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Author Topic: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4  (Read 282621 times)

Liral

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.23.4
« Reply #720 on: May 30, 2023, 01:53:03 PM »

Ahh, I see, I misread the description sorry about that! Understanding that now, did you feel like those vanilla skills were too strong hence the nerf? Looking missile specialization, we're going from: double missile ammo, 50% increased missile hitpoints, 50% ROF and 10% damage (with Elite), to just +10% CR which likely requires also investing in EWM and/or ballistic.

I changed them for functionality and theme, but perhaps they are not strong enough now.  Realistic Combat replaces the Starsector damage model, obviating the damage-modification effects of those vanilla skills.  Also, I want skills to be more like what the officer has learned and less like hullmods; therefore, I removed such equipment-modifying features as increasing missile hitpoints or ammunition capacity.  I wonder what other effects I could give these skills to make them more attractive.

Also, I am considering changing Combat Readiness from a stat that magically starts at 70% and which you can increase for buffs to one that you must increase from 50% to 100% in order to use a ship at its full potential, but no more than that.  Combat Readiness would reflect how crew training, discipline, and morale alongside complete supply and maintenance schedules minimize errors, delays, and mistakes to leave only the limitations of the ship itself.  The same would go for enemies, too, of course.  CR would become more important and have more room for improvement.

I had a similiar issue on the latest version (1.24.3), where only missile/torpedo weapons fired normally. The others fired only when button is down and switched to. It worked fine in 1.23.4.

1.24.3: button is pressed down all the time, non-missile weapons only fire when switched to from other weapons and don't act normally. some alternating weapon groups do alternate between the weapons, but do not fire. Autopilot seemed to work/fire normally, i'm not sure if autofire weapon groups fired normally.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113175239698944171/2023-05-30_21-33-39-1.mp4

1.23.4: seemingly normal, all same mods (nexerelin + factions, some utility and others) and same save/ship/loadout
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113178201624162385/124.mp4 (it's 1.23, bad filename)

e: 0.96a-RC10

e2: I tested 1.24.2 and 1.24.1 and the weapons work fine on 1.24.1, but 1.24.2 also had the weapon problem.

I want clicking left mouse not to fire the selected weapon group unless the player aims within the leading circle, even if the weapon group is set to autofire.  Is that what is happening?  If so, I should have mentioned the change, and I apologize.

xZarif

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #721 on: May 30, 2023, 03:10:24 PM »

Gotcha, the fact that the damage modifiers were ignored by RC anyway makes more sense then. I agree the skills shouldn't necessarily alter things a hullmod would. I'd be willing to brainstorm some ideas after I play around with the new skills and I like where you're going with the CR thinking.

For now, I just have one ask. Can you take a look at the High Intensity Laser? As a few others have mentioned, it outperforms basically every other weapon. Try simulating a paragon with plasma/tachyon against something like an onslaught or para, then swap those weapons out for HILs. You'll see how strong they are - like melting the enemy in a fraction of the time strong. Maybe it's a combination of range, DPS, and 150% damage to both shields and ships that turns them into death beams. Before, you mentioned changing the OP cost to reflect their strength but honestly the HILs would beat plasmas even at 30+OP. I feel cheaty using them at all. As always, thanks for your great mod and hard work.
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jaaakb

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #722 on: May 30, 2023, 03:48:49 PM »

uh, an idea for beams. love the mod, doesn't feel good to play without it anymore.

Beams could interact with armor differendly, they don't really penetrate as much as they burn through armor - any beam could penetrate if you point in the same place long enough.

You can aim with beams quite freely, so it's plausible you could hit one place of compromised armor for a long time (if the beam also hits the same spot on the ship). You'd keep track of the worst area of compromised armor in a area, and assume all beams hit there for beam dmg/armor strip. Other weapons penetrate as they already did, and possibly create holes, that beams could go through without burning?

