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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Anubis-class Cruiser (12/20/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha  (Read 41863 times)

EnigmaniteZ

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #90 on: November 04, 2024, 10:20:10 AM »

BGECarapace.kt function advanceInCombat contains:
ship.captain?.setPersonality("reckless")
permanently changes officers assigned to the ship.

example fix:

Quote
    override fun advanceInCombat(ship: ShipAPI, amount: Float) {
        modifyPowerLevel(ship)
        hideControlCollarIfNotPlayer(ship)
        val cap=ship.captain
        if (cap != null) {
            val isDef=cap.isDefault
            if (isDef) {
                ship.captain?.setPersonality("reckless")
            }
        }
        erraticPropulsion.advanceInCombat(ship, amount)
    }
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Reshy

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2024, 10:06:03 PM »

The Toxocyst ship seems to play with an AI in a weird way, ships don't maintain proper distance or will refuse to disengage when damaged.  Additionally it's weapon seems to bypass shields, which the AI is also kinda not sure how to deal with.  As the AI is coded it'll remain in the fight so long as it's shield isn't pressured even if it's armor is completely stripped.  Might be worth looking at bug fixing those issues.
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EnigmaniteZ

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2024, 01:08:55 AM »

SVC have reckless AI. (and this gets applied to any human officers that pilot them permanently). the weapons are basically designed to get around shields, too, and i'm pretty certain that's intentional at this point. but as for bug fixing...well, I doubt that'll happen. heh.
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Also known as: Khe, Kherae. Pros: tend to be an optimizer and a fixer. Cons: ADD (Is that a squirrel over there?) and severe memory issues (as in: I'm the last 10+ years)

Dear fellow coders: please use more null checks...

Reshy

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2024, 04:58:43 AM »

SVC have reckless AI. (and this gets applied to any human officers that pilot them permanently). the weapons are basically designed to get around shields, too, and i'm pretty certain that's intentional at this point. but as for bug fixing...well, I doubt that'll happen. heh.

Usually a mark of poor design when it confuses the singleplayer AI, considering that's a major part of the campaign.


Will mention it does sorta feel like the creatures are designed assuming you're full boating exclusively HE weaponry, it could probably be worth tuning it down so they're not so much of an active drain on resources even when you overpower them.  Them getting around shields just makes them... for lack of better words, unfun, since they're ignoring a crucial part of the gameplay and the player can't be expected to pilot their entire fleet simultaneously.
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EnigmaniteZ

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2024, 05:49:57 PM »

well, if you open up tips.json in the mod's data/strings folder it kinda tells you what's expected;
Voidlings are melee and heavily armored, you're either very mobile or have superior firepower.
Plus, you can choose most of the time whether to engage them.
As for the AI and shields... that teleporting minelayer system comes to mind.
But also, there is this system for measuring the threat level of ships in the game, and maybe that ship doesn't have those values set properly. I haven't gone so far as to look at that.
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Also known as: Khe, Kherae. Pros: tend to be an optimizer and a fixer. Cons: ADD (Is that a squirrel over there?) and severe memory issues (as in: I'm the last 10+ years)

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Reshy

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2024, 08:16:04 PM »

well, if you open up tips.json in the mod's data/strings folder it kinda tells you what's expected;
Voidlings are melee and heavily armored, you're either very mobile or have superior firepower.
Plus, you can choose most of the time whether to engage them.
As for the AI and shields... that teleporting minelayer system comes to mind.
But also, there is this system for measuring the threat level of ships in the game, and maybe that ship doesn't have those values set properly. I haven't gone so far as to look at that.

I've been using fairly agile ships but I've noticed that even with that they seem to not properly disengage from the void creatures when able to.  For example a Medusa won't phase shift away from a shield-piercing attack because it's shields are still up even if it's hull and armor is critical. 
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EnigmaniteZ

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2024, 10:06:03 PM »

just checked fleet points and those seem set properly.
as for the movement...I guess it depends on which enemy. problem with medusa not phase shifting is it's a "in the direction it is traveling" ability...if it even uses it, would it even go anywhere? the void creatures have grapplers which pull ships to them, which could be interfering
other than that, idk? I know vanilla AI is...prohibitively stupid sometimes...
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Also known as: Khe, Kherae. Pros: tend to be an optimizer and a fixer. Cons: ADD (Is that a squirrel over there?) and severe memory issues (as in: I'm the last 10+ years)

Dear fellow coders: please use more null checks...

mllhild

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Re: [0.97a] Symbiotic Void Creatures 0.5.0-alpha
« Reply #97 on: December 10, 2024, 03:08:42 AM »

I tried to do a themed run as Monster Hunter. (Modlists: Nex, SiC, QoL)
It failed terribly due to economics. So from that POV I will list the Problems I had and the suggestions.

Problem: It can be really hard to find the Void creatures reliably, compared to Probes.
Suggestion: Visits to Bars giving info on in which systems they have been seen.

Problem: They feel rare, not like spreading pests as described in the bounty.
Suggestion 1: Add "Initial Count of Infested Systems" "Infestation Degree" option via LunaLib, so that the amount of their presence can be set.
Suggestion 2: Add "Reproduction Rate" option, so that if you dont kill all of them in a system, they start multiplying until a limit is reached.
Suggestion 3: Add "Infestation Spread Speed" option, so that they can spread to neighboring star systems.

Problem: Not easy to distinguish types.
Suggestion: The Phase capable ones get some distinct purple glowing organs. The EMP ones get a blue glowing organ.

Problem: Ship AI seems to fail hard on the Phase type since its skill appears to be instant after dephasing.
Suggestion: Add a bit of fire delay to their ranged weapons and skills.

Problem: Ship AI does not seem to disengage properly.
Suggestion: No idea. I dont get why my ships just suicide when fighting.

Problem: Too much all around armor on the small ones. (A 14 FP Swarmhost has more armor than an Onslaught, even the smallest one has armor of cruiser, that is without considering the evolutions that push it into capital level armor)
Suggestion: Instead of normal armor stats, use directional ablative armor plates. (ex: UAF) That way flanking them actually means something and Kinetics dont just tickle them.

Problem: Too high maneuverability. (You capital class has turnrates higher than some frigates) (They have turn rates that keep up with safety override frigates with maneuvering trousters.)
Suggestion: Decrease their turn rates a bit (-20%/-25%/-30%/-35%). That way flanking them becomes possible with fast ships.

Problem: Too steep of a combat curve. Their fleet spawns go from single frigate to two frigates and a cruiser.
Suggestion: Upgrade the current frigates a bit in size(but not stats) and set them to destroyer class. Introduce a few youngling types that each have a degraded version of the adults ability and stats as frigates. That way the player can get used to them and you can increase the number of enemies, so they feel more like pests that grow into nightmares. (tldr: danger in number, but individually weak.)


In total they have potential, but their overreliance on high tech ship systems(phase, emp, entropy) doesnt quite fit the theme of void monsters that are trying to eat you. (Dashes and slowing projectiles would fit a bit better)
Also Hull tanks would fit living creatures better than being Armor tanks.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 03:19:48 AM by mllhild »
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