Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Snek7X]

quick question, is there a way to make the ability "insipire" work on nexerilin using SiC?, since it requeries 2 leadership points im unable to use it during invasions

[Phenir]

Are there any plans on integrating Industrial Planning in SiC somewhere - possibly Management?

Nah, dont think colony related skills would really work in SiC.

Maybe as a level up bonus? Like the officer bonuses.

[Lukas04]

quick question, is there a way to make the ability "insipire" work on nexerilin using SiC?, since it requeries 2 leadership points im unable to use it during invasions

issue is fixed on nexerelins dev branch, so will be working when the next update for nex drops.

Are there any plans on integrating Industrial Planning in SiC somewhere - possibly Management?

Nah, dont think colony related skills would really work in SiC.

Maybe as a level up bonus? Like the officer bonuses.

I feel like level up bonuses are already pretty well populated, so idk

[Warriorcatv2]

For me the 3-slot limit is a core aspect of the mod, so its not something i will change. Its there to encourage different kinds of builds on both the skill side, but also in how you you shape your fleet, so for example saves where maybe you just dont have access to automated stuff for once. A large part of the mod is pretty much designed to break myself out of the habits i put myself in to in Vanilla, and personaly the game has become a lot more fun because of that.

Maybe in the future i could add another tree with an automation skill, not super likely though. Emergent Threats has a tree with a +90 points automated skill however.

Ah, that's understandable. Overall it's just a minor niggle in an otherwise spectacular mod, again though, that is just my personal preference. I don't think adding another skill tree would be necessary, just adding the option to increase or decrease the number of exec officers you could have at one time via Lunalib though I have no idea if that's doable.

[Lukas04]

New Update! Now with a new Aptitude, which comes with low-tech adjacent skills.
Changelog & Download: https://github.com/Lukas22041/SecondInCommand/releases/tag/1.2.0

[Shoat]

New Update! Now with a new Aptitude, which comes with low-tech adjacent skills.
Changelog & Download: https://github.com/Lukas22041/SecondInCommand/releases/tag/1.2.0

Neat!
Is this mod safe to update mid-playthrough or does it break ongoing saves?

[Lukas04]

New Update! Now with a new Aptitude, which comes with low-tech adjacent skills.
Changelog & Download: https://github.com/Lukas22041/SecondInCommand/releases/tag/1.2.0

Neat!
Is this mod safe to update mid-playthrough or does it break ongoing saves?

This specific update is save compatible with anything from 1.1.0 to 1.1.8.
I generaly note if the update is save compatible or not in the changelog.

[greenbanana]

Sick mod.

Do you think you could also introduce semi rare officers that have set randomized skills between each aptitude? And maybe instead of restricting overlapping skills, they have diminishing effects?

[Lukas04]

Sick mod.

Do you think you could also introduce semi rare officers that have set randomized skills between each aptitude? And maybe instead of restricting overlapping skills, they have diminishing effects?

Not really what i am interested in doing with this mod, sorry.

[Krim]

Can I add this mod mid-save?

[Lukas04]

Can I add this mod mid-save?

Its not really something i tested for, i would recommend not to, but aside from some minor issues it may work. The earlier in to a save, the better, generally.

[Okay]

This mod is absolutely fantastic. Great work. Just used it for this first time in my most recent playthrough and I really should've tried it earlier! Some of the skills are very cool and interesting. "Safe recovery" in smallcraft for example is a really great one. UI looks great, integrates seamlessly with the basegame and perfectly functional. Well done all around, and thank you for making this mod.

I do have some feedback which, hopefully, is actually constructive.

The leveling experience:
Unlike vanilla where you're slowly progressing through skills as you level. With this mod all my officers are leveling at the same rate and going from 0 capstones for a prolonged period then suddenly getting 3 capstones all at once doesn't feel quite right. Also I had 15 skills unlocked well before I was level 15, and I even swapped some officers for new ones.

Suggestion:
One of your 3 active XOs gets bonus exp (top slot?) and overall total exp required to level cap increased. Bonus when level capped: unassigned officers also acquire EXP. I get that you don't want to have to use all the officers actively to level them later on, but moving the unassigned passive gain to level 15 gets you a more engaging early-mid game while letting you try out builds late game freely without grinding, and you can still shuffle officers early on at the cost of a couple officer levels.

