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[BaBosa]

Given that Alex mentioned that systems push away deep hyperspace which look thicker and slow down ships and that the abyssal zone has less stars than normal. It makes sense that the abyssal hyperspace is even thicker than deep hyperspace hence the greater slowdown and it’s kinda like fog where a light amount doesn’t really reduce your vision but thick fog does.

[Megas]

I tend to agree with Grievous, that skill was not on my list of must takes, or even particularly strong.

Its a tier 3 (requires 2 pre-requisites) that provides a max of 25 fuel reduction.  I tend to think of that in terms of 2.5 Ox fuel costs to be honest, since a competing campaign layer skill is Navigation, which is only a level 1 skill that can provide +2 sustained burn (to get to that max of 20) for no fuel cost as well.  2.5 Ox is worth +2.5 burn.  Late game, I'd argue Containment Procedures is either on target or weak for a tier 3 that requires the same number of prerequisites as Flux Regulation or Phase Coil Tuning.  It kind of is at the same level of commitment to the industry tree as an Officer Management/Training is to leadership.

And those high tier Tech and Leadership skills boost combat power while Containment Procedures... do not.  Lame for a tier 3 skill.  Containment Procedures can eliminate all fuel use, and I probably still would not take it unless I need a prereq for Hull Restoration (and ignore Industrial Planning along the way.)

[Amoebka]

After just having finished an industry-themed playthough, I don't agree containment procedures is useless, although it definitely doesn't need a nerf. Being able to bring tons more ships and win battles by throwing more meat into the grinder feels quite good. Especially since both tier 5s remove the penalty for losing ships, as long as you win the battle.

[Worldtraveller]

  the game has been moving away from incentivizing colonizing just one system, so you might consider this one small step in that direction, too.

Just catching up with this thread.

On the comment above, I would like if either we could hire more administrators, or, one administrator could govern all colonies in a system (even if that skill is reduced for other colonies that they are not directly stationed at). For example, the colony where they are 'installed' gets the full production bonus, but other colonies in the system only get 30% of the effective bonus.

Just an idea.

I am also opposed to nerfing containment procedures for the reasons mentioned (and better elucidated) by others.

Really enjoying the game. I feel like I've run into a dead end in the story aspect of it, but maybe I just need to take my big ships out and start hunting [Redacted] fleets?

[Alex]

A few assorted responses! Apologies if I miss or don't respond to your specific comment, I did catch up and read everything, though

Was there even a single person on this forum that said "Containment Procedures is a busted skill"?

I don't think that's a requirement; something doesn't need to be "busted" or even imbalanced or w/e to warrant a change! In this particular case, I think feel-wise, its bonus is too much in the early game, doubling the range of even medium-sized fleets, and feels alright later on (which is mostly what the fuel bonus is intended for, to support larger Derelict Ops type fleets). So what I have in mind is lowering the percentage.

(this looks like going from Morrowind fasttravel to Skyrim fasttravel)

Eh, I don't think so, it feels more Morrowind to me.

Limiting it to Black holes and neutron stars seems more reasonable

... but that's a possibility, yeah! I'll keep an eye on it.

As for wormhole and making a gate, it will certainly reduce the mystery of the Domain tech when you are suddently able to make one.

Some assumptions here

I love when games put things outside of the map. I remember an old game, Shellcore Command, that had that as a plot point - go out of bounds, and the things outside of normal space will come after you. I'll admit that when I first played the game, going out into the void to see if there was something there was one of my main objectives. Because I had no idea how fuel mechanics worked, it was a fairly late-game thing.

Ahh, same! Haven't played that game, but it's really cool stuff. Solar Winds had something that felt a lot like that to me, though I don't remember if it actually strictly speaking *was* out of bounds, or not.

Abyssal hyperspace being a very dense syrup doesn't match well with its visuals - which is just an empty black void.

Right now we go from empty foreground with light background ("shallow" hyperspace), to heavy clouds in the foreground (deep hyperspace), to complete emptyness in both fore- and background (abyssal hyperspace). The visual "density" doesn't scale with "depth". It goes from somewhat clear, to super visually busy, to perfectly clear.

I see what you're saying, but it doesn't feel like that to me in-game, at all. As you enter deeper abyssal hyperspace, you see the other stuff - and the backround - fade out, so it doesn't feel like something becoming clear, it feels like you're going someplace dark. And that feeing is reinforced by audio/music changes etc. On a screenshot, of course, all of that gets lost.

(Regardless, it's definitely not a visual progression from clear to clouds to black; the black feels qualitatively different.)

On the comment above, I would like if either we could hire more administrators, or, one administrator could govern all colonies in a system (even if that skill is reduced for other colonies that they are not directly stationed at). For example, the colony where they are 'installed' gets the full production bonus, but other colonies in the system only get 30% of the effective bonus.

Just an idea.

I get where you're coming form, yeah. Not necessarily a bad idea, but just fundamentally, I don't see this game as being about having that many colonies. I realize that's how it can play *now*, what with the lack of an endgame, and with building up more colonies being one of the things to do after the game is "over". But that's not at all how I'm seeing it ultimately go.

