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Author Topic: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?  (Read 2487 times)

IonDragonX

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2023, 11:33:37 AM »

It does seem like the ir-autolance will be the go-to option in those medium slots from now till the end of time
You haven't even played with the IR Autolance yet. Why make such a bold statement with no data?
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BigBrainEnergy

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2023, 11:40:28 AM »

Well, even if I haven't used the weapon I'm assuming it does the thing it's designed to do based on the blog post. You'll always have the option to put nothing there but generally the apogee doesn't need pd and it struggles to make use of offensive weapons in those slots, but it does want some kind of anti-fighter weapon.
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TL;DR deez nuts

Draba

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2023, 12:53:38 PM »

And, yeah, it's a fair point about the loadout options being fairly limited. Kind of makes me wonder about making the front small hardpoint - or just one of them, even - medium, hmm.
That would be really nice, graviton/ion are interesting support options that don't look too overpowered and the improved pulse laser would also be a decent candidate.


It does seem like the ir-autolance will be the go-to option in those medium slots from now till the end of time given they are designed to be a cheap and very specialized anti-fighter weapon which is exactly what you want when you already have flares.
Don't see why should Apogee struggle against fighters now. Cheap, extremely good shields, flares to take some heat off, lots of unused slots/flux.
PD laser spam can double dip from advanced optics on HIL, and HIL+2 tacs do a number on incoming fighters anyway.
As mentioned, IR pulses in the back are always an option and can also add ion pulsers.
(plasma in front is definitely not the only option, I think in most fleets it's outright bad compared to HIL if you aren't using SO)
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Megas

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2023, 12:55:38 PM »

Completely off the wall idea. Anyone remember SeaQuest DSV? It was a huge undersea exploration vessel that had all these little probes flying around it. For whatever reason, it inspired the thought of “make the two rear mediums detachable.” I mean, the Apogee used to have little drones that passively boosted it (range and damage?) and it would be kind of cool to see weapon pods engage when an exploration vessel has to fight. But unlike independent drones, they’re literally just floating Medium Mounts, tied to main power plant and aim to cursor. They can be disabled like any other weapon but not destroyed. Maybe they visually float a little for aesthetics but are otherwise just like any other mount.

Probably too much work but it struck me  ;D
Apogee's original system was Sensor Drones, which launched two drones that escorted Apogee.  The drones extended shot range and vision radius, and were armed with normal Ion Cannons.  When fighters stopped being ships and became weapons in 0.8, it got Active Flares instead.  Claws are the closest to Apogee's old Sensor Drones, if the Claws were not set to Engage.

Well, even if I haven't used the weapon I'm assuming it does the thing it's designed to do based on the blog post. You'll always have the option to put nothing there but generally the apogee doesn't need pd and it struggles to make use of offensive weapons in those slots, but it does want some kind of anti-fighter weapon.
I also like anti-frigate, especially early in the game before I find a proper large homing missile weapon.

Missile autoloader will at least be a new option for it since it has only 1 small missile.
And not get Expanded Missile Racks for the big mount?  I guess there is both, but Apogee does not have too much OP to spare for luxuries.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 01:03:01 PM by Megas »
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Thaago

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2023, 03:02:26 PM »

I don't really think the current apogee struggles with anti-fighter. IR pulse or even pulse lasers (though tbh I don't usually have the OP for that and downgrade - its more if I don't have expanded missiles unlocked yet or other weird situations where I find myself with 'free' OP so go full pulse laser back there) do that job and also deter flanking frigates pretty well too.

I tend to go with a HIL for the front weapon rather than Plasma Cannons - unless I'm doing a stack of Apogees and so lack ballistics in the fleet, I'm not struggling to get hard flux damage out (especially with squalls!), so the longer range and cheaper OP cost make it to me the better weapon. That frees up some OP for side IR pulses. I've experimented with putting 2 tac lasers on front, but am kind of ambivalent about them: being able to mount a graviton would be a major upgrade to my usual HIL I think.
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Megas

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2023, 03:40:18 PM »

I tend to go with a HIL for the front weapon rather than Plasma Cannons - unless I'm doing a stack of Apogees and so lack ballistics in the fleet, I'm not struggling to get hard flux damage out (especially with squalls!), so the longer range and cheaper OP cost make it to me the better weapon. That frees up some OP for side IR pulses. I've experimented with putting 2 tac lasers on front, but am kind of ambivalent about them: being able to mount a graviton would be a major upgrade to my usual HIL I think.
If I use Squalls, a heavy beam (HIL or Lance) seems to work better.  If I use Locusts or MIRVs, I probably want plasma cannon.

I have been disappointed with beams in small mounts.  It is either hard flux weapons or bust, and if I use them, I will get ePD+IPDAI on the ship for IR PL/Ion/AMB to nearly match autopulse/plasma cannon range.

Speak of AMB, seeing this in patch notes:
Quote
Integrated Point Defense AI no longer flags strike weapons as point-defense; they would not autofire at missiles anyway
I guess that means no more +200 range to AMBs if player exploits ePD+IPDAI (even if IPDAI will need an s-mod).

I have exploited ePD+IPDAI on AMBs for Ziggurat and few other ships purely for the +200 range (even if AMB never fires at missiles), and that is so nice for using AMBs.
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FooF

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2023, 04:41:34 PM »

I’m pretty sure the S-modded bonus for IPDAI is flagging all smalls for PD so if you want that Elite PD bonus, it’s still there.
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Draba

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2023, 04:42:51 PM »

I've experimented with putting 2 tac lasers on front, but am kind of ambivalent about them: being able to mount a graviton would be a major upgrade to my usual HIL I think.
I have been disappointed with beams in small mounts.  It is either hard flux weapons or bust, and if I use them, I will get ePD+IPDAI on the ship for IR PL/Ion/AMB to nearly match autopulse/plasma cannon range.
Yeah, small beams suck but if you have no other options 2 tacticals still add some chip damage once HIL broke the armor (and destroy some missiles/fighters).
Won't miss the flux too much with HIL.

A single graviton improving shield damage is an improvement, but the thing I really want to try is an ion beam.
Would help a bit with both not being to catch smaller things (engine arcs) and not being able to run away (weapons disabled = lower incoming damage).
Even autopulse+ion beam support sounds useful.
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Megas

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Re: Can we talk about the medium at the back of the Apogee?
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2023, 05:00:56 PM »

I’m pretty sure the S-modded bonus for IPDAI is flagging all smalls for PD so if you want that Elite PD bonus, it’s still there.
Yes, but the patch notes say it will not apply to Strike weapons at all, which (if AMB is a Strike weapon) I take it to mean ePD+IPDAI will no longer give +200 range to AMB next release, even if it still works for IR PL, Ion Cannon, all of the small ballistics (like Railgun) and other non-strike small weapons.

Currently, ePD+IPDAI AMB is poor-man's AMSRM for Ziggurat.

Yeah, small beams suck but if you have no other options 2 tacticals still add some chip damage once HIL broke the armor (and destroy some missiles/fighters).
It depends if I need the OP more for something else like better weapons or hullmods.  If not, it is not like I will strip tac lasers from the starter Apogee before I find something better.
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