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Author Topic: Blog Posts  (Read 340008 times)

Alchenar

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #240 on: January 07, 2012, 01:59:55 PM »

Why don't they just make the ships bigger, or bring tankers that would carry fuel to their next jump point, dump it to the fleet, and then have the tankers recharge? It seems horribly convoluted. If they can put all that armor, guns, and fighters into a workable ship, I believe it's quite possible for them to scrap most of that and just build a tanker or reactor ship for fuel. It's several days of waiting around we're talking about here.

That is of course, unless the jump drive gets prohibitively more expensive as the sizes go up or its area of displacement can only be made so big. But even then, tankers are quite possible.

Here you go:  http://www.sarna.net/wiki/JumpShip

The critical points for the Battletech universe are (incidentally, I'm not using Battletech just by chance - it's probably the main example of a developed fictional sci-fi universe where technology is in stagnation/decline):

a) Yes, you can take enough energy in a fuel cell but those things are ridiculously rare/expensive.

b) You can have docking stations at the jump points to charge up ships, but most of these have been destroyed and can't be rebuilt.  (this is a good idea to steal - it's also a handy way of distinguishing between hi-tech worlds and backwaters... and long-lost planets with forgotten caches).

c) The nature of the drive itself means that you have to charge it up slowly or it breaks.
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Pikarov

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #241 on: January 08, 2012, 02:43:38 AM »

Hi guys !

Here's my take on a technobabble explanation of the peculiar behavior of fighter support in Starfarer. Feel free to use, dissect or reject.

To summarize the behavior as I understand and saw them:
- Fighter wings have a notable purchase cost and some supply cost for maintenance
- Carriers can quickly rebuild fighters in the field to recomplete wings.
- Carriers can't repair or replace a wiped out wing or churn continuously new fighter wings even with huge supplies.

My proposal to explain this follows:

Point 1:
To explain why carriers can't build fighters continuously, the setting must not allow human crewed fighters and robotic fighters to be competitive:

Human crewed fighters could be explained easily as unsatisfying due to the impossibility to shield the crew from harm in such a little craft: Accelerations could be too intense for human, but my preferred explanation would be the impossibility to protect the crew from harm in battle: Indeed, one interesting known property of a real particle beam is that it has a nasty tendency to irradiate badly whatever is in its path (in addition to its direct energy damage). One could surmise that the crew of a fighter would  be disabled by shock, shrapnells and radiations long before the machine is heavily damaged.

Robotic crewed fighters could be too easily neutered by even basic electronic warfare.

Then almost all fighter would be "crewed" by cyborg brains in small and heavily armored casing, part machine and part living tissues, those would need to be trained like human pilot and could not be copied. Buying those would be by far the biggest contributor to the price of acquiring a new fighter wing. The fighters themselves could be easily built by carriers.

Point2:
To explain why carriers can rebuild partially destroyed wings but not complete ones. I've seen that teleporting ships could are on the development list of ship features. So if some kind of limited teleporting technology exist in-universe, this explanation could work: Each of our cyborg-brain-in-a-jar piloted fighter could include a short range one shot transporter which would be able when the fighter is destroyed to displace the armored casing to another fighter in the wing. This process would be short range, limited in capacity and possibly fatal if applied to a human.

An example of limited teletransportation capability is used in the Homeworld universe to explain how the mobile raffinery automatically and invisibly bring the ore back to the mothership.

Anyway, when one of our cyborg fighter makes it back home. Ir brings all its wingmen back in a conveniently little storage space and the carrier can easily rebuild the fighters and reform the wing. But if all cyborg brains are lost in space, then even if the carrier can build  more fighters, there is no way to crew them.


So this could be an in-universe explanation for the carrier behavior but it carries some implication on the universe technology. Do with this as you see fit.

ps: Just imagine the pilot lounge in such a carrier: rows of bains in jar on shelves exchanging completely uncomprehensible jokes while waiting for the next fight^^
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Wyvern

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #242 on: January 08, 2012, 09:59:40 AM »

(This post is totally tangential; feel free to ignore it if you aren't interested in battletech setting stuff.)
c) The nature of the drive itself means that you have to charge it up slowly or it breaks.

This was the part I found silly.  The game had rules for how to do an emergency jump recharge from the ship's reactor - which was potentially far faster than charging from solar power, but could also break your drive.  Except that, if you performed an "emergency recharge" at the same rate as solar power would have charged your jump drive... the chance of failure dropped to zero.  Which meant that the entire solar charging mechanism was superfluous.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Alchenar

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #243 on: January 08, 2012, 04:18:50 PM »

(This post is totally tangential; feel free to ignore it if you aren't interested in battletech setting stuff.)
c) The nature of the drive itself means that you have to charge it up slowly or it breaks.

