Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hydremajor]

Also most heavy low-tech ships have really crappy shield efficiencies, it's a waste of flux to use the shields much on an Onslaught or Dominator. You'll chew on their armor for a long time.

Hellbore Conquest says hi

About the Ion cannon:
It pains me to say it but this weapon, damage wise, is utterly useless, the only point of using that weapon would only be to abuse flameouts like a shameless ***, there's nothing more to it, slap them on a tempest and butt-savage just about any ship that can't turn fast enough OR has a FRONT type shield...even if the engines kick back online you can bust em instantly, that weapon is absurdly useless to anything with a OMNI shield though...

About the Gravition beam:
Now first it doesn't have "a kick to it" as someone said its just that the beam knocked out the engines of the fighter, and as much I dislike saying it, he got HORRIBLY nerfed since last version, I DON'T KNOW HOW, but now it is pretty much an oversized pee-shooter, Burst PDs do more damage than that when they are NOT SUPPOSED TO, PD weapons are here to take out FIGHTERS and MISSILES, not FRIGATES and DESTROYERS, I'd recommend taking Phase beams instead seeing how pathetic the Graviton's damage output became or even freaking pulse lasers if your ship can stomach the flux of it...

About Fragmentation damage:
Its the damage of the freaking PDs, what'd you expect ? thermo-nuclear explosions ? its made to hit small and lightly armored targets if a PD weapon could take out frigates I'd flip a table over it since it ain't SUPPOSED to do anything of the sort....

About Energy Damage:
If what someone said is true and energy damage REALLY IS only 50% on armor then you just said yourself Mjolnir cannons are sh*t for THEIR damage type is energy AND I remember Alex saying they don't benefit from the Flux buff, just saying, I don't use thoses buggers myself anyways so I couldn't care less to be honest...Hell I don't even know if plasma cannons even get that buff...

[PCCL]

how is using flame outs comparable to being a "shameless ***"? Personally I use ion guns on faster ships to kill off hounds and fighters and disable front shield ships. It's an EMP weapon, saying it's useless damage wise is like saying the salamander is useless damage wise

yes, grav beam fail now... rip 

frag damage is great for hull busting, if you can take someone's armor down then get close enuff for vulcan fire it's basically gg

pretty sure kinetic is %50 on armor, energy is 100 on everything, plasma cannons are full energy so they get the best of both worlds really, hard flux damage AND high flux bonus (gotta love those energy assault weps)

[Mattk50]

might be a good idea to buff the damage of all beam weapons to make up for the whole soft flux thing.

[Dreyven]

I don't really know what's the issue...
Beam weapons are really good... i love them

Burst PD is really strong since the update

Graviton beam is hilarious... if you can get 2 or 3 pointing on your enemy, his ship is rendered useless and you can just pound away (every gravtiton beam gives your ship a 150 flux dissipation advantage over your opponent)

tac lasers are generally awesome, good compromise between damage, flux, range and incredible precise

The "soft flux" doesn't really hurt them, they are support weapons, dealing with fighters or suppressing your opponent...
also something you have to look at is their flux/dmg ratio
beam weapons are about 1 dmg per flux, NO "normal" energy weapon can reach this ratio which makes beam weapons quite good

[Aratoop]

Beam weapons are only there so the enemy is forced to keep their sheilds up whilst the rest of the fleet fires at the ship. They are not used for being the only weapons to attack a ship.

[hydremajor]

Graviton beam is hilarious... if you can get 2 or 3 pointing on your enemy, his ship is rendered useless and you can just pound away (every gravtiton beam gives your ship a 150 flux dissipation advantage over your opponent)

Yeah but here's the thing

That flux dissipation works AGAINST you

The idea of energy weapons is to ride the flux levels as high as possible while avoiding overload to maximise damage

That "soft flux" is a major problem since its actual flux that can dissipate even if one's shields are up

whereas kinetic damage deals "hard flux"
This kind of flux cannot be dissipated with your shields up and require to either vent or juggle through your weapons at max range possible
its the most annoying type of flux to deal with

