed up. No mods, never mods. Though I did change my weapon arcs to periwinkle blue but that's only like a 5% power increase.

no u

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

But it shoots its guns at the target and kills them, Onslaught doesn't simple as that.

I don't care about these videos they show nothing other than anyone with enough time can brute force a win through console and save scumming is has no bearing on actual gameplay.

Since were bring up pointless examples, the Dominator kills the Onslaught in the sim in about 3.5 seconds does this prove anything? No? These videos are the same as using the sim to say x is good actually

It doesn't. Dominator struggles to fight anything that doesn't park itself in front of it. It's bad against most of the frigates and destroyers, struggles exceptionally vs all the Cruisers that have movement systems, especially once System Expertise officers come into play, and is out gunned by most capitals. It rarely concentrates fire due to target switching unless it is given a reckless officer and an eliminate order.

The Dominator also armor tanks, which means it turns off center to tank hits on fresh armor. Guess what happens when it does this? It no longer has a firing arc on its main two guns.

An AI controlled Dominator with any build without s-mods or officers vs Sim Onslaught always loses regardless of build. There are some builds that when player piloted can beat Sim Onslaught. Which isn't much of an achievement due to the Sim Onslaught using a bad build, and a Hound with a Mauler being able to achieve the same thing by shooting it in the back.

I'm 100% convinced you're trolling at this point. Post build and most probably mods or shoo.

Post your build then I'll tell you where you've messed up. No mods, never mods. Though I did change my weapon arcs to periwinkle blue but that's only like a 5% power increase.

All three standard Autofits, double Hellbore was the only one that did hull damage, and it was 100% because the Onslaught was being stupid and didn't want to back off.
Double Devastators, Railguns and Annihilators failed for AI as it tries to active vent and then tries turning to armor tank. Works for player as the Sim Onslaught has no HE damage outside of its missiles.
Gauss + Breach fails for AI as AI won't stay out of Annihilator range. Works for player assuming Onslaught doesn't repeatedly burn drive.

I couldn't find any other builds with the large weapons that worked as I would always get overwhelmed by the Onslaught Annihilators. Likewise, their flux cost is too much for the Dominator, and they either don't get fired or the AI active vents even sooner than other builds, resulting in a faster death for the Dom.

In terms of missiles, Dragons failed due to Onslaught shooting them down. Reapers failed as they get shot down / eaten by Annihilators. PCL only works at stopping incoming Annihilators but get shutdown by Hypervelocity Drivers the moment shields go down. Resistant flux conduits only buy a little time for the PCL. Harpoons fail too much PD. Jackhammer fails, same reason as Reaper. Sabot doesn't do much as the Onslaught almost always drops shields and armor tanks.

No Dominator build that can kill Sim Onslaught with player piloting kills it quickly, 3.5 seconds is impossible obviously, but less than 30 seconds is also likely impossible outside of abusing AI bugs.
No AI Dominator build can kill Sim Onslaught.

[Will01]

Your right, test ops claims and it wont actually make sense, but I'm not sure its supposed to.

This is certainly a bait of all time.

[PixiCode]

No Dominator build that can kill Sim Onslaught with player piloting kills it quickly, 3.5 seconds is impossible obviously, but less than 30 seconds is also likely impossible outside of abusing AI bugs.

I just did it for fun just now. No officer, no smods. Even with a 3 typhoon SO dominator with devastators and thumpers going to the rear of the onslaught, ~50 seconds (due to extra time it takes to get behind the onslaught). Frontal assault with similar build (replaced thumpers with hmg), ~50 seconds. Tried swapping out for mjolnirs, not much luck with that. With smods/officer it's really easy just using Target Analysis Elite.

I didn't strictly time these, I just subtracted ~9 seconds from each of the simulation times to account for the time spent burn driving to each other.

I even tried it with xyphos from the front, it made it much safer but I wasn't really able to get the reapers onto the onslaught before incoming damage disabled the typhoon launchers.

[Thaago]

While I like Dominators and find they are strong ships once they have a bit of maneuverability boost from skills/hullmods, Onslaughts outclass them by a large margin. Range, firing arcs, gun firepower, force concentration, officer concentration, etc all favor the Onslaught. Dominators have a decent logistical advantage, in burn speed and operating costs; that might matter to a player or might not.

The officer concentration is big if you're worried about being outnumbered, because you can put the "saved" officer onto a smaller ship and use it either as an escort or as a hunter/killer, depending on what kind of ships you're using.

You mentioned in your original post that the Dominator catches ships while the Onslaught doesn't. That is really weird, because a Dom is speed 30 vs an Onslaught speed 25. That's not a meaningful difference. Saying that a Dominator can kill anything faster than an Onslaught is also strange, because Onslaughts have far more firepower pointed in a much wider direction, with more flux to support it, on top of more range and more missiles to back them up. The Dominator has to point at its target; Onslaughts don't.

To be blunt, it sounds like you're building bad Onslaughts. The comments about leaving missiles empty and frigates harassing it are not great signs; the missiles are very powerful and an Onslaught has more OP to spare than a Dominator, so why would the latter be able to afford them and not the former? Frigates shouldn't be able to approach an Onslaught without taking enough damage to push them back, unless the Onslaught is already fluxed out from fighting another capital. Are you not mounting anything but PD weapons on the sides/rear? An Onslaught can have at least a large + 2 mediums firing in something like a 300 degree arc (with more firepower in most of it), with 2 mediums firing straight back, while still maintaining 360 PD coverage from other mounts.