Maybe lower/any damage weapons could penetrate via smaller areas of compromised armor when the ship's engines are disabled or you are point blank/super fast projectiles vs enemy manouver.

tldr keep track of armor rating like in vanilla, but it'd keep track of biggest hole in armor and beams would always try to burn/hit there. penetrating hits chunk armor like a beam would have burned it in that angle, beams burn it slowly. beams do not penetrate if armor is not compromised in the area.

bad illustration
Spoiler
numbers just tossed there, 75% armor for half way burn thru, 50% for straight angle penetration (either burned or penetrating hit stripped it`?), lower percentage armor means wider hole/penetrated from a smaller/steeper angle.
[close]

I had a similiar issue on the latest version (1.24.3), where only missile/torpedo weapons fired normally. The others fired only when button is down and switched to. It worked fine in 1.23.4.

1.24.3: button is pressed down all the time, non-missile weapons only fire when switched to from other weapons and don't act normally. some alternating weapon groups do alternate between the weapons, but do not fire. Autopilot seemed to work/fire normally, i'm not sure if autofire weapon groups fired normally.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113175239698944171/2023-05-30_21-33-39-1.mp4

1.23.4: seemingly normal, all same mods (nexerelin + factions, some utility and others) and same save/ship/loadout
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/967787932209524748/1113178201624162385/124.mp4 (it's 1.23, bad filename)

e: 0.96a-RC10

e2: I tested 1.24.2 and 1.24.1 and the weapons work fine on 1.24.1, but 1.24.2 also had the weapon problem.

I want clicking left mouse not to fire the selected weapon group unless the player aims within the leading circle, even if the weapon group is set to autofire.  Is that what is happening?  If so, I should have mentioned the change, and I apologize.

There's something weird happening when switching weapons with button pressed (shoot full auto with a slow firing weapon). The first video 00:14. I tested it with no other mods, only realistic combat and weapons will shoot a burst if switched to with button pressed, regardless of the weapon being able to shoot that fast normally. It can fill your flux fully.

e: from some testing, switching to same group firest the weapon once, switching to another group firest that group in a burst regardless of firerate.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2023, 04:28:41 PM by jaaakb »
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dowdpride

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #723 on: May 30, 2023, 07:34:01 PM »

I downloaded the new update and the ranges are all fixed, but for some reason many weapons still don't shoot when I left click. I keep testing with the Hypervelocity drivers and nothing happens, although the range is now what it should be again.
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Liral

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #724 on: May 31, 2023, 06:45:08 AM »

Gotcha, the fact that the damage modifiers were ignored by RC anyway makes more sense then. I agree the skills shouldn't necessarily alter things a hullmod would. I'd be willing to brainstorm some ideas after I play around with the new skills and I like where you're going with the CR thinking.

I would love to hear what you have in mind.

Quote
For now, I just have one ask. Can you take a look at the High Intensity Laser? As a few others have mentioned, it outperforms basically every other weapon. Try simulating a paragon with plasma/tachyon against something like an onslaught or para, then swap those weapons out for HILs. You'll see how strong they are - like melting the enemy in a fraction of the time strong. Maybe it's a combination of range, DPS, and 150% damage to both shields and ships that turns them into death beams. Before, you mentioned changing the OP cost to reflect their strength but honestly the HILs would beat plasmas even at 30+OP. I feel cheaty using them at all. As always, thanks for your great mod and hard work.

I may have to add weapon_data.csv for the vanilla weapons.

uh, an idea for beams. love the mod, doesn't feel good to play without it anymore.

Beams could interact with armor differendly, they don't really penetrate as much as they burn through armor - any beam could penetrate if you point in the same place long enough.

You can aim with beams quite freely, so it's plausible you could hit one place of compromised armor for a long time (if the beam also hits the same spot on the ship). You'd keep track of the worst area of compromised armor in a area, and assume all beams hit there for beam dmg/armor strip. Other weapons penetrate as they already did, and possibly create holes, that beams could go through without burning?