You could also tie the number of active XO skills to the player level, but I'm guessing you didn't do this because it a hassle to deal with while also letting you freely swap XOs.

General Feedback on a handful of skills:
"Emergency order" from Starfaring would work better in Piracy. More specifically removing the CR penalty for using Emergency burn. You want to preserve CR when using Emergency burn to attack something. If you're using it avoid a battle it's not really an issue. Flavour wise it fits with piracy more IMO. Either give "outmanoeuvred" + 1burn speed while using Emergency Burn and no CR hit on Emergency burn or make it it's own Piracy skill. If you want to keep an EB bonus to Starfarer, remove it's fuel cost there which is more in line with conserving resources while exploring.

"Well organized" in management. This skill has got to be by far the worst skill in any tree by a mile. It should be replaced with something else that presents the player with an actual choice. While I generally don't want to pronounce myself on "balance" issues. This one is particularly egregious bad.

Suggested replacement:
"Tactical retreat"
+25% speed, manoeuvre and damage reduction to a ship when it is given a retreat order.
I don't know if this is possible. If not, give it this bonus but when a ship's hull is at 75/60/45/30% based on hullsize possibly with a bigger speed boost and no damage reduction one. Either way this would pair up nicely with the Re-entry skill in the same tree.

"Authority" in Management: This skill does nothing until battles aren't big enough to spawn objectives or in battles that never have objectives like battlestation battles. I'd add "If there are no objectives, this skills bonuses apply as if player controlled 1-2 objectives"

Improvisation tree:
Currently this tree is like a Derelict + defensive tree. However if someone wants to take this tree for a non-derelict strat you'll have no capstone and you'll have to pick 2/3 out of mobilization/enhanced overrides/redistribution which are all niche and specific skills. I'd add a generic non-derelict capstone here. 20-25% free hull repair on ships in battle if they dip below 50%? Scrap the mobilization skill or combine it with the SO one.

Rest of the trees/skills are mostly fine overall. Haven't gotten the Abyssal XO yet in my playthrough so I can't speak on that one. Neither have I tried the other mod-specific unique officers (Although I suppose it would be up to them to balance them correctly).

Extra Feedback on the 2 logistics skill trees in general.
It's been said before in this thread, and I still use them because of QoL, but choosing between trees that are entirely about bonuses outside of combat vs in combat doesn't feel good at all. It even feels like it goes against the spirit of the mod in general "Having to choose between personal combat skills or general fleet upgrades". Now it's replaced with "choosing between general QoL skills or fleet upgrades". Also Alex's initial rework of the skill tree had the whole industrial tree be basically only QoL stuff on release IIRC and that was one of major criticisms. I'm very much thinking about it in a "don't let the player optimize the fun out of the game" way, same way as transverse jump is now no longer permanently locked behind a skill.

I'd say bite the bullet, and lock the player into 1 logistics slot and 2 or 3 combat slots and balance the mod around that (give AI more trees on average or let the AI get upto 4 trees total if you give us 3 combat slots). Then remove the few general combat bonuses from logistics trees and purely logistics bonuses out of combat trees. Skills that are primarily combat skills but give extra flavour out of combat bonuses like "Magnetic Shielding" in Automation are still totally fine imo.

If you do decide to go with a locked logi slot, there was also another poster that was talking about industrial planning type skills, so I whipped up a "colony/alliances/trade" focused logistics tree. (I would personally never pick industrial planning, a total meme skill IMO), but it one of the most divisive skills when 0.95 dropped. People were either super mad about colony skills forcing you to go 10 points in industry to have "optimal" colonies or the industry capstones being 100% useless.

Anyways here's a possible colonial logistics tree with some extra Nexrelin bonuses thrown in too.

