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[SafariJohn]

Cool stuff.

Would be nice if the fleet movement AI supported traversing at least in-system wormholes - it's just a hyperspace JP with 0 distance to the next system, after all.

Abyssal space is really cool. [ALABASTER] and/or regular [REDACTED] should lurk at the edges of the OP Abyss, using the reduced detection ranges to sneak materiel around the Sector.


Also, ability spam is coming true:

The four in the blog post look good, but I echo Mendonca's caution about "gilding the lily". My gut feeling is that it would be very easy to overdo it.

[Mordodrukow]

I have a question. You see, we can, for example, choose specific planets to colonise, set arrays in systems to increase stream detection range etc... Everything to improve our QoL. But...

Why do that if the game ends already, when we have enough resources to do all this stuff? So, my question is: do you plan to introduce some end-game activity (hopefully: something bigger than randomly generated REDACTED raids)?

[SpaceDrake]

Oh look. A star. Alone. In the pitch black abyss.

...

I'm sure it's fine.

A single beacon in space - all alone in the night.

Anyway, this is all super neat, and although it does give the player more "superpowers", from feedback it's been obvious for a long time that there needs to be more to Do™ in hyperspace to make it interesting past your very first playthrough. While it would be neat to see the occasional Pather fleet yeeting itself across the Sector, I can imagine the work trying to get the AI to cooperate with these abilities in a non-obnoxious way (and determining which NPC factions would get wormholes - though it might be fun to see that open up as the game/main storyline progresses) to not really be worth the potential payoff, compared to just making thing interesting for the player.

And it's worth pointing out that the Slipsurges, from the sound of it, aren't without risk. Use a really big one, and you could end up yeeting yourself clean out of the main bounds of the Sector, which is where Things™ are!

Though, that's probably not too big a deal. It's just dark out there, after all. And they're waiting to say hello.

I am wondering if Alfonso might have to revise the "edge of sector" static constellation in HMI a bit, though...

Wormholes/WH-Anchor sounds interesting, but considering how strapped for real estate 90% of systems are in regard to stable locations, I can't see it become of much use.

This is a point of consideration, though. It's already nearly mandatory to have a comm array in a system you want to control, and depending on build, nav buoys can feel needful too. So with this, we're already hitting all three possible stable points, and if a Gate takes up another, welp. And of course, a lot of systems don't even have all three points, and you can only generate two via grav manipulation (with stable point #2 costing an arm and leg in story points).

This might be intentional in design, but I do wonder about feel in practice. Certainly on paper Hostile Activity looked neat and made sense, but going by feedback, hasn't translated to good game feel.

---

Anyhow, I also have a World Building Question in all this: it's generally been assumed, ever since the Orion-Perseus Abyss label was added all those years ago, that it represents the Persean-side edge of the large, star-thin area between the Orion and Perseus Arms of the galaxy. Is that still accurate? Is it known in-universe if this is something Else? Can you reveal how many Spacer Rumors there are in-universe about this area of space, since we're presumably not the first to try and go in there?

also:

It's estabilished from the begining since you can spend 15 skillpoints on combat skills when other human officers max out at 7, Alpha cores max out at 8 and Omega maxes out at 10. You're the dog, man.

And more to the point, anything in the skills can be done by other captains. You explicitly get both of the first-tier science active abilities outside of their skills as part of the storyline (and can even surprise people by being stupidbrave enough to try Transversing on your own without software assistance) and you see others using those actives. Enemy fleet commanders can even have capstone fleet-altering skills (and in fact can go beyond their actual stated level in skills). We're not comparatively that "super-human". We just get a few extra skills from high-end levels, and at least one of those skills involves us just deciding to Break Da Law™ and figuring out how to do that (which, as a side note, I wish got more acknowledgment from patrol NPCs in various polities). This is actually the first instance of us getting to do things the non-player can't, and at least one of these will be tied deeply to the progression of the main story. It would, again, be neat to see the occasional yeeting NPC, but clearly being able to do that involves a lot of research and mapping on your part, and anyone else who's done it is likely keeping their cards close to their chest.

I do somewhat understand where Helldiver's coming from (the game up till now has been pretty good about the player not having any truly outlandish abilities that the wider Sector couldn't do, at least not without a well-rationalized explanation for why that is), but I think it's a bit of an over-reaction.

---

Edit:

Why do that if the game ends already, when we have enough resources to do all this stuff? So, my question is: do you plan to introduce some end-game activity (hopefully: something bigger than randomly generated REDACTED raids)?

Spoiler

Given what is 99% likely to be required to unlock Gate-building, I would, by 1.0 and possibly even in this coming update, absolutely expect there to be Things to fight beyond standard [REDACTED] raids, and probably even beyond [SUPER ALABASTER] combat.

