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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Codex Overhaul (05/11/24)

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Author Topic: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom  (Read 1840 times)

Jackundor

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2023, 12:31:12 AM »

I suggest when a ship is disabled it spews out escape pods/shuttles instead of exploding.
+1
Yeah, would be cool. Also let enemy ship PD target escape pods.
  +1
Space combat is rough,  when automatic systems like PD are controlled by AI, then  no mercy  could be  expected. Most crew at space  ships  are repair-man or programmers. Idea that a weapon  is directly controlled by a human  is nonsense. Even a idea that each target  have to be  approved by   human is  too slow. Future wars dont need   fighters but technicians and managers.
by that logic why do fighters need pilots and ships such big crew complements?
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SafariJohn

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2023, 03:00:40 AM »

- ships that break apart can't be recovered (with sMods, etc. preventing break apart)

Isn't that already the case with vanilla?

Just tested, made sure to break apart both enemies, both were (SP) recoverable.
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Rusty Edge

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2023, 03:41:29 AM »

Quote
Cool as it may be, I think it doesn't fits with Rugged Construction at all.

 Quick clarification, I mean that it would compliment Rugged construction well, NOT that it should come built in to any ships by default.

 Also, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Escape pods are already present in all ships by default. Regardless of technology level. And protecting your crew may have even been more of a priority during some age long past, at a time when human life had a higher value.
 The primary thing that would change is the crew's proceedure once the hull is close to being compromised. At a certain hull integrity, the crews leave their posts and head to the nearest pod.

 Narrative wise, the hullmod might add some extra escape pods to the cargo bays (captains frequently install entire fighter autoforges and launch bays in these areas already, so some modified cargo containers with limited life support and beacons shouldn't be a challenge.)
 
 At this point in development,  all it would do is reduce crew casualties, and possibly increase the odds of the ship being recoverable with no D-mods. (Enemy may or may not waste time firing on an abandoned ship, I know pirates and scavengers would try to take it intact.
 But future updates may include some system for morale, or ship crew experience, or your character's public image as a
hero or a ruthless mercenary.

 Anyhow, I would like to see an addition like this, and I'm sure there are a few other players who would.
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Bulletkin

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2023, 08:54:36 AM »

I'm personally against certain ships sort of planning for failure when they're disabled. Taking down an enemy and getting a big cloud of point-defense chaff for your trouble doesn't sound too fun. However, I definitely support the concept for a little visual flair. It's great.
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ForestFighters

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2023, 10:08:26 AM »

The value of human life, ignoring the player's view, pathers, and pirates, is at an all-time high in the sector.
The sector's population is very low, under a billion, and certainly not growing particularly fast with all that is going on.

Mindlessly gunning down escape pods for no reason other than "war crime funny" is stupid. It is a waste of time, ammo, and focus on a battlefield.
False flagging missiles and fighters as escape pods is just going to mean your pods will be indiscriminately targeted. It is a simple thing, don't do it and your pods are safe against normal opponents. It is just the same as false identifying medics IRL.

The only factions that are going to be intentionally targeting escape pods are the pathers and tri-tachyon's phase fleets.
Even pirates understand the value of a good ransom.
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gG_pilot

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2023, 12:03:14 PM »

by that logic why do fighters need pilots and ships such big crew complements?
  Good  question. Large crew volume in ships is most probably a mistake. Overlook. fix is easy, slash numbers by 3 and rise salary by 3.
 Pilots  in Fighters are a sort of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica or SarWars  meme. e.i.  popular sci-fi born in 70" when author  could imagine  a  humanoid walking and talking robot, but  can not imagine that robot  is also better at piloting  and shooting. I think,  only low performance fighters  can afford humans inside. High  performance fighter can do manoeuvres  which  human body can not  survive.  Even Formula 1 racing very quickly find  out ( back in 80'')that pilots  fade out due to  high G. Therefore  they have forbid certain technical constructions which allowed such moves.

When  you design  perfect space fighter it would look  like a ball with 3-5 engines evenly spread on the surface. This  will grant  best manoeuvrability and best thermal efficient shape. Well, popular [redacted]  doritos  looks   like prefect space fighters,  assuming those spikes are engines.  ;)

Humans in space ship are expensive. Not  because of "human value" (whatever it means) but because of life  support equipment.  People are  squishy and need lot of cubic meters empty space.

Disabled  but compact  ships  on battlefield bring a new challenge for game AI. How to avoid it. Current AI just  ignore  debris and waste  rockets or fux to shoot on them. I guess, that main problem for Mr. Alex is, how to adapt AI to avoid  disabled ships floating acroos battle.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 12:27:33 PM by gG_pilot »
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Amazigh

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2023, 12:36:31 PM »

Personally, i think just as a visual effect, it would be neat.
Just some non-interactable pods that get fired out of the ship, and linger on the battlefield for a while before fading out. No need to have them collidable/targetable, that wouldn't really fit the theming of the game, if you read the writing/interactions in the game the player is not depicted some bloodthirsty maniac after all.