Its two completely different worlds to sum it up simply

Gravitons are supposedly made to breach through shields but for that to happen you'd need to have the ennemy ship go full-*** with his weapons (usually on YOUR own shields) and next to no AI ship build uses weak energy weapons (here's a shocker, no AI build uses graviton I'm fairly sure save for the wolf perhaps)

To be quite honest I've been itching to see how a Wolf with mining blaster or even heavy blaster would do....And yet I'm not really fond of thoses Flux heavy weapons, so REALLY ITS TO THAT POINT....

personaly I think Burst PD do TOO MUCH damage to ships like frigates and destroyers

I mean:

I play Forlorn Hope with a custom Paragon design and breezes right through it
(score still indicates 50% even though I took no hull damage or any armor damage even noticeable)

Believe it or not my paragon has only 4 burst PDs mediums and yet half my frags were from thoses one-upping lasher classes on their own....

Also could the autopulse lasers be brought back to what they used to be ?

That new energy cell thing they put on it was a crippling nerf if anything, don't even want to touch a Odysee myself anymore cuz of that...

Beam weapons are only there so the enemy is forced to keep their sheilds up whilst the rest of the fleet fires at the ship. They are not used for being the only weapons to attack a ship.

You do realise you just said beam weapons are virtually useless right ?

Plus, tell that to Apogees, Paragons and Sunders...

Also as a side note, I was actually right when I mis-phrased something

Plasma cannons DO generate 1k flux per SHOT LEAVING THE BARREL

If you don't believe me make an apogee with max vents and fire a salvo of plasma cannon, enjoy your 3k+ flux spike...

[Dreyven]

The idea of energy weapons is to ride the flux levels as high as possible while avoiding overload to maximise damage

that's actually not true... yes, energy weapons do get a damage boost when you have a lot of flux
but! they are also found mostly on high tech ships which rely solely on their shield for staying alive, this would suggest that you want to keep your flux down, to not die

Gravitons are supposedly made to breach through shields but for that to happen you'd need to have the ennemy ship go full-*** with his weapons (usually on YOUR own shields) and next to no AI ship build uses weak energy weapons (here's a shocker, no AI build uses graviton I'm fairly sure save for the wolf perhaps)

yet still the wolf is actually really strong

Firing a graviton beam takes 75 flux per second and does 200-300 dmg per second versus shields (Depending on the flux boost)
this makes it amazingly effective at up to 4 dmg/flux

since it only produces soft flux it's produced flux counts as upkeep (similiar to regular shield upkeep)
it doesn't build up any flux if it doesn't overdose the flux dissipation, rather it get's substracted from the dissipation rate

a dominator has 750 flux per second with 30 vents
if you hit it with 2 graviton beams, it has about 250 dissipation left (taking the average of the graviton beam)
but! the dominator has 225 shield upkeep, so in reallity... it has 25 dissipation left
it won't build up any flux on it's own
but good luck firing any of it's weapons... you won't believe how fast the flux will build up on the enemy ship when it fires any weapons

and that is with 30 vents... any less and those 2 graviton beams will put the flux dissipation below 0 and build up soft flux on the shields

[Thaago]

...
Gravitons are supposedly made to breach through shields but for that to happen you'd need to have the ennemy ship go full-*** with his weapons (usually on YOUR own shields) and next to no AI ship build uses weak energy weapons (here's a shocker, no AI build uses graviton I'm fairly sure save for the wolf perhaps)

I don't think gravitons are meant to breach shield like other kinetics - they are meant to pressure other ships and stop them from being able to use shield and fire at the same time. I do think they need a bit of a boost for their OP cost, but even now they make excellent support weapons due to their excellent range.

The other variant I'm aware of that uses graviton beams is the Eagle (and I use them on my Eagle as well). They are excellent on that ship. Deadly against fighters and just amazing when combined with heavy maulers.

