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Author Topic: Making Hostile Activity more intuitive  (Read 732 times)

mllhild

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Making Hostile Activity more intuitive
« on: September 07, 2023, 05:38:42 AM »

Current state:
- system with 10 patrols station has the same bonus as a system with 1 patrol station
- pirate fleets that raid the system seem to scale of the players fleet and not the hostile activity meter -> makes patrol fleets kinda useless
- Pirates and Ludic path increase the same meter -> using tech becomes a disadvantage -> reduces the benefit of engaging in exploration
- relations with the luddic church seem to have no influence
- amount of pirate worlds have no influence
- position of ludic path and pirate bases have no weight on their influence
- pirate influence (10 + size - stability + pirate base in range) ranges from 3+c to 16+c, defense from 5 to 18, ludd from 0 to 25?, yet the hostile activity meter stack on that due to its negative stability modifier. Hence what happens is that if the luddic path gets triggered because you went over 7 point you immediatly are in a 11+c to 24+c situation at best and usually closer to 15+c to 28+c. Meaning that no matter how much defense you build, hostile activity will just go up and up.
- getting rid of all pirate planets does nothing for the sector
- Luddic faith is totally unaffected even if they lose all their worlds

Suggestions:
- separate pirates and ludds into separate meters (they are lore wise separate)
- make things stack so that the player has agency:

Defense Rating:
patrol stations +(insystem), military bases ++(5ly), command post +++(10ly),  sensor relays +, stable worlds+(insystem)

Pirate Activity:
empty worlds(insystem), unstable worlds (insystem), pirate bases+(10ly), pirate worlds++(15ly), enemy faction worlds+(15ly)
base value added would be trade volume of all planets in system added up and devided by a factor. That way it scales with size and type of colony.

Ludic Activity:
empty worlds(insystem), unstable worlds (insystem),luddic path worlds++(20ly), luddic path bases+(10ly), ludic church worlds+(20ly)
still triggers at the same techpoints level, but instead of adding the tech score flat, add just the part over 7 permitted base points

- normal enemy spawn fleets in your system should depend on the meters and trade amount, not your fleet size
- event fleet size can depend on player fleet size


Effects:
- it now follows the simple logic of destroy enemy origins so that enemies stop coming
- player now has a reason to occupy more than just the best worlds in a system
- paying for defence becomes viable, hence you can make a fortress system if you want it to be defensible
- patrol fleets can actually deal with pirate fleets in your system
- finding Domain tech in exploration is again rewarding since you can use it without being forever stuck defeating pirate fleets
- makes the sector react to the player action in a way the player can feel (destruction of the luddic and pirate worlds)
- being at war with a faction has an actual downside now and isnt just a free capital ship delivery
- colonizing multiple close systems becomes more advantageous than far spread out colonies
- incentivises colonizing further out from the core to reduce the number of enemy worlds affecting the meter

Notes:
- unless I read the wiki I never knew you could pay off the pirates or the ludds, so that should be mentioned/suggested somewhere on the screen of the hostile activity meters
- Kanta really doesnt feel like anyone important in the game, so his ability to give a protection really is kinda strange. His base is just far too crappy and has no big fleets to indicate status. (The main quest has the flaw of saying that he is influencial, but not SHOWING it. Hence he feels like just another henchmen. ...oh right he was supposed to be a women, but since he doenst look or behave like one I always forget about that)
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to be done some day... XD

Nettle

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Re: Making Hostile Activity more intuitive
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2023, 07:10:32 AM »

- pirate fleets that raid the system seem to scale of the players fleet and not the hostile activity meter -> makes patrol fleets kinda useless
- normal enemy spawn fleets in your system should depend on the meters and trade amount, not your fleet size
- event fleet size can depend on player fleet size

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I think Alex mentioned that there is no system in place that would scale things to your fleet size, be it colony threats or anything else.

- Pirates and Ludic path increase the same meter -> using tech becomes a disadvantage -> reduces the benefit of engaging in exploration

Even at its worse, hostile activity shouldn't ruin your tech-heavy colony, the benefits will usually outweigh drawbacks.

...Hence what happens is that if the luddic path gets triggered because you went over 7 point you immediatly are in a 11+c to 24+c situation at best and usually closer to 15+c to 28+c. Meaning that no matter how much defense you build, hostile activity will just go up and up.

To paraphrase Alex, you are not intended to passively solve colony threats. No colony threats is not the baseline here. Its specifically made that way to breed progressively more conflict and action.

- relations with the luddic church seem to have no influence
- Luddic faith is totally unaffected even if they lose all their worlds

Church of Galactic Redemption is a structured theocratic government, Luddic Path is a number of loosely associated radical sects, terrorists if you will, they interpret Ludd's Message dramatically different and don't require centralized structure to operate.

- amount of pirate worlds have no influence
- getting rid of all pirate planets does nothing for the sector

Pirates are even less associated than Luddic Path, its just an umbrella term for recognized criminals in Starsector. You can't kill piracy, it's an idea.

- Kanta really doesnt feel like anyone important in the game, so his ability to give a protection really is kinda strange. His base is just far too crappy and has no big fleets to indicate status.

Jorien has a really extensive family, think of it like Italian Space Mafia, I can't tell for certain whether they are actually biologically related, but being described as "dynasty" seem to imply that they are. The point is, she controls an organized crime group, which will naturally project more influence than sole operators.


Other than this, I agree that Colony Threats could use some refining (apparently we will get them in next patches), even if not necessarily in a way you suggest it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 10:05:42 AM by Nettle »
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Alex

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Re: Making Hostile Activity more intuitive
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2023, 09:45:54 AM »

I'll just say that the system is being reworked and expanded quite heavily (as we speak), and most of this is no longer relevant.

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I think Alex mentioned that there is no system in place that would scale things to your fleet size, be it colony threats or anything else.

Correct!
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Selfcontrol

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Re: Making Hostile Activity more intuitive
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2023, 01:49:16 PM »

I'll just say that the system is being reworked and expanded quite heavily (as we speak), and most of this is no longer relevant.

I'm not 100% certain on this, but I think Alex mentioned that there is no system in place that would scale things to your fleet size, be it colony threats or anything else.

Correct!

Damn. I really can't wait to see what its gonna become. I love the idea of the Hostile Activity system, but not the current execution (it's "fine", but bland) and I'm super excited to see what's being cooked up.
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