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[nathan67003]

With the recent addition of key items/features, which require stable locations to use, it's no longer possible to have a system with all stable location structures (sensors, nav, hypercom, [REDACTED], [REDACTED]) at once.

My suggestion consists of allowing random generation to rarely create systems with more than three stable locations. For instance, systems with 4 locations would be a single digit percentage (in other words, <10%, likely far less) and systems with 5 locations would be so rare as to have one or two per sector at most, possibly none (albeit plz no, at least one T_T).

[Bungee_man]

I like the extra complexity. In prior builds, there was one 'perfect' system configuration that did everything and was pretty common (habitable, farming, mining, LI, commerce; barren, mining, refining, fuel production, commerce; Gas giant, mining, HI, commerce, military base), and then one second-tier build that was a little below that (no gas giant, drop the least profitable industry and put heavy industry on one of your planets).

Now, there are tradeoffs. Multiple ways to build a habitable world. Multiple ways to use stable locations. 

[Phenir]

Or just live without nav and sensors in a system you spend <1% of your time in.

[nathan67003]

I like the extra complexity. In prior builds, there was one 'perfect' system configuration that did everything and was pretty common (habitable, farming, mining, LI, commerce; barren, mining, refining, fuel production, commerce; Gas giant, mining, HI, commerce, military base)

Never seen that system exist in my life. Besides, my first colony is always the lowest hazard world in the sector. There's no such thing as a "perfect" system, not even remotely; the need for more stable locations with the recent updates makes any given system even worse now, no matter what.

Or just live without nav and sensors in a system you spend <1% of your time in.

Spoken like someone who's never had to have Command HQs on every planet in a system for your fleets to fend off expeditions by themselves XD

[Zsar]

Truth be told, for the three older installations, I do not see at all, why they should be in a stable location in the first place.
Sure, finding a Domain era vintage one sounds most likely in one of these spots, but for our makeshift replacements, why not put them into any solar orbit that will be good for "only" decades - we have colonies with Spaceports in the system, maintaining the things every odd decade or so is surely the better alternative to not having them!?

(Always sad when Science Fiction cannot do, what we can do on Earth today and were able to do for over three quarts of a century.)

[Megas]

With the recent addition of key items/features, which require stable locations to use, it's no longer possible to have a system with all stable location structures (sensors, nav, hypercom, [REDACTED], [REDACTED]) at once.

My suggestion consists of allowing random generation to rarely create systems with more than three stable locations. For instance, systems with 4 locations would be a single digit percentage (in other words, <10%, likely far less) and systems with 5 locations would be so rare as to have one or two per sector at most, possibly none (albeit plz no, at least one T_T).

I guess it is no wonder why Alex reduced the cost from 5 SP to 2 SP to create another stable location.

Maybe raise the max locations an alpha core can make per system from two to three.

Comm relay is non-negotiable.  It is needed for stability and news on bounties.

Sensor relays are important for filling out the nearby slipstream map, and Reverse Polarity has made streams a lot more useful.

Nav relay is nice, but most expendable (at least with a burn 20 fleet).

In my current game, I cannot use the wormholes in my main system because I have two Domain relays (Comms and Sensors), and I do not want to break them.  So far, with only two neighboring systems, their relays are taken by sensors for the slipstream map.  I probably need to use an alpha core and spend story points to add an extra location if I want to place a wormhole in one of the neighbors.

[nathan67003]

Truth be told, for the three older installations, I do not see at all, why they should be in a stable location in the first place.
Sure, finding a Domain era vintage one sounds most likely in one of these spots, but for our makeshift replacements, why not put them into any solar orbit that will be good for "only" decades - we have colonies with Spaceports in the system, maintaining the things every odd decade or so is surely the better alternative to not having them!?

Probably something related to FTL comms/hyperspace, since all three make use of hyperspace to some extent (sensors and nav relay real-time data, for instance).

[Zsar]

It's hard to explain away. E.g. we need not spend fuel to remain in hyperspace without moving (yet we start to drift when we run out - inconsistency!). So they could be placed in hyperspace and communicate with a dumb repeater in one single Stable Location.

... If it is hard work to come up with a sensible-sounding explanation for a game mechanic, maybe changing the mechanic would be easier. (It has not - for this mechanic - happened yet, but this is especially true when the alternative would be adding more nonsensical mechanics on top of it, e.g. to "balance". Always sad when a design goes that way. Has to become quite psychedelic to not feel childish.)

