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Author Topic: Phase Lance range buff?  (Read 1479 times)

Goumindong

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2023, 03:09:01 PM »

I'm definitely open to buffing the PL in some way. I also don't want to make it "smart" re: not firing on shields etc; that feels like something to be *extremely* sparing with. (Not that this came up here, but that idea has come up before.)

Would the strike tag not work? It wouldn't not fire at shields. It just would not inefficiently trade soft flux for soft flux if the enemy wasn't at risk of overloading? Or would that prevent it from firing at fighters?

I feel like there has been a lot of "just adjusting the flux costs" every time any weapon feels deficient. Now maybe energy weapons in general have too high flux costs but also like... There still seems to be some, lets call it, "power creep" as weapons are adjusted.
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PsychoThruster

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2023, 03:57:48 PM »

Actually a percent chance to bypass shields would be neat. Maybe something like a random 5-40 percent chance per hit. Keep the shorter range, but give it a unique twist as a skirmish weapon.
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Megas

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2023, 04:18:33 PM »

The biggest problem with more range is High Scatter Amplifier.  High Scatter Amplifier was nerfed partially because of Phase Lance.  That said, Phase Lance, or rather, Phase Beam originally had 700 range (I think), but beam range was all over the place, with HIL having 1200, Tach Lance 2500+, and I forgot if Tactical Laser and Graviton Beam had different range.  More efficiency would be nice.  There are few ships I consider Phase Lance on.

As for buff, restore the EMP damage (but no arcing) it used to have (back when it was Phase Beam and few releases after it became Phase Lance) before it was removed.  Don't restore OP cost back up to 12, though.  More efficiency would be nice too.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2023, 04:23:47 PM by Megas »
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2023, 05:28:05 PM »

Just thinking of the phase aspect of this weapon, it would be cool if it slows down time for a target while it hits (armor) - the inverse effect of phase cloak. It fires for just a second or two, so the effect would not be too dangerous, just add a neat support function.  The dime dilation effect of multiple beams should probably stack, to make alternating vs. linked fire a real choice.

This sounds super cool! ... for, like, a large [SUPER REDACTED] weapon :)
Not gonna lie the idea of a [HYPER REDACTED] burst beam that applies reverse temporal shell on hit sounds like it would be potentially the ultimate flyswatter and i am all here for it.
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BaBosa

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2023, 06:15:37 AM »

Phase lance was for when you wanted anti armour but didn't need heavy blasters DPS. The mining blaster is defiantly squeezing it. I'm wondering if slowing down mining blasters projectile speed and maybe increasing recoil/spread and increasing phase lances turn rate would help specialize it. Adding emp arcs also sounds like a good way to go. Maybe even decrease the range more and increase its burst. Make phase lance punish anything that gets close, especially frigates.
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Candesce

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2023, 08:16:52 AM »

I still use the Phase Lance, but the number of places where I would has dropped notably. As energy weapons go, it's got very nice armor penetration and it can get +200 range from Advanced Optics, but the Pulse Laser's improved efficiency and the Mining Blaster's upgrade have cut into a bunch of the places I used to use it in.

Efficiency would certainly do a lot to bring it back; losing that 1.2 flux penalty means there's a whole bunch of frigates I could be much more free to mount it on, in addition to having it hit shields suck less.
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Gothars

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2023, 10:47:50 AM »

Maybe it could do EMP damage to phased ships. It's a small niche, but it's a niche.
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Cruacious

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2023, 11:07:21 AM »

Maybe it could do EMP damage to phased ships. It's a small niche, but it's a niche.
What if it could strike through phase cloak? That would be a VERY useful niche but not be too overpowering by itself.
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Gothars

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2023, 11:24:16 AM »

Mh, aren't we saying the same thing? Strike trough phase cloak - but dealing more than EMP damage would be too much of a hard counter to phase ships, I'd think.
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Cruacious

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2023, 11:38:34 AM »

That's actually a fair point. How about a meet in the middle? What if a Phase Lance could infuse flux into a target in phase instead of EMP or raw damage? That would be an interesting balance choice and not exactly a hard counter but still a real threat to phase ships.
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Candesce

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2023, 12:17:35 PM »

Phase Lance already murders phase ships, on account of them not having shields and being a burst-beam with extremely fast time on target.

