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Author Topic: Ability to "bench" officers  (Read 1541 times)

BCS

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Ability to "bench" officers
« on: August 18, 2022, 11:59:19 PM »

I wrote a big wall of text about how "unfair" Remnant are and how they heavily push the player into making specific fleet comps but then I realized what my real problem with it was: said specific fleet comps require specific officers to work and unlike ships, officers cannot be simply put in and out of storage. If I have a set of officers trained to fly small, short range energy weapon based ships then I am condemned to forever fly fleets of small, short range energy weapon ships. If I suddenly get the urge to field 6 Shield Shunt Onslaughts just for laughs then I either have to accept that my officers are completely unfit for the job or fire all of them, hire new ones and retrain them from scratch. Then if I want to make a fleet of Champions I have to fire and retrain all my officers again, etc.

tl;dr: make officers work like colony Administrators - you can have as many of them as you want and as long as they're not "employed" they're paid 10% of their normal wage(mercenary officers are still limited by their yearly contract even when not commanding a ship)
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Vanshilar

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2022, 12:40:00 AM »

I was just going to post a similar suggestion. There should be a way to store officers that are currently unneeded, similar to ships.

Right now when you get an officer you have to either keep it forever -- thereby taking up one of your officer slots, increasing your upkeep, counting against your XP bonus, etc. -- or lose it forever. But in the same way that you might want to use different ships for different situations, you might want different officers (with different skills) for different situations as well. I don't necessarily want to give up an officer that I've invested in, but I don't necessarily need the guy around all the time either.

The code specifically looks for officers that aren't assigned to ships for the XP bonus, and I can understand not wanting the player to take advantage of this (i.e. letting officers out of ships for easy fights to artificially increase the XP bonus). But storing officers is different; it's about when you don't need the officer for the duration of the expedition, as opposed to on a fight-to-fight basis. Thus it's the same rationale as putting ships in storage. For example, if I switch my fleet over from a combat fleet to an exploration fleet, right now I have to carry around a bunch of useless officers (with them costing me upkeep) the entire way, or get rid of them thus losing them permanently. Or if I need to fight drastically different targets (for example, the fleet I need for bounties may look very different than the fleet I need versus stations, and thus different officers are also needed), I have to decide between officers which are "sort of good" at either, or specialize against one type but not against another, etc. Or if I get one of the rare level 7 officers while I'm exploring, I have to make a decision to keep it (and have it increase my upkeep etc. even if I may not need it for a long time) or get rid of it permanently. It would be better to have different types of officers on call for the different needs the player has throughout the game.

The coding infrastructure should be mostly there already as well, so it would just involve relatively minor changes. What I propose is that on the player's colonies, the player can relieve officers and leave them at the colony, whether that means no more upkeep or only a minor upkeep (like 10% of the usual amount). Code-wise, they get removed from the fleet and then become like the officers that you can hire at the comm directory, except that they don't expire. So I think this would be relatively easy to code in. This gives the player's colonies a tangible benefit (being able to store officers) beyond other faction colonies or the abandoned spacedocks, a sense that the colony is "mine", as another reason to make a colony.

(Yes, I think this also implies that if your colony destabilizes and dies, you lose the officers that you had stored there. Too bad, you let it burn instead of keeping it alive.)

As a corollary to this, if you dismiss officers that you no longer need, you should regain the SP points used on those officers (mentor, elite skills) as bonus XP. This is similar in rationale to getting the XP back from getting rid of ships with s-mods.
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Draba

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2022, 03:34:54 AM »

tl;dr: make officers work like colony Administrators - you can have as many of them as you want and as long as they're not "employed" they're paid 10% of their normal wage(mercenary officers are still limited by their yearly contract even when not commanding a ship)
Would gladly pay even 100% (200, 300, ...) for the ability to switch without needing another save.
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gG_pilot

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2022, 05:29:02 AM »

Piloting an airplain or drive a car is skill which can deteriorate. I can safely say, piloting spaceship would work same.
Add Option  to park/bench a pilot means he dont fly. Although it is possible invent a system for lowering xp, it is quite bold idea, and I think majority of customers(players) will  not accept it.
 
I see two doable solutions to problem:
- introduce a freezer
Some sort of carbonite. https://www.starwars.com/databank/carbon-freezing
When you freeze a pilot all skills are preserved. Perhaps you pay less for salary but freezer cost  makes it even. So no saving here, sorry. Perhaps when you find first SleeperShip it turns into a quest. So you recover the tech. Since then, you can freeze a pilot in The Academy, Your own planet (need to build a non-industrial building). You can also sell the tech to subscribed faction, in this case you can use/rent freezer  for a  fee.
- introduce endless levels of NPC pilots
Same as main character, NPC pilots gets XP and level up endlessly, difference is, on the next level above max, pilot can swap a skill. e.i. instead of add a new skill, experienced pilot can swap his skill for other skill. It means your pilots are evolving all the time. "Swap points" are stored, same as story points. Each pilot has own pool of swap points. So in theory, a pilot can level up, save enough swap points then retrofit him from large shield less ship to a Frigate shark in one go.
 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 06:01:06 AM by gG_pilot »
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Schwartz

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2022, 07:06:46 AM »

The downside to this idea is that having a hard limit for officers, officer level & their elite skills requires the player to make choices. By being able to store officers, all of these choices (not just which officers to keep) get reduced in importance to basically nothing. That's gonna be a net loss in game decisions.