Which is also to say... huh, are we getting the rest of the main story in several more updates? I always figured it'd be done in one go. But given the scope of what's in this update...

[close]

[FooF]

“Here be dragons…” Love it. 

As to all the movement and QoL shenanigans, all are welcome. Until Hyperspace has more to do in it, I don’t mind finding faster ways to go from A to B. The gravitational catapult seems…dubious…from a suspension of disbelief perspective but it does seem cool! Polarity on the slipstreams are a godsend.

The wormhole requiring an entire cycle is the only thing that felt excessive. I get you don’t want it to be a town portal but 6 months doesn’t achieve the same effect? An in-game month can take awhile if you’re spending a lot of times in menus and combat: an in-game year can be hours of real-time to wait for the thing to activate. If you’re just flying around exploring on sped up time, eh, I guess it’s not that long but getting a new-fangled device and waiting a year to use it feels off on its surface.

[JenkoRun]

The wormhole requiring an entire cycle is the only thing that felt excessive. I get you don’t want it to be a town portal but 6 months doesn’t achieve the same effect? An in-game month can take awhile if you’re spending a lot of times in menus and combat: an in-game year can be hours of real-time to wait for the thing to activate. If you’re just flying around exploring on sped up time, eh, I guess it’s not that long but getting a new-fangled device and waiting a year to use it feels off on its surface.

Was thinking the same, this is probably the only thing in the update I'm not going starry eyed over, 6 months feels more balanced.

Btw I have a suggestion for the Abyss Alex, make the music fade out as you enter into it and replace with silence, maybe with an occasional distant ambient sound, it's the perfect ground for some creepy environment ambience stuff.

[Alex]

For what it's worth I'm actually glad to hear this, because when I read "up to burn level 900+" my first thought was Pathers setting up hyperspace cannons to slingshot tithe collectors to every random fleet within a ~10 lightyear radius. Definitely looking forward to trying these things myself, though .

Hah, yeah. Might be kind of fun though, honestly; just imagining the visual of a bunch of enemy fleets coming out of slip-burn all around you.

Oh look. A star. Alone. In the pitch black abyss.

...

I'm sure it's fine.

Totally! (Good eye )

I'm EXTREMELY excited for the spooky concepts coming next. I'm not very sure about the wormholes, though. Keep it up!

*thumbs up*

Wormholes/WH-Anchor sounds interesting, but considering how strapped for real estate 90% of systems are in regard to stable locations, I can't see it become of much use. Could be useful pre-industrial stage for people with a more... pirate-y/trade-y penchant. I guess only the player will be able to place/remove them and that there will be no limitations on which systems can be furnished with an anchor. It would be nice to set up in two systems either for trading or for raiding. I don't know how feasible it is to actually let others use the wormholes without the McGuffin-key, but maybe allow them to use it but with some consequences? Like, fleet damage/vast CR hit.

They're also pretty fuel efficient - it's a flat (low-ish) cost regardless of distance. It's hard for me to see how they wouldn't be useful (heck, at times even putting one in a nearby system might be worthwhile, just to have an easy shortcut to the other side of the Sector somewhere), but I guess we'll see!

It would be pretty cool if we were able to very rarely find wormholes in some systems. Like imagine going into it and ending at other end of the sector (ok maybe no so exagerated but you get what i mean)

That sounds neat! It'd have to be some kind of "naturally occurring" wormhole, though; not one where you can pick up the anchor. If you get more than a couple of those, they really step on the toes of the Gates! They kinda would anyway, honestly. But still, neat idea!

I feel... spoiled? By all this. It will make Hyperspace travel almost too easy. An extra Gate wherever you want it is a massive QoL for colonies and while it will likely require an endgame fleet to obtain you can presumably use Wormholes in the meantime. Nice.

Hopefully easy in a more generally engaging way! I don't really have a problem with it being easy once you get all the options unlocked, though.

(It's also worth noting that the new Gate in particular can take a *long* time to come online, depending on... factors. But hey, more of a window of extra usefulness for the wormholes.)

I never did...

Also, Abyssal space with things inside? Official EVE crossover confirmed?

Hah - oh, wow, I had no idea that Eve of all games went there! Not super familiar with it (only played it a little, a while back) but wouldn't have imagined it to have that sort of stuff in it.

So what's the cost of "Generated Slipsurge", I can't seem to find that info but I'd assume it's just fuel right? And if I understood the mechanics of it, you essentially aim it by positioning your fleet relative to the gravity well as a sort of a pointer.

At the moment it's 3 light-years worth of fuel (i.e. a lot less than you'd generally travel with one) and an e-burn worth of CR. And, yeah, re: aiming - you got it.