Diplomacy:
Civilian Convoys
Ships with Civilian grade hulls +2burn speed
(nex) +50% agent travel speed

Rapid response
All ships in faction (not just your fleet but your colonies fleets)
+1burn to faction
+15% out of combat Manoeuvrability
(nex) requested fleets form faster

Inspiring presence
+1 skill choices when leveling an officer
+30% effectiveness of ground operations
Hidden bonus: Marine bar event gives a much greater number of marines.
+1 stab to colonies
+1 bonus to faction officer quality (Like when you go in command -> doctrine and blueprints and you have the "fleet composition & doctrine pips")
(nex) -2 to "recent uprising" stability penalty when conquering a planet

Charismatic
-75% monthly cost to officers and administrators
+25% income bonus from commission (kills, monthly etc)
+25% effectiveness of ground defenses
(nex) Agent actions are free/cheaper

Civilian Trade
All ships with civilian grade hulls:
+50% cargo capacity
+25% fuel capacity
-50% crew requirements
-50% Maintenance/fuel costs

Shared communications
Gain bonuses from all buoys in systems owned by friendly factions
Additional +1nav/+1stab/+400 sensor strength from buoys owned by your own faction
Receive 1 XO's combat bonuses from if fighting with them in a battle
Share one of your XO's combat bonuses to allies if fighting with them in a battle

(I don't know how feasible this is, but it would be a cool situational bonus IMO)

Fleet preservation
Ships more likely to be recoverable after battle
+25% salvage from battles/battle debris
+1 bonus to faction ship quantity (fleet composition & doctrine pips)
-50% crew losses in battle (including fighters)
Lower chance for D-mod recovering own or allied ships after combat

Frontier operations
-50% Survey & colonization requirements and cost.
-30% cost for hazard pay
-50% hazard penalty to building maintenance (so 150% hazard planet would have the costs of a 125% hazard planet, 250 would be 175%, 100% or lower unchanged). Alternatively just flat -15% or something is simpler but less flavourful.
+15% post-battle salvage including weapons from automated ships

Industrial planning (capstone skill)
+1 production to industries
+50% maximum value of custom ship and weapon production per month

Free Trade Agreements (2nd capstone skill)
+25% access
+1% growth to colonies
-50% colony crisis gain rate
(nex) Lowers chance of alliance declaring war on you
(nex) Bonus success chance to agent actions on other factions

With this you'd have 3 logistics trees, each one focused on either making more money from exploring, fighting, or colonies/helping allies.
Additionally I'd consider moving the militarized subsystems skill out of improv and making 2 different flavours of it for Starfarer/Piracy. Diplomacy wouldn't get it since it's bonuses are based on civilian grade hulls, and it gets the "fighting with allies" combat bonus instead. I'd make the Starfarer one more defensive (+PD weapons range, -damage received, +ECM) and make a piracy one that's more aggressive (+flux,+speed,+damage). This would also allow flexibility with meme civilian ship builds without locking you into a particular combat tree.

Anyways, thanks again for all the effort you've already put into the mod. It's one I plan on using on again in the future for sure.

[Sly]

I've been enjoying tinkering with this mod so far. I like the character it adds, though I miss some of the fluff of the vanilla skill tree. There's a lot of versatility, though not without a cost. A good, vanilla-adjacent approach.

One big issue is that it's nearly impossible to find the Phase Anchor hull mod. Since it doesn't come with a skill anymore, you have to rely on RNG. In just my last game it took me cycles to find it. Needless to say, that's not ideal. Maybe something can be done?

[Lukas04]

This mod is absolutely fantastic. Great work. Just used it for this first time in my most recent playthrough and I really should've tried it earlier! Some of the skills are very cool and interesting. "Safe recovery" in smallcraft for example is a really great one. UI looks great, integrates seamlessly with the basegame and perfectly functional. Well done all around, and thank you for making this mod.

I do have some feedback which, hopefully, is actually constructive.

The leveling experience:
Unlike vanilla where you're slowly progressing through skills as you level. With this mod all my officers are leveling at the same rate and going from 0 capstones for a prolonged period then suddenly getting 3 capstones all at once doesn't feel quite right. Also I had 15 skills unlocked well before I was level 15, and I even swapped some officers for new ones.

Suggestion:
One of your 3 active XOs gets bonus exp (top slot?) and overall total exp required to level cap increased. Bonus when level capped: unassigned officers also acquire EXP. I get that you don't want to have to use all the officers actively to level them later on, but moving the unassigned passive gain to level 15 gets you a more engaging early-mid game while letting you try out builds late game freely without grinding, and you can still shuffle officers early on at the cost of a couple officer levels.

You could also tie the number of active XO skills to the player level, but I'm guessing you didn't do this because it a hassle to deal with while also letting you freely swap XOs.

