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[CapnHector]

Ladies and gentlemen. I have discovered another underappreciated ship to love. The Rampart. I took out the special bounty fleet under AI control using this wonderful ship, and share the combat report below. This post is entirely about spoilers, so they are not redacted; please, if you haven't played through the game, read no further.

Prelude: the Sacking of Jangala

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In a world where waste rules the sector, evolution brings forth a new form of hybrid life, created out of used materials. Green skin. Silver guns. Blue rockets. Teal drones. Red core.



With Derelict Operations and 5-6 D-Mods, this ship costs 11 DP to deploy. Let that sink in.

Here is my 239 DP fleet of mainly this ship + 3 Conquests, 4 Kites and 1 Scarab for the humans, using Derelict Operations. This brings 13 Ramparts, which are able to reach 41% combat readiness, so long as all the Derelicts have many D-Mods, you have Crew Training, and each core has Combat Endurance, due to the interaction between Derelict Operations and Automated Ships. This fleet brings:

• 19 Squalls, with Elite Missile Spec and Elite Target Analysis
• 19 Mjolnir Cannons
• 16 Fighter Bays
• Capital grade armor and hull HP on each ship, with elite Polarized Armor and Combat Endurance
• Half the negative effect from D-Mods, including Converted Hangar
• No shields

Before taking on the Special Bounty, I used this as an Ordo farming fleet to collect the Story Points to build in the hullmods and integrate the AI on each ship. So long as you have the Ramparts and the weapons and can build in 2 hullmods on most of them, it can take on an Ordo without player input if you press full assault at the start. So I sped up time to 3-5 x and just took on Ordos repeatedly to complete the build. Some derelicts will die; you want them to. They become stronger from dying since you can fit in more ships with more D-mods, although only integrate the AI when the fleet is otherwise complete.

Character skills & fleet composition

Mods are Nexerelin and Starship Legends, so if a ship happened to roll higher combat readiness as an attribute from the latter, it can reach higher in the screenshot, but 41% is where we would be in Vanilla.

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Ships for the humans

Special officer gets a special ship that I found drifting somewhere.

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There is no playership in this fleet, the AI pilots every ship.

Battle Report

We get a fairly ordinary Ordo with a Tesseract added in. It rolls +12% damage from Starship Legends which is nice (my ships do not get +damage in general, for those not familiar):


Send frigates to cap Comm Relays, gather your forces:


The fleet is deployed:


We use "Defend" as the attack move command this game needs but does not have:


Engaging the enemy:


At this point with the battle line established "Full Assault" goes on and is never switched off during the battle, nor any further commands issued. This is the most important thing to learn about this fleet. Unlike shields, armor does not regenerate. You must be aggressive, and once you have the battle line established you cannot stop to defend at all, else the Ramparts will just die one by one. This fleet will quite possibly die even to a regular Ordo if you attempt defensive play.

The Radiant gets surrounded trying to go after the Conquests and dies:


The horde of drones mops up Remnants. The Tesseract comes out to play, but it really can't face this many Squalls.


The Tesseract 01011001 17c548 manages to snipe a few Ramparts, but then goes down somewhat unceremoniously.


Killing its facets and shards is no problem. They generally do not have very good anti-armor anti-hull weaponry and die to the Devastator Cannons and Mjolnirs. Squalls run out, but this is the end.


Combat outcome.


Starship Legends combat report. Note the absolutely insane efficiency of the Rampart in terms of damage dealt for DP.

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So, that's the Rampart. Of course, Remnants are just about the worst opponent for it - it really does not appreciate fast and tough frigates, and I put in the fighters to counter these. Also, if you put in PD, it will attempt to use it against enemy ships, and flak does not even reliably work against Alpha Core Radiants' Reapers. Human fleets do not stand a chance, however. A thoroughly enjoyable ship.

Let's discuss the Rampart and Derelict ships in general if you like.

[Amoebka]

This is really just Squall being an incredibly well balanced and flawlessly designed weapon. Rampart has very little to do with this build's success, you can replicate it with any ship that can spam large missiles cheaply.