Quantity of pod could vary based on the ships crew count, and how many crew would survive the ships loss, could even have it so the ship always fires its maximum number of escape pods, (explained away as them automatically launching as the ship explodes) but only the ones that'd have surviving crew have a little flashing light / light up window on them, might be a neat little detail.

Could even have different pod graphics depending on the hullstyle of the ship, to add some extra visual flair to them.


The only thing that could be deemed a problem with this, is it'd add "clutter" to the battlefield, and having lots of little pods scattered around could make it harder to "read" what is going on in combat.
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Rusty Edge

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2023, 12:59:28 PM »

Quote
Disabled  but compact  ships  on battlefield bring a new challenge for game AI. How to avoid it. Current AI just  ignore  debris and waste  rockets or fux to shoot on them. I guess, that main problem for Mr. Alex is, how to adapt AI to avoid  disabled ships floating acroos battle.

 Mechanically, abandoned ships could just be "disabled" like any other disabled ship in the base game. And the hullmod may increase the same variables as Reinforced bulkheads or Rugged construction.
 Alternatively, the abandoned ship could get the "mothballed" state at 5% to 10% hull. I think Ai still shoots down mothballed ships, but this wouldn't really matter.
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gG_pilot

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2023, 07:49:14 PM »

The only factions that are going to be intentionally targeting escape pods are the pathers and tri-tachyon's phase fleets.
Even pirates understand the value of a good ransom.
Did you ever asked, where are "Harvested Organs" came from ?
https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Harvested_Organs
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 07:56:21 PM by gG_pilot »
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2023, 08:39:34 PM »

I see zero reason for this to be anything but purely aesthetical as it adds  nothing to the table if you ask me.
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Jackundor

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2023, 10:11:17 PM »

by that logic why do fighters need pilots and ships such big crew complements?
  Good  question. Large crew volume in ships is most probably a mistake. Overlook. fix is easy, slash numbers by 3 and rise salary by 3.
bruh.
just no.
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Ontheheavens

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2023, 10:23:38 PM »

Good  question. Large crew volume in ships is most probably a mistake. Overlook. fix is easy, slash numbers by 3 and rise salary by 3.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. What are the chances Alex and David were blatantly shortsighted to such a degree so as to not think about basic assumptions of their setting?

What you think to be a mistake is a conscious design decision based on their general idea of Starsector as something like "WW2 naval warfare in space" (read their blog). That's also why there are Heavy Machine Guns and Flak Cannons on the spaceships.

When  you design  perfect space fighter it would look  like a ball with 3-5 engines evenly spread on the surface. This  will grant  best manoeuvrability and best thermal efficient shape. Well, popular [redacted]  doritos  looks   like prefect space fighters,  assuming those spikes are engines.  ;)

Humans in space ship are expensive. Not  because of "human value" (whatever it means) but because of life  support equipment.  People are  squishy and need lot of cubic meters empty space.

This is not a Children of a Dead Earth.
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Jackundor

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2023, 05:07:17 AM »

Disabled  but compact  ships  on battlefield bring a new challenge for game AI. How to avoid it. Current AI just  ignore  debris and waste  rockets or fux to shoot on them. I guess, that main problem for Mr. Alex is, how to adapt AI to avoid  disabled ships floating acroos battle.
disabled but intact ships are in the game rn.............. also yes, AI doesn't shoot at them because why wouldn't it?
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Jackundor

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2023, 05:09:13 AM »

Disabled  but compact  ships  on battlefield bring a new challenge for game AI. How to avoid it. Current AI just  ignore  debris and waste  rockets or fux to shoot on them. I guess, that main problem for Mr. Alex is, how to adapt AI to avoid  disabled ships floating acroos battle.
also, disabled but intact ships are in the game rn... and yes, AI doesn't shoot at them because why would it?
oops, i wanted to revise the wording of my other post a bit but quoted it accidentally
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 07:21:25 AM by Jackundor »
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ForestFighters

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Re: Disabled Ship = Escape Pods, not Boom
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2023, 02:32:03 PM »

Yeah, lets keep in mind the basic assumptions of Starsector's setting.
Otherwise you get to the question of "why isn't every weapon a nuke in some way?"

As for my take on the central topic, escape pods should be an almost entirely visual effect, and maybe some post-battle events could pop up every once and a while.
They are non-combatants with no way of escaping. Unlike a logi ship that might be able to flee, they are entirely dependent on the outcome of the battle.
Adding them as targetable, in-battle effects would cause some AI-related shenaniganry and would also begin to do the awkward thing of there inevitably being a war crime metagame.
That is stupid and is just going to attract a bad sort of crowd, while doing little else.
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