To be quite honest I've been itching to see how a Wolf with mining blaster or even heavy blaster would do....And yet I'm not really fond of thoses Flux heavy weapons, so REALLY ITS TO THAT POINT....

personaly I think Burst PD do TOO MUCH damage to ships like frigates and destroyers

I mean:

I play Forlorn Hope with a custom Paragon design and breezes right through it
(score still indicates 50% even though I took no hull damage or any armor damage even noticeable)

This means you are playing on half damage mode. Go into your settings (the second tab) and change your settings to full damage. It greatly changes the feel of the game.

Believe it or not my paragon has only 4 burst PDs mediums and yet half my frags were from thoses one-upping lasher classes on their own....

Also could the autopulse lasers be brought back to what they used to be ?

This I disagree with strongly! I feel they are about twice as powerful as they used to be. That initial burst of 1000 DPS for 1.5/2.25 seconds is crazy good.

...

The soft flux for beams is both intentional and imo a very good idea. Otherwise the beam weapons would have drastically better efficiencies than other energy weapons. As it stands, unless a high tech ship decides to tank up and stop firing, it is not going to be riding the hard flux line so the difference is pretty moot in a hard fight. For hit and run it does matter a lot more though. I do agree though that the graviton beam and hil need a small damage boost.

[Alrenous]

impact - "Mostly not used anymore. At one point weapons would actually rattle the target around as they hit it, but it never felt just right. The only remnant of that is the graviton beam uses it, which makes it totally screw up any fighter it hits, and is not noticeable against anything else." ~Alex




The stock Paragon, on full damage, breezes through Forlorn Hope now. Hardly even need to raise shields. I took the Piranha bombs and a couple pilums on it.

[KDR_11k]

Beams generate soft flux because you can't dodge them. Anything else can be dodged (in theory).

[Mattk50]

they can be by anything faster than you. Range control, etc, not to mention its impossible to dodge lots of other stuff with fast projectiles. Not a good reason for such a huge nerf imo unless they also get increased damaged across the board.

[StahnAileron]

Beam Weapons: I've always considered them mainly as support weapons. Mainly for pressuring vessels and as anti-frigate/fighter fire. I'm fine with how there in-game mechanics work right now. I think they help balance out and complement the capabilities of the "pulse" energy weapons which are much more demanding to use (flux) and more effective at punching through shields/armor. Beam weapons keep up constant fire for relative cheap flux cost. The other energy weapons tend to be much more costly in flux and very "bursty" in damage output. I think if Beam weapons did hard flux dmg, it would really shift the balance in their favor too much compared to the current effects.

Graviton Beam: Stock designs for the Wolf and Eagle use this weapon. Also, the "kick" from them can work on frigates as well, not just fighters. I recall a fight I had in 0.52.1a where I was flying a frigate against a Graviton Beam-armed vessel. I believe this fight was me in a Hyperion vs an Eagle (3x Grav Beam). While it didn't "kick" and "bounce" me around, it did affect my heading (I had to constantly turn to maintain my aim/heading) as well as my speed (had to keep my finger on the throttle. Otherwise, the Grav Beam makes an excellent anti-fighter weapon due to it's range, power, flux rate, "kick", and "instant hit" (accuracy) traits.

Fragmentation Damage: It's noted in-game that frag dmg is meant mainly as a type of PD-specific damage. It can kill fighters pretty well (and missile-type fire). Effective against frigates too. Against destroyers i'st more limited, but still somewhat viable. It's Cruisers and above that frag dmg is useless for.

[Upgradecap]

Fragmentation damage is top-notch if the enemy ship has a hole in it's armor. It can cause huge damages to hull if you actully manage to get through the armour of the ship.

[Reshy]

Fragmentation damage is top-notch if the enemy ship has a hole in it's armor. It can cause huge damages to hull if you actully manage to get through the armour of the ship.

But even a small fragment of armor horribly blunts the damage.  Making it relatively useless unless you stripped all the armor off... and by that point they should be about dead anyway.

[Thaago]

On frigates this is about right, but not for larger ships. A Hammerhead has 500 armor and 5000 HP, an Onslaught has 1750 armor and 20000 HP. The armor can fail and theres still a lot of ship behind it .