Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Megas]

While standard Afflictor had its DP cost raised from 8 to 10, the pirate version remained at 6.  This is too cheap compared to Shade-P, while both Shades remained at their values 8 (standard) and 6 (pirate).

Assuming unskilled, Afflictor-P is not far behind from a similarly out-of-the-box standard Afflictor as an AMB platform.  Standard Afflictor without help from skills and s-mods can only support three AMBs, while the pirate one can support two.  After that, standard has about 6 more OP than the pirate version, which is another 3 or 4 OP hullmod and the rest into vents (or caps if player has Flux Regulation).  Afflictor-P still has the same amp damage system and the same mobility to assassinate enemies.  The pirate one probably has a bit less capacity than standard, either from less than max caps or no Flux Coil Adjunct, but 6 DP is a great bargain for what it does compared to the 10 OP Afflictor.

That does not mean I always take Afflictor-P, but lately, I have taken one standard Afflictor and any backup Afflictors I bring are pirate versions because of the 6 DP cost that fit better within some DP pools.  (I have not taken all the skills to make Afflictor my primary ship, certainly not enough to support four AMBs, so it is not much better than a unskilled one.)

[Nettle]

Well, looking at the aforementioned Shade DP evaluation, shouldn't Afflictor P be 8?

[Megas]

Well, looking at the aforementioned Shade DP evaluation, shouldn't Afflictor P be 8?

I may not be opposed to 8, but 7 is less shocking of a change.  Two AMBs instead of three (and three hullmods instead of four) is only about two-thirds as good as normal, but Afflictor-P may still be better than Shade-P and probably Gremlin too.

[TaLaR]

Afflictor P is under-valued in DP, but so is base Afflictor and even arguably Shade (worse flux stats and useless system, but it's just as fast and can fit 3 AMB just fine). At least in terms of what they get done under player control.

Though for phase ships, DP isn't really about portion of total DP max(typically 240), but phase DP max, which is only 40. Any number that doesn't fit in nicely would be just wasteful. Like for example a 15DP Afflictor.

[Megas]

Afflictor P is under-valued in DP, but so is base Afflictor and even arguably Shade (worse flux stats and useless system, but it's just as fast and can fit 3 AMB just fine). At least in terms of what they get done under player control.

Standard Afflictor and Shade under NPC control can pull their weight in DP; just that player can do far more with AMB loadout, and Afflictor (with its system and more flux to work with) is better at AMB shenanigans than Shade is.  It is not too hard to build an unskilled phase frigate that the AI (not the player) can use to wreck SIM Hammerhead (as a peer opponent test).  EMP Emitter is decent for NPC Shade who is hardwired to assassinate its target while trying to dodge fighters, missiles, and the like, and it can kind of do Omen's job.  If I bring a phase frigate specifically for NPC use, it will not get a full-blown AMB loadout we would use because it may be sub-optimal given its behavior.  Sometimes, I bring NPC Afflictor primarily for Entropy Amplifier to hex enemies, and I do not want Afflictor running around trying to AMB stuff at close range (though it tries to do it anyway sometimes even with a loadout like needlers and swarmers), but instead amp enemies for my heavier ships to wreck it.

As for DP pools, the one I am most concerned about is Neural Link with its 50 DP pool.  Occasionally, battle map size has been a factor when I had a few phase ships in a mostly conventional fleet, and I could deploy a 6 or 8 DP phase ship, but not 10 DP.

[Thaago]

When I run a big wolfpack phase contingent, I find the shade's system useful to mix in to the afflictors. Omens are a possibility, but shades offer a different set of capabilities that I find useful. In particular when I give the phase pack an eliminate order they can all travel at extreme speed through enemy contested areas, so the shades give better emp arc support for that group. I usually go 2 pirate afflictors 1 shade in a kill group, because after a certain point more entropy amplifiers is less valuable than the emp turning off weapons/engines.

As to the OP... yeah they should be 7. I weep.

Afflictor P is under-valued in DP, but so is base Afflictor and even arguably Shade (worse flux stats and useless system, but it's just as fast and can fit 3 AMB just fine). At least in terms of what they get done under player control.

Though for phase ships, DP isn't really about portion of total DP max(typically 240), but phase DP max, which is only 40. Any number that doesn't fit in nicely would be just wasteful. Like for example a 15DP Afflictor.

I think balancing the DPs for mostly AI control is fine tbh. I wish the Aurora were similar.

In terms of the phase skill, going modestly over isn't a big deal, especially for frigates, so if this change makes a group go from 40 to say... 45, it would be a small nerf.

[Dadada]

+1, I agree with the thread title
E: Alternative approach but I suggest just buffing, I mean upping the DP: Nerf the P variant more (less dissipation or Flux pool or better: less OP)

[prav]

(less dissipation or Flux pool or better: less OP)

Hit it where it hurts: less PPT.

[Dadada]

ouch

[Megas]

Afflictor already has low PPT without bonuses from skills (that time shift burns up faster), and Delicate Machinery makes CR decay very fast.  No need to overnerf it like Hyperion.

[Dadada]

I see no reason why the 6DP Afflictor P shouldn't have a 120s PPT instead of 180... And I love the ship so it would hurt (based prav), but it's probably easier to just bump up the DP.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Afflictor-P being 8 dp would work for me. It's similar to the normal shade in effectiveness because the shade's arc emitter really does not synergize with phase mechanics at all.

[Dadada]

Well, the Shade phases through the enemy, EMPs the engines 'till they are toast or even outright kills the enemy ship with the EMP lightning strikes... Now add the armament on top. RIP

[Zsar]

Please keep in mind that some combination of these and Shade (P)s should ideally accumulate to exactly 40 DP both with and without Support Doctrine. This is the only constellation with which Phase Coil Tuning is really sensible - all more expensive phase ships very much invite to ditch this (already questionably impactful) skill for another.

(But yes, I think the Afflictor (P) is indeed a bit cheap: It has enough OP for its slots and it can kill pretty much any NPC frigate easily and quickly with e.g. 2x Light Needler, 1x Antimatter Blaster, even without any capacitors or vents at all, so Hardened Subsystems always also fits in comfortably. The Shade (P) in comparison can't really do better than 2x Railgun, 1x Antimatter Blaster and even that is rather stretching it. On phase ships, of course, only burst damage matters, so what is usually a sensible sidegrade turns into a real downgrade for those.)