[CapnHector]

True! But the whole point of the Rampart is specifically that it can mount pretty good weapons for cheap. It does not really have other notable qualities other than serious armor and a somewhat unique aesthetic in all its box-like glory. In fact I originally came up with this build because I wanted to bring the maximum number of Squalls and Mjolnirs to a fight. I intended to put in Atlas MkIIs too but then I got carried away with the Ramparts when I realized I can actually fit 13.

I think it's a pretty cool ship, unique playstyle with no reliable PD or shields.

[intrinsic_parity]

I think the moral of the story is that squall needs a nerf.

[Alex]

Neat - I'd love to know how well this kind of build works with the new Squall! It does 100 base damage, +150 extra (matching current damage) vs shields only. So in testing so far, it's much less capable of grinding enemies down through pure Squall spam and needs something else to be paired with it to actually taking advantage of the window it creates - otherwise, enemy hull/armor tends to outlast the Squall ammo. Going to make a note to give this a quick try!

I do love seeing a build like this work, though, that's pretty fun!


For reference, this is what the SquallOnFireEffect looks like:

Spoiler

public class SquallOnFireEffect implements OnFireEffectPlugin, DamageDealtModifier {

   public static float DAMAGE = 150;

   protected String weaponId = null;
   
   public void onFire(DamagingProjectileAPI projectile, WeaponAPI weapon, CombatEngineAPI engine) {
      ShipAPI ship = weapon.getShip();
      if (!ship.hasListenerOfClass(SquallOnFireEffect.class)) {
         ship.addListener(this);
         weaponId = weapon.getId();
      }
   }
   
   public String modifyDamageDealt(Object param, CombatEntityAPI target, DamageAPI damage, Vector2f point, boolean shieldHit) {
      if (shieldHit && param instanceof MissileAPI) {
         MissileAPI m = (MissileAPI) param;
         if (m.getWeaponSpec() != null && m.getWeaponSpec().getWeaponId().equals(weaponId)) {
            float base = damage.getBaseDamage();
            damage.setDamage(base + DAMAGE);
            return "squall";
         }
      }
      return null;
   }
   
   
}

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[basileus]

Nice job, Hector.  I think this is an even easier life run than my runs.  Just press full assault, and any attrition is all part of the plan and makes you stronger.

[MajorTheRed]

Nice post, the zombie Derelict fleet is a very interesting concept but need a proper built character to leverage the most of it! Never did it myself cause you need to invest a lot of time in it.

Outside the Squall spam, I have found the Rampart has its own quality: an Agressive AI, Burn Drive and with the proper skills select for a Gamma Core it has a ridiculous amount of health. I found them especially great to assault Space station and anything the size of a cruiser or bigger.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

What always stops me from trying these "spam" fleet comps is fuel use. Whether you use Support Doctrine or Derelict Operations(or both) you get bonuses to supply but never to fuel which results in an extremely inefficient fleet.

[CapnHector]

Good point! Alex, can we get a fuel use reduction on Derelict Operations, too? The skill is mostly eclipsed by Hull Restoration anyway, so it would not be overpowered even then and would encourage more of these quirky scrap builds.

A couple of notes though:

• This is probably the most campaign efficient endgame fleet that I have played. With Field Repairs we get the free repairs and +44% repair rate, so in fact fighting Ordos is supply and fuel positive since the Derelicts get a reduction to deployment costs and are almost instantly ready to fight again after a battle.
• Because you are investing in industry for this build, you generally probably take Containment Procedures, which in my fleet's case results in -21% fuel use and +25% fuel salvaged.
• You can also take Bulk Transport and Salvaging, which I in fact should have given I no longer pilot any ships after getting the Derelicts. My character has legacy Ordnance Expertise and Polarized armor despite flying a tanker, so there are 2 Industry skills I could respec.

Also, re: Squall, I tried the following changes to the build:

• Replace Squall with Locust
• Replace Mjolnir with Mark IX
• Add Armored Weapon Mounts

otherwise identical except different number of vents. It still beat an Ordo cleanly using just the standard deploy as many ships as you can and issue a full assault order, no further player input.