General Feedback on a handful of skills:
"Emergency order" from Starfaring would work better in Piracy. More specifically removing the CR penalty for using Emergency burn. You want to preserve CR when using Emergency burn to attack something. If you're using it avoid a battle it's not really an issue. Flavour wise it fits with piracy more IMO. Either give "outmanoeuvred" + 1burn speed while using Emergency Burn and no CR hit on Emergency burn or make it it's own Piracy skill. If you want to keep an EB bonus to Starfarer, remove it's fuel cost there which is more in line with conserving resources while exploring.

"Well organized" in management. This skill has got to be by far the worst skill in any tree by a mile. It should be replaced with something else that presents the player with an actual choice. While I generally don't want to pronounce myself on "balance" issues. This one is particularly egregious bad.

Suggested replacement:
"Tactical retreat"
+25% speed, manoeuvre and damage reduction to a ship when it is given a retreat order.
I don't know if this is possible. If not, give it this bonus but when a ship's hull is at 75/60/45/30% based on hullsize possibly with a bigger speed boost and no damage reduction one. Either way this would pair up nicely with the Re-entry skill in the same tree.

"Authority" in Management: This skill does nothing until battles aren't big enough to spawn objectives or in battles that never have objectives like battlestation battles. I'd add "If there are no objectives, this skills bonuses apply as if player controlled 1-2 objectives"

Improvisation tree:
Currently this tree is like a Derelict + defensive tree. However if someone wants to take this tree for a non-derelict strat you'll have no capstone and you'll have to pick 2/3 out of mobilization/enhanced overrides/redistribution which are all niche and specific skills. I'd add a generic non-derelict capstone here. 20-25% free hull repair on ships in battle if they dip below 50%? Scrap the mobilization skill or combine it with the SO one.

Rest of the trees/skills are mostly fine overall. Haven't gotten the Abyssal XO yet in my playthrough so I can't speak on that one. Neither have I tried the other mod-specific unique officers (Although I suppose it would be up to them to balance them correctly).

Extra Feedback on the 2 logistics skill trees in general.
It's been said before in this thread, and I still use them because of QoL, but choosing between trees that are entirely about bonuses outside of combat vs in combat doesn't feel good at all. It even feels like it goes against the spirit of the mod in general "Having to choose between personal combat skills or general fleet upgrades". Now it's replaced with "choosing between general QoL skills or fleet upgrades". Also Alex's initial rework of the skill tree had the whole industrial tree be basically only QoL stuff on release IIRC and that was one of major criticisms. I'm very much thinking about it in a "don't let the player optimize the fun out of the game" way, same way as transverse jump is now no longer permanently locked behind a skill.

I'd say bite the bullet, and lock the player into 1 logistics slot and 2 or 3 combat slots and balance the mod around that (give AI more trees on average or let the AI get upto 4 trees total if you give us 3 combat slots). Then remove the few general combat bonuses from logistics trees and purely logistics bonuses out of combat trees. Skills that are primarily combat skills but give extra flavour out of combat bonuses like "Magnetic Shielding" in Automation are still totally fine imo.

If you do decide to go with a locked logi slot, there was also another poster that was talking about industrial planning type skills, so I whipped up a "colony/alliances/trade" focused logistics tree. (I would personally never pick industrial planning, a total meme skill IMO), but it one of the most divisive skills when 0.95 dropped. People were either super mad about colony skills forcing you to go 10 points in industry to have "optimal" colonies or the industry capstones being 100% useless.

Anyways here's a possible colonial logistics tree with some extra Nexrelin bonuses thrown in too.

Diplomacy:
Civilian Convoys
Ships with Civilian grade hulls +2burn speed
(nex) +50% agent travel speed

Rapid response
All ships in faction (not just your fleet but your colonies fleets)
+1burn to faction
+15% out of combat Manoeuvrability
(nex) requested fleets form faster

Inspiring presence
+1 skill choices when leveling an officer
+30% effectiveness of ground operations
Hidden bonus: Marine bar event gives a much greater number of marines.
+1 stab to colonies
+1 bonus to faction officer quality (Like when you go in command -> doctrine and blueprints and you have the "fleet composition & doctrine pips")
(nex) -2 to "recent uprising" stability penalty when conquering a planet