Maybe lower/any damage weapons could penetrate via smaller areas of compromised armor when the ship's engines are disabled or you are point blank/super fast projectiles vs enemy manouver.

tldr keep track of armor rating like in vanilla, but it'd keep track of biggest hole in armor and beams would always try to burn/hit there. penetrating hits chunk armor like a beam would have burned it in that angle, beams burn it slowly. beams do not penetrate if armor is not compromised in the area.

bad illustration
Spoiler
numbers just tossed there, 75% armor for half way burn thru, 50% for straight angle penetration (either burned or penetrating hit stripped it`?), lower percentage armor means wider hole/penetrated from a smaller/steeper angle.
[close]

Ships are big whereas beams are tiny.  Exploiting a hole burnt through thick armor with a beam would require aligning fire with the hole: projectile fire would unlikely even hit the same spot, and a beam would unlikely be aligned. 

Quote
There's something weird happening when switching weapons with button pressed (shoot full auto with a slow firing weapon). The first video 00:14. I tested it with no other mods, only realistic combat and weapons will shoot a burst if switched to with button pressed, regardless of the weapon being able to shoot that fast normally. It can fill your flux fully.

e: from some testing, switching to same group firest the weapon once, switching to another group firest that group in a burst regardless of firerate.

Yeah, I need to fix that bug.

I downloaded the new update and the ranges are all fixed, but for some reason many weapons still don't shoot when I left click. I keep testing with the Hypervelocity drivers and nothing happens, although the range is now what it should be again.

Did you pick a target and then aim in the circle?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2023, 09:57:18 AM by Liral »
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dowdpride

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #725 on: May 31, 2023, 07:11:40 AM »

Okay so I had been locking on, and after only clicking on the aiming lead it did fire a few times, but it is hard to tell when its able to fire. The cooldown bar never fully empties, so I'm not sure when the weapons are actually ready, and the weapons would only fire when the enemy got within 2/3 of the max range on the meter. If its based on clicking where the aim lead is, is it possible to increase the size of it? Since I play very zoomed out due to the increased engagement range with the mod, it is very hard to see.
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Liral

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #726 on: May 31, 2023, 10:01:39 AM »

Okay so I had been locking on, and after only clicking on the aiming lead it did fire a few times, but it is hard to tell when its able to fire. The cooldown bar never fully empties, so I'm not sure when the weapons are actually ready, and the weapons would only fire when the enemy got within 2/3 of the max range on the meter. If its based on clicking where the aim lead is, is it possible to increase the size of it? Since I play very zoomed out due to the increased engagement range with the mod, it is very hard to see.

Yes, I had been thinking about this.  I easily could, at higher zoom, make the indicator stand out more  and put crosshairs around it; however, the circle itself must remain the same size.  Beyond that, I would have to mess with the mouse.

dowdpride

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #727 on: May 31, 2023, 11:22:27 AM »

I can't figure out how to add a picture, but the big issue is that the weapons aren't fully cooling down? I haven't had this issue ever before using RC so I don't really know what the conflict is, eg., I can't even just dumb fire. I just spam click and nothing happens, even some of the weapons on autofire don't do anything. When I switch to them the cooldown is either stuck at half full, or it ticks down to almost ready to fire then ticks up again even though it hasn't shot.
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Liral

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #728 on: May 31, 2023, 11:24:35 AM »

I can't figure out how to add a picture, but the big issue is that the weapons aren't fully cooling down? I haven't had this issue ever before using RC so I don't really know what the conflict is, eg., I can't even just dumb fire. I just spam click and nothing happens, even some of the weapons on autofire don't do anything. When I switch to them the cooldown is either stuck at half full, or it ticks down to almost ready to fire then ticks up again even though it hasn't shot.

That's by design to keep you from firing unless you're on target.  Select a target, hold down the fire button, and mouse over the red circle.

robocat651

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #729 on: May 31, 2023, 12:00:33 PM »

The latest update is working great for me now, thank you for the effort!

