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[Grievous69]

This thing went too far, seriously now. You have all these factions in the Sector, with rich background and goals, stellar ship design, use of modern weapons.

Yet who is the strongest? Bunch of religious fanatics who terrorize everyone who dare use a digital clock. D-mods barely impact their performance. Majority of their ships have Safety Overrides - AT NO COST - why?? The very hullmod that is so disgustingly broken that had to be made impossible to s-mod.

I already knew Manticore LP was going to be a *** ship, and here it is, somehow being even more annoying than I could've imagined. Ah yes let's have a 12 DP destroyer with a large missile mount, with built-in SO, which can also mount medium ballistics, what could go wrong. I swear there's not a single other faction where I have to completely change my playstyle and play like a turtle in an RTS. Hammer Barrage is a cool weapon, but with such a low refire delay, it shouldn't be on so many enemy ships, it just shouldn't. Missile creep went too far.

Brawler LP finally got slightly nerfed after how even long since it was introduced., other LP ain't much worse either. It's such an excruciatingly tedious faction to fight, I'm shocked they aren't an end game enemy.

Venture LP isn't on the same monkey poop level but it just reinforces the whole "in your face constantly spamming ordnance" thing the Path has. So can we bring it down a notch? There's no reason a faction known for hating technology to be stronger than every other main faction. SO with so many missiles is just cheap.

EDIT: At least let us use "the item" to delete them from the game.

[Amoebka]

It's not really even the free SO, it's SO in general. Their Eradicators get it at full cost and still steamroll over anything. Full SO is powerful cheese, both in player's hands and otherwise.

[Grievous69]

You're kinda right, when we get that promised SO rework, I believe it's going to be less extreme. You still have to admit, having an impactful hullmod for no cost while retaining same DP costs is crazy. Yeah they do get an extra d-mod slapped on top but I rarely see that make a difference.

On the other hand we have LG ships which are the polar opposite. I don't mind very easy and very hard opponents, but they could both stand to be a bit closer to the middle.

[PsychoThruster]

Safety overrides should just make ships that overload simply blow up imo, make cap less efficient, and lose the range debuff.

[Megas]

Even if Pathers were not as dominating in combat, they still have their campaign immortally.  Campaign immortally makes Pathers and Pirates the most powerful factions in the game.  Player can wipe all the core worlds off the map, and kill as many pirate and pather fleets and bases as he wants, but those two zombie factions will pop up more bases out of nothing and still be there to terrorize the player's colonies.

EDIT: At least let us use "the item" to delete them from the game.

The planetkiller?  Yes, I would like to able to light it off to crack a planet more than sat bombing can ever do if I feel spiteful.  Why should I turn it over to a major faction when I can become the big boss of a new major faction by endgame and hold on to the bomb until I want to light it off?  Owning five size 6 planets with strong economy and military ought to be enough power to qualify as a major faction in terms of strength.

[Grievous69]

Safety overrides should just make ships that overload simply blow up imo, make cap less efficient, and lose the range debuff.

That actually sounds fitting, it just seems like it would be easily abusable by kiting.

[Arlian]

Am I the only one who considers fighting LP to be the on the same tier as fighting Pirates? I run an all high tech fleet and LP fleets just melt like a knife through butter. I've never considered them more than slightly better pirate trash buckets that are barely worth the XP for fighting them.

On a sidenote, why does the Gremlin have a LP variant? For a faction that's so technophobic, they sure love to use cutting edge experimental tech when it suits them (phase technology).

[Tigasboss]

On a sidenote, why does the Gremlin have a LP variant? For a faction that's so technophobic, they sure love to use cutting edge experimental tech when it suits them (phase technology).

Because they're hypocrites, there's even a dialogue in the campaign where an npc talks about Brother Cotton, and how he loves to bend the paths rules to his benefit, having cool tech and manipulating the useful idiots of the Path. Wouldn't surprise me if they rationalized about how its right to use sinful tech against sinners.

[CapnHector]

Am I the only one who considers fighting LP to be the on the same tier as fighting Pirates? I run an all high tech fleet and LP fleets just melt like a knife through butter. I've never considered them more than slightly better pirate trash buckets that are barely worth the XP for fighting them.