Charismatic
-75% monthly cost to officers and administrators
+25% income bonus from commission (kills, monthly etc)
+25% effectiveness of ground defenses
(nex) Agent actions are free/cheaper

Civilian Trade
All ships with civilian grade hulls:
+50% cargo capacity
+25% fuel capacity
-50% crew requirements
-50% Maintenance/fuel costs

Shared communications
Gain bonuses from all buoys in systems owned by friendly factions
Additional +1nav/+1stab/+400 sensor strength from buoys owned by your own faction
Receive 1 XO's combat bonuses from if fighting with them in a battle
Share one of your XO's combat bonuses to allies if fighting with them in a battle

(I don't know how feasible this is, but it would be a cool situational bonus IMO)

Fleet preservation
Ships more likely to be recoverable after battle
+25% salvage from battles/battle debris
+1 bonus to faction ship quantity (fleet composition & doctrine pips)
-50% crew losses in battle (including fighters)
Lower chance for D-mod recovering own or allied ships after combat

Frontier operations
-50% Survey & colonization requirements and cost.
-30% cost for hazard pay
-50% hazard penalty to building maintenance (so 150% hazard planet would have the costs of a 125% hazard planet, 250 would be 175%, 100% or lower unchanged). Alternatively just flat -15% or something is simpler but less flavourful.
+15% post-battle salvage including weapons from automated ships

Industrial planning (capstone skill)
+1 production to industries
+50% maximum value of custom ship and weapon production per month

Free Trade Agreements (2nd capstone skill)
+25% access
+1% growth to colonies
-50% colony crisis gain rate
(nex) Lowers chance of alliance declaring war on you
(nex) Bonus success chance to agent actions on other factions

With this you'd have 3 logistics trees, each one focused on either making more money from exploring, fighting, or colonies/helping allies.
Additionally I'd consider moving the militarized subsystems skill out of improv and making 2 different flavours of it for Starfarer/Piracy. Diplomacy wouldn't get it since it's bonuses are based on civilian grade hulls, and it gets the "fighting with allies" combat bonus instead. I'd make the Starfarer one more defensive (+PD weapons range, -damage received, +ECM) and make a piracy one that's more aggressive (+flux,+speed,+damage). This would also allow flexibility with meme civilian ship builds without locking you into a particular combat tree.

Anyways, thanks again for all the effort you've already put into the mod. It's one I plan on using on again in the future for sure.

Cant really respond to everything here, but on the topic of the XP curve, i am personally pretty happy with how it is at the moment. I dont personaly think it needs much of a change.
You can decrease the XP gained in the configs, though of course that doesnt address all of the issues you mentioned.

I cant agree on the way Logistical aptitudes are handled on being an issue, on the contrary ive seen it be a pretty big part on players personal expression through the system. You can most definitly skip out on Logistical aptitudes, you just gotta make sure your fleet is well build for it, and i like that this is a choice you can make. Some people will immediately go with 3 combat aptitudes, some will keep a logistic aptitude until they get a colony, and some keep one always, atleast for the duration of a save. Im not quite a fan of a logistics lock, just feels to forced. While when im talking about the mod, i most commonly talk about the combat aspects, i think the larger part is the effect on the fleet as a whole, and aslong as an aptitude manages to have some influence there, i think it works pretty well.

I've been enjoying tinkering with this mod so far. I like the character it adds, though I miss some of the fluff of the vanilla skill tree. There's a lot of versatility, though not without a cost. A good, vanilla-adjacent approach.

One big issue is that it's nearly impossible to find the Phase Anchor hull mod. Since it doesn't come with a skill anymore, you have to rely on RNG. In just my last game it took me cycles to find it. Needless to say, that's not ideal. Maybe something can be done?

Not gonna lie, i just forgot the skill provides the hullmods in vanilla. I will add that back.

[basileus]

This mod is fantastic.  I used it together with the debt obligation from Nex both for the first time.  Wow.  I lose 15-50k credit each month, and have to run enough missions to pay for that and colony upgrades.  Not to mention the fact that I cannot get IP means I have to buy administrators with it whenever I see them, even if it will be many cycles before I can actually afford to slot all of them.  I have to be so much more aggressive taking missions/bounties and less focused on exploration, but I feel like the purple line capstone has caused me to ultimately turn up more rare resources anyway.

10/10.