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Author Topic: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption  (Read 699 times)

TaLaR

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Re: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2024, 11:51:52 PM »

Disabling enemy weapons would be very useful as part of a phase pack! Phase ships are constantly taking attrition from little chunks of damage even when they fly well, and Harbingers are fragile, so giving itself enough time to unload while protecting others would be nice.

Its also a less "unfair" ability so could be longer ranged.

This would make Harbinger mostly an enemy ship to grief the player (since I assume weapon disruption will have more range/duration, and player is the only thing on battlefield extremely sensitive to unavoidable long range disruptions - AI can't avoid the avoidable ones anyway). Or maybe an allied AI support ship. Definitely not a player ship - player should focus on delivering damage.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 11:59:29 PM by TaLaR »
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Thaago

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Re: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2024, 12:37:52 AM »

To be fair, the player in a Harbinger already deals very high damage. Triple phase lance + phase anchor is a very strong punch and it even has acceptable (if not super great) range (600*(1.2+possibly gunnery)+200).

I'd be using the ability to help the other phase ships in my pack, mostly. I'd probably pop the ability right before the first hard engagement (once I've gotten the forces nearby and put down the eliminate order) so that the first ship out of phase doesn't take too much damage.

Its similar to when I fly an afflictor its way better for me to intelligently time the system to boost allied ships rather than just focus on myself - delaying my attack/phase/repeat cycle by a few seconds while I wait for allies to move in (as long as they are fast) is fine.
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TaLaR

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Re: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2024, 01:05:01 AM »

Is phase ship pack even a workable strategy? You take 20 DP for Harbinger + 2x10 DP for 2 Afflictors. If you go any higher, your phase ships become much slower. I suppose, AI Afflictors weren't going to bypass shields anyway, so losing some speed may not matter that much to them (still enough to stay safe)...
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Thaago

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Re: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2024, 01:27:03 AM »

Well I'm using a combo of pirate afflictors/shades in that save, though i'm not sure the pirate shade is worth the OP loss, but moreover I haven't found losing some of the phase bonus to be crippling in practice. I've gone down to about 70% before without really trying and the frigates were still dodging well in phase (and i had been using the pack from before I had the skill at all). Honestly I think even down at 50% the phase frigates would still be very speedy. They already have +45% speed base anyways, so going from 1.95 to 1.7 isn't so bad (assuming additive stacking, which maybe it is not).
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TaLaR

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Re: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2024, 02:28:10 AM »

I'm basing my decision to preserve phase speed bonus on personal Afflictor performance. Bypassing a fast omni-shield (like Medusa's, I think shield's base speed goes down somewhat with ship size going up. Or maybe it's just easier to bypass due to larger target area) without phase skill is very hard, much more reasonable with full phase speed effect. If I can barely do it without phase bonus, do I have any right to expect it of AI?... Then again, AI isn't even going to try.

If I remember right, phase speed bonus is actually multiplicative, but can't boot up the game right now to check.
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Megas

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Re: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2024, 05:17:54 AM »

There are two modes of using phase anchor : reducing cooldowns and venting soft flux.  Needlers, thumpers, and phase lances are flux efficient compared to their other alternatives, this wastes one of the most useful benefits of phase anchor : you can use the most flux costly weapons in the game and vent the soft flux in complete safety.  Stacking the most flux intensive weapons will always throw more hard flux at the target.  You only use other weapons if the flux gets too high for the vents and caps you want to put on the ship.

So needlers and lances are for bullying weaker ships.
For Ziggurat, at 75 DP and with unblockable EMP, weaker ships are all of them.

By venting, I guess you mean faster dissipation while phased.  Yes, that is nice and useful too.  Tachyon lance at 1.2 efficiency is not that efficient.  Lances and needlers will pile up flux, and while the ship is phased, hard flux builds up too.

Your voodoo word games are weak.  The problem with Quantum Disruptor isn't that it's hard to use, it's that the notion of a consequence-free action either wins the game or it does nothing at all.
Quantum Disruptor is hard to use because:
1) The range is too short if I use range boosters on typical assault weapons (with 600 base range).  If I take three medium weapons, boost their range with ITU, Gunnery Implants, and (in case of beams) Advanced Optics, the weapons outrange the system, and my Harbinger effectively has no system.  It gets frustrating with NPC-piloted ships because they try to maintain maximum weapon range, although it is frustrating for me too because I would want to maintain range as well.
2) Then, if I get close enough to use the system, I overload the target for how long? No more than a second?  The relatively precise timing required makes it hard to exploit the opening, like a fighting game move that requires a one or two frame window to input.
3) Finally, I need to wait a long time before the system recharges, unless I have Neural Link (but again, should not need the skill to help fix a broken system).  Systems Expertise alone does not help recharging fast enough (although it is nice when combined with Neural Link).  This may not be a problem if the overload duration was not so short.

You do not like the system, fine.  QD feels a bit unfair and in theme with high-tech phase ships being somewhat unfair.  I would like the system if it was not so frustrating or hard to use (for everyone).  And consequence-free is the point of most offensive and maybe some faster mobility systems.  Use (modern) ammo feeder/high energy focus/entropy amplifier to burst down an enemy fast or use teleportation or jets to escape or pounce on enemy.
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Brainwright

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Re: Change Harbinger's System to a Movement Disruption
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2024, 08:30:35 PM »

You do not like the system, fine.  QD feels a bit unfair and in theme with high-tech phase ships being somewhat unfair.  I would like the system if it was not so frustrating or hard to use (for everyone).  And consequence-free is the point of most offensive and maybe some faster mobility systems.  Use (modern) ammo feeder/high energy focus/entropy amplifier to burst down an enemy fast or use teleportation or jets to escape or pounce on enemy.

I said consequence-free damage.

The abilities aren't consequence-free, they define the ship and make them viable.  As everyone says, Doom is a mediocre if not terrible ship without mine strike.  The choice between burn drive and AAF is a matter of better offense versus punishing defense.

Phase Teleport was unfair enough to give us the current zero-flux boost rules.  QD was unfair enough that it was nerfed into uselessness, so it was obviously beyond "somewhat unfair."

You may feel justified in beating a dead horse, but it still looks ugly.
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