Build:


I need to try this vs the special bounty fleet when I have the chance, but this build also seems quite viable.

[Vanshilar]

Neat - I'd love to know how well this kind of build works with the new Squall! It does 100 base damage, +150 extra (matching current damage) vs shields only. So in testing so far, it's much less capable of grinding enemies down through pure Squall spam and needs something else to be paired with it to actually taking advantage of the window it creates - otherwise, enemy hull/armor tends to outlast the Squall ammo. Going to make a note to give this a quick try!

Thing is, pretty much every ship that can equip a Squall also has a way to do good anti-armor and anti-hull damage:

* Rampart has 2 Large Ballistics for Mjolnir/Hephaestus
* Apogee has Large Energy for HIL
* Gryphon has 2 Medium Missiles for Harpoons, and 3 Small Missiles for Annihilators/Breaches
* Atlas2 has 2 Large Ballistics for Mjolnir/Hephaestus
* Champion has Large Energy for HIL
* Prometheus2 has 2 Large Hybrids for HIL/Mjolnir/Hephaestus
* Conquest has 2 Large Ballistics (per broadside) for Mjolnir/Hephaestus and 2 Medium Missiles for Harpoons
* Legion XIV can equip bombers
* Astral can equip bombers

Since Squalls cost no flux, and deal kinetic damage at long range, all of these ships retain their entire flux pool for anti-armor and anti-hull damage once the enemy ships close within ballistic/energy weapon range, with the enemy ships' flux already driven up. So ships with Large Missiles are basically self-sufficient at anti-armor and anti-hull to provide the "complete package" to take out enemy ships. So I don't feel like the Squall nerf will really do all that much.

For example, looking at the fleet I'm currently testing, flagship Onslaught XIV with Atlas2's with dual Squalls, dual Mjolnirs, and dual Railguns with BRF. Against double Ordos, the Squalls only do around 25-30% of the armor and hull damage, with Mjolnirs contributing around 60-65%, and Railguns around 10%. The change will mean that the Squalls will do around 30% of its current damage to armor and hull. So a "naive" estimate is that the ship loses 20% of its anti-armor and anti-hull DPS. But in reality the Mjolnirs will end up doing more of the anti-armor and anti-hull damage, so the actual effect will be less than this. Since anti-armor and anti-hull make up less than 40% of the DPS, this means that this build will lose roughly 7% of its overall DPS. So it'll affect it somewhat, but not much.

(A video of this fleet in action can be found here, although this run was the slowest completion that I had with this fleet, the only one over 300 seconds -- never fails, when I go to record it:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUFaDqbixk

[Draba]

This is really just Squall being an incredibly well balanced and flawlessly designed weapon. Rampart has very little to do with this build's success, you can replicate it with any ship that can spam large missiles cheaply.

For example, looking at the fleet I'm currently testing, flagship Onslaught XIV with Atlas2's with dual Squalls, dual Mjolnirs, and dual Railguns with BRF. Against double Ordos, the Squalls only do around 25-30% of the armor and hull damage, with Mjolnirs contributing around 60-65%, and Railguns around 10%. The change will mean that the Squalls will do around 30% of its current damage to armor and hull. So a "naive" estimate is that the ship loses 20% of its anti-armor and anti-hull DPS. But in reality the Mjolnirs will end up doing more of the anti-armor and anti-hull damage, so the actual effect will be less than this. Since anti-armor and anti-hull make up less than 40% of the DPS, this means that this build will lose roughly 7% of its overall DPS. So it'll affect it somewhat, but not much.

Do agree that squalls are strong ofc, but IMO in these video derelict operations is the bigger factor.
In my experience fleets that would otherwise have trouble walk over the same enemies with the derelict discount, and that effect is very pronounced when you give them long range weapons with lots of missiles that can fire over friendlies.

[Sundog]

This is a really cool/atypical fleet comp that I never would've considered! Most of my fleets end up veering toward quality over quantity and preventing losses rather than making them acceptable, so my perspective is somewhat limited when it comes to this kind of playstyle. Would you mind sharing how starship legends affected this run, particularly with regard to the loyalty mechanic? I'm happy to see a bell-curve of loyalty levels in your battle report, but did you have to adjust any settings to get loyalty to work well with this fleet? Did loyalty reductions ever seem unfair or excessive?