This was the part I found silly.  The game had rules for how to do an emergency jump recharge from the ship's reactor - which was potentially far faster than charging from solar power, but could also break your drive.  Except that, if you performed an "emergency recharge" at the same rate as solar power would have charged your jump drive... the chance of failure dropped to zero.  Which meant that the entire solar charging mechanism was superfluous.

It means you don't have to worry about your fuel supply. 

In the grim darkness of the far future there are only renewable energy targets ;D
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Flare

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #244 on: January 08, 2012, 08:48:48 PM »

a) Yes, you can take enough energy in a fuel cell but those things are ridiculously rare/expensive.

This may be true, but it still seems that a few ships that do have batteries would provide an enourmous advantage as they can move twice as fast as any other ship. It's sheer mobility to simply by pass 50 light years of defences and monitors would translate to huge costs to an enemy that's trying to defend against these types of ships. No longer would they have to worry about securing simply 50 light years of area, but double that.

Also, batteries seem pretty simply to make. The principles involved aren't all that hard to master. The efficiency might not be up to date, but disposable batteries that are once used that can be detached like fuel tanks of fighters seem to be a very practical easy thing to do idea. Coupled with the idea below and we have a winner.

Quote
c) The nature of the drive itself means that you have to charge it up slowly or it breaks.

Have the engineers put in more than one jump drive ;D? It may be more expensive, perhaps, it might make the ship twice as expensive, but the mobility that this offers is absolutely huge. If every other ship in the galaxy can only go 50 light years before a charge, and you have a few ships that can do 100 or more, you've effectively gained a huge advantage that trumps the cost.

This problem doesn't seem to be technologically related, it seems to be a logistical one. One of which can be solved simply by using what people already have in a manner that's actually effective.
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Quote from: Thana
Quote from: Alex

The battle station is not completely operational, shall we say.

"Now witness the firepower of this thoroughly buggy and unoperational batt... Oh, hell, you know what? Just ignore the battle station, okay?"

Alchenar

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #245 on: January 09, 2012, 12:55:26 PM »


This problem doesn't seem to be technologically related, it seems to be a logistical one. One of which can be solved simply by using what people already have in a manner that's actually effective.

I don't think you 'get' diaspora settings.

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Zarcon

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #246 on: January 09, 2012, 02:03:19 PM »


This problem doesn't seem to be technologically related, it seems to be a logistical one. One of which can be solved simply by using what people already have in a manner that's actually effective.

I don't think you 'get' diaspora settings.



Oh oh, I sense a glove/gauntlet just got tossed via that one liner.  :P  If only I actually enjoyed drama, hmm.   Oh well. 

Also, Starfarer, should be a great game when it gets released right guys?   ;D
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There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #247 on: January 09, 2012, 02:52:37 PM »

...

ps: Just imagine the pilot lounge in such a carrier: rows of bains in jar on shelves exchanging completely uncomprehensible jokes while waiting for the next fight^^

I have to admit, that's a solution not lacking for creativity :)
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ollobrains

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #248 on: January 09, 2012, 08:42:57 PM »

Floating heads with implants interfacing with the main ships computer via a neuronet interface.  Perhaps a hive like race could take advantage of such a technology
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Alex

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #249 on: January 10, 2012, 02:27:09 PM »

There's technically a new blog post up. But only technically.
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Zarcon

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #250 on: January 10, 2012, 02:29:09 PM »

There's technically a new blog post up. But only technically.

I love technical blogs, so full of detailed information!   :)
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There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

Avan

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #251 on: January 10, 2012, 07:13:41 PM »

Ah hehe, hosting upgrade. Hope that goes well.

SeaBee

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #252 on: January 12, 2012, 11:12:49 AM »

Looks like we survived the hosting upgrade.  ;D

Brains in jars reminds me of Lexx.
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ollobrains

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #253 on: January 13, 2012, 04:04:57 AM »

Survival of the hosting upgrade complete brains can be reattached to body.  Remind me to take my smart pills in the morning good work on getting through it though alex
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Zarcon

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Re: Blog Posts
« Reply #254 on: January 13, 2012, 08:36:10 AM »

Hmm, for some strange reason I have a strong feeling there will be a new blog post today, odd.   :o
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There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
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