AI might need to understand how to use them better rather than just cycling them while the phase ship remains in phase, though.
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Gothars

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2023, 08:02:47 AM »

AI might need to understand how to use them better rather than just cycling them while the phase ship remains in phase, though.

Not if it had an effect while they are phased, it needn't  ;)
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TheLaughingDead

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2023, 03:14:43 PM »

You know what would be super cool? If the Phase Lance kept its short-range, burst, beam profile, but it got a shotgun effect. So basically, instead of firing one beam, the PL would fire three (or more?) beams in some sort of pattern (random or defined) and the more beams that land, the more damage!

Of course if each beam did the PL's current damage of 1 250 that would be waaay too much of a buff with 300% DPS, but if we reduced it so all the beams added to 1 250 then that would basically be a flat nerf (not all beams hit all the time). So an example using three beams would be, each beam would do <1 250 damage but >420 damage.

And a good way to choose the amount of damage is by how wide the spread on the beams are. If the spread is really narrow, it is more likely that all the beams will hit, so the beams added together shouldn't do too much more damage than the current PL, but if the spread is really wide (so getting the most out of the weapon requires knife-fighting range) then the individual beams should do a lot of damage, since most won't hit anyway. And some other balance suggestions in this thread could work with it too, like maybe the DPS is the same but the weapon charges more beams over time to fire in a shotgun blast (adding charges to another weapon might be too much?), or the weapon has higher range (1000 su?) but the beams have a wide spread resulting in DPS based on distance!
Or even something as simple as a slow turn rate, so whereas the current PL does 100% damage against a frigate because of pinpoint accuracy and one beam, the Shotgun PL could have a higher DPS but maybe only 75% of that DPS lands consistently on anything but the largest targets or swarms of fighters. And a slower turn radius would give Advanced Optics a higher trade-off since the weapon would move agonizingly slowly but have better range to land all its beams (not to mention a more fighter/frigate-oriented ship with a Shotgun PL would coincide really well with the Advanced Turret Gyros S-mod bonus).

This would give the weapon an interesting profile, since it would be somewhat better at anti-fighter (more beams = possibly hitting more fighters), it would do more burst damage if all beams landed (more likely against large ships), but it would also maintain its consistency against frigates without really doing that much more damage.
Oh, and it would look awesome  :P

Or alternatively, give the PL's beam the ability to curve, making it waaay better in hardpoints! Sounds like a programming nightmare, but that would be cool. Maybe justified in-universe as a warp in how light reflects/refracts while phased, and the PL's beam enters that realm?
The degree to which it could curve would be up for some debate. If the curve is weak, it just gives the Phase Lance more flexibility in hardpoints (since its turn rate is great but useless in all but turrets). If the curve is really strong, maybe the PL could arc shots around a ship's narrow shield, which would solidify its anti-armour role while bypassing its weakness against shields in some niche cases. And while dangerous against frigates, if the weapon's OP cost or damage output were readjusted, I think it could be justified as a non-Omega weapon.
Not to mention, it would also look awesome  :P :P :P
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Goumindong

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2023, 12:21:00 AM »

That probably does t work just because of how armor works.
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SCC

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Re: Phase Lance range buff?
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2023, 05:12:39 AM »

You can create beam shotgun with high armour penetration by making the beams very short lasting, but also with high continuous damage values. A beam that deals 100 damage over 0.1 seconds deals 1000 damage a second (well, if it could fire a whole second), meaning its treated for armour damage reduction purposes as if it was a 1000 damage per second beam (so 500, because beams use half their continuous damage for armour damage reduction).
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