On a sidenote, why does the Gremlin have a LP variant? For a faction that's so technophobic, they sure love to use cutting edge experimental tech when it suits them (phase technology).

No, they are just Pirates with a different flavor and slightly more difficulty. A somewhat decent fleet that has no chance against a full Ordo will mow them down. I personally like their flavor, it's too bad the Prometheus MkII and Colossus MkII are such weak ships. As a concrete example 2x Pegasus 3x Venture (P) and a bunch of frigates were what I first used to take out a Luddic Path base and 2 supporting fleets this run.

Edit to add: as well known, some of their ships are ridiculously strong and endgame tier though, specifically Brawler LP and apparently Manticore LP. Arguably extremely strong. Also Kite LP as a special case has marginal uses. Which is good, a faction should have something to make it interesting. If you were to face an optimized LP fleet including Brawler spam without their special D-mod it would be terrifying. Would be a fun special encounter, maybe for shooting that one guy.

[Amoebka]

Why should I turn it over to a major faction when I can become the big boss of a new major faction by endgame and hold on to the bomb until I want to light it off?

David is hellbent on keeping the player character a powerless nobody story-wise. If you want those pathers off your case, hand them the candy and don't forget to bow as well..

[Megas]

David is hellbent on keeping the player character a powerless nobody story-wise. If you want those pathers off your case, hand them the candy and don't forget to bow as well..

Which does not make sense after the player worked hard and earned the new superpower nation he founded.

With more recent releases, the character is more and more defined like a named jRPG protagonist or party leader stuck on rails.  The character feels too smart and wise, with a hint of a cheating trickster, like classic Harrison Ford characters (Han Solo/Indiana Jones) or their derivatives in other franchises like Joseph Joestar.

[PsychoThruster]

Safety overrides should just make ships that overload simply blow up imo, make cap less efficient, and lose the range debuff.

That actually sounds fitting, it just seems like it would be easily abusable by kiting.

I don't think so, they'll be susceptible to pressure from carriers and I imagine the safety overrides makes it so there's no actual safety shut off from shooting so they can blow up if they try to kite continuously without backing off, obviously some tweaking would be done to find the right balance, but I think it's the most sensible change

[Lucky33]

What do you mean by "missile creep went too far"? I didn't even bothered to play previous version because it was all those flux bubbles again. What you call a missile creep is a needed diversity in the flux based mono-culture. Remove it or tone it down and it will be same ships doing same things all other again. Starsector didn't make it to be the chess in space. So it needs some form of extensive balance to produce some impact. New stuff doing new things. The whole missile-anti-missile-fighter thing is exactly this stuff. It doesn't went too far. It is exactly there it should be. Popping flux bubbles.

[Grievous69]

What do you mean by "missile creep went too far"? I didn't even bothered to play previous version because it was all those flux bubbles again. What you call a missile creep is a needed diversity in the flux based mono-culture. Remove it or tone it down and it will be same ships doing same things all other again. Starsector didn't make it to be the chess in space. So it needs some form of extensive balance to produce some impact. New stuff doing new things. The whole missile-anti-missile-fighter thing is exactly this stuff. It doesn't went too far. It is exactly there it should be. Popping flux bubbles.

Ah yes that is why most of the players in end game spammed Gryphons, Apogees and other missile users with Squalls. Truly diverse.

[Lucky33]

What do you mean by "missile creep went too far"? I didn't even bothered to play previous version because it was all those flux bubbles again. What you call a missile creep is a needed diversity in the flux based mono-culture. Remove it or tone it down and it will be same ships doing same things all other again. Starsector didn't make it to be the chess in space. So it needs some form of extensive balance to produce some impact. New stuff doing new things. The whole missile-anti-missile-fighter thing is exactly this stuff. It doesn't went too far. It is exactly there it should be. Popping flux bubbles.

Ah yes that is why most of the players in end game spammed Gryphons, Apogees and other missile users with Squalls. Truly diverse.

What "most players" are you even talking about?