I'd request just some extensions to the bar; additional slots that don't have a hot-key for them. There are a number of abilities that I'm perfectly fine with having to click; notably, anything that is both rarely used and deleterious if used at the wrong time (like, oh, interdiction pulse, for example.)

Ah, that's not a bad idea at all - I'll keep that in mind! I was a little hung up on shortcut keys, but you're right.

I have a question. You see, we can, for example, choose specific planets to colonise, set arrays in systems to increase stream detection range etc... Everything to improve our QoL. But...

Why do that if the game ends already, when we have enough resources to do all this stuff? So, my question is: do you plan to introduce some end-game activity (hopefully: something bigger than randomly generated REDACTED raids)?

I feel like there's a decent period while your colonies ramp up that the game isn't "over", but yeah, it's a very valid point overall. Ultimately the goal is to 1) have endgame challenges and 2) have colonies factor into helping you beat those in ways that they currently don't.

The gravitational catapult seems…dubious…from a suspension of disbelief perspective but it does seem cool! Polarity on the slipstreams are a godsend.

Yeah, I hear you - hopefully the visuals and the (not yet extant) sound effects will help sell it.

The wormhole requiring an entire cycle is the only thing that felt excessive. I get you don’t want it to be a town portal but 6 months doesn’t achieve the same effect? An in-game month can take awhile if you’re spending a lot of times in menus and combat: an in-game year can be hours of real-time to wait for the thing to activate. If you’re just flying around exploring on sped up time, eh, I guess it’s not that long but getting a new-fangled device and waiting a year to use it feels off on its surface.

Hmm, maybe? I feel like it's also good to have it be long enough that you *definitely* don't decide to just wait it out. And 6 months feels borderline there. Worth keeping an eye on, though.

Btw I have a suggestion for the Abyss Alex, make the music fade out as you enter into it and replace with silence, maybe with an occasional distant ambient sound, it's the perfect ground for some creepy environment ambience stuff.

Hmm, yeah. It will have its own background loop and a muting sound filter applied to a lot of the sounds. And some ambient things! Music is an interesting question, though; I see where you're coming from. It might make sense to have a different music track there rather than turning it off entirely, though. Feel-wise silence makes sense but if you have music on in-game presumably you want to listen to some music so turning it off could also be a little iffy. Something to think on, definitely!

[SpaceDrake]

Btw I have a suggestion for the Abyss Alex, make the music fade out as you enter into it and replace with silence, maybe with an occasional distant ambient sound, it's the perfect ground for some creepy environment ambience stuff.

I'll point out that the game already has a perfect track for going deep into abyssal hyperspace. (I wouldn't be surprised if another track in that vein is made just for AHyper.)

Hah - oh, wow, I had no idea that Eve of all games went there! Not super familiar with it (only played it a little, a while back) but wouldn't have imagined it to have that sort of stuff in it.

Being extant for twenty years will do that to a game. There's all kinds of nonsense in EVE that doesn't make "the papers" - it's a game with a lot of work done on it over the years! And yeah, they've had "exploration" content of various sorts for a long while now.

Nooo, Alex ignored my own comments and questions ;.;

[AcaMetis]

Hah, yeah. Might be kind of fun though, honestly; just imagining the visual of a bunch of enemy fleets coming out of slip-burn all around you.

I'm now imagining Pather tithe collection fleets blasting in at Mach 20, overshooting their target and coming to a stop several lightyears away...right next to a Hegemony patrol fleet in the core . All the player sees is a weird blur in hyperspace, probably being dismissed as a sensor ghost.

Actually, that might be a good way to handwave other fleets ostensibly having this ability, but the player not seeing it used by them ingame - super fast sensor ghosts flying past so quickly you can't make out what they are before they're several lightyears outside sensor range.

Spoiler

And than it turns out those super fast sensor ghosts were never other fleets all along when one does end up coming to a stop next to you when you're in the abyss, instead revealing something else entirely .

[close]

[braciszek]

Oh look. A star. Alone. In the pitch black abyss.

...

I'm sure it's fine.

Totally! (Good eye )

I hope it's just the first breadcrumb of a series of breadcrumbs of systems and stuff that exist in the Abyss that we can't see in the map view. A first dot to draw the player over there, but there's more hiding outside of view.

[Alex]

Nooo, Alex ignored my own comments and questions ;.;

Ah, my bad - I didn't see it!

Anyhow, I also have a World Building Question in all this: it's generally been assumed, ever since the Orion-Perseus Abyss label was added all those years ago, that it represents the Persean-side edge of the large, star-thin area between the Orion and Perseus Arms of the galaxy. Is that still accurate? Is it known in-universe if this is something Else? Can you reveal how many Spacer Rumors there are in-universe about this area of space, since we're presumably not the first to try and go in there?