Also, holy crap the Epsilon-Lucy dealt 3433% damage!

[CapnHector]

Honestly, the Loyalty mechanic is just bad for this fleet. I think Starship Legends makes this particular playthrough simply harder than Vanilla, since it means that losses are not negligible after you integrate the AI core. Nor are the random traits particularly great, for example look at the Epsilon-Lucy:



Only weapon range and hull HP are really beneficial, and they in no way compensate for the ship potentially losing max combat readiness (and malfunctioning) if it is destroyed more than it survives. Also, +12% damage dealt by the Omega Remnant fleet is brutal by comparison to the bonuses.

Still, I love this mod and I honestly think it's fair, even if it's harder than vanilla. The practical implication for me was I needed to grind up loyalty by fighting human fleets before the final challenge. Nothing seems unfair or excessive, even if the mod is obviously not suited to this fleet. If you wanted to, you could consider AI loyalty not affecting max CR, since Automated Ships works in a funny way where that can lead to unintended results like being able to field more than you should or alternatively ships becoming unusable.

[Sundog]

Thank you very much! I'm ok with variations in difficulty for different playstyles (within reason), but I don't want people to feel the need to grind loyalty in preparation for tough fights.

If you wanted to, you could consider AI loyalty not affecting max CR, since Automated Ships works in a funny way where that can lead to unintended results like being able to field more than you should or alternatively ships becoming unusable.

I think that's a good idea. I'll do that. I think I'll also add a new automated-exclusive trait that drastically reduces the chance of loyalty loss, similar to "unshakable crew" for ships with rugged construction. A trait that reduces loyalty loss based on d-mods might be cool too. Hmm...

[Alex]

Good point! Alex, can we get a fuel use reduction on Derelict Operations, too? The skill is mostly eclipsed by Hull Restoration anyway, so it would not be overpowered even then and would encourage more of these quirky scrap builds.

Hmm. I think if anything, Derelict Operations is too strong. If it's overshadowed by Hull Restoration, I think it's either 1) for early-in-the-campaign before a respec case, or 2) psychological "don't like d-mods" reasons.

Also, re: Squall, I tried the following changes to the build:

• Replace Squall with Locust
• Replace Mjolnir with Mark IX
• Add Armored Weapon Mounts

otherwise identical except different number of vents. It still beat an Ordo cleanly using just the standard deploy as many ships as you can and issue a full assault order, no further player input.

Very cool!

Thing is, pretty much every ship that can equip a Squall also has a way to do good anti-armor and anti-hull damage:

...

For example, looking at the fleet I'm currently testing, flagship Onslaught XIV with Atlas2's with dual Squalls, dual Mjolnirs, and dual Railguns with BRF. Against double Ordos, the Squalls only do around 25-30% of the armor and hull damage, with Mjolnirs contributing around 60-65%, and Railguns around 10%. The change will mean that the Squalls will do around 30% of its current damage to armor and hull. So a "naive" estimate is that the ship loses 20% of its anti-armor and anti-hull DPS. But in reality the Mjolnirs will end up doing more of the anti-armor and anti-hull damage, so the actual effect will be less than this. Since anti-armor and anti-hull make up less than 40% of the DPS, this means that this build will lose roughly 7% of its overall DPS. So it'll affect it somewhat, but not much.

I get what you're saying, yeah. It makes sense. A couple of thoughts:

1) Yes, other sources of anti-armor damage will pick up the slack, but this will put more overall strain on Squall ammo and while the slack will be picked up in total numbers, it will take longer to do so and place the Squall-using ships into more sustained fights at a range where both sides can fire at each other.

2) It will really take a bite out of the "enemy ship is backing off - or couldn't even close in before being driven off due to flux level - and takes considerable, risk-free chip damage from the Squalls" scenario.

3) The Squalls have also lost their EMP damage, which is harder to quantify but might be fairly significant in terms of enemy weapon uptime.