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[Siffrin]

Give the Apogee 9 burn so it can be used in 20 burn exploration fleets. Swapping a small hardpoint for a medium one wasn't really worth it for a 2 DP increase but I don't want to make the Apogee stronger in combat since the Champion already exists so instead how about we make its exploration aspect better?

[Sandor057]

I don't see the need to buff its logistical side. Graviton + HIL + Squall + Converted Hangar builds are decent enough as it is. If you really want that extra burn, a hullmod exists for that.

[Siffrin]

If you really want that extra burn, a hullmod exists for that.

24 OP is a lot for the Apogee and at that point why not just take an Eradicator with surveying equipment? It's silly how the exploration focused cruiser isn't the best option for an exploration fleet that wants cruisers.

[Aeson]

If you really want that extra burn, a hullmod exists for that.

24 OP is a lot for the Apogee and at that point why not just take an Eradicator with surveying equipment? It's silly how the exploration focused cruiser isn't the best option for an exploration fleet that wants cruisers.

While the Eradicator is generally a better combatant than the Apogee, I would call the suggestion that it's a better cruiser for an exploration fleet than the Apogee rather dubious - as compared to the Eradicator, the Apogee has four times as much cargo capacity, more than double the crew capacity (or six times the excess crew capacity, since it can carry 300 more than its minimum whereas the Eradicator can carry only 50 more than its minimum), almost twice the fuel capacity, half the fuel consumption per lightyear, and built-in high-resolution sensors and surveying equipment that can both be upgraded with story points without sacrificing s-mod slots.

Beyond that, combat presumably isn't the primary focus of an exploration fleet, an adequately-supported Apogee will do well enough against most pirate, Domain Explorarium, and Remnant fleets even if it's burning 24 OP or an s-mod slot on Augmented Engines, and the difference between 8 and 9 base burn is not usually that significant anyways.

[Megas]

Apogee is slow compared to other high-tech cruisers.  Why should Apogee be faster than Aurora on the map?

If burn 20 is that important to Apogee, then Augmented Engines is the way to go.  That said, that hullmod is not always available for sale early when it is needed.  At least Apogee does not need to pay for Militarized Subsystems for burn 8 like Venture (low-tech alternative) does.

[Sandor057]

If you really want that extra burn, a hullmod exists for that.

24 OP is a lot for the Apogee and at that point why not just take an Eradicator with surveying equipment? It's silly how the exploration focused cruiser isn't the best option for an exploration fleet that wants cruisers.

Yep, that is an S-mod slot if you really want it. I'd rather bring 2 oxen though and leave it at that. As is, the Apogee has plenty going for it and I don't miss it being the most optimal choice. I actually like how you have to, at least to a certain extent, balance things between speed, supply and fuel consumption, exploration, salvage and survey efficiency.

[PixiCode]

Yep, that is an S-mod slot if you really want it. I'd rather bring 2 oxen though and leave it at that. As is, the Apogee has plenty going for it and I don't miss it being the most optimal choice. I actually like how you have to, at least to a certain extent, balance things between speed, supply and fuel consumption, exploration, salvage and survey efficiency.

I just so happened to skim to your post-

Using an S-mod on a cruiser for ADF has two issues. The first and least subjective is that you only get 25% or so bonus exp for spending that stet point - you’ll only get the other 75% once, if, you scuttle the ship. Which is a bit of a downer, I like spending story points for maximum bonus exp when in the early game.

The second, it just feels bad using Smods on purely logistic Hullmods on ships that use up combat DP. that’s a smod slot that could have gone to anything else more exciting.

Both above issues are fixed by getting 1-2 ox and smodding it to have insulated engine and efficiency overhaul. You get 100% (or was it 75?) bonus exp immediately and you’ll probably keep the ox until you give up the save, anyway.

______________

One issue I have with ox is how they interact with the 30 ship limit. I wish we had like, 5 slots for civilian ships to slot into that ignores the 30 ship limit.

[Megas]

One issue I have with ox is how they interact with the 30 ship limit. I wish we had like, 5 slots for civilian ships to slot into that ignores the 30 ship limit.

For me, it is Field Repairs.  240 DP limit on Field Repairs is for all ships, not combat ships like it is for Crew Training and Flux Regulations.  This means 240 DP fleet of combat ships get less repairs after combat rounds because civilians that are also in the fleet eat into the DP pool.

[PixiCode]

For me, it is Field Repairs.  240 DP limit on Field Repairs is for all ships, not combat ships like it is for Crew Training and Flux Regulations.  This means 240 DP fleet of combat ships get less repairs after combat rounds because civilians that are also in the fleet eat into the DP pool.

I agree that field repair affecting all ships is a little silly. Nobody cares about the repair speed of logistic ships, right?

[Rusty Edge]

I think it's for ships like buffalo Mk 2, venture(any), Prometheus MK2 and Atlas MK 2. All of these are fighting ships with civilian hulls that an industry focused player is likely to use- and lose on a regular basis.
 It works very well with derelict operations, seeing that DO reduces total DP cost of your fleet. You kind of have to be getting a lot of your ships blown up to get the full benifits of field repairs.

I don't see anything wrong with raising the DP limit on this one, so long as we don't lose any of the benefits.

[Sandor057]

This is starting to turn into a different topic altogether, but it would be nice if you could select which ships would and would not be affacted by DP/Hangar/otherwise capped skills.

[Doctorhealsgood]

This is starting to turn into a different topic altogether, but it would be nice if you could select which ships would and would not be affacted by DP/Hangar/otherwise capped skills.

Would be great yes.

[Cruacious]

Just use an Ox tug.

[Siffrin]

Just use an Ox tug.

And deal with that horrendous logistics profile in the early-mid game? No thanks.

[Killer of Fate]

Just use an Ox tug.

And deal with that horrendous logistics profile in the early-mid game? No thanks.

early to mid game lasts like 5% of the actual game duration