That's correct, yeah. No comment on the Space Rumors.

Spoiler

And than it turns out those super fast sensor ghosts were never other fleets all along when one does end up coming to a stop next to you when you're in the abyss, instead revealing something else entirely .

[close]

I like the way you think!

I hope it's just the first breadcrumb of a series of breadcrumbs of systems and stuff that exist in the Abyss that we can't see in the map view. A first dot to draw the player over there, but there's more hiding outside of view.

[Liral]

For what it's worth I'm actually glad to hear this, because when I read "up to burn level 900+" my first thought was Pathers setting up hyperspace cannons to slingshot tithe collectors to every random fleet within a ~10 lightyear radius. Definitely looking forward to trying these things myself, though .

Hah, yeah. Might be kind of fun though, honestly; just imagining the visual of a bunch of enemy fleets coming out of slip-burn all around you.

Any faction could slip-burn to force a battle throughout the Sector by awaiting in deep hyperspace and emerge when called over comm relay to slip-burn to a target designated by one of any number of spotter fleets of unassuming composition, low sensor profile, and high sensor strength.

However, every faction that could slip-burn would also send its every fleet straight to its destination with at most one 'chained' slip burn at a planned gravity well, reducing the time, cost, and risk of hyperspace travel.

This topic reminds me of a question: why do fleets travel with their transponders on in hyperspace?  They should rather turn them off to hide their identities and avoid detection by pirates.

[Nettle]

Judging by the screenshot of abyssal hyperspace in the blogpost, at some point it literally fades into a black-screen background? I really love the idea of abyssal hyperspace, reminds me of real life voids in-between our galaxy filaments, but the plain black-screen for background just seems a bit anticlimactic, which I guess is kind of the entire point, but still, I imagine at least some sort of background visuals to break up an otherwise plain nothing wouldn't hurt. Maybe something like bubbling, shifting ink, akin to regular hyperspace but much more subtle with all the light faded?

[Mordodrukow]

Ultimately the goal is to 1) have endgame challenges and 2) have colonies factor into helping you beat those in ways that they currently don't.

Sounds great! Imo, variant "you have to sacrifice something, but get great ability/tool in return" is better than "you get this minor thing just for free". First one means some decision making. Second one does not.

Also, i hope logistics management will allow to get benefits from hypershunt/cryosleeper/high command from greater distance. And/or improve accessibility.

Spoiler

Also about Abyss. When i saw that pulsating thing on the background in hyperspace i was like: "Hey, it looks like giant lovecraftian entity swallowing the sector. And thats why we are disconnected from the Domain now" I guess, it is not the case, but if Abyss is filled with "things" (things from The Thing maybe?), maybe they took over the Orion sector, guys from Domain noticed that and blocked the gates to prevent things from using em. Or maybe things feel active gates and move to them, so the Domain guys noticed that and shut gates down (and now Persean sector is doomed because we activated gates again... or maybe there will be a timer for invasion, which will be accelerated every time we use the gates, and this leads us to new gameplay decisions).

Sorry if i spoiled the plot.

[close]

[Platypus]

With regards to the ability/inability of non-player fleets to use the Generate Slipsurge ability, I think this is a relatively good opportunity to add some drastic faction variation. Perhaps relative low-tech factions like Pathers, the Church and maybe the Hegemony are unwilling or not yet able to utilise this tech, while Tri-Tach, the League and Diktat are able. I include Diktat in the bunch because their ships do tend toward technologically advanced, with energy/synergy weapons; and League because I... pity them, and they're not too bad with tech all things considered? I don't know about indies and pirate since there might be some balancing issue there, and besides they're both a loose collection anyhow. Although... perhaps it could be another gift to Kanta in exchange for protection? Instead of something tangible, which most of gifts are at the moment, it's simply valuable knowledge/experience; though, if that were to be implemented for the Generate Slipsurge ability, teaching pirates how to transverse jump will also have to be a thing for the sake of consistency...

Then again, if I understand the mechanics properly, a necessary prerequisite to this whole thing is the presence of non-indie/pirate/pather fleet outside of core systems. Could be interesting gameplay-wise, to mix up combat flavours out in the fringes, in addition to pirate/pather/[redacted]. Lore-wise, I think it'd make sense for commissioned auxiliaries of the big factions to be out in the fringes doing the dirty work like scanning stuff.

[JohndeFontaine]

Having the abyss play a soundtrack similar to the funny system without jump point would be super neat, if that has been thought about. Just hope it's not the same as the regular hyperspace soundtrack.