On another note, I've observed this mod made battles pretty beam-heavy and kinetic weapons are really feeling unnecessary. Most fighting are done by those 11000 range beams weapons with near perfect accuracy.

I'd love to see more kinetic weapon relevancy and physics thrown in - like they can have massive range and damage (as a hunk of metal flying through space should), but held in check by heavy recoil and the fact that they can potentiall miss the target due to travel time, and maybe reloading speed depending on the size of the gun. Hypervelocity and Gauss cannons used to be so sought after but now they're kinda meh.

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Liral

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #730 on: May 31, 2023, 03:46:59 PM »

The latest update is working great for me now, thank you for the effort!

Awwwwwww, thanks!  You're welcome!

Quote
On another note, I've observed this mod made battles pretty beam-heavy and kinetic weapons are really feeling unnecessary. Most fighting are done by those 11000 range beams weapons with near perfect accuracy.

Everything is configurable in settings/weaponSpecs.json: would you please try different beam weapon numbers, see how balanced you find them, and then post the numbers to the forums?

Quote
I'd love to see more kinetic weapon relevancy and physics thrown in - like they can have massive range and damage (as a hunk of metal flying through space should), but held in check by heavy recoil and the fact that they can potentiall miss the target due to travel time, and maybe reloading speed depending on the size of the gun. Hypervelocity and Gauss cannons used to be so sought after but now they're kinda meh.

Ballistic and energy weapons have greater damage range because they do not diffract, unlike beams, and have greater damage because they can cause critical malfunctions on citadel penetration.  They are held back because of potentially missing the target due to travel time—hence ThreeDimensionalTargeting!  Again, please try some different beam numbers.  I want to see what players find best.

Liral

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #731 on: May 31, 2023, 03:50:58 PM »

Version 1.25.0 is out! Added a blinking crosshair to highlight the leading circle.  Leading circle and crosshair turn red when player is on target.

lucy

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #732 on: June 02, 2023, 12:02:25 AM »

Kinetic weapons still dont work even when aiming at the circle, aswell as the autopilot or autofire not being able to use them either. Is there any way to disable that feature?
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robocat651

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #733 on: June 02, 2023, 12:38:10 AM »

Kinetic weapons still dont work even when aiming at the circle, aswell as the autopilot or autofire not being able to use them either. Is there any way to disable that feature?

I have no problems with autopilot using all weapons. Maybe post the list of mods you're using with this one?
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wooz

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Re: [0.96.a] Realistic Combat 1.24.3
« Reply #734 on: June 02, 2023, 07:07:58 AM »

Kinetic weapons still dont work even when aiming at the circle, aswell as the autopilot or autofire not being able to use them either. Is there any way to disable that feature?

I have no problems with autopilot using all weapons. Maybe post the list of mods you're using with this one?

I started a new game with just this mod since I was having the issue of some weapons not firing. Missles and Beams work fine but Kinetic weapons are still buggy. For example: my control group 3 has 3 vulcan cannons on the the right side of my ship and when I switch to that group only the first vulcan will fire for abougt .5 seconds after which none of them will fire anymore. I'll do some more testing to see if I can fix it but for right now, just after discovering this mod and seeing how it spices up combat to my liking, and let you know if I find a fix.

I only have this mod enabled, fresh save, and am having weapon firing issues such as the ones posted earlier in this thread.

Another thing is some beam damaging weapons such as the mining blaster work fine but the bigger one dosen't fire at all and burst shot beam weapons fire insanely fast. The explorer start, for example, which I have been using has the issue where it'll fire its bursts in rapid succession over and over again and max out your flux level allowing you to destroy a Buffalo in about 2 seconds due to the sheer firepower it's putting out. The Buffalo, when using the 'Run Simulation' is capable of firing its machine gun in its first slot in that rapid succession as well.
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