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Author Topic: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)  (Read 7074 times)

temporal45678

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2022, 08:17:54 AM »

2 replies in a row and I see comments how the Eradicator feels slow and that fighters are currently king. Ahh feels like I'm back on Reddit again.

Of the serious replies, I'm not sure if you could nerf the armour and not cripple the ship, Eradicator is really not tanky for low tech (yes I know it's fast). With every passing moment, I think the 1.1 shield nerf feels like the most logical POTENTIAL nerf.

could you elaborate on that? i'd like to hear your opinion why frigates are not king, i've had a lot of success with them in my fleet comp
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Thaago

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2022, 09:50:36 AM »

I'll elite ordinance expertise, though not always as my first choice. More capacity is excellent too.
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Grievous69

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2022, 10:33:38 AM »

@FooF
I love you man  :-*

@Alex
20 DP for Eagle seems good. Also woooow 3 interesting threads in 3 days, I'm on a roll babyy  ;D

Pirate Eradicator is just right at 17 DP, played with those for a while as well.

@temporal45678
You said fighters before so I'm confused now. Are we talking about small craft launched from carriers or smallest pilotable ships?

@Thaago
Same, who doesn't like extra flux stats ya know.
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Megas

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2022, 10:33:57 AM »

High-tech ships also don't have weapon mounts and OP to take advantage of Ordinance Expertise. And the flat bonus ends up a lot less significant for them since their weapons are balanced around premium flux stats to begin with. Eradicator gets ~180 bonus dissipation (+45%) with an average build. That's an entire medium ballistic weapon. Fury gets ~100 bonus dissipation (+16%), which is less than one IR pulse laser.
Now, high-tech ships arguably benefit more from the elite part of the skill, thanks to the higher shield efficiency, but nobody really elites Ordinance Expertise unless it's a cryopod level 7 or something. And slightly better shield is a lot less valuable than an entire extra weapon.
They still benefit from it.  It can mean the difference of supporting it weapons or not.  Fury is one of those that probably does not need it much given its mounts (probably one blaster and two missiles).  I want it on high-tech ships that have a very hard time supporting a heavy blaster (or pulse laser in case of Wolf) even with max vents and other flux related hullmods.

Aside, it is very good on Ziggurat when I need to skimp on flux stats to fit all of the hullmods and fancy weapons, especially when Omega weapons get involved.

As far as elite goes, the player gets it, as do any automated ship with the skill.  In case of Brilliant, the extra dissipation meant the difference between comfortably supporting HIL (plus autocannons and others) or not.

I generally do not give Ordnance Expertise on most of my officers because it is ranked sixth on my list and I can only take five.  It definitely goes on any Remnant ship with an alpha core, though.  I do give every officer Gunnery Implants unless I know for sure they will be stuck on a Gryphon (then I get the missile skills instead).
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smithney

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2022, 11:37:28 AM »

..., but to be honest I haven't thought too much about it.
Please don't ^^ Pirates being terribly right twice a day with the pile of broken designs they field is hilariously flavorful and entertainingly deadly.
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FooF

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2022, 12:41:59 PM »

@Grievous69

 ;D

I forgot the Pirate version was 17 DP. I couldn’t remember if it was 20 because “pirates can’t have nice things” even though I consider it clearly inferior to the standard version. It’s fine at 17 DP, IMO.
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Thaago

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2022, 12:46:47 PM »

I don't really want to change anything about the Eradicator - its fun and can successfully wade in and eradicate things with its guns and missiles, or act as an upgraded ballistic artillery over the Hammerhead. Its just a bit strong! A 2dp bump sounds good to me. The pirate one is fun to SO as burn drive + SO + reckless makes for entertaining adventures (if not particularly survivable ones!).
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Tadas

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2022, 01:23:40 PM »

Eradicator - its fun and can successfully wade in and eradicate things with its guns and missiles

Does what it says on the tin   ;D
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Megas

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2022, 07:28:27 AM »

Pirate Eradicator is just right at 17 DP, played with those for a while as well.
It is now, but would it if standard Eradicator gets the boost to 22 DP?  Probably ought to boost the pirate one to 18 DP if standard gets 22 DP.
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FooF

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2022, 07:49:28 AM »

Pirate Eradicator is just right at 17 DP, played with those for a while as well.
It is now, but would it if standard Eradicator gets the boost to 22 DP?  Probably ought to boost the pirate one to 18 DP if standard gets 22 DP.

Without AAF, the pirate version really isn’t a huge threat. It can pursue with Burn Drive but it’s not nearly as efficient nor can it punch up. It’s a good bully against Destroyers, and legit better than a Falcon, but I don’t think it needs any change in DP. Or should I say, just because the standard gets bumped up doesn’t necessarily mean the pirate one needs to. There was a 3 DP gap before, now there’s 5. 1 DP either way doesn’t really matter to me: we’re just splitting hairs.
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Megas

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2022, 08:09:44 AM »

Quote
Without AAF, the pirate version really isn’t a huge threat. It can pursue with Burn Drive but it’s not nearly as efficient nor can it punch up.
The only difference between the two are the ship systems.  Eradicator can punch fairly hard without AAF.  It just does not have as much armor and as many missiles as Dominator.

If I want to spend DP and officers on Eradicators, then... at 22 DP, I can use four standard Eradicators for 88 DP.  At 17 DP, I can use five pirate Eradicators for 85 DP.
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Grievous69

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2022, 08:15:04 AM »

Eradicator can punch fairly hard without AAF.
Not really, when you take out AAF you're really only left with mediocre mounts, small missiles are the saving grace of the pirate version. It would be the same as taking out AAF from Hammerhead, immediately a much worse ship.
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Megas

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2022, 09:03:48 AM »

Not really, when you take out AAF you're really only left with mediocre mounts, small missiles are the saving grace of the pirate version. It would be the same as taking out AAF from Hammerhead, immediately a much worse ship.
Six to seven mounts (most are turrets) full of elite ballistics that can all be focused on target is quite good (better than what some cruisers get), although it needs range boosters from Rangefinder or ePD+IPDAI to make the small mounts count.  Unskilled, it can kill a bit more than its DP in weight against similarly (un)skilled opponents.

Currently at 17, pirate is 85% of standard's 20 in DP cost.  If pirate stays at 17 and standard goes to 22, it is 77%.  If pirate only goes to 18, it is about 82%.  At 19, it is about 86%.
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Grievous69

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2022, 09:18:30 AM »

Yes I too learned percentages in school. But I honestly couldn't care less if it was bumped to 18 DP. It's just "why?".
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Megas

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Re: How would you go about nerfing Eradicator (if needed)
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2022, 09:58:11 AM »

Yes I too learned percentages in school. But I honestly couldn't care less if it was bumped to 18 DP. It's just "why?".
Same reason as standard Eradicator.
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