Really enjoying the game. I feel like I've run into a dead end in the story aspect of it, but maybe I just need to take my big ships out and start hunting [Redacted] fleets?

I guess that depends on whether you finished the story! There's... a fair bit of it, both the main story, the Diktat, the new Luddic Church stuff. And of course the [SUPER REDACTED], which if you haven't encountered them yet, I don't want to spoil.

[Amoebka]

Guess it's not very smart of me to argue about things I haven't actually seen yet, but I'll do it anyway. 

I'm sure the transition between normal hyperspace and the abyss looks awesome. However, after you've been in the abyss for a while, you might "forget" about it, and just see black all around you. Black = "nothing", that's what brains tend to assume.

Are there really no animations there at all? I feel like some pitch black clouds of fog flying over your fleet every once in a while would go a long way to sell the idea that the blackness around you is very dark clouds, instead of "nothing".

[Doctorhealsgood]

I mean the abyssal depths on earth are also very very dark but if you try to just go there you will get crushed by monumental pressure. So personally i don't think that dark means ''nothing''

[Alex]

Guess it's not very smart of me to argue about things I haven't actually seen yet, but I'll do it anyway. 

Haha, fair

I'm sure the transition between normal hyperspace and the abyss looks awesome. However, after you've been in the abyss for a while, you might "forget" about it, and just see black all around you. Black = "nothing", that's what brains tend to assume.

Are there really no animations there at all? I feel like some pitch black clouds of fog flying over your fleet every once in a while would go a long way to sell the idea that the blackness around you is very dark clouds, instead of "nothing".

Hmm. I'd need to spend more time with it, but I feel like that doesn't really hold up. Black is associated with darkness, right? Not "nothing". I'm not sure in what context black would be "nothing"; "nothing" just looks like the something that's behind it. Pure black is a bit claustrophobic because it signals that your vision is being limited.

No, there's no animation. It's something we've talked about, but ultimately I think that might take away from the feel rather than enhance it (i.e. it might make it feel less dense, perhaps), so given that what's there works (and works well, imo), I'm not keen on spending a couple of weeks experimenting with alternate visuals. Exploratory work on visuals can take forever.

FWIW, your fleet does get a little darker and the engines less prominent, as a subtle visual reminder. And as mentioned, there are audio changes, too.

[intrinsic_parity]

One idea is to have the darkness 'encroach' on the edges of your fleet. Like little swirls or tendrils of darkness going over the edges of the fleet bubble. Or you could have a little region around your fleet be 'illuminated' slightly. Basically something to make it feel like you are 'inside' the darkness, rather than floating on top of a black screen, because that's the impression I get from the screenshot in the blog post.

[Alex]

Tried these kinds of ideas! Not saying they couldn't work - they probably could - but didn't get anywhere good with 'em.

[Amoebka]

Basically something to make it feel like you are 'inside' the darkness, rather than floating on top of a black screen, because that's the impression I get from the screenshot in the blog post.

Yeah, concerned about it as well. It looks very flat. Starsector is obviously a 2D game, but everywhere else has several layers with parallax scrolling to liven it up.

Exploratory work on visuals can take forever.

Fair enough, probably not worth your time compared to other things.

[smithney]

The latest hyperspace travel improvements were an unexpected highlight for me, so I expect these additions to round it off to the ideal. Custom wormhole will definitely be welcome, I can see gateless systems get back on par with "gateful" ones again. As the outer sector becomes more navigable, I hope to see more threats and attractions in it as well. The slipstream stalkers are a great example.

Speaking of the unspeakable, it's easy to have high expectations of, but I don't get the vibe that the abysses will necessarily be a major content hub. Rather a neat and spooky borderline that we might be dared to peek into during a storyline. A large liminal empty space with x1/4 movement limit sounds water-level magnitudes of mundane. So I hope that when we're sent into the damn darkness, it's going to be memorable.

All in all, seeing the gameplay polish being applied makes me wonder if we're heading into the last half-patch before the release with this one.

[JohndeFontaine]

One way to enhance the ambience generated by the abyss might be, in my opinion, to get the UI to get affected by it.

Having it get semi_transparent, darkened or else might help the issue raised by other people regarding the black background.

It might look dull but having a fully black background can get a vibe that fits well the settings. However, the UI, with its bright colors, "ruins" the weight that the blackness tries to create, in my opinion.

An extreme suggestion of mine would be to have the UI completely fade as you burn deeper into the darkness, and eventually being completely invisible. Not a practical solution due to gameplay reasons, but a really cool concept that would truly outstand the abyss from the rest of the gameplay, as it would demonstrate that something is different about it from the rest of the sector.

[Alex]

Tried this - partially fading the UI - too, actually! Didn't really click, unfortunately.

[Megas]

If abyss has empty background map, would it have empty background for combat?  Would be kind of like playing a retro '80s space game like Asteroids, except objects would not be vector outlines and wedges.  Would be kind of funny if ships were drawn as their collision outlines in empty black space so that they do resemble the classic wedge ships from Asteroids instead of their usual selves.