The ability could be an "easy mode" option to be toggled at the start of the game. Maybe it'd work by putting officers in storage on friendly planets at a reduced monthly cost, so they can't be hotswapped.
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robepriority

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2022, 07:29:11 AM »

Or maybe have it work like the contact system, where it takes SP to bench.

Megas

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2022, 09:40:09 AM »

I do not like officers as implemented because it takes too long to level them up.

If benching will not be an option, then either xp gain should be much higher for new officers (so that player can level up eight officers in no more than an hour), or officer skills can be fully reassigned like the player.  I probably would prefer skill reassignment.  It does not need to be as easy as AI cores, but it should be an option in some form.  (Maybe it can be as easy as cores, except it costs a story point per skill changed, with +100% xp, just like behavior change.)

Currently, if I need new officers for new ships, it takes me days to level up eight new officers to replace the old ones that became obsolete after I changed my fleet.  Similarly, I do not elite skills on officers because losing story points permanently from firing officers feels very bad.  (I will do test runs with few elite officers, play a fight, then reload because I do not want to lock in elite skills on officers that WILL BE FIRED EVENTUALLY when I change my fleet.)

It is no good that it is easier to change ships than officers.

If I have a set of officers trained to fly small, short range energy weapon based ships then I am condemned to forever fly fleets of small, short range energy weapon ships. If I suddenly get the urge to field 6 Shield Shunt Onslaughts just for laughs then I either have to accept that my officers are completely unfit for the job or fire all of them, hire new ones and retrain them from scratch. Then if I want to make a fleet of Champions I have to fire and retrain all my officers again, etc.
THIS!  So very much this.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 09:48:56 AM by Megas »
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BCS

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2022, 10:17:37 AM »

The downside to this idea is that having a hard limit for officers, officer level & their elite skills requires the player to make choices. By being able to store officers, all of these choices (not just which officers to keep) get reduced in importance to basically nothing. That's gonna be a net loss in game decisions.

Er, I fail to see how. Right now I'm already not exactly making choices - I run around stations hitting up Comms trying to find officers with personality/skills I want and ignoring the rest. When I find an officer that fits my criteria I put them on mentor(which is 100% SP refundable) and in a ship. If the skill selection on level up screws me over and doesn't give me exactly what I want I simply fire the officer and start again from level 1 or 2. There is no real choices or "rolling with the punches" here so to speak, the player is in control of the entire process.

The only exception to this is the four guaranteed level 7 officers you can get from exploration but even here the storage would likely work in their favour since right now when I find one and they don't fit my criteria(and because they roll 7 skills out of 14 their chance to fit my criteria is basically zero) then I just toss them. If I could store them for later then sure, once I reach the endgame I could see myself eventually finding ships or even fleet compositions tailored just for their particular skillset; but since I cannot do that when I find them... well, I am not going to keep an officer that doesn't fit my exploration fleet for the next 10-20 cycles that exploration will take me. Even if they're level 7.
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Schwartz

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2022, 10:31:49 AM »

You have to plan ahead for what you want, and it goes both ways. Planning to get the right ships for certain officer builds, planning to build a certain way to fit ships or styles. Also decide to retain officers which work for a certain ship / style, or take a temporary power hit to train new ones for bigger and better ships. Management decisions around acceptable loss vs. dividends. With officer warehousing you just build whatever, keep everything and there's fewer downsides to a lack of foresight.
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Great Wound

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2022, 11:29:16 AM »

You have to plan ahead for what you want, and it goes both ways. Planning to get the right ships for certain officer builds, planning to build a certain way to fit ships or styles. Also decide to retain officers which work for a certain ship / style, or take a temporary power hit to train new ones for bigger and better ships. Management decisions around acceptable loss vs. dividends. With officer warehousing you just build whatever, keep everything and there's fewer downsides to a lack of foresight.

Fundamentally there is no difference between storing ships and storing officers. Giving them a monthly stipend while putting them on shore leave is the same as renting out storage.

We should also tighten up on ship storage and at the very least remove the free options. That way officers and ships are on somewhat even footing.

SCC

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2022, 11:32:42 AM »

I wouldn't mind if player character levels gave you a bonus to all hired officers' XP, so that at level 15 you would start with level 4 officers or something, to make swapping them easier.

Megas

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2022, 11:59:35 AM »

Fundamentally there is no difference between storing ships and storing officers. Giving them a monthly stipend while putting them on shore leave is the same as renting out storage.

We should also tighten up on ship storage and at the very least remove the free options. That way officers and ships are on somewhat even footing.
Early game, I use the abandoned stations for storage.  Later, I use my colonies.

I can see doing something about abandoned stations (have a janitor monster clean out stations), but colonies should be free since player already pays colony upkeep.
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Oni

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Re: Ability to "bench" officers
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2022, 01:06:37 PM »

Have you tried the 'Officer Extension' mod?

It allows you to suspend extra officers at a fraction of their normal salaries...
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