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[Phenir]

LAC, HAC have high recoil, and need some slots to pay off. Their DPS isn't high enough to compete against ultra shields of something like a Radiant. Though yeah, they are effective in that LAC has high efficiency and HAC has high value per OP, or something... And is good on hardpoint slots.

Recoil isn't an issue against shields.

TPC have 500 hit strength iirc, same as HIL and Plasma.

TPCs are energy damage and do 250 damage so they have 250 hit strength.

[Killer of Fate]

Recoil isn't an issue against shields.

Hmmmmm, yeah. Obviously true. I guess I didn't consider how large hitboxes of shields can be. Though I still feel like Mark IX and Autocannons are more designed to puncture midline or low tech shields. With Railgun, Heavy Autocannon and Needlers performing better at those more potent ones. Though with overwhelming amount of slots low tech ships can have, they might make use of those lesser tier weapons.

However, from what I see on the forums, Storm Needler seems to be dominating the role of an anti-shield weapon against Remnants. And for a good reason. Its burst, DPS and synergy with Expanded Magazines is insane.

I feel like we should nerf s-mods to counter-balance that a bit.
Eh, nvm... Who cares.

Maybe the solution would be to remove Storm Needler's flux efficiency???

[BigBrainEnergy]

However, from what I see on the forums, Storm Needler seems to be dominating the role of an anti-shield weapon against Remnants. And for a good reason. Its burst, DPS and synergy with Expanded Magazines is insane.

Maybe the solution would be to remove Storm Needler's flux efficiency???

It isn't. It's finally good now, but it's not dominating. Even in draba's fleet that uses a bunch of them, the sunders are there to provide the anti hull and armor damage the onslaughts sacrificed in order to run storm needlers. It's good synergy, but that doesn't qualify as "dominant."

[Killer of Fate]

oh, boo-hoo. Sunders finally got used in a late game fleet.

Let's lower their OP cost to 24 and make them flux efficiency 1. I'm tired of seeing Onslaughts neverendingly. This way, it'll become more of a Conquest weapon, because it's a ship that actually benefits from this kind of nonsense... I mean specialises in using high flux use weapons.

Plus it's high op cost prevents it from being used on stuff like Conquest, Manticore, etc. Ships that seemingly have some sort of a flux capacity. But lack OP. And it benefits stuff like Legion or Onslaught, which do not have flux stats, but have OP.

On second thought, 1 may be too harsh. Although super burst is something else than typical Needler shenanigans, which have an average burst that does not rely on ammunition, like an Ion Pulser would. Though Ion Pulser and Autopulse Laser are different in nature than the Storm Needler. Both being relatively inefficient due to their generalist nature. Resulting in them having an anti-shield role, not because they are good against it, but because they're bad against armour.

Storm Needler is bad against armour, but it is also amazingly good against shields compared to eg. Autopulse Laser's just good. It is probably also significantly more incompetent against even medium armour, whereas other whereas Ion Pulser and Autopulse are fair enough. Hmmmmmmmmmm... Its super high kinetic burst however functions differently to an energy weapon. The Ion Pulser's and Autopulse's weak general nature is partially amplified by the fact that they start running out of ammo??? Thus disallowing them to harm hull due to High Tech ship's limited slots.

A lot of factors to consider.

I think 1 with 24 op cost would be good enough, but I'm not the dev, so who cares.
Plus, testing required.

[Grievous69]

People use one thing a bit more than others > better nerf it fellas amirite.

I hate forced meta change balance patches.

Hell I've seen more Executors in player fleets than Onslaughts. Tired of seeing "nerf something that finally works" posts.

[Killer of Fate]

jesus christ, you truly have already seen everything.

Fine, don't nerf the Storm Needler, was just playing around with the concept.

[Grievous69]

My man still doesn't get the concept of discussion forums, this isn't your personal diary.

You write lengthy posts on every other topic here, make suggestions, demand nerfs, argument with other users. And then as soon as someone throws an argument back at you, you fall back to "ok sorry bro I was just giving an idea, whatever". That's extremely annoying and after a while people won't be responding to your remarks. There's a saying in my language about thinking it out first in your head, and then speaking, which really applies here.

This honestly has the vibe of prank videos where the annoying people just yell out "it's just a prank haha why you mad?". As that's some sort of ultimate defense against everything.

So unless you really really think something is broken strong or utterly weak, don't come writing a dozen posts where other people engage with you and then dismiss everything you previously said because you haven't thought it through.

[Killer of Fate]

no, this has the vibe of you getting angry over nothing. Literally said "whatever", cause it seems to get you super mad every single time a thing such as this is mentioned. And now you're getting mad at the fact that I'm not trying to make you mad. So, you declare war on the very concept of discourse.

Writing super lengthy posts, reading criticism, and "starting arguments with other users???". This is a forum. A literal place for public discussion. What the *** are people supposed to do here except writing lengthy posts and argue in a polite manner? Post memes? Give each other upvotes???

So unless you really really think something is broken strong or utterly weak, don't come writing a dozen posts where other people engage with you and then dismiss everything you previously said because you haven't thought it through.

So, literally say something when I believe it 100% and then if someone comes over to me and disagrees, then either ignore them or tell them they're wrong??? How is that better than proposing a theory and then approaching other people's ideas with open-mindedness and often agreeing with them? This is the literal antithesis of what a discussion should look like.

[Draba]

However, from what I see on the forums, Storm Needler seems to be dominating the role of an anti-shield weapon against Remnants. And for a good reason. Its burst, DPS and synergy with Expanded Magazines is insane.

I didn't notice that.
Keep in mind storm needler was considered bad in older versions. I liked it in Onslaught mid but was in the minority, and it was a tossup between needler and heph.
With Heph getting accuracy and minor efficiency buffs I wouldn't use storm needler without smags over it.

Builtin mag effect is certainly on the stronger side, but it has to be since the base is pretty bad.
Armored mounts is a decent comparison: gives durability and recoil reduction +unconditional peak and sustained DPS.
Mags do not increase peak DPS, and the sustained increase can be below what it says on the tin (if the weapon didn't fire long enough to empty the mags and could regen it does nothing).
Most mag weapons do get good mileage out of it ofc.

LAC, HAC have high recoil, and need some slots to pay off. Their DPS isn't high enough to compete against ultra shields of something like a Radiant. Though yeah, they are effective in that LAC has high efficiency and HAC has high value per OP, or something... And is good on hardpoint slots.

Mark IX and Arbalest are more anti-hull oriented, tbh... Okay, they are not anti-hull. But their shield DPS isn't that high, the potency of their design comes from adaptability and efficiency. Thus making them not ideal anti-shield weapons. But still pretty good weapons in the general game.

Don't think S/M kinetics being anything but great is a hill you want to die on
Storm needler was considered bad partially because literally any ballistic mount size has good alternatives to smack shields.
IMO play around a bit more with the various weapons and ships before calling for changes.

[Killer of Fate]

IMO play around a bit more with the various weapons and ships before calling for changes.

fair enough

[prav]

Onslaught has been overperforming since the last skill overhaul. This isn't some new thing.

e: I think I mixed up a couple of threads. Well, either way.