[Phenir]

Or just live without nav and sensors in a system you spend <1% of your time in.

Spoken like someone who's never had to have Command HQs on every planet in a system for your fleets to fend off expeditions by themselves XD

If you are building your system to fend off expeditions by themselves then that just backs up my claim you don't need those two infrastructures when you clearly aren't spending time in the system to defend them. I don't see how needing HQs on all your planets makes sensor array or nav buoy mandatory anyway.

Sensor relays are important for filling out the nearby slipstream map, and Reverse Polarity has made streams a lot more useful.

Luckily slipstreams typically go in a mostly straight line or slightly curved line so spotting any part of it is essentially the same as spotting the entire thing. You can also just put multiple sensor arrays in a single neighboring system to get the max range, unless you have some weird 1 system constellation.

[nathan67003]

It's hard to explain away. E.g. we need not spend fuel to remain in hyperspace without moving (yet we start to drift when we run out - inconsistency!).

Imo, this is either a necessary inconsistency for the game to be fun or it's because the drive field is no longer working, which exposes you to ambient gravity (this would also explain why you don't experience much in the way of gravity when navigating in realspace unless stopped).

So they could be placed in hyperspace and communicate with a dumb repeater in one single Stable Location.

Ah, but we do have those! Warning beacons. However, as warning beacons show, those can't be used to send data in-system (you don't get the beacon info if you wormhole in, for instance).

If you are building your system to fend off expeditions by themselves then that just backs up my claim you don't need those two infrastructures when you clearly aren't spending time in the system to defend them. I don't see how needing HQs on all your planets makes sensor array or nav buoy mandatory anyway.

It simply helps; sensors allow pickets moving around to detect nuisances from farther away and nav allows for larger fleets with capitals to intercept earlier, possibly keeping them occupied while you're bum-rushing to defend from the other side of the sector.

[Megas]

Luckily slipstreams typically go in a mostly straight line or slightly curved line so spotting any part of it is essentially the same as spotting the entire thing. You can also just put multiple sensor arrays in a single neighboring system to get the max range, unless you have some weird 1 system constellation.

The map is handy for seeing "any part of it" if they are not the screen.  Harder to plan on riding or avoiding them in advance if they cannot be seen until they are nearly on top of your fleet on the screen.

Does not need to be one system constellation to have limited stable points.  In my current game, one of my systems is in a three system constellation, and all of them have no more than two points (one of them only has one until I spend 2 SP to create another).  One of the systems is colonized, and a second one may be soon, so that is two taken for comms, another for a wormhole, so I will have three left for sensors after I spend 2 SP for the third, and some of those sensors will be stolen when a pirate base spawns in the uninhabited system periodically.

[Megas]

I knew wormholes required stable locations but was surprised that deploying a gate required one too.  There goes my plan to put both a gate and a wormhole in the secondary home system (which does not have a gate unlike my primary home system) with only two stable points, one of them taken by the obligatory comm relay.  Now if only alpha core could make up to three locations instead of two.

Why both gate and wormhole in both system?  So I can travel freely from home #1 to home #2, but gates are handy when I go to the nearest home from some other gate not in the other home.

EDIT:  Turned out my second system had three stable points after all, so I can replace the sensor and nav relays with a gate and a wormhole to link my two colony systems.  Wormhole for travel between my two colony systems, and gate to travel to other systems.

[Megas]

You can also just put multiple sensor arrays in a single neighboring system to get the max range, unless you have some weird 1 system constellation.

I just tried this and it does not work.  The three sensors need to be in separate systems.  I had Domain relay in one system and two makeshift relays in another, but only got +3 (+2 from Domain, +1 from two makeshifts in one system).  I had to put the third sensor relay in another system to get the +4 from three relays.

The tooltip does not mention that the multiple sensor relays need to be in separate systems, one per system.

[Baqar79]

There is a bug (.97RC8) where creating a wormhole at a stable point meant that point didn't count for the system maximum of 2 for me, so I was able to generate a third one as a result, though that is likely to be fixed in the next version.

Also this sounds like there is a way to stack sensors?  I always thought they only counted for the system that they were in?

[Wyvern]

Also this sounds like there is a way to stack sensors?  I always thought they only counted for the system that they were in?

Stacking sensors is for the slipstream detection thing, not for in-system sensor range.


Also, given that the gate hauler needs a stable point, and there exist systems with three stable points and a gate, I would be all for allowing at least some four-stable-point systems to exist, and for the player to be able